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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Isn't perjury lying under oath?  Ted Grant wasn't under oath.

 

Oh, look, he knows Laurel is angry about something other than him. And Ray knows Felicity is angry about something other than his stalking. Don't you just love it when these guys who have barely met the women know more about how they're feeling than they do themselves?

Until the show tells me differently I'm going with the Felicity is Ray's EA as a Natalie Abrams-ism.  I love how she was running around Twitter asking for EBR questions and the article is literally 2 sentences from EBR and the rest from SA. 

She was asking for Arrow and Flash (and SPN etc) questions in general. It just happened that almost every question she got about Arrow was about Felicity.

 

Heh. That's exactly what her expression is saying. Me? I'm saying that it's not the most sensitive thing in the world to wear a dead girl's clothes in front of the woman who loved her. But this is Laurel, so I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she just walked around wearing Sara's mask, all day, every day.

 

And now I just find it even sadder that we never got to see Nyssa and Sara together. Not just from a prurient point of view (although, yowsa!), but just because it'd be nice to see them being flirty and lovey-dovey together. Chances of Nyssa taking Sara's body to Nanda Parbat, where she may or may not one day be resurrected? Slim to none. Because while these writers have shown a loose understanding of the word 'dead', they seem to want to forget Sara ever existed. Once Nyssa leaves, I doubt you'll hear Sara's name mentioned again until her killer is unveiled.

You may still get that in the Sara flashbacks, in fact you probably will if they show Sara's relationship with Nyssa developing.

 

Sadly, at this point with Sara dead, they've killed whatever feels I'd be getting.

 

I bet Laurel puts on Sara's masks and clothes every night to "honor" her.

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)

Isn't perjury lying under oath?  Ted Grant wasn't under oath.

 

Ridiculous.  Are we sure that Guggenheim was a real lawyer?  Oh, who am I kidding?  This is totally consistent with Laurel's lawyering skills as portrayed on this show. 

 

For the part of Ted Grant, I think that they would have been better off to cast an actor who oozes charm and charisma.  I watched J.R. Ramirez in Emily Owens, so I know that he's not that guy.

 

Edited to change Kreisberg to Guggenheim :)

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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Advance35

Advance35

I will never understand the Bias against women working as an EA.   I'm an EA that makes more than 68% of the job market as a whole (crossing all industries).   I've only been in this position for 4 years and I could buy and sell departmental heads twice over.   If it were just some middle management EA I could understand but the CEO?!?!?!? Financial worries become a thing of the past if your good at your job.   I say go Felicity.   It beats toiling away at that "Buy Now" and 10 to 1 she makes more than the head of her former IT Department.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

I will never understand the Bias against women working as an EA.   I'm an EA that makes more than 68% of the job market as a whole (crossing all industries).   I've only been in this position for 4 years and I could buy and sell departmental heads twice over.   If it were just some middle management EA I could understand but the CEO?!?!?!? Financial worries become a thing of the past if your good at your job.   I say go Felicity.   It beats toiling away at that "Buy Now" and 10 to 1 she makes more than the head of her former IT Department.

 

I don't have anything against EAs - I used to be one. I have something against taking a character whose interests and skills and education are in a specialized field and shoehorning her into a position that she doesn't want to be in and that leaves her unfulfilled. If Felicity wanted to be an EA, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

But I guess this is a moot point since it doesn't seem like that's going to be her job.

Edited by apinknightmare
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Orion

Orion

I will never understand the Bias against women working as an EA.   I'm an EA that makes more than 68% of the job market as a whole (crossing all industries).   I've only been in this position for 4 years and I could buy and sell departmental heads twice over.   If it were just some middle management EA I could understand but the CEO?!?!?!? Financial worries become a thing of the past if your good at your job.   I say go Felicity.   It beats toiling away at that "Buy Now" and 10 to 1 she makes more than the head of her former IT Department.

 

For me the anger comes from the show telling me that being an EA is not what Felicity wants and I want Felicity to have what she wants. 

 

If she was happy working at Tech Village I'd be cheering her on or if she was happy working as QC's EA I'd be happy she was working there. It's one of the main reasons I want Felicity and Oliver to happen, I want Felicity to have what she wants.

