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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

I just spoked consistency: Laurel blames others for her choices and she blames Sara's choices on others too. I'm so bitter.

 

I should be more excited for this episode, but Laurel and No Felicity are dragging me down.

 

This is stupid too, because Sara flat-out told her that she wanted to go, like five minutes before she got trashed. I get misplaced anger, I guess...hopefully it doesn't last too long. Nyssa could always tranq her to give her time to calm down.

Edited by apinknightmare
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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

I was referring to KLs comments at DragonCon how when Nyssa first meets Laurel shes impressed by something that Laurel is doing physically.

So I figure they'll have Nyssa say something like "I'm impressed, it took Sara a long time to master that move" or even better, "Sara was never able to perfect that move".

Edited by Morrigan2575
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discoduck227

discoduck227

I would love to see see Nyssa bitch slap Laurel. That's not going to happen though. I'm sure Laurel will give Nyssa some really pompous speech about what she did to Sara. I'm sorry but if I remember correctly, no one forced Sara to get on that boat and go back. Plus Laurel was damn happy to see her go judging from her expression. And seriously? Merlyn as a suspect? If he'd wanted Sara dead, he could have taken care of that when they were both in the LoA. 

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Orion

Orion

Didn't we already suffer through 2 or 3 episodes of Laurel blaming the wrong person for the death of someone? And that arc was so much fun they just wanted to double down on that again.

Show, you are killing me here, I want to be excited about you.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Didn't we already suffer through 2 or 3 episodes of Laurel blaming the wrong person for the death of someone? And that arc was so much fun they just wanted to double down on that again.

Show, you are killing me here, I want to be excited about you.

 

Maybe it won't be so bad?

 

 

positivity for the day exhausted

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Jessie2009

Jessie2009

(edited)

 

f he'd wanted Sara dead, he could have taken care of that when they were both in the LoA.

I don't think he killed Sara, but I don't think him and Sara were in the league at the same time. He went when Tommy was 8, and didn't they say he was only gone for 2 years? I assumed when he came back home, that's when he left the league, so I don't think Merlyn and Sara would have ever been in the league at the same time.

 

 

Isn't this the ep where she's in Central City? Apparently there's a "mention" of her or something per that troll Guggenheim.

I think he said Felicity is out of town in Central City in 3x04, but we'll still see her in the episode. I'm guessing we'll have a scene with her on the phone with either Oliver or Diggle while she's in Central City. 

Edited by Jessie2009
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TanyaKay

TanyaKay

Laurel (Katie Cassidy) keeps her distance from Nyssa, as she blames her sister’s death on her involvement with the League of Assassins.

 

 

So in character, always placing the blame elsewhere. How about the fact that she died b/c she was meeting you on that roof?

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

Do we think it's at all possible that Laurel is going to be a villain/dark, at least for awhile? I'm trying to figure out what MG or AK meant when they said that Sara's fridging would put Laurel on her awesome path, and that it was a trajectory the show had never explored. So how is it different? We've seen Roy train and apprentice under Oliver to become a hero; we've seen Oliver and Sara return to Starling as fully-formed vigilantes trying to right wrongs; we're going to see Thea training under a madman, so her morality is in question. What's left? What would be a different trajectory for the Black Canary?

 

(It should go without saying at this point, but I don't actually care about Laurel's trajectory in any way, no matter what. But if the writers believe that her choosing to take up her sister's mantle and be a Special Selfless Warrior Princess is somehow an interesting angle, they are even dumber than I thought.)

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KirkB

KirkB

I don't see any reason Merlyn would do it. For one, we don't know if he's even aware of who Sara was, let alone would have been able to recognize her enough to track her to that rooftop and call her by name. And besides, Merlyn knows Ra's. Killing one of his assassins (let alone his daughter's ex/current girlfriend) is a surefire way to get Ra's and the League after you. Last time I checked he's trying to stay OFF their radar.

 

Komodo may turn out to be the one who fired the arrows. If he is the mystery won't be who killed Sara anymore but who hired him.

 

Cupid is still a possibility, since (he? she?) is supposed to be obsessed with the Arrow. But then again whoever it was called Sara by name.

 

In the end it doesn't really matter, since the stories aren't going to be about Sara or her murder. They're going to be about Oliver suffering and Laurel being broken down so she can be bolstered back up into the fishnets.

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writersblock51

writersblock51

Malcolm being Sara's killer makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. But since we don't know who knows who Komodo is, he'd hardly be a suspect at this point. I think Nyssa will know who he is.

