Spoiler Discussion Thread

[GirlWednesday]

If Sarah's destiny is to die a hero and Laurel to fight on in her stead... That's definitely embracing something .. Oh yeah it's called .. Mediocrity!

Edited May 12, 2014 by GirlWednesday

[catrox14]

Oh I think they've already got that planned. I think Laurel has been eyeballing Sara as hero since she figured it out and I think she is jealous more than admiring her.

 

I admit I would kind of love it if Laurel became BC because she murdered Sara out of jealousy and then professes that she is picking up BC to honor her dead sister.  Then Felicity or someone else can find out that Laurel murdered Sara and it will be all about trying to prove that Laurel is a murdering murderer who murdered her own sister. 

[Sakura12]

Then we can find out that Nyssa resurrected Sara in the Lazarus pits, she comes back to put her sister behind bars and reclaim her name. 

 

There we go problem solved, it pleases everyone, Laurel gets to be BC to for the die hard Laurel has the right name fans, the fans of Laurel going evil get to see that and the Sara fans get to keep Sara as the true Black Canary.

[catrox14]

I do not understand why we can come up with these things in 3 minutes of chit-chat and the writers just keep throwing whatever crap they think will stick with Laurel.  /smh

[Sakura12]

I think it's because they are dead set on their original plans that will stick with it no matter how stupid and contrived it will be to arrive there. 

 

You'd think since  the How I Met Your Mother debacle,  they'd see that it doesn't always work out so well. You have to be willing to change if it's just not working out the way you'd hope. They keep forcing Laurel into the spotlight in the hopes that people will suddenly love her. It's been 46 episodes and Laurel is still as hated as ever with an occasional praise for not being the ball of suck she usually is. Which is not much of compliment. 

Edited May 13, 2014 by Sakura12

[quarks]

To be fair, they had these last episodes wrapped before the How I Met Your Mother debacle aired, but hopefully they'll learn something from it for next season. There's always the Lazarus Pits if they do kill off Sara and need to get her back.  And my guess is they may really need to get her back.

 

I had a wild and wacky thought: what if another unthinkable thing is Diggle joining ARGUS?  He'd be back on Team Arrow by the first episode of the next season, but it would be a fun cliffhanger sort of thing.

Edited May 13, 2014 by quarks

[apinknightmare]

 

I had a wild and wacky thought: what if another unthinkable thing is Diggle joining ARGUS?  He'd be back on Team Arrow by the first episode of the next season, but it would be a fun cliffhanger sort of thing.

 

See, I don't think this is that wacky. Waller is shady as hell; Team Arrow would do well to have someone on the inside, keeping things in check. And Diggle needs a job, so...

[KirkB]

What kind of authority does Argus have that Waller can cordon off a city full of people and nuke it anyway?

[quarks]

The mysterious power that Hollywood TV grants ALL shady quasi governmental agencies!

[SleepDeprived]

Well, The X-Files taught me that FEMA can exercise some sort of extra-constitutional role and, basically, declare martial law to exercise additional governmental powers once a state of emergency is declared... I'm not saying ARGUS thinks Slade's an alien hellbent on colonizing other cities (earth!) after Starling City but we do have Krycek on the show so... ;)

[BkWurm1]

http://tvline.com/2014/05/13/arrow-season-2-spoilers-oliver-felicity-finale-season-3/

Producer interview to make you pull your hair out in hope and frustration and worry.

Edited May 13, 2014 by BkWurm1

[bravelittletoaster]

TVLINE | Looking ahead at Season 3, how will the landscape be altered?

The way we’ve been approaching Season 3 is [with the] recognition that the season finale of Season 2 doesn’t feel like just a conclusion of Season 2, but rather a conclusion of Seasons 1 and 2 – that we were telling one, big 46-episode story. The season finale really gives you a strong sense of closure and that a chapter really, truly is finished. My hope is that it’ll do so in a way that will make people go, “Wow, this story may be over, but I’m really interested in seeing what the next story they tell with these characters is.”

 

Please tell me this means the end of flashback island.  

[Sakura12]

I don't think flashback Island is ever going away. We'll need another season of Oliver and another woman. The first season was Shado, second season was Sara and the third will be Amanda Waller. 

[icandigit]

 

I don't think flashback Island is ever going away. We'll need another season of Oliver and another woman. The first season was Shado, second season was Sara and the third will be Amanda Waller.

After reading that post, Tupac's "I get around" just popped in my head.

[quarks]

New sneak peek from TV Guide:

 

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Arrow-Season2-Finale-Video-1081695.aspx

 

I know you'll all be shocked, but it looks like Laurel got kidnapped again, for a total of four times this season alone. Which I still think is a bit better than last season, although last season she was in every episode so she had more chances to get kidnapped.

