Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Sakura12]

There set up was Sara giving Laurel a jacket, really? Do they think that jacket has magical powers that will make people suddenly like her and want her to be an unearned super hero?  They are really as delusional as they write Laurel. 

 

Reporter: "So why did you become a super hero?"

 

Oliver: "Because my city was corrupt and needed someone to fight for them"

Sara: "Because no woman should ever suffer at the hands of men"

Laurel: "Because I wanted to be my sister"

Edited September 21, 2014 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

I think that interview was done during SDCC because I've heard

 

It probably was done during SDCC. I know quite a few bloggers/interviewers will do that.  Dribble out part of the interview right after SDCC and then save the bulk until closer to season premiere. Just like the recent EBR interview that was clearly done in May/June during the International Press Event EBR/CH did for The WB.

[wonderwall]

It's possible that they used the Queen assets to prop up their QC shares in s2.  That's why the lawyer wanted Thea to sign over the trust to another trust, to keep the Queen assets secure, and Thea didn't.

 

Given Oliver's personal fortune, I would hope he would have been paying Felicity a lot more than $40,000, especially given the hours she puts into her night job.  But if Oliver is not suffering money problems, why doesn't he help Felicity out so she can start up her own IT consulting firm?  (I know, plot contrivance)

But not all Queen assets are liquidated. I don't think everything that the Queen family owned was in the name of the company, thus the company could never touch it. For example, there is land (Queen mansion, and I'm sure they have other vacation homes), jewelry, cars (Oliver had a Bentley in season 1, those are expensive)... So yeah I can see why Oliver wouldn't struggle. 

 

But just because he isn't struggling doesn't mean he's in any position to raise capital in order to help Felicity start her own IT consulting firm. Creating a start up is a lot of work. It requires bank loans (something of which I don't think Oliver would get easily considering his terrible business acumen) and investors, you name it. Starting a company by yourself is impossible unless you're a billionaire (which Oliver isn't) because start up costs are insane and it's quite possible the company wouldn't be making any profit for the first year or two. 

 

So yeah... Sorry for all the business talk :p 

[Chaser]

I wonder if that interview should be taken literally. Sara disappears and Laurel teams up with the LOA to find her (I know they wouldn't need her help but you know BS is happening here). Laurel starts retracing Sara's steps from the beginning. They find Sara only for Sara to die, probably at the hands of Ra's (tying her to Oliver's big bad). Grief stricken and angry Laurel leaves at the end of S3 to go with the LOA. S4 starts with Laurel as the Black Canary…..Ugh I don't like this.

 

Oliver's financial situation makes as much sense as Laurel's legal one.

[icandigit]

I'm becoming an arrow tv nerd. I just remember Felicity did comment about her pay."My take home pay is not even that good considering im rarely at home, as i'm with him every night". I remember that line made me mad. She should be compensated properly.

[Sakura12]

I wonder if that interview should be taken literally. Sara disappears and Laurel teams up with the LOA to find her (I know they wouldn't need her help but you know BS is happening here). Laurel starts retracing Sara's steps from the beginning. They find Sara only for Sara to die, probably at the hands of Ra's (tying her to Oliver's big bad). Grief stricken and angry Laurel leaves at the end of S3 to go with the LOA. S4 starts with Laurel as the Black Canary…..Ugh I don't like this.

 

That would still be them giving Laurel Sara's story. If they want Laurel to stand on her own she needs her own story not a repeat of someone else. That's why they are having such problems with her, Felicity, Sara, Nyssa, Shado and Moira were their own characters. Laurel was a copy of Rachel from the Nolanverse Batman movies and probably this season a copy of Sara. Why are they having such trouble writing Laurel as a person that stands on her own? She's the only one. It's like they had an idea for Laurel and just expected everyone to love her while writing actual characters for everyone else.

