Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Soulfire]

I feel emotionally manipulated.

 

Clever game of the show, releasing those photos to reel people back in. But damn, I'm so starved for any glimpse of happy on this show I don't even care. GIVE ME ALL THE SMILES AND HEART EYES. We deserve it after this shitty season.

[Lady Calypso]

I'm strangely content with them being all smiley in those pictures. Well, we haven't seen Diggle and spoilers indicate that he apparently will be all angsty and angry until next season, so I wonder how he'll be in the finale.

[Carrie Ann]

This is also cracking me up:

 

 

"Oh! Didn't see you there. Just catching up on Instagram after Nanda Parbat."

[tv echo]

They certainly released those spoiler pics quickly.

 

Edited May 7, 2015 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Someone please message SA to put up the picture of Barry and Malcolm for Meme Monday. I need it.

[Starfish35]

I hope we see Tatsu again in present day and that she doesn't just get left in Ra's dungeon.

[apinknightmare]

Oooh, so Malcolm switched out the vials. 

 

And Ra's isn't just using the virus he's using FOUR INSTRUMENTS OF DEATH

 

It's so campy, I love it.

Edited May 7, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Velocity23]

WTF is wrong with Malcolm?

 

And at least a pic of Dig with Felicity and Oliver

[tarotx]

Melcolm is so EVIL that he likes to do good just to fuck with people. I can't help but love JB.

And Ra's so Kevin Costner's Robin Hood sheriff of Nottingham campy evil. Pouty pouty you were the prophecy. Dang I wish Alan Rickman could have been playing him...

Edited May 7, 2015 by tarotx

[tv echo]

I like this pic - kinda highlights how they could've used Barry's help earlier...

 

[Password]

I like this pic - kinda highlights how they could've used Barry's help earlier...

Ex-act-ly.

[AyChihuahua]

It really does lampshade how this whole thing could have been avoided by just calling Barry in the first place.  He's about to face down Reverse Flash and he took out Gorilla Grodd, for goodness' sake.  This version of Ra's would have been trussed up like a chicken in precisely 0.125 seconds. 

[blixie]

 

Nice to see you back, Heart Eyes Oliver Queen. How we missed you.

 

Sigh, yes, my babies! So happy to see him out of the LoA gear, and lookin' happy, although that one picture with Nyssa is a little weird. 

 

SO I'm still super confused about the 3X22 to 1X22 timeline, I mean I guess Ras bought that Oliver is all the way IN, but still doesn't he have schedule: baby making and city destroying? So Oliver is just like, I gotta do a thing, BRB!

[tessaray]

I'm probably the only one - now that the marriage is a done deal - who wants to hear Nyssa announce herself as "wife of the Demon" at least once? Maybe she can pop in S4 from time to time and say it sarcastically? 

 

While Ra's was monologue-ing about Nyssa's mother, I found myself wondering - do we know if she is dead?  Do we expect her to show up in Russia in S4? Which would be fine by me, because more KL is always a good thing but if the marriage was just a plot point to create a bridge to S4, then it was pretty lame. 

[Guest]

I fully expect Diggle and Felicity to forgive Oliver.  It will all be explained away on the show as it has been here, Oliver couldn't do anything else, Oliver was caught unaware and did the best he could to protect them, Oliver couldn't tell Felicity because she can't lie, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.  There are a million reasons if you want to believe.

 

What is finished for me is Olicity.  Felicity is a fool if she ever trusts Oliver completely again because this entire season he has been showing her that he doesn't trust her either with his plans or to make decisions for herself.  And without trust there is no true relationship. 

 

Right now, I can't stand to see the picture of Felicity smiling at Oliver in next week's episode.  That is a relationship I've lost all respect for.

 

Well, that's your prerogative. Each to their own. I'm sorry Olicity is over for you but I personally don't see what's so bad about Felicity trusting Oliver and I certainly don't think it makes her a fool. If she didn't trust him until the very end, it wouldn't be the relationship I know and love. In the episode, Oliver specifically asked her to trust him and I believe that even covers the end when he left them all in the cell because he had a contingency plan with Barry in place. 

[AyChihuahua]

Okay, so the episode ended with TA "dead" and the wedding concluding.  Now, how does Oliver end up in CC helping Barry?  We know Barry comes to NP, and it seems that only a few hench-assassins are around.  It can't be too long, or some hench-assassin would figure out they're dead.  So probably the main bad guys + Oliver and Nyssa and a contingent of hench-assassins head to SC shortly after this ep.  Maybe they land nearby to firm up their SC-destruction plans?  Barry can't carry each of TA back individually, do they get back on Palmer's plane?  Does Ra's have a spare plane for himself (probably, based on spoiler pics).  Is it possible Ra's and Eobard are colluding, and Ra's actually sends Oliver to help Eobard, not Barry?  Wasn't there a pic of Eobard holding something that looked like the virus?  Does Oliver excuse himself for a long bathroom break (long flight and all) and Barry grabs him and just brings him back afterwards?