 

The show told me that she was ready to quit being Oliver's EA on the first day because she wanted to go back to being in IT so I'm not going to be happy until that's the job the show gives her.

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HighHopes

HighHopes

I will never understand the Bias against women working as an EA.   I'm an EA that makes more than 68% of the job market as a whole (crossing all industries).   I've only been in this position for 4 years and I could buy and sell departmental heads twice over.   If it were just some middle management EA I could understand but the CEO?!?!?!? Financial worries become a thing of the past if your good at your job.   I say go Felicity.   It beats toiling away at that "Buy Now" and 10 to 1 she makes more than the head of her former IT Department.

 

Oh I have nothing wrong with women working as EAs (if I was in anyway capable of being one, I would love to be one). But i find it wrong when it's Felicity- especially when she made a big deal out of it in season two. She went to school at MIT (and as she grew up in Vegas with a single mom who was a cocktail waitress I'm going to bet that she worked her ass off to go there). She worked in IT before, and that is obviously where her passion is. When Laurel can continue to work as a DA (even after getting fired) why is it that Felicity can't work in the area she went to school for too?

 

(And on that note, Oliver. You told Felicity she had to be your EA because you couldn't travel down 18 floors every time you needed to discuss how you spent your nights. Well it turns out you didn't show up to work much so exactly what was the point of that whole job change for her then???)

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

   I've only been in this position for 4 years and I could buy and sell departmental heads twice over.  

Yeah,  that's part of the problem.  When I was an EA, I was better than many of the people with positions higher than me.  (Incidentally, not the job I wanted, I applied to be a copywriter and a guy got that one and I got to be an EA.)  Doesn't it bug you that people who are less competent than you are hold positions of higher authority, not to mention higher pay?

 

The other problem, as others have said, is that Felicity never wanted to be an EA. She took the job for Oliver as part of his crusade but it's not what she wants and it's not what she trained for.

 

We'll see what happens tonight but if Ray wants her to be an EA too, after learning just how very good she is at tech stuff, I'm going to be shipping her with anyone who will give her a job consistent with her desires and abilities.

 

 

(And on that note, Oliver. You told Felicity she had to be your EA because you couldn't travel down 18 floors every time you needed to discuss how you spent your nights. Well it turns out you didn't show up to work much so exactly what was the point of that whole job change for her then???)

Well someone had to do  his job for him.

Edited by statsgirl
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Advance35

Advance35

I think it's because Felicity is a genius and an MIT grad, and so compensation aside, should be working in her field, unless she doesn't want to do so.

 

I guess to understand the bias, I merely had to ask. LOL.  The last few answers have made it clear as to why it was a pea under the mattress of some fans.  And I can add one more reason on reflection.   Didn't Felicity have a conversation with Barry about how her take-home was REALLY unimpressive? Oy.

 

Now I'm interested in what her position with Ray Palmers company will be.

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

This is from an eonline interview 

So what could finally bring Thea to leave her father, and abandon her new butt-kicking hobby? Honesty. As Amell explained, "Oliver comes to the realization that the only way to bring her home — when it was lies that drove her away — is to tell her the truth. How much truth he has to tell her is one of the crucial points of the episode."

 

Holland promised fans that Thea will learn more of Oliver's secrets — we just don't know yet if she'll discover the whole truth. "He definitely tries to open up to her and be more honest with her,” she said. “It may be in the way that we think, but it also might not be… I think the one thing that could always pull her back is Oliver and her love for him and that side of her family, as well as Roy. She has a lot in Starling City, of course — it's her home."

 

http://www.etonline.com/tv/152896_introducing_arrows_most_dysfunctional_brutal_father_daughter_relationship/index.html

So will Thea find out Oliver is the Arrow or not I wonder? Obviously Willa is ambiguous but it almost seems like she won't. 

