Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Guest]

Remorse and a softer approach? Too little too late, I'm afraid. The newbies can choke as far as I'm concerned. If they'd suffered any consequences for their actions I might feel differently but they behaved like assholes and the only people suffering after S6 are the ones who didn't do anything wrong - Felicity and William. And Oliver of course. So unfair.

[SmallScreenDiva]

2 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

And seems the audiences disapproval of NTA was big enough to cause showrunners and the WB to course correct in s7. 

The tone of the responses seem to have changed but I'll believe a course correction when I actually see it on the show. And I'm with folks here who think remorse and a soft approach are both too little and too late.

[statsgirl]

Would it be enough if they acknowledged at the start of the season that their actions had contributed to the situation Oliver was in and expressed remorse? Anything more than that would be out of character.

Or should the whole fight just get ignored?

Because unfortunately it looks like they're staying on the show.

Edited June 16, 2018 by statsgirl

[bethy]

I would be less hostile, at least, toward the newbies if they acknowledged their fault in the split - or at a minimum acknowledged a role in the split. Then they should all say much much less and never EVER say anything negative about Oliver again. 

I might then be willing to give them a chance to start to earn my neutral regard for them. Maybe.

[calliope1975]

Those NTA self-righteous assholes hacked Digg's chip among other asshole moves. They are dead to me. 

[insomniadreams88]

I might be ... slightly accepting (not happy about) if they at least remember what they did, like hacking Diggle’s chip and causing him pain, instead of acting like it never happened (like with Curtis feeding Felicity tracking nanites without her knowledge). 

[kes0704]

For me, having them expressing some remorse won’t make me love them, but I could maybe tolerate them being with the team in some capacity (preferably in the background) if they’re keeping them on the show. 

The way they left it, Dinah and Rene barely apologised, while Curtis never apologised at all, they suffered no consequences for anything they did and walked away free and clear.  I need to see them at least acknowledge the role they played in everything that happened.

[Velocity23]

I dont know ... JH seems to have change her tune from April to June. Because i still remember the interview towards the end of the season when she said Dinah would go against Oliver when she thought it was right. But suddenly they are apologetic and more mellow towards OTA? I sense there is a change, 

 

[KenyaJ]

Sally* lives! Good to know, because her fate was my primary concern when Dragon's goons set the bunker on fire.

*At least I hope it's Sally and not some random prison salmon ladder.

Edited June 17, 2018 by KenyaJ

[JamieLynn832002]

I could see Sally surviving since I was never really sure how much damage the ring of fire would do to the mostly metal and cement bunker. Some, I'm sure but I doubt the all out destruction Diaz seemed to be envisioning.

[Mary0360]

Hopefully this means the writers aren't going to insult our intelligence by thinking anyone on Team Arrow would accept BS:

 

 

[Mellowyellow]

Me as a deluded person who won't quit:

But "does not trust" doesn't mean he's not secretly in love with her! He loves her so much he has to run whenever he's in the same room as her. Too much chemistry!!!! Redemption for BS! BS/Ollie4eva!!!!!!!

[TrueMyth]

Folie à deux, Mellowyellow: Maybe it's less that he doesn't trust HER and more that he doesn't trust himself AROUND HER. Because of the burning passion. Obviously, if he calls her Laurel he won't be able to contain the deep emotion she inspires. Which is obviously a violent... passion. Yep.

[tv echo]

[way2interested]

"Goatee for part of s7" = "Oliver shaves it off the moment he gets out of prison"

[lemotomato]

Here's the audio of SA's answer to that O/L fan: 
 

[Primal Slayer]

That was such a diplomatic answer I was expecting him to be like "hell no!" What he said was fine.  Kudos to those fans that just keep on chugging along but we're 7 seasons in.... that's what fanfic is for. Like with SuperCorp.

[strikera0]

I can't watch the video. What did he say?

[Mary0360]

1 minute ago, strikera0 said:

I can't watch the video. What did he say?

Short version is in the tweet I posted above but long version is that he was asked if BS and Oliver will have a relationship. He said that while Oliver respects Lance need to protect BS and Dinahs need to kill BS he made the choice not to call BS  Laurel as Oliver does not trust her.

 

And he asserted his voice when he said that he does not trust her to really make it clear to the poor soul who asked the question. 

[tv echo]

7 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Here's the audio of SA's answer to that O/L fan: 
 

I'm not sure of some of the words...

