Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Mary0360]

30 minutes ago, Trisha said:

It's nuts but they legitimately had one of the best season finales ever last night. I can barely believe it myself. 

The person who wrote that article also was responsible for writing the Olicity are the worst for interrupting WestAllen wedding article, so I don't really put much stock in her garbage opinions. As soon as I saw her name under the headline I closed the window without even reading it ?‍♀️

[Primal Slayer]

But this is where MG & WM should've come in, they should looking over these scripts and making sure that they make sense, that the characters make sense...like unless those two step up their game, a new set of writers isnt going to help that much.

[Chaser]

Has Vertigo ever changed what the victim is wearing? I thought they just saw crazy stuff. 

Im trying to figure out how Oliver gets into his old suit. 

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Has Vertigo ever changed what the victim is wearing? I thought they just saw crazy stuff. 

Im trying to figure out how Oliver gets into his old suit. 

The drug has been tinkered with so this could just be another side effect of an upgraded vertigo.

[Belinea]

5 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

But this is where MG & WM should've come in, they should looking over these scripts and making sure that they make sense, that the characters make sense...like unless those two step up their game, a new set of writers isnt going to help that much.

Totally agree with you there. It is easy to blame only the writers but usually a showrunner should make sure that everything is being done the way he or she wants it to. 

[way2interested]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

.like unless those two step up their game, a new set of writers isnt going to help that much

I'm still wondering if Beth is getting pushed up to make up for them if they are both being stretched too much.

[Mary0360]

8 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Has Vertigo ever changed what the victim is wearing? I thought they just saw crazy stuff. 

Im trying to figure out how Oliver gets into his old suit. 

I'm assuming the drug makes Oliver experience alternate realities or visions and we are just seeing Oliver how he sees himself. Sort of like the drug version of the Alien brain washing mind warp in the 100th. 

 

I dont not know it's definitely weird. 

[way2interested]

So, just to put another theory into the hat for 622, but I randomly asked one not-privy to spoilers friend what he thought might go down given what's going on (big Felicity episode in 622, maybe involving Diaz, also involving angst), and his immediate thought was that Diaz was going to try to get Felicity to do something in turn for either dropping the charges on Oliver or getting Oliver out of prison if he ends up arrested or even threatening to do something worse to him, matching up with the kind of blackmailing/threatening shtick Diaz was pushing on Roy, the DA, the police captain, etc. Made me wonder if it would go down that way and it's just the angst swapped around, at least for the episode.

Edited April 10, 2018 by way2interested

[Primal Slayer]

[bethy]

[apinknightmare]

I’m disappointed he didn’t use my favorite hashtag. 

[Angel12d]

No pink smoke? I'm sad.

49 minutes ago, way2interested said:

So, just to put another theory into the hat for 622, but I randomly asked one not-privy to spoilers friend what he thought might go down given what's going on (big Felicity episode in 622, maybe involving Diaz, also involving angst), and his immediate thought was that Diaz was going to try to get Felicity to do something in turn for either dropping the charges on Oliver or getting Oliver out of prison if he ends up arrested or even threatening to do something worse to him, matching up with the kind of blackmailing/threatening shtick Diaz was pushing on Roy, the DA, the police captain, etc. Made me wonder if it would go down that way and it's just the angst swapped around, at least for the episode.

I considered this idea, too. But then would it get Felicity in trouble?

[statsgirl]

It's very close to last year when Felicity had to hack a drone (?) to save Susan, and then get Cayden James out of ARGUS to save Oliver.

[Chaser]

Maybe Felicity finds something and Diaz goes after her to get it? I wouldn’t mind Felicity being on her own, running from/facing off with Diaz while Oliver tries to get to her. 

It occurred to me earlier that this is the episode that sets up the finale. The fact that is could be a big Felicity episode is exciting. I want that to mean good things.

[way2interested]

52 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

But then would it get Felicity in trouble?

I guess not, but then again what struck me with this is a kind of confusion I have at how an episode can be a "big Felicity" episode but then have the "she's in danger" angst, if that's what they're doing. 

