Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Sakura12]

The word "Oracle" existed well before comic books. So it's not really something they can tell people not to use because comics. I just figured they could use it as Felicity's badass hacker name from when she was younger. 

[calliope1975]

The word "Oracle" existed well before comic books. So it's not really something they can tell people not to use because comics. I just figured they could use it as Felicity's badass hacker name from when she was younger. 

 

While "Oracle" has existed forever, the title is definitely associated with someone already in the DCU. It possible DC decided they didn't want to let that title go to another yet even though they aren't currently using it for that character. Or could just be an episode title change that means nothing. It is kinda weird that they changed the title now though. 

[KirkB]

Since not everybody spends any time on boards like this, a lot of people may not know Oracle had anything to do with Felicity but the showrunners wanted people to know so they changed the name (though it's also possible DC told them to change it because of Ms. Gordon). Similarly, Demon's Head probably got changed to League of Assassins because they didn't want anyone to think Ra's himself was coming. Yet.

[Morrigan2575]

Similarly, Demon's Head probably got changed to League of Assassins because they didn't want anyone to think Ra's himself was coming. Yet.

Which makes me wonder, the first Sara centric episode of the back half (213) was called Heir to the Demon, a continuation (of sorts) of League of Assassins. So maybe (if 313 is Felicity centric) we'll get a follow up that's called Oracle or something related?

[blixie]

 

I only take that to mean that the fan speculation was wrong, not that the producers have shifted their plans or don't know who Felicity is.

That was my assumptions fans we're making more of it than there was, so they wanted to nip that kind of speculation in the bud, de-escalate expectations.  In any case I really never wanted Felicity to be Oracle so if they did change that as a plan: good.

[statsgirl]

I wouldn't have minded a bit on Oliver's kid, as long as it was only a bit.  It would have tied in with the 'parenthood' theme of the show, with Diggle's baby and Thea/Malcolm and Felicity and her one or two parents.

I hope the "Secret Origins" episode is meant to be funny. I can see things being played as ominous but turning out to be more like Fred's parents did on Angel. They could have named it melodramatically to feed into the comedy. She probably has a secret, but my bet is that it's more embarrassing than dangerous, as the title would imply.

Maybe they mean it like a joke -- we've waited so long for any backstory on Felicity that it's a nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

 

So Mama Smoak comes to Starling ... or Star City. I wonder if she gets to meet Oliver or Diggle,. That should be an interesting scene.

 

It would be weird not to have some mention of her father if her mother is there, either some information on why he left or what his job was.  I guess they're pushing her daddy story to another season though.

[TanyaKay]

I don't think it would be weird if they do not mention dad at all. In families where dads leave their kids at an early age and then do not stay in touch, they fade away - not only from lives but also from conversations. If Felicity and Mama Smoak do not discuss Daddy Smoak, that would be okay with me. I have a feeling that dad would be making an appearance later this season.

[abhi]

https://twitter.com/OutlawHobbies/status/501055464927277057

 

According to the above tweet both Caity Lotz and Katrina Law were in Vancouver on Saturday, August 16. So, both of them have some scenes in 3x04 and most probably in Nanda Parbat.

[Morrigan2575]

I wonder if that's why they were filming on Saturday?  Apparently SA did part of his Q&A on Saturday and wasn't happy about having to work over the weekend.  

 

I didn't see this posted here, it's another SDCC article, fairly long, I didn't see anything new but some more details about Thea and stuff.

 

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=54915

"The thing about the flashbacks is that we're not necessarily flashing back to the island, but we're flashing back to the five years between the crash of the Queen's Gambit and Oliver's return from the island," Kreisberg said. "There were hints all along the way that he hadn't been on the island the whole time. When we made the pilot, there were two ideas that Marc [Guggenheim], Greg [berlanti] and I had from the very beginning. One was that Sarah was still alive and that she would be the Canary when we saw her next. And the other one was that at the end of Season 2, Oliver would wake up not on the island. It's amazing to now be here in Season 3 and have gotten to those changes. But as always, the flashback story will be the continuing evolution of Oliver becoming the person we saw in the pilot. For the first two years, even though he gained some of the skills we saw when he returned to Starling, he was very much still the young Oliver. This season, we're going to see him take a big step into darkness and change as the things he's up against in the flashbacks really challenge his morality and humanity. You'll understand a lot more of what we saw in the pilot."

 

I'm not sure I buy the part I highlighted in bold.  AK said last year (around episode 19, I think) that they were originally going to make Sara Ravager but then changed their mind and made her Canary.  Now I can buy that they started setting Sara up as Canary in S1 when they had that dinner party, don't remember the episode.  But from the pilot?  And if they've planned on Sara being the Canary from the pilot did they really not think people would like her and want to keep her?

Edited August 19, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

Nothing much new, but I thought this quote by David Ramsey was interesting (a lot of DR quotes in this article)....