 

I don't think it's Cupid either because Sara seemed to recognize the archer.

 

the preview clips do absolutely nothing to encourage me to watch, live or DVR.  The show has a bad habit of following up a strong episode with a Laurel-heavy one that sucks momentum and joy out.  I would have hoped that the EPs would have figured that out by now but clearly, they have no idea

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

the preview clips do absolutely nothing to encourage me to watch, live or DVR. The show has a bad habit of following up a strong episode with a Laurel-heavy one that sucks momentum and joy out. I would have hoped that the EPs would have figured that out by now but clearly, they have no idea

I think we have to be prepared for the rest of the eps to be Laurel-heavy, unfortunately. Not that they will be, but...

Edited by apinknightmare
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KirkB

KirkB

(edited)

I'm not saying it IS Cupid (obviously I have no idea) but since we also don't know who Cupid is it could be someone Sara knew. Or DO we know and I've just forgotten?

Edited by KirkB
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quarks

quarks

I'm not that sure that all of the upcoming episodes will be Laurel heavy.  Episode 2, certainly.  Episode 4, probably. But KC has also been heading out to fashion events, and we know that episode 5 is very much focused on Felicity's backstory, and episode 8 is the Flash crossover event - and KC hasn't been in any of the pictures for those.

 

Regarding Sara's murderer, a) I'm wondering if we should have a separate thread for that, since speculation will include both casting spoilers and stuff seen on the show, and b) I think this is the current list of suspects, apart from the producers, in no particular order:

 

1. R'as Al Ghul.  Obvious choice number one.

2. Malcolm Merlyn. Obvious choice number two.

3. Thea (this would be an interesting twist)

4. Roy (ditto)

5. Komodo

6. Another League of Assassins person

7. Amanda Waller. Ok, ok, yes, I know, she doesn't shoot a bow, BUT she's the sort of person who would kill Sara off so that Laurel could become a vigilante. In fact thinking of it that way, she's the most obvious person on this list.

8. Cupid

9. Felicity's still unknown father 

10. Either of the two new characters we just met in Hong Kong.

 

I'm eliminating Slade since I think Sara's reaction would have been different, Deadshot because he doesn't use a bow, Ray because Ray would have stalked Sara, anyone associated with Brother Blood because again, I think Sara's reaction would have been different, Helena for the same reasons, a drug influenced Oliver because I'm hoping the show doesn't go there, and Batman because Batman.

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Freckles101

Freckles101

Wait so what does Sara's death do to that whole weird spoiler thing about Laurel's ~question of the season wondering if she can be her sister or w/e? (I can't remember the exact wording.) I guess that makes more sense now?...

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ostentatious

ostentatious

(edited)

Noticed from the transcript that Sara has a line on the rooftop telling Oliver she overheard their radio chatter and that's how she found him, and that Felicity needs to change up her signals more often.

The scene immediately following? The hospital corridor scene where Ray tells her he found her by tracking her phone.

Ray knows about Team Arrow now. So happy their shit comms protocols are finally biting them in the ass.

I think at Buy More, he was trying to hire Felicity Smoak for QC, but at the hospital he was trying to hire the Arrow's Mission Control. He isn't the Atom yet, but he has a plan. Acquirers Gonna Acquire. That's just how they do. So for him, being the Atom means hiring the best, and it isn't often you stumble across that kind of candidate.

I brought this to spoilers because of the pic we got from...two or three? Of her walking into his office to, most speculated, accept his job offer. He had a weird guilty look on his face, a hiding something face. I had interpreted that to indicate he knew about TA before he even showed up, but I think now it indicates he learned about TA during the premiere.

Which is so much better, because it is active and in the moment.

Edited by thecatbastet
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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

Do we think it's at all possible that Laurel is going to be a villain/dark, at least for awhile? I'm trying to figure out what MG or AK meant when they said that Sara's fridging would put Laurel on her awesome path, and that it was a trajectory the show had never explored. So how is it different? We've seen Roy train and apprentice under Oliver to become a hero; we've seen Oliver and Sara return to Starling as fully-formed vigilantes trying to right wrongs; we're going to see Thea training under a madman, so her morality is in question. What's left? What would be a different trajectory for the Black Canary?

 

Laurel visits Dinah in Central City and gets residual radiation from the exploded particle accelerator, somehow. Instant Canary cry--hello, Canon! (If this ever happens, I am so sorry for ever putting this out into the universe.)

