Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Chaser]

29 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

I actually remember quite the opposite because I stopped coming here for a while. Posters were sure the boyfriend would be Barry, flashpoint related, and/or gone by the second episode. 

People were also sure that they would never bring on a NuBC. And that people worrying about Tina and her being a BC were ridiculous because they just killed off the last BC. 

This forum seems to have a problem with negativity. Or if not negativity, any type of criticism or not having 100% trust that the best scenario will happen and Olicity will reunite. You voice anything but belief in an Olicity reunion you get attacked. 

You can spec all you want about Oliver opening a hospital on the moon. But when there's scenes in the episode of Oliver having a rocket, talking about how he learned surgery on the island, and interviews with MG saying "never say never" you might actually be right in your spec. 

Nothing in the narrative suggested O/S would happen, until the lunge. Nothing in the narrative suggested the ILY in S2, until it happened. That's the thing with these writers, half of the big scenes or hell, really anything, rarely gets build up. So to claim that "it's not in the narrative" as a reason for something not happening is strange because history with this show has proven "not in the narrative" doesn't matter if the EPs want to do something. 

I would actually say posters here have been fairly practical in their spec. I think everyone here has been around long enough to embrace the "hope for the best, prepare for the worse" mentality. Theorize for the best, but don't be surpised to be disappointed is par for the course. As far as I can recall, no one here was outright dismissing some of the spec, some just decided that being negative about everything (esp with no proof) was creating a miserable forum.  

Edited February 26, 2017 by Chaser
Fucking spelling

[Cleanqueen]

I haven't seen a single person say there is a potential build up for O/D other than oh its gonna happen because its GA/BC and thats the only argument. Never mind the fact that this version of BC was married to Detective Lance.

[wonderwall]

OK. This is important.

I have to clarify the rules of shoe eating... 

If you're gonna make a definitive statement saying that something will or won't happen like it's a fact, you have to risk eating a shoe. If you are speculating or less than 100% sure about something happening, you are not subject to eating a shoe. 

So far I haven't seen anyone make definitive statements. 

[thegirlsleuth]

I think they were using Susan as a palate cleanser while they considered their options--returning to Olicity or going full comics.  However, in the last month there has been a shift in the social media, probably driven by ratings, back to Olicity. They didn't acknowledge Felicity/EBR existed in the 100th episode live tweets--I'm still pissed about that--but now she's everywhere and they are starting to talk about  ways for them to better understand each other in interviews.  If I was just going on what's in-show, I'd be skeptical about their reunion, but they are giving signals outside the show which makes me think a reunion is in the works.

[statsgirl]

30 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Did MG ever claim "This is Your Sword" was about Felicity?

No he didn't, he said it described the episode.  But the lyrics

Quote

Well this is your sword, this is your shield
This is the power of love revealed
Carry them with you wherever you go
And give all the love that you have in your soul

strongly suggested Olicity.  Instead when Felicity and the others go to rescue Oliver, he leads them to think that he's killing them as he marries Nyssa.  The episode depressed me so much, I went and curled up on my bed.  (Full disclosure, I was having an iatrogenic depression but s3 certainly didn't help.)

Edited February 26, 2017 by statsgirl

[ladylaw99]

For me all characters have had terrible moments, some more than others. The problem is the writing has been exceptional worst this year. I take what the writers and actors say with a grain of salt.  I need to see it on my screen and even then it is so badly executed that people see a scene in 20 different ways than what the writers intended.  I truly don't know what they are going to do the next few episodes. 

[Chaser]

24 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

No, MG never said "This is Your Sword" was about Olicity. He was asked to pick Billy Joel songs to describe episodes.

"You're my Home" was his answer to someone asking him for a song to describe Olicity in season 4. "Until You Come to Me" is also his answer to someone asking specifically for a song to describe Olicity.

That makes me think more than ever that they planned on reuniting Olicity in the end of S4.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Chaser

[lemotomato]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

That makes me think more than ever that they planned on reuniting Olicity in the end of S4.

I agree. Or at least give them a line or two implying that they would work on their relationship over the summer and reunite in the season premiere maybe. But then the network stepped in and told them to stall.

