Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Cleanqueen]

Was rewatching 5x12 episode and I noticed that Russian vodka that Anatoly was drinking was the same one in the flashback which was the same one in Susan's apartment. Maybe the connection to this whole thing  is the Russian Vodka lol

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Was rewatching 5x12 episode and I noticed that Russian vodka that Anatoly was drinking was the same one in the flashback which was the same one in Susan's apartment. Maybe the connection to this whole thing  is the Russian Vodka lol

Maybe Susan is Anatoly's long-lost kid or something and that's how she knew about the Bratva!

/crack

[Cleanqueen]

10 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Maybe Susan is Anatoly's long-lost kid or something and that's how she knew about the Bratva!

/crack

and what is that other thing she was asked about during Oliver's time in Russia? 

[bethy]

I'm generally avoiding spoilers, but this episode is being promoted as "Arrow tackles gun violence" AND "Wild Dog's origin story"?

I just... Wow. Those are two storylines that I couldn't be less interested in seeing. 

[calliope1975]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Maybe we should count our blessings. If you read the rest of that EW article (not quoted), they could've picked abortion as their issue...

Head. Desk.

Face. Palm.

I don't see any way for this not to be terribad. Zero. What's gotten into TIIC that they thought this was a good idea? I don't think we can blame this on DC or network interference. 

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

Maybe Felicity, since she's got shot and paralyzed. But the show has forgotten all about that, apparently.

Didn't Felicity shoot someone post her paralysis arc?

49 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Was rewatching 5x12 episode and I noticed that Russian vodka that Anatoly was drinking was the same one in the flashback which was the same one in Susan's apartment. Maybe the connection to this whole thing  is the Russian Vodka lol

LOL I would love it if Oliver made some bad Russian Vodka deal that resulted in her family losing their entire Russian Vodka empire.

[catrox14]

I feel bad for Wild Dong in a way because 1) I don't care about his origin story and 2) it's being used for a Very Special Episode.  He kind of doesn't stand a chance to be liked.

[Morrigan2575]

It seems to me this would have been better as a Flash Episode. Or a Flash episode guest staring Mayor Queen who attends a conference in Central City and has a debate with Joe and Barry over gun violence. 

The biggest problem I can see with this being an Arrow episode, is that Diggle and Oliver can't help but look like hypocrites if they advocate against guns. 

However, a good way to handle this would be to have Lance, Felicity and Curtis arguing for gun control while Diggle, Oliver and Rene are opposed. Then perhaps they learn a lesson and you have your After School Special.

I would have put Tinah on the anti-gun violence kick because she is/was a cop but, she went all gun happy in 11 so that would be hypocritical.

I actually think even having just Lance (as a former cop) advocating for gun control would work. From what I've read on the subject average Cops (not the political types) are generally in favor of gun control.

[MaisyDaisy]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Apparently 513 is not only a vegetable, but it's "broccoli." Way to sell an episode, Marc.

Hey now, don't be bringing broccoli hate speech to this gun fight.

Broccoli is awesome and less annoying then WD and smarter then OQ.

[statsgirl]

The gun issue is too messy for a shoot 'em up show like Arrow.  That guy who killed six Muslims and put five more in the hospital in Quebec City?  He was an avid follower of Trump and the Alt Right.  How can this show deal with that?  Personally I prefer John Oliver talking about Australia's gun laws. 

If Oliver puts gun control legislation in at Star City, it's going to be super hypocritical. Although it may piss of Chase who then sees Oliver as fair game so there is that.

8 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

(And I really have never bought that he's playing her. Went to her at one of the lowest points of his life, and has now slept with her, may ruin his relationship with his sister for her. SHE IS JUST A REPORTER. It makes no sense (though admittedly the show's the show) that he would go to all this effort to keep a regular reporter close to prevent a story. It'd make sense for a supervillain or major henchman, but not a regular reporter.)

I still don't understand the logic in sleeping with  a reporter to keep her from doing a story on you.  That's mega levels of narcissism right there.

8 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm baffled by their choices in this storyline. Not only that but, I get the feeling they (once again) didn't realize how this story would be perceived.  So, now they are just going to pull a last minute double down, telling us Oliver was right to trust Shady Susan while everything on screen, scream Dumbass!

It tells me that they didn't learn anything from the BMD debacle of last season where they made Oliver super stupid for plot. In spite of MG saying they really screwed that up, they're doing the same thing again, and it's not a good look on the titular hero of the show.

