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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Apparently WM confirmed that Oliver's not going to tell Felicity.  She'll find out some other, likely horrible, way.

I'm kind of wondering if she's going to find out in a way that makes her think that he and Samantha are having an affair.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I'm kind of wondering if she's going to find out in a way that makes her think that he and Samantha are having an affair.

Yeah, that's what I said last night, and I agree.  I also think there's like a 5% chance he actually will have a relationship with Baby Mama (post-Felicity hardcore dumping his pathetic Ollie ass).

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Sunshine

Sunshine

So, if Oliver and Laurel (since she's not at the party) are on the outside of whatever, is that the shows way of saying you can mark Laurel off the grave list?


Yeah, that's what I said last night, and I agree.  I also think there's like a 5% chance he actually will have a relationship with Baby Mama (post-Felicity hardcore dumping his pathetic Ollie ass).

If the Oliver & Felicity break up is temporary my guess is that is when Oliver & Poppy hook up in flashbacks (Feb sweeps).

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Chaser

Chaser

Watch him start to tell her, big bad things interrupt, she is now (possibly) in a wheelchair, he decides he won't burden her, she finds out he is lying and visiting another woman and queue breakup. 

 

I just want to hold Felicity.

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jay741982

jay741982

DD tells Oliver that he's going to teach him a lesson by punishing the people he loves the most, so I think he's going to have to rescue them with Laurel's help (I'm assuming, because of the BTS pic that KC posted from that tunnel).

So why is Donna in that "Cage". Sure he likes Donna but she's not on the level on love he has for his little sis, his bro, and the lady he loves.

Watch him start to tell her, big bad things interrupt, she is now (possibly) in a wheelchair, he decides he won't burden her, she finds out he is lying and visiting another woman and queue breakup.

I just want to hold Felicity.

Me too! :(

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Sunshine

Sunshine

(edited)

So why is Donna in that "Cage". Sure he likes Donna but she's not on the level on love he has for his little sis, his bro, and the lady he loves.

Nor is Quentin.  They are all potential victims-only one bites it in the end.  I was thinking more elimination than casualty.  I believe they said they were possibly playing with who is safe in this episode.  It would remove Laurel from speculation.

Edited by Sunshine
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Nor is Quentin. They are all potential victims-only one bites it in the end. I was thinking more elimination than casualty. I believe they said they were possibly playing with who is safe in this episode. It would remove Laurel from speculation.

Wouldn't it be just the opposite? If everyone but Laurel is in danger in 409 doesn't that make her odds higher that she's in danger later?

Also, could you provide the quote about playing with who is safe in 409? I don't remember that one.

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Chaser

Chaser

The more Laurel avoids any death anvils the more I think it's her.

 

I know we get some type of grave thing in 4x09/4x10. I thought it was in reference to where it happens or something.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

The more Laurel avoids any death anvils the more I think it's her.

 

I know we get some type of grave thing in 4x09/4x10. I thought it was in reference to where it happens or something.

 

IIRC, WM said that we might get another grave flash in 4x09, and that in 4x10 we might find out where/what people were doing when the death happens. 

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Sunshine

Sunshine

Wouldn't it be just the opposite? If everyone but Laurel is in danger in 409 doesn't that make her odds higher that she's in danger later?

Also, could you provide the quote about playing with who is safe in 409? I don't remember that one.

Based on @apinknightmare I assume I remembered backwards.  I thought it was 409 they were playing with the flashforward hints.  Just an assumption I made.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

There will absolutely be an engagement because these hacks aren't going to be able to resist the breakup whereupon Felicity either a) throws the ring at Oliver, b) takes it off and leaves it meaningfully on a table as the camera zooms in on a close up as she walks away. We must then have Oliver picking up the ring and looking mournfully on. 

 

Complete lack or creativity and originality.

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looptab

looptab

"Not Felicity's Boat"

Same thought, damn :(

 

Honestly, I can't reconcile what seems to be happening in the promos with what we thought was happening before. Did the limo spec came up before or after SA started babbling about it at HVFF? Is he prone to straight up trolling, now?

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Sunshine

Sunshine

The more Laurel avoids any death anvils the more I think it's her.

 

I know we get some type of grave thing in 4x09/4x10. I thought it was in reference to where it happens or something.

DD has threatened her to Quentin several times.  Has Diggle had any anvils?

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jb0495

jb0495

Anyone else wondering if the name on the tombstone is his newly discovered son, William?

.

Yes, I am wondering the same thing. Of course it would be horrible to kill a child but it would explain Oliver's vengeance anger, Barry being the only one there. I'm also thinking that Samantha is the one who is in another flash forward. Guess we just have to wait and see!

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I don't think it'll be the kid.  I think he'd be a lot more devastated and guilty.

