Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Angel12d]

I don't need Chase to be behind Helix in the sense that he controls it or anything but I'd like it if he was aware of it and was maybe the one who led Felicity to it. Otherwise he's kinda just skipped over Felicity in his plans to ruin Oliver which doesn't seem right to me. Like, he sets out to destroy Oliver's life and everyone he loves but doesn't target Felicity? Huh?

[Morrigan2575]

5 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I don't need Chase to be behind Helix in the sense that he controls it or anything but I'd like it if he was aware of it and was maybe the one who led Felicity to it. Otherwise he's kinda just skipped over Felicity in his plans to ruin Oliver which doesn't seem right to me. Like, he sets out to destroy Oliver's life and everyone he loves but doesn't target Felicity? Huh?

I always thought he targeted Felicity by setting Oliver up to kill Billy.

[Angel12d]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

I always thought he targeted Felicity by setting Oliver up to kill Billy.

That's true but it doesn't seem enough, IMO. I guess I just expected more, especially after he found out that didn't really do anything. 

[leopardprint]

I think that's why he was driving and whistling back to Star City. I'm getting the impression the Billy murder was Chase targeting Felicity and she didn't dive deep into Helix until after Evelyn left, right? So he doesn't know she's leveled up. I don't remember the relationship betweem F & E. Maybe she also underestimated her and gave Chase bad intel. 

ETA: Fast typers! I forgot about Artemis' existence and posited Chase didn't know that Felicity helped GA, oops.

Edited March 31, 2017 by leopardprint

[apinknightmare]

18 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

That's true but it doesn't seem enough, IMO. I guess I just expected more, especially after he found out that didn't really do anything. 

I'm guessing his big move regarding Felicity is one of his last planned moves, not one of the first.

[statsgirl]

Killing Billy was an attempt to 1. drive a wedge between Oliver and Felicity and 2. drive Oliver to despair at what he had done.  Chase is still taunting him with the knife to get him to explode.

If Chase knows Oliver, he knows that Felicity along with Thea are the most important people in Oliver's life right now.  I bet the show wants me to believe  that William is very important too.  Those are the people he's going to target in the end. 

Probably Chase has been dealing with Helix to mess with Felicity as part of the plan.

[way2interested]

Plus every time he's seemingly set back in his plans, there's always been some ulterior motive that works out for him (506 they kind of get him to stop murdering anagramed victims, but he got Evelyn to betray them, 511 they got Diggle out of prison, but he set hismelf as an ally of Oliver to betray him later, 516 they found Susan, but he set it up as a trap to kidnap Oliver), even now since being outed as a serial killer he doesn't seem to phase him, so there has to be some secret gain for him being outed to the public.

[Angel12d]

12 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I'm guessing his big move regarding Felicity is one of his last planned moves, not one of the first.

That's what I think too. Especially as I find it strange how Felicity is the only one who hasn't had any scenes with Chase yet. Feels intentional. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Angel12d

[Chaser]

I think the "You" scene was some multilayered foreshadowing. Olicity foreshadowing. Felicity's/Prometheus foreshadowing.

[Morena]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm adamantly Against Prometheus being connected to Helix. I just hate the entire idea. I don't know if Vigilante is possible but I'll take it over Chase in a Hot Minute

maybe Kovar?

[leopardprint]

Me too, @Morrigan2575, I think after the Billy storyline was made to be entirely about Oliver I just really want Helix not to be part of Prometheus' plan. I don't have a problem if that is how he is getting his info or if Helix double crosses her to him but it's a bridge too far for me as part of his master plan. I don't want it to be Merlyn either but at least Felicity has threatened him of her own volition. 

Oliver says "Helix has compromised your security." to Felicity in the promo. Does he mean her physical security or her computer security? And please let him tell her that Chase threatened her AND William! Not this again! Great googely moogely!