 

Also, I deserve credit for saying a long time ago that Barry should help Oliver in the finale since Oliver helped Barry in his big battle.  I prophesied much better than Ra's prophet.   

 

"In the episode, Oliver specifically asked her to trust him and I believe that even covers the end when he left them all in the cell because he had a contingency plan with Barry in place."

 

Then why the death convo?  All they had to do was leave that out and make it ambiguous re whether Digg/Felicity thought they were actively dying.  If she trusted him, that convo would not have happened.   

Edited May 7, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[looptab]

A little behind on this thread but I'm loving the heart eyes pictures and Malcolm in the promo is such a little bitch. I love it, ahah. I don't even know how or why, give me that episode and let's get this over with. 

[catahoulamama]

Clever game of the show, releasing those photos to reel people back in. But damn, I'm so starved for any glimpse of happy on this show I don't even care. GIVE ME ALL THE SMILES AND HEART EYES. We deserve it after this shitty season.

But, seriously, WTH was the point of it all - all the darkness, the depressing angst, emotional and physical torture - if they have to dole out little bits of happiness and goodness as bribes to keep people in this story?  Was somebody just in a massive funk and needed an outlet for their pain and displeasure? At the end of the season, what did it really accomplish? How did it move the story forward all that much? We got to see Oliver in Hong Kong? Cool. Just feels like a lost and pointless season to me, aside from giving Ray a spinoff.

[catahoulamama]

Clever game of the show, releasing those photos to reel people back in. But damn, I'm so starved for any glimpse of happy on this show I don't even care. GIVE ME ALL THE SMILES AND HEART EYES. We deserve it after this shitty season.

But, seriously, WTH was the point of it all - all the darkness, the depressing angst, emotional and physical torture - if they have to dole out little bits of happiness and goodness as bribes to keep people in this story?  Was somebody just in a massive funk and needed an outlet for their pain and displeasure? At the end of the season, what did it really accomplish? How did it move the story forward all that much? We got to see Oliver in Hong Kong? Cool. Just feels like a lost and pointless season to me, aside from giving Ray a spinoff.

[wingster55]

Ok..so clearly in the three weeks Oliver was in NP/away from Starling..he found the time to pop over to help Barry. Which is odd but the only way the timeline works.

 

Also Barry will have scenes with everyone on Arrow now...except Thea

[calliope1975]

Which is I suspect what we're going to see is essentially a split on trust lines. 

 

So a...Civil War, shall we say? Sorry, I'll stop.

 

I'm glad they released those pics. It gives me a reason to finish this dreadful season. 

 

Oliver's always had his own personal car on the Dean Winchester ManPain Self-Hate Train. I only lasted 9 years with Dean; I won't last that long with Oliver. I just want Oliver to grow a bit more. He's been making tiny, tiny strides, but I need some leaps and bounds. Hopefully, S4 will show a more confident, happier OQ. 

[AyChihuahua]

I quit watching SPN years ago, but Dean's one of my all-time favorite characters.  I feel like his self-loathing was deeper, but he was more fun on the surface, which made him more watchable.  Put Dean at a strip club with a beer and a good burger and he's quite happy in that moment.  Oliver's basically never even momentarily happy.  It's tedious.

[Lady Calypso]

Well, with this new trailer, at least it's confirmation that Malcolm did know about the fake virus plan, so I guess it's semi-confirmed that he and Oliver planned to have him 'betray' Oliver to Ra's and have Oliver solidify his trust to Ra's. 

[nksarmi]

Alright it is almost laughable that they did their big "Gotcha" moment that has in some people's mind ruined the Team Arrow dynamic and done all this talk about loads of blood on Oliver's hands, is he redeemable and can he still be a hero crap (because if he isn't, do we still have a show?), and who is going to survive shocker quotes only to reveal in the "Next week on Arrow" that they all lived and then the next day release a preview that shows they all lived.

 

If the CW is in charge of the promos and the EPs have no control over it - I don't think the CW is as on board with the doom and gloom and angst-filled writing that MG has been pushing this season.  I hope they have gotten the message to dial it back a bit for next season.

