Spoiler Discussion Thread

[bijoux]

Is that someone who normally posts about Arrow? Maybe it's just a person who really dislikes Oliver and Felicity.

Well, you go, Oliver, going straight to Lance and calling him for the hypocricy. Also, does anyone have any idea when he and Constantine could have crossed paths, pre-island or during year four or five of being away from Starling?

[tv echo]

Incidentally, the new TV Guide (that I just referenced in the Spoilers thread) has a big article on Supergirl - and the relationship between Kara and her adoptive sister Alex Danvers is giving me a Sara and Laurel vibe:

Much of Supergirl's heart comes from the bond between Kara and her adoptive sis (a new, non-DC character), which the Grey's Anatomy alum feels "is honest" in its portrayal of often-fraught family ties. "I think Alex had this innate jealousy, a feeling that whatever she was doing, she had to be better at it."

Just hope that Kara and Alex don't end up romancing the same guy.  Sorry, slightly off-topic.

Edited October 22, 2015 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

Is that someone who normally posts about Arrow? Maybe it's just a person who really dislikes Oliver and Felicity.

 

He's an autograph hound in Vancouver. Sometimes he doubles as a pap as well, but he ~swears~ he isn't one. He hates EBR, supposedly because she started refusing to sign for him.

[kismet]

So is Constantine going to help Thea cure her bloodlust when he comes to restore Sara's soul? Otherwise, I wouldn't want to be Thea's new love interest, Alex.

I think its gonna be a two for one deal with Constantine.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, they've brought everyone back, shown that the Pit is a terrible idea and did away with it. No reason for Thea to continue struggling with the effects.

Edited October 22, 2015 by apinknightmare

[InsertWordHere]

Maybe Oliver proposes at another point but they announce the engagement at the rally.

[looptab]

I hope too it's not a public proposal. Just no, please. Also, can't wait for Oliver/Quentin confrontation. GO OLIVER!

[apinknightmare]

Maybe Oliver proposes at another point but they announce the engagement at the rally.

If there's an engagement, I hope that it's just a public announcement. If he asks her in public, it would seem like campaigning. It's helpful that we know he was planning on doing it in Ivy Town, but still.

Edited October 22, 2015 by apinknightmare

[kismet]

"If it were my daughter, I'd put her down." They're probably going to give him a daughter, aren't they?

Is that Ray's salmon ladder?

Im guessing FB LI as daughter if they go there. But I definitely see DD having a family, or perhaps he killed his wife & child. From NM interview it seemed like DD had a brief moment of normalcy & not pure evil.

Does it matter about who's ladder he's using? :) Im just glad its back maybe he jas one in rhe lair and uses RPs old ladder when he goes to visit her. Although it did look like he was in the lair, so it might just be a new ladder or Sally got work done after SCPD destroyed her home. Realistically they probably just moved RPs ladder down to the lair.

[Guest]

409 is still a bit early for an engagement, and I especially don't want a public proposal. I'm hoping that canadagraphs guy is just being a troll for clicks because when I first read it I just thought Oliver might have been made Mayor or something and he simply kisses Felicity in celebration. I'd prefer that at this stage.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

I'd prefer that too, and not that I expect this show to stick to its own canon, but the mayoral race ended in May previously, so IDK.

[AyChihuahua]

It could be a special election, with different start/end dates.  That's how it would happen IRL, anyway.

 

Also, re the six-month flash forward, it does not HAVE to be real time.  It's not unprecedented for the show not to follow real time, see Oliver's "three weeks" being brainwashed, like one IRL.  I think it probably will be real time, but we don't know that for sure.

 

Is it at all possible that KC has been worse so far this season bc she's mad that she's being let go?  Probably not, right?  

[Password]

My head is spinning from those promos. Everything is extremely exciting and I can't wait.

*grabby hands*

[HighwayFlower]

Is it at all possible that KC has been worse so far this season bc she's mad that she's being let go? Probably not, right?

Pretty please? She does seem even more stiff then usual. Her only emotion was to look down, then up. But nothing else moved.