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Matt Mitovitch (sp?) recently posted that he'd shared the results of a poll on who the favorite recruits were with Wendy Mercile (Rory at the top and WD waaaay at the bottom) and her response was, "Huh."

I linked that poll to BFS after the mess that was the MSF and asked him to please read it.  So either he doesn't read the tweets he gets (which is very likely) or WM was faking the "Huh".

I don't hate Rene any more but I have zero interest in any scene he's in. There are too many characters on the show these days that I feel like that about.

2 hours ago, Tazmania said:

PS: every day is big news day in USA ... you thought Flynn's resignation was big news? Less than 24 hours later, White House is advised to "check" the ethics of Conway's statements ... 

The episodes we're seeing now were written before the election (EK sent out the Curtis/Felicity/Rory Bratva pic at Hallowe'en) and it really shows.

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Hi Team Arrow

You are doing a really good job so far of avoiding politics and other broader real world gun control discussions.  Please keep this up. 

And now:  bulldogs playing tetherball!

[wonderwall]

21 minutes ago, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

Hi Team Arrow

You are doing a really good job so far of avoiding politics and other broader real world gun control discussions.  Please keep this up. 

And now:  bulldogs playing tetherball!

Oh Muumuu, We missed you D:

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

12 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Oh Muumuu, We missed you D:

Don't worry.  Even when I'm not posting, I've still got my eyes on you guys.  :P

[Starfish35]

We did! :)

[wonderwall]

Just now, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

Don't worry.  Even when I'm not posting, I've still got my eyes on you guys.  :P

Creep :p

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

1 minute ago, wonderwall said:

Creep :p

[finnaire]

Didn’t we just see Oliver take out a baker’s dozen of bad guys John Wick execution style in the flashbacks like a week ago?  No matter who takes which side, how good or bad their arguments are there are going to be guns a blazing by next week’s episode.  I can’t see any politically correct position Mayor Queen can take that won’t make Team Arrow completely hypocritical. 

The only way they could turn this episode around for me is by marking it with the untimely death of a beloved character, taken down in the prime of his life by the very instrument he so carelessly and brazenly persists in misusing*. Maybe that will cause me to pause and contemplate the hazards of gun use in a fake city where random, nameless people are killed with impunity and weapons are more accessible than a good cup of coffee.

*I’m sure after I see his wife and child die needlessly I’ll feel sufficiently penitent for my bad thoughts. But, it will be worth it if he’s gone.

[catrox14]

15 minutes ago, finnaire said:

*I’m sure after I see his wife and child die needlessly I’ll feel sufficiently penitent for my bad thoughts. But, it will be worth it if he’s gone.

To whom are you referring? I sure hope you don't mean Diggle?

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

To whom are you referring? I sure hope you don't mean Diggle?

Probably Wild Dog, we meet his wife and daughter tomorrow night.  And can I say I'm really bitter that WD gets a daughter after the show gave Baby Sara a sex change?

Edited February 15, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Probably Wild Dog, we meet his wife and daughter tomorrow night.  And can I say I'm really bitter that WD gets a daughter after the show gave Baby Sara a sex change?

Oh duh. Of course. Thanks! LOL and yes same here re Sara

[AyChihuahua]

2 hours ago, MaisyDaisy said:

Hey now, don't be bringing broccoli hate speech to this gun fight.

Broccoli is awesome and less annoying then WD and smarter then OQ.

It's quite delicious roasted.

This is going to be a dumpster fire. Arrow's not the show, and Rabid Puppy's not the character.

Edited February 15, 2017 by AyChihuahua

[finnaire]

Yeah, I meant Wild Dong. And by beloved I meant hated. Although, TIIC would obviously disagree.

[BkWurm1]

In season two they had Oliver step in and do a gun buy back to get guns off the street and so I think they could build off that position but I can't even imagine what this "debate" is going to look like in the bunker.  I fear that it's going to be Oliver looking hypocritical and WD elevated since he owns up to his stance and what he does.  

There's much potential for cringing.

Edited February 15, 2017 by BkWurm1

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

In season two they had Oliver step in and do a gun buy back to get guns off the street and so I think they could build off that position but I can't even imagine what this "debate" is going to look like in the bunker.  I fear that it's going to be Oliver looking hypocritical and WD elevated since he owns up to his stance and what he does.  

There's much potential for cringing.

Oh of course! Because Wild Dong has been tagged as being so much like Oliver. I bet he ends up doing a gun buy back himself.