 

I really don't mind Diggle being mad and not trusting Oliver for awhile because I expect that to resolve itself in the HIVE plotline next season.  I do however have serious issues with heroMalcolm!  Mind raping Thea and the death of Sara is still bugging the hell out of me not to mention the freaking Undertaking.  Are they really just going to let this guy "atone" for his sins with his only punishment being what torture Ra's put him through in NP?  Am I really supposed to believe he is a good guy now?

[apinknightmare]

Not sure if they're actually trying to redeem him or if we're going to find out at the end of the finale that he's working with Damien Darhk. 

[nksarmi]

Not sure if they're actually trying to redeem him or if we're going to find out at the end of the finale that he's working with Damien Darhk. 

I can only hope because Malcolm only works for me as a villain.

[calliope1975]

Did MG say they were going to be introducing DD in the finale, or just hint at that story line? Or, none of the above? 

 

I haven't seen any casting calls yet so maybe it's just the mentions of DD that is the set up.

 

I would be fine with it being revealed that MM is working with/for DD. There has to be some reason to keep him around next year.

 

Are we done with deaths this year, except for Ra's which I'm assuming happens in the next ep. Thrown out of a plane, perhaps. (Dude will probably have a parachute hidden under all those robes.)

 

Unrelated but relevant: I adore Dean Winchester. He's one of my favorite characters, but I had to quit after watching that poor boy beat himself down year after year. My fervent wish is that when that series ends, he's happy and at peace. 

[dtissagirl]

Well, with this new trailer, at least it's confirmation that Malcolm did know about the fake virus plan, so I guess it's semi-confirmed that he and Oliver planned to have him 'betray' Oliver to Ra's and have Oliver solidify his trust to Ra's. 

 

Yay, I was right! *gloats*

 

Sorry.

 

Although I still need Malcolm to betray Oliver for real just so everyone can post their CURSE YOUR SUDDEN BUT INEVITABLE BETRAYAL quote at the same time in the finale episode thread.

[Jessie2009]

 

I haven't seen any casting calls yet so maybe it's just the mentions of DD that is the set up.

I thought thats how we found out they were introducing him because one of the entertainment sites said they put out a casting call for his character? Does anyone have a link to where it was first reported he was going to be showing up. I could have sworn I remember hearing he was showing up in the finale. Nvmd, I found it.

 

 

 

Question: Anything cool coming up on Arrow? —Julie

Ausiello: The show’s Season 3 finale will introduce a major, formidable, fierce new foe for Oliver, and his reign of terror will continue well into Season 4. The mysterious character is being referred to internally as “Damian Dark,” which got Matt Mitovich and I (but mostly MM) pulling up and skimming the Wiki page of one Damian Wayne. Get it? Damian Wayne. Son of the Dark Knight. They’d probably have to tweak the Bruce Wayne connection, but it’s a plausible theory, no? UPDATE: Readers better-schooled than Matt Mitovich and I (but mostly MM) notes that Damien Darhk is a H.I.V.E. operative per DC lore, and thus is more likely to be introduced.

According to this he's showing up in the finale. Maybe they are just keeping the casting quiet?

Edited May 7, 2015 by Jessie2009

[Scribbles]

Malcolm: "I believe the words you are looking for are thank and you"  Priceless.  Even our psychopath daddy dude needs affirmations once in a while.

[DrSpaceman10]

I'm in the minority on this, but I consider Nyssa/Oliver to be actually married. It's not what most people would consider a real marriage and I don't see how it could be legally binding (as least as far as Starling City is concerned), but to me it still counts.

 

I do think that Oliver/Felicity are going to end the season together in that porsche, but I'm just not interested in watching it anymore. 

[apinknightmare]

I'm in the minority on this, but I consider Nyssa/Oliver to be actually married. It's not what most people would consider a real marriage and I don't see how it could be legally binding (as least as far as Starling City is concerned), but to me it still counts.

 

Even though they were both forced into it? Ra's told Nyssa he was going to make her suffer the pain of a thousand deaths if she didn't do it, I mean...jeez.

[wonderwall]

I think it all depends on how you define a marriage. 

 

Some think that a marriage is just legally binding two people to one another, a piece of paper. Some think that marriage is two people who love each other and want to prove that love by getting married. Some think that marriage is a promise two people make to one another, a promise for the future/other things...

 

But I can't for the life of me put Oliver/Nyssa into any of these categories because:

 

A)Nyssa would sooner die than stay married to Oliver

B)They love different people

C)This marriage was completely forced

D)It's probably not legally binding because they didn't sign any marriage certificate

E)They never consummated their marriage

F)Oliver was doing this as a ruse to keep Ra's off his case

G)There is no promise made to one another, there is no future for this couple

 

I see this union more like a farce than a marriage tbqh. Marriages aren't supposed to have expiration dates like this one does. 