[Guest]

I'd prefer that too, and not that I expect this show to stick to its own canon, but the mayoral race ended in May previously, so IDK.

 

Oh yeah. I didn't even think of that. But it's definitely something happening with his candidacy because earlier in the day they were filming things to do with 'Queen for Mayor' so I just took a leap of logic! 

 

I'd just rather anything than a public proposal. I want it to be just the two of them and intimate and I need it to be emotional. Unless he's already proposed by this point and he just announces it publicly? But that's still too early, IMO. I would prefer an end of season proposal.

[dtissagirl]

Wasn't this kiss during a political rally? It could be that the crowd of extras cheered just because when people kiss at political rallies, cheering ensues. Kissing is cheer-worthy on itself.

 

I don't know if they'll timejump during the hiatus, but if 409 is their Chrismukkah episode [there's minor evidence of that -- Guggie mentioned a holiday episode at SDCC; Charlotte Ross posted a pic yesterday with pine trees decorated with lights], then they haven't time jumped yet. And the Oliver for Mayor posters all say 2016, so I'm guessing the election storyline isn't over at least until 410.

Edited October 22, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Velocity23]

I think we might got some scoop today journalist are on set today. Seems no interviews with KC and Barrowman because they arent on set.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Velocity23

[Guest]

Wasn't this kiss during a political rally? It could be that the crowd of extras cheered just because when people kiss at political rallies, cheering ensues. Kissing is cheer-worthy on itself.

 

That was my immediate thought. It could also be that it's the first time Oliver talks about or thanks Felicity specifically and they kiss and everyone is all "Aw" and cheers? 

[Velocity23]

First look at John Constantine on #Arrow - TV Guide, October 26, 2015.

https://twitter.com/EmilyBettSource/status/657241872121905152

[Primal Slayer]

Oh wow getting rid of Connor Hawkes connection to Oliver is stupid to me. But we'll see how it goes.

[HighwayFlower]

Oh wow getting rid of Connor Hawkes connection to Oliver is stupid to me. But we'll see how it goes.

Doesn't really bother me, only because I really don't want the whole kid thing on Arrow. Im still dreading the storyline with the one we know about.

[Guest]

Speaking as someone who doesn't read the comics, is the Connor Hawke connection really a big deal? Honest question. I mean, I think it's crazy that they introduced a kid on the show that's not even the one in the comics but I guess I can accept that because they're clearly not following the comics exactly. Cool. Whatever. I hate the kid storyline no matter who it is. But I don't get what the big deal is with Connor. Surely people should be pleased he's not being whitewashed. 

Edited October 22, 2015 by Guest

[wonderwall]

.......Why does it matter whether the kid is Connor Hawke or not? 

[apinknightmare]

I don't see why it matters on Arrow, since Oliver isn't old enough to have a kid who is old enough to do anything other than be a kid. Even if his child was Connor Hawke, he's under 10. What would be the point?

Edited October 22, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Primal Slayer]

They are introducing him on LoT which deals with time travel so it would be easy to have him come from the future and bypass the kid storyline. But taking his son and severing that link is just not good to me.

I guess I can be happy they aren't whitewashing the character. Gotta take what i can get with this universe.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[lemotomato]

They're already giving Oliver a surprise kid on the show. Why would they give him two surprise kids, time traveled or not?

[apinknightmare]

They are introducing him on LoT which deals with time travel so it would be easy to have him come from the future and bypass the kid storyline. But taking his son and severing that link is just not good to me.

Oooh, yeah. They could have done that! Seems pointless to introduce a kid who isn't canon, so I'm not sure why they did that anyway. Bleh.

They're already giving Oliver a surprise kid on the show. Why would they give him two surprise kids, time traveled or not?

I think PrimalSlayer meant that Connor would've been Oliver's only kid-but we wouldn't have to deal with him as a kid on the show, just as a grown-up from the future. Unless I'm misunderstanding.

[Primal Slayer]

They're already giving Oliver a surprise kid on the show. Why would they give him two surprise kids, time traveled or not?

If they weren't afraid of somply recasting the mother they could just merge them.