[Chaser]

They are having trouble because they wrote themselves into a corner and they know it. They must know that there is no way for Laurel to believably be The Black Canary. They wasted her biggest motivation (Tommy's death and witnessing the Undertaking tearing the city apart) on her addiction storyline. All they have left is Sara. But they can't just kill her off, I believe they would have at the end of S2 to make way for Laurel if not for her popularity. So that leaves spending a season making Laurel the best sister ever to either A) take on the mantel after Sara's death or B) have Sara decide to step down. Either way, its going to feel like the EPs are running a Con.

[statsgirl]

I really get the feeling that they are going to ignore the anti-Laurel feeling and write her as becoming the Black Canary.  Just because they want to and they can.

But not all Queen assets are liquidated. I don't think everything that the Queen family owned was in the name of the company, thus the company could never touch it. For example, there is land (Queen mansion, and I'm sure they have other vacation homes), jewelry, cars (Oliver had a Bentley in season 1, those are expensive)... So yeah I can see why Oliver wouldn't struggle. 

The Queen mansion was sold (I'd expect it to get $4 - 10 million depending on whether land prices in Starling City are like those in Vancouver) presumably because it was part of underpinning the stock they had to acquire to keep QC, along with any other land, major jewelry and the paintings, and Oliver is living in the foundry.  But if you're right and he still has money from all that, even more reason to help Felicity out. Starting a consulting company doesn't take much money (I had a joint one for years).  Basically it means giving her enough money to live on until she can get some contracts as she works out of her home, and once clients start coming in because she is good, she can roll along, hiring people to work under her and moving into office space as her company grows. Because really, the only reason she's no longer working in the IT department at QC at her old salary is Oliver.

 

They better play the part-time job for laughs because otherwise Oliver is going to look like a major douche again.

[calliope1975]

They are having trouble because they wrote themselves into a corner and they know it. They must know that there is no way for Laurel to believably be The Black Canary. They wasted her biggest motivation (Tommy's death and witnessing the Undertaking tearing the city apart) on her addiction storyline. All they have left is Sara. But they can't just kill her off, I believe they would have at the end of S2 to make way for Laurel if not for her popularity. So that leaves spending a season making Laurel the best sister ever to either A) take on the mantel after Sara's death or B) have Sara decide to step down. Either way, its going to feel like the EPs are running a Con.

 

Just based on the reaction to the poster, on a variety of different media sites, I think this is going to backfire so much. Unless they have some sort of miracle planned, I'm going to predict the reaction to Laurel and KC is going to get much worse, and it's going to be ugly. But, it's their own fault for putting a poorly thought out, terribly written character on screen with a not right for the part actress.

 

Is Queen Mansion officially gone? I know they've already retconned most of the finance issues and Team Arrow still has the foundry. I thought they might hand wave the mansion selling as well.

[statsgirl]

SA said that Oliver was sleeping at the foundry when the season opens.

[KenyaJ]

I assume the mansion is gone, since Greg Berlanti talked at SDCC about Oliver finding a new place to live. And it makes sense, with Moira dead and Thea estranged from Oliver. It would be weird for him to live there by himself.

 

And also, for those wondering, the intro to the Marc Guggenheim interview says it took place during SDCC.

[Angel12d]

Marc Guggenheim interview:

http://comicbook.com/2014/09/21/arrows-guggenheim-on-season-3-we-wanted-to-fuse-the-epic-quality/

 

What I don't understand is that they're talking about maybe doing a flashback of Sara and how she met Nyssa and her time training with the LoA. But why go to all that trouble if they intend for Laurel to be the Black Canary? Surely they're just giving the audience more reason to like Sara as BC because we'll be seeing her evolution to the person we saw in s2. What does Laurel get? Oh, yeah, Laurel just wants to be her sister. Huh?! I'm really confused as to where they are going with this. 