[calliope1975]

12 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

OK. This is important.

I have to clarify the rules of shoe eating... 

If you're gonna make a definitive statement saying that something will or won't happen like it's a fact, you have to risk eating a shoe. If you are speculating or less than 100% sure about something happening, you are not subject to eating a shoe. 

So far I haven't seen anyone make definitive statements. 

Raises hand. I did say that I think Oliver will out himself at the end of this season. I even said 100%. But I don't want to eat a shoe so I revise my opinion to 99.5% 

[Mellowyellow]

20 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I haven't seen a single person say there is a potential build up for O/D other than oh its gonna happen because its GA/BC and thats the only argument. Never mind the fact that this version of BC was married to Detective Lance.

That's interesting! So is the bird that dates the old whiskery GA in the Comics Dinah Laurel Lance ie Laurel’s character?

[Chaser]

15 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

OK. This is important.

I have to clarify the rules of shoe eating... 

If you're gonna make a definitive statement saying that something will or won't happen like it's a fact, you have to risk eating a shoe. If you are speculating or less than 100% sure about something happening, you are not subject to eating a shoe. 

So far I haven't seen anyone make definitive statements. 

Are shoes a carb or a protein?

[LeighAn]

6 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Raises hand. I did say that I think Oliver will out himself at the end of this season. I even said 100%. But I don't want to eat a shoe so I revise my opinion to 99.5% 

What the hell Im going do it. 100% Oliver will out himself. Come at me shoes!

[Proteus]

11 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

That's interesting! So is the bird that dates the old whiskery GA in the Comics Dinah Laurel Lance ie Laurel’s character?

I'm not sure but I think BC is Dinah Drake Lance now in the comics with Lance being her dead husbands name. Not sure though. I think Arrow basically put their own twist on this version of BC like they do with many characters. I don't think she's meant to be seen as Lances wife. Especially since Lance had an ex wife named Dinah already and in the comics Lances first name isn't even Quentin. That's why I don't think anything is off the table with this BC/Dinah Drake.

[wonderwall]

14 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Raises hand. I did say that I think Oliver will out himself at the end of this season. I even said 100%. But I don't want to eat a shoe so I revise my opinion to 99.5% 

NO TAKE BACKSIES. 

11 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Are shoes a carb or a protein?

It's 50% carb 50% pure garbage 

7 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

What the hell Im going do it. 100% Oliver will out himself. Come at me shoes!

[LeighAn]

Do I get to choose what shoes I eat? 

[Chaser]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

 

It's 50% carb 50% pure garbage 

 

Like a fruitcake?

[wonderwall]

Just now, LeighAn said:

Do I get to choose what shoes I eat? 

Yes, you do. I do, however suggest you don't eat boots or tennis shoes. Choose something with less material in them. And heels? Don't bother. The heel itself would be like eating a full bone. 

[LeighAn]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Like a fruitcake?

Or like Mc Donald's? Done.

2 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Yes, you do. I do, however suggest you don't eat boots or tennis shoes. Choose something with less material in them. And heels? Don't bother. The heel itself would be like eating a full bone. 

Thongs it is. 

[AyChihuahua]

35 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I think they were using Susan as a palate cleanser while they considered their options--returning to Olicity or going full comics.  However, in the last month there has been a shift in the social media, probably driven by ratings, back to Olicity. They didn't acknowledge Felicity/EBR existed in the 100th episode live tweets--I'm still pissed about that--but now she's everywhere and they are starting to talk about  ways for them to better understand each other in interviews.  If I was just going on what's in-show, I'd be skeptical about their reunion, but they are giving signals outside the show which makes me think a reunion is in the works.

Yeah, as others have said, network interference isn't necessarily good, but I really can't imagine they expected a .5 during sweeps. Whether that means a reunion and whether said reunion will significantly improve the ratings or the general audience has just moved on, I don't know. But a .5 during sweeps...yikes.

[wonderwall]

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Like a fruitcake?

Stale, hard fruitcake. Exactly.

[lemotomato]

44 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

OK. This is important.

I have to clarify the rules of shoe eating... 

If you're gonna make a definitive statement saying that something will or won't happen like it's a fact, you have to risk eating a shoe. If you are speculating or less than 100% sure about something happening, you are not subject to eating a shoe. 