Fan: "Is there any chance we might see Earth-2 Laurel in a relationship in Season 7?" 
SA: "You mean a relationship between, um, Laurel and Oliver, Earth-2 and my character?"
Fan: "Yeah, yeah."
SA: "Um, I know they have some plans to, uh, reintroduce Laurel Lance into public life a little bit, uh, after Earth-2 Laurel pretended to be Earth-1 Laurel - um, in the eyes of Star City, is Earth-1 Laurel. I don't know how that pertains to Oliver and Laurel's relationship though. Um, I actually went to great lengths last year to never refer to her as Laurel because Oliver does not trust her - at all. And he understood Lance's relationship with her. And he understood, uh, Dinah's, uh, tension with her. But he certainly doesn't trust her, even though he, I think, towards the end of the year, especially the last episode, begrudgingly gets to respect her, if that makes sense."

Edited June 18, 2018 by tv echo
Corrected per lemotomato comment below.

[lemotomato]

5 minutes ago, tv echo said:

reintroduce Laurel Lance into probably life a little bit,

I think he says "public life". 

[tv echo]

I think you're right. I'll correct the transcription. Thx!

[apinknightmare]

23 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I think, towards the end of the year, especially the last episode, begrudgingly gets to respect her, if that makes sense."

No it does not. She utterly fucked his plan to capture Diaz, and he went to jail with his wife and kid in protective custody SOLELY BECAUSE OF HER. If she made it so he got locked up with some peace of mind about his family, sure. But no. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by apinknightmare

[insomniadreams88]

I can see Oliver seeing BS as being slightly useful to have on their side in the sense of "hey, here's this other person who wants the enemy out of the picture" but that's about it. 

[calliope1975]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

No it does not. She utterly fucked his plan to capture Diaz, and he went to jail with his wife and kid in protective custody SOLELY BECAUSE OF HER. If she made it so he got locked up with some peace of mind about his family, sure. But no. 

The mental gymnastics used to justify keeping this useless character around deserves the gold. 

[Cleanqueen]

2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

That was such a diplomatic answer I was expecting him to be like "hell no!" What he said was fine.  Kudos to those fans that just keep on chugging along but we're 7 seasons in.... that's what fanfic is for. Like with SuperCorp.

Not diplomatic, it was the best way he could reply without asking the fan if she was on drugs or something. How anyone thinks Oliver would want to have a relationship with mass murderer who had a hand in everything that's gone wrong in his life the past 1.5 seasons is beyond me.

I'm glad Stephen had a say in making sure he never referred to her as Laurel

[KenyaJ]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

No it does not. She utterly fucked his plan to capture Diaz, and he went to jail with his wife and kid in protective custody SOLELY BECAUSE OF HER. If she made it so he got locked up with some peace of mind about his family, sure. But no. 

I wonder if he meant before that, when everyone was twisting themselves into pretzels to justify why they had to protect her?

[Primal Slayer]

18 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Not diplomatic, it was the best way he could reply without asking the fan if she was on drugs or something. How anyone thinks Oliver would want to have a relationship with mass murderer who had a hand in everything that's gone wrong in his life the past 1.5 seasons is beyond me.

I'm glad Stephen had a say in making sure he never referred to her as Laurel

It pretty much was. The way people were acting to his reply is aa if it was epic shutdown

He treated the fan with respect, he didn't pull a Supergirl cast on the girl. 

People ship a lot of characters, majority of which dont happen, no reason for her to be on drugs or something because she likes something. 

[Cleanqueen]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

It pretty much was. The way people were acting to his reply is aa if it was epic shutdown

He treated the fan with respect, he didn't pull a Supergirl cast on the girl. 

People ship a lot of characters, majority of which dont happen, no reason for her to be on drugs or something because she likes something. 

I mean how often has he repeated the same thing at every con, just recently saying it was always going to be Oliver and Felicity even when the real Laurel was around. Only someone who is delusional would assume the show would course correct and have a relationship prosper out of a hero and  a mass murderer-7 YEARS LATER.

People can ship whoever they want, but you can also use logic to deduce whether you have a REAL SHIP or a crackship.

Also Supercorp is nowhere near BS/Oliver....I mean what is stopping the SG writers from making that ship happen down the line? Nothing at all, Lena isn't a mass murderer who hurt Kara's family any chance she got.

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

People ship a lot of characters, majority of which dont happen, no reason for her to be on drugs or something because she likes something

Sure, she's not on drugs. She's just ignoring everything that's happened on screen the last 5 years (especially season 6, when Oliver happily married Felicity and was raising his kid with her) every interview SA and the EPs have given in the last 3 years, that's all. 