[TanyaKay]

yeah, building up more background story for Sara does not make sense for two reasons. First, the show is about Oliver's journey and not Sara's. Secondly, if LL ends up becoming the BC then spending all that time, money and precious story telling hours on Sara's back story would backfire. Perhaps they want to keep her as a divisive force because she gets a lot of media attention.

Edited September 22, 2014 by TanyaKay

[statsgirl]

It's season 3 and I think they do need to branch out for everything being about Oliver because it's going to get boring otherwise.  So Thea gets an arc with Malcolm, Diggle gets the Suicide Squad and we get backstory (finally) on Felicity.

 

But giving us more background on Sara and making her a more sympathetic character just doesn't make sense unless they're going to keep her around and in the Black Canary role.  The backlash if they have Laurel take on the jacket is going to be even worse. 

[Sunshine]

Maybe Sarah's backstory is more about introducing/expanding Ra's Al Ghul and the League than her?  

[writersblock51]

What I don't understand is that they're talking about maybe doing a flashback of Sara and how she met Nyssa and her time training with the LoA. But why go to all that trouble if they intend for Laurel to be the Black Canary? Surely they're just giving the audience more reason to like Sara as BC because we'll be seeing her evolution to the person we saw in s2. What does Laurel get? Oh, yeah, Laurel just wants to be her sister. Huh?! I'm really confused as to where they are going with this. 

this was my question when I read that part of the interview - basically, why the hell is the show wasting screen time on Sara's background if she's not going to remain a long term character on the show?  What's the point?  We already know that she was 'rescued' by the LoA, trained by them and has very personal reasons for who she targeted and why once she went off on her own. 

 

The season is already at risk at getting bogged down by the weight of a big cast and all the stories the show wants to tell.  Wasting that kind of time (and budget) on a character that may be killed off to forward Laurel's story - it makes absolutely no sense.  If the show wants to make the audience believe that Laurel would even consider becoming a vigilante (after consistently showing her strong feelings against that kind of lifestyle in the past), then perhaps they should spend time showing us how she'd come to change her mind.   If MG and company truly want me to like Laurel when I haven't had any interest in her for some time now, then SHOW why I should be interested in her journey. They really need to stop telling us how much we'll love her and her story but then do a piss-poor job of showing her and her story. Meanwhile, More Sara!

 

 

yeah, building up more background story for Sara does not make sense for two reasons. First, the show is about Oliver's journey and not Sara's. Secondly, of LL ends up becoming the BC then spending all that time, money and precious story telling hours on Sara's back story would backfire. Perhaps they want to keep her as a divisive force because she gets a lot of media attention.

(TanyaKay)

 

EXACTLY!

 

Mind you, if the interview is from July, perhaps things have changed since then.

 

Otherwise, this is just baffling.  It also seems very risky.

[Angel12d]

I can see how a flashback to Sara's time with the LoA would link nicely to Ra's al Ghul (and I'm all for it, don't get me wrong) but I just think if they're so determined to turn Laurel into BC they need to focus less on Sara's incarnation of the Canary. I already think Sara is a better BC because she has the history, motivation and the training and showing that is not going to make me feel differently. I guess I just don't understand. I need to stop thinking about this and wait and see what they do. 

Edited September 22, 2014 by Angel12d

[Starfish35]

Well what they've done with Sara so far has never made sense from the perspective of planning to still have Laurel as BC. This is just more of that. (And I say that as a complete Sara stan.) It's part of the reason I was so firmly (and embarrassingly) convinced last season that they were going to ditch Laurel and keep Sara.

I get the feeling they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. They're determined that Laurel will still be Black Canary. But they also love Sara and her story and want to use her as much as possible, and they don't seem to get how much that's undermining their eventual goal of Laurel as BC.

I don't know how how it's all going to end up playing out. :(

[Morrigan2575]

Mind you, if the interview is from July, perhaps things have changed since then.

Doubtful, he said it on Twitter long before SDCC. This sounds to me like their comments early last season about a BoP episode which ended up happening in the back half.