 

Apart from Laurel gets kidnapped again, I am really beginning to worry that my major response to this episode is going to be, "Nyssa's hot. Wow, Nyssa's hot. You know, I can't help noticing that Nyssa's hot."  

[catrox14]

Well, it looks to me like we know that Oliver chose the City in that moment.  He said "The City comes first".  And he's right.  Millions of lives vs one life?  I think that is the actual choice for Oliver.  Not whose life it is particularly.

Edited May 13, 2014 by catrox14

[SleepDeprived]

 

Apart from Laurel gets kidnapped again, I am really beginning to worry that my major response to this episode is going to be, "Nyssa's hot. Wow, Nyssa's hot. You know, I can't help noticing that Nyssa's hot."

 

I'm in the same boat, quarks. Forget Laurel's kidnapping, I'm all about how hot Nyssa is looking right now. I mean, I know she's a beautiful lady but she just seems extra hot in that sneak peek. Get it, Sara Lance! You go, girl!

[Danny Franks]

Yes, Nyssa is hot. Seriously hot. Her and Sara need to have their own spinoff where they go around beating the crap out of people and making out. It'd be a hit.

 

As for that sneak peek, two things:

 

1. Remember when Buffy said, "Dawn's in trouble? Must be Tuesday."? Yeah, Laurel Lance is Dawn Summers just a decade or so older. Except I quite liked Dawnie.

 

2. Felicity initially looks like she's just messing about on her phone while Lance and Sara worry about Laurel, and it's fucking hilarious. Like she is just so over Laurel that she's not even paying attention to the latest damsel in distress situation.

 

Meanwhile, Laurel is all captured and useless, and Felicity is redirecting satellites to track Slade's men and get up to date intelligence for the team. Why does the show keep doing this? Why juxtapose efficient, useful, smart and resourceful Felicity with Laurel the drunky kidnap victim?

[KirkB]

Slade having all his men gathered together seems strategically unsound. If somebody could get through to Waller it would be easy for her to redirect the drone to wipe them all out at once. Then again, Slade isn't exactly in his right mind. He probably also assumes Oliver will come running to save Laurel. I guess he doesn't count on Oliver having enough backup (Sara, Roy, Malcolm, Nyssa and her assassins) to do both at once.

Edited May 13, 2014 by KirkB

[statsgirl]

Maybe Slade's men are trying to break through the ARGUS blockade?  None of them are thinking well.

 

 

Meanwhile, Laurel is all captured and useless, and Felicity is redirecting satellites to track Slade's men and get up to date intelligence for the team. Why does the show keep doing this? Why juxtapose efficient, useful, smart and resourceful Felicity with Laurel the drunky kidnap victim?

Scary thought" what if they really believe they are showing Laurel in a good light, the Arrow consort light?

 

If it's true that Laurel is the one that Slade kidnaps because she's the one "Oliver loves the most" (blech), I'm going to need some serious Oliver/Felicity "I thought you were dead/ I wouldn't let you down" moments to counteract the nausea.

[GirlWednesday]

This is probably going to be a dumb question and you guys are going to revoke my fan forum membership. My disclaimer - not a comic book person but love sci-fi/adventure/fantasy shows.

What's a comparable example where all the hero does is save a useless "heroine" of the story? Lois was useful, Mary Jane maybe?

In this generation, we are drawn to the Felicity's and Sarah's of the world. Why would the writers even consider that whiny Laurel who is righteous and grandstanding and is constantly needing to be saved I s a acceptable and successful heroine of a story?

Heroines should inspire.

Edited May 14, 2014 by GirlWednesday

[Morrigan2575]

I think it mostly depends on the era, comics reflect the times so back in the day Lois was an idiot who needed saving every 5 minutes, Mary Jane was a vapid part girl, Jane Foster basically abandoned her husband and child the minute Thor can back to Earth (in all fairness they had Scott Summers basically do the same thing when Jean came back to life)

I think it's the more modern takes on female characters (post Buffy/Xena) that make characters like Lana and Laurel really hard to take seriously as heroines or even relatable female characters.

[BkWurm1]

Why would the writers even consider that whiny Laurel who is righteous and grandstanding and is constantly needing to be saved I s a acceptable and successful heroine of a story?

 

Taking to Target Practice, the General Arrow discussion thread

[Sakura12]

Why would the writers even consider that whiny Laurel who is righteous and grandstanding and is constantly needing to be saved I s a acceptable and successful heroine of a story?

 

Because she has the right name, what other reason do you need? Her fans think that's all that is needed. 

 

A constantly kidnapped super hero would definitely be new to the world of heroes. She's the Caged Canary! 

[GirlWednesday]

Hahaha best moniker yet for LL!

