Spoiler Discussion Thread

[bijoux]

RG posted this TBT photo, which makes me hopeful that Rory is coming back. Considering how he left, nothing else makes sense.

[theOAfc]

Its not slowburn when you put two characters together,almost have them get married and then next season you act like they had one night stand,ignoring their history and downplaying their dynamic. And thats all while you force new characters and rush new dynamics and try to replicate actual scenes of previous seasons with them(big belly burger etc).

Once again these people prove they dont know anything about how good tv nowadays works. The only thing this type of writing manages to do is  make people tune out and make them stop caring. A slowburn implies build up and would do the oposite,it would make people impatient but still passionately rooting. I see more people giving up the show tbh.

They think olicity fans are upset just because olicity is not together and while im sure there are many who mainly care about that,there are also many that want the journey to make sense and the dynamic to be honored with a good journey. Personally i've lost interest about a lot of things regarding this dynamic ,i feel like its cheapened and lowkey ruined with the tropes they pulled and the whole reset they tried to do this season. I used to love them, a little more than a year ago.

Edited April 1, 2017 by theOAfc

[Chaser]

I don't want to see Oliver tortured again.

Just No.

[bijoux]

I'm hoping this is the last one. Are there still any unexplained scars from the five years? Maybe that's why they're having Kovar (I assume) torture him now. 

[Hiveminder]

1 minute ago, bijoux said:

I'm hoping this is the last one. Are there still any unexplained scars from the five years? Maybe that's why they're having Kovar (I assume) torture him now. 

We haven't seen him get those burn scars on his lower back, right?

[leopardprint]

Random thought, is he going to post shirtless pics everytime he says something stupid now? That's a hilarious but apparently effective media strategy. Many LOLs.

[bijoux]

48 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

We haven't seen him get those burn scars on his lower back, right?

I don't think so.

[BkWurm1]

The Bratva tattoo looks weird to me all bright and newly inked.   

[apinknightmare]

1 hour ago, leopardprint said:

Random thought, is he going to post shirtless pics everytime he says something stupid now? That's a hilarious but apparently effective media strategy. Many LOLs.

What stupid thing did he say that these are supposed to be making up for?

[leopardprint]

@apinknightmare, I'm referring to the quote posted earlier. "Stupid" is too strong a word, probably should have said "debatable" or "half baked". I only found the "taking time" part objectionable, I definitely see the point of posters who appreciated the acknowledgement of the issues. 

[BkWurm1]

With JR Bourne seemingly back in Vancouver (I think that's what the pic of him working out is showing in the Spoilers Only section) I'm wondering if they are building up a rogues gallery of previously seen villains to be the season long baddies, kind of trying maybe to replicate what they did on LoT with the Legion of Doom.  I wonder if we might get a more team vs team dynamic with BS off in her own bunker.  

I mean it's really too early for that kind of casting (except that we have KC already so why not others) but it has me wondering.

Edited April 1, 2017 by BkWurm1

[ComicFan777]

I would definitely prefer a villain team, rather than redeeming BS storyline.

[Primal Slayer]

I think they are just having everything Oliver has done be kind of be unraveled with all the baddies getting loose. Unless there is someone who takes to being the leader, these would be a lot of randoms to just pair up for a big bad group. At least in my mind I just can't see what they would all be able to accomplish with everyone in Star City already knowing they are bad guys.

[Soulfire]

From someone seeing Marc Guggenheim at a con today --

 

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Soulfire

[bijoux]

2 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

From someone seeing Marc Guggenheim at a con today --

 

But it is something you can test. Oh my God! I get KC as a network hire, but what's the excuse for Carly Pope?

Curious about the Queen mansion.

[apinknightmare]

Quote

Everyone's excited to be done with flashbacks. They will be few and far between in S6. More relevant and not every ep.

Thank you, flashback baby Jesus 

[bijoux]

I'm still skeptical about that. I think they're a handy excuse for the writers being lazy and not developing storylines and characters properly.

[Hiveminder]

16 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

 

Umm...it doesn't matter how far in advance you write. If the fandom stops watching because of what you've written then, yeah, they can claim credit for your ratings falling. (Or, you know, your sucky writing can claim credit. One of those two.)  I don't sit on my couch and think to myself, 'Well, when did they write this episode? December? Ok, I guess I'll watch next week.' News flash, if your ratings drop, it's because the fans aren't watching.

Should have said he thinks it silly for fandom to claim responsibility for storylines changing. Or better yet, nothing. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Hiveminder

[insomniadreams88]

They didn't expect the Susan backlash after how they introduced her? Maybe they all deleted that episode from their minds and that's the real problem. 

