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Spoiler Discussion Thread


Morrigan2575
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“We’ve seen him suited up in the League of Assassins garb in promos, so it’s not looking good. Suffice it to say, Team Arrow will not be happy with this decision. In fact, the logline for next week’s episode mentions that Felicity will take matters into her own hands. While that could simply explain the Olicity hookup that’s been teased in the promos, I wonder whether Oliver’s go-to IT gal might make a play to go after Ra’s herself while in Nanda Parbat. When I asked executive producer Marc Guggenheim if my theory could prove true, he simply replied: “There is a scene between Felicity and Ra’s that is one of my favorites of the series.” Make of that what you will”

I'm really intrigued!

Do you know where this quote is from? I must've missed it :)

Edited by looptab
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We don't even know if its someone in the main cast.

 

To spend this season (and really S2 as well) establishing Oliver and Felicity and then have them get married only for them to discover they weren't who they thought they were would be crazy. And then try and establish some type of connection between Oliver and Laurel after that would be tough sell. The growth Oliver has gone through, that Felicity has been apart of and there for only to have him turn around and it end it with her. Ouch. 

 

Not to say they wouldn't try it, but I've no idea how that would be possible without butchering the show. With these writers it would probably be something like "Felicity, I added Green to my Superhero name and now I have a hard on for Laurel. Weird right?" Laurel is probably laughing in the background and hi-fiving the hypnotist she hired.

  • Love 5
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whoops! Sorry! -- Honestly though, you can tell who wrote this just by reading it (go to IT gal? Umm Felicity is way more than that). Oh Natalie Abrams... :p 

 

Don't worry :) I thought it was from something posted over in the Spoilers Only, thank you :)

 

However, I'm wondering about Malcolm opinion on resurrecting Thea. In the promos he's the one saying that the waters can bring people to life or something, and then there's the not-at-all-ridiculous line "The water changes you in the soul!" , plus him telling Thea's corpse she doesn't have to come back..maybe he'll be against it, knowing she is likely to go cray-cray (and maul him)?

Edited by looptab
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Do we know that this wedding is between actual characters and not just some wedding the team runs past or fights in? No one on Arrow is ready to get married.

On Tumblr, MG said that it would be a wedding AND a marriage, which seems to rule out it being to randoms in the background of a scene, which is what I thought it would be at first.

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IDK I just can't see it being O/F because MG said on tumblr they don't know if they're going to bring up the marriage in season 4. You'd think if the titular character and the fan favorite character were getting married, they'd at least have a semblance of a plan or clue of whether or not they're going to bring up the marriage in season 4. I honestly think they're just trying to rile up the shippers and nonshippers. 

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On Tumblr, MG said that it would be a wedding AND a marriage, which seems to rule out it being to randoms in the background of a scene, which is what I thought it would be at first.

That was in response to someone saying a wedding doesn't mean a marriage (i.e. a ceremony like Oliver joining the league). So he responded with a wedding and marriage. He also said he wasn't sure if the marriage would continue in S4, that is the weird response too me. Why have to characters in the cast get married at the end of the season, if you aren't following it up in the next one? He could be lying about that yesterday but I think thats weird. 

 

I'm still hopeful its Roy and Thea. She comes back from the dead and Roy returns for her. They get married and have a summer of love and then for what ever reason either continue it with a few lines here and there next season or have it annulled or something.

  • Love 2
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Killing off Felicity would be incredibly stupid given how popular her character still is (despite how they've undermined her character this season).  Having her marry Oliver just to break them up next season would also make no sense.  Even if the plan is to have them back to being platonic friends in seasons 5 plus, SA and EBR still have that natural chemistry between them.  How are they going to shut that off?  Or will they just continue to flirt with each other while engaging in multiple romances with other people? 

 

And if the EPs are really going to go the Oliver & Laurel route again, how are they going to address the lack of chemistry between SA and KC?  Unless it's one of those things where the EPs see one thing and fans like myself see something else (like MG thinking Ray is charming and not stalkerish at all).  I give up.  I can't figure it out.

