Spoiler Discussion Thread

[ladylaw99]

Great! Everytime these Ep's open their mouths about a character I end up hating them.  Why do they need to do PR. Why!

[Velocity23]

[bethy]

If they would focus more on creating characters who are sympathetic and relatable instead of thinking they can simply tell people that the new characters are awesome, I think they'd have more success. How have they not learned that especially after all the Wild Dog hype and subsequent lack of positive response from viewers? Even WM recently was like, "Uh, we know people haven't responded to him the way we thought, but just wait...."

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, tangerine95 said:

Not a lot of shows recast a character 3 times

Soap operas do it all the time. Just sayin'.

I wonder if SA's flirtation with no sleeves on the Arrow suit last winter will affect the decision whether or not to put Tina in fishnets.  (Does anyone even wear fishnets any more?  That's so 1960s.)

14 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Also if she has supernatural powers how can anyone be an equal? 

Between her and Rory, so much for the "magic has no place on Arrow" speeches.

I fully expect them to trust her from the start because of Laurel's magic words.  And because the show has so many characters and plots now, there's no time to put in a vetting arc.

I think if there is lots of positive feedback on Oliver and Felicity interacting again, the odds of her being a LI for Oliver lessen.

Edited January 26, 2017 by statsgirl

[Midnight Lullaby]

She is his equal because she is BC so she has to be. No reason required. It's the same as Curtis' evolution into Mr Terrific. I don't know why he decided he wanted to fight, no idea why anyone thinks he is useful when he keeps getting beaten up and he is smart and could contribute better with his brain but he is Mr Terrific so he must be out there fighting.

[Belinea]

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I think if there is lots of positive feedback on Oliver and Felicity interacting again, the odds of her being a LI for Oliver lessen.

For some reason, I just don't think they care anymore about what actually works or what people respond to positively. They want to tell the story that they want to tell, no matter the outcome. Granted, it might not be the case but it sure feels like it.

[Morrigan2575]

11 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

I think the whole equal thing seems to be something that's important to them when it comes to BC. That's how they promoted Sara and now Tina and that's what Laurel spent literally episodes whining about because she didn't think Oliver treated her as an equal. I guess they mean in terms of fighting ability and because BC isn't supposed to be just a sidekick. 

That's exactly what they said about Sarah and it's pissing me off that they're using the same talking points. I shouldn't be surprised because they recycled their Barry talking points for Ray. However, every time I read that Tina is Oliver's equal and he never had that before I'm like WTF? You said that about Sarah! So what, was she just chopped liver? Are you trying to sell this Tina chick as a better fighter than Sara simply Because Comics!

[Cleanqueen]

They just want to shade KC, I am convinced of it. Only person whoever demanded being Oliver's equal was her. lol

[Angel12d]

LOL. Wendy talking about Tina like Sara never existed when we all know Sara could've kicked Oliver's ass if she wanted to. Quit playing, Wendy!

Also, the more they talk about Oliver and Tina's emotional connection, the more I want to poke myself in the eyeball. So that's fun. I just have to laugh now. These writers are gonna do what they want, regardless if it's a good idea or not. Sigh.

[Velocity23]

Every character has an emotional connection to Oliver though. 

[LeighAn]

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

I'm not, but they put last week's ep up on Soundcloud the next day, so maybe they will again? https://soundcloud.com/ewradio

Also, WM is talking more about Tina and Oliver's "emotional" connection: http://tvline.com/2017/01/26/arrow-season-5-spoilers-tina-boland-vigilante/

Haha again the comments are just people saying no thanks you can keep it.

Honestly I just read Wendy's comments about Tina the same as her  comments about Wild Dog. She said the same about him that he's "just like Oliver" she's selling Tina HARD. Probably because if Marc's comments are any indication they already know that most of the audience is prejudiced against liking her already.

[Trisha]

So EW just posted their call with MG on Soundcloud: http://ew.com/tv/2017/01/26/arrow-legends-tomorrow-crossovers/ 

Nothing super juicy but here are the highlights:

• MG talked up BS a lot. He said they took Black Siren back from Flash and put her more in Arrow's orbit so it would open up more stories for them. They planted the redemption idea for BS intentionally for the future. MG mentioned he really wants to write a scene with Lance meeting her.

• He was asked about "badass Felicity" but didn't really say anything new. Just that this arc was planned from the start of the season, and how they wanted to explore her life outside the bunker and outside her relationship from Oliver.

• On Tina, MG implied that she doesn't have any tech associated with her scream. He said he was avoiding using the "m word" but then said he was "hinting at it strongly." So she's pretty much confirmed as a meta.

