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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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calliope1975

calliope1975

I hope Slade only has a minor, very minor role this season. This show has a weird habit of forgiving people who do heinous things. I know Slade was "under the influence," and while I can see Oliver & Co. making peace with him, I can't see hanging out with the dude who ran your mother through with a sword. I had the same problems with MM. 

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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)
3 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I hope Slade only has a minor, very minor role this season. This show has a weird habit of forgiving people who do heinous things. I know Slade was "under the influence," and while I can see Oliver & Co. making peace with him, I can't see hanging out with the dude who ran your mother through with a sword. I had the same problems with MM. 

I hope he's only in 601 briefly. Slade's plan required five years of careful planning including complicated financial and political schemes so I don't really buy hand waving it away as a Roy like mindless rampage. Also he tried to kill Thea and Oliver post-cure.

Yeah the glossing over terrible people cause they are useful in cool fight scenes is a bad habit this show has. 

Edited by leopardprint
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)
15 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I hope Slade only has a minor, very minor role this season. This show has a weird habit of forgiving people who do heinous things. I know Slade was "under the influence," and while I can see Oliver & Co. making peace with him, I can't see hanging out with the dude who ran your mother through with a sword. I had the same problems with MM. 

I kind of want a Punisher/Daredevil S2 relationship between Oliver/Slade. Two people that have diametrically opposed beliefs/methods and occasionally go head to head but, when the chips are down Slade has Oliver's back and Oliver turns a blind eye to Slade's actions.

They have a history and, there's a lot of guilt over the Island (Oliver) and SC (Slade). That should prevent any family/friendship BFF scenarios in S6. I didn't Love Moira the way many fans do, she was a great character and a great actress but, I never loved her. However, Slade killing Moira is too big for me to get over. I love Slade but, I'll yell at the TV if they tried to do that. Even more than the BS they pulled with Malcolm.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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JamieLynn832002

JamieLynn832002

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Or worse yet, in the process of trying to bring Slade back to prison, Lyla gets caught in the crossfire.  I need someone to confirm Lyla's ongoing health and welfare.  :(  

Yeah, I'm worried about Lyla, too. Something about the way her story wrapped, both here and on The Flash, had me convinced she was going to die in Missing/Lian Yu and that fear still lingers.

BkWurm1

BkWurm1

3 minutes ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

Yeah, I'm worried about Lyla, too. Something about the way her story wrapped, both here and on The Flash, had me convinced she was going to die in Missing/Lian Yu and that fear still lingers.

I go back and forth.  I was worried at one point in 519 but by 520, I thought I'd gotten past it.  But there has to be a big reason for a big rift and just disagreeing on the principle of Slade not deserving a chance isn't enough for a real rift.  Especially when it's Oliver who suffered the most from Slade's actions, well, Oliver and Thea.  I could more easily right now imagine Thea not able to forgive Oliver if he decided to forgive Slade.  Dig just doesn't have a deep enough stake in it THAT WE KNOW OF.  

I'd prefer that we find out something happened to his parents than they do something to Lyla.  Lyla as the head of Argus is just SOOO useful on the show.  Killing her makes no sense unless the actress realized she wouldn't be available anymore.  

statsgirl

statsgirl

Didn't DR say something about the Diggle/Lyla conflict continuing into s6?  Or maybe he sides with Lyla against Oliver for some reason.

2 hours ago, leopardprint said:

ETA: On second thought maybe it's over registering vigilantes? Like I could see Oliver being super gung-ho about being a hero in the light and then Diggle is like that's some stupid BS and we all have kids man. 

Would they do that blatant a ripoff of Civil War?  It seems a lot even for these EPs.

1 hour ago, LeighAn said:

Why can't Oliver marry Felicity and be responsible for William? 

Either of those relationships is tricky.  Being married is more complicated than living together and suddenly being responsible for a 10 year old boy whose mother is in a coma or dead, is a huge task.  Trying to navigate them both at the same time is a scenario for disaster, especially for Oliver whose forte has never been relationships.

Plus if Oliver is responsible for William then it's because Samantha is either sick or dead.  William is going to resent Felicity even more if Oliver is marrying her right now as a replacement for his mother that he doesn't want.

If William is still living with Oliver in six months, then that would be a better time for Oliver to marry Felicity.

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think Myson will be around but he won't have a lot of screen time, rather, people reacting to the situation will be what fills the plot.  So the kid comes in, briefly says hey to Oliver and leaves the room.  People talk about him.  Or he's at school or hanging with Thea and people talk about him and how Oliver is doing.  Perhaps William even throws a tantrum and locks himself in his room.  Cue Oliver and people reacting to him.  I just will be surprised if the kid himself is anything more than a constant catalyst. (And it doesn't have to be a negative thing)  I can't see him having his own storyline.  