[finnaire]

I saw that tweet by CP about the makeup covering her tattoo and wondered if it was a misdirect. Is it possible that the character is covering up the tattoo so it won’t be noticed?  I just can’t believe they would intentionally show a closeup of her wrist if it didn’t mean something. That shot was otherwise entirely superfluous.

The whole situation with Susan is additionally baffling because I’m sure the Queen children have been conditioned to mistrust and avoid the media, in general. Season 1 did a great job of portraying how they were hounded and harassed by reporters and paparazzi, probably for most of their lives. In fact, Oliver was charged with hitting/kicking/peeing on? one.

So it stretches credulity that Thea would get bamboozled by a reporter or that Oliver, with his additional trust issues, would confide in one.  

[Mellowyellow]

@finnaire the Queen children are pretty but super stupid so not much of a stretch really. 

[BkWurm1]

Didn't Oliver pee on a cop?

[insomniadreams88]

13 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

In season two they had Oliver step in and do a gun buy back to get guns off the street and so I think they could build off that position but I can't even imagine what this "debate" is going to look like in the bunker.  I fear that it's going to be Oliver looking hypocritical and WD elevated since he owns up to his stance and what he does.  

There's much potential for cringing.

You're assuming they remember S2.

I'm dreading the debate in the bunker. Really dreading it. 

[way2interested]

Just now, finnaire said:

So it stretches credulity that Thea would get bamboozled by a reporter or that Oliver, with his additional trust issues, would confide in one.  

To be fair, Thea got back at Susan, threatened her, and vocally expresses disdain that Oliver and Susan are dating. As for Oliver...jury's still out until we find out what happens but it's not looking good.

[Trisha]

From the TV Line article: http://tvline.com/2017/02/14/arrow-spoilers-season-5-episode-13-gun-control-debate/

Quote

When Felicity at one point begs her friends to stop debating, Guggenheim realized she was speaking for “the segment of the population who considers talking about politics to be impolitic, something you’re not supposed to [do] in polite company. When did that happen?”

Felicity doesn't want to talk about gun control? The one character who was shot and paralyzed?? Do these guys even remember what happened on their own show? 

[apinknightmare]

11 minutes ago, finnaire said:

I saw that tweet by CP about the makeup covering her tattoo and wondered if it was a misdirect. Is it possible that the character is covering up the tattoo so it won’t be noticed?

I don't think it's a misdirect. If it is, then Carly Pope's even worse at promoting herself than Chico is at promoting Arrow. I can't imagine that many people are showing positive curiosity about her storyline, so if there were more to that shot then I'd think she'd say something like, "Keep watching!" to keep the suspense going instead of completely dismissing the notion. 

[BkWurm1]

4 minutes ago, Trisha said:

From the TV Line article: http://tvline.com/2017/02/14/arrow-spoilers-season-5-episode-13-gun-control-debate/

Felicity doesn't want to talk about gun control? The one character who was shot and paralyzed?? Do these guys even remember what happened on their own show? 

I can see her trying to shut down a circular argument, but there's no way Felicity would not have a strong opinion or shy from sharing it.

Edited February 15, 2017 by BkWurm1

[way2interested]

Just now, Trisha said:

From the TV Line article: http://tvline.com/2017/02/14/arrow-spoilers-season-5-episode-13-gun-control-debate/

Felicity doesn't want to talk about gun control? The one character who was shot and paralyzed?? Do these guys even remember what happened on their own show? 

She's also a character who used a gun to defend herself, seen her friends use guns to defend themselves and would rather keep the team together, so I can see it.

[BkWurm1]

I don't see why the team wouldn't have one rule for themselves and one for the public.  I suppose that's what they are debating?

[tangerine95]

This episode will be such a mess imo. Sounds like they're basically going to be forcing characters to express whatever POV suits the message they want to send and not what actually makes sense for the characters. I don't think this is an issue arrow should be dealing with cosidering none of the characters had much problem regularly using guns and other weapons and some literally killed people. 

[Trisha]

28 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I can see her trying to shut down a circular argument, but there's no way Felicity would not have a strong opinion or shy from sharing it.

Yeah, shutting down a debate that's going nowhere makes sense, but MG made it sound like she didn't want to discuss it because it isn't "polite." I'm really hoping this is one of those times the showrunners overplay their hand in sound bites. Felicity isn't exactly a character who worries about saying only polite things or censors herself in public. 

On the plus side, my expectations for this episode couldn't be lower. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised?