• Talia will play a pivotal role in both present day and flashbacks. In the FB, she's instrumental in turning Oliver into the guy we see in 1x01.

• Next week's Arrow features the "fastest crossover with Flash" they've ever done. 

[Cleanqueen]

9 minutes ago, Trisha said:

So EW just posted their call with MG on Soundcloud: http://ew.com/tv/2017/01/26/arrow-legends-tomorrow-crossovers/ 

Nothing super juicy but here are the highlights:

• MG talked up BS a lot. He said they took Black Siren back from Flash and put her more in Arrow's orbit so it would open up more stories for them. They planted the redemption idea for BS intentionally for the future. MG mentioned he really wants to write a scene with Lance meeting her.

•  

Does he want to send Lance in to rehab again? why do they want to write a scene with BS and Lance. Also didn't wendy say they were done with her. Or is this up to KC if she wants to be back. Not sure why she'd coming back for guest appearances that shit on her character. 

[AyChihuahua]

Eh, she can meet Lance on one of the other shows. Guggie is an EP on LoT, and Paul B has appeared on LoT before, I believe.

I really think she's done on Arrow, and last night's ratings just added to my near-certainty.

[lemotomato]

13 minutes ago, Trisha said:

MG talked up BS a lot. He said they took Black Siren back from Flash and put her more in Arrow's orbit so it would open up more stories for them. They planted the redemption idea for BS intentionally for the future. MG mentioned he really wants to write a scene with Lance meeting her.

I'm really starting to think that MG gets off on all the abuse he receives on social media.

[Trisha]

1 minute ago, lemotomato said:

I'm really starting to think that MG gets off on all the abuse he receives on social media.

He also said Billy's death gave Felicity a compelling reason to develop a sense of agency which is just ... what?

[bijoux]

7 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Black Canary 4: The Blackest Canary

4ever Canary

[AyChihuahua]

Just now, Trisha said:

He also said Billy's death gave Felicity a compelling reason to develop a sense of agency which is just ... what?

Can you translate that from Guggie's Neptunian to English?

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Does he want to send Lance in to rehab again? 

Maybe they do. Considering the only thing we know that's coming up for Lance other than the BTS photos with Pike is an interview about his addiction right after he gets out of rehab... 

But yeah, that's a terrible idea. Hasn't Lance been through enough? Or ... what if Oliver thinks that he can get through to BS by having Lance talk to her? (Please don't do this.) 

20 minutes ago, Trisha said:

 

• He was asked about "badass Felicity" but didn't really say anything new. Just that this arc was planned from the start of the season, and how they wanted to explore her life outside the bunker and outside her relationship from Oliver.

So, they really love saying they want to give Felicity a story "outside her relationship with Oliver," don't they? That's just getting annoying at this point. 

[LeighAn]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Maybe they do. Considering the only thing we know that's coming up for Lance other than the BTS photos with Pike is an interview about his addiction right after he gets out of rehab... 

But yeah, that's a terrible idea. Hasn't Lance been through enough? Or ... what if Oliver thinks that he can get through to BS by having Lance talk to her? (Please don't do this.) 

So, they really love saying they want to give Felicity a story "outside her relationship with Oliver," don't they? That's just getting annoying at this point. 

I think they just mean outside her having sex and living with Oliver haha. Because last night and going forward it seems their two storylines are very much about each other and the conflict between them in how to handle Prometheus.

[Trisha]

5 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

So, they really love saying they want to give Felicity a story "outside her relationship with Oliver," don't they? That's just getting annoying at this point. 

I'm pretty sure he specifically said "outside of her former romantic relationship with Oliver" just to really hammer it home...

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I think they just mean outside her having sex and living with Oliver haha. Because last night and going forward it seems their two storylines are very much about each other and the conflict between them in how to handle Prometheus.

Oh, I'm just tired of the same wording over and over again. Just like the one Q about Thea in all the interviews posted yesterday was basically what they had said over the summer too. It's just nothing new. 

[apinknightmare]

56 minutes ago, Trisha said:

• Next week's Arrow features the "fastest crossover with Flash" they've ever done. 

Gotta find out how Tina got that idiotic meta power, I guess?

[Chaser]

The promo made me forgot Tina is the C plot of the next episode. That's interesting.

[Sakura12]

Let me get this straight, Tina is the bestest fighter ever, she beats up men that hurt women and has an emotional connection to Oliver. So she's Sara 2.0? Laurel was Sara -30.5. How does she have emotional connection with Oliver? Sara has an emotional connection because they actually went through some horrible stuff together and had a history before that. This is some random chick that has a meta power.  I'm glad I gave up on this show, because Sara is the Black Canary in this universe for me. 