ETA: Would accept Merlyn if Thea is his second in command at Helix and that's why she's gone so much. Also, Thea must be endangered at some point right? How else does Merlyn show up unless strictly in flashbacks?

Edited March 31, 2017 by leopardprint

[ComicFan777]

Without more context, I took "Helix has compromised your security" to mean that Felicity's secret identity has been compromised - they've linked Overwatch to Felicity.  I take it that they also know who everyone is on Team Arrow, and Team Arrow doesn't know if they can be trusted with that information.

[calliope1975]

Quote

How do you end one journey and begin another?

With a wedding. 

What? Give me this!!!

Edited March 31, 2017 by calliope1975

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'll take a proposal at the end of this season and a wedding sometime during November sweeps ;)

[statsgirl]

Stephen Amell gets the "studio draft" of the script. Does that mean he gets it before the other cast members?

[Mellowyellow]

Question: What episode is that Thea and Oliver picture from? 

Also has he ever had that smile for anyone else? Cuz I always think of that smile as his "dopey Felicity" smile and I don't recall seeing it anywhere else except in relation to her. Feel free to correct me. Excitement is kinda getting out of control and this will end in TEARS if they botch it up! 

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Stephen Amell gets the "studio draft" of the script. Does that mean he gets it before the other cast members?

Yes.

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Question: What episode is that Thea and Oliver picture from? 

Also has he ever had that smile for anyone else? Cuz I always think of that smile as his "dopey Felicity" smile and I don't recall seeing it anywhere else except in relation to her. Feel free to correct me. Excitement is kinda getting out of control and this will end in TEARS if they botch it up! 

522.

[finnaire]

5 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm adamantly Against Prometheus being connected to Helix. I just hate the entire idea. I don't know if Vigilante is possible but I'll take it over Chase in a Hot Minute

I'm on this train too.  There's a big bad and then there's the all knowing, all seeing, all doing, always in the right place, always catching the right break kind of big bad that is just too over the top. Chase is reaching that critical mass for me. Allowing him, in any way, to have organized, operated or manipulated a hacker group is over the top.  It's already too convenient that he managed to track down and train with the woman who trained Oliver when even Oliver didn't know who she really was. And that Chase manages to insert himself into the DA's office (fortuitously having a law degree) just when Oliver becomes Mayor. For him to then have the knowledge and/or technical abilities to inveigle himself into a secret hacktivist organization too? A bridge too far. Unless Talia is the wizard behind the curtain, then it would make sense. As is, I'll give him Ninja and lawyer but not IT guru too.

Knowing that the EP's are openly political I can't help wondering if they would go with the literal Russians behind the hackers. In which case, I could see Kovar being the one in charge. Oliver hasn't mentioned him so Felicity wouldn't know who he is if she met him but we would.  And, I can see him becoming a S6 big bad.

If Helix is related to Vigilante, I got no clue.

[LeighAn]

So does everyone want to give their odds on a Flash Forward to end the season?

Im thinking right now 60/40 there will be one.

Stephens tweets make me suspicious. 

As long as they lock Olicity down with no funny business I'll live with whatever crazy shit they try #sorrynotsorry 

[Mellowyellow]

Do you think it will be a good fast forward or a bad one?

I don't think I could endure one that teases Oliver/BS (whatever her name on E2 is) or some sh@t like that! I NEED to lock in Olicity. If they end Olicity on a bad note this season (kidnapping, memory loss, jail or some other miserable f@ckery) but FF to Olicity babies I will be ok with that. 

I WILL NOT ENDURE ANY SHIP WARS!!! WILL NOT DO IT!!!!!!!!

[Belinea]

As long as Diggle isn't dead in any flash forwards... I seriously hate flash forwards that are depressing or cliffhangers... 

[lexicon]

IF they do a FF to Oliver/BS then they're dumber than I thought lol

[Trisha]

45 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

So does everyone want to give their odds on a Flash Forward to end the season?