And they said this isn't a soap opera.

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leopardprint

leopardprint

Just now, statsgirl said:

Plus if Oliver is responsible for William then it's because Samantha is either sick or dead.  William is going to resent Felicity even more if Oliver is marrying her right now as a replacement for his mother that he doesn't want.

If William is still living with Oliver in six months, then that would be a better time for Oliver to marry Felicity.

Perhaps that's what "another night" is about? If Samantha is dead or in a coma, Oliver will "focus" on the kid, Olicity is backburnered, then later on they just decide to get married because life is short or something. Also has the benefit of not having to actually show relationship development. 

Tbh, as much as I dislike the Samantha character, fridging her so Oliver can play father is pretty gross. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
Quote

 

Either of those relationships is tricky.  Being married is more complicated than living together and suddenly being responsible for a 10 year old boy whose mother is in a coma or dead, is a huge task.  Trying to navigate them both at the same time is a scenario for disaster, especially for Oliver whose forte has never been relationships.

Plus if Oliver is responsible for William then it's because Samantha is either sick or dead.  William is going to resent Felicity even more if Oliver is marrying her right now as a replacement for his mother that he doesn't want.

If William is still living with Oliver in six months, then that would be a better time for Oliver to marry Felicity.

 

I get what you are saying but I also think it makes even less sense to establish one routine, (Oliver and William alone) when Oliver's ultimate plan already is Oliver and Felicity as a couple.  They'd need to all figure out their roles.  Sure, make sure Oliver takes the lead with William, but if Oliver and Felicity are already a package deal, keeping her out of it, isn't really helping in the long run.   

What might happen though is because Oliver and Felicity are "taking things slow", Oliver will have to run around and get an apartment and rush ahead with the William stuff now, even knowing he's going to be adding Felicity to the mix real soon anyway.  (The doing on his own vs as a couple was a plot point on Gilmore Girls, one that made both of them look really dumb and impatient, and one I have yet to get over.  Sigh)  

Edited by BkWurm1
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LeighAn

LeighAn

We haven't got confirmation that Samantha is dead sick or in a coma. Oliver taking responsibility for his son doesn't mean Samantha isn't/can't and since Samantha seemed to endorse the Oliver and Felicity relationship in the finale I don't think they are going down the angle of Oliver can't marry Felicity and be a father to William. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

3 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

We haven't got confirmation that Samantha is dead sick or in a coma. Oliver taking responsibility for his son doesn't mean Samantha isn't/can't and since Samantha seemed to endorse the Oliver and Felicity relationship in the finale I don't think they are going down the angle of Oliver can't marry Felicity and be a father to William. 

I don't think they will fridge Samantha, but it makes sense they'd tease it as a possibility.  

statsgirl

statsgirl

We know everyone is coming back for season 6.  Someone  has to be in a coma or injured, right?  Or what's the point of the whole island blowing up? 

Either SA is exaggerating that Oliver is taking responsibility for William, which I can well believe, or Samantha is injured because otherwise she'd just take the responsibility for him.

Having William live with him now is a good reason for Oliver getting an apartment.  Otherwise he could just stay in the bunker until things with Felicity have progressed enough to live with her.

15 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I get what you are saying but I also think it makes even less sense to establish one routine, (Oliver and William alone) when Oliver's ultimate plan already is Oliver and Felicity as a couple.  They'd need to all figure out their roles.  Sure, make sure Oliver takes the lead with William, but if Oliver and Felicity are already a package deal, keeping her out of it, isn't really helping in the long run.  

I think Oliver and William living in their own place with Raisa taking care of William as she took care of Oliver (I'm sure the writers are gong "Awwww") is preferable but I can understand it if they were to live with Felicity  Just no wedding until the situation has stabilized.

BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
12 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Their definition of slow is getting married by 609*

 

*a hope that was supported by what Stephen/David said today ok. It's happening

I can handle that.

 Plus, it might give us for the first time, dating Olicity.  Kind of hilarious that they lived together and were almost married but never got around to dating.    

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Just no wedding until the situation has stabilized.

Unless it was a bare bones ceremony, yeah, adding the production of planning a wedding on top of just getting to know the kid would be a terrible idea.  But if they were already living together and just formalized it legally, I don't think that alone would add a complication.  