[AyChihuahua]

It's not legally binding outside NP because the League of Assassins is not a sovereign nation.  Among many other reasons. 

 

Totally agree with your second paragraph, though.  I think it would be healthier for everyone if he was in the Porsche by himself, and everyone went their mostly separate ways to do some soul-searching.

Edited May 7, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Guest]

This thread is now the definition of a cat chasing its own tail. We're going in circles. 

[DrSpaceman10]

I don't know what kind of an expiration date this marriage has. Based on what MG has said about it, I don't see it being dissolved (does the LOA even have divorce?) in the finale. I think it's probably something that will go on indefinitely, especially since the reaction to it hasn't been that negative. 

 

Even though they were both forced into it? Ra's told Nyssa he was going to make her suffer the pain of a thousand deaths if she didn't do it, I mean...jeez.

 

It's just my opinion, since they went through with the ceremony and as far as I know the show considers them to be married, so I do too. I feel like Nyssa was more forced into it than Oliver was. People marry for reasons other than love and Oliver married Nyssa to take down Ra's, and unlike Nyssa at least Oliver was consenting (if not happy about it).

 

The fact remains that the writers shouldn't have gone through with the wedding in the first place as it is both stupid and offensive, but here we are. 

This thread is now the definition of a cat chasing its own tail. We're going in circles. 

 

On the bright side there are only 6 more days until the end of the season :)

[TVHappy9463]

Malcolm's arc reminds me a lot of Spike's on Buffy.  He was the BB, then he turns on Angel and Drusilla, redeeming himself and by the end of the series he became Buffy's most trusted ally, even though everyone else distrusted him right to the very end.  

I think we will always be suspicious of Mal, but we must trust Oliver just as we trusted Buffy, Mal is redeemed and therefore JB can continue to chew scenery and be a "character".  Love him. 

The one minute promo was interesting as were the pics.  But as any good magician will tell you, what I show you isn't the trick, it's what I don't show you.  All those pics and clip combined are maybe 5 minutes of the episode, that gives Team Arrow 40 minutes of the real story. My guess is getting them out of NB, and the showdown with Raj is over pretty quick, and the season 4 set up, share your feelings stuff is the meat.  Remember how quickly we got to Thea's resurrection. 

Bummed if DD turns out to be Felicity's dad.  

[AyChihuahua]

I'm in the minority on this, but I consider Nyssa/Oliver to be actually married. It's not what most people would consider a real marriage and I don't see how it could be legally binding (as least as far as Starling City is concerned), but to me it still counts.

So it's an actual marriage, but not a real marriage, and not a legal marriage, meaning...what, exactly?  Nyssa is recurring, so they're not going to live together.  But you think he couldn't marry Felicity?  I really don't know what an actual but not real and not legal marriage is, honestly.

Edited May 7, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Guest]

On the bright side there are only 6 more days until the end of the season :)

 

PRAISE! :)

[tarotx]

Other than the huge issue of Nyssa's consent why couldn't the marriage be legal? Did they say the qualifications of the priestess?

[AyChihuahua]

It is not legal in the United States for many reasons, including that there are all kinds of PITA rules for American citizens to wed overseas (that is why when celebrities "wed" overseas they usually have a courthouse-style ceremony in the US before or after), but most importantly, the League of Assassins is not a sovereign nation recognized by the US.  It would be the equivalent of a American citizen being wed to an Al Qaeda terrorist by an Al Qaeda imam.  The US would not recognize that marriage.

 

For example: 

 

Katie Holmes and Tom Cruise, legally married in California prior to Italian ceremony.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,1073518_1561075,00.html

 

Btw, Nyssa couldn't get a green card out of it either, not only because of all the many reasons the marriage would not be recognized, and also because she's a citizen of nowhere except a terrorist organization.  That is one background check she will not be passing.  

Edited May 7, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[statsgirl]

Malcolm is good, and then he's bad (blowing up the Queens Gambit and the Undertaking) and then he's good (getting Moira off, saving Thea) and then he's bad (brainwashing Thea to kill Sara) and then he's good (helping Oliver) and then he's bad (telling Ra's Oliver was the mole) and now at the start of 323 he's good again?

 

I think the wheel ends up landing on good. They obviously want to keep Barrowman around as long as they can, no matter how badly the story has to be written to do that.

 

I want Oliver to stay married to Nyssa (although poor Nyssa doesn't deserve it).  And be stuck with the LoA all through the hiatus,while Diggle and Felicity live happy lives in Starling City.  "Natural consequences" for not trusting them.

