Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Password]

Men I won't lie I was waiting for something more. But if they release the news over the next few months OK. Something exciting for Laurel. Felicity must be a pudding cup for all the excitement in her life. I heard Felicity married Ed Raymond. That should be fun.

[statsgirl]

Matt let me down, along with AK and MG.  I don't care so much about Felicity's backstory, what I want to see is her  having a current storyline that's all about her and not as a love interest to the next male superhero she has to prop.  Maybe there's hope in the storyline that she has with Roy.

 

Maybe Ed Raymond really is her father?

Ed who?  (kidding)

 

I hope you're wrong because I wouldn't like that at all.  If they're going to make Felicity's father someone out of the comics, then let it be someone worth writing about.  Sara gets the LoA, Thea gets the Dark Archer as her father, Laurel is possibly being trained by the Wildcat and Ra's al Ghul is hovering in the background but all Felicity gets is a character so minor character he isn't even in wikipedia?  That would be shafting her character yet again.

I thought last year was Laurel's trip to the island?

The EPs probably thought so too.  That was probably the plan .... and then there was the execution.

 

Marc Guggenheim:  “One of the things we’re most excited about is Laurel’s story. Everything that we’ve been gearing up for, for the last 46 episodes, will come to fruition”

 

Yeah, and I have a bridge in Florida that I just bought.   I'm not surprised that they're pushing Laurel, especially in a legal role, because this season may be the last kick at the can to save Laurel since KC's contract is up at the end of it.  I wouldn't be surprised at all if at the end, she turns out to be Manhunter and the EPs are all "yeah, this is what we were going for all along, fooled ya!"

 

They want new writers because they played KC and DC comis very dirty.

That's kind of funny.  These are the writers that made Arrow into a substantial TV show and away from the CWs Gossip Girl image and made Arrow a better reviewed show than Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.  I doubt they're going to be replaced.

 

AK says a seven-eight months time jump. That's a little odd - there's only five months between finale and premiere. Maybe he misspoke, or maybe it'll be made up later. Assuming he did not misspeak, however, that changes the timeline for Lyla's pregnancy considerably. She'd be just about to have the baby when the season starts (how far along was she in the finale?).

She wasn't showing (Diggle didn't know) so no more than four months.  With a seven month time jump, the baby could be 2 months old, leaving out the rush to the maternity ward (which is a very good thing) and jumping into Diggle coping with fatherhood and how it affects the other members of the team. Roy could go out and fight with Oliver but who will be the one giving well-thought advice?

Edited July 18, 2014 by statsgirl

[JayKay]

I wish that the new character that MG said is going to make "Laurel fans" happy (agreed on the odd wording there) was Lady Blackhawk. Does it have to be another love interest? Another superdude? Come on, I'd be excited for Lady Blackhawk no matter who she had scenes with. And it would give Laurel a legitimate connection to the hero antics without changing the Team Arrow dynamic. But it'll probably be yet another love interest superhero guy. If all of these spoilers pan out, I'm going to start calling season 3 the Year of the Super Romantic False Leads.

[Orion]

Honestly I don't think they want to add more kickass woman around Laurel. Every time they do it reflects badly on Laurel and her lack of kick assery.

Thanks to everyone finding all these great spoilers.

I am getting a little nervous with how many new people are coming in and the Flash crossovers, this is how they went off the rails last year. To big of a cast, to many people needing development, and trying to build to the end without setting up the foundation. I'm still clinging to SA's this season will be more intimate.

[Pyramid]

If a character needs forty fecking six episodes to set up something interesting to happen then the writers should exhibit no surprise if people have already given up on that character.

And yes to Felicity back story and an even bigger yes to Felicity having a current story line that doesn't involve her orbiting Oliver or propping up another character.

[HighwayFlower]

And I'm depressed again. Wildcat will train her and they will find someway to force her into the Black Canary role, even though Manhunter would suit her better.

[Sakura12]

Finally, we asked Guggenheim about the title of the second episode of Arrow Season 3, which is “Sara.” What does that mean, exactly?

“Sara looms very large in the episode, but that name may have a double meaning,” he teased.

 

Unless Sara is an acronym for something what other meaning could her name have? "The looms very large" and "she plays a big role in the new season" kind seem like they are going with their original plan for Sara and making her one of the villains of the season. With Oliver going after the mercenary that is going around killing people for him to discover it's Sara! 

 

If Felicity's father was Ed Raymond, I would think she would've had a reaction to her brother Ronnie dying in Central City even if she wasn't close to him. That would also mean she knew Caitlin Snow as more than just an employee of Star Labs. So I don't think they are going there with Felicity's story. If Ronnie's found alive by the time she goes over to Flash, they might have a scene with them for comic fans. 

 

Marc Guggenheim:  “One of the things we’re most excited about is Laurel’s story. Everything that we’ve been gearing up for, for the last 46 episodes, will come to fruition”

 

What? That boring useless mess was supposed to be them gearing up for Laurel's storyline? Why are they completely delusional when it comes to that character? 