Though Oliver has slept with plenty of women so him having more then 1 child wouldn't be the most unbelievable thing this show has done.

[lemotomato]

Oooh, yeah. They could have done that! Seems pointless to introduce a kid who isn't canon, so I'm not sure why they did that anyway. Bleh.

I think PrimalSlayer meant that Connor would've been Oliver's only kid-but we wouldn't have to deal with him as a kid on the show, just as a grown-up from the future. Unless I'm misunderstanding.

Maybe they intended to make the kid Connor, but chickened out because of the backlash over how the character and his mom--presumably Sandra-- were whitewashed? I remember the comics readers were angry about it.

[Starfish35]

Seems pointless to introduce a kid who isn't canon, so I'm not sure why they did that anyway. Bleh.

I am almost certain that the kid on the show WAS going to be Connor. But then they realized they screwed up by whitewashing Sandra. But since her name had never been said on the show, they had an out. So now she isn't Sandra and the kid isn't Connor.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Starfish35

[Happy Harpy]

I think its gonna be a two for one deal with Constantine.

If I can't get Roy back, I wouldn't mind Constantine as a LI for Thea.

Not that I think that Thea needs a love interest, she needs her father in every way that counts who is still alive aka Walter and better roommates (Sin please be back).

But since they plan one, well, this one would certainly be all snark and no saccharine.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[Velocity23]

If i got the right info Connor isnt related to Oliver Queen in the new 52.

[apinknightmare]

I am almost certain that the kid on the show WAS going to be Connor. But then they realized they screwed up by whitewashing Sandra. But since her name had never been said on the show, they had an out. So now she isn't Sandra and the kid isn't Connor.

Oh, I know, I just think it's stupid not to kill that storyline. Not many people care about the kid if it isn't canon (and a lot didn't care when he could've been Connor), so why not just leave that out there as an unresolved thing, or indicate that she actually did have a miscarriage? They could've tied that up fairly easily-going with it now is stupid.

[lemotomato]

If they weren't afraid of somply recasting the mother they could just merge them.

Though Oliver has slept with plenty of women so him having more then 1 child wouldn't be the most unbelievable thing this show has done.

My personal preference is for fewer kids on the show, not more. Especially kids old enough to be given lines, instead of just there to look adorable like baby Sara.

[Primal Slayer]

I agree but just stating easy ways around it.

[Morrigan2575]

If i got the right info Connor isnt related to Oliver Queen in the new 52.

Is he even in the new 52?  Last time I was reading GA and BoP, there was no Connor Hawke but they slowly started to re-introduce characters in different forms.  Stephanie Brown was being brought back as Spoiler and Helena Bertinelli showed up as an Agent of Spyrl in the new Dick Greyson series.

[Primal Slayer]

Yeah he isn't in The New52 yet.

[Velocity23]

All i got is this from wiki:

 

However, a revised interpretation of Connor Hawke appears in the series Earth 2, which is set in an alternative universe within the DC Comics Multiverse. In Earth 2 Annual #1, an archer named Red Arrow debuts and is recruited to join the World Army; he is believed to be identified by the name Roy McQueen. In Earth 2 #20, it is revealed that his name is Connor Hawke. This version of Connor is seemingly killed by monsters unleashed by the invading forces of the planet Apokolips. The series The New 52: Futures End shows a successor Earth 2 Red Arrow to be Oliver Queen.

[dtissagirl]

Speaking as someone who doesn't read the comics, is the Connor Hawke connection really a big deal? Honest question. I mean, I think it's crazy that they introduced a kid on the show that's not even the one in the comics but I guess I can accept that because they're clearly not following the comics exactly. Cool. Whatever. I hate the kid storyline no matter who it is. But I don't get what the big deal is with Connor. Surely people should be pleased he's not being whitewashed.

 

~~*IN THE COMICS*~~ it is a big deal that he's Oliver's son, yes. Connor even ends up the Green Arrow when Oliver "dies" at some point. But otoh, Connor is not a kid. He's like, 18? I think? When Oliver first meets him.