[KenyaJ]

Beyond storyline and characterization reasons, it boggles my mind that people keep asking him this, because dude has been so transparent in his feelings on this matter for years. It's gotta suck shipping a pairing when the actor playing one half of the pairing actively rejects it (over and over again).

[Trisha]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

Um, I actually went to great lengths last year to never refer to her as Laurel because Oliver does not trust her - at all. 

This would hold more weight if in his last scene with Lance, Oliver didn't describe him as the "guy who just took a bullet for his daughter." Up until then I had faith that Oliver was the one character who seemed to be able to distinguish between E1 and E2 Laurel. It's weird that Amell would be so adamant about not calling her Laurel, but would let that line slip by...

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, Cleanqueen said:

I mean how often has he repeated the same thing at every con, just recently saying it was always going to be Oliver and Felicity even when the real Laurel was around. Only someone who is delusional would assume the show would course correct and have a relationship prosper out of a hero and  a mass murderer-7 YEARS LATER.

People can ship whoever they want, but you can also use logic to deduce whether you have a REAL SHIP or a crackship.

Also Supercorp is nowhere near BS/Oliver....I mean what is stopping the SG writers from making that ship happen down the line? Nothing at all, Lena isn't a mass murderer who hurt Kara's family any chance she got.

It's a TV show,  countless characters get with characters that have tried to kill them and get shipped with said characters. 

SuperCorp is never going to happen just like SwanQueen never happened even though it was stated it wouldn't happen and Regina has more blood on her hands then anyone, but they still have their fans who want them to. The person wanted to know the possibility, SA gave her a nice answer. She wasn't rude about it he wasn't rude about it. 

The only difference between people asking about BS/Oliver and ships similar to them is that Arrow fans have more access to the actors.

[Cleanqueen]

57 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

It's a TV show,  countless characters get with characters that have tried to kill them and get shipped with said characters. 

SuperCorp is never going to happen just like SwanQueen never happened even though it was stated it wouldn't happen and Regina has more blood on her hands then anyone, but they still have their fans who want them to. The person wanted to know the possibility, SA gave her a nice answer. She wasn't rude about it he wasn't rude about it. 

The only difference between people asking about BS/Oliver and ships similar to them is that Arrow fans have more access to the actors.

I never mentioned SwanQueen, and if you're reasoning is because Regina has a lot of blood on her hands then what is the reasoning for SuperCorp not happening...because, they're both women who dated ONLY men so far on the show?? I dont ship SC, but I can see why people do and I can totally see the writers heading that direction in the future if they think it is right.

And yeah it is a TV show that has established that the only woman for Oliver Queen is Felicity Smoak, there has never been any hints that he loves another woman in this life...so please explain how it is logical for a fan to deduce that oliver would end up with her...they might as well ask if Oliver and Dragon would get together too because why not? But we all know hwy they keep asking...hoping that somehow the comic canon relationship would rise from the ashes irregardless of the fact that the only resemblance to E1 LL is the fact that she's played by the same actress.

[Mary0360]

3 hours ago, Trisha said:

This would hold more weight if in his last scene with Lance, Oliver didn't describe him as the "guy who just took a bullet for his daughter." Up until then I had faith that Oliver was the one character who seemed to be able to distinguish between E1 and E2 Laurel. It's weird that Amell would be so adamant about not calling her Laurel, but would let that line slip by...

I feel like everyone besides Lance and Thea could distinguish between Siren and Laurel and were pretty anti-Siren. At most I think in the future the will begrudgingly tolerate her if it serves their own ends but none of them seem interested in rolling out the welcome mat for her. 

[tv echo]

Arrow Audition Tape Teases New Archer For Season 7
Eric Joseph   June 18, 2018
http://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/arrow-audition-tape-teases-archer-season-7/ 

Quote

In this video, she reads for scenes being shared with whom we assume to be Green Arrow and Black Canary, in which we learn that she’s indeed a vigilante from the Glades relying on brutal methods – and that she’s lost her father to mafia violence. What’s more is that she mimes drawing back a bow at one point, so it’s safe to say we know her weapon of choice.

Edited June 18, 2018 by tv echo

[KenyaJ]

4 hours ago, Trisha said:

This would hold more weight if in his last scene with Lance, Oliver didn't describe him as the "guy who just took a bullet for his daughter." Up until then I had faith that Oliver was the one character who seemed to be able to distinguish between E1 and E2 Laurel. It's weird that Amell would be so adamant about not calling her Laurel, but would let that line slip by...

