Spoiler Discussion Thread

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Is it possible - just once - to not be a total asshat

Especially since it's a very valid question. I don't think the CW has ever aired a new episode on Thanksgiving. 

[Guest]

Holy crap. They really don't care about ratings, do they?

[Trisha]

4 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I think he commented to someone at a con that they'll like Oliver again? Or something like that?

Yup, it was my friend. She told him that she thought S5 was rough in regards to Oliver's character and he agreed and repeated that it was rough and was going to say something else but kind of stopped himself and started talking about S6 instead and how much better Oliver is. He may be loving S5 in hindsight, but I can't remember another season where he had to do a FB video to defend his character because he was getting so many comments about Oliver's unlikability...

[lemotomato]

2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

CW wouldn't be the first network to air a new episode of something on Thanksgiving with ratings doing semi ok.

I honestly can't remember any show that aired a new episode on Thanksgiving. Do you have examples?

[Primal Slayer]

5 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I honestly can't remember any show that aired a new episode on Thanksgiving. Do you have examples?

PBS aired the new Anne of Green Gables

CBS aired their entire lineup in 2014

[Starfish35]

It happens occasionally but it's unusual, especially for a broadcast network.  I'm really surprised they're doing this. 

[lemotomato]

10 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

PBS aired the new Anne of Green Gables

CBS aired their entire lineup in 2014

PBS isn't considered one of the "big" networks and CBS had football as a lead in. And even then they only did it one year, so that's not a particularly big sample size.

I guess MG et al really don't give a crap about ratings.

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, lemotomato said:

PBS isn't considered one of the "big" networks and CBS had football as a lead in. And even then they only did it one year, so that's not a particularly big sample size.

I guess MG et al really don't give a crap about ratings.

You wanted examples lol. 

[BkWurm1]

I'm still half waiting for MG to get a call from the network saying NOPE!  (Someone start asking the Supernatural showrunners for answers about their schedule!)

But that would just mean it would air some other time.  

So an episode called Thanksgiving set ON Thanksgiving (even if it didn't air then) means I think at the very least we should get a nice "family" dinner scene.  Probably some William stuff.  Which opens the door to other characters and their families.  I shudder for Quentin related family issues.  I don't care that BS is slinking around being a bad guy, but I hate anything that might make Lance look at her like she's HIS Laurel.  But that should only be a small part of what could be a good character episode.  

Edited September 18, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Chaser]

It may not have been an intentional move. Maybe they looked at everything on the board this year and realized there was no way of avoiding it. So they embraced it instead.

Regarding SAs tweet, maybe Olicity is getting married but it's interrupted? Then crossover wedding one. 

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm still half waiting for MG to get a call from the network saying NOPE!  (Someone start asking the Supernatural showrunners for answers about their schedule!)

CW dictates scheduling so MG has nothing to do with it.

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

CW dictates scheduling so MG has nothing to do with it.

I just mean maybe he didn't realize they were off that day because it's never come up for Arrow before and then the CW would give him the heads up that they don't do programming that day.  Seems like a long shot but then so does actually airing a new episode ON Thanksgiving Day.  That's probably going to be the most shifted viewing episode in show history. 

[lemotomato]

8 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

You wanted examples lol. 

Examples that supported what you said about the OK ratings of programming aired on Thanksgiving. Sorry I wasn't clear.

[BkWurm1]

7 minutes ago, Chaser said:

It may not have been an intentional move. Maybe they looked at everything on the board this year and realized there was no way of avoiding it. So they embraced it instead

Seems the most logical explanation.  

[statsgirl]

They've done a couple of shows with a Christmas/holiday party.  But has Arrow ever done a show with a holiday in it?  Maybe they thought it's time, since it's the CW who sets the schedule.

[Chaser]

Would 4x09 count? They had the office Christmas/Holiday party. 

[BkWurm1]

13 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

They've done a couple of shows with a Christmas/holiday party.  But has Arrow ever done a show with a holiday in it?  Maybe they thought it's time, since it's the CW who sets the schedule.

No, apart from the parties and the tree lighting proposal (Little Drummer Boy theme during the car shooting) I really don't think so.   I was actually pondering just that, because in the past, the WB/CB has wanted shows to have certain Holiday-themed episodes since they liked pulling out the rerun in the future.  But Arrow hasn't had the Holloween or X-mas It's a Wonderful Life type episode.  And I really have a hard time imagining one beyond it just happening to BE Thanksgiving while other stuff is going on.  I can't really picture a full on holiday episode.  Maybe Thanksgiving is the lesser of all evils?

