Spoiler Discussion Thread

[blixie]

 

Here's what I don't really understand about that virus - Ra's just happens to have it on hand for...what, exactly?

 

I assume Maseo had some of it when he arrived in NP, so it's just been safe kept and or/bullet in the chamber for Darhk or other unforseen enemies/conflagrations. I'm definitely in the group hoping there is Damian Darhk/Malcom team up (haha) and also that Maseo is undercover for Waller/Argus, so maybe the vial is like Aquafina. I would laugh and laugh, especially if Maseo punched Ras in the face all/ "You're such a chump."

 

 

I'm kind of thinking that maybe the kidnapping was supposed to be it. SA said he had to mentally count down to how many episodes were left after he got this script, trying to see how they were going to undo what he did, and IDK, I don't think there's all that much to undo?

 

Yeah I'm thinking this is what they were talking about and I hope IF this *is* the great discord it is just those two being mutually abhored there was any violation of their bromance/allegiance to each other, there bond off screen and on might just make them see it that way. AWWW.

Edited April 30, 2015 by blixie

[nksarmi]

I don't believe that Oliver has been working this whole time for Waller but I could believe she contacted him since he got the new job offer and let him know the stakes were higher than he knew. If Oliver's plan had been all along to let Ra's recruit him, I have a hard time believing he would have let anyone die in his city. Those deaths would have been on his head since he'd just be planning to say yes anyway. And it would negate his moment where he came to realize what was his true reason for being the Arrow - to save lives not be thanked.

In 3.20 I always thought it odd that he didn't immediately have Digg and Felicity at his side while he was in the hospital room with Thea. Maybe it was deliberately written as an open window for Waller to approach him about and tell him Ra's had the virus. He would have shrugged her off, only concerned with Thea but once he had the chance to revive her, he could have gone in to Nanda Parbat with a mission. Not a clear plan but a chance to stop what in the past he'd been unable to stop.

I am probably giving the writers too much credit.

I think your version works just fine.  I was just trying to fit the idea of this season feeling like the end of a trilogy into what we have going on.  That and after all the stuff that has happened in Hong Kong - I just began wondering when/how did Oliver STOP working for Waller and my next thought after that was "What if he never did?"

 

But I digress because again, your version still works.

 

However, MG did just recently say that Oliver was going to have a lot of blood on his hands at the end of 3x22 and IF we learn that Oliver had been working with Waller for three years to destroy the LoA - that could be a lot of blood on his hands. Shrug - I really don't know if I can be right about this because it would imply a whole lot of planning and forethought to this story that hasn't seemed to be there all season.  But I guess that's why I like it so much.

[AyChihuahua]

Imagine that annulment proceeding: "So, I'm a lesbian, but my dad, who happens to be the head of a league of evil murderers (no, judge, it's not a sovereign state, just kind of a quasi-voluntary assemblage of international terrorists), told me I had to marry this dude here, who I pretty much despise, or my dad would kill me.  Speaking of which, the dude was also totally brainwashed and drugged, and my dad was going to murder him and everyone he loved if he refused, and was also going to destroy his hometown either way.  And no, we didn't meet any of the licensing requirements for a US citizen to contract a valid overseas marriage (not me, I'm legally a citizen of nowhere, because the aforementioned assemblage is not a sovereign nation), but there were cool outfits and lots of nice sconces."

 

Oh, and "No, we've never had sex, because as I mentioned, I am a LESBIAN.  Whatever some dudes/porn films seem to think, lesbians are not actually bisexual.  Me having sex with a dude would be like a straight dude having sex with another dude."

Edited April 30, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[DrSpaceman10]

I don't see the point of Oliver marrying Nyssa, which judging by the promo screencaps and MG's comments seems like it is actually going to happen. Arrow has made plenty of other stupid decisions, but at least on some level I understood why they made them. For example, killing Sara (even though a lot of the audience thinks it was the wrong choice) was to make Laurel the BC, it had a purpose. Oliver marrying Nyssa serves no plot purpose, where do they even go from here?

