Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BkWurm1]

Who the fuck is Damien Darhk?  Someone from the shitty post-52 reboot?

It's thought to be just some code name the producers are using to hide the real character behind or at least that is what was leaked to I think it was TVline. 

[Morrigan2575]

Damien Darhk - http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Damien_Darhk_%28New_Earth%29

[wonderwall]

Who the fuck is Damien Darhk?  Someone from the shitty post-52 reboot?

 

Even if he is sort of a third tier character from the comics, the show can still make him a compelling villain. But only if the show cuts its bloated cast and subplots in order to actually focus on making a compelling villain

[KirkB]

That is perhaps the stupidest spelling they could possibly have come up with. Why not just use Dark? Anyway, he's sounds like a very generic techie character. Not a serious threat, which means maybe Laurel can handle him. With help.

[Kromm]

Damien Darhk - http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Damien_Darhk_%28New_Earth%29

It sounds like he's just a name, and an excuse to bring H.I.V.E. to the Arrowverse as their version of H.Y.D.R.A. (with the same kind of agenda and beats, since it's not like the Arrowverse lacked other evil organizations).  

[Morrigan2575]

It sounds like he's just a name, and an excuse to bring H.I.V.E. to the Arrowverse as their version of H.Y.D.R.A. (with the same kind of agenda and beats, since it's not like the Arrowverse lacked other evil organizations).

it's totally possible that Damien Darhk is just a fake name, they picked an obscure character to cover the real character. They did something similar using a name connected with Ted Kord (Daniel) for Ray Palmer (back when they planned on having Blue Beatle on the show).

[jay741982]

Damien Darhk - http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Damien_Darhk_(New_Earth)

Watch him be Felicitys Dad AND the one who had Andy Diggle Killed. Felicity and Diggle are getting bigger story next season per MG

[AyChihuahua]

EBR's bicep chariot picture, btw...totally the guys showing her some love after a tough day filming Felicity's death scene.  

 

Temporary death.

 

On the other hand, CH seems to be somewhere other than Vancouver, so who knows.

 

https://instagram.com/p/z52zvojTIz/?modal=true

Edited March 7, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[wonderwall]

EBR's bicep chariot picture, btw...totally the guys showing her some love after a tough day filming Felicity's death scene.  

 

Temporary death.

DON'T PLAY WITH MY HEART LIKE THIS :p

[SmallScreenDiva]

Caught some chatter among fans on Twitter and I'm starting to believe that if there is indeed a death in the present day, it's gonna be Thea. Because what would cause Oliver the most pain at this point? The idea of losing his beloved sister. Isn't that what EPs think about when they want to create drama? What would make their characters most miserable?

 

I don't think it'll be a permanent death, though (she's getting a mask, after all). I think this is where the Lazarus Pit will come into play. There's been a lot of focus on Thea during the back half of this season. This could be the payoff for her storyline. Depends on what the show does with the LP, it could be a means of redemption, a rebirth of sorts that would wash away her sin (of killing Sara). She emerges from the pit, et voila -- insta-hero with a costume and mask.

 

We've mentioned madness in relation to the LPs, but I haven't seen any indication Ra's is particularly bonkers, except for the whole job offer to Oliver. So I'm not worried that it would change Thea or whoever goes in that way.

[wingster55]

Caught some chatter among fans on Twitter and I'm starting to believe that if there is indeed a death in the present day, it's gonna be Thea.

 

Boy I hope not.

 

Temporary? That'll be acceptable.

[Chaser]

I've just about convinced myself Felicity is dying and that both excites and terrifies me. Excites me because it could put Felicity back in the A-plot and terrifies the part of me that ignores logic and doesn't trust the Eps to make it temporary. 

 

This death really has me curious. They are talking it up but they called 3x18 the game-changer. Wouldn't a death in Team Arrow be the biggest game-changer? Granted they use the word way to freely. 