Edited September 18, 2017 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

Supergirl had the Valentine's Day episode last season.  Maybe MG, who seems to want to bring back the theme shows of his youth (e.g. gun PSA ) wants to do one with Thanksgiving.  The theme of the season is "family" and it would fit in.

Edited September 18, 2017 by statsgirl

[Trini]

There was also the "Three Ghosts" episode in season 2 that mentioned Christmas and alluded to A Christmas Carol.

[Velocity23]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

PBS aired the new Anne of Green Gables

CBS aired their entire lineup in 2014

CBS airs new stuff because of the major lead in they get from football. Its easy for them just tack on some sitcoms. That dont even start on time.  FOX tried it with Empire but the next year they decided not to do it again. 

[strikera0]

I just found this article:

http://pursuenews.com/arrow-season-6-katie-cassidy-hints-black-sirens-redemption/

Does anybody here have the EW fall TV preview issue so that we can get the quotes in context?

[Primal Slayer]

6 hours ago, statsgirl said:

They've done a couple of shows with a Christmas/holiday party.  But has Arrow ever done a show with a holiday in it?  Maybe they thought it's time, since it's the CW who sets the schedule.

It is a sin that Arrow has yet to do a Halloween episode. 

[tv echo]

607 ratings are going to be abysmal if it's airing on Thanksgiving, so that drop will offset any ratings bump from the 608 crossover, resulting in a wash for S6's overall season average ratings.

I doubt that Arrow will last 10 seasons. The CW doesn't seem to give a f**k care about it.  GB has moved on to his zillion other projects. MG is clearly also looking to do other shows and projects. Now that Oliver's original 5-year story arc is over, the original EPs seem to be at a loss about what to do with Oliver. So far, S6 seems to have a lot of focus on supporting and new characters.

IMDb is listing James Bamford as the director of 608 (no surprise there)...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6493668/?ref_=ttep_ep8

Edited September 18, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

From the PursueNews link posted by @strikera0 above:

Quote

EW’s fall TV preview special double issue contained new details about Arrow season 6. Going by the conversations with EP Marc Guggenheim, it looks like the death of Samantha Clayton (Played by Anna Hopkins) is certain and it forces Oliver Queen to be the Father William (Jack Moore) never had.

Ugh... please let there be grandparents who can take William.

[insomniadreams88]

From the PursueNews link above:

Quote

“She’s at a crossroads,” said Cassidy. “Things that will really [get through to] her is family,” hints the actress.

But the E1 Lances are not her family. Also, blowing up a police station is a funny way of showing that "she's at a crossroads." Is everyone supposed to continue to try to get through to her while she blows up buildings and attacks the team? 

[catrox14]

On 9/16/2017 at 9:16 AM, Primal Slayer said:

They brought in Dinah saying that she is Oliver's equal, it seems natural to actually follow up on that. If they do it in a good way that is a different question. 

Wait, I'm confused. When was it said Dinah was Oliver's equal, at least on the show. I legit don't remember that.

[bijoux]

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Wait, I'm confused. When was it said Dinah was Oliver's equal, at least on the show. I legit don't remember that.

I think that was a talking point when they were introducing the character, nothing said on the show.

[LolaRuns]

Sara stopping by for the Thanksgiving episode would be pretty exciting. I have a hard time believing Black Siren would be in the crossover. 

[strikera0]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

I doubt that Arrow will last 10 seasons. The CW doesn't seem to give a f**k care about it.  GB has moved on to his zillion other projects. MG is clearly also looking to do other shows and projects. Now that Oliver's original 5-year story arc is over, the original EPs seem to be at a loss about what to do with Oliver. So far, S6 seems to have a lot of focus on supporting and new characters.

IMDb is listing James Bamford as the director of 608 (no surprise there)...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6493668/?ref_=ttep_ep8

Why would people want that anyway? Arrow ran out of fresh ideas eons ago and most cast-members will probably be ready to move on a few years from now. Just look at Smallville. By the time that show entered it's tenth season, the only original cast member left was Tom Welling. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by strikera0

[catrox14]

21 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I think that was a talking point when they were introducing the character, nothing said on the show.

Okay thank you. I thought I missed a big plot point.

[Starfish35]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

607 ratings are going to be abysmal if it's airing on Thanksgiving, so that drop will offset any ratings bump from the 608 crossover, resulting in a wash for S6's overall season average ratings.

Someone more in the know correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I believe that episodes that air on holidays like this are usually marked as "special" episodes and not counted in the season averages.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Lance seemed pretty clear he didn't consider BS family when he hit her over the head. Also, Oliver could barely call her by her name, referring to her a meta. So I'm not sure where this whole "family" thing is coming from other than KC, who we know has her own head canons that do not reflect the show. Then again, it's Arrow, and the show likes ignoring its own history.