 

I just can't wrap my mind around this level of stupidity. 

[lemotomato]

I wouldn't put it past them that the only reason they're doing it is to recreate the Batman/Talia marriage in the comics. Just like the shirtless swordfight on top of the mountain was an "homage" to the Batman/Ra's fight in the comics.

 

So basically, because comics.

[BkWurm1]

I have a feeling the wedding is only happening to explain why Oliver and Nyssa are going to be standing near each other at some crucial moment. It's about positioning the characters. The writers need Oliver and Nyssa to talk to each other or fight or plot something - who knows at this point- but since they had Oliver displace her in the league, they had to come up with a contrived reason why they'd be hanging together.

Edited April 30, 2015 by BkWurm1

[AyChihuahua]

I've said this a bunch of times, but there is zero, literally zero, in-show reason for a Nyssa/Oliver wedding or marriage except BECAUSE BATMAN.  And that is why I am 99% sure it's going to happen, because Guggie wanks off regularly to thoughts of Batman.

[Guest]

Well, MG did say that the wedding actually takes place, as in it finishes. So I'm guessing it's happening. 

[apinknightmare]

Well, MG did say that the wedding actually takes place, as in it finishes. So I'm guessing it's happening. 

 

Shhh, no. It gets broken up and Thea and Roy get married.

 

 

let

me

have

it

i can only live in this denial for 6 more days

[Velocity23]

But is it the only wedding taking place is the question then.

[Sunshine]

Two people who look like they do in those photos should never get married.  Nyssa was prepared to die.  Why is she agreeing to it?!

[apinknightmare]

Two people who look like they do in those photos should never get married.  Nyssa was prepared to die.  Why is she agreeing to it?!

 

Yeah, I don't understand why she doesn't just off herself or try to escape. Her saying she's not afraid of Ra's is meaningless if the very next breath she does exactly what he wants her to do against her will. I'm really hoping she has something planned - like the League members behind them are Team Arrow and they start a melee or something. 

[blixie]

Oof Nyssa's face in those wedding scenes, poor Nyssa. It really drives home exactly how gross this is, but y'know Ras is evil, it's not like Guggies sending any gross message by portraying this type of thing. Jackhole.

[AyChihuahua]

It really makes no sense that she wouldn't just die first.  Nyssa al Ghul does not fear death.  I figured that it would have something to do with Sara having been LPd and Ra's threatens her, but supposedly Caity Lotz won't be back on Arrow this season.  So it has to be some kind of a plot between Nyssa and Oliver, otherwise they're just destroying yet another strong female character.

[Chasity]

They both look so miserable in those pics. 

 

 

Yeah, I don't understand why she doesn't just off herself or try to escape. Her saying she's not afraid of Ra's is meaningless if the very next breath she does exactly what he wants her to do against her will. I'm really hoping she has something planned - like the League members behind them are Team Arrow and they start a melee or something. 

If Nyssa killed herself, wouldn't Ra's just bring her back via the pit.

[apinknightmare]

If Nyssa killed herself, wouldn't Ra's just bring her back via the pit.

 

Maybe. She could always slink off somewhere he'd never find her and do it.

[catrox14]

So laurel isn't even bothering with a wig and a mask anymore?

[apinknightmare]

So, the summary for 3x22 includes Ra's giving Nyssa some shocking news. Was that the wedding, or does he have more in store for her? Is it something about her mother, or....

[AyChihuahua]

"If Nyssa killed herself, wouldn't Ra's just bring her back via the pit."

 

She could blow herself up (pink mist can't be LPd), have someone chop off her head (doubt it fixes decapitation), or throw herself into a volcano. 

 

I'm still fascinated that after this coming episode, assuming the Flarrow episode timing is fixed, Oliver jets to CC to help Barry.  Like, TA is probably in chains, Oliver's married to Nyssa and probably has been ordered to execute TA and destroy Starling City, but he's going to take a quick jaunt to help his buddy Barry (against a villain that should seriously be able to destroy Oliver in .8 seconds).