Edited by BkWurm1
LeighAn

LeighAn

People watch this show accepting that characters suit up and fight crime, that people come back from the dead, that meta humans exist and that magic is real. I hardly see how Oliver being in a committed relationship/marriage while trying to be a responsible father is such a stretch of the imagination. And again Oliver can take responsibility for his son while said sons mother is still alive. Him taking responsibility of William isn't proof Samantha isn't. Divorced parents take responsibility of their kids even though they don't live together but are still living. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

16 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Unless it was a bare bones ceremony, yeah, adding the production of planning a wedding on top of just getting to know the kid would be a terrible idea.  But if they were already living together and just formalized it legally, I don't think that alone would add a complication.  

It would depend on the child and how he takes it.  "You wouldn't marry my mom but you're gonna marry her and you still say you want to get to know me? Why wouldn't you marry my mom when you found out about me"  Some kids are in their thirties or older and still have trouble accepting the new spouse of a parent.

Maybe if Oliver and Felicity were currently living together it would be easier to just bring William in but they're not.

12 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Him taking responsibility of William isn't proof Samantha isn't. Divorced parents take responsibility of their kids even though they don't live together but are still living. 

Realistically if there were nothing wrong with Samantha, Oliver wouldn't be taking responsibility for William, he'd just be having William over for weekends as a start for them to get to know each other.  Having Raisa in the episode suggests that William needs more care than just a weekend or a week-long visit would need because Samantha isn't available to do it.  Divorced parents do take responsibility but in those cases the non-custodial parent has already lived with the child and gotten to know him and even then it's tricky*.  Introducing a child to a new parent is something that should be done slowly and carefully rather than Oliver deciding what school William is going to go to, where he is going to live and other life decisions which is how I define taking responsibility as opposed to babysitting. 

The show's gonna do what the show's gonna do.  All I can do is speculate based on how real people would react.

* One of my favourite stories is of the boy whose parents had joint custody.  His father was an accountant so everything had to be equal.  Monday, Wednesday and Friday he stayed with his father.  Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday he stayed with his mother.  They alternated Sundays.  The kids was was having a pretty rough time emotionally by the time they took him to a psychologist whose recommendation was, let him have a home even if the division isn't perfectly equitable.

Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

(edited)

William is the writers new toy. They will play with this whole fatherhood thing for as long as they like and then he'll be sent back to Samantha or off with Raisa when they get over it. 

It wouldn't be a stretch for them to write William as thinking Aunt Felicity is totes cool and so pretty, dad you should marry her. My mother? What mother? It is Arrow after all! Using normal human logic is not required here. 

I would like to see dating Olicity!

I wonder if that not tonight quote is about them having a sleepover. Haha and then they'll be married 4 eps later because that's taking it slow in Arrowverse.

Edited by Mellowyellow
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
Quote

Realistically if there were nothing wrong with Samantha, Oliver wouldn't be taking responsibility for William, he'd just be having William over for weekends as a start for them to get to know each other.  Having Raisa in the episode suggests that William needs more care than just a weekend or a week-long visit would need because Samantha isn't available to do it.  Divorced parents do take responsibility but in those cases the non-custodial parent has already lived with the child and gotten to know him and even then it's tricky*.  Introducing a child to a new parent is something that should be done slowly and carefully rather than Oliver deciding what school William is going to go to, where he is going to live and other life decisions which is how I define taking responsibility as opposed to babysitting

I agree that Oliver taking charge of William and arranging for child care seems to say that Samantha isn't around.   So injured or in that coma since death seems to be too much of a commitment for the show IMO when it comes to having the kid around.  

 

Quote

It would depend on the child and how he takes it.  "You wouldn't marry my mom but you're gonna marry her and you still say you want to get to know me? Why wouldn't you marry my mom when you found out about me"  Some kids are in their thirties or older and still have trouble accepting the new spouse of a parent.

Maybe if Oliver and Felicity were currently living together it would be easier to just bring William in but they're not.

 

I agree that it would be simpler if they were already living together.  It would be a done deal.  I guess that goes along with my viewpoint that Oliver not including Felicity right away could make it harder to accept her later.  It would break up the new normal. I tend to think that when Oliver is brand new to William, that would also be the easiest time to accept Felicity as part of the package.  He'd never really know his dad any differently.  

Though, I guess even though they aren't living together, if the kid was even paying the tiniest bit attention (yes, a lot to ask), he heard Chase in his dying words pretty much say that Felicity was as important to Oliver as Samantha was to William.  He would never expect anyone to ask him to stop loving his mom, so hopefully, he could understand why Oliver wouldn't stop loving Felicity.  (Eventually at least.  Pictures explaining the parallel might be necessary.)   