So far I haven't seen anyone make definitive statements. 

Ahem! Just to mix things up:

On 2/2/2017 at 9:30 PM, DrSpaceman10 said:

I'll eat my hat if there's an Olicity sex scene this season :)

[Mellowyellow]

42 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I think they were using Susan as a palate cleanser while they considered their options--returning to Olicity or going full comics.  However, in the last month there has been a shift in the social media, probably driven by ratings, back to Olicity. They didn't acknowledge Felicity/EBR existed in the 100th episode live tweets--I'm still pissed about that--but now she's everywhere and they are starting to talk about  ways for them to better understand each other in interviews.  If I was just going on what's in-show, I'd be skeptical about their reunion, but they are giving signals outside the show which makes me think a reunion is in the works.

What were they thinking using Shady Susie as a palate cleanser!!!!!????

She’s more like stinking rotten fishhead stew with a side of salmonella infested chicken offal designed to give people food poisoning.

[wonderwall]

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Ahem! Just to mix things up:

On 2/3/2017 at 0:30 AM, DrSpaceman10 said:

I'll eat my hat if there's an Olicity sex scene this season :)

A sex scene or at the very least a kiss by episode 20?

COME ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

*sweats nervously because there has been nothing to indicate this but I want it lmao*

Edited February 26, 2017 by wonderwall

[AyChihuahua]

6 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

What were they thinking using Shady Susie as a palate cleanser!!!!!????

She’s more like stinking rotten fishhead stew with a side of salmonella infested chicken offal designed to give people food poisoning.

That could have been the point. Anyone would look good compared to her.

[statsgirl]

24 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Yeah, as others have said, network interference isn't necessarily good, but I really can't imagine they expected a .5 during sweeps. Whether that means a reunion and whether said reunion will significantly improve the ratings or the general audience has just moved on, I don't know. But a .5 during sweeps...yikes.

They probably expected better ratings, not worse, since they went towards the 'back to basics", more fights, playboy Oliver, that the young male reviewers said they wanted.

Well-written relationships and romance -- it's not for teen girls only.

[Mellowyellow]

10 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

That could have been the point. Anyone would look good compared to her.

I have not been able to conclude whether they deliberately wrote her to be as appealing as a rotting toenail so that we'd be "omg anyone but her" or whether they genuinely think she's a compelling character.

19 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

A sex scene or at the very least a kiss by episode 20?

COME ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

*sweats nervously because there has been nothing to indicate this but I want it lmao*

Do you win if it's a flashback sex scene indicating that had a lapse during the break?

[wonderwall]

2 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Do you win if it's a flashback sex scene indicating that had a lapse during the break?

It won't be ;)

[Guest]

Why are you guys talking about eating shoes? I thought we had to eat hats here? 

Edited February 26, 2017 by Guest

[wonderwall]

30 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Why are you guys talking about eating shoes? I thought we had to eat hats here? 

we have evolved and upped the stakes lmao

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

A sex scene or at the very least a kiss by episode 20?

COME ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

*sweats nervously because there has been nothing to indicate this but I want it lmao*

We've got a hat-eating volunteer and now a "come onnnnn"... I think we've done everything we can to will it into existence, lol.

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I lost faith in MG's Billy Joel songs s3 when the lyrics to This Is Your Sword had such Olicity potential and it turned out just to be about Oliver becoming Al Sahim.

So much Olicity potential...

From what I vaguely recollect, the song connection stays limited to the title more often than not.

[Mellowyellow]

Does he always give a song for everything whenever anyone asks or is he selective about it?

I am getting rather excited but I don't want to be excited if he'll give a song to describe Oliver's cat when asked! 

[Belinea]

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I am getting rather excited but I don't want to be excited

I sometimes think that is the intent. They'll throw you a bone to get you excited but what they put out isn't what you expected at all. 

Also, I wonder whether they are actually not sure what to do themselves. I mean, they could go back to it and they'd get a lot of happiness and a lot of backlash or they could go down another path and exactly the same thing would happen. I doubt that everyone will win in a situation such as this. Or maybe they are just nervous to go back to it because they don't know how to write relationships but they know they cannot screw it up again if they choose to return to it.