 

Wait so what does Sara's death do to that whole weird spoiler thing about Laurel's ~question of the season wondering if she can be her sister or w/e? (I can't remember the exact wording.) I guess that makes more sense now?...

 

I think that question for Laurel was "Am I my sister or am I my own person?" Or something like that. And, yeah, I guess her identity issue this season will be, if she puts on Sara's magical mask/jacket combo and follows the vigilante life, is she trying to become her sister or honoring Sara's death by becoming something else--someone else. I just hope they don't do another 4-5-episode arc that dwells too much on Laurel's issues again. (Show, please remember that you're supposed to be Arrow and not an Arrow/BC adaptation.)

 

My guess for the whodunnit arc of the show: I will go way out of left field and say Talia al Ghul. Seems like Nyssa is the favored daughter of Ra's in the Arrow universe. Perhaps, she resented that Sara came back with Nyssa and had issues with Sara as the "beloved." I don't really see why Ra's would kill Sara when she returned to Nyssa/the League already and Malcolm has no, as yet, credible motivation. Is Komodo part of the LoA? 'Cause if he isn't then how does Sara know him? From Sara's reaction, it seemed like she knew who the murdering archer was.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I don't know who killed Sara, but, at this point, I'm not sure I care.  If I had to guess, it's another LOA assassin sent by Ra's (not Malcolm).

 

If Laurel blames Nyssa for Sara's involvement with the League of Assassins, then why was Laurel so happy when Sara left to rejoin the LOA  last season?  When Sara was swept into the water (again) six or so years ago, she was probably picked up by the LOA.  Nyssa is likely the one to save Sara from being killed and the one to teach her how to survive and fight.   And if Laurel is so grief-stricken at Sara's death now, then why was she so hostile and bitter - showing no joy whatsoever - when she discovered Sara was alive last season?  She's also never asked Sara about what she went through when she was away.  I just don't buy that Laurel loves or ever loved Sara.  At best, she regarded Sara with tolerant affection.  At worst, she viewed Sara as competition - for her parents' love and for Oliver.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think the EPs are going to make Laurel a villain.  They seem pretty committed to their original vision of Laurel as this heroic, saving-the-world, 'compassionate' person (gag).  She may be tempted to go dark, but if so, they'll probably just have Oliver pull her back into the light because he knows her to her bones, that she's a good person, and he doesn't want her to end up like him - or some similar vomit-inducing BS.  This will, of course, bring them closer together (as their present-day selves, with no secrets) (add sarcasm).

 

We've been wondering, with bitterness, about why they'd have Sara flashbacks now that Sara is dead.  Considering how the EPs love parallels, we're now likely going to be subjected to flashbacks of Sara training with Nyssa, cross-cut with present-day scenes of Laurel training with... Ted Grant?  LOL

Edited by tv echo
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quarks

quarks

I really don't understand what motives Malcolm has for killing Sara.

 

 

This is Malcolm Merlyn, who managed to come up with a motivation to destroy most of a city, killed many of his co-conspirators along the way, and was thrilled that his daughter shot him in the chest.  And who has a long list of reasons to want to make Oliver more sad and unstable.

 

The main reason for "obvious" though is that Merlyn is that basically, we've seen five characters use a bow as a primary/major weapon: Oliver, Yao Fei, Shado, Helena, Roy, and Malcolm. Yao Fei and Shado are dead.  Helena is probably in jail, and the dialogue didn't fit her.  Roy would be an awesome, awesome twist and I will jump for joy if the show went that route and blamed it on the lingering Mirakuru because that sets all up sorts of fun, but...right now the show seems to be focusing on a Roy/Oliver partnership.  There is a slight chance that a Vertigo-influenced Oliver killed Sara (I'm seeing a lot of speculation on this elsewhere), which would tie into Oliver saying his real fear is Oliver Queen, but otherwise doesn't seem to work with the theme the show is going for this season.

 

So that leaves Merlyn as the remaining major character who wields a bow.

 

On reconsideration, I'm moving Ray back into the suspect column. We don't know if he can use a bow or not, and in the comics he's associated with the Justice League, two points against him, but the writers like playing against expectations and some of what he pulled in this last episode was really questionable. Also unnecessary -  after last season, why on earth would any corporate board want Oliver Queen back as CEO if they had any other alternative?  From the dialogue, it seemed that Oliver was the only person trying to become CEO before Ray showed up, and even then, he was still going to have to try to convince the board that he would do a better job this time. I don't think Ray Palmer needed QC data or anything else; he just had to show up.