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, Trisha said:

So EW just posted their call with MG on Soundcloud: http://ew.com/tv/2017/01/26/arrow-legends-tomorrow-crossovers/ 

Nothing super juicy but here are the highlights:

• MG talked up BS a lot. He said they took Black Siren back from Flash and put her more in Arrow's orbit so it would open up more stories for them. They planted the redemption idea for BS intentionally for the future. MG mentioned he really wants to write a scene with Lance meeting her.

• He was asked about "badass Felicity" but didn't really say anything new. Just that this arc was planned from the start of the season, and how they wanted to explore her life outside the bunker and outside her relationship from Oliver.

• On Tina, MG implied that she doesn't have any tech associated with her scream. He said he was avoiding using the "m word" but then said he was "hinting at it strongly." So she's pretty much confirmed as a meta.

• Talia will play a pivotal role in both present day and flashbacks. In the FB, she's instrumental in turning Oliver into the guy we see in 1x01.

• Next week's Arrow features the "fastest crossover with Flash" they've ever done. 

But but Katie wont be back next season, they don't want to deal with her...

Though it was interesting that MG made it known that GB wanted another Black Canary so they had to bring one in, it wasn't by choice. Which we all thought but it's confirmed now.

[lemotomato]

17 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

But but Katie wont be back next season, they don't want to deal with her...

Didn't he also flat out deny that KC was leaving the show when someone asked him on tumblr last season? Hmm.

I'm sure his talking about possible future storylines has nothing to do with keeping her fans hanging around waiting for something to happen. Oh wait, that's what they all tried to do with the cliffhanger and all the talk immediately after the midseason finale.

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, lemotomato said:

Didn't he also flat out deny that KC was leaving the show when someone asked him on tumblr last season? Hmm.

I'm sure his talking about possible future storylines has nothing to do with keeping her fans hanging around waiting for something to happen. Oh wait, that's what they all tried to do with the cliffhanger and all the talk immediately after the midseason finale.

He denied that she quit. If they are talking about that to keep fans hanging around then he shouldn't waste his time tbh.

[lemotomato]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

He denied that she quit. If they are talking about that to keep fans hanging around then he shouldn't waste his time tbh.

So if she didn't quit, doesn't that mean she was fired?

And judging by how many posts I saw that hoped for the BS redemption arc that MG talked about in that EW interview (BS gets redeemed! Rejoins the Team! Oliver falls in love with her! GA/BS endgame!) I don't think he's wasting him time at all.

[Primal Slayer]

4 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

So if she didn't quit, doesn't that mean she was fired?

And judging by how many posts I saw that hoped for the BS redemption arc that MG talked about in that EW interview (BS gets redeemed! Rejoins the Team! Oliver falls in love with her! GA/BS endgame!) I don't think he's wasting him time at all.

She was as fired as Colin, Caity, Susan were.

[Chaser]

I frankly don't care how much they talk warm and fuzzy about KC/Laurel. Actions speak louder than words and Felicity punched her in the face.

[apinknightmare]

"Spectre of the Gun" + an attack on city hall + Wild Dog's past + SA calling this a "very special episode of Arrow" = if they're tackling gun control, please please please don't royally screw it up

[statsgirl]

Gun control would play well in Australia, Canada and various other parts of the world but isn't it too big a risk for the US?

If GB wants a Black Canary on Arrow, he should write some storylines for one that don't completely suck.

[way2interested]

11 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

"Spectre of the Gun" + an attack on city hall + Wild Dog's past + SA calling this a "very special episode of Arrow" = if they're tackling gun control, please please please don't royally screw it up

Dear Lord, I hope that's not it.

[apinknightmare]

13 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Dear Lord, I hope that's not it.

IIRC an extra posted a pic of herself that was set dressing for what looks like a vigil - I'd bet actual money there's going to be a mass shooting.

[way2interested]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

IIRC an extra posted a pic of herself that was set dressing for what looks like a vigil - I'd bet actual money there's going to be a mass shooting.

 I remember that too. That sounds like that could be it....

[insomniadreams88]

25 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

IIRC an extra posted a pic of herself that was set dressing for what looks like a vigil - I'd bet actual money there's going to be a mass shooting.

That's what I was thinking. And with the front of Oliver's desk covered in that BTS photo, my guess is bullet holes there. (Now to start wondering who's on the couch in that photo again.)

[Sunshine]

There was some spec that maybe it was Artemis.  We are supposed to find out what happens to her at some point.