[looptab]

Not to destroy anyone's hope, and I really hope I'm wrong, but from all the talk Katrina Law made about Nyssa ultimately respecting the traditions of the League, her upbringing, her culture, blah bla blah..I think she just accepts it because Ra's said so. I would love if there was some plan, but I'm not expecting it, or counting too much on it.

[apinknightmare]

 

Please be saying, "Um...hell no."

[Password]

Can anyone think of a reason why Laurel and Katana have costumes on? I guess Katana wants to conceal her identity but Laurel must be hot in that leather get up...and no mask.

Oliver please take pity on her.

[apinknightmare]

Can anyone think of a reason why Laurel and Katana have costumes on? I guess Katana wants to conceal her identity but Laurel must be hot in that leather get up...and no mask.

Oliver please take pity on her.

 

The only thing I can think of is that she's used to fighting in that outfit and feels comfortable in it? But yeah, I can't imagine how hot she would be in that thing, yikes.

Edited April 30, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

Shhh, no. It gets broken up and Thea and Roy get married.

 

 

let

me

have

it

i can only live in this denial for 6 more days

 

Lol, I'm sorry. I don't want it to happen either and it is very suspicious that they spoiled the wedding already but MG saying the wedding actually completes just threw me. Everything is so dumb. 

 

 

 

Please be saying, "Um...hell no."

 

 

She really does look like she wants to say "No, this is ridiculous, I must stop this."

[apinknightmare]

She really does look like she wants to say "No, this is ridiculous, I must stop this."

 

Maybe her drugs are wearing off?  I'm hoping that's the beginning of the end of that wedding. 

[dtissagirl]

I don't understand why Nyssa doesn't decapitate OLIVER right there during the ceremony. All of her problems solved, tbh.

[Soulfire]

I just want to scream WHY? No, really. What is the narrative purpose of this marriage? To, quote Ra's, "combine the blood of our families"?

 

Damn myself for still caring what happens to Oliver, Felicity and Diggle. Otherwise I might be able to stop watching this stupid show. 

[AyChihuahua]

"Not to destroy anyone's hope, and I really hope I'm wrong, but from all the talk Katrina Law made about Nyssa ultimately respecting the traditions of the League, her upbringing, her culture, blah bla blah..I think she just accepts it because Ra's said so. I would love if there was some plan, but I'm not expecting it, or counting too much on it."

 

At some point, there is going to be a plan, because every indication is that the LOA/Ra's storyline ends at the end of this season.  She doesn't necessarily have to be in on it, but there does have to be one.  Also, she wasn't in with his plan to use the virus on a city, right?  So not totally willing to do whatever Ra's says.

 

"Damn myself for still caring what happens to Oliver, Felicity and Diggle. Otherwise I might be able to stop watching this stupid show."

 

I'm pretty over Felicity now, getting very close to being over Oliver, still fond of Diggle (although he's really kind of a quitter, which seems odd for a special forces vet).  I loved Roy and he's gone.  I like Thea now.  So I'm soooo close to being out! 

Edited April 30, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Chaser]

Instead of Nyssa falling on her blade, maybe she should just kill Oliver. Take off his head and then just sass Ra's "Whoops."

[looptab]

At some point, there is going to be a plan, because every indication is that the LOA/Ra's storyline ends at the end of this season.  She doesn't necessarily have to be in on it, but there does have to be one.  Also, she wasn't in with his plan to use the virus on a city, right?  So not totally willing to do whatever Ra's says.

 

Yeah, I meant I don't think Nyssa has a plan, I wasn't ruling out any kinds of planning. Should have been clearer :) You're right that she defied her father before, but it's not like we can take coherent character's motivation as a given on this show :D

Edited April 30, 2015 by looptab

[apinknightmare]

Instead of Nyssa falling on her blade, maybe she should just kill Oliver. Take off his head and then just sass Ra's "Whoops."