 

Granted, that bit also set up the distrust between Ray and Felicity that will be played with, but still, Ray didn't come off as particularly trustworthy to me.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I'm not that sure that all of the upcoming episodes will be Laurel heavy.  Episode 2, certainly.  Episode 4, probably. But KC has also been heading out to fashion events, and we know that episode 5 is very much focused on Felicity's backstory, and episode 8 is the Flash crossover event - and KC hasn't been in any of the pictures for those.

 

Yeah, I didn't express myself well. I don't think that they necessarily will be, just that we should be prepared for it, because it seems like she's gonna get more screentime this season than she did last.

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tv echo

tv echo

I don't think Sara's killer is Malcolm.  My recollection is that everyone other than Thea (and Moira) thinks Malcolm is dead.  So when Sara first saw her killer on the rooftop, she would've said something like "I thought you were dead" and not "what are you doing here".  

 

I think her killer is likely some LOA assassin that she knows, sent by Ra's al Ghul - perhaps to punish her for leaving the LOA last year or perhaps to punish Nyssa for some reason.

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quarks

quarks

Last season, Moira told the League of Assassins that Malcolm was still alive, which was very nice of her.

 

Sara then went back to the League of Assassins at the end of last season.

 

Granted, we've seen nothing on screen that indicates the League bothered to tell either Nyssa or Sara about this important little detail, and if Sara did know I would have thought she'd have the courtesy to mention this to Oliver instead of wasting time giving anvil-thumping speeches about masks, but it's not an impossible bit of knowledge for her to have, either.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

quarks, you're right.  If Sara knew Malcolm was alive, then it could be Malcolm.  (I didn't recall Moira telling the LOA that Malcolm was still alive.)

 

I wasn't sure where to post this - although it's behind the scenes stuff, it's for a future episode, so here's hoping I picked the right thread!

 

CW's ‘Arrow'-'The Flash’ Crossover: Behind the Scenes With Star Emily Bett Rickards (Exclusive Photos)
PHOTOS |  By Emily Bett Rickards on October 8, 2014 @ 11:45 am
http://www.thewrap.com/arrow-the-flash-crossover-behind-the-scenes-with-star-emily-bett-rickards-exclusive-photos/

 

I'm wondering what #12 ("My best friend") is...

Edited by tv echo
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JJ928

JJ928

(edited)

So something Oliver said in The Calm has sorta been bother me. During his date with Felicity when he's talking about seeing people as targets, he said: "And when I decided to come home, I didn't know how to turn that off."  Now it may be nothing, and more than likely it just sounded good to the writers & they went with it. But this statement has been bugging me. All this time we've been told Oliver wanted nothing more than to come home, he wast stuck on the island, forced to work for Waller, and who knows what else in the future seasons. Now I'm wondering if he ended up on that Island again by choice, or if he was planning on staying dead. Ugh, I don't know why this is bugging me so much, especially since it'll probably end up being meaningless.

 

I wasn't sure if this should go in this thread or in the Oliver Queen thread, putting it here because of the date spoiler.

Edited by JJ928
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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So something Oliver said in The Calm has sorta been bother me. During his date with Felicity when he's talking about seeing people as targets, he said: "And when I decided to come home, I didn't know how to turn that off."  Now it may be nothing, and more than likely it just sounded good to the writers & they went with it. But this statement has been bugging me. All this time we've been told Oliver wanted nothing more than to come home, he wast stuck on the island, forced to work for Waller, and who knows what else in the future seasons. Now I'm wondering if he ended up on that Island again by choice, or if he was planning on staying dead. Ugh, I don't know why this is bugging me so much, especially since it'' probably end up being meaningless.

 

Responding in spoilers w/o spec thread

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ban1o

ban1o

A bit strange that after the promotion for Felicity joining the Flash in 1x04 she isn't mentioned in that ep's description...at all. 

that is strange. Maybe she's not in the episode that much and it's more of a cameo? YOu still think they would have mentioned her though. Colin Donell's return was emphasized in the episode 2 description. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

that is strange. Maybe she's not in the episode that much and it's more of a cameo? YOu still think they would have mentioned her though. Colin Donell's return was emphasized in the episode 2 description. 

 

That's because we know who Tommy is. Given The Flash's premiere audience numbers, there's a lot of people watching it who a) don't watch Arrow and b) probably don't even know who Felicity is. They'll tease us with her going to Central City - we're the ones they want to tune in for Felicity.

Edited by apinknightmare
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

^ There is tons of people who watch both. 