Im thinking right now 60/40 there will be one.

Stephens tweets make me suspicious. 

As long as they lock Olicity down with no funny business I'll live with whatever crazy shit they try #sorrynotsorry 

Even if they flash forward to a happy a Olicity I still don't want it because one thing that's always bugged me about how the writers handled that relationship is that they made so much of the good times happen offscreen. The summer between S2 and S3 was apparently a flirtfest, but you wouldn't know unless you read the digital comic (which the vast majority of the audience didn't). And they went from jumping in a car at the end of S3 to living together at the start of S4, skipping all over their world travels. I always felt cheated that we missed out on seeing more of the good times, and I think it's why a portion of the audience were down on Olicity in S3-4; they didn't establish them long enough or strong enough onscreen for non-shippers before saddling them with angst. 

Not to mention the "who's in the grave" flash forward wasn't very well received, so I'd hope they've learned from that. 

[LeighAn]

Considering the pap with the source who confirmed Katie was coming back as a regular in season 6 also said Olicity would be together in season 6 I'm not worried about some anti- Olicity flash forward as I'm feeling fairly confident they'll lock Olicity down going forward.

But I am worried they are going to pull a Flash Forward about something else outside of Olicity.

Edited March 31, 2017 by LeighAn

[bijoux]

I think there's a good shot of it because I think they're using the flashbacks as a crutch. They could simply switch to a new-ish gimick.

[Morrigan2575]

6 hours ago, finnaire said:

Knowing that the EP's are openly political I can't help wondering if they would go with the literal Russians behind the hackers. In which case, I could see Kovar being the one in charge. Oliver hasn't mentioned him so Felicity wouldn't know who he is if she met him but we would.  And, I can see him becoming a S6 big bad.

I actually wondered if Kovar was behind Helix simply because of MGs politics and the current state of the union. I dismissed it as too on the nose but, now that you've put it out there I can't help but wonder.

[bijoux]

EK's emoji reactions to the finale.

Maybe the Santa emoji means they flash forward to 84-year-old Oliver. Or maybe the Hood's naughty list makes a comeback. I don't know whether they're chronological, but if they are seems to me like EK is sceptical about the ending. Which doesn't make me happy, but it does amuse me. 

Trying to decide whether I think the crying one is the reaction to O/F tearfully reuniting on Craphole Island or one of the noobs biting it there. They've got to make room for KC next year.

[Chaser]

I think chances are they will do a Flash forward. I think it would have gone over better if they didn't bring KC back, which undermines their previous big Flash forward storyline. 

I need someone to ask if the emojis are in order.

I'm not set on a Helix theory, I just know I want it to go into S6. I will say that I really want a scene with EBR and DL, so Kovar wouldn't make me mad. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Chaser

[way2interested]

Just now, bijoux said:

Maybe the Santa emoji means they flash forward to 84-year-old Oliver. Or maybe the Hood's naughty list makes a comeback. I don't know whether they're chronological, but if they are seems to me like EK is sceptical about the ending. Which doesn't make me happy, but it does amuse me. 

Trying to decide whether I think the crying one is the reaction to O/F tearfully reuniting on Craphole Island or one of the noobs biting it there. They've got to make room for KC next year.

If it is chronological, then EK kind of seems more of teasing in the ending (since that skeptic face could mean any point of the episode right before the ending, same for all the others) rather than wary, unless he just means he likes where it seems to be going for s6.

What I find funny is that he starts it out with a scared face while SA starts it out with a happy one (for all I know he's referring to whatever EK's referring to with his smiling emoji, but it als might not be), and they both use the skull face (which, idk, my gut reaction was that Chase dies, since tbh I can't see any of the noobs dying unless it's Evelyn).

[LeighAn]

I just want to know what the Santa means! Haha

[Soulfire]

Bearded, long-haired island-Oliver? 