Edited by tv echo
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Yeah, the part about not having decided whether the marriage carries into S4 makes me think of Roy and Thea. He's not coming back, and okay, I can see these writers legit not knowing yet how to deal with an offscreen relationship for Thea next season.

But it makes very little sense for Oliver/Felicity.

Maybe we're meeting the Damien Darhk dude on the day of his wedding? And then his brand new wife helps him kidnap/kill/explode someone/something.

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:: shrugs ::

 

I think it's absolutely possible for Oliver and Felicity to get married at the end of the season and still be endgame, assuming EBR wants to stay with the show. But then again, I've been saying that since the first season.

  • Love 18
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Again if you're using logic I think you're making a mistake, whatever they've done it has nothing to do with adhering to logic. Cause I can't see the point in either couple getting married Colton is gone (and exactly who is clamoring for Thea/Roy 4eva?), and Oliver and Felicity, (from a certain point of view that I don't share), have only just started and certainly have more than enough challenges to face truly together before they toss marriage into the mix.

 

Ah, whatever I'll be happy if they do get married, and perfectly fine if they don't. Only be ticked if they contrive yet more reasons for them NOT to be together at seasons end. Get to the getting.

  • Love 3
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IDK I just can't see it being O/F because MG said on tumblr they don't know if they're going to bring up the marriage in season 4. You'd think if the titular character and the fan favorite character were getting married, they'd at least have a semblance of a plan or clue of whether or not they're going to bring up the marriage in season 4. I honestly think they're just trying to rile up the shippers and nonshippers.

I also think that if Oliver and Felicity got married that MG would get a kick out of telling people it might not last. So I'm not sure I'd put too much stock in that answer. :)

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As for the idea of a Sara/Nyssa wedding, I think Sara should be way too fcked up to marry anyone after her return from the dead. And besides, shouldn't Sara be pissed at Nyssa that she knew of the possibility of the LP, but couldn't be bothered to use them to bring her back?

Edited by strikera0
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First of all, the writers would be robbing viewers of the entire relationship between the characters just to use their wedding as a cheap and half-arsed WTF! moment.

 

Last time I checked, a marriage was a relationship, so in what way would the viewers be robbed of "the entire relationship"? Since Arrow takes place (pretty much) in real time, a Felicity/Oliver wedding be a quick affair from their perspective as well, it's not like they're going to have an onscreen caption: "18 months later" and then them getting married. (At least I hope that's not what they're going to do!)

 

To me, them getting married and them starting dating at the end of the season would mean the same thing: I'll miss the start of their relationship, the honeymoon period, only to be dropped back in when things start to go pear-shaped again. Which is not something I particularly want, but to me it doesn't matter if that period is spent as a dating couple or a married couple.

 

 

 

 

 

Again, I'm never gonna get this, I have not been robbed of anything, I've been watching them for three years, I've enjoyed the first two, and the third has been problematic, but still the main source of my investment in the show. Shippers don't have to agree, and this shipper is more than  happy to see them married and his love life settled for the duration.

 

I'm holding out a teeny tiny hope that if they actually have Oliver and Felicity marry at the end of the season, it will be a quickie wedding because they want to have it settled for good so they can concentrate on the more comic-y aspects of the show and stop wasting time on romantic storylines (for Oliver, at least). And the only reason for the accelerated timeline is that they want Felicity to be caught between her husband and her father as they try to kill each other next season.

 

I know, it's probably a pipedream, but considering how bad they seem to be at writing a relationship trajectory when the purpose is to keep them apart (second half of season 2 and all of season 3), I'd be happier to give them a chance to write an established relationship, which is something we haven't actually seen on this show with the exception of peripheral relationships like Tommy/Laurel and Moira/Walter - neither of which I had any real problems with, BTW.