That didn't bother me because in the moment, it would have been weird for him to say "guy who just took a bullet for the woman he thinks is his daughter."  Post 510, Oliver hasn't wavered at all in his recognition that BS isn't "their" Laurel, and I don't think that line was intended to indicate otherwise.

[Chaser]

I don't think there is any problem with someone asking if BS is going to have a relationship with Oliver. I think anyone asking about a romantic relationship deserves a good eye-roll at this point, but not a relationship in the broad sense. Tbh, I'm not really clear on which way that question was going. SA seemed to response to a general relationship between Oliver and BS which makes the answer interesting.

Certainly doesn't sounds like BS will have regular interaction with the Team. With JH saying that there will be more Dinah/BS and SA saying that BS will be more involved in E1Laurel's life (DA's office?), I'm guessing Dinah will take Lance's role on Island BS. My guess is Oliver and BS will have about the same amount of screentime in S7 as they did in S6.

[Mary0360]

18 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Arrow Audition Tape Teases New Archer For Season 7
Eric Joseph   June 18, 2018
http://wegotthiscovered.com/tv/arrow-audition-tape-teases-archer-season-7/

Wow her backstory and character doesn't sound anything like Artemis or Dinah or Rene or Rory at all. A totally new freash and different character uh huh ?

[way2interested]

Idk how necessarily seriously to take audition dialogue/descriptions.

[tv echo]

^^^ Audition transcription - I think the first scene is with Oliver/GA and the second scene is with Dinah/BC, even though the off-screen reader is the same male voice (yes, I know these are fake scenes, but they are likely testing for how the actress portrays certain emotions and character traits, and we can see about what age and look they're casting for "Konomi Rhodes")...

IA: "Hi. My name is Izzy Alan. I'm 5'7" and I'm located in Los Angeles."

(First scene - she mimes drawing back a bow.)
Male voice: "Freeze."
IA: "Oh good, I was worried that I'd lost you."
Male voice: "Stand down and you won't get hurt."
IA: "Funny, I was thinking of saying the same to you."
(She mimes being struck in the arm by something and dropping her bow.)
IA: "That's the first time someone has drawn my blood in almost two years. Kudos. You got lucky."
Male voice: [unintelligible words]
IA: "Well, you're going to need more than luck to escape tonight."
Male voice: "After what you pulled over there at City Hall, there's no way tonight ends any other way than me taking you in."
IA: "Four dead civil servants with ties to the mob. And he talks like I started World War 3."
Male voice: "It's not justice. You're out of control."
IA: "Well, you've gone soft. Those councilmen made their own beds. And now they can lie in it. Six feet deep. Why are you so opposed to my help? Don't you want your city free of this scum?"
Male voice: "It's not help. It's murder. They had families."
IA: "As did those under the control of the mob. Why should someone in office get preferential treatment?"
Male voice: "They're not."
IA: "Doesn't look that way to me. It just looks like you're unwilling to do what's necessary. Why, though? You used to be that man."
Male voice: "No. I was a killer, but I've changed. I've learned there's a better way. One that doesn't lead to death upon death. Real heroes save life, they don't destroy it."
IA (shaking head): "Ahh, you should put that on a card. (Throws forward right hand, and then crosses her arms) That's the thing about you heroes. Your idea of justice is tailored to whatever paints you in the best light. It's good for boy scouts, but this is the real world. When you have an arm with gangrene, you lop it off as a whole, from the shoulder to the elbow to the hand to the fingernails. Nothing can be spared, when everything is diseased. Stay out of my way and I won't be forced to kill you."