Edited by ban1o
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Guest

Guest

I imagine Thea must find out the truth once Oliver discovers that Malcolm is still alive. At least that's how I think it should happen. Malcolm knows Oliver is the Arrow so that's kind of one thing he can hold over Oliver as some form of blackmail and I'd guess Oliver wouldn't want that. He has to tell her the truth so Malcolm doesn't have that power and if he doesn't, it's kind of ridiculous. I don't expect it to happen in 303 though. 

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ban1o

ban1o

I imagine Thea must find out the truth once Oliver discovers that Malcolm is still alive. At least that's how I think it should happen. Malcolm knows Oliver is the Arrow so that's kind of one thing he can hold over Oliver as some form of blackmail and I'd guess Oliver wouldn't want that. He has to tell her the truth so Malcolm doesn't have that power and if he doesn't, it's kind of ridiculous. I don't expect it to happen in 303 though. 

yeah that's what I'm thinking. Obviously she'll find out the truth eventually and probably sooner than later but I don't think it will happen in this episode, like the promo makes it seem. 

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Kymmi

Kymmi

I imagine Thea must find out the truth once Oliver discovers that Malcolm is still alive. At least that's how I think it should happen. Malcolm knows Oliver is the Arrow so that's kind of one thing he can hold over Oliver as some form of blackmail and I'd guess Oliver wouldn't want that. He has to tell her the truth so Malcolm doesn't have that power and if he doesn't, it's kind of ridiculous. I don't expect it to happen in 303 though. 

It also plays into the tweet SA made about the scene in 304 that was 2 years in the making.  It must be him coming clean to Thea.  Very interested in that scene.

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

 I don't really thin the "2 years in the making" comment had to do with Thea. I think it had to do with Merlyn more. But of course I'll wait and see. 

Edited by ban1o
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Genki

Genki

 I don't really thin the "2 years in the making" comment had to do with Thea. I think it had to do with Merlyn more. But of course I'll wait and see. 

 

I agree with you @ban1o, I think that tweet is about Merlyn, but i hope it's about Oliver/Thea.

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ostentatious

ostentatious

The thing is, right now, without Ray giving her a chance...her career would be ruined.

 

She went from being in her field to being an EA. She would not just be able to pick her career in tech back up like she never left. It looks like a demotion, to future employers.

 

A big reason it is a sticking point with fans is that Oliver did that to her without ever asking her, without considering that he was ruining her career. People who go to MIT and major in wtfever she majored in want to work in that field. Her future in that field was wrecked by Oliver deciding he couldn't just text her from the c-suite when he needed something. Ray moving her back into her field would restore her future.

 

I mean, we understand that Oliver just. could not. tolerate his day without her being present for most of it. But I am really hoping that this is the show taking the opportunity to articulate that yes, that was quite crap of Oliver to do that.

 

I wonder if any sort of callback to Isabel's cattiness about the Felicity/Oliver relationship rumors around QC will happen. I would appreciate it.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

That's why I was hoping she would open up her own tech consulting company -- it would remove the taint of Isabel's gossip and put something on her resume for future jobs, and give her flex time for when Team Arrow needs her. Instead the appeal of medical and dental at Tech Village got to her.  

 

So I'm wondering from MG's tweet just what her new position is.  It better be clearly not an EA position, not even an EA position with a super secret side tech project that he doesn't want anyone else to know about. If they want me to buy Ray as a viable love interest, he's going to have to help rehabilitate Felicity's reputation.

Edited by statsgirl
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Tangerine

Tangerine

Oh Laurel.  Always so angry.

 

Can I ask about that random stare off into space when Ted went to go pick up the pamphlet? What exactly was that look supposed to communicate? Annoyance? Impatience? Thinking about what he was saying? Work with me here, guys.

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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

(edited)

So in the newest promo when Nyssa says " My father is a demon, but yours is the devil." She has to be talking to Thea right? 

 

Yes, she was. You can see it in the promo. She tranqs Roy and, probably, kidnaps Thea. Then, Nyssa has Thea bound and hanging upside down while saying that. Thea answers with "Father of the Year." Just like Nyssa had done the same with Dinah and Sara, she's going to use Thea to draw out Malcolm or force Oliver to confront Malcolm.