 

Of course, my preference would be Oliver and Felicity back in a friendly place at the end of the season, but with Felicity wary of Oliver's tendency to give up waaaay too easily when the going gets tough. Then 3.5 comics filled with build-up of sexual tension, continued for the first few episodes of season 4 (I want light-hearted flirting on my TV screen, dammit!), with actual dating starting around November sweeps.

  • Love 10
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A Nyssa/Sara wedding wouldn't work for me either, because we've seen more of Nyssa's relationship with Laurel then we have of her relationship with Sara. 

Edited by Sakura12
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Last time I checked, a marriage was a relationship, so in what way would the viewers be robbed of "the entire relationship"? Since Arrow takes place (pretty much) in real time, a Felicity/Oliver wedding be a quick affair from their perspective as well, it's not like they're going to have an onscreen caption: "18 months later" and then them getting married. (At least I hope that's not what they're going to do!)

 

To me, them getting married and them starting dating at the end of the season would mean the same thing: I'll miss the start of their relationship, the honeymoon period, only to be dropped back in when things start to go pear-shaped again. Which is not something I particularly want, but to me it doesn't matter if that period is spent as a dating couple or a married couple.

 

I guess this is where different standards come into play. Personally, if I ship a couple, I like to see the full program: A proper first date, characters moving in together, a lovely marriage proposal capped off with a beautiful wedding, etc. If others are happy with some half-arsed wedding that comes completely out of the blue (and yes, in this case it would be out of the blue because Oliver isn't even ready to take up a hobby let alone a marriage), that's their prerogative, of course.

  • Love 4
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I know, it's probably a pipedream, but considering how bad they seem to be at writing a relationship trajectory when the purpose is to keep them apart (second half of season 2 and all of season 3), I'd be happier to give them a chance to write an established relationship, which is something we haven't actually seen on this show with the exception of peripheral relationships like Tommy/Laurel and Moira/Walter - neither of which I had any real problems with, BTW.

Good point.

  • Love 3
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I'm sorry a Thea/Roy marriage is the only thing that does work for me.  He can be settled close enough to SC that she can see him and we don't know yet if Thea Queen will even be alive at the end of the season.  Besides, with all of their talk of running away together - I can totally see the episode Colton is coming back for to be a what the heck, let's just elope moment.  Thea and Roy in a long-distance relationship/marriage while he guest stars a few times during the season and she becomes Speedy kind of works for me.

 

The only problem I have with Thea becoming Speedy is I am now not 100% sure Oliver would allow that. I mean if the EPs say Oliver doesn't want Laurel in the field because he doesn't want her to get hurt but doesn't care about Ray because he doesn't like the guy - how in the world are they going to convince me Oliver accepts Thea as Speedy.  I almost wonder if this "changes a person in their soul" thing is going to lead to Thea becoming Cheshire and that would mean a marriage to Roy for sure. :)

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I guess I'm a bad shipper because I don't care about proper dates and especially weddings (i dislike weddings IRL too). None of my OTPs are married and I don't even like to imagine them married. That said, if I shipped Olicity, I would be pissed like hell were they to marry, because the best part of any romance is always pre-marriage (usually even pre-hookup). Plus, marrying so early would guarantee that the marriage will fall apart at some point, because Arrow would never ever let Oliver be in a committed relationship for longer than a season (maybe even half season). It doesn't mean Olicity are not endgame though - they can marry, divorce and then hook up in the series finale, but I'm not sure the road to it would be fun to watch.

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Regarding established relationships -- There's Diggle & Lyla.  Assuming that marriage remains solid next season, what are the chances that the EPs will allow two happy relationships, let alone two happy marriages, on the show?

 

I'm not sure I buy MG's explanation as to why Oliver was willing to coach Ray but won't train Laurel (namely, doesn't care about Ray, does care about Laurel).  Oliver cared about Sara and cares about Diggle, and they both trained with him - okay, they're both experienced fighters.  But Oliver also cares about Roy, who wasn't all that experienced when he joined Team Arrow, and trained him.