 

If the LoT team meet this Connor by time traveling to the future, well, they could have easily made this Connor Oliver's kid. I find the fact that they chose not to intriguing. Is it because of surprise kid and Baby Mama? Or did DC tell them not to?

Edited October 22, 2015 by dtissagirl

[statsgirl]

On the promo, I am so glad that Oliver finally gets to call Quentin on his "holier than thou" attitude for the past 3 years.

 

I'm pretty happy that the Connor Hawke being Oliver's kid speculation is put to rest.

 

 

Also, why is there campaigning necessary in Star City? Just organize a vote, thank the sucker who put his neck on the line and tell him to update his will. I mean, I'm happy about Oliver getting a story line, don't get me wrong, it's just odd.

Jessica Danforth said that there would need to be an election even though she was the only candidate so Oliver's got to do something while he waits for that. And the Queen name in Starling City is probably still suffering from Robert closing the factories, Moira involved in the Undertaking and Oliver tanking the company.

[Guest]

There could have been a way around the whitewashing. The woman we assume is the Baby Mama could have actually had a miscarriage and Oliver could have met Sandra Hawke in flashbacks during season 5 or something and got her pregnant. That way the time-travelling Connor Hawke would still be biracial and Oliver's son. It's really not that hard. 

Edited October 22, 2015 by Guest

[lemotomato]

There could have been a way around the whitewashing. The woman we assume is the Baby Mama could have actually had a miscarriage and Oliver could have met Sandra Hawke in flashbacks during season 5 or something and got her pregnant. That way the time-travelling Connor Hawke would still be biracial and Oliver's son. It's really not that hard.

Except that the Arrow writers wanted to use the secret kid plot point this season and the LoT writers wanted Connor Hawke on their show. So both have to exist. It would've taken too much time for the Arrow writers to dump the established baby momma and introduce/cast a new one.

As someone who doesn't read the comics, I prefer that LoT Connor is not related to Oliver rather than he has two kids he didn't know about.

Edited October 22, 2015 by lemotomato

[WaitandHope]

Firstly, I think those previews from Australia and NZ look AWESOME!  Probably giving too much away, but still awesome.   The Australia one made it actually look like DD may be Felicity's father.  For whatever reason, it seemed to be cut that way.  And I don't think the American trailer necessarily precludes that.  She is about to look down at the photo on the computer screen when Oliver tells her that's DD with Lance. 

 

I don't really think DD is her father, but I don't think there's anything in the promos that preclude it -- and one of them even seems to hint at it. 

 

It would make so little sense (in the midst of his extra-long life as a super villain, he lived several years with a cocktail waitress in Vegas and had a kid), but it could be the reason we are seeing Mama Smoak more?   Plus, does it really make any less sense than a villain who throws playing cards as weapons, a magic hot tub that raises people from the dead, a 25-year old CEO who was willed the company by testate, and that no one in Star City really knows OQ is the Green Arrow?  And that was just last night...

 

It would also allow Mama Smoak and Quentin to start falling in love with each other -- all before DD tragically kills him just before spring sweeps. 

 

(BTW, I still think the death is Lance.  I don't think it could be Laurel unless two actors are leaving the show - because I don't think PB could be on the show anymore if that happened.   We'd then have to watch a character whose 1 daughter is dead and other daughter is undead and lost in time.  This show is tragic -- but that sort of pain is reserved for Oliver.)

[Guest]

Except that the Arrow writers wanted to use the secret kid plot point this season and the LoT writers wanted Connor Hawke on their show. So both have to exist. It would've taken too much time for the Arrow writers to dump the established baby momma and introduce/cast a new one.

As someone who doesn't read the comics, I prefer that LoT Connor is not related to Oliver rather than he has two kids he didn't know about.

 

I hate all the secret kid storyline so I'd rather they'd gotten rid of it anyway. But I guess they could have had Oliver find out about Moira paying off the girl and he goes to find out if he does have a child and discovers he doesn't. Maybe not what they had planned but it could open up discussion about what he wants in his personal life and we know O/F haven't discussed the prospect of kids yet. Eh. I know this doesn't happen because we've seen spoiler pics of Baby Mama and son but I just think there could have been a way around it if they desperately wanted biracial Connor and Oliver to be related.