[BkWurm1]

11 hours ago, Sunshine said:

Have we had any villains this year, present day, besides Tobias Church and Prometheus?

The wrestler guy.  Otherwise...???

 

I'm not a fan of bringing on yet another BC but I was thinking about the dialogue of the most recent episode and there wasn't anything said between Oliver and Felicity that could be read as putting more distance between them.  In fact, that was the closest and most on the same page we've seen them this year (well, by the end).  I'd think that if they were closing a door, right before they introduced the new BC that would have been a perfect episode to toss in some new reasons why Oliver and Felicity couldn't or shouldn't be a couple again.  

Instead the fact that he killed her boyfriend got treated like he borrowed her car and got a parking ticket ddin't tell her.  All we saw and heard was how well they knew and cared for each other.  This would have been a perfect time to drop a line like "I can't look at you like that ever again" or "we'll never have that kind of relationship again, but" like a tie in to being an ex like Laurel, something that would make it not only that they broke up but that they couldn't work out as a couple again.  But there was nothing but a showcase of their connection.

Makes me more hopeful that Tina may really be just a new recruit/co leader in the field.   

I do think we are going to find out the Tina Boland isn't all there is to here name.  Maybe it's the name she went by after she  left some foreign land where her mother Lady Shiva trained or something.  Pulling some variation of Dina Drake isn't off the table but maybe the comic connection is some other comic character that has been a Canary rather than the Canary.  I know this is all spec we've done before, but with the hint dropped about her connection to a well known comic character, if she's not Laurel and Sara's cousin on her mother's side (and Dina a family name, lol) maybe she's the daughter of someone else.  

How old was Slade Wilson's kid?  Did he have a daughter?  

Personally i still wish she'd turned out to be Oliver and Thea's sister, lol.  He likes sisters you know.   

[GirlvsTV]

There was barely an episode of season 4 that didn't get mileage out of masked 'ghosts' arriving at various locations and spraying bullets everywhere. IIRC, 4x09 aired not too long after the terrible attack in Paris and I remember at the time feeling particularly uncomfortable with the holiday party getting shot up by masked gunmen. 

I find the notion a show that has routinely used scenes of mass gun violence as entertaining action sequences suddenly treating a similar scenario with profound emotional significance as some kind of commentary on gun control to be sort of hypocritical.

From the episode description though, maybe it will be more WD dealing with ptsd or some other emotional trauma he hasn't resolved after being in the military.

Either way, PASS.

2 minutes ago, GirlvsTV said:

In trying to edit my post, I some how managed to quote it in my post and now I can't delete it.

I should go to bed.

Edited January 27, 2017 by GirlvsTV

[lemotomato]

15 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Instead the fact that he killed her boyfriend got treated like he borrowed her car and got a parking ticket ddin't tell her.  All we saw and heard was how well they knew and cared for each other.  This would have been a perfect time to drop a line like "I can't look at you like that ever again" or "we'll never have that kind of relationship again, but" like a tie in to being an ex like Laurel, something that would make it not only that they broke up but that they couldn't work out as a couple again.

Like in 3.15, when Laurel wanted to go after MM to avenge Sara's death, but Oliver told said no, and she told him "It's hard to remember a time when I was actually in love with you." This of course also after he lied to her face about going after Sara's killer, not knowing that Thea had confessed to her.

[calliope1975]

8 hours ago, LeighAn said:

Honestly I just read Wendy's comments about Tina the same as her  comments about Wild Dog. She said the same about him that he's "just like Oliver" she's selling Tina HARD. Probably because if Marc's comments are any indication they already know that most of the audience is prejudiced against liking her already.

Perhaps WM should realize that her interviews make people do the opposite of her goal. If they want Tina and/or WD to be liked characters, stop talking about them. Of course, writing them better would be a nice option, too. 

7 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I'm really starting to think that MG gets off on all the abuse he receives on social media.

That is an absolute truth.

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

IIRC an extra posted a pic of herself that was set dressing for what looks like a vigil - I'd bet actual money there's going to be a mass shooting.

Oh, please no. Arrow has no business taking on any type of very special episode. Especially mass shootings with the gun violence on this show. 

[Chaser]

 I liked WD in the last episode but I'm still not interested in watching a backstory ep on him.

The tensions run high bit is way too vague. Felicity and Oliver cause he wants to play Mayor? Felicity and Oliver cause of Felicity's actions? Neither and it's the Team as a whole? Is it a plot line from Russia?

[Velocity23]

This sounds like wanting to write more for Helena or wanting Helena back that never happens. 