[Mellowyellow]

5 minutes ago, Belinea said:

I sometimes think that is the intent. They'll throw you a bone to get you excited but what they put out isn't what you expected at all. 

Also, I wonder whether they are actually not sure what to do themselves. I mean, they could go back to it and they'd get a lot of happiness and a lot of backlash or they could go down another path and exactly the same thing would happen. I doubt that everyone will win in a situation such as this. Or maybe they are just nervous to go back to it because they don't know how to write relationships but they know they cannot screw it up again if they choose to return to it.

If they can't write it they should put it in the background and let the fanfic writers take care of the details for the rest of us.

FitzSimmons was very much background this season which worked just fine I thought. 

[theOAfc]

10 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

even if it's absolutely stupid and not supported in the narrative

Like most things they do for the last year.

[Velocity23]

1 hour ago, Belinea said:

I sometimes think that is the intent. They'll throw you a bone to get you excited but what they put out isn't what you expected at all. 

Also, I wonder whether they are actually not sure what to do themselves. I mean, they could go back to it and they'd get a lot of happiness and a lot of backlash or they could go down another path and exactly the same thing would happen. I doubt that everyone will win in a situation such as this. Or maybe they are just nervous to go back to it because they don't know how to write relationships but they know they cannot screw it up again if they choose to return to it.

Or they are going through with it. And it was always the plan to reunite them at the end of the season. 

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Arrow friends

I know we relaxed the rule on fan talk.  That doesn't mean it's cool to directly or indirectly criticize other fans for their views.  

This includes variants of "people are being silly to be mad about [x]" and "people should shouldn't be so negative about [y]" or "people should consider [blah, blah and blah] before they say [argle bargle and fooferaw]

Once again, please remember to be excellent to each other. 

And now, a baby hippo

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39050028

[Morrigan2575]

7 hours ago, Proteus said:

I'm not sure but I think BC is Dinah Drake Lance now in the comics with Lance being her dead husbands name. Not sure though. I think Arrow basically put their own twist on this version of BC like they do with many characters. I don't think she's meant to be seen as Lances wife. Especially since Lance had an ex wife named Dinah already and in the comics Lances first name isn't even Quentin. That's why I don't think anything is off the table with this BC/Dinah Drake.

It's very confusing Nu52 BC was Dinah Drake Lance, married to Kurt Lance and never met Oliver Queen. In Rebrith the implication seems to be DLL is BC since the way they reset everything implies their Pre-Flashpoint lives are back just not their memories. So Rebirth BC seems to be Dinah Laurel Lance who was/is in a relationship with Oliver Queen, not Dinah Drake Lance.

Incidentally Quentin's full name is Quentin Larry Lance (stated in S2). So yeah if we're going "because comics" then Arrow's Dinah Drake should marry Quentin Larry Lance NOT Oliver Queen, his BC was Dinah Laurel Lance and she's dead.

5 hours ago, bijoux said:

From what I vaguely recollect, the song connection stays limited to the title more often than not.

It's always been the song title, it's the fans that go off track and read into the lyrics and then get disappointed. 

Edited February 26, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

7 hours ago, wonderwall said:

A sex scene or at the very least a kiss by episode 20?

COME ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

*sweats nervously because there has been nothing to indicate this but I want it lmao*

If it makes you feel better, this time in S3 Ray and Felicity hadn't even slept together yet. I'd say it was less likely Olicity would have sex in ep 20 that season.

[apinknightmare]

3 hours ago, Belinea said:

Or maybe they are just nervous to go back to it because they don't know how to write relationships but they know they cannot screw it up again if they choose to return to it.

IMO they write relationships just fine. It's when they try to write relationship-based conflict that the whole thing tumbles into the toilet. Thankfully, I think that if/when they put Olicity back together, we probably won't be getting any more of that. Little disagreements - like Felicity chastising Oliver for wanting to infiltrate HIVE? Yes. BMD and running away together for the summer angst? (Please god) No.

[tv echo]

Version of Billy Joel's Until You Come to Me (December Song) posted by MVTriesinging - yes, the singer is off-key, but it's the only audio I could find on youtube (and yes, you can hear bits of Piano Man)...