[AyChihuahua]

I honestly think it's hard to tell which death would hurt him more, Felicity or Thea.  However, I'm okay with him choosing to join the LOA to LP either of them.  That's actually the only way I'd be okay with our hero agreeing to become the leader of a group of paid murderers.  The reasons I lean towards Felicity are the parallel with Malcolm's wife's death turning him into a killer, and the near-total lack of Olicity this year.  I feel like they'd want to end the season with a big Olicity note.

 

I'm really still not even convinced Ra's is the bad guy.  I cannot figure for the life of me what's going to happen in 21-23.  

 

ETA Guggie called both 18 and 19 game changers.  Dude needs a thesaurus.  I'm thinking 18 is a game-changer in that the city/Quentin comes after TA, hard.  

Edited March 7, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[statsgirl]

Thea or Felicity?  This season, ever since Sara died, Oliver has been all about connecting with and saving his sister, so that argues Thea.
 
On the other hand. he has been All About Thea this season and pushing Felicity away so Felicity's 'death' should (would?) hit him hard and that could be a game-changer.  If 320 would be a game-changing episode, which apparently it isn't.

[AyChihuahua]

 

On the other hand. he has been All About Thea this season and pushing Felicity away so Felicity's 'death' should (would?) hit him hard and that could be a game-changer.

Especially if Malcolm is the one who kills Felicity, then he could have a nice juicy angstburger to chew on for repeatedly saving Malcolm and working with him.  (I don't believe Malcolm would murder Thea.)

[BkWurm1]

Caught some chatter among fans on Twitter and I'm starting to believe that if there is indeed a death in the present day, it's gonna be Thea. Because what would cause Oliver the most pain at this point? The idea of losing his beloved sister. Isn't that what EPs think about when they want to create drama? What would make their characters most miserable?

 

I don't think it'll be a permanent death, though (she's getting a mask, after all). I think this is where the Lazarus Pit will come into play. There's been a lot of focus on Thea during the back half of this season. This could be the payoff for her storyline. Depends on what the show does with the LP, it could be a means of redemption, a rebirth of sorts that would wash away her sin (of killing Sara). She emerges from the pit, et voila -- insta-hero with a costume and mask.

 

I lean Thea over Felicity because when it comes to Oliver's actions, Felicity has not factored into any of them so why should I start hoping for it now?

[statsgirl]

Because it's time?  They can't leave Oliver so disconnected from Felicity over the summer.

Especially if Malcolm is the one who kills Felicity, then he could have a nice juicy angstburger to chew on for repeatedly saving Malcolm and working with him.  (I don't believe Malcolm would murder Thea.)

Niiiice.  And it provides a little bit of justification for writing Oliver protecting Malcolm all season.

[Chaser]

I know we are supposed to think Thea has been/is in this great danger, but honestly I never felt it. 

[jay741982]

If Malcolm were to kill Felicity I wonder how he would do it? Stab her? Shoot her? Maybe an accident? I could see Felicity stumbling onto Malcolms real agenda, Then he finds out and shoots her right intime for Oliver Dig Roy and Laurel to see it. Oliver Snaps,Kills Malcolm, then Felicity dies in his arms after saying I love you(you know MG would do it!). End Episode 19. Episode 20, beyond devastated and Heartbroken Oliver contacts Ra's accepts Being New Ra's to LP Felicity.

[Starfish35]

I just had a thought. If the foundry is blowing up in 319, and it seems like it is, all of the costumes are going to be destroyed. So maybe that's what SA's photo was about. No more costumes for the rest of the season, and everyone gets new costumes in season four.

Speaking of the explosion, I think it'll probably happen at the end of the episode, and people will be caught inside, and that's why at the beginning of 320 Oliver is rushing through the hospital.

Who those people are? I don't know. I'm still leaning toward the Roy dies theory (although I'm coming around to it being Malcolm) but even if he dies, that doesn't rule out other people (Thea, Felicity) being critically injured in the explosion. Maybe Laurel too, I don't know. KC is still apparently in LA, so I don't know what that might mean for Laurel being in this episode.