Also, about chemistry: wasn't there some quote about writing O/F this season where the chemistry took them? Maybe they should have had some more significant scenes between them early on in S5 because it looks more like, "we knew we couldn't find chemistry like them" - hence the comment about their chemistry in 520 - "so we did this." 

And quick Q: am I remembering wrong or hadn't there been some quote from S2/S3ish about why Felicity and Thea hadn't shared scenes being intentional? What's their excuse now? (I am just so annoyed about how few scenes we've gotten between those two. I think Thea had more scenes with Susan in her first episode than Felicity and Thea have had together all season.)

Edited April 1, 2017 by insomniadreams88

[way2interested]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

Also, about chemistry: wasn't there some quote about writing O/F this season where the chemistry took them? Maybe they should have had some more significant scenes between them early on in S5 because it looks more like, "we knew we couldn't find chemistry like them" - hence the comment about their chemistry in 520 - "so we did this." 

WM("We just see where the story takes us") said that not MG ("We've had this planned since 415"), so there's an answer to that.

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, way2interested said:

WM("We just see where the story takes us") said that not MG ("We've had this planned since 415"), so there's an answer to that.

Those two should really talk to each other before every interview. And in general. 

[leopardprint]

So she knows Oliver is Bratva and the Green Arrow and does nothing with that information. They date. That's it? That's the interesting story? ? So all her shady behavior? She's just naturally shady? It's not even in service of profressional advancement?

Edited April 1, 2017 by leopardprint
B/c a reporter not reporting the mayor is a gangster is...

[tangerine95]

It is totally suprising that they got backlash over a character they introduced as a shady threat and then had Oliver date her and get into conflict with his sister over her. No one could have predicted that character will be so hated. Just making her an stall LI while they totally ignored olicity was enough but they just made it so much worse. 

[leopardprint]

They couldn't possibly think they were showing her as just a hard nosed, aggressive, do anything for a story type reporter? They're not that dumb.

Narrator: "They are that dumb."

[apinknightmare]

I'm honestly surprised that MG and co have made it so far in their careers despite not expecting backlash for 99% of the stuff they do that is completely obvious they'll get backlash for.

[way2interested]

I'm wondering how whatever happens between Oliver and Felicity in 520 relates to 522. Like, I get that 521 probably brings up stuff about the kid and father/son relationships that Oliver and Chase had, but then 522 I guess brings the talk that Oliver and Felicity had back? Like reigniting their relationship or another talk/reference about it?

23 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Curious about the Queen mansion.

I thought it was weird how he connected "seeing it again" with "someone maybe inhabiting it even though it burned down" Seeing it again is one thing (parallels, 5 year story, legacy whatever), but seeing it with someone in it kind of makes the case different. Is Chase living in the burned down mansion post-518 since he's a psycho? Is it another character? Is it set-up for s6?

[Hiveminder]

2 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I'm wondering how whatever happens between Oliver and Felicity in 520 relates to 522. Like, I get that 521 probably brings up stuff about the kid and father/son relationships that Oliver and Chase had, but then 522 I guess brings the talk that Oliver and Felicity had back? Like reigniting their relationship or another talk/reference about it?

I thought it was weird how he connected "seeing it again" with "someone maybe inhabiting it even though it burned down" Seeing it again is one thing (parallels, 5 year story, legacy whatever), but seeing it with someone in it kind of makes the case different. Is Chase living in the burned down mansion post-518 since he's a psycho? Is it another character? Is it set-up for s6?

Maybe Vigilante lives there. 

[bijoux]

11 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I thought it was weird how he connected "seeing it again" with "someone maybe inhabiting it even though it burned down" Seeing it again is one thing (parallels, 5 year story, legacy whatever), but seeing it with someone in it kind of makes the case different. Is Chase living in the burned down mansion post-518 since he's a psycho? Is it another character? Is it set-up for s6?

 

8 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

Maybe Vigilante lives there. 

These both sound like fine options.

[Morrigan2575]

19 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

They couldn't possibly think they were showing her as just a hard nosed, aggressive, do anything for a story type reporter? They're not that dumb.

Narrator: "They are that dumb."

Sadly, i think that's what the whole thing ended up being. Susan was a hard nosed reporter out to prove Mayor Queen was incompetent but ends up being won over by his love for SC.

Why they made her Shady AF, I'll never know.

[leopardprint]

Maybe the burned out Queen Mansion is the site of the final fight? If the last episode is something about home. 

Olicity progression spec:

520 - F/O airing of grievances? FB shows reasons for stall 

521 - discuss William/future family?

522 - decide to try again post Felicity island rescue?