[Trisha]

3 hours ago, Mary0360 said:

The person who wrote that article also was responsible for writing the Olicity are the worst for interrupting WestAllen wedding article, so I don't really put much stock in her garbage opinions. As soon as I saw her name under the headline I closed the window without even reading it ?‍♀️

Wasn’t just that writer who liked it. Critics are loving it; AV Club gave it an A. And personally I really liked it. They’ve learned to lean into the weird and they don’t care if the plot is silly as long as the character reactions feel legit. The show has turned characters I was always kind of meh on (Sara, Ray) into ones I love. I even got a little chocked up by Damien Darhk last night! 

Was there a new Arrow promo during tonight’s Flash?

[JamieLynn832002]

The only promo I saw during The Flash was the same one that aired last week after the show. It is fairly Olicity heavy but not new.

Edited April 11, 2018 by JamieLynn832002

[Chaser]

7 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I guess not, but then again what struck me with this is a kind of confusion I have at how an episode can be a "big Felicity" episode but then have the "she's in danger" angst, if that's what they're doing. 

Felicity can still save herself in the end. Or is the trope limited?

I think “she’s in danger’ is just the most obvious trope and the show tends to stick to the predictable. 

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Felicity can still save herself in the end. Or is the trope limited?

I think “she’s in danger’ is just the most obvious trope and the show tends to stick to the predictable. 

Weirdly enough her saving herself in the end (although obviously better) is way more obvious and predictable since the show is predominantly against damseling Felicity.

[Chaser]

16 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Wasn’t just that writer who liked it. Critics are loving it; AV Club gave it an A. And personally I really liked it. They’ve learned to lean into the weird and they don’t care if the plot is silly as long as the character reactions feel legit. The show has turned characters I was always kind of meh on (Sara, Ray) into ones I love. I even got a little chocked up by Damien Darhk last night! 

Was there a new Arrow promo during tonight’s Flash?

I love the shade in that tweet.

I tried LOT. And then I tried it again. I can make it through half an episode. It’s just not my cup of tea. I get that people love it because it embraces the silly, makes no sense,  celebrates the ensemble. That’s what LOT does best. That’s not what Arrow does best. Arrow is best when it’s grounded, when the humor is subtle, when it focuses on the core characters. Honestly I get a little frustrated when I hear Arrow should be more like The Flash or LOT because Arrow was changed for these spin offs and it wasn’t good. It’s the Arrowverse but Arrow is treated like the odd one out.

[Trisha]

28 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I tried LOT. And then I tried it again. I can make it through half an episode. It’s just not my cup of tea. I get that people love it because it embraces the silly, makes no sense,  celebrates the ensemble. That’s what LOT does best. That’s not what Arrow does best. Arrow is best when it’s grounded, when the humor is subtle, when it focuses on the core characters. Honestly I get a little frustrated when I hear Arrow should be more like The Flash or LOT because Arrow was changed for these spin offs and it wasn’t good. It’s the Arrowverse but Arrow is treated like the odd one out.

Oh I agree, I don’t think Arrow should try to emulate the other shows very much (especially The Flash, which is a garbage pile this season). But I think the one thing that LoT does well is frequently splitting up the cast into unusual pairing and having scenes with two different characters who don’t always interact with each other. And offer tiny hints that these people are human and are attempting to grab small slices of normalcy whenever they can amid their ridiculous lives. Arrow used to do that well, even if it was just sporatic scenes in Big Belly Burger where a little bit of humanity slipped through. But once they started spawning spin-off shows that were lighter, it was like they felt they had to double down their reputation as “the dark one.” It can feel suffocating. 

[Chaser]

40 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Oh I agree, I don’t think Arrow should try to emulate the other shows very much (especially The Flash, which is a garbage pile this season). But I think the one thing that LoT does well is frequently splitting up the cast into unusual pairing and having scenes with two different characters who don’t always interact with each other. And offer tiny hints that these people are human and are attempting to grab small slices of normalcy whenever they can amid their ridiculous lives. Arrow used to do that well, even if it was just sporatic scenes in Big Belly Burger where a little bit of humanity slipped through. But once they started spawning spin-off shows that were lighter, it was like they felt they had to double down their reputation as “the dark one.” It can feel suffocating. 

I agree about the character interactions, I’m just saying Arrow should focus on their core characters instead of being an ensemble like LOT to improve. 

I think they doubled down on being darker not because of the other shows, but because the critics (and honestly I would say most of the fans) believe the grounded, more mature approach works better for Arrow. Does it get too dark at times? Sure. 