Edited February 26, 2017 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

10 hours ago, statsgirl said:

So, is Oliver going to go to Felicity, or Felicity to Oliver?

SA said that last season Felicity walked away and Oliver let her.  That makes me hope that this time Oliver will be going to her.... if he ever remembers that they once loved each other.

I tend to think it will be the other way round.  We have Oliver going to her in 5-15 but since her arc goes on until 5-20 I'm thinking she isn't really ready to change what she's doing right now, so Oliver will back off and wait for her to come to him and deal with her current choices when she's ready.  I also tend to think that Oliver will assume any relationship with Felicity is off the table unless she tells him differently.  Though personally, I don't really love putting it solely on one or the other.   

9 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

Raises hand. I did say that I think Oliver will out himself at the end of this season. I even said 100%. But I don't want to eat a shoe so I revise my opinion to 99.5% 

I said I was 100% certain that they would NOT get married for some tropey made up reason, but hey, if it happens I will gladly chow down on any kind of foot ware.  

[LadyChaos]

9 hours ago, Chaser said:

Are shoes a carb or a protein?

A bad carb :p

[Morrigan2575]

@MuuMuuChainsmoker Or @kariyaki please move @tv echo post to the archive.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Trisha]

58 minutes ago, tv echo said:

SA: We’re moving into a very interesting arc for Felicity and a purpose for her that exists outside the team, which I think is incredibly important. 

I didn't notice before that SA referred to Helix as a new purpose for Felicity. I wonder if that means it's not just an organization she has to fight against once they start asking her to do shady stuff, but if it's bigger than that. Like she'll end up taking it over, like Lyla took over Argus?

[Chaser]

I just realized that Felicity finding a life outside the Team is another S3 plot line.

[lemotomato]

TBH, it's the S3 parallels that's keeping me hanging on. If I got through S3, I can get through this season.

[Chaser]

I miss the international promos.

[tv echo]

Here's a thought...

Could Susan have intentionally made it very easy to hack into her computer and find her Oliver file because it's part of a plan to divide Team Arrow (team members versus Oliver)? If so, that would support the theory that she's working with Prometheus.

I'm thinking about what Joe Dinicol said:

Quote

-- JD: "What's cool about the next part of the season is that... you'll see them either pull together or not, based on how strong they've gotten... We've shown a lot of the sort of dissension and the cracks in the team, you know, as they sort of come together and form and put it all together. Um, but I think we'll be surprised at how strong they've actually become, especially in the face of Evelyn detracting - that was a really galvanizing thing for the team... and I think it'll keep them together and make them stronger than even they thought they would be... But there will be a struggle to ... stay strong and stay together because they're facing - you know, Prometheus is a pretty formidable foe, who's really sort of - whose main sort of focus is to - is to sort of turn everyone against, uh, the Green Arrow... And because the team is new, he can become quite successful at times with that, because no one is that close to Oliver yet. So it's a cool dynamic - they're getting very close, but they're also - there's also wedges being pushed in constantly. So it's a very cool back-and-forth in the second half of the season." (Jan. 30, 2017 We Have A Hulk podcast interview with Joe Dinicol, page 52 of Spoilers thread)

I know that Thea and Felicity are not new team members, but still it could all be part of Prometheus' plan to break up the team. Prometheus knows the team members' real identities. Maybe he set it up so that Susan would betray Thea, making Thea antagonistic toward Susan. Then Susan persistently goes after Oliver until he starts dating her, and she tries to manipulate Oliver's emotions.

So maybe 518 (Disbanded) is the episode where Prometheus succeeds in breaking up Team Arrow. And then 519 (Dangerous Liaisons) is the episode where various team members form their own smaller, separate teams (either with other team members or with new people).

518 is also the episode where Evelyn is supposed to return and in a "very surprising way."

Edited February 27, 2017 by tv echo

[Sunshine]

I like the theory but it still goes against everything they are trying to sell in interviews about SW being a good person. She might be a pawn herself who simply would do anything to get the story but didn't mean to develop "genuine feelings."  

I think you could be on to something with 5.18-5.19.