[statsgirl]

For a long time, it was thought that only boys or men were interested in adventure stories so they were all that mattered.  There were no women or only minor ones in Arthur Conan Doyle's  The Lost World, Jules Verne's Journey to the Centre of the Earth or Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, or Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea.or James Hilton's Lost Horizon.  They were manly men and women were either bit players or non-existent.*

 

Meanwhile Ethel M. Dell was writing books about women going to the Sahara and getting kidnapped by dashing sheiks and Lady Hester Stanhope had a hundred years earlier donned the clothes of a Turkish man to travel the Arab world.  So the guys were dead wrong.

 

But it's taken a while for the adventure book and comic book world to catch up and realize that women want to be in on the adventure too, although you'd never know it from some DiD fans, so when the books of Doyle or Verne are made into movies or TV shows now, they create substantial female characters for the female audience.  However, while there are strong female heros, that are also a lot of DiDs.

 

 

*My favorite example of missing the point is James Hilton's Random Harvest about a man who fights in WWI, has a head injury and loses his memory and marries a woman, then re-gains his memory completely forgetting the intervening years. She finds him and becomes his secretary and  has to watch him getting engaged to another woman, completely unaware that he had once been married to her.  In the book, the woman is barely mentioned it's all about his feelings and his life but if you ever see the movie with Greer Garson and Ronald Colman, it's clear that to have it told from her point of view makes for a much better story.

[catrox14]

So I just had a bizarre thought.  What if Oliver ends up whisked away by the Flash somewhere so remote that he can't get back and everyone thinks Oliver is dead...

 

 So....Laurel picks up his bow and becomes the new Green Arrow, since she's already used it. Now that would be something no one would see coming and would answer "Wait....he's where?!"

 

I literally wouldn't put it past these numbskull showrunners to do something that stupid

[bravelittletoaster]

Yes, Nyssa is hot. Seriously hot. Her and Sara need to have their own spinoff where they go around beating the crap out of people and making out. It'd be a hit.

 

I like the way you think.  Seriously my wishlist for the finale basically has two items: 1. Nyssa and Sara being hot together, 2. Sara not dying.  It's not like I ask for a lot, y'all.  I think I'm really reasonable in that regard.

[icandigit]

http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/05/arrow-episode-223-unthinkable-season_14.html

 

I like their scenes together. Oliver has a different dynamic with him than the others. Really cool. Can't wait for the finale. Wish he would stop quoting villains though.

Edited May 14, 2014 by icandigit

[quarks]

(watches latest sneak peak.)

 

Ok, it's official. My entire reaction to this episode is going to be: Nyssa is hot. Nyssa is seriously hot. Why is Nyssa not on my screen more?  YAY Nyssa! 

[quarks]

And in less "Nyssa is hot" speculation, some finale speculation:

 

The showrunners and Amell are saying that no one could have predicted where the show will end up. Based on that, my almost certainly wrong predictions!

 

1. Felicity or Laurel or Sara "dies" in the present timeline (promo pictures suggest Felicity), with scenes intercut with Sara "dying" in the past timeline. Past timeline shows the LoA getting Sara's body and putting it into the Lazarus Pit, and then Nyssa asking for the body of whoever just "died."

 

2. None of the good guys die, but Slade agrees to leave the city alone and let his superpowered army get dosed with Mirakuru if Oliver agrees to leave Starling City - the thing he really loves - forever. This leads to Oliver and possibly back on the island.

 

3. Oliver is introduced to something that might be able to replace ARGUS - "We're still working out a name, but Hall of Justice sounds good, don't you think?"

 

4. That one still is accurate, and Oliver is just in the middle of nowhere.

 

5. Oliver ends up on Mars and meets the Martian Manhunter and/or Green Lantern! I know, all of you are going to object that the Martian Manhunter does not belong on this show and this show doesn't have the budget to handle Green Lantern, but it does count as something nobody would have expected.

Edited May 14, 2014 by quarks

[Lisin]

Felicity or Laurel or Sara "dies" in the present timeline (promo pictures suggest Felicity), with scenes intercut with Sara "dying" in the past timeline. Past timeline shows the LoA getting Sara's body and putting it into the Lazarus Pit, and then Nyssa asking for the body of whoever just "died."

This is my bet as well, and if it's Laurel then it makes more sense to me, because Nyssa is more invested in keeping Sara happy, and also if Laurel gets saved by a Lazarus Pit then has to train with the LoA perhaps I would be more willing to take her as a "hero" later down the line. 

[GirlWednesday]

I don't suppose Lazarus Pit can also change LL's face so we get another actress for the role. Clean slate for the writers!

[Sakura12]

I don't want Laurel with the LOA because they'd just be copying Sara's story. Why would I want to see that again with a less capable actress? if they are already giving Laurel, Sara's hero name she shouldn't copy everything Sara did. She needs to have a different story, one that is plausible but still different. 