 

If they announce Baby Mama for more episodes I'm going up to 30% on them dating and/or a love triangle.  Yes, she's awful.  No, that won't stop these writers.


I don't want Felicity hurt, but I'm really looking forward to Oliver in pain.

I'm not going to watch 4.09, but I'm no longer upset about it.  I want to watch him suffer, and hey, she's not a real person, so it'll be an overall positive now.

 

REALLY looking forward to her dumping him.  That episode I'll watch.

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catrox14

catrox14

I'm sticking with my spec that it's either the Baby Mama, William or Roy in the grave. I think Oliver would be more upset if it was Laurel despite their differences. I think the level of grief Oliver displayed would suit those three characters.

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Password

Password

(edited)

After rewatching certain scenes from episode 8 I've mellowed somewhat. It's entirely unfair that Felicity and Oliver scenes still hit me in the feels after that ridiculous plot.

But, I'm waiting to see what happens in episode 9. I am very angry at Oliver but even more so at the writers. Oh and baby mama. Seriously she is the actual WORST.

Really I just want to see Felicity go nuclear on Oliver. Diggle too. I still cringe at that cuddle scene at the end. Too much show.

If Oliver and baby mama date or do ANYTHING, I'm out.

Edited by Password
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Went back and found a couple of quotes related to 409 and the grave hints.

Tuesday

The day’s first meeting is with Arrow showrunners Marc Guggenheim and Wendy Mericle, who present their plans for the show’s post-holiday return. But first, there’s the upcoming midseason finale, which Berlanti suspects “people are gonna be mad” about for how it leaves things. “You’ll definitely get a cliffhanger about who it could end up being in that grave from the [flash-forward scene in the] season premiere.” Following lunch with old pal and The CW prez Mark Pedowitz, the Arrow-Flash spinoff DC’s Legends of Tomorrow takes priority. “We’re going to be turning in the pilot in a couple of weeks, so I’m starting to work on the rough cuts,” Berlanti says.

Question: When will we learn who is in the grave from the Arrow season premiere? —Kyle

Ausiello: Though the producers are being purposefully vague about the timing of that reveal, here’s something to at least whet your whistle. Co-showrunner Wendy Mericle told Matt Mitovich, “There might be” additional flash-forwards “here and there… right around midseason,” that certainly will add to the “Who dies?” mystery. “We’re definitely toying with that,” the EP added, “and when and if we do decide to do that, it will reveal even more pertinent information about not who’s going to be in the grave but certainly where our characters are when that [death] happens.”

So it sounds like they're not eliminating characters from the deathpool in 409 or 410.

I actually wonder if they're going to do something similar to one of the Criminal Minds cliffhangers. The episode ended with a split screen of all but one character (Garcia) getting into a black SUV and then the final scene is of a mystery SUV blowing up, we have no idea who's SUV blew up and don't know if the character lived or died until the show came back the following season.

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TVHappy9463

TVHappy9463

As far as who is in the grave, I am leaning toward Samantha. 1. only Barry and Oliver at her grave, they are the only two that know about her, 2. Barry's anvils about the consequences of the time travel seemed really heavy in the last scene with him and Oliver when they were discussing William.  If they kill Samantha, the writers can send William off to live with his grandmother and only Oliver and Barry will know the secret extending hiding things from Felicity longer and preventing more "playtime" scenes with Oliver and William which completely killed the episode last night. 

Malcolm also had a big anvil last night with the whole,"if you get my daughter killed I will make you pay" him to Oliver. But I don't buy them killing off Thea.  

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

As far as who is in the grave, I am leaning toward Samantha. 1. only Barry and Oliver at her grave, they are the only two that know about her, 2. Barry's anvils about the consequences of the time travel seemed really heavy in the last scene with him and Oliver when they were discussing William.  If they kill Samantha, the writers can send William off to live with his grandmother and only Oliver and Barry will know the secret extending hiding things from Felicity longer and preventing more "playtime" scenes with Oliver and William which completely killed the episode last night. 

Malcolm also had a big anvil last night with the whole,"if you get my daughter killed I will make you pay" him to Oliver. But I don't buy them killing off Thea.  

Well, we have spoilers that the shit re his lies hits the fan in the middle of the season.  So at least Felicity also knows.  I'd definitely be fine with Baby Mama croaking and kid getting sent off, though.

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Belinea

Belinea

But what would happen if Baby Mama dies? Nobody would care. The only outcome would be Oliver's son being a permanent fixture on the show. I don't know if they'd want to go down that road where Oliver's family drama is about helping his kid overcome the death of his mother. That seems like a delicate storyline and I am not sure they'd know how to handle that kind of story. 

 

At this point, it well and truly could be Felicity and frankly I am not as upset about as I used to be because then I could actually stop watching. (I still don't want it to be either Digg or Felicity)

 

Could it be Donna Smoak? Probably not but just a thought. I'd definitely care about that. 