[bethy]

Do none of them know actual professional people? Like lawyers? Or reporters? Or CEOs? Half the time (more than half the time?) when they write people with real jobs it's like they've never met someone who, say, had to show up for work on time or pay bills or be competent or even have realistic qualifications for the job they're doing.

Did MG every practice law or does he simply have the degree?

Edited April 1, 2017 by bethy

[tangerine95]

11 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Sadly, i think that's what the whole thing ended up being. Susan was a hard nosed reporter out to prove Mayor Queen was incompetent but ends up being won over by his love for SC.

Why they made her Shady AF, I'll never know.

Probably but that's such a poinless storyline, I'll never get why waste time and money on that. I kept waiting for her big contribution to the plot to justify all those episodes she was in and all that hyping of her relationship with Oliver in interviews and nothing happened. Maybe it finally does in 5. 19 but i'm not expecting much. 

Maybe they set her up as shady just because they thought it was a twist if it turns out she isn't. But something in her storyline seems like it was changed last minute. All those bratva and russia hints and it all got dropped, its just weird. 

[apinknightmare]

13 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Sadly, i think that's what the whole thing ended up being. Susan was a hard nosed reporter out to prove Mayor Queen was incompetent but ends up being won over by his love for SC.

Why they made her Shady AF, I'll never know.

Remember when they were talking about how it would be difficult for Oliver to win her over? Bless. 

It did seem to be difficult for him to have sex with her, so maybe that's what they meant.

[Trisha]

26 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

They couldn't possibly think they were showing her as just a hard nosed, aggressive, do anything for a story type reporter? They're not that dumb

This is the part I don't understand. As soon as they started dating, her being a reporter just kind of melted away. Yes, we had that one scene of her talking to a PI after they slept together, but it had no real consequences for Oliver and she was quickly transformed into the victim of Thea's "villainy." They didn't show her struggling with conflicting thoughts about whether or not she should betray a guy she was starting to like for the biggest scoop of her career, and they certainly didn't show Oliver concerned about her being a reporter, even after he learned she was investigating him. Even if she was primarily meant as a ship stall, there was a lot of potential to explore Susan having to deal with an ethical dilemma, and Oliver struggling to maintain his secret identity while trying to have a personal life but they just ... didn't. 

I wonder if the mansion comes back in the flashbacks? Maybe a fb of Thea getting word that her brother was found on the island. Are we sure KC is only playing BS in 523 and not flashback Laurel as well?

[leopardprint]

She dropped a career making, bombshell story for Oliver. Really? That's what I judged her the hardest for. Poor Oliver, what did these writers do to you?

Yes, @Trisha! You said it better than me. It's like she was just at city hall because she really wanted to date a politician not report on city government. She stopped reporting once they started dating which was one scene in bed and a hug?

Edited April 1, 2017 by leopardprint

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

She dropped a career making, bombshell story for Oliver. Really? That's what I judged her the hardest for. Poor Oliver, what did these writers do to you?

Not to mention, she never seemed to work on what would've been an equally big story about the Star City DA being the Throwing Star Killer. 

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Not to mention, she never seemed to work on what would've been an equally big story about the Star City DA being the Throwing Star Killer. 

Yeah, maybe she should have her PI get her proof that Chase is Prometheus that she can use. Maybe that'll happen in 519, but when she asks her PI, he refuses: "Why? So you can just date him and waste my time and energy and your money putting in all this work to get you information you'll never use?" 

[BkWurm1]

6 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

 

And quick Q: am I remembering wrong or hadn't there been some quote from S2/S3ish about why Felicity and Thea hadn't shared scenes being intentional? What's their excuse now? (I am just so annoyed about how few scenes we've gotten between those two. I think Thea had more scenes with Susan in her first episode than Felicity and Thea have had together all season.)

I remember there being something about them trying to deliberately keep Oliver's worlds separate so he had his family and friends that didn't know the truth on one side and then his partners and secret keepers on the other and they didn't let them mix.  But all of that should have stopped by season three.  I actually thought it would and yet here we are, same old same old.

Edited April 2, 2017 by BkWurm1

[LeighAn]

I'm definitely thinking now that 5x20 starts the ball rolling for a reunion in 5x22, and Im not 100% ruling out re engagement at this point.

I love that Marc explicitly stated that Oliver and Black Siren will never be a thing because Stephen and Katie don't have chemistry while Stephen and Emily have oodles of chemistry.

I mean that should be obvious to anyone but...

I also wonder why Katie would come back to a show where already the show runner is shading her but cest la vie.

The good thing about Marc saying Black Sirens role is significant is that he said the sane thing about Haven rock this season which amounted to like three mentions haha. I really think she's just going to be the big bass minion but we will see.