Edited July 18, 2014 by Sakura12

[FAU]

 

If a character needs forty fecking six episodes to set up something interesting to happen then the writers should exhibit no surprise if people have already given up on that character.

 

And they still can't set up anything interesting with that character, the addiction storyline was supposed to be an important part of her poorly handled character and that was a complete mess.

[JJ928]

Last year MG said they were really excited for Laurel's arc too. I really think they're trying to keep everyone happy, in some way. If you look at what AK said vs MG, it's weird. AK to Tv guide: Laurel, is still just a lawyer. If she becomes this alter-ego, she has a long ways to go. At the end of last season: We will know definitively in the finale who the black canary is.

 

So far nothing feels definitive, it feels like they're going to make it up as they go. I wouldn't be surprised if she's training and it leads to nothing, if she's not received well by the media. I mean, why bring Sara back so soon? They're doing on thing right: people are talking. Whether they're happy or pissed, they're talking. Until I see it on screen, it's all blah, blah, blah.

 

At this point maybe they'll make her Manhunter, but even that would surprise me. It just seems like they're not willing to commit to anything when it come to her character.

 

I hope they're not going to have Felicity's backstory coincide with her Flash cross-over. However, I'll take what I can get. 

Edited July 18, 2014 by JJ928

[BkWurm1]

Finally, we asked Guggenheim about the title of the second episode of Arrow Season 3, which is “Sara.” What does that mean, exactly?

“Sara looms very large in the episode, but that name may have a double meaning,” he teased.

I knew something was up with the title. Hmm,double meaning?

I wouldn't be surprised if they do go the initials route like A.R.G.U.S. I googled Sara just for fun and found the Scientific Applications and Research Associates, the San Antonio River Authority, the Sexual Assault Resource Agency, and the Southeastern Association for Research in Astronomy, without going off page one.

It would be easy to match something to her initials.

Edited July 18, 2014 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

Sara: 

 

 

Frequently, the name refers to Sarah, the wife of Abraham in the Hebrew Bible, the Christian Old Testament, and the Islamic Quran. In Hebrew, it means woman of high rank, often simply translated as "Princess". (In contemporary Israeli Hebrew, "sarah" (שרה) is the word for "woman minister".)

Sara is the usual transliteration of an old Sanskrit word (सार) approximately meaning "essence" or "core", or "speckled" (sâra).[2]

Sarah in Persian (سارا) means, "pure", "excellent" and "honest".

The ideas of 'princess', 'essence' and 'pure'  have possibilities.  Since it's Sanskrit or Farsi, there may be something connected with the LoA.

 

I think it's a hoot that they're talking about Laurel's fans being very happy with what will be happening to her.  It's a good idea to know your target audience.  Have they given up on the rest of us at last?

Edited July 19, 2014 by statsgirl

[Lord Kira]

1. Why are they always most excited about Laurel's story? Why do they keep trying to make her happen? What is it going to take for them to realize that she just isn't working? The writers must really admire the Lana Lang route. 

 

2. I'm already tired of them using Felicity to try and make us care about other heroes. Its old already. These guys can stand on their own. You don't need to have them romance Felicity to make me like them.

 

3. Really happy that Sara is back. I'm hoping to see flashbacks to her time in the LOA, as well as explore her past and current relationship with Nyssa. But that fact that she still lives only makes the fact that Laurel's existence is unnecessary all the more pronounced.

 

4. A Tommy appearance is always fun. It will be interesting to see him as the party-boy again instead of the gruff, dark, sarcastic man he died as.

 

5. Thea is already more qualified to be a crime-fighter than Laurel. I'm looking forward to her story with Malcolm, 

 

6. I don't mind Flash crossovers, even if it is early in the series. After all, Buffy and Angel had some good early crossovers. Spike appeared in Angel's third episode and spiced things up.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Lord Kira

[statsgirl]

Mark Pedowitz, saying pretty much nothing (but it's a little spoilery so I'm putting it here):

 

 

With “Arrow” as an established hit on the net, “The Flash” was introduced as a planted spinoff last spring, and will debut in the fall. “In the world we live in, ‘Flash’ and ‘Arrow’ share a similar universe,” said Pedowitz. “You will see — organically — characters shifting over, villains shifting over back and forth between ‘Flash’ and ‘Arrow.’ We will be introducing more villains that are part of the DC Comics universe.”  

 

As for The CW’s target audience, Pedowitz said he wants to expand beyond the 18-to-34 year-olds. The goal, he said, is to bring in viewers of any age attracted to good programming. “I’m just happy to have viewers.”

The Arrow EPs must be thrilled to have created this universe on CW.  (But The Flash wasn't a planted spinoff last spring, I think, it was planned to but never shown on TV.)