Now he very well could resent anyone who came off the island uninjured if his mom is hurt or worse, but it's the kind of irrational attitude that I think I personally wouldn't be very sympathetic to if I'm being honest.  Same with anything along the lines of "why not my mom."  No one wants a kid to be unhappy, but indulging his resentments early on even if he's upset, still would seem like a mistake to me.  

Of course, this is assuming the kid has any kind of a personality or viewpoint at all.  I dearly hope they don't play the resentment of the girlfriend card.  Stick to Oliver struggling to figure stuff out.  I just don't want the icky drama when there's so much to mine without ticking me off.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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bijoux

bijoux

If the actress is there for Arrow, it could simply be to have someone who had faith in Ollie growing up into a decent human being react to him becoming a father. After all, they don't have Moira to play that beat, so Raisa can be a substitute.

Having Felicity pushed aside while Oliver deals with William is exactly what drove them apart, isn't it? It doesn't feel logical to go down that road again if they are planning to bring them together.

Oliver taking responsibility doesn't spell out him being the sole guardian to me. It can just be him wanting to be a father to this kid and stating that clearly. And then for 99 per cent of the time after 601 that happens between one Thursady and the following one. You can have Oliver hanging up after his call with William at the start of a scene here and there.

Frankly, I don't think the show will pay as much thought to William the entire season as has been done on the last two pages of this thread.

If they are keeping him around however much, I wish they'd start calling him Will.

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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

Could also be the case where Oliver makes speeches about Crayola a few eps, have the actor stand around mute and get a few awkward fatherly hugs in and then disappear to Oliver's apartment with Raisa never to be seen again. Heck they could have O and F getting married and the kid will always be magically at school, at camp, at a friend's house etc

This is Arrow! Remember Billy, Susan, that random villain they made a fuss about in S5, Talia. They all amounted to nothing much! 

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

7 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

I hope Slade only has a minor, very minor role this season. This show has a weird habit of forgiving people who do heinous things. I know Slade was "under the influence," and while I can see Oliver & Co. making peace with him, I can't see hanging out with the dude who ran your mother through with a sword. I had the same problems with MM. 

I can't see Thea especially being okay with it. Slade kidnapped her, told her about MM, killed her mother in front of her and tried to kill her on the island. I expect him hanging around because the writers' mindset imo is "yay, we can use deathstroke!" but it's one of the things that weirds me out of the show..that I watch asking myself if they are for real. 

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

7 hours ago, statsgirl said:

 William is going to resent Felicity even more if Oliver is marrying her right now as a replacement for his mother that he doesn't want.

 

I would definitely expect this on a different show. On Arrow it could go in this direction if they want drama for the plot, if they don't that kid won't say a thing. I have troubles trying to imagine William having thoughts or reactions at the moment..

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Featherhat

Featherhat

2 hours ago, wonderwall said:

I'd say she was a waste if we know 100% she's not coming back...but we don't so who knows. 

That's true, she could well be coming back I guess, but she seemed there mostly to serve the Chase plot this season, which is now over. Then again Nyssa has severed several different plots over the seasons. If they wanted "names" killed off that aren't any regulars then both Al Ghul sisters might be candidates.

I really hope Samantha isn't killed off for a variety of reasons, man does this Verse like dead parents (except until now, if you are MM). She could be in hospital and Oliver has to look after W for a while or equally she could have seen the lengths to which Oliver and his friends are willing to go to save him (again) and decided to give him custody during the holidays or every other weekend etc, especially now the "break up Oliver/Felicity with insane demands" is over (at least for this particular plot) and William has proven kidnappable even with a new identity it's not necessarily safer for Oliver to stay away. Or she could be dead, in which case I predict it will be Raisa mainly looking after him and the usual "kid is conveniently occupied somewhere else" 90% of the time. Or grandparents or aunts will pop up when the writers get bored.

50 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I would definitely expect this on a different show. On Arrow it could go in this direction if they want drama for the plot, if they don't that kid won't say a thing. I have troubles trying to imagine William having thoughts or reactions at the moment..

Yeah given the kid has barely said anything on screen and doesn't really seem able to emote that much I have trouble imagining an arc that depends on both those things from him. I think we say his face for 30 seconds during the whole "save Myson" thing. But who knows.

statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

I'm not sure that MG remembers what Raisa looks like either.  She is a fandom favourite, or maybe just a fanfic favourite, and I can see MG going "sure, let's use her in a episode as an easter egg to give the fans a thrill".

7 hours ago, bijoux said:

If the actress is there for Arrow, it could simply be to have someone who had faith in Ollie growing up into a decent human being react to him becoming a father. After all, they don't have Moira to play that beat, so Raisa can be a substitute.