[Chaser]

45 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

From the PursueNews link above:

But the E1 Lances are not her family. Also, blowing up a police station is a funny way of showing that "she's at a crossroads." Is everyone supposed to continue to try to get through to her while she blows up buildings and attacks the team? 

Something was said in regards to Lance and BS in the opener at SDCC that had some of us concerned about his fate. I'm guessing we may get a moment where Lance tries to reach BS and she decides she would rather blow up police stations.

As for Sara and Laurel, I'm assuming if they meet it would have to be on Arrow because the LOT showrunner said it wasn't being discussed on LOT.

Please don't kill Samantha. Just don't.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Then again, it's Arrow, and the show likes ignoring its own history.

Yeah, I was gonna say - it's tough to tell whether this is just a wish/headcanon or something that is actually happening, since Arrow can't keep its canon straight. I'm guessing it's probably an overstatement since it's way too early in the season for her to start waffling on villain status. But then again, the Arrow writers are awful, so...who knows? 

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

From the PursueNews link above:

Quote

“She’s at a crossroads,” said Cassidy. “Things that will really [get through to] her is family,” hints the actress.

But the E1 Lances are not her family. Also, blowing up a police station is a funny way of showing that "she's at a crossroads." Is everyone supposed to continue to try to get through to her while she blows up buildings and attacks the team? 

Depending on when the quote is sourced from, it could just be another one of KC's headcanons/wishful thoughts. If it's from SDCC, I doubt she knows anything concrete about the plans for BS back then.

[DrSpaceman10]

Eh, I think it's just her trying to drum up support for potential future storylines, since I'm pretty positive her role is going to be much smaller than it seems right now (again because of the stupid promo/cliffhanger). 

And please Grodd no to a Lance "sister" reunion on Arrow. Eek. 

I can't wait until there's something to talk about besides birds and Myson, haha. 

[Guest]

I'm leaning more towards this being one of KC's head canons right now, ones that rarely line up with the show. But I don't rule anything out. They're already saying how BS in an old friend of Oliver's which is nonsense because he only just met her. This insistence that she's basically E1 Laurel is ridiculous but it's Arrow so...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[tv echo]

I think it's interesting that RG mentions Felicity or EBR in all three of his recent media interviews (I don't recall him mentioning her in his past interviews)...

In his Den of Geek interview, he says: "I think the only person I haven’t really done scenes with is Felicity. I remember talking to Emily [Bett Rickards], like, ‘we haven’t really had our scene yet.’ You know? So, hopefully, maybe, there will be something really cool where I get to work with ‘blondie’. There could be something cool there."

In his Bleeding Cool interview, he says: "I love that, like Felicity, Wild Dog has been able to connect with everyone in one way or another. That’s what I love about playing Rene, his ability to mesh with everyone."

In his HeyUGuys interview, he says: "I say that giving props to the cast; Stephen, Emily, David, Paul. They didn’t make me feel like an outsider and just welcomed me which allowed me to do what I do with the character and feel comfortable doing that."

Edited September 18, 2017 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

17 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I think it's interesting that RG mentions Felicity or EBR in all three of his recent media interviews (I don't recall him mentioning her in his past interviews)...

In his Den of Geek interview, he says: "I think the only person I haven’t really done scenes with is Felicity. I remember talking to Emily [Bett Rickards], like, ‘we haven’t really had our scene yet.’ You know? So, hopefully, maybe, there will be something really cool where I get to work with ‘blondie’. There could be something cool there."

In his Bleeding Cool interview, he says: "I love that, like Felicity, Wild Dog has been able to connect with everyone in one way or another. That’s what I love about playing Rene, his ability to mesh with everyone."

In his HeyUGuys interview, he says: "I say that giving props to the cast; Stephen, Emily, David, Paul. They didn’t make me feel like an outsider and just welcomed me which allowed me to do what I do with the character and feel comfortable doing that."

He's finally realized why everyone keeps asking about the blonde girl :P

[calliope1975]

If Samantha is dead (good god no) and if Myson isn't shipped off to his grandparents (and let me not get started on why Oliver would have custody to begin with) or off-screenville, then kid actor better have upped his game. I watched too many shows recently with excellent kid actors so they exist. 

A BS redemption is stupid. She's not LL; I don't care how many times KC talks about her "family." 

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

From the PursueNews link above:

But the E1 Lances are not her family. Also, blowing up a police station is a funny way of showing that "she's at a crossroads." Is everyone supposed to continue to try to get through to her while she blows up buildings and attacks the team? 

They aren't directly her family but they are still a version of her family which still impacts her to an extent. It's a possible do-over depending on what happened to them on E2.