[Chairman Meow]

I won't lie I'm surprised they mentioned Oliver and Felicity's connection since ep 3 and their dance. I thought they were oblivious.

 

I'm feeling very apprehensive about the wording of what he said regarding how they are "honoring" that.  I'm afraid that means that they are going to have them each acknowledge the attraction, but decide that their partnership is too important to risk getting involved with each other, and that for the good of the city, they can't be together. 

 

Somebody tell me I'm being ridiculous!

[apinknightmare]

I'm feeling very apprehensive about the wording of what he said regarding how they are "honoring" that.  I'm afraid that means that they are going to have them each acknowledge the attraction, but decide that their partnership is too important to risk getting involved with each other, and that for the good of the city, they can't be together. 

 

Somebody tell me I'm being ridiculous!

I think that's along the lines of what's going to happen in the first ep, but MG said O/F was going to be a season-long arc, so that won't be the end of it.

[statsgirl]

Coming from a couple of fandoms (NCIS and House) where people who didn't like the ship repeatedly and adamantly said it didn't exist, it's nice to have Guggenheim acknowledge that yes, there is chemistry and attraction between the two characters and the show will be exploring that.

 

I'm afraid that means that they are going to have them each acknowledge the attraction, but decide that their partnership is too important to risk getting involved with each other, and that for the good of the city, they can't be together.

Quite possibly, but if they do, there will be more story to tell later in this season and the next ones.  it is still the start of season three and much too soon to get them together because the alternative is the 'get together/break up/get back together' spinning wheel and I hate that.  I find that "our friendship is too important to risk by getting into a relationship" is usually code for "I'm too scared to try".

 

I'm hoping that Laurel will be happy with her new love interest and she'll finally move on from Oliver..

[abhi]

I think what those who like Oliver/Felicity relationship should be worried about is AK's statements like "Can Oliver have it all?", "Can he have his cake and eat it too?". because for a show like "Arrow" the answer is very obvious "No". Oliver will also have to give up his child by the end of this season. 

 

But who knows? Maybe it will play out differently.

[Happy Harpy]

I didn't like the Flash pilot at all, and I don't plan to watch this show so I'm more than annoyed at the multiple crossovers announcements. According to critics, the pilot is the best thing after sliced bread, so I would have thought the Flash wouldn't need Arrow and Felicity to boost it.

 

I thought the EPs had learned their lesson since they were shutting up about Laurel so far. Hyping it doesn't work, over-hyping it creates backlash when it fails to deliver. And I hardly see how the KC/Laurel combination can deliver, since she imo never did once in 46 episodes (thanks for reminding me how long it's been) in spite of everything they've tried -including "meaty" storylines. Well, at least they said "Laurel fans", so they might have understood that they have no chance of convincing the general audience er, non-Laurel fans? (But then, why oh why are they doing it?).

The idea of Laurel being an afterthought, including screentime-wise, sat well with me. More airtime for Laurel = less incentive to watch. And if they do Felicity's backstory on the Flash in order to get more airtime for Cardboard NotCanary on Arrow...

 

I rewatched some Team Arrow scenes last night, and damn, for me this show delivers 200% and is better than anything on TV, when it does what it does best. So I still hope that Diggle/Oliver/Felicity will be front and center and the spoilers about them are kept under wraps. I can take a weekly scene or two of suckitude if I get a very heavy dose of Team Arrow working smoothly without interlopers of any kind and fighting crime and supporting each other and snarking and well, being generally awesome.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Happy Harpy

[stormborn]

I rewatched some Team Arrow scenes last night, and damn, for me this show delivers 200% and is better than anything on TV, when it does what it does best. So I still hope that Diggle/Oliver/Felicity will be front and center and the spoilers about them are kept under wraps. I can take a weekly scene or two of suckitude if I get a very heavy dose of Team Arrow working smoothly without interlopers of any kind and fighting crime and supporting each other and snarking and well, being generally awesome.

 

Team Arrow is definitely the heart and the soul for me as well, original recipe Team Arrow to be specific. And I am a little disheartened to see that there hasn't been any Team Arrow tidbits coming out as of yet but I'm hearing for the 4000th time that Laurel is gonna kick ass this season. 

 

The biggest mistake of the last season though was allowing the Arrow cave to get so crowded that Felicity and Diggle sometimes felt like secondary characters. Also there was just so much going on last season that both Felicity and Digg's character development suffered.

 

I mean, the show needs to seriously start streamlining their arcs and prioritizing their characters cause as fun as crossovers with other shows might be and as mandatory as debuting popular DC super heroes no doubt is; this show is still called "Arrow" and when all's said and done, its Team Arrow that keeps the lights on. So I think the show needs to honor that too. 

Edited July 19, 2014 by stormborn

[Password]

I think all of team Arrow's characters suffered. They kneecapped Oliver so badly during the second half of season 2 that I could barely stand him. If anything I hope they not only develop Felicity and Diggle for the entirety of the season, but I hope they don't decide Oliver needs to regress for plot progression again.