I've reached the point of indifference to anything Susan related.

Im excited about Anatolyi being in season 6 possibly. I want to see the rebuild of his broken yet beautiful relationship with Oliver :p

[ARLES]

Maybe arrow is actually 32 episodes per season and they just don't air the rest. It's the only explanation for the crap these writers say in interviews, especially Wendy. 

[calliope1975]

11 minutes ago, ARLES said:

Maybe arrow is actually 32 episodes per season and they just don't air the rest. It's the only explanation for the crap these writers say in interviews, especially Wendy. 

That actually makes sense. Head canon accepted. 

After all the media buzz and fan response to 4 years of Olicity, combined with how far they took their relationship, TPTB would have to willfully ignorant/incredibly stupid/insert adjective to think the audience would be super cool and embrace temp LI's. But over and over again, across all their shows, they seem to have no clue how audiences are going to respond to their writing. Once or twice I understand. More than that seems ridiculous for professional writers on a series show. I have to hold out hope that there's at least one person in the writers' room who's bringing up obvious issues. "Guys, we're introducing Susan as extra shady with extremely poor ethics. The audience isn't going to like her." "But she doesn't out Oliver. The audience will love her. Go get us a latte."

[spartan]

I laughed so much about what this fan wrote, there will certainly be 23 episodes in season 6 and so, full of history they still have not written yet,   black siren can seduce oliver, 'Forget not , that laurel E2 is more sexy and dangerous than laurel E1

Excited for Katie and Black siren, the new lead female

[bethy]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

I'm honestly surprised that MG and co have made it so far in their careers despite not expecting backlash for 99% of the stuff they do that is completely obvious they'll get backlash for.

Every time I read that they're surprised about backlash, I'm like:

[LeighAn]

2 minutes ago, spartan said:

I laughed so much about what this fan wrote, there will certainly be 23 episodes in season 6 and so, full of history they still have not written yet,   black siren can seduce oliver, 'Forget not , that laurel E2 is more sexy and dangerous than laurel E1

Excited for Katie and Black siren, the new lead female

Then you should probably laugh at Marc then cause he's the one who said Black Siren and Oliver ain't happening because Katie has no chemistry with Stephen, which is not the first time Marc's said that btw.

[spartan]

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

Then you should probably laugh at Marc then cause he's the one who said Black Siren and Oliver ain't happening because Katie has no chemistry with Stephen, which is not the first time Marc's said that btw.

I know, but there may be another approach, black siren is not laurel E1, this can be fun for her, who knows? In any case, I do not see olicity being quiet during 23 episodes

[leopardprint]

I think the "shadiness" is supposed to be the mark of a "good reporter" according to the EPs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It was supposed to establish her primary character trait as "good reporter" not kickoff a storyline. Silly us, we expected her to report. 

A temporary LI could have worked if they were part of an actual storyline beyond "We want Oliver to be not single with not Felicity." A reporter could have worked if she and Oliver were looking into the same thing (TSK, corrupt cops) and they bonded over that or even the mutual loneliness if they showed that. 

And even though she turned out to be nothing, I resent the time they spent on her which could have been spent on Havenrock, Army Diggle, Rory, Oliver reviewing the city budget, Felicity organizing her shoes...literally anything else.

ETA: I can't even say she did nothing, she damaged Oliver's character and made him look naive, sad and desperate. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by leopardprint

[SmallScreenDiva]

Changing the character and the name doesn't change the fact that Stephen Amell turns stiff (and not in a complimentary way) when KC is around. Dude looks like he's smelling bad fish and can barely get out his words. So yeah, I don't think BS is happening. Glad Marc shut that down quickly, LOL!

Edited April 1, 2017 by SmallScreenDiva
added close parenthesis

[lemotomato]

Just thinking about the title of 5.22 again. Maybe "Missing" refers to the villains that Team Arrow put away in addition to whoever gets abducted? The jailbreak could start in 5.22 and conclude in 5.23, given that KC and Madison M filmed together this week, and JR Bourne is currently in Vancouver. 

[AveMaria30]

^ Hmm that's possible. Would make sense with the title as it can mean two different things within the episode. 

[Morrigan2575]

17 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Just thinking about the title of 5.22 again. Maybe "Missing" refers to the villains that Team Arrow put away in addition to whoever gets abducted? The jailbreak could start in 5.22 and conclude in 5.23, given that KC and Madison M filmed together this week, and JR Bourne is currently in Vancouver. 

Hopefully MG blacks it out in a way twitter can figure it out. If not, earliest we'll find out is when the episode description is released on May 3rd.