[Chaser]

45 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

This episode will be such a mess imo. Sounds like they're basically going to be forcing characters to express whatever POV suits the message they want to send and not what actually makes sense for the characters. I don't think this is an issue arrow should be dealing with cosidering none of the characters had much problem regularly using guns and other weapons and some literally killed people. 

That's it exactly. It's not an episode, its a statement. This is not the show nor the writers for that kind of social commentary. 

[weathered1]

Oh, for the love of . . .  Who was clamoring for Arrow to have a "very special episode"? Anyone? Bueller? Given the way they handle regular, run of the mill stories, their ability to do justice to any kind of topical issue is nil. 

And an emphasis on Wild Dong Dung? Seriously? I know most of the opinions on him range from meh to active dislike; I can't stand either him or the actor, so this will be unbearable from the onset. 

The issue itself will inevitably be handled in a ham-handed, clunky, illogical, and totally hypocritical way by those involved in the debate. Because of course. 

 

On another note, the reporter. I know I've already ranted it, but . . . good night, Irene, the "story" just keeps getting dumber. So now, according to spoilers and spec, they may possibly be setting Thea up to take Susan down thereby putting her at odds with her brother. Over this ridiculous, terrible reporter. Sigh. 

So if the "relationship" is "real" (sorry, but I can't think in those terms without the use of air quotes), then Oliver, who has a secret identity, trusts and has feelings for a reporter. Whom his sister actively hates due to said reporter's actions. Who has already made it known she wants to take him down. And who continues to act shadier than the shadiest shade who ever shaded, even after the "relationship" was consummated. I know the writers have often made Oliver so stupid that his IQ rivals (and falls short of) his shoe size, but this is just whole other realm of moronic. 

If he's playing the reporter, then why? Because - even though we haven't seen any signs of this - he suspects she's more than a reporter, i.e., she's working for a big bad and he's running a long con on her in order to find out who that is and why? So he needed to get close to her in order to get access to her place, so that she might drop her guard, etc., and just had to sleep with her (rolling my eyes so hard here) because it came to a point when she was going to suspect something was up if the (supposedly former) manwhore continued to deny her some nookie? 

Even if any of that were true, then he's not only stupid, he's an asshole, because he's willing to sacrifice his relationship with his sister, and he's playing fast and loose with the team's welfare - I almost referred to it as playing Russian roulette with the team, but no one deserves a pun that bad - given the information the reporter could ostensibly publish and/or relay to said big bad at any time. Then, too, this is another huge secret from the team, and he supposedly already learned (multiple times) that keeping secrets from them was a no good, terrible, horrible, very bad idea. So he decides to do it again.

I suppose there could have been foreshadowing in the last ep when he took Dinah on the secret mission, so that a flashback could reveal that he confided his "brilliant" plan to someone, but . . . . there's nothing good here. Just nothing, any way I look at it. 

[AyChihuahua]

6 minutes ago, weathered1 said:

If he's playing the reporter, then why? Because - even though we haven't seen any signs of this - he suspects she's more than a reporter, i.e., she's working for a big bad and he's running a long con on her in order to find out who that is and why? So he needed to get close to her in order to get access to her place, so that she might drop her guard, etc., and just had to sleep with her (rolling my eyes so hard here) because it came to a point when she was going to suspect something was up if the (supposedly former) manwhore continued to deny her some nookie? 

I've never seen a shred of evidence that he is playing her, and in fact there are several pieces of evidence that he's not. I really think that is just viewers hoping against hope he isn't as stupid as he seems. 

But...he is. He just is. And frankly Steve ain't a whole lot brighter if he thinks the magic penis turning her good actually makes Oliver any smarter to get involved with her in the first place.

[weathered1]

^Oh, I know. And I agree. I was just running with it to see if it could make any kind of sense whatsoever. It just doesn't. 

I have to say, even though they have a pattern of making Oliver dumb as a post, the writers seem to almost revel in taking him to new depths of stupid. Doing that to the titular superhero of a show is an interesting choice, to say the least. At times, I almost wonder if that reflects their real thoughts about SA. Regardless, though, it's all just mystifying to me. Truly. 

Edited February 15, 2017 by weathered1

[calliope1975]

1 hour ago, tangerine95 said:

This episode will be such a mess imo. Sounds like they're basically going to be forcing characters to express whatever POV suits the message they want to send and not what actually makes sense for the characters. I don't think this is an issue arrow should be dealing with cosidering none of the characters had much problem regularly using guns and other weapons and some literally killed people. 