[apinknightmare]

 

I think what those who like Oliver/Felicity relationship should be worried about is AK's statements like "Can Oliver have it all?", "Can he have his cake and eat it too?". because for a show like "Arrow" the answer is very obvious "No". Oliver will also have to give up his child by the end of this season.

 

But who knows? Maybe it will play out differently.

 

Of course it's no. They're straight-up telling us that much. That's the jumping-off point for his character development this season.

 

I don't really think it's anything to worry about though. I think Oliver still sees himself as two people: The Arrow and Oliver Queen. The Arrow has all the confidence in the world now that he's a hero, the city loves him, and he's no longer being hunted by the cops. Oliver Queen? He's a hot mess. Oliver doesn't feel worthy of good things personally, and I think it's probably really easy for him to talk himself out of love (any kind: platonic or romantic). I mean, quite a few things that have gone badly for Arrow have happened because of Oliver Queen (his relationship with Helena and by extension, McKenna getting shot and leaving town, and Felicity getting tied up and threatened; his falling-out with Slade and the aftermath; The Count threatening Felicity because he figured out Oliver is Arrow, etc.).

 

Him asking Felicity out is putting his toe over the line that he's drawn for himself regarding good things in his life. Deep down I think he knows he's not ready, so it should be very easy for him to pull himself back. I think he does genuinely have feelings for Felicity that are beyond friendship, and for a person who's always been selfish and impulsive and hasn't ever had a relationship work out, that's got to be scary. Especially since if he messes it up? He won't just lose a person that's important to him as Oliver, he could lose a person that's important to him as Arrow (I don't think for a second Felicity would leave the team if things didn't work out between her and Oliver romantically). It'll be interesting to see how he deals with his feelings, and what kind of growth they inspire in him as a person.

 

As for giving up his child - I posted my hope for that in the speculation thread yesterday, but I hope the show throws us a curve ball and we find out that Oliver already knows about the kid, but stays away because he knows he wouldn't be a good father at this point in his life (just like he wouldn't be a good boyfriend). I know this is improbable, but I will continue to hope until I can't hope any more.

 

I don't know if the writers are working towards O/F as endgame or what, but I do think they'll be together at the end of the season, or heading in that direction at least. 

Edited July 19, 2014 by apinknightmare

[poetgirl925]

Of course it's no. They're straight-up telling us that much. That's the jumping-off point for his character development this season.

 

I don't really think it's anything to worry about though. I think Oliver still sees himself as two people: The Arrow and Oliver Queen. The Arrow has all the confidence in the world now that he's a hero, the city loves him, and he's no longer being hunted by the cops. Oliver Queen? He's a hot mess. Oliver doesn't feel worthy of good things personally, and I think it's probably really easy for him to talk himself out of love (any kind: platonic or romantic). I mean, quite a few things that have gone badly for Arrow have happened because of Oliver Queen (his relationship with Helena and by extension, McKenna getting shot and leaving town, and Felicity getting tied up and threatened; his falling-out with Slade and the aftermath; The Count threatening Felicity because he figured out Oliver is Arrow, etc.).

 

Him asking Felicity out is putting his toe over the line that he's drawn for himself regarding good things in his life. Deep down I think he knows he's not ready, so it should be very easy for him to pull himself back. I think he does genuinely have feelings for Felicity that are beyond friendship, and for a person who's always been selfish and impulsive and hasn't ever had a relationship work out, that's got to be scary. Especially since if he fucks it up? He won't just lose a person that's important to him as Oliver, he could lose a person that's important to him as Arrow (I don't think for a second Felicity would leave the team if things didn't work out between her and Oliver romantically). It'll be interesting to see how he deals with his feelings, and what kind of growth they inspire in him as a person.

 

As for giving up his child - I posted my hope for that in the speculation thread yesterday, but I hope the show throws us a curve ball and we find out that Oliver already knows about the kid, but stays away because he knows he wouldn't be a good father at this point in his life (just like he wouldn't be a good boyfriend). I know this is improbable, but I will continue to hope until I can't hope any more.

 

I don't know if the writers are working towards O/F as endgame or what, but I do think they'll be together at the end of the season, or heading in that direction at least.

You know I never considered that Oliver already knew about his child. This show goes for overblown melodrama so much that I guess I just never expect them to be subtle anymore. But I hope you're right. The fact they're continuing (apparently) to go slowly with O and F is surprising when you think how they threw women at him in the past. I don't know how it will develop over the whole season, but I think Felicity having a relationship outside Oliver will be good for her personal growth. I get the feeling she's never had a serious relationship before; lines like "I finally find a guy who's interested" seem to be making that point. I like the comments that she and Routh are funny together, at least. Sounds like with Roy and Ray that we'll see her world expanding. If they're working on Felicity's backstory script now then I guess we'll see it before the break? She's such an unexpectedly strong character that I'm looking forward to getting some context for that. Even if it doesn't come up right away, I think her father will end up being an antagonist of some sort or at least not normal. Having her father abandon her is probably a big hint for that.