The reason I lean toward it not being Felicity that is injured or (temporarily) killed, is that evidence seems to point toward her being in the hospital (as a patient) in 318. So to redo that beat again just a couple of episodes later seems a bit redundant, even for these writers.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Starfish35

[catrox14]

I'm just gonna call him Donnie Darko and hope he wears a weird rabbit suit.

[tv echo]

Since it seems like Thea is getting a mask as well, is she going to be a hero or a villain?  I'm assuming 'hero'.  But then there was MG's spoiler about how there would be 3 additional superheroes at the end of this season.  Thea would make 4.  

 

So that would point to one of the following being killed or not there at the end of this season for some reason - Roy/Arsenal, Laurel/BC, Ray/Atom, Thea/?.

Edited March 7, 2015 by tv echo

[Nagevs]

They can't leave Oliver so disconnected from Felicity over the summer.

 

 

I guess that would depend on what MG’s real intentions are in regards to Oliver and Felicity ever having a romantic relationship on the show. If what he’s done with them so far this season is any indication my guess would be he’d have no problem ending the season with them on a cliffhanger that would require you having to buy the 3.5 comics for any sort of resolution.

[wonderwall]

Because it's time?  They can't leave Oliver so disconnected from Felicity over the summer.

 

I think you're right. If they're disconnected over the summer it'll just leave a bad taste in my mouth. I don't want them to be together by the end of this season. But what I DO want is for them to come to an understanding leaving things hopeful between them. Then next season I want them to rebuild their relationship (maybe half of the first season) and THEN probably get together. 

 

I'm tired of the lack of communication/ forced drama. Season 3 was about breaking everything: every character's life, sanity, humanity, logic, relationships, and in Felicity's case, standards. Hopefully season 4 will be about rebuilding what we lost in season 3. 

Edited March 7, 2015 by wonderwall

[jay741982]

C'mon MG if Laurel being Fasttracked to BC is realistic, surely Felicity can do the Salmon ladder ! Of Course his favourite Olicity Moment is the end of 312

[romantic idiot]

He's not wrong though. I hated how they got to it, but I thought it was a pretty powerful scene.

[BkWurm1]

I don't understand in what context Felicity or even Olicity could be blamed if Roy did indeed die. His death doesn't prop or further either. I don't want him to die but I if he did I understand man pain for Oliver, woman pain for Thea, meta propping for Laurel and even general team pain, but how would or could his death aid Felicity or the goodship Olicity?

C'mon MG if Laurel being Fasttracked to BC is realistic, surely Felicity can do the Salmon ladder !

I want her interacting with the ladder but I wouldn't expect her to do it. Same for Laurel. Maybe Felicity can decorate it next Hanukkah or toss a wreath on it. Or, lol, hang a nice dress on it. ;)

[jay741982]

I don't understand in what context Felicity or even Olicity could be blamed if Roy did indeed die. His death doesn't prop or further either. I don't want him to die but I if he did I understand man pain for Oliver, woman pain for Thea, meta propping for Laurel and even general team pain, but how would or could his death aid Felicity or the goodship Olicity?

I want her interacting with the ladder but I wouldn't expect her to do it. Same for Laurel. Maybe Felicity can decorate it next Hanukkah or toss a wreath on it. Or, lol, hang a nice dress on it. ;)

Yeah Roy dying to Prop Olicity or to save Diggle and Felicity makes no sense. It's just someone who only want COMICS. I wouldn't mind Felicity interacting with Sally by putting her dress on it before a hookup with Oliver lol

[quarks]

I tend to agree that a Roy death would affect Thea a lot more than Felicity, but the idea behind that is that Roy and Laurel, not Felicity and Diggle, should be Oliver's fighting partners. It's another "because comics" thing, and to a certain extent a reaction to "go back to Original Team Arrow" arguments, since Roy wasn't in that group.

[jay741982]

And I can see her Decorating for Hanukkah as well

[wonderwall]

I tend to agree that a Roy death would affect Thea a lot more than Felicity, but the idea behind that is that Roy and Laurel, not Felicity and Diggle, should be Oliver's fighting partners. It's another "because comics" thing, and to a certain extent a reaction to "go back to Original Team Arrow" arguments, since Roy wasn't in that group.