It sounds like it's something they have on their mind but haven't committed to in the early season I wouldn't surprised if it happens in 317.

As for why bother? My honest guess that like character/actress and loved world/connections created Sara. Perhaps it's too tempting them to pass up or perhaps they really don't get that giving most of us more Sara development makes it impossible accept Laurel taking over role.

[Angel12d]

I know. When I think of it that way, it really is more of the same. But the EP's have made it pretty clear that Laurel is going to be BC and will be taking steps towards that, so I just think it's weird to continue that precedent set with Sara if they're really going there this season. It makes even less sense now.

 

I can't help but think that they never intended or expected Sara to be so popular and accepted as the Canary and now they want to continue with that popularity which is great but it does Laurel's rise to BC no favors. 

Edited September 22, 2014 by Angel12d

[statsgirl]

I wonder what positioin Geoff Johns is taking on Sara vs Laurel. He is their DC Comics connection as well as a writer for the show and I've heard that he likes Sara.

[Orion]

I wonder if they are keeping CL's Sara around in hopes of launching a Birds of Prey show. I just don't think the support is there for KC to headline her own show. If they are looking to do a BOP show then The Huntress actress is now available and CL and her could move to another city and set up their own hero team. Otherwise I just don't understand why they didn't kill her off at the end of Season 2  Her story that synched up with Oliver was told, any further story about her would have to be either loosely connected to Ra's or her own story and we know how Arrow feels about stories that are isolated from Oliver. 

[wonderwall]

I wonder if they are keeping CL's Sara around in hopes of launching a Birds of Prey show. I just don't think the support is there for KC to headline her own show. If they are looking to do a BOP show then The Huntress actress is now available and CL and her could move to another city and set up their own hero team. Otherwise I just don't understand why they didn't kill her off at the end of Season 2  Her story that synched up with Oliver was told, any further story about her would have to be either loosely connected to Ra's or her own story and we know how Arrow feels about stories that are isolated from Oliver. 

No offense to the actresses but CL, KC, and JDG could never hold up a show on their own. They're all pretty weak actresses tbqh. :/ 

 

They might keep Sara because she may be going down the dark path thus clearing up the path for Laurel to take. I can just see this happening. ugh. 

[Sakura12]

If we go by Geoff Johns during SDCC. He seemed annoyed with KC asking him if he read the comics. Then he immediately went to CL and told her how much he loved the way she was playing Sara and that she looked so badass in the Black Canary outfit. That seems like he's all for Sara being the Black Canary. 

[Starfish35]

@Orion - You'd still be dealing with the problem of two Canaries though. Why would Laurel take the Canary name on Arrow if Sara's still alive and using it in a spin-off?

Edited September 22, 2014 by Starfish35

[Orion]

@Starfish35 I'm still on the side that Sara isn't going to die for Laurel to take the name, I think she'll hand it off to her like the jacket. Something contrived like Sara saying the canary always liked Laurel better.  That might be wishful thinking on my part, not because I love Sara, but just because I don't want to see the body count surrounding Laurel get any larger.

 

The producers seem really determined to keep the BC element of the story and with the fan response to CL's BC I just think they are looking for anyway to keep both of them in that role or in any role and that's the only one I could come up that would make any kind of sense for building more background for Sara. 

 

It still floors me how badly they mishandled this one aspect of the story.

[statsgirl]

Maybe they would be willing to give Laurel a different name, in the 'some characters are moving closer to their comic book counterparts and some farther away' theme.

 

If they find a strong actress to take the Oracle role, I could see CL, JdG and someone else in a BoP spin-off.  I guess a lot depends on how The Flash does, and if there is interest in a Suicide Squad spin-off. 

 

 

It still floors me how badly they mishandled this one aspect of the story.

I don't think they saw it coming, either the dislike of Laurel or how much people loved CL as Sara.