[Trisha]

48 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I'm not set on a Helix theory, I just know I want it to go into S6. I will say that I really want a scene with EBR and DL, so Kovar wouldn't make me mad. 

I read a good spec on Tumblr (sorry, I can't find it anymore; if anyone knows what I'm talking about please add the link), about Lyla/Argus being behind Helix. It would be a very Amanda Waller-ish thing for Lyla to do, and it explains why she's back (and why there may be some tension between her and Dig). I'm not sure if I believe that she'd put Felicity in danger, but we don't really know exactly how dangerous/evil Helix is yet. 

[tv echo]

17 hours ago, Belinea said:

Why couldn't Moira come back or visit from E2? Everybody who doesn't really need to pop by again does, but the best ones stay dead...It bums me out. 

Also, does Felicity always have such dark make-up for her eyes or is it just me seeing things?  When I say the promo that is the first thing I thought of. 

I just read an article (which I'm not posting here) where the writer complained that Laurel was the one death that stuck on Arrow, somehow forgetting about the permanent deaths of Robert, Tommy, Moira, etc. The same writer also argued that Black Siren would be better served starring on LoT because Arrow never did right by Laurel.  

Speaking of Black Siren... Don't Black Siren and Tinah have basically the same origin story?  Each woman lost her lover (E2-Oliver, Vince), became metahuman with a sonic canary cry, and then used her new superpower to take out her grief, anger and aggression by killing people. The difference is that Tinah only killed bad guys (like Oliver), while Black Siren killed innocents as well. Still, they both murdered people.  So it seems like they would have the same story possibilities in S6.

I also thought that Felicity's heavy eye makeup was odd. Maybe that's her version of Oliver's eye blacking makeup from S1?

JustJaredJr has since edited his article to make it clear that he was just speculating about the Vigilante:

Quote

While Arrow‘s Felicity is spending time and working at Helix, she’s going to run into someone who is going to be major trouble — could it be Vigilante unmasked?

http://www.justjaredjr.com/2017/03/30/felicity-will-meet-vigilante-before-everyone-else-on-arrow/

Edited March 31, 2017 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

Santa = Prezzies?

I know they made Black Siren a regular for next season but that doesn't mean she's going to be on Team Arrow. At least I really hope not.

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Do you think it will be a good fast forward or a bad one?

A suspenseful one.  Oliver's five year journey is now over, hopefully he's with Felicity, and the EPs will want people not assume the show is done but to tune in next season.

7 hours ago, finnaire said:

Knowing that the EP's are openly political I can't help wondering if they would go with the literal Russians behind the hackers. In which case, I could see Kovar being the one in charge. Oliver hasn't mentioned him so Felicity wouldn't know who he is if she met him but we would.  And, I can see him becoming a S6 big bad.

I don't think Dolph Lundgren would be interested in being tied down for a year like that.  Or that  Arrow can afford him.

They really did luck into the Russian/hacking thing though.  It's been known for years that the Russians have been trying to influence elections in other countries although I doubt GB, MG and AK were aware of it in 2011 when they planned for Oliver to be a Bratva captain but no one, probably not even Putin, could have anticipated the effect on the US election.

Quote

I also thought that Felicity's heavy eye makeup was odd. Maybe that's her version of Oliver's eye blacking makeup from S1?

Don't they all except KC darken around their eyes under the masks?  KC wouldn't do it which is why hers looked so strange.

Edited March 31, 2017 by statsgirl

[LeighAn]

5 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

Don't they all except KC darken around their eyes under the masks?  KC wouldn't do it which is why hers looked so strange.

Why didn't she want to do it?

31 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

Bearded, long-haired island-Oliver? 

Oh good one! That makes sense.

[bethy]

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

Why didn't she want to do it?

I think she wanted everyone to see her spidery eyelashes or something because she thought they looked cool? Also. Vanity.

[SmallScreenDiva]

8 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Why didn't she want to do it?

To highlight the spider lashes.