For LOT, it seems they found overdosing the audience on helium works best. Given the reaction from their fans, I would agree.

All I’m saying is what works for one show, may not be the way to improve another. 

[JamieLynn832002]

6 hours ago, Chaser said:

Has Vertigo ever changed what the victim is wearing? I thought they just saw crazy stuff. 

Im trying to figure out how Oliver gets into his old suit. 

In Season 3, it didn't change anybody's clothes but Oliver in the Arrow suit did see his worst fear as Oliver Queen in a suit, so maybe this time it happens in reverse?

[BkWurm1]

18 minutes ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

In Season 3, it didn't change anybody's clothes but Oliver in the Arrow suit did see his worst fear as Oliver Queen in a suit, so maybe this time it happens in reverse?

Last time Oliver going head to head with his drug-induced doppelganger convinced him that he couldn't be in a relationship with Felicity, that he couldn't be the Arrow and Oliver Queen.  I'm going to assume that he comes to the opposite conclusion this time around.  That he's not these different people, they are all part of who he is and who he wants to be.  

Yes, I'm going with optimism tonight.  :D

[tv echo]

16 hours ago, way2interested said:

So, just to put another theory into the hat for 622, but I randomly asked one not-privy to spoilers friend what he thought might go down given what's going on (big Felicity episode in 622, maybe involving Diaz, also involving angst), and his immediate thought was that Diaz was going to try to get Felicity to do something in turn for either dropping the charges on Oliver or getting Oliver out of prison if he ends up arrested or even threatening to do something worse to him, matching up with the kind of blackmailing/threatening shtick Diaz was pushing on Roy, the DA, the police captain, etc. Made me wonder if it would go down that way and it's just the angst swapped around, at least for the episode.

That's interesting. It also makes me wonder if the S2 voiceover about Slade corrupting someone Oliver loves, over a shot of Felicity, was an original plot line that was dropped that season and is now being used this season.

Should be shooting 622 right now...

[Chaser]

I miss Arrow Wednesdays.

[KenyaJ]

Y'all. An actual interview with Emily! IDEK what to do with myself.

Arrow's Emily Bett Rickards: 'Things Get Pretty Emotional' as Felicity and Oliver Digest Diggle's Exit

By Matt Webb Mitovich / April 11 2018

Quote

Adding to the considerable challenge at hand, Oliver — as glimpsed in promos for this week — begins to act out in the wake of this seismic shift within OTA, defying conventional wisdom to launch a high-risk attack on Ricardo Diaz, and with no backup.

“We as people just act out in general when big changes happen in our lives, no matter what it is,” Rickards notes. “Oliver unfortunately has a lot to lose, so acting out is not in his best interests.”

Nor is it in the best interests of his marriage, when his obstinate mindset unexpectedly puts Felicity in the cross hairs. (As Rickards observed above, “words cut deep.”)

Are “Olicity” fans about to brave one of their scariest moments yet? “Yeah, I think so…,” Rickards nods. But, hopefully, all that they have been through until now, and the incredible love that they share, can power the couple through this latest crucible.

“We’re trying to show that heroes have vulnerable and fragile spots as well,” Rickards says, looking at the bigger picture. “Everyone needs help, and that’s the whole point about accepting family and accepting help. That’s the strongest you can be, when you’re able to accept those things. And hopefully that comes across.”

[DeadZeus]

Oliver has beaten Vertigo in his system 3 times as far as i know.

In S1 he was still able to kick the crap out of a group of enemies. Kinda sluggishly but that's what madde it so badass (dno if it was vertigo or another drug)
Then he took out that doctor that inserted Vertigo in him.
Then in S3 Vertigo brought out your biggest fears and he conquered that too.

I'd kinda roll my eyes if Vertigo affects him again in that way.

[way2interested]

Quote

Are “Olicity” fans about to brave one of their scariest moments yet? “Yeah, I think so…,” Rickards nods.

I laughed.

[bijoux]

13 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Y'all. An actual interview with Emily! IDEK what to do with myself.