Yep, I bet this entire debate will be very close to what happened in the writers' room regardless of it it makes sense for the characters. Because it doesn't. Because they've been flat out murdering bad dudes for 4 years now, oftentimes with guns. 

11 minutes ago, weathered1 said:

Oh, for the love of . . .  Who was clamoring for Arrow to have a "very special episode"? Anyone? Bueller? Given the way they handle regular, run of the mill stories, their ability to do justice to any kind of topical issue is nil. 

I've asked for sooooo many things from this show. Intelligent plots. Consistent characterization. More OTA. Better dialogue. 

This is going to be a special level of awful. I hope traffic's light so I can get home and live chat this debacle. And MG's snarky ass comment about it being this or tackling abortion is such a dick move, I have no idea why he's so sought after as a writer. His personality is about as good as his writing.

[Sunshine]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I can see her trying to shut down a circular argument, but there's no way Felicity would not have a strong opinion or shy from sharing it.

Hard to judge without seeing the scene but this is what I would think.  They can argue in circles and it go no where and accomplish nothing.  

This is not the show to be tackling this debate especially if it's business as usual in the next episode.   

[LadyChaos]

It feels like this ep should really be called 'ode to TPTB political beliefs' with a few character plot points thrown in.... in which case.... I'm out.... 98% of social media, work, and well everything is being consumed by politics and I'm gonna check out if Arrow adds fuel to the fire.

[BkWurm1]

I get the feeling that the "very special episode" of Arrow is less about them having a place to showcase their politics, than a reaction to MG feeling powerless during a crazy political season and wanting to feel like he could do something with his platform, even if I would be very surprised if it's anything really that political or controversial.  Think the daughter on Different Strokes using a copper bowl to wash her hair in rain water but it turning green because of ....dun, dun dun!  Acid rain.  No, I can't remember what hoops they jumped through to explain why she was not just using the shower.    

Edited February 15, 2017 by BkWurm1

[bijoux]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Didn't Oliver pee on a cop?

Peed on a cop, punched a paparazzo.

[EmilyBettFan]

So I don't like wild diggy dong for many reasons and probably one of the top reasons is why he has to yell or loud speak so much. Plus he's so crass. Where was the research for this character? Did they poll any audience before his debut on the show because every poll on these sites have him as being the worst newbie.

Edited February 15, 2017 by EmilyBettFan

[theOAfc]

6 hours ago, Chaser said:

That's it exactly. It's not an episode, its a statement. This is not the show nor the writers for that kind of social commentary. 

These people can't even write basic stuff and they're here acting like they can touch such important issues. The characters will be all over the place because Guggie felt like sharing his political opinions. Tragic. 

[theOAfc]

6 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

 

But...he is. He just is. And frankly Steve ain't a whole lot brighter if he thinks the magic penis turning her good actually makes Oliver any smarter to get involved with her in the first place.

Yeah I think he thinks that if she turns out to not be a snitch, it means oliver did good to trust her and open up to her. Of course he ignores the fact that oliver still didn't figure out fast that the main reason of her approaching him and being with him was to look into him. So eventually he is stupid, naive and desperate to find a new woman to listen to him talking about his manpain. Thus why he opened up so fast. The show tries to make him look developed or grown by having him open up to people but ends up making him look stupid for opening up to people he met just days ago. 

Oliver is simply lucky if she ends up not selling information about  him. But I'm sure they will twist it around to highlight the hero once again. It's his show after all. 

[AyChihuahua]

3 hours ago, theOAfc said:

Yeah I think he thinks that if she turns out to not be a snitch, it means oliver did good to trust her and open up to her. Of course he ignores the fact that oliver still didn't figure out fast that the main reason of her approaching him and being with him was to look into him. So eventually he is stupid, naive and desperate to find a new woman to listen to him talking about his manpain. Thus why he opened up so fast. The show tries to make him look developed or grown by having him open up to people but ends up making him look stupid for opening up to people he met just days ago. 

Oliver is simply lucky if she ends up not selling information about  him. But I'm sure they will twist it around to highlight the hero once again. It's his show after all. 

Yeah, it's like congratulating yourself for getting out of the man-eating tiger's cage without being eaten. Just bc the tiger wasn't hungry right then doesn't mean you're not dumb AF for sauntering on in in the first place.

[insomniadreams88]

Is it bad that I want Oliver to suffer some sort of consequences for Susan? And if it turns out that she doesn't betray him because of whatever, he probably won't.