Having Roy on the team is kind of like having OG3 team arrow though because Roy basically never says anything or does anything of significance, at least that's how it was in season 2 and the first half of season 3... So I don't mind Roy being on the team. 

[BkWurm1]

Roy was brought in to the team right. He got a great intro to them. Then, lol they totally dropped the ball for way too long, but I think he belongs. He was invited and proved himself over time...and often just stands in the background looking pretty. What's not to like?

[catrox14]

I can't see narrative reason to kill off Roy. Maybe it's more of a real world reason, re budgets and such. Maybe Colton is do for a raise so kill him off.  But I don't see any purpose to Roy's death.

 

 

--Thea has motivation to become Speedy either good or bad just by virtue of wanting vengeance on Malcolm and Slade  or she might want to right Malcolm's wrongs just like Oliver with Robert. I think either of those would be far more compelling reasons than Roy's death.

 

--Oliver would be upset but he's already a vigilante and his reasons for going Ra's Ollie Ghul have nothing to do with Roy. I don't see Roy's death as propelling Oliver forward at all.  It would just be another layer of guilt for Oliver and even then Oliver might not feel all that guilty about especially if Roy dies heroically because that is a risk all of Team Arrow accepts.

 

--Roy's death wouldn't propel Felicity to Ray because Oliver's shenanigans already did that. Roy's death wouldn't propel Felicity to don a mask. And she is OGTA.

 

Roy's death would serve only to make room for Laurel and/or Thea to join Team Arrow.

 

I just can't see any other reason for him to die.

 

ETA: None of that is to say they still won't kill him off. :(

Edited March 7, 2015 by catrox14

[quarks]

 and the near-total lack of Olicity this year.  I feel like they'd want to end the season with a big Olicity note.

 

 

Responding to this in the Relationships thread.

[Scribbles]

I can't see narrative reason to kill off Roy.  ...   But I don't see any purpose to Roy's death.

 

I agree.  Roy actually plays a key narrative link in several ways.  In order to have Diggle with a baby/wife and an example to Oliver of emotionally healthy living, Roy being Oliver's up close in the field partner frees Diggle to be the shotcaller/eyes on the ground on the scene at a safer distance with a less direct risk.  Also, Roy gives lots of opportunity for Oliver to express character growth.  As Oliver teaches/mentors Roy, Oliver has to evaluate what doing what they do means and requires.  To teach something well you have to work on mastering it yourself.  Roy is a counter to Oliver, rich/poor, family/loner and so on.

 

I am still not sure why the spoilers force a choice of which team Arrow member dies. 

[catrox14]

 

I am still not sure why the spoilers force a choice of which team Arrow member dies.

 

I don't understand what you mean. Can you elaborate?

Edited March 7, 2015 by catrox14

[Morrigan2575]

Since it seems like Thea is getting a mask as well, is she going to be a hero or a villain? I'm assuming 'hero'. But then there was MG's spoiler about how there would be 3 additional superheroes at the end of this season. Thea would make 4.

So that would point to one of the following being killed or not there at the end of this season for some reason - Roy/Arsenal, Laurel/BC, Ray/Atom, Thea/?.

when did he say that?

[Scribbles]

I don't understand what you mean. Can you elaborate?

1. Someone 2. Will 3. Die does not have to be someone on team Arrow, it doesn't even have to be someone in the present.

2.  SA's twitter about saying goodbye is in line with the gracious way he has noted others coming and going on the cast overall. 

3.  CH's twitter didn't mention death.  The foundry exploding and all that would be needed from an actor to go with it could make for a very emotional/long day.

4.  The photo of BC/Arsenal/Arrow can mean a lot of things when talking last time for something

5.  Gamechanging does not have to equal death

If I have missed a spoiler let me know.

[ban1o]

1. Someone 2. Will 3. Die does not have to be someone on team Arrow, it doesn't even have to be someone in the present.

2.  SA's twitter about saying goodbye is in line with the gracious way he has noted others coming and going on the cast overall. 