Some may think she wasn't born evil but took a turn down the wrong path and may be willing to try to help fix that. It wouldn't be anywhere near as well written as Faiths arc on Buffy/Angel but probably general outline they may be thinking about. 

And with the a show that refused to kill Malcolm because he donated some sperm even though he continued to endanger their lives and forgive Slade for killing Moira, along with Nyssa who put the Lance family in danger, this is nothing new. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Primal Slayer

[LolaRuns]

I know it's not a popular opinon, but to me it's pretty obvious that it would be pretty pointless not to use any aspect of Black Siren being a version of Laurel. Whether it goes in the direction of her messing with people or not more in the reverse, people being able to mess with her because they remind her of her family. If anybody was completely rational about the fact that she isn't actually this universe's Laurel that would be pretty boring. 

I'm still sad that they didn't consider her for a Legends rather than Arrow though. Season 1 of Legends had an interesting edge because they drafted some actual villains and grey characters. Now it seems like the "lawful good" characters vastly outnumber the more questionable ones. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

They are complete strangers that look like her family. Malcolm is a horrible father but he is Thea's father.

Anyway given KC's track record with what's in the script vs what she thinks is in the script we won't know until it airs what they plan to do with her. :/

[Morrigan2575]

54 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Depending on when the quote is sourced from, it could just be another one of KC's headcanons/wishful thoughts. If it's from SDCC, I doubt she knows anything concrete about the plans for BS back then.

It actually sounds like something from SDCC. I noticed the Wendy quote about BS redemption is also old (or WM just repeated herself). I'm guessing EW just pulled together quotes from SDCC for their Fall Preview Blurb and this site pulled those quotes and editorialized.

[LolaRuns]

To me the idea of parellel universes always suggested that the people still share some of the same character traits, they just turned out differently because of circumstances. So if you love a person for their traits, you might still find some of those traits in the parallel universe version, even if you didn't share the same experiences. To me that's how for example Flash seems to play it. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

Experiences are exactly what shape us in the person we are. There are plenty of people that share traits but that one, unique person is special to me. Without that it's someone else, a stranger. I get if they play it like they have a hard time hurting her (even if Lance and Felicity had no problem) because looking at her they are reminded of the person they lost but in no way because that person kind of is Laurel, because she isn't.

[leopardprint]

18 minutes ago, LolaRuns said:

To me the idea of parellel universes always suggested that the people still share some of the same character traits, they just turned out differently because of circumstances. So if you love a person for their traits, you might still find some of those traits in the parallel universe version, even if you didn't share the same experiences. To me that's how for example Flash seems to play it. 

She still hasn't done anything worse than Slade (or Merlyn) so a redemption arc isn't out of the question. 

I guess it's the nature vs nurture argument but they should really look towards Orphan Black in how to create distinct versions of the "same person" and some of them were just plain evil. 

She's isn't the Laurel they knew and it seems like the same events that made Laurel just rightfully bitter and angry towards Oliver made BS a straight out villain.

 

My dislike of the Samantha character is well-documented but I find it gross that they offed her just so Oliver can go play dad because they've run out of storylines and can't be bothered to properly develop relationships anymore. Might cut into their stunt sequence time. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by leopardprint

[apinknightmare]

32 minutes ago, LolaRuns said:

To me the idea of parellel universes always suggested that the people still share some of the same character traits, they just turned out differently because of circumstances. So if you love a person for their traits, you might still find some of those traits in the parallel universe version, even if you didn't share the same experiences. To me that's how for example Flash seems to play it. 

There's nothing wrong with wanting to help this version of Laurel find her way - there is something wrong with acting like she's the same person, just plucked from another dimension. It's an interchangeability that they've had with Laurel that is IMO pretty gross - E2 Laurel is the same as E1 Laurel - Dinah is E1 Laurel in the field but better, even has the same first name AND field name. Yuck.

Edited September 18, 2017 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

The show already addressed this in ep 5x10.  Oliver said that  people turn out the way they do because of a circumstance and maybe if they reach out to her there will be something of Laurel I there  and by the end of the episode everyone had concluded that Nope.

I have no doubt that they're going milk the fact that she looks like E1 Laurel but if they redeem her, we're back to the same old problems was with the original.

[Trisha]

24 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

The show already addressed this in ep 5x10.  Oliver said that  people turn out the way they do because of a circumstance and maybe if they reach out to her there will be something of Laurel I there  and by the end of the episode everyone had concluded that Nope.

They did -- and then Oliver gave that final speech about putting BS in a nearby Argus facility: "I'm keeping her close because if there's anything left of the real Laurel in there, I'm going to find it."