"The big heavy is someone who will bring a lot of darkness -- even more so than Barrowman's Merlyn or Manu's Slade," Ramsey added. "I think darkness is part of the overall tone of the show. We've talked about some more humor coming in, in terms of what Oliver does. He'll start matching that more into the Green Arrow of the comics who's more humorous and quirky. But I don't think it changes the way the show is dark and brooding -- which is a great contrast to 'Flash' which has a completely different feel."

AMELL, KREISBERG & MORE ON HOW "ARROW" CONTINUES TO GROW THE DC UNIVERSE
Posted: 21 hours ago | Updated: 21 hours ago
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=54915

 

The EPs really love their Hollywood screen legends.  So far, in different interviews, they've compared SA to Clark Gable and John Wayne, and they've compared BR to Jimmy Stewart, Cary Grant, and Humphrey Bogart.  Those are all vastly different types of men, so I don't know what the EPs are talking about.

 

EDITED TO ADD:  Sorry, I didn't realize @Morrigan2575 had already posted this article link above when I posted this reply.

Edited August 20, 2014 by tv echo

[NumberCruncher]

I don't get that either, @tv echo.  Not only are all of those men different, but they don't describe SA and they REALLY don't describe BR.

 

I do like that they are bringing in more humor/sarcasm to make TV Arrow more like the Green Arrow of the comics.  The gloom and doom feel was making the show too much of a Batman knockoff. 

[Velocity23]

Arrow' casts DC Comics villain Komodo

Matt Ward (TRON: Legacy and Hellcats) has been tapped to play Simon Lacroix, otherwise known as DC Comics villain Komodo,

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/08/19/arrow-komodo-matt-ward-season3-spoilers/

[apinknightmare]

Arrow' casts DC Comics villain Komodo

Matt Ward (TRON: Legacy and Hellcats) has been tapped to play Simon Lacroix, otherwise known as DC Comics villain Komodo,

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/08/19/arrow-komodo-matt-ward-season3-spoilers/

 

“Yes, he’s the villain-of-the-week for the second week of the show, but you’ll see that Team Arrow’s pursuit of him is part and parcel of a season-long storyline,” executive producer Marc Guggenheim says.

 

So, is this a late announcement and Komodo's the VotW in "Sara" or did MG get his weeks mixed up?

[DrSpaceman10]

So, is this a late announcement and Komodo's the VotW in "Sara" or did MG get his weeks mixed up?

 

I think he is the VotW for "Sara". TVLine had a spoilers column a few weeks back that referred to a "deadly mercenary" (which is how Komodo is referenced in the EW article) who comes to town in episode two. I wonder how he ties into Sara though.

Edited August 19, 2014 by drspaceman10

[wonderwall]

You would think they would've released a casting decision earlier if he were in the second episode? 

 

I don't think Komodo will be in the second episode. I mean, what does he have to do with Sara? Komodo is supposed to be Oliver's arch enemy not BCs. Maybe Guggenheim got mixed up and meant the 6th episode? 

[abhi]

Its definitely for the second episode "Sara" because the main villain in that episode was supposed to be a mercenary. Most probably Sara comes to the town to capture this guy and enlists the help of Oliver to do so.( Guggenheim had said that Sara comes back for a very specific purpose). She must have been asked to bring him to the League by Ra's and so once he is captured maybe Sara transports him back to the League thus including him in the overarching arc of the Season.

[dtissagirl]

Stalking actors should pay me moneys. I found this pic on Matt Ward's Instagram from 4 weeks ago:

 

http://instagram.com/p/qzmDdsqgif/

 

You can see part of the Arrow logo in the script he's holding, so it does make sense if he was on ep 2, which was filmed 4 weeks ago [July 21 to July 30].

[apinknightmare]

Stalking actors should pay me moneys. I found this pic on Matt Ward's Instagram from 4 weeks ago:

 

http://instagram.com/p/qzmDdsqgif/

 

You can see part of the Arrow logo in the script he's holding, so it does make sense if he was on ep 2, which was filmed 4 weeks ago [July 21 to July 30].

 

I'm enjoying the LoA-style hat...subtle, haha

 

Also, excellent sleuthing !

Edited August 19, 2014 by apinknightmare

[BkWurm1]

Unless Komodo is more important than JUST a VoTW, I don't understand why the show won't just make up their own throw away bad guy and save the ones with recognizable names for when they can actually do something more worthy with them. 

[Morrigan2575]

I don't think he's a throwaway persay, maybe im reading too much into his comment but I wonder if his ultimate fate is LoA...meaning he either works/worked for Ra's or gets recruited into the LoA?

Or who knows maybe this will lead to The Outsiders? Not for S3 because they really have too much as is but if Katana shows up in Starling then they could set a basis for the S4 story.

[Angel12d]

Yeah I looked up Matt Ward on IMDB and it says there he's in the 'Sara' episode. I don't know how accurate that is because I don't venture there very often. 