Arrow's Emily Bett Rickards: 'Things Get Pretty Emotional' as Felicity and Oliver Digest Diggle's Exit

By Matt Webb Mitovich / April 11 2018

This article reminds me of how easily Dig breaking off with Felicity is sometimes played. He apparently did so vicariously now as he did at the beginning of S4 due to a disagreement with Oliver. And he was definitely Oliver’s friend first during his blue spiral in S3. I don’t for a second believe this is how it’s meant to come off, but at times like these Felicity feels maybe not insignificant to Dig, but less than I would like and less than I perceive her to be.

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, bijoux said:

This article reminds me of how easily Dig breaking off with Felicity is sometimes played. He apparently did so vicariously now as he did at the beginning of S4 due to a disagreement with Oliver. And he was definitely Oliver’s friend first during his blue spiral in S3. I don’t for a second believe this is how it’s meant to come off, but at times like these Felicity feels maybe not insignificant to Dig, but less than I would like and less than I perceive her to be.

Same. I feel like there have been times that they want us to see that Felicity and Diggle are good friends outside of Oliver, but too often, they just dismiss their friendship or don't bother writing for it. (606/607 with his injury, 617, etc.) 

I have a feeling we might not see Felicity and Diggle talking at all during this current split. 

[Soulfire]

[insomniadreams88]

Not worried at all. (But I feel like they really want us to be worried about Olicity with every preview for the episode?) 

[apinknightmare]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

Not worried at all. (But I feel like they really want us to be worried about Olicity with every preview for the episode?) 

Naturally they'd want to dip back into the well that hasn't really ever done them any favors, LOL.

[KenyaJ]

10 minutes ago, bijoux said:

This article reminds me of how easily Dig breaking off with Felicity is sometimes played. He apparently did so vicariously now as he did at the beginning of S4 due to a disagreement with Oliver. And he was definitely Oliver’s friend first during his blue spiral in S3. I don’t for a second believe this is how it’s meant to come off, but at times like these Felicity feels maybe not insignificant to Dig, but less than I would like and less than I perceive her to be.

Yeah, I think the writers fail to flesh out how Diggle and Oliver's disagreements affect Felicity. It didn't really bother me in S4, because that was a very Oliver/Diggle-centric conflict, but in this case, I really wish they'd explore the impact of 617 on Diggle and Felicity's relationship. What Diggle said to Oliver was awful but as I was watching it, I almost felt worse for Felicity. I kept thinking how painful it must have been for her to listen to one of her best friends say such hurtful things to her husband, especially since most of what Diggle said was bullshit.

I know Diggle and Felicity's relationship can overcome this, and I don't need a long drawn-out resolution, but IMO she has a legitimate reason to feel hurt by Diggle and be upset with him. I'd love it if there was some acknowledgement of that, though I doubt there will be.

[way2interested]

*Felicity tells Oliver to go like a parent would tell their moody teen to go to his/her room after arguing with them* THEY MIGHT SPLIT UP NOW YOU GUYS.

Although Beth's "worst nightmare" mention makes me think more that that whole "space" line is hallucination, especially since it's in the bunker and apparently that's spoiler territory.

[Angel12d]

In that scene where she tells Oliver to get out, she's probably just doing it for William's sake? I'd guess that's immediately after the moment he lashes out at them both. And then later he hallucinates her asking for space?

[insomniadreams88]

I am looking forward to the Oliver and Lance scenes since it's likely (I hope) that none of them will include a mention of BS. I'd love one episode where Lance's presence isn't about the woman who's not his daughter at all. 

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

In that scene where she tells Oliver to get out, she's probably just doing it for William's sake? I'd guess that's immediately after the moment he lashes out at them both. And then later he hallucinates her asking for space?

That's what I'm thinking. 

[BkWurm1]

You can tell they grabbed and used her "get out" from a longer piece of dialogue.  She probably was saying something to the effect that if he was just going to keep saying stupid things then he should just get out.  And she says it sooo calmly too.  This is not in the middle of an end of a relationship fight at all, lol.  

Edited April 11, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Chaser]

I'm not a fan of the contrived angst, but I'm looking forward to some focus on Olicity. Particularly the make-up and hopefully watching Oliver actually try and stop her from leaving.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, KenyaJ said:

Y'all. An actual interview with Emily! IDEK what to do with myself.