3.  CH's twitter didn't mention death.  The foundry exploding and all that would be needed from an actor to go with it could make for a very emotional/long day.

4.  The photo of BC/Arsenal/Arrow can mean a lot of things when talking last time for something

5.  Gamechanging does not have to equal death

If I have missed a spoiler let me know.

Yeah don't necessarily think it's someone on the team. 

[Morrigan2575]

I thought it was Lance but that doesn't seem to be right, so now I'm focused on Malcolm. The other probable death is Akiko (which is really horrible) but since there was a Tatsu/Oliver flashback filmed last night, it seems she's safe for now (she'll have to disappear for awhile so the actress can film her pilot).

[wonderwall]

It's been spoiled that the death was an emotionally draining one and that episode 20 is an emotional episode too. So that rules out Malcolm. The only person that could possibly get an emotional reaction (that isn't joy) from the audience is Quentin, even then I don't think that Quentin's death would make an episode as emotional as a member of Team Arrow's death which is why I'm ruling out Quentin. So really, there could be two options: 

 

Felicity

Roy

 

Felicity's death would probably have the most impact on Oliver while Roy's death would have the most impact on Thea (who then gets inspired to don a mask). Felicity would obviously be resurrected (because her dying permanently is ridiculous), whereas Roy dying could be more permanent... hmm

Edited March 7, 2015 by wonderwall

[Belinea]

Maybe the suits will be gone by 3x19 and that what SA meant in his photo tag about capturing something for the last time. I just cannot image that they'd kill off Felicity. I mean I can see them doing it but I am not sure that would be beneficial for the show at all because frankly the show doesn't work without her. (IMO) 

Maybe someone will die for a few minutes and not leave permanently? I don't know. It is very confusing. But what could hurt more than Moira or Tommy? IMO, Diggle and Felicity but I cannot fathom why they'd want to go there for dramatic effect. I have to admit that it would be hard for me to watch the show without Diggle or Felicity while I could live without Roy and Quention. It would still be stupid but I could still watch the show. Without Diggle and/or Felicity, I don't think I'd want to tune in. And I don't want to tune in to crazy resurrected Felicity or Diggle either.

 

As for Sara, I was listening to a podcast today and the Pit was mentioned to work even after one year of being dead. Apparently the longer you've been dead the crazier you might come out. So there might still be a Sara resurrection possible. 

[ban1o]

I don't know Marc Guggenheim answered a question on tumblr that directly talked about Roy dying.I don't think he would do that if Roy actually was dying. And no way on earth are Felicity and Diggle dying so IDK. Unless who ever dies is just temporary. 

Edited March 7, 2015 by ban1o

[Scribbles]

It's been spoiled that the death was an emotionally draining one and that episode 20 is an emotional episode too.

SA watching a kid die would be "hard" and "emotional" "even if it is scripted" (see his tweet).

 

The death MG notes in ep. 3-19 can happen to anyone, and with the foundry explosion you can get another basket of emotion from everyone if Felicity is critical in the hosptial.  Think about the parallels .... ep.1 on the date Oliver wanted to share about his Hong Kong experience and was talking about not seeing people as people.  Ep 19 his flashback shows Akio dying, a kid he couldn't help but see as people and felt great affection/tenderness for amist being lost from his home/family.  Felicity gets hurt in critical condition in the explosion...Oliver is going to relive seeing a "person" he feels affectionate and tender with being in peril.  The ability to show onscreen just how Oliver grew so cold and wants so much to regain feeling is rich.  Felicity hanging on to life barely also parallels with his fall, as he is begging her to cling to life he has to examine why he needs to live as well.

[wonderwall]

SA watching a kid die would be "hard" and "emotional" "even if it is scripted" (see his tweet).

 

Ah but the death of the kid wouldn't affect Roy would it? Because CH said it was a draining day of shooting for him as well. 

[KirkB]

May it wouldn't be for Roy but it could have been for Colton.