 

Also, that scene about Nyssa being impressed with Laurel? Well, in a quick shot in that promo, Nyssa is at Ted Grant's boxing gym and Laurel is there, too, taking to heart the important-life-message-given-via-pamphlet (Glee style) of "Learn to Fight!"

Edited by SleepDeprived
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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

lol at Roy getting poisoned again and if she does kidnap Thea lol. Nyssa is batshit crazy lol. 

 

Why does she think that kidnapping Thea would work though? Does she know that Malcolm has a relationship with Thea? 

Edited by ban1o
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KirkB

KirkB

Why does she think that kidnapping Thea would work though? Does she know that Malcolm has a relationship with Thea?

 

Well, she's talking to Thea about her father so I'd have to say yes. As for how Nyssa could know not only the familial relationship but that Malcolm is alive, either Ra's told her (Moira told him after all) or, since she is better at sneaking around than Oliver she probably saw them together.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

So i was thinking over the Flash trailer for the next episode. and Barry saying that "Felicity works with the arrow"
has it been shown in the show that Caitlin and Cisco know she works with the arrow?

they only ever saw her with Oliver and Diggle, not Arrow. So maybe it's not so out there that it says that line.

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KirkB

KirkB

So i was thinking over the Flash trailer for the next episode. and Barry saying that "Felicity works with the arrow"

has it been shown in the show that Caitlin and Cisco know she works with the arrow?

they only ever saw her with Oliver and Diggle, not Arrow. So maybe it's not so out there that it says that line.

 

They called Felicity to tell her the mirakuru cure was ready. Why would they do they if they didn't know she could get it to the Arrow, who was the only one who would have any need for it.

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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

I don't think they would have put two and two together until after the fact, though. At the time Felicity went to them, I don't think they had any reason to know or suspect she was working with The Arrow.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

They called Felicity to tell her the mirakuru cure was ready. Why would they do they if they didn't know she could get it to the Arrow, who was the only one who would have any need for it.

 

And Barry was comatose during all of that. Maybe he says that line of Felicity working with the Arrow and Caitlin and Cisco are all 'yeah, dude, we already know. We helped saved Starling City while you were getting abs.'

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

A lot of people online are speculating that Nyssa will die in the net episode and will be the reason why Ra's Al Guhl comes to Starling City. Please tell me that there's no way this is possible lol. Because now I'm worried. 

Edited by ban1o
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

A lot of people online are speculating that Nyssa will die in the net episode and will be the reason why Ra's Al Guhl comes to Starling City. Please tell me that there's no way this is possible lol. Because now I'm worried.

It wouldn't surprise me. Merlyn?

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strikera0

strikera0

A lot of people online are speculating that Nyssa will die in the net episode and will be the reason why Ra's Al Guhl comes to Starling City. Please tell me that there's no way this is possible lol. Because now I'm worried. 

 

I don't see how that's possible. The description for episode 4 said that Nyssa tells Ra's about Oliver Queen. That would have to happen when she returns to Nanda Parbat at the end of the episode.

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

I don't see how that's possible. The description for episode 4 said that Nyssa tells Ra's about Oliver Queen. That would have to happen when she returns to Nanda Parbat at the end of the episode.

 

The last scene:

 

Nyssa standing on a rooftop, pulls out a phone, 'it's me. I'm coming home now. I don't think Oliver Queen was involved in Sara's death.' Then she gets filled with arrows and falls into the garbage. The writers chuckle with glee at how smart they are and how they just learned about parallels.

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Sunshine

Sunshine

Oliver will be visiting Felicity at her new job in the Cupid episode according to MG.

Per an earlier MG tweet this is the first episode Brandon Routh will appear shirtless in. Should we put 2 & 2 together and come up with 5? LOL!

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ostentatious

ostentatious

(edited)

Hrm, interesting...maybe this ties into the trip to Central City in the crossover event?

 

In Corto Maltese, Shaw is tracking down a lost list of ARGUS agents that is going to be sold to a mysterious Mr. Armitage.

 

Milos Armitage was an arms dealer who was married to Sandra Hawke. He was abusive to her and was not trusted by his stepson, Connor Hawke.
Edited by ostentatious
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Guest
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