 

Maybe MG meant that Oliver literally had a lot of blood on his hands, as in his own. After Nyssa runs him through as is the al Ghul/Queen tradition.

[SmallScreenDiva]

There's nothing to annul - it's a ritual marriage that's only valid within the League, unless Ra's got himself ordained on the Church of the Internet, but both of them would have a good case for coercion. MG was just fucking with shippers with that one, I think. Either that or Oliver and Nyssa's wedding gets interrupted and the two who actually tie the knot are Thea and Roy.

 

I'm now thinking about that spoiler from earlier this season about a character not reaching his/her comic book destiny and I wonder if that's maybe Thea. She doesn't become Speedy, or whoever else she's supposed to be. Because I'm starting to lean toward Thea and Roy now with regards to the wedding. Although if Thea is out then who would be the 3 new costumed characters running around Starling at the end of the season? ATOM, BC and ?, maybe a character we haven't met?

[AyChihuahua]

Willa Holland could definitely choose to leave, and it's likely she had a three-year contract, so now would be the time.  I doubt TIIC (does that stand for "those idiots in charge"?) would choose to get rid of her, as she seems a pretty obvious replacement sidekick to me. 

[catrox14]

Didn't SA say that the entire arc of s3 was some convoluted shit?  So maybe that wasn't just about Sara's death. I hope it does all end up being a long con by someone. I don't even care who at this point.

I'm sorry but Oliver's outfit is terribad. Like the Assasin's thing is cool but his "dress black" looks like a bad version of BSG's dress blues....

 

Sigh.

[apinknightmare]

I'm now thinking about that spoiler from earlier this season about a character not reaching his/her comic book destiny and I wonder if that's maybe Thea. She doesn't become Speedy, or whoever else she's supposed to be. Because I'm starting to lean toward Thea and Roy now with regards to the wedding. Although if Thea is out then who would be the 3 new costumed characters running around Starling at the end of the season? ATOM, BC and ?, maybe a character we haven't met?

 

Technically speaking, Thea doesn't have a comics destiny to reach, because she doesn't exist. And WH was getting fitted for a mask (unless that was a red herring), and we haven't seen the mask yet, so if she's just going to leave the show why would they bother? 

 

The third person could be Katana since Tatsu is back, but I think it's likely Thea. I'm not sure why Roy and Thea would ultimately call things off if they are the ones who get hitched, but there's got to be a reason why everyone's in NP and Thea's off with Roy somewhere when it seems like they could've had her say goodbye to Roy and then meet up with the team to go to NP? 

Edited April 30, 2015 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

The whole "There will be a wedding and a marriage" and "we haven't decided how long in to s4 the marriage will last" just feels incredibly insulting to the viewers.  You've got a couple that is so popular, they're wining Best  Couple awards and bringing a whole lot of press and social media interest to the show and instead of honoring that, they're planning on marrying one of the couple to someone else (of the wrong gender orientation) for. incredibly. poor. story-telling. reasons.  Did MG learn his storytelling skills from Ethel M. Dell?

 

I completely agree, one ep of evil oliver is enough. I can not deal with the utter hopelessness of this situation. Real life sucks enough without layering this on.

THIS.    For many people real life is hard and we go to TV and the moves to make ourselves feel better for a while.  Did MG never see Sullivan's Travels?

 

When TV makes you feel worse, it can be like it's just too much.

 

It does. I mean what other show would have a couple finally get together after three seasons and then in the next episode marry one of those characters off to someone else?

I think Moonlighting did. That's one of the things that created the Moonlighting Curse.

[Velocity23]

So Thea & Roy are just gonna down & dirty just to say goodbye?

[apinknightmare]

So Thea & Roy are just gonna down & dirty just to say goodbye?

 

Goodbye sex seems to be the theme of this season. 

 

Hopefully it's goodbye to the single life honeymoon sex.