Edited by tv echo
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I guess this is where different standards come into play. Personally, if I ship a couple, I like to see the full program: A proper first date, characters moving in together, a lovely marriage proposal capped off with a beautiful wedding, etc. If others are happy with some half-arsed wedding that comes completely out of the blue (and yes, in this case it would be out of the blue because Oliver isn't even ready to take up a hobby let alone a marriage), that's their prerogative, of course.

 

To my way of thinking, Oliver and Felicity are already in a relationship, it just hasn't been officially moved into the "romantic relationship" category yet. They know each other better than most couples do after months and months of dating, simply because of the intense conditions they work and have gotten to know each other under.

 

I honestly have no problem with either of them knowing that this is it for them, even without the trappings of a first date and moving in together and all that jazz. I don't need those frilly things, I've seen them countless times on other shows and I think what Oliver and Felicity have has moved beyond that. I think it might actually be refreshing to clear away all the question marks and watch a couple who know each other so well, yet don't really know at all how the other is in a relationship, slowly getting to know each other's relationship selves while at the same time being a very settled couple.

 

Which isn't to say that I actually want this to happen, because I don't trust these writers to pull it off.

  • Love 14
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Just tweeted by SA: "It's our last day of Season 3. Like the last day of Season 1 and Season 2... I'm going out fighting."  

 

Argh... he's killing me!  So much for riding peacefully off into the sunset.

Edited by tv echo
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(In honor of Star Wars) "I've got a bad feeling about this"... 

 

  • Evil!Thea versus Oliver?
  • Evil!Sara (White Canary) versus Laurel (Black Canary)?
  • Evil!Dad versus Felicity?
  • And if Andy Diggle turns up alive and a HIVE double agent... Evil!Andy versus Diggle?
Edited by tv echo
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(In honor of Star Wars) "I've got a bad feeling about this"...

 

I need to watch the trailer again, so I can feel pumped about the heroes I'm watching rather than tired, so so tired.

 

The only thing that will save this spoiler about a new archer? It's Zombie Tommy (never give up Zombie Tommy!)

  • Love 5
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But they film things out of order, don't they?

Just because SA's last day of filming includes a fight scene doesn't mean the episode itself ends that way . . .

The season could still end with Oliver and Felicity driving off into the sunset.

  • Love 14
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They do often film the episode out of order. I think the most we can read into Amell's comment is that the season finale will have a fight sequence, which I think is the least surprising spoiler we've ever had in three seasons of this show. 

  • Love 13
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Last year the last scene they shot was the flashback scene with Oliver fighting Slade on the sinking ship. (Sara/CL was present too.) 

 

Oh and yeah, the new archer is totally Thea. Evil or not, that's the question...

  • Love 9
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The " "new" archer " that Canadagraphs mentions (see Spoilers Only Thread) - could this possibly be Oliver Queen as GREEN Arrow? Since Canadagraphs put "new" in quotation marks, it doesn´t seem to be a new character, but a changed one.

 

ETA: Could be Thea as SPEEDY as well... but I doubt it.

Edited by Kordi
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Regarding established relationships -- There's Diggle & Lyla.  Assuming that marriage remains solid next season, what are the chances that the EPs will allow two happy relationships, let alone two happy marriages, on the show?

 

I'm not sure I buy MG's explanation as to why Oliver was willing to coach Ray but won't train Laurel (namely, doesn't care about Ray, does care about Laurel).  Oliver cared about Sara and cares about Diggle, and they both trained with him - okay, they're both experienced fighters.  But Oliver also cares about Roy, who wasn't all that experienced when he joined Team Arrow, and trained him.

There was also Thea and Roy. And with all these examples of established relationships, I can't think of one I thought was written badly.

 

But I know, the conventional wisdom is that happiness can't be allowed to stand and relationships can never last on a TV show. But oh how I wish someone would try to buck the system and have a relationship that is the bulwark that weathers every storm. Let other things provide the angst and let the romance be the one solid thing that the hero can rely on, the thing that means he/she always prevails in the end. Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen a show that has done this.