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catrox14

catrox14

 

But what would happen if Baby Mama dies? Nobody would care. The only outcome would be Oliver's son being a permanent fixture on the show. I don't know if they'd want to go down that road where Oliver's family drama is about helping his kid overcome the death of his mother. That seems like a delicate storyline and I am not sure they'd know how to handle that kind of story.

 

We don't know for sure but I'm assuming Baby Mama has a family of her own. It would be easy enough for Oliver, in the interest of keeping the child safe, to allow him to be raised by Baby Mama's family in another country....far far away.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

For the record, I now think there's a good chance the proposal is a trick or vision or dream.  Maybe of Oliver's, as he watches Felicity or whoever "die."


We don't know for sure but I'm assuming Baby Mama has a family of her own. It would be easy enough for Oliver, in the interest of keeping the child safe, to allow him to be raised by Baby Mama's family in another country....far far away.

Yes, please.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

(edited)

Please tell me the show will actually address the fact that they put two Jewish characters (Donna and Felicity) in a gas chamber.

 

I'm positive the response will be - DD is evil. He does bad things. I can also guarantee it didn't even cross their minds because these hacks are not sensitive to any thing. Ever. 

Edited by calliope1975
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

Please tell me the show will actually address the fact that they put two Jewish characters (Donna and Felicity) in a gas chamber.

Oh come on! Same show that forcibly married a gay woman to a straight man with the implied threat of rape (by daddy - I raped your mom - Al Ghul). They're going to ignore it and then get defensive if anyone dares to say it's insensitive.

Happy Hanukkah!

Edited by Morrigan2575
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

In one of the previews for next week's episode, you can see gas spreading behind Felicity (and the others locked in there with her)

I was coming here to say this.  They're gassing Jewish characters in a box.  During the holidays.  Every time you think you understand how totally shitty they are...

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I will be utterly disgusted if they put Donna and Felicity in a gas chamber, but should we maybe wait and see what's actually happening before we get upset? That could just be some smoke coming out of a grate for some weird-ass visual effect, and something else could happen that injures them. The room could fill with water...anything. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I will be utterly disgusted if they put Donna and Felicity in a gas chamber, but should we maybe wait and see what's actually happening before we get upset? That could just be some smoke coming out of a grate for some weird-ass visual effect, and something else could happen that injures them. The room could fill with water...anything. 

So far every single time I've gotten preemptively pissed it's been accurate.  In fact, every thing I've been preemptively pissed off about has turned out EVEN WORSE.  So yeah, I'm pretty sure they're going to gas Jewish characters in a box, during the holidays.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

At this point I wouldn't either, but we have absolutely no idea what's going on there, and we've been wrong about stuff based on clips, like...a lot.

I agree, I'm not really upset by it at this point. I don't know if it's an actual poison gas chamber, it's not just Felicity/Donna in there, we also saw Diggle and presumably Thea and maybe even Lance as well.

I'm mostly curious to see what the setup is? Maybe the limo thing isn't an accident maybe Felicity collapses because of whatever is in that chamber? I'm also morbidly curious to see if somehow everyone but Felicity escapes the gas somehow.

I'm a Felicity fan first so my interest is about what happens to her in 409 and where does it lead us.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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bijoux

bijoux

(edited)

"Not Felicity's Boat"

I don't get the reference. What am I missing?

It might be the writers evil masterplan to make us tolerate Laurel.

"You think Laurel is the worst? Here, meet Samantha!"

Well, I certainly think she's nowhere near as bad as Samantha. It would be the first time their tactic to get Laurel an in with me would have worked.

For the record, I now think there's a good chance the proposal is a trick or vision or dream. Maybe of Oliver's, as he watches Felicity or whoever "die."

.

Preferable to a real proposal while Oliver is lying to her by... Well, I can't even define how much. Edited by bijoux
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statsgirl

statsgirl

If they thought people were upset at a lesbian being forced to marry a man, they ain't seen nothing as to what would happen if they gassed two Jewish characters, especially if one of them is Felicity.  If MG doesn't know, I hope at least Beth Schwatz does.

 

Nor is Quentin.  They are all potential victims-only one bites it in the end.  I was thinking more elimination than casualty.  I believe they said they were possibly playing with who is safe in this episode.  It would remove Laurel from speculation.

I think it's far too soon for it to be the person in the grave so everyone is safe.  The death will happen during February sweeps.

 

Anyone else wondering if the name on the tombstone is his newly discovered son, William?

After last night's episode, I bet a lot of people are hoping it.

 

If it's Samantha in the grave, I can't see Oliver sending his son way permanently to be raised by his mother's relatives, and I can't see Felicity or Barry agreeing to it.  Part of the reason he wanted to get to know him is because Thea is his only family left (after Felicity dumps his ass), so if it is Sam, we're stuck with William.

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