[LeighAn]

Just now, bethy said:

I think she wanted everyone to see her spidery eyelashes or something because she thought they looked cool? Also. Vanity.

Ha! That reminds me didn't she give an interview where she talked about working "really hard" with the make up artist to find the right lipstick shade to make Black Canary feminine... cause you know, priorities. I vaguely recall an interview along those lines.

[leopardprint]

24 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

  It's been known for years that the Russians have been trying to influence elections in other countries although I doubt GB, MG and AK were aware of it in 2011...

Hahahahaha I know that's not what you meant, but I'm picturing them secretly meeting with ex KGB agents now and being like "this will make a great TV show". I doubt any writer could have come up with the current crazypants political reality. 

Santa is the S6 villain? Santa is behind Helix? Maybe it means someone's wish/dream is being granted? 

For 522 Missing, I'm flip flopping between Felicity, William, Thea or the whole team getting kidnapped. 

Did I miss Chase' play on Thea? He didn't directly threaten her like Felicity and William right? 

Do we know if the Samantha/kid actors have been filming at all? It would be so dumb if they were 2/2 in kidnapping when the kid shows up but they love repeating themselves. Maybe if Chase takes both the kid and Felicity to the island or sets up some sort of choice between them.

Felicity looks like she has a fancyish hairdo as well. Or is a smoky eye supposed to show her descent into darkness? I'm down with the Lyla/Helix spec but it seems redundant for Argus to need an outside hacker group. I think she wants to take them down or absorb them and that causes conflict. Maybe Oliver/Diggle/Curtis give Lyla the information on Helix to save Felicity.

Edited March 31, 2017 by leopardprint

[Morrigan2575]

Is there anything that supports a Flash Forward?

[tv echo]

Unlike last season, the back half of S5 is starting to look like an improvement over the front half. (Caveat: the season's not over yet and could still end up in the dumpster.) So I took a look at the directors and writers for this season. While the writers haven't changed that much from 5A to 5B, there are a lot more NEW directors in 5B. So now I'm wondering how much of an episode is shaped by the writing and how much is shaped by the directing...

Ep    Director                   Writers

501  James Bamford        MG & WM
502  James Bamford        Speed Weed & Beth Schwartz
503  Gregory Smith         Ben Sokolowski & Emilio Ortega Aldrich
504  Dermott Downs       Brian Ford Sullivan & Oscar Balderrama    
505  Laura Belsey             Oscar Balderrama & Sarah Tarkoff
506  John Behring            WM & Brian Ford Sullivan
507  Gordon Verheul       Ben Sokolowski & Emilio Ortega Aldrich
508  James Bamford        MG & WM    
509  Antonio Negret        WM & Beth Schwartz

510  Gregory Smith          Ben Sokolowski & Brian Ford Sullivan
511  Mark Bunting            Speed Weed & Sarah Tarkoff    
512  Ben Bray                    Oscar Balderrama & Emilio Ortega Alrich
513  Kristin Windell           MG
514  Mary Lambert            Barbara Bloom & Jenny Lynn
515  Michael Schultz          Speed Weed & Ben Sokolowski    
516  Ken Shane                  Beth Schwartz & Sarah Tarkoff
517  Kevin Tanchaeron       Brian Ford Sullivan & Emilio Ortega Aldrich
518  JJ Makaro                   Rebecca Bellotto
519  Joel Navoa                  Speed Weed & Elizabeth Kim
520  Wendy Stanzler          WM & Beth Schwartz
521  Laura Belsey                MG & Sarah Tarkoff    
522  Mairzee Almas            Speed Weed & Oscar Balderrama
523  Jesse Warn                  WM & MG

Edited March 31, 2017 by tv echo

[leopardprint]

12 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Is there anything that supports a Flash Forward?