 

 

As for MG's explanation, I agree. I don't think that's it at all. I think Oliver refuses to train Laurel or help her in any way because he wants her to give up the vigilante life. In a way, yes because he cares, but also because he doesn't think she fits. Not just into his team, but as a vigilante at all. He's all about control, superior skill, sacrifice. And Laurel is reckless, unskilled and selfish (in her motivation for becoming a vigilante). As for Ray, I think Oliver trains him a) because he needs him to accomplish this particular mission and that means getting him up to snuff, and b) yes, because he doesn't care, but also because while he doesn't know Ray enough to know if his (vigilante) heart is in the right place, he's willing to trust Felicity's judgment in this case.

Edited by lizonthefritz
  • Love 7
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Oh crud, evil Thea could explain the whole "Will Oliver get a new sidekick?" and answer "Fans are going to wonder where do they go from there?" spoiler.  Crap, you know what never occurred to me - what if they idiots don't actually take the time to tell Thea that Roy is alive?  These characters are horrible about saying what needs to be said - what if Thea doesn't know Roy is alive and blames Oliver for Roy's death?  I know Colton is coming back, but what if somehow it just isn't enough?  I mean if there is a three week gap between 3x20 and 3x21 and no genius tells her Roy is alive - that is a lot of time for crazy to turn homicidal.

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I was under the impression that the screw-up with the episodes not lining up with the Flash was due to a change in scheduling of The Flash, but I'm thinking it was actually Arrow being pulled a week earlier. Considering the resurrection and hook.up of the next episode, it definitely looks like something they had planned for sweeps.

 

What is this terrible thing in Starling City? Do they unleash Laurel's Canary Cry?


As for MG's explanation, I agree. I don't think that's it at all. I think Oliver refuses to train Laurel or help her in any way because he wants her to give up the vigilante life. In a way, yes because he cares, but also because he doesn't think she fits. Not just into his team, but as a vigilante at all. He's all about control, superior skill, sacrifice. And Laurel is reckless, unskilled and selfish (in her motivation for becoming a vigilante). As for Ray, I think Oliver trains him a) because he needs him to accomplish this particular mission and that means getting him up to snuff, and b) yes, because he doesn't care, but also because while he doesn't know Ray enough to know if his heart is in the right place, he's willing to trust Felicity's judgment in this case.

Answering in LL thread :)

Edited by looptab
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Apparently they are screening 3x20 for the press. DocBrown isn't going to be there unfortunatly.

Eh, I dont necessarily trust Doc Brown as much as I did before she was deliberately misleading about the Raylicity hookup in the 3x15 screening.

I just need 3x20 to happen already. The speculation is driving me crazy.

Edited by lemotomato
  • Love 3
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We were predicting Thea might go evil under MM's training. But in terms of storytelling, what would be the point of her suddenly going evil now? Who would she be working with, since Oliver is head of the LoA?

 

I don't know how the show is going to end s3, but however, it's got to be in a place for the 3.5 comics.  Because of that, I don't see Oliver handing up his bow because the TV audience has got to see how he picks it up again at the start of s4.  It was bad enough losing TA and flirt time over 2.5; I think the general audience would not forgive seeing Oliver regain his crusade in the 3.5 comics.

 

I really don't see the point of teasing a marriage on the show. At all.  As long as MG gives us the Olicity he gave us in Broken Arrow, we're on board to the end, and no other shippers care that much (except maybe Lauriver shippers but they can't be expecting Oliver to marry Laurel right now, can they?).  It feels like pure trolling to me.

 

Re Felicity telling Oliver she loves him:  ep 322 is titled This Is Your Sword.  The lyrics just cry out for Oliver to be redeemed by the people who love him, harking back to Felicity's line in Broken Arrow when she tells him he's so focused on protecting the people he loves, he forgets that there are people who love him.