[TanyaKay]

Maybe they would be willing to give Laurel a different name, in the 'some characters are moving closer to their comic book counterparts and some farther away' theme.

 

I don't think they saw it coming, either the dislike of Laurel or how much people loved CL as Sara.

 

I think they had a fair idea how KC was disliked after the first season, that is why they brought CL on to minimize the fall out of that bad casting. What I fail to understand is their determination of making KC the Black Canary. The story does not want to go there and they are forcing it on.

[Starfish35]

@Starfish35 I'm still on the side that Sara isn't going to die for Laurel to take the name, I think she'll hand it off to her like the jacket. Something contrived like Sara saying the canary always liked Laurel better.

I could see that maybe, but how then would she (Sara) be in a spin-off?

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's take a break from the 'Laurel as Canary' vs 'Sara as Canary' conversation, folks.

 

The truth is, there's nothing out there but speculation and tease. There's talk about spinoffs, there's talk about deaths, there's lots of talk. But none of that is really Spoilers OR Spoiler Discussion. Let's get back to that stuff.

 

Thank you!

[Morrigan2575]

http://theapplefour.tumblr.com/post/97808720018/sarahsassafras13-jrramirez8thats-a-wrap-4-now

 

This is 4 days old but it looks like JR Rameriz has wrapped his Arrow run (for now at least).  So he's only in 303, 305 and 306 unless they bring him back after Power finishes filming but they just started filming this week.  If he comes back at all it would be late in the season, 315 at the earliest (my guess).

[wonderwall]

Random thought but, I'm just going to LOL so hard if Sara or Felicity (or even both) is the one who owns Sherwood Florists :p 

 

SO HARD. 

Edited September 22, 2014 by wonderwall

[KirkB]

Actually, I could easily see it being Oliver. A guy who dresses and acts like Robin Hood would likely enjoy the pun, and bear in mind this is a guy whose secret crime fighting identity involved wearing a lot of green and he named his club Verdant.

[Morrigan2575]

I heard somewhere (here?) that CL said at Dragon*Con that she wanted Sara/Nyssa to open a flower shop together...would be really funny if that was the case.

[JJ928]

I heard somewhere (here?) that CL said at Dragon*Con that she wanted Sara/Nyssa to open a flower shop together...would be really funny if that was the case.

 

I'm sure she was joking, but it would be hilarious if she did open a flower shop. She said this: https://twitter.com/awhitby/status/505419269640040448 at Dragoncon. It's funny that then MG teased Sherwood Florist the other day.

[wingster55]

Wow...never knew, on this show, that a floral shop and its ownership would lead to so much speculation

[Morrigan2575]

I'm sure she was joking, but it would be hilarious if she did open a flower shop. She said this: https://twitter.com/awhitby/status/505419269640040448 at Dragoncon. It's funny that then MG teased Sherwood Florist the other day.

Oh I'm sure they were joking around, I just thought it would be funny if it turned out that the whole Sherwood Florist thing ended up being related to Sara.

There's been a ton of spec, I saw Emergency Awesome speculate that maybe Felicity's apartment was above Sherwood Florist (which automatically makes it not true because he's never right). I saw the Nyssa/Sara opening the shop spec, the Laurel owns it in addition to everything else, Cupid works there or sends flowers from there to the Arrow, etc, etc

[wonderwall]

Wow...never knew, on this show, that a floral shop and its ownership would lead to so much speculation

It's the hiatus. People tend to speculate over every little single thing in hiatuses. Also because in the comics Sherwood was owned by BC/GA so it would just be hilarious if Sara owned it with or without Nyssa or even Felicity :p 

[Starfish35]

I'm placing my bets on it having something to do with Cupid, but I'd love it if it really did have something to do with Sara.

[JJ928]

Oh I'm sure they were joking around, I just thought it would be funny if it turned out that the whole Sherwood Florist thing ended up being related to Sara.