I really hope that they don't do flash forwards. Was the S4 flash forward considered a success? They don't seem willing to plan thoroughly enough ahead of time for this to work. I also think that flash forward was partially (mostly) inspired by Shonda's HTGAWM. They should use the FB time for Diggle/Felicity/Thea storylines.

Edited March 31, 2017 by leopardprint

[theOAfc]

Personally i loved the flashforward in season 4(it also created a lot of buzz) and i think its a much more interesting element than flahsbacks. However using it all the time can be boring so if they try to fill a large part of s6 with flashforward scenes because flashbacks are gonna be over, they will probably fail to keep people interested.

Edited March 31, 2017 by theOAfc

[leopardprint]

@theOAfc, did you like it because of the content of the flash forward, the mysterious death or the device itself? I think the buzz was from "someone's going to die but who?" and I just don't see how they can keep it high stakes. Are they going to kill a Canary every season? Who cares? I do agree it will get old very quickly. 

[LeighAn]

32 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Is there anything that supports a Flash Forward?

I just find Stephens How do we end one journey and begin another? Tweet . It felt very flash forwardy teasey to me but who knows.

[tangerine95]

I could see them doing a flashforward again but I hope they don't because if the season is ending on a good note which imo it most likely is then the ff will probably be something miserable which will be like a dark cloud over season 6 and they already had plenty of misery this season.I hope they keep season 6 lighter like in 4A.

[Trisha]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

http://www.justjaredjr.com/2017/03/30/felicity-will-meet-vigilante-before-everyone-else-on-arrow/

Thanks for pointing out that JJ is just using EW's quote and then making a leap about Vigilante; I don't know that he's connected to Helix at all. 

Also, MM's tweet makes me wonder if this is more proof that they're really cracking down on the leaks. Why else would they be releasing this stuff to the press?

Edited March 31, 2017 by Trisha

[insomniadreams88]

If they do a flashforward, please don't let it be another grave mystery. I was over the whole "who dies?" mystery by mid-S4. I can only imagine how annoyed I'd be by another "who is going to die?" if they tease it before the summer break, especially knowing they probably won't open up S6 with the answer. 

[statsgirl]

Okay, now I really want to know about this stalker and who he is stalking and if on other shows too.  But if it was only about cracking down on leaks, the dossier wouldn't be icky.  Needing to shower feels like there's something more.

I liked the s4 flash forward but I don't think they can use that more than very sparingly. I expect there will be flashbacks next season but more for other characters than Oliver.

47 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Unlike last season, the back half of S5 is starting to look like an improvement over the front half. (Caveat: the season's not over yet and could still end up in the dumpster.) So I took a look at the directors and writers for this season. While the writers haven't changed that much from 5A to 5B, there are a lot more NEW directors in 5B. So now I'm wondering how much of an episode is shaped by the writing and how much is shaped by the directing...

I think that while bad directing can weaken a good script, no director can save a bad one.  (I still don't understand Antonio Negret's decision at the end of 509 to have no one comfort Felicity though.) But Arrow does tend too much to the Bro Code where directors like Bam Bam and Gregory Smith, whose styles I don't like because they minimize the interpersonal beats and overdo the action, get to direct a lot because they're buds with the EPs.

But I think the biggest problem the last two seasons has been the plotting and that's all on the EPs.  Until they realize how they're screwing it up, it's not going to get better.

Edited March 31, 2017 by statsgirl

[Trisha]

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Okay, now I really want to know about this stalker and who he is stalking and if on other shows too.  But if it was only about cracking down on leaks, the dossier wouldn't be icky.  Needing to shower feels like there's something more.

Me too! We know that some of the paps (CG in particular) has said some pretty terrible things about the actresses on these shows. They definitely seem proud of breaking the MB/CW relationship news too. I don't think those guys are behind the big, full synopsis leaks though.

I wonder if the Vancouver shows are going against the source of the leaks legally, and warning media not to use them as a source? Or at least to be on the lookout for stuff coming from the source leaks.