[bijoux]

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I do think we are going to find out the Tina Boland isn't all there is to here name.  Maybe it's the name she went by after she  left some foreign land where her mother Lady Shiva trained or something.  Pulling some variation of Dina Drake isn't off the table but maybe the comic connection is some other comic character that has been a Canary rather than the Canary.  I know this is all spec we've done before, but with the hint dropped about her connection to a well known comic character, if she's not Laurel and Sara's cousin on her mother's side (and Dina a family name, lol) maybe she's the daughter of someone else.  

How old was Slade Wilson's kid?  Did he have a daughter?  

I think he did in the comics. On this show, we heard about Joe. Billy Wintergreen was his godfather. And on LoT, in potential 2046, there was Grant Wilson. I have no clue how old he was in 2046, but he was active then as well as 15 years prior when he took over SC and de-armed Oliver.

[dtissagirl]

6 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

Oh, please no. Arrow has no business taking on any type of very special episode. Especially mass shootings with the gun violence on this show. 

Oh my fuck. Amell actually referred to this episode as "a very special episode" in that Twitter Q&A from a couple of days ago.

Oh my dear lords of kobol please send your robot cylons to exterminate everything.

[Morrigan2575]

Well, I was already thinking about skipping it since its a Wild Dog Flashback episode. I like the guy but, I'm not really all that interested in his Origin story. 

I'll take a wait and see on the Gun Violence storyline. It's not an awful idea but, I don't know these guys can pull it off. 

Edited January 27, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[statsgirl]

Awwww, that brings back memories of when NBC was "Must See TV" and there were Very Special Episodes of ER.

Many thanks to @tv echo for transcribing the Superhero Insider podcast, and even more so with the verbal hesitations included.  This paragraph struck me:

Quote

-- Interviewer (Natalie Abrams) said that, in 510, Black Siren was definitely a villain, but one that Oliver still hoped to redeem, and asked whether they hope to explore a Black Siren redemption story down the line, MG: "Well, I will say that that was very intentional. You know, like I said, there's a good chunk of the end of the episode was about sort of putting, uh, Black Siren back in Oliver's orbit. Um, we could have very easily just have returned her to the Pipeline in Central City. But, um, Oliver and us as writers wanted to keep Black Siren close. Um, you know, just yesterday in the writers' room we were talking about all the potential stories for Black Siren. So, um, you know, assuming, uh, Katie's up for it, you haven't seen the last of her, of Black Siren. I think there's a lot of interesting stuff, uh, to be done. At the end of the day, like, you know, just - going back to the point of toying with people's emotions - you know, we really do break story according to a very simple barometer, which is, 'Is it interesting?' You know, 'Do we have stories to tell?' Um, uh, Black Siren - there's a lot of potential there. I mean, you know, just this morning, driving into work, I was thinking about just how much I wanted to see a scene where, uh, Lance meets Black Siren. Um, I just think that would be, you know, really really rich, juicy emotional stuff. So, um, again with Katie's, uh - with Katie's, uh, participation, you haven't seen the last of her."

That's 23 verbal hesitations in just over 7 lines.  In the previous paragraph about the "heartbreaking" (sorry, Natalie) reveal that it wasn't really Laurel, there were 5 in 4 lines; in the following Felicity paragraph there were 8 in 6 lines, five of them "you know"s; in Oliver's 6 in 4 1/2 lines (he was talking spoilers so I would expect more); in the Talia paragraph, 2 'um's and one 'you know' in 4+ lines;  and in the crossovers paragraphs, 2 'um's and one 'uh' in 4 1/2 lines.

Roughly there are three times as many verbal hesitations when he is talking about future Black Siren storylines than when he is talking about other storylines.  Yeah, MG is very excited to have her back (sarcasm).

Quote

Um, you know... last year, when, you know, Greg said, 'I really want, uh, one of the new recruits to be a New Black Canary, um, we went back to the writers' room, um, and said, 'okay, but how - you know, how do we make that character or that Canary different from the two we've already seen on the show?'

Wow, that's tepid enthusiasm even from GB. It makes it would more like he's throwing the idea out there rather than adhering to the gospel of Green Arrow.

[tv echo]

You're welcome!  I think the "uh" was from MG, not GB. Also, I forgot to close-quote the GB quote, so it should read: "Um, you know... last year, when, you know, Greg said, 'I really want, uh, one of the new recruits to be a New Black Canary,' um, we went back to the writers' room, um, and said, 'okay, but how - you know, how do we make that character or that Canary different from the two we've already seen on the show?'..."

Edited January 27, 2017 by tv echo

[AyChihuahua]

I would tear my own face off if I had to converse with someone with all those verbal tics.