 

I'm really interested to see how all these VoTW's kind of connect and become part of a greater story. I know they said there would be a mystery but haven't they pretty much given away that the real Big Bad is Ra's al Ghul?

[catrox14]

YES!  He was Young Uriel on SPN.  Good choice!

[Angel12d]

Nothing much new, but I thought this quote by David Ramsey was interesting (a lot of DR quotes in this article)....

AMELL, KREISBERG & MORE ON HOW "ARROW" CONTINUES TO GROW THE DC UNIVERSE

Posted: 21 hours ago | Updated: 21 hours ago

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=54915

 

The EPs really love their Hollywood screen legends.  So far, in different interviews, they've compared SA to Clark Gable and John Wayne, and they've compared BR to Jimmy Stewart, Cary Grant, and Humphrey Bogart.  Those are all vastly different types of men, so I don't know what the EPs are talking about.

 

Yeah, those are odd comparisons. They all have different screen presence too. I don't see the connection. However, those comparisons are interesting in the context of the Felicity - Oliver - Ray love triangle they are setting up. There's one movie which features both Clark Gable and Jimmy Stewart which was Wife vs Secretary. I'm assuming Felicity takes on the 'secretary' role there and in the movie, she ends up with Jimmy Stewart (Ray).

 

As I've always seen Ray as a foil and nothing more, I'm guessing the EP's are only using those comparisons in terms of banter and Felicity being caught between two men. I hope so anyway. I really don't want anything major to happen with Felicity and Ray. 

Edited August 20, 2014 by Angel12d

[Velocity23]

Katie & Katrina were shooting with Paul. So Nyssa is in episode 4. 

Edited August 20, 2014 by Velocity23

[abhi]

https://twitter.com/PaulBlackthorne/status/501899316727136257

 

Now, I am confused, Paul Blackthorne shot scene with Katrina Law and Cassidy for 3x04. So is Nyssa in starling city or is it some sort of flashback? We know that Lotz has also shot scenes for 3x04 which I believe is for Nanda Parbat so Sara is at Nanda parbat and Nyssa in Starling. Its getting a bit confusing.

[Velocity23]

Big things are happening according to Stephen in episode 4!

 

[apinknightmare]

I wonder where Sara is during this Quentin, Laurel, and Nyssa scene. Hopefully she's somewhere still breathing.

[icandigit]

 

Katie & Katrina were shooting with Paul. So Nyssa is in episode 4.

I'm all for it if the scene includes a tranq dart.

[KirkB]

Here's the scene I envision. Quentin and Laurel are at one of their homes when there is a knock on the door. Laurel answers it and Quentin sees her grab her neck and fall down. Nyssa and Sara come in. He doesn't react, except to ask if they want coffee. They step over Laurel.

[Carrie Ann]

I wonder where Sara is during this Quentin, Laurel, and Nyssa scene. Hopefully she's somewhere still breathing.

 

I don't even really want to respond to this, because I'm starting to get a really bad feeling about it.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[catrox14]

It looks like the writing is on the wall re Sara.  I'm now thinking it's going to be Nyssa that trains Laurel because Sara has died and it's the girlfriend and the sister joining forces. ugh

[ban1o]

Ooh with Stephen amells post about big finale things happening and Paul blackthorne only shooting with Nysa and not Sara I am definitely feeling something is happening to Sara.But the Ep's did say she was going to be in at least 5 episodes. Either that's misleading info, Sara doesn't die or it's flashbacks.

[tv echo]

If Sara dies early in the season, she could still appear in flashbacks.  In fact, I can see them doing parallels of Nyssa training Sara in flashbacks with Nyssa training Laurel in the present day - hence, that EP interview comment about Laurel seeing if she can walk in her sister's shoes.

Edited August 20, 2014 by tv echo

[icandigit]

The creators are doing all types of bartering and negotiations. Let us have Laurel as Canary and kill Sara. We will give you Nysaa, Olicity, other character flashbacks and Ra's. See aren't you happy now.

[ban1o]

To be fair I think ever since Sara was introduced, the intention was to kill her off. I think she actually would have died earlier if she wasn't so well liked as a character. I didn't think they foresaw that.saying that I'm not completely sure she dies in season episode 4 but I think she will bite the bullet in season 3 .

[abhi]

I don't think Nyssa has time or interest to train Laurel.Episode 3x04 is Malcom's episode and therefore the League is involved and with Laurel being DA and Quentin being the top cop, this might be plausible reason for their scenes together.

 

I think its too early for Sara to die, not before her own flashbacks. Doing the origin flashback when a character is dead won't be good from a story telling point of view. Besides, I think it was Guggenheim who had said that the main arc of this season takes place around and due to Sara and she sort of weaves through these stories. And when asked about Sara's role or which side she will be on this Season, Guggenheim had said that this season will also deal with loyalties etc. So, looking at these data, I don't think she will die early