Having Felicity pushed aside while Oliver deals with William is exactly what drove them apart, isn't it? It doesn't feel logical to go down that road again if they are planning to bring them together.

That makes sense in terms of using Raisa.  She's the only quasi-parental figure Oliver has left.

What pushed Oliver and Felicity apart (other than a decree from tptb) was Oliver lying to Felicity about William's existence and then not including her in his decisions about William, the opposite of what she said she wanted in a partner.  Hopefully they won't repeat that beat.

They're teasing "Who Will Survive?" but as far as we know, everyone does except maybe Evelyn and I don't care about her.  I think it's possible that Thea is injured given what SA said yesterday.  But I think the easiest way to kill the two birds of someone injured and Oliver bonding with William is to have Samantha injured for an episode or two and Oliver dealing with William.  Then having ticked off that box, Samantha takes him offscreen  and we only have to hear about William in passing and maybe showing up for the Christmas party. 

Edited by statsgirl
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way2interested

way2interested

47 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

What pushed Oliver and Felicity apart (other than a decree from tptb) was Oliver lying to Felicity about William's existence and then not including her in his decisions about William, the opposite of what she said she wanted in a partner.  Hopefully they won't repeat that beat.

Ha, if SA is getting his "Oliver as a dad" scenes, I'd hope/think he'd get his "Olicity is a couple without drama" too. Plus, they had Oliver already coming to Felicity about his concerns about William and they weren't even back together yet, so that kind of tempered that potential fear for me at least.

49 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

But I think the easiest way to kill the two birds of someone injured and Oliver bonding with William is to have Samantha injured for an episode or two and Oliver dealing with William.  Then having ticked off that box, Samantha takes him offscreen  and we only have to hear about William in passing and maybe showing up for the Christmas party. 

Yeah, I can see something like that going down: Oliver spent hiatus recovering from the fallout and taking care of his kid and now comes 601 where Samantha's all ok and ready to leave and now Oliver has to address whether he actually wants to be a parent or not, instead of just like a temporary place until Samantha's ok, and then boom your s6 question that Oliver has to answer for the year, or at least something to mull over that will occasionally come up in the season.

Although no sure how the rift with Diggle will come into play or how it started, so that may change things, but that's my new off-hand guess as to how this is going to go down. 

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bijoux

bijoux

@tv echo transcribed this in Spoilers Only.

Quote

-- Mod commented that beginning of S5 was "so heavily influenced by the death of Laurel Lance" and asked if that "impact would carry over" to S6. SA: "I saw that Marc tweeted that the, uh, cover script for episode 601 is 'Fallout.' And, um, it's very much a - it's very much, uh, about what happened on the island and how it affects everyone that survives. Yeah." 

Does SA deflecting the actual question mean that this season won't be influenced by Larel's death at all? Yes, please.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

^^^ Sorry. I listened to the question again and the mod was asking if the end of S5's impact would carry over to S6, I think, similar to how Laurel's death carried over from S4 to S5.  (I've edited the transcription accordingly.) It's sometimes difficult to hear everything that's said because of the audio quality.

Edited by tv echo
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Featherhat

Featherhat

Are we sure his OTA rift is with Digg and not Felicity? I mean it seems more likely given what we know, but "Oliver has rift with Diggle" has been done a few times before. "Oliver and Felicity in an awkward place (for whatever reason) leading to reconciliation and boom! wedding (or at least attempt at wedding) for crossover" ala Barry and Kara's break ups might work. Of course Oliver and Felicity rifts have been done before as well.

1 hour ago, way2interested said:

Yeah, I can see something like that going down: Oliver spent hiatus recovering from the fallout and taking care of his kid and now comes 601 where Samantha's all ok and ready to leave and now Oliver has to address whether he actually wants to be a parent or not, instead of just like a temporary place until Samantha's ok, and then boom your s6 question that Oliver has to answer for the year, or at least something to mull over that will occasionally come up in the season.

Sounds plausible I think. Though I think if Oliver doesn't know if he wants to be a parent or not after everything that's gone down since he first found out, we are in for another year of dummy!Oliver. Maybe this is more Chase fallout. Assuming Samantha doesn't die he's not going to have to be a 100% full time custodial parent anyway.

Featherhat

Featherhat

(edited)

Thanks seem to have missed that. Hmm, well it gives DR something to do I guess. Civil War parallel? Well there are a lot more masks running around now than there were that the mayor is secretly endorsing, not to mention BC vs BS potentially causing chaos. Though it seems like it would be something maybe more suited to the Flash, I guess it doesn't have to be re powers/danger or anything.

Edited by Featherhat
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