[catrox14]

1. Someone 2. Will 3. Die does not have to be someone on team Arrow, it doesn't even have to be someone in the present.

2.  SA's twitter about saying goodbye is in line with the gracious way he has noted others coming and going on the cast overall. 

3.  CH's twitter didn't mention death.  The foundry exploding and all that would be needed from an actor to go with it could make for a very emotional/long day.

4.  The photo of BC/Arsenal/Arrow can mean a lot of things when talking last time for something

5.  Gamechanging does not have to equal death

If I have missed a spoiler let me know.

 

Oh sure it doesn't have to mean those things. But I think there is enough out there to spark speculation.

 

I don't recall SA being quite as 'verklempt' for lack of a better word about  "minor" character deaths in the same way he has been about Moira, Tommy, Sara and whoever this is (unless he's trolling and it is about the Foundry getting destroyed, which would be hilarious).

 

Unless I've missed something, I don't think we've had another major character death this season since Sara.Oliver doesn't count because he's not really most sincerely dead. I don't even know if Ted Grant is dead or not LOL. But I don't consider him even a minor character. To me it seems likely that someone important will die. So assuming someone important dies, we have

 

potential meatsuits in

Slade

Malcolm

Roy

Detective Lance

Thea (not likely she's getting a mask)

Felicity

Maseo and his family (prolly his son) so like others have said would be a tough scene to have a child's death.

Diggle (not likely because that would just be sick and wrong and he's marrying Lyla)

Baby Sara ( they are not going to kill a baby. )

 

minor characters that I doubt SA would be so emotional over

Vertigo

Brick

 

Characters that will NEVER die because the universe hates me and does not want me to be happy

Laurel

Ray

Edited March 7, 2015 by catrox14

[dtissagirl]

I don't know Marc Guggenheim on tumblr that directly talked about Roy dying.

 

I can't help but think that if it IS Roy, then this is coming from above MG's pay grade. Either DC wanting Roy on Titans, or the CW realizing Colton's eleventy billion social media followers is not bringing the returns they wanted. And then oh yes, I can definitely see them vaguely spoiling a death online because they're butthurt.

Edited March 7, 2015 by dancingnancy

[statsgirl]

Thea has lots of motivation to become Speedy without Roy's death, but death seems to be the only way these EPs seem to think someone can be motivated.  Even Felicity was motivated into ther pink shirts and pencil skirts by Cooper's death.

 

Roy on the Team is like OG3 because he fits in so well. Thea might too. Laurel, on the other hand, doesn't.  Like Merlyn she sticks out and makes the scene about her rather than about the crusade or the fighting.

 

If Malcolm were to kill Felicity I wonder how he would do it? Stab her? Shoot her? Maybe an accident? I could see Felicity stumbling onto Malcolms real agenda, Then he finds out and shoots her right intime for Oliver Dig Roy and Laurel to see it.

I like it, if only for the idea that Malcolm actually has a real agenda instead of this half-assed impossible plan to get Oliver to kill Ra's..

 

 If what he’s done with them so far this season is any indication my guess would be he’d have no problem ending the season with them on a cliffhanger that would require you having to buy the 3.5 comics for any sort of resolution.

I can see him thinking that, another mistake assumption to add to the rest he's made this year because if Oliver and Felicty are still apart, I'm not buying the comics.

 

Maybe Felicity can decorate it next Hanukkah or toss a wreath on it. Or, lol, hang a nice dress on it. ;)

Can you see Oliver's hoffified face at the violation of Sally?  It's time for some humor to be brought back into the lair.

[Morrigan2575]

Ah but the death of the kid wouldn't affect Roy would it? Because CH said it was a draining day of shooting for him as well.

Doesn't mean they were talking about the same thing, could have been two different scenes filmed.

Is it possible that they were filming a scene together? Certainly. It's also possible that they filmed independently.

Also keep in mind CH said 220 was the hardest episode he's filmed (until recently) so what he as an actor perceives and emotional difficult doesn't necessarily equate to what an audience perceives.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Morrigan2575