And most people don't really read press releases so it doesn't really matter in terms of ratings. 

 

...I never wrote that there weren't?

 

And you just invalidated your own point. It's strange Felicity's not mentioned in the press release, but it doesn't matter because most people don't read press releases? Like I said - they're trying to entice people who watch Arrow and don't watch The Flash to watch The Flash. Per spoilers, Oliver's going to have a talk with Felicity and convince her to go to Central City, and I'm sure it'll be part of some promo that airs during Arrow, so that we—the people who know Felicity—will want to tune in to see what she's doing there. That's the point - to get the people who wouldn't usually watch The Flash to watch The Flash.

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

I apologize because I know these same things get asked over and over, but I don't really want to go back through pages of this forum to find the answer.  I'm super lazy like that.  Which episode of Arrow is the one that Felicity will mostly be missing from based on the spoilers?

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I apologize because I know these same things get asked over and over, but I don't really want to go back through pages of this forum to find the answer.  I'm super lazy like that.  Which episode of Arrow is the one that Felicity will mostly be missing from based on the spoilers?

 

3x04 - The Magician

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

That's because we know who Tommy is. Given The Flash's premiere audience numbers, there's a lot of people watching it who a) don't watch Arrow and b) probably don't even know who Felicity is. They'll tease us with her going to Central City - we're the ones they want to tune in for Felicity.

This is a good point. Don't really know how many more viewers Flash needs though lol :P 

 

So is Thea just coming back out of her free will? Is this some sort of set up by Merlyn? What about all her training? I am pretty confused. 

Edited by ban1o
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

This is a good point. Don't really know how many more viewers Flash needs though lol :P

So is Thea just coming back out of her free will? Is this some sort of set up by Merlyn? What about all her training? I am pretty confused.

It's a moot argument though, Felicity's in the actual episode description. :)

I don't know what's up with Thea. Doesn't Oliver go to get her from Corto Maltese in ep 3, or was she just tracked there? Whether she comes back willingly or gets found, I want to know if she just used Merlyn for training of if they're in cahoots as part of a bigger plan.

Edited by apinknightmare
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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

Felicity is mentioned in the flash press release, 3 times actually.

http://flashtvnews.com/flash-episode-4-going-rogue-official-description/17005

That's a new updated one. In the old one she wasn't 

It's a moot argument though, Felicity's in the actual episode description. :)

I don't know what's up with Thea. Doesn't Oliver go to get her from Corto Maltese in ep 3, or was she just tracked there? Whether she comes back willingly or gets found, I want to know if she just used Merlyn for training of if they're in cahoots as part of a bigger plan.

yeah Ollie, Diggle and Roy go get her from Corto MAltese, but in the description for episode 4 it says she's back and Ollie and Roy are trying to mend their relationships with her. I'm really curious if she just went with them because she wanted to go home or if this is set up by Merlyn or something 

Edited by ban1o
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

It's incredibly tacky for KC to post this... INCREDIBLY tacky. I mean Sara JUST died. 

 

I was already pessimistic about Laurel's arc, this makes it even worse. I now honestly don't think they will do justice to Laurel and her arc. They already screwed up by killing Sara. Wow... this is just gross

 

 

I mean, I get it. She's excited, she's waited for two years. She doesn't write the show, and if TPTB had a problem with her they would've gone a different route. So, for her this is payoff for...how did the EPs put it, being a team sport? She's getting the part she signed up for.

 

She does seem to be tone-deaf as far as fandom goes, so it would've been a better idea to post this in a few weeks, IMO. I love it when actors are enthusiastic about their work; I wish I could be enthusiastic about it too, haha.

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Orion

Orion

In regards to KC's mask. They are fitting her for a life cast in that photo. From there they will create a bust of her head and then the makeup department will sculpt the mask directly onto the bust. From there a mold is created and then mask is made from that mold. So even though they are filming 3X09 right now,  (if that photo was recent and not just posted recently) it's still a few weeks away from being completed and that doesn't include getting network and DC's approval of the finished result. So I'm guessing end of the season for the mask.

 

Not that it matters but at least I get this season with no Laurel BC.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I think it was Willa Holland they said that about, that she'd had little to do for two seasons so now she's getting a juicy arc as a reward.

 

it's great for that she's getting her mask.  I remember her at Calgary (?) talking about how she tried on Sara's mask and got all excited.  But it is tacky to post it 2 days after Sara's death was aired.  I don't think KC has much empathy (i.e. understanding how other people feel) which affects how she plays Laurel and this supports it. 

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