[wonderwall]

I have a question... So the Arrow crew filmed in their courthouse location... Did we see that courthouse on screen yet?

[Velocity23]

Let them run-off to Vegas.

[quarks]

I have to say, I gotta admire the chutzpah, if that's the right word, of Arrow cheerfully going ahead and promoting this Oliver/Nyssa wedding in a nice big spread in Entertainment Weekly.  During sweeps weeks, no less, after a season where the show has been so broke it's sharing sets with its sister show.  If only because I was saying that I thought a wedding would be promoted up big time in Entertainment Weekly. 

 

I'm wrong about so many things on this show, but I did get that part right!

[calliope1975]

While I'm hoping that this has all been Malcolm (and maybe Ra's) convoluted plan all along, it still doesn't make sense. He have to know what everyone's reaction would be to the events he set in motion. I also like to see more from The Magician than lame dad magic.

 

I think what really happened was MG googled that Batman fighting Ra's cover and decided that was going to happen. How we get there doesn't really matter which is why none of it is resonating with people. Just like this wedding. Narratively, it isn't logical, but MG wants it to happen so it will. Batman and Oliver Queen aren't interchangeable, but MG's not a good enough writer to hit the beats he wants without twisting the characters to the plot, and that's a shame.

[Chaser]

I can't foresee a surprise twist that would wrap up the Villain arc of this season cleanly. There are way too many dangling ends.

 

"Foresee a Surprise Twist" - I swear it makes sense in my head. LOL

Edited April 30, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[statsgirl]

I have to say, I gotta admire the chutzpah, if that's the right word, of Arrow cheerfully going ahead and promoting this Oliver/Nyssa wedding in a nice big spread in Entertainment Weekly.  During sweeps weeks, no less, after a season where the show has been so broke it's sharing sets with its sister show.  If only because I was saying that I thought a wedding would be promoted up big time in Entertainment Weekly.

I'm still trying to understand the logic of promoting a wedding that a substantial part of the fandom is going to hate.  They might as well have made it an Oliver/Laurel wedding, at least that would bring the Lauriver shippers.

 

It's sweeps month and my feeling after seeing that spread is "I'm just going to skip this episode. Maybe I'll see what the following one brings if they've broken up by then."

[AyChihuahua]

I bet somehow Felicity will be watching it, too.  Gotta get more teary-eyed heartbreak for Felicity.

[apinknightmare]

I bet somehow Felicity will be watching it, too.  Gotta get more teary-eyed heartbreak for Felicity.

 

If Ra's was a real dick, he'd make her watch.

[AyChihuahua]

I mean, he really, really is.  He's not scary or imposing or at all intelligent, but he definitely is a dick.

 

I am theorizing that his wedding gift to Oliver will be for Oliver to execute TA.

[tv echo]

Re the EW pic of Nyssa and Oliver in their wedding garb standing next to each other - that has to be the unhappiest looking wedding couple I've ever seen.  Both their mouths are turned down at the corners.

 

I'm hopping on board apinknightmare's denial train and hoping that their wedding gets interrupted, while far away from Nanda Parbat Thea & Roy elope to Vegas.

Edited April 30, 2015 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

So the wedding and marriage is really happening. Wow. I didn't think Arrow would stoop that low. First they kill off the first bisexual super hero so her lover can hang around a straight woman then they marry her off to a man. They are forcing two people to marry that have both said they are in love with other people. 

 

Does Ra's think he's on Game of Thrones or something, only Oliver has nothing to offer in that union besides an unwanted position of taking over the League of Lameness. Narrative wise what does this even accomplish? On GoT all the forced marriages move the story forward. 

[nksarmi]

Goodbye sex seems to be the theme of this season. 

 

Hopefully it's goodbye to the single life honeymoon sex.

I simply cannot think of anything in story that would make me believe Thea would leave Roy once she finds him again.  I can believe she would jet back and forth between wherever he is and SC to check on Oliver next season, but no way Thea is going to let go of Roy.  I refuse to believe it.