I guess we can't be sure the TV Guide quotes about Laurel and Felicity mean anything specific. However, I dkn't think the show will resist going there. I think pushing Laurel and Felicity to be friends too quickly is a mistake. Laurel has never shown any warmth towards Felicity in their few shared scenes. For whatever reason Laurel seemed dismissive every time (think there were four in total?) Depending on how it plays out it could feel disingenuous.

Finally, I think I'm going to laugh forever that they think they're following the Joss Whedon model. Really? Sure they have unexpectedly strong women since no one expects the blonde in leather to beat guys up and Slade was completely blindsided by Felicity. Aside from the fact that that Joss didn't create female characters that were expendable (Shado) for shallow plot reasons and that his female characters were never interchangeable to a man for plot, he created complicated women who weren't weakened by their various complicated circumstances. Sara and Felicity kind of fit this but the sister triangle reflects poorly on Sara and Felicity is not that complicated yet. I guess we'll see how they handle her going forward in season 3 relationships with Oliver and Ray and her backstory. There's also a difference between playing give and take with characters' happiness and torturing them all the time. If Oliver is losing his humanity in the past I expect to see a lighter side in the present for a little balance.

[apinknightmare]

@poetgirl925 : IF the show goes the route of Oliver already knowing about the kid, I definitely think there will be drama. One of the producers mentioned yesterday that Oliver and Digg were going to have some heated moments over Digg's priorities (I can't remember how it was worded), and I think it would be interesting if those came about from Oliver being jealous over Digg having what Oliver knows he missed out on. I really don't want to see some random fighting because Digg wants to spend some time with his child.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Lisin

[dtissagirl]

I think what those who like Oliver/Felicity relationship should be worried about is AK's statements like "Can Oliver have it all?", "Can he have his cake and eat it too?". because for a show like "Arrow" the answer is very obvious "No". Oliver will also have to give up his child by the end of this season. 

 

But who knows? Maybe it will play out differently.

I don't see the answer as "no", I see it as "not yet". He obviously can't have it all or else there'd be no show anymore. Otoh, I love it that the show is threading really carefully with whatever is gonna happen between Oliver and Felicity, because I also think it sounds HORRIBLE if she's just the prize over the rainbow after Oliver's gone through Hero's Journey 101.

[poetgirl925]

@poetgirl925: IF the show goes the route of Oliver already knowing about the kid, I definitely think they'll be drama. One of the producers mentioned yesterday that Oliver and Digg were going to have some heated moments over Digg's priorities (I can't remember how it was worded), and I think it would be interesting if those came about from Oliver being jealous over Digg having what Oliver knows he missed out on. I really don't want to see some random fighting because Digg wants to spend some time with his child.

We all wanted more Diggle and Oliver scenes but heated moments wasn't what I was expecting. If it's over priorities though then it makes sense. Blast Radius might have been Oliver being jealous but I think he also takes Diggle and Felicity for granted to a degree. If he's decided he can't move forward but he's watching them move forward it will probably sting a lot. However I agree it needs to be something better than him just being mad because Diggle is with his family, and I like your scenario a lot better than the show dragging up his philandering yet again or God forbid how it relates to Laurel.

Edited July 19, 2014 by poetgirl925

[quarks]

The laws of network broadcast television are immutable on one point, and one point only, and that is this: show protagonists can only hook up with someone new or take a significant new and major step with a love interest during November, February, and May sweeps.

 

I give you Arrow's previous two seasons to demonstrate:

 

Season one: Oliver makes out with Laurel, November; meets/hooks up with Helena, November; introduces Felicity to the Arrow Cave, February; starts dating McKenna, February; hooks up with Laurel, May; kisses Shado for the first time, May.  

 

Season two: Oliver hooks up with Isabel, November; gives his "because of the life that I lead speech," November (show's first verbal confirmation); hooks up with Sara, February; tells Felicity "I love you," May.

 

So, yeah, I'm expecting Angst and Heartbreak at the end of the first episode because it's October. 

[tv echo]

Lots of spoilers coming out.  I gotta admit it's getting me excited for the new season.

 

With all the possible origin stories in Arrow, I think the EPs have visions of superhero spin-offs (and controlling the DC TV-verse) dancing in their heads.  Since Joss Whedon appears to be their idol, maybe they hope to move up into controlling the DC Movie-verse and become his DC counterpart.

[poetgirl925]

Wow I never really paid attention to when it's happening lol. I guess we'll see hook ups for everyone in November then. It would make sense to move forward with Felicity around that time if Routh is signed for 14 episodes. Maybe if they have enough romance for everyone else to fill their quota Oliver will actually stay single for a while. Flashbacks might be up for grabs though

[doesntworkonwood]

I hope you don't mind me asking, but what are sweeps?