[Morrigan2575]

The EPs just gave an interview saying their depowering Arrow now that the Flash got picked up and Arrow is going back to it's S1 roots.  I doubt they're going to bring magical/mystical healing waters into the the show if their depowering it.

[catrox14]

 

The EPs just gave an interview saying their depowering Arrow now that the Flash got picked up and Arrow is going back to it's S1 roots.  I doubt they're going to bring magical/mystical healing waters into the the show if their depowering it.

 

Wait, what?  How the fuck can they do it that? How is Malcom alive then? Is Mirakuru not superpower?

[Sakura12]

Kreisberg about Sara's fate in the finale

MTV: You mentioned Sara’s decision… I know you guys have always said that being Black Canary was Laurel’s destiny, but Sara certainly seemed to embrace the role this season — and I imagine you guys have gotten somewhat attached to Caity Lotz. We had that flash of Laurel picking up a bow and arrow last episode, so is it possible that things have changed? Will Laurel not end up being Black Canary, with Sara taking the title?

 

Kreisberg: The answer to that question will be apparent 43 minutes after you start watching the finale. [Laughs]

 

http://www.mtv.com/news/1824885/arrow-season-finale-unthinkable-andrew-kreisberg-interview/

 

That answer will be my determining factor if I'm back for season 3.

[Zalyn]

I'm really torn on whether I want to check back here during/after airtime to see what you all think and waiting until tomorrow morning when I can watch the ep for myself (iTunes).  I find that the lower my expectations for the viability of the show, the more likely I am to seek out the spoilers.  Oy. 

 

Good luck!

[quarks]

My expectations are fairly low, largely because I've found whenever an episode is built up this much, it ends up disappointing me. So I have mint chip ice cream on hand.

[Morrigan2575]

Not sure if this is the right thread but CW Announced it's FAll Lineup

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/05/thw-cw-fall-schedule-2014.html

 

8:00-9:00 P.M. “ARROW”

After a violent shipwreck, billionaire playboy Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell) was missing and presumed dead for five years before being discovered alive on a remote island in the Pacific. He returned home to Starling City, bent on righting the wrongs of his family and fighting injustice. To do this, he creates the persona of the Arrow and allies himself with former military man John Diggle (David Ramsey), computer-science expert Felicity Smoak (Emily Bett Rickards), street brawler Roy Harper (Colton Haynes) and international assassin Sara Lance (Caity Lotz), while keeping his secret from those closest to him including his sister Thea (Willa Holland), who has allied herself with his most deadly enemy. Rivalries and allegiances will shift as Oliver faces his most difficult challenge yet. Based on characters appearing in comic books and graphic novels published by DC Entertainment, ARROW is from Bonanza Productions Inc. in association with Berlanti Productions and Warner Bros. Television, with executive producers Greg Berlanti (“Green Lantern,” “Brothers & Sisters”), Marc Guggenheim (“Eli Stone,” “Percy Jackson: Sea of Monsters”), Andrew Kreisberg (“Warehouse 13,” “The Vampire Diaries”) and Sarah Schechter.

 

 

I'm wondering if this means CL is now a series regular for S3?

[Zalyn]

"Sara Lance: International Assassin" - it has a nice ring to it.  Though I imagine smarmy James Bond music to play whenever I say that.

 

No mention of LL/Katie Cassidy?  huh.

[Morrigan2575]

Nope, nor any mention of PB but I'm not surprised he's old and yucky (according to the CW)

[quarks]

Somewhat insidery rumor this morning has it that we'll get an "update" on Lotz's status (guest, reocurring, regular) at Comic Con. Take that as the internet gossip that it is :)

[Sakura12]

I have no doubt that Caity will be in season 3, but not as the character I grew to love. So I don't really care anymore. 

[KirkB]

I suppose there is the slim possibility that Laurel could die and this could be what brings Sara back to Starling but I doubt it. The show runners seem to be really in love with Laurel and I don't see her going anywhere.

[quarks]

Genuine question here: Are the showrunners really in love with Laurel? Because if so, they have an odd way of showing it.

Edited May 15, 2014 by quarks

[GirlWednesday]

Yeah all those love letter to Laurel interviews ..had me hoping that she was getting a grand sendoff. Suppose it could happen. She gets shot in the first episode and Sarah comes back.

Maybe it was a test, if giving KC a chance to market and whether that brought me more interest than usual.

[statsgirl]

I'd say there was quite a bit of interest in KC's interviews, but most of it was negative especially when she talked of taking on the Black Canary mantle and how Laurel and Oliver are OTP.

 

On the other hand, the John Barrowman spoilers.....

[GirlWednesday]

Generated The sound of a million Squees?

lol

[GreyBunny]

John Barrowman upped to series regular!  

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/arrow-john-barrowman-series-regular-704413

 

Now I have to start watching the show again!