 

This is your sword, this is  your shield

This is the power of love revealed

Carry it with you wherever you go

And give all the love that you have in your soul

 

I can see Felicity being conflicted about telling Oliver she loves him right before they're going to be separated permanently (so they believe).  Such a confession would be both a blessing and a curse.  On the one hand, she'll give him the comfort of knowing that the woman he loves loves him in return.  On the other hand, he'll be further tormented by the fact that his choice to become Heir to the Demon will break not just his heart, but the heart of the woman he loves (remember, he just wants her to be happy even if it's with another man).  Regardless of what Ra's says to her, I'd like to think that ultimately it's her decision whether to confess her feelings to Oliver and that she does so because their relationship has always been based on truth.

I think it would also be a nice parallel (and you know how this show loves its parallels) to Oliver finally outright telling her he loves her just before he goes off to die, leaving Felicity unable to do anything about it.  In this case, Oliver would be the one unable to do anything because he's promised himself to the LoA.

 

I just hope he demands they revive Thea first because for all their talk about honor, I don't trust them, nope, not at all.

Edited by statsgirl
  • Love 2
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Didn't they end season 2 with Thea making a deal with the devil and leaving Starling City? Why go back to that same well at the end of this season? Wait... dumb question. It's the Well of Stupid, and it's the only one these writers drink from.

 

I don't know what most of the spoilers have suggested, but if Guggenheim hasn't yet made up his mind about whether the marriage lasts, that would suggest to me that Oliver is forced to wed some LoA woman. So they haven't decided yet whether to angst him up in season 4 by having an unwanted wife he can't get rid of, which would also (for reasons) mean that he and Felicity couldn't really be together.

  • Love 3
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Laurel, Nyssa, Thea and Dig are the team in SC? How very Birds of Prey-ish of them.

 

Hmmm. I love Diggle, but that is not a show I think I want to watch. And if the lair was crowded before, can't wait to see how this all shakes out.

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@TVWatchtower Can you tell us if Felicity initiate a break up?
@oliversamell - That seems like a spoiler, but no. #Arrow #Olicity

 

Ugh. Why show? It should have been Felicity who ends things up.

Edited by rainydawn
  • Love 3
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As long as Raylicity do break up before she leaves for Nanda Parbat, I don't even care who initiates it anymore. I mean, we've got confirmation that it's not a dream, and a morning after scene, which is more than I expected. I'm not going to get greedy.

Edited by lemotomato
  • Love 10
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There is no way this episode is so enjoyable for Olicity fans without a Felicity / Ray break up. I think the No to the break up question is more in line with the second question in the tweet. Felicity doesn't try and save the relationship.

Dark Diggle. That has me both excited and nervous.

They didn't cut the Felicity and Laurel scene. Please don't mention any guys. No advice on love.

Sad there isn't Felicity and Thea but it's kinda understandable for this episode (not the season but this episode).

The jet scene is cute? Super cute? What?

Can Not Wait for Ras and Felicity.

Finally, a long hot love scene with a morning after. Sigh. Lol

  • Love 1
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Q: did it seem odd that ray breaks up with felicity then she tells oliver ILY & sleeps with him? Or it played out well?

A: - It all plays out well. Beautifully done. Very natural and very fun. Great episode. #Arrow

I'm now picturing Ray bouncing up and down because he's an Olicity shipper. Very

  • Love 4
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@TVWatchtower

@Lisa_Martin98 - I wouldn't say this is a Thea/Felicity episode, but there is a good Laurel/Felicity scene. #Arrow

I can't even express how much I'm sick of "Is there a Felicity/X scene?" being replied to by "No, but there's a really good Laurel/Felicity scene."

 

I really hope the scene isn't Laurel telling Felicity to take care of Oliver and handing over the torch so to speak.

  • Love 4
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There is no way this episode is so enjoyable for Olicity fans without a Felicity / Ray break up. I think the No to the break up question is more in line with the second question in the tweet. Felicity doesn't try and save the relationship.

 

Seems like that answer means that Ray breaks up with Felicity.

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