[Sakura12]

Oliver didn't hook up with anyone after Shado died, except for a quick kiss with Sara on the Amazon before she "died" again. So he was pretty much celibate for at least a year.

 

I hope you don't mind me asking, but what are sweeps?

 

Sweeps is a measurement period in the TV world during which Nielsen Media Research (the firm that measures ratings for various media) mails out “diaries” to select households around the country four times a year: February, May, July and November. In theory, the participants record their viewing habits and the results are processed in a specific geographic order, thus “sweeping” through the country.

 

Another, more technologically advanced way of gathering the viewer data is through Set Meters, small devices connected to televisions that gather real-time viewing habits of the home and transmit the information directly to Nielsen every night through the phone line (kind of creepy if you ask me!).

 

But most of us don’t see any of this. What we DO see is TV networks attempting to ramp up their viewership during the sweeps periods with various, shall we say……gimmicks. These are times when your favorite TV shows feature Oscar-winning special guest stars and uber-hyped season and series finales air in all their we promise to answer years of questions and reveal all the island’s secrets glory (hello, LOST fans).

Edited July 19, 2014 by Sakura12

[doesntworkonwood]

Ahhh, we don't have that in the UK...

[Sakura12]

That's why I prefer British shows, the stories just get told we don't have to wait for a certain month to get answers. With US shows we pretty much know that the most exciting and interesting stuff is going to happen in November, February and May. 

Edited July 19, 2014 by Sakura12

[Orion]

I don't think we'll get Oliver and Diggle fighting over Digg wanting to spend more time with the kid and Lyla, I think it will be the opposite. Oliver keeps trying to send Digg home or sideline him to protect him. Diggle will catch on and conflict will ensue, Digg will make the argument that the work he does on Team Arrow is important and helps keep his family safe. Oliver will be on the side that you can't have it all, that you can't fight by my side because if something happens to you how could I explain that to your kid.

I think this season will just be a lot of compare and contrast moments. And the Digg/Oliver conflict over the kid needs to get Oliver to a place where he sees he can have some role in his kids life, hopefully that role will Be off screen and rarely mentioned.

[poetgirl925]

Lots of spoilers coming out.  I gotta admit it's getting me excited for the new season.

 

With all the possible origin stories in Arrow, I think the EPs have visions of superhero spin-offs (and controlling the DC TV-verse) dancing in their heads.  Since Joss Whedon appears to be their idol, maybe they hope to move up into controlling the DC Movie-verse and become his DC counterpart.

I guess they've set up Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey already. I've been thinking about the Osborne casting announcement and they could connect him to Team 7 if they wanted to since he was CIA. Did the casting announcement say CIA? I can't remember. I expect him to be a bad guy but they like playing with our expectations too. Spin offs could be interesting but I'd hate to lose Diggle now that he's been connected to Suicide Squad and I don't think Laurel is a strong enough character to headline her own show. Maybe if people respond as well to Katana as they did to Sara's Canary and they included Sara it would work? Caity Lotz seems too busy to be a full time CW actress.

[Velocity23]

Some happy news! Everybody meet Digs daughter! 

http://instagram.com/p/qnX9JSN5oF/

Edited July 19, 2014 by Velocity23

[Morrigan2575]

Oh wow they spoiled that...I was kind of hoping we'd find out when the show started

[Sakura12]

She's adorable!

 

But I still don't want babies or kids on the show though. Usually they are a last resort type of story when the writers have run out of storylines or the show is ending, not in the beginning of a show's run. 

[poetgirl925]

Cute baby! I guess they're still filming 3.1? Oliver's lost his family but Diggle has gained one.

[Artsda]

 

Oh yes, you can. We spoke with exec producer Marc Guggenheim at a Thursday night CW soiree, where he professed, “One of the things we’re most excited about is Laurel’s story. Everything that we’ve been gearing up for, for the last 46 episodes, will come to fruition” — possibly including that passing of a baton/leather jacket in the season finale. As the season opens,

Oh joy. 

[statsgirl]

That is a cute baby.  I'm glad they're jumping into her already born rather than the mess most shows make of late pregnancy and birth stuff.

 

I hope Laurel and Felicity won't be written to be friends.  For thing, Felicity is Sara's friend not Laurel's, just as Sin is Sara's protege not Laurel's.  (I think Sin would be smart enough to see through Laurel.)  From the comments about Laurel's fans being happy about what's going to happen with her (didn't they say that about last season too?) it's possible that they've realized that the character doesn't work with Team Arrow in the lair as Sara and Roy do and they're going to put her off into her DA bubble rather than in the new cave even if she is wearing leather now.   Saying that what's going to happen with her is has been what has been building up over the past 46 episodes may well be true if she becomes Manhunter, and equally true that it's not what the EPs had in mind originally.