[tessaray]

So it's an actual marriage, but not a real marriage, and not a legal marriage, meaning...what, exactly?  Nyssa is recurring, so they're not going to live together.  But you think he couldn't marry Felicity?  I really don't know what an actual but not real and not legal marriage is, honestly.

 

It has meaning in NP, at least. And while we don't know yet what the status of the LoA is after the next episode, I can see where Oliver and Nyssa might have to deal with it so she is considered free of any ties to him.  Getting a NP annulment will probably require rare herbs that can only be harvested under a full moon by virgin priestesses or some such nonsense.  (If MG wants to drag it out.)  

[AyChihuahua]

It has meaning in NP, at least. And while we don't know yet what the status of the LoA is after the next episode, I can see where Oliver and Nyssa might have to deal with it so she is considered free of any ties to him.  Getting a NP annulment will probably require rare herbs that can only be harvested under a full moon by virgin priestesses or some such nonsense.  (If MG wants to drag it out.)  

But Oliver certainly won't be living in NP or in the LOA after the finale, so it has no meaning to him.  And Nyssa won't care, because she has no interest in being with him, since she's a lesbian.  I think at most it'll be referenced in a snarky/humorous way, which I could enjoy.  I would love to see the look of utter contempt on Nyssa's face as she says "Hello, husband."  And, as someone else said, Felicity could then babble about being Oliver's mistress.  

 

As an aside, I hope Nyssa basically blows up the LOA.  I hate it so so much.  Plus, they pretty much screwed her over, so I'd like it if she kept "accidentally" killing members during "practice" and didn't allow any newbies in.

[Reba]

The marriage will only continue as long as there is someone/thing to enforce it. So MG isn't going to want to spoil if Ra's temains or if Oliver is evil. and earlier he didn't want to spoil if it was a love marriage or some plot contrived marriage. So I don't take much stock in him not knowing if it would continue into S4 *wink*.

I do look forward to felicity teasing oliver about his first wife. Or I hope back from the dead Sara teasing Nyssa.

[Genki]

IMO it's contract and since both Oliver and Nyssa entered the contract under duress, it's not binding. I wish the show never went there because I don't see the point of this particular storyline.

As for the finale I hope there is something redeemable for the shittiness of the season. It looks to me from the 1minute promo that there may be a choice between saving Starling City vs saving Oliver. Felicity will choose Oliver while Laurel and Diggle may choose the city. (If it was up to Oliver he would choose saving the city.) Thea is also an unknown for me since she is working with Diggle.

I wonder how Lance will factor in...

I think (hope) that Oliver will be letting other help him in this episode, because otherwise what is the point of the season. I hope they show some way of Oliver asking for help. I'm kinda annoyed that Malcolm is claiming credit for their survival from the fake A/O virus.

Will be good to see Barry and it will be nice to have him on Oliver's side. But still not sure how they are getting back to Starling, probably Malcolm via Farris Air which seems to be the airline of choice for villians...

[catahoulamama]

But Oliver certainly won't be living in NP or in the LOA after the finale, so it has no meaning to him.  And Nyssa won't care, because she has no interest in being with him, since she's a lesbian.  I think at most it'll be referenced in a snarky/humorous way, which I could enjoy.  I would love to see the look of utter contempt on Nyssa's face as she says "Hello, husband."  And, as someone else said, Felicity could then babble about being Oliver's mistress.  

 

As an aside, I hope Nyssa basically blows up the LOA.  I hate it so so much.  Plus, they pretty much screwed her over, so I'd like it if she kept "accidentally" killing members during "practice" and didn't allow any newbies in.

Yeah, after this season, I need Nyssa to burn the League and everything associated with it to ashes and never speak of it again. Will we get that? Hell no. LOL

[catahoulamama]

In the promo, it looks like Oliver is flying the cargo plane and Nyssa's riding shotgun with the back loading area open and they're coming in to land/crash. Sorry, but Oliver's a pilot now? He's never done that before, right? 

[Guest]

In the promo, it looks like Oliver is flying the cargo plane and Nyssa's riding shotgun with the back loading area open and they're coming in to land/crash. Sorry, but Oliver's a pilot now? He's never done that before, right? 

 

Yes, in the s2 finale he flew the plane to Lian Yu.

[InsertWordHere]

In the promo, it looks like Oliver is flying the cargo plane and Nyssa's riding shotgun with the back loading area open and they're coming in to land/crash. Sorry, but Oliver's a pilot now? He's never done that before, right? 

They mentioned he was flying the team back at the end of the Season 2 finale. It's one of those things that clued Felicity and Diggle into the fact that he didn't spend five years on a deserted island and learn to fly a plane.