There's been a ton of spec, I saw Emergency Awesome speculate that maybe Felicity's apartment was above Sherwood Florist (which automatically makes it not true because he's never right). I saw the Nyssa/Sara opening the shop spec, the Laurel owns it in addition to everything else, Cupid works there or sends flowers from there to the Arrow, etc, etc

 

OMG I really like Emergency Awesome videos, but like you said, he's never right. LOL

 

I won't lie, there is a tiny part of me that's hoping it does relate to Sara because I love her but I think it's not gonna be a big thing. Like you said, Cupid probably works there, or it may be as boring as one of the characters going there to order flowers.

[KirkB]

It could be both. Sara could own/run Sherwood and Cupid works there.

[tv echo]

Emma: I'll take anything you've got on Arrow.

There's going to be a lot of the S-word in Starling City this year. Which S-word exactly? Sex, baby! "They've amped up the romance," Colton Haynes teased. "It's a little more sexual this year. A lot more new characters, new romances, and also a lot more heart."

http://www.eonline.com/news/581643/spoiler-chat-scoop-on-grey-s-anatomy-the-vampire-diaries-once-upon-a-time-the-good-wife-and-more

Edited September 23, 2014 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Sometimes CH confuses me. I know that other cast members have called this season more intimate, but I didn't take that to mean more sex/sexual. The heart part I can see, but the sex part I'm a little wary of.

[dtissagirl]

So. Per Amell's comparison of Oliver to Lord Varys, is everyone except Oliver having all the sex then?

[ban1o]

Sometimes CH confuses me. I know that other cast members have called this season more intimate, but I didn't take that to mean more sex/sexual. The heart part I can see, but the sex part I'm a little wary of.

lol CH has said before that "everyone" gets a love interest. There are probably a lot of relationship scenes +maybe sex scenes lol. TBH He probably just said that because he didn't want to spoil anything important. 

Edited September 23, 2014 by ban1o

[Morrigan2575]

I don't know how new this comment actually is, CH made a comment way back when that everyone is getting new Love Interests this year

 

We have confirmed LIs for Laurel, Thea and Felicity

Oliver is a Eunuch in S3 (at least in the present story and until the EPs change their mind).

Diggle probably not since he has Lyla and Baby Diggle

Quentin and CH are the only people left and I believe CH hinted that someone from Roy's pre-Thea life would show up in S3 (many speculate it will be his S3 LI).

Edited September 23, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[ban1o]

Yeah that could be an old comment actually now that I think about it. I remember before like in early July he had a couple of interviews and I think it was before he got the scripts and he was saying that everyone was getting a new love interest. (I think he got that info from the EP's?) Eonline could have just stolen a comment he made from then .

Edited September 23, 2014 by ban1o

[Velocity23]

Rolls eyes x.x 

Seriously i hear the word Felicity out of the mouth of a Flash cast member one more time i am gonna start throwing things. 

[wonderwall]

I was actually hoping for Felicity to have at least one strained relationship with one of the main cast members. It adds an extra layer to the characters and it just makes things more fun. I was hoping it would've been Laurel (because I honestly don't see the love there), but alas, the writers actually want Laurel to be likable this season. :/ Boo. 

[statsgirl]

Arrow is a CW hit, and they want that to translate over for The Flash.

 

I can buy Felicity getting along with Iris before I can buy her getting along with Laurel because Iris, so far as we know, has never been disdainful of Felicity and Felicity knows that Iris is the one Barry really wants.

 

I was hoping it would've been Laurel (because I honestly don't see the love there), but alas, the writers actually want Laurel to be likable this season

While I understand that they want to rehab Laurel and that includes getting along with Felicity, I think a strained relationship with Felicity might actually  make Laurel more likable because it would make her more real instead of the blank-faced perfect Laurel they often want us to buy.  Let Laurel work at having to be accepted for a change instead of getting everything handed to her by the proudcers.

Edited September 23, 2014 by statsgirl