 I think Oliver still sees himself as two people: The Arrow and Oliver Queen. The Arrow has all the confidence in the world now that he's a hero, the city loves him, and he's no longer being hunted by the cops. Oliver Queen? He's a hot mess. Oliver doesn't feel worthy of good things personally, and I think it's probably really easy for him to talk himself out of love (any kind: platonic or romantic). I mean, quite a few things that have gone badly for Arrow have happened because of Oliver Queen (his relationship with Helena and by extension, McKenna getting shot and leaving town, and Felicity getting tied up and threatened; his falling-out with Slade and the aftermath; The Count threatening Felicity because he figured out Oliver is Arrow, etc.).

After all, he does refer to himself in the third person (weirding out Diggle).

 

I like the idea that the Arrow is finally 'together' while Oliver Queen is still a hot mess.  Now that as the Arrow he is a hero rather than a killer, the next step is for Oliver to integrate the two parts of his personality and, as the EPs said, to decide how much of his humanity he wants back.

 

If Oliver feels that he's not okay to be in a relationship with Felicity (we assume from the spoilers), I doubt he'll be wanting custody or even a face-to-face connection with his kid since fatherhood requires a lot more health and emotional availability than being in a relationship.

 

 I think Felicity having a relationship outside Oliver will be good for her personal growth. I get the feeling she's never had a serious relationship before; lines like "I finally find a guy who's interested" seem to be making that point. 

That's the feeling I got too, which is why I don't think Felicity will realize that Oliver likes her when the date fails to come off as it should.  (Such a small word, 'likes' to express their relationship.)  If she did, she wouldn't give up on him so soon as to be going out with Ray by November sweeps.  A guy she likes finally likes her back?  She'd give him time to see if he came around.  This is the Felicity who sat for days by Barry's bedside even though they were both second choices for each other.

[Velocity23]

Emily posted this photo of her and BR

http://instagram.com/p/qpGoR2CKQF/?modal=true

[Happy Harpy]

OMG, this baby is so adorable.

And I don't like babies on TV shows, but it's Diggle's and Lyla's baaaby! -and it seems they'll avoid all the pregnancy and birth clichés-  (Edit: '] I missed your post while writing mine, but yes!) I think it's the first thing about the new season that I'm completely enthusiastic about.

And I don't like domestic cutesy scenes, but here I am: please, please, please give me some "Three Arrows and a baby" scenes with Oliver, Felicity, and Roy having to babysit future Little Miss Snarky McKickass (because with her parents, you know she will be) while Lyla and Diggle have an "operation with Deadshot" storyline.

 

I hope that Oliver and Diggle's disagreement about priorities mean that Oliver pushes Diggle to spend more time with his family. Not only it would be callous and I think, out of character for Oliver to demand otherwise, but for me, it would be an interesting inversion. Women are supposed to lay off their work when they have children, whether they want it or not, so I would like to see a man confronted to this situation.

 

Edit: Does "us" mean that Felicity will be away from Oliver and Diggle? Yeah, it's totally some "everything on the internet is blown out of proportion" reaction, but me not likey.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Happy Harpy

[Password]

Not going going to lie...having lots of fun wondering what Felicity and Ray will get up to. *snickering*

[apinknightmare]

 

That's the feeling I got too, which is why I don't think Felicity will realize that Oliver likes her when the date fails to come off as it should.  (Such a small word, 'likes' to express their relationship.)  If she did, she wouldn't give up on him so soon as to be going out with Ray by November sweeps.  A guy she likes finally likes her back?  She'd give him time to see if he came around.  This is the Felicity who sat for days by Barry's bedside even though they were both second choices for each other.

 

I don't know, with whichever producer it was (GB or AK) saying that we'd sympathize with both Oliver and Felicity's position on things, I get the feeling that after whatever goes wrong on their date or after he asks her on the date and it doesn't come to fruition or whatever happens, they're both going to decide not to pursue it. So I think she will realize that he "likes" her, but that maybe she'll tell him she's not going to wait for him or some other kind of thing. Like EBR said at upfronts, his feelings for her are his issue - she knows there are other fish in the sea. After him telling her he loves her as part of the Slade thing and then asking her out and backing off, I think she'd probably realize that he's not ready, it would only end in heartbreak for her. I don't see it as giving up so much as just getting on with her life when the guy she wants isn't ready for her and for all she knows he won't ever be.

 

I think that it will be an eye-opening experience for both of them. Oliver in that he has feelings for this woman and he needs to mature emotionally before he can pursue them (with her or with anyone), and Felicity in that however heroic Arrow is, Oliver still has a way to go before he could be the guy for her.

 

It could be really interesting if the writers don't mess it up. I'd like to see an introspective Oliver who encourages her to get out and have a life rather than the jealous one who lashed out at her because of Barry (I think he learned from that though).