 

But as I've never read the comics and I don't really care for the kid storyline, I really have no skin in the game tbh! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited October 22, 2015 by Guest

[blixie]

 

It would make so little sense

 

I don't think this is a particularly strong argument for what this show will or will not do with it's narrative.  Heh.

Edited October 22, 2015 by blixie

[BkWurm1]

Incidentally, the new TV Guide (that I just referenced in the Spoilers thread) has a big article on Supergirl - and the relationship between Kara and her adoptive sister Alex Danvers is giving me a Sara and Laurel vibe:

Just hope that Kara and Alex don't end up romancing the same guy.  Sorry, slightly off-topic.

 

Given the people behind the creation of both shows it's not surprising.  Just from the clips and previews I already am positive that they actually are taking the time to believably build of the relationship between the sisters. It's too late to do that with Sara and Laurel.  Sara even when she stops being cra is still going to be suffering from not feeling connected to anything so hard to bond with sis at that point. 

Yeah, they've brought everyone back, shown that the Pit is a terrible idea and did away with it. No reason for Thea to continue struggling with the effects.

But Thea was in the tub before it was spoiled so those waters that seeped into her essence would not need to have been affected by the recent destruction of the pit. 

 

409 is still a bit early for an engagement, and I especially don't want a public proposal. I'm hoping that canadagraphs guy is just being a troll for clicks because when I first read it I just thought Oliver might have been made Mayor or something and he simply kisses Felicity in celebration. I'd prefer that at this stage.

Given that the even we were seeing was a Queen for Mayor rally with people picking up garbage at a park, I doubt that he's won yet. 

 

I could see Oliver giving into to a moment between them at a public event and proposing without thinking about his audience.  It does become public the moment a a guy drops to his knees or a ring comes out, but the words and exchange before hand could still remain just between them. 

 

I think the only time a public proposal is a problem is if there is ANY uncertainty of the answer.  So often theses days the proposal takes place after they've already planned out their future together and is that little formality so why not make it a spectacle?

 

Still, not really big on an engagement so quickly if only because in TV land, the quicker it comes, the quicker it goes away (because no one is allowed to be happy without at least one break up / tragic misunderstanding / kidnapping / presumed dead period.) 

[apinknightmare]

But Thea was in the tub before it was spoiled so those waters that seeped into her essence would not need to have been affected by the recent destruction of the pit.

That wasn't my point-it's that the Pit storyline is basically over. It existed, it was used, we've seen the effects, and if Constantine is there to fix Sara, why wouldn't he fix Thea, too? Seems to me that her reaction was there to bring Malcolm back into the picture and to serve as a way to bring Laurel up to speed on the Pit so she could resurrect Sara. There's no reason for Thea to keep suffering.

[Morrigan2575]

But why waste a good/interesting storyline just to wrap it up in 5 episodes? Yes, it sucks that Thea is suffering the effects but it's a good story. There is some really good potential for Thea, Thea/Oliver and even Thea/Malcolm.

I'd prefer to see it explored especially since there is no magical fix for Sara. Yes, Constantine will show up and stop the super crazy but she's still going to have emotional issues and trauma.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

But why waste a good/interesting storyline just to wrap it up in 5 episodes? Yes, it sucks that Thea is suffering the effects but it's a good story. There is some really good potential for Thea, Thea/Oliver and even Thea/Malcolm.

I didn't say that's what I wanted to see, that's just what I think will happen. These people never let anything breathe, so I don't think they'll have her continuing to struggle with wanting to kill, especially since-as Malcolm said last night-she can't kill the person who hurt her, so the bloodlust won't ever stop. But who knows, maybe they'll keep up with it throughout the season.

[HighwayFlower]

I think they wanted to rush through it, since they had to do it for Sara to be on LOT, and it was probably not part of their original vision for the season.

It's a shame, becaus there is so much potential in it, but it seems they just want to get it over with so they can focus on character they get to keep.

It shooting themselves in the foot though, because it making their own show look bad.