Arrow's Emily Bett Rickards: 'Things Get Pretty Emotional' as Felicity and Oliver Digest Diggle's Exit

By Matt Webb Mitovich / April 11 2018

Quote

 

Indeed, throughout myriad tests of Team Arrow, cool, calm and collected Felicity often has served as a voice of reason, a peacemaker who (usually) helps people see other points of view. “That’s why I like her so much,” smiles her portrayer. But when it comes to Oliver’s rift with Diggle, “try as she does, it’s kind of the same thing as belief – you have to want to look outside your point of view. Because it’s not only about point of view, it’s motive in this case. Why are we doing the things that were doing? Why do we believe in justice so strongly? What type of justice am I after, what type of justice are you after…?

“People’s perspectives start to change, but hopefully their morals are still coming from the same place,” she adds. “And that’s kind of the debate.”

 

EBR delivers such articulate and thought out answers.  

I will say that this section:

Quote

“She does the best she can, but as you are usually when you want to have somebody’s side so strongly, she’s a little bit biased,” the actress allows. “She still believes in their journey in front of them, and still wants to believe. And I think wanting to believe is, like, 95 percent of it some of the time. Without that belief, there are lives at stake. She wants to make sure she can keep things all together.”

This section brings me pause because I can see the beginnings of the writers trying to have Felicity also start to think Oliver is doing things wrong but that she'd been blinded by her loyalty and faith.  I hope I'm reading too much into it or that it at least comes off as reasonable questioning of the status quo rather than hopping on the same stupid train they have Diggle and the noobs riding.  

[Trisha]

40 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

In that scene where she tells Oliver to get out, she's probably just doing it for William's sake? I'd guess that's immediately after the moment he lashes out at them both. And then later he hallucinates her asking for space?

I think so too. He seems to glance at someone/something behind her before leaving, which makes me think William is in the room. I'm here for Felicity going all mama bear!

[SmallScreenDiva]

Beth mentioned in the preview that losing Felicity is Oliver's worst nightmare so him hallucinating her asking for space would be on the mark, I would think. As long as they don't have real Felicity repeating Diggle's talking points, I'm good with the angst. But if they use Felicity like they did Diggle to sell the newbies? Ugh. And because this is Arrow, I'm expecting that, TBH.

[Cleanqueen]

Rewatching last week's episode, I don't necessarily think Diggle sided with the newbies, I think he was just throwing out stuff to try to prove his stance and using the surveillance as a problem was clearly a bad point since Diggle agreed with Oliver and didn't once suggest they try something else. I wish the show would have had Diggle express his underlying issue and that is him wanting to be something more than he has currently been, he was using the hood to describe his lack of growth perhaps. He claimed he wanted to be a leader but somehow went to go to work for an organization that has shady methods and where he is still not the leader.

[Belinea]

39 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

This section brings me pause because I can see the beginnings of the writers trying to have Felicity also start to think Oliver is doing things wrong but that she'd been blinded by her loyalty and faith.

I'd go with that as well because I choose to believe their narrative is that Oliver is wrong (and the problem) and that is why people leave him. 

[tv echo]

Yet Oliver is the one who's been apologizing all season. Did Rene ever apologize for betraying him to the FBI or deserting the team during a field mission? Did Dinah ever apologize for deceiving him about her secret meetings with the Vigilante and letting the Vigilante go free? Did Curtis ever apologize to Felicity for secretly injecting tracking nanites into her pancakes? Ugh.

Edited April 11, 2018 by tv echo

[Belinea]

Why does Oliver even bother with wondering why NTA left him? The only one he should care about is Diggle.

[Angel12d]

Oliver wondering why everyone leaves would've made sense in earlier seasons when he'd actually done stuff to warrant leaving but in S6? DUMB. He hasn't done anything wrong. I don't understand these writers. I don't understand them at all! ?

[tv echo]

Catherine Dent (who's currently playing General Hale on Marvel's Agents of SHIELD) is listed by IMDb as playing someone named Alexa Van Owen in 621 of Arrow...
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0219748/?ref_=tt_cl_t11

Edited April 11, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Evan Roderick, who plays Curtis' new boyfriend, Officer Nick Anastas, is listed by IMDb as appearing in 622 (but not in 618-621)...
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm7754841/?ref_=tt_cl_t10

He also posted this instagram pic yesterday:

Edited April 11, 2018 by tv echo