Emily posted this photo of her and BR

http://instagram.com/p/qpGoR2CKQF/?modal=true

 Aw, they're cute, even angry looking.

[MsSchadenfreude]

 

I get the feeling that after whatever goes wrong on their date or after he asks her on the date and it doesn't come to fruition or whatever happens, they're both going to decide not to pursue it

 

That's the feeling I get as well.  I do not believe that Oliver would be Felicity's first serious relationship at all. I think she's had relationships in the past and has enough experience to recognize that whatever feelings there may be between her and Oliver, it's not happening (at least for now) and she'll accept that and move on.

 

Given that picture, I also don't think Felicity is running right into Ray's arms. It seems there may be a little friction between them at first.

[JayKay]

Emily posted this photo of her and BR

http://instagram.com/p/qpGoR2CKQF/?modal=true

Hmm, he looks suspicious and she looks frustrated haha. But it's always reassuring to see the cast getting along.

[Sakura12]

I kind of wish they'd stop introducing male love interests and started introducing some women so we can their friendships. It seems like they cut a couple of Felicity/Sara scenes, they had one with them near Sara's motorcycle and another with them holding hands after Sara got hurt. 

 

Having Laurel suddenly be Felicity's friend isn't going to work since now it will look like it's "Oh, you're more than just the help, I guess I can be friendly with you" That was them spending 46 episodes making Laurel look like an entitled bitch. 

 

While seeing Roy and Felicity interacting would be nice mostly because of Colton and EBR IRL. I'd rather see how Felicity and Lyla get along. 

Edited July 19, 2014 by Sakura12

[FurryFury]

I kind of wish they'd stop introducing male love interests and started introducing some women so we can their friendships.

 

I think with time, all CW shows become more and more about romance. I mean, in the first season of Nikita, the main relationship was the awesome bond between two female characters, kind of mentor/mentee or older sister/younger sister. It was a unique and fleshed-out relationship, the heart of the show. But with every new season, they got less and less screen time together, while their relationships with love interests became more and more prominent, even despite it wasn't anywhere as interesting. By the last season (in which they hooked one of the girls with a male character she had basically no scenes with before solely due to fan demand), I was severely disappointed.

 

It's also far from the only example, too. The Vampire Diaries was actually watchable and even occasionally interesting in the first two seasons, until it became all about romantic relationships, all the time. I'm dreading the same will happen to The 100 (not that it's particularly good anyway), and I already see signs the same will happen to Arrow. Endless new love interests, artificial extension of Olicity will-they-or-won't-they...

Edited July 19, 2014 by FurryFury

[Sakura12]

I think with time, all CW shows become more and more about romance. I mean, in the first season of Nikita, the main relationship was the awesome bond between two female characters, kind of mentor/mentee or older sister/younger sister. It was a unique and fleshed-out relationship, the heart of the show. But with every new season, they got less and less screen time together, while their relationships with love interests became more and more prominent, even despite it wasn't anywhere as interesting. By the last season (in which they hooked one of the girls with a male character she had basically no scenes with before solely due to fan demand), I was severely disappointed.

 

It's also far from the only example, too. The Vampire Diaries was actually watchable and even occasionally interesting in the first two seasons, until it became all about romantic relationships, all the time. I'm dreading the same will happen to The 100 (not that it's particularly good anyway), and I already see signs the same will happen to Arrow. Endless new love interests, artificial extension of Olicity will-they-or-won't-they...

 

That's probably why I can't quit Pretty Little Liars despite how pointless that show has become. It's about 4 female friends and even though the love interests are slowly taking over that show too, they throw in a couple of scenes with just the girls so I keep watching. Plus with that show the female characters are the only interesting characters on the whole show.

 

I stopped watching TVD after season 2 and it looks like that might be happening with Arrow too. I don't care about ships I want to see interesting character development. I don't think everyone getting a love interest is going to accomplish that. I'll watch the first few episodes but if I don't find anyone that interests me, I'll need to find a new show to watch.

[Password]

Love Interests have their place. It's nice to see a pay off for long awaited relationships, but I think the problem comes in when the romance takes over the show. As Jennifer Crusie points out, take Leverage for example, the show was always about the next job (big or small), then how the team works together and somewhere in there the romance for Nate and Sophie and Parker and Hardison.

 

At no point did it seem like the romance took over the show and we still got to see the characters grow and interact with one another. It's all fine and good that Oliver acknowledges he has feelings for Felicity of the more than platonic kind, but there's so much else going on in his life that it would be a hindrance to him growing out of being emotionally cut off. I hope that's the way this season goes and it's not just about romance relationships, but every other kind of relationship I'm invested in too because at no point have I felt that Arrow is about romance.

 

I don't mind Felicity having a love interest, simply because I want to see her have a life away from Oliver and I care for her as a character.

 

Big up to Diggle and Lyla's baby whoop whoop!!

Edited July 19, 2014 by ArrowLimbo