(Cut to second scene)
IA: "Thank you for coming. Don't worry, I'm unarmed."
Male voice: "I'm not. You're lucky I considered coming."
IA: "Want a drink? They make a pretty mean Moscow Mule."
Male voice: "Let's not pretend we're having a girls' night out. Can we just cut to the chase?"
IA (sighs): "I want to apologize for everything. I didn't mean to hurt you or anyone else."
Male voice: "Tell that to the shell casings in my Kevlar."
IA: "That's fair. I made a few mistakes. But I heard you made quite a few mistakes too before you joined the team."
Male voice: "That was a long time ago. I've had my rage in check since then."
IA: "I'm sure Laurel would have a different story."
Male voice: "She killed Vinnie. I don't have to explain myself to you. I am so out of here."
IA: "Wait! I'm not the best at apologizing."
Male voice: "That's an understatement."
IA: "It's just - there's a reason I'm here, and why I operate the way that I do. My dad was murdered when I was a kid."
Male voice: "I didn't realize -"
IA: "I got home from school one day, and I noticed that my green and blue friendship bracelet was missing. It must've just fallen off on the way home. You must've thought it was a diamond bracelet, the way that I was carrying on. My mom thought I was being ridiculous, but my dad said he'd retrace my steps with me. Being a kid from the Glades, I knew the neighborhood wasn't the greatest, but having my dad with me made me feel invincible. What I didn't account for was that he wasn't."
Male voice: "What happened?"
IA: "We made it right outside the school yard, and there it was. I saw the blue in the blades of grass. I was so excited that I didn't even see the two men getting into a fight. And then a gunshot. And then I saw my dad hit the ground. Just like that. In a blink of an eye, he was gone."
Male voice: "Konomi, that's awful."
IA: "I'm not telling you this for you to feel sorry for me. I just want you to know why it's so important for me to clean up the Glades and why I'll do anything, no matter the cost, so that no one else has to go through this kind of trauma ever again. So will you help me?"

ETA: I did this transcription in case the Vimeo audition video gets deleted or removed.

Edited June 18, 2018 by tv echo

[Chaser]

I don't take these auditions as fact but I am curious at the more vulnerable scene being with Dinah. A variation of the Sin character for Black Canary?

[way2interested]

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I don't take these auditions as fact but I am curious at the more vulnerable scene being with Dinah. A variation of the Sin character for Black Canary?

Yeah, I was wondering that too, which also made me wonder if the other new characters would pair off with the other newbies as well.

[apinknightmare]

If it’s a version of Sin for her BC, I hope they get someone younger-looking than the few auditions I’ve seen.  

[Velocity23]

I bet its gonna turn out that the girl will have a connection to Roy and not Dinah.

[statsgirl]

I hope it's just a friendship connection, like Sin. Roy is Thea's.

9 hours ago, tv echo said:

SA: "Um, I know they have some plans to, uh, reintroduce Laurel Lance into public life a little bit, uh, after Earth-2 Laurel pretended to be Earth-1 Laurel - um, in the eyes of Star City, is Earth-1 Laurel.

 

So they're going to redeem her?  The woman was murdered for fun and then pretended to be a lawyer is going to be a public figure now?

I don't understand what they're doing with Black Siren.  I could see keeping her as a villain who they use as a frenemy when they need help but reintroducing her into public life in Star City as opposed to starting somewhere new where Laurel Lance wasn't known makes no sense to me. (Also it seems like they're going to be using her a lot since KC is planning her wedding and honeymoon during the hiatus.

They already have a Black Canary, they don't need another one.

[apinknightmare]

I'm curious about *how* they're going to reintroduce Laurel into public life. Her most prominent role in Star City was as DA - and I can buy a lot of things, but I cannot buy that a lazy-ass criminal with no desire whatsoever to do any actual work is going to somehow become a lawyer in 6 months (even if that was possible). Are they going to retcon her having gone to law school on E2 or something? That would've been handy to mention back when she looked at a law text once and managed to come up with a legal strategy the actual DA couldn't even come up with. Or are they going to have her doing something else?

[Chaser]

I think having the wedding and honeymoon during hiatus is just practical. She probably doesn't know which episodes she will appear in, and then reshoots and possible delays.

I'm still holding on to DR saying she would be back for a 'few' and EBR implying she wouldn't be around fulltime. It's foolish, but it is what it is.

13 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I'm curious about *how* they're going to reintroduce Laurel into public life. Her most prominent role in Star City was as DA - and I can buy a lot of things, but I cannot buy that a lazy-ass criminal with no desire whatsoever to do any actual work is going to somehow become a lawyer in 6 months (even if that was possible). Are they going to retcon her having gone to law school on E2 or something? That would've been handy to mention back when she looked at a law text once and managed to come up with a legal strategy the actual DA couldn't even come up with. Or are they going to have her doing something else?

She's going to open a flower shop.

[Cleanqueen]

It makes no sense because if they wanted to do all this, why didn't they just resurrect E1 LL, since they bring back everyone anyways. They've had multiple Chances at this point. And as it stands now, that sounds more realistic then having a mass murderer became E1 LL.

[Primal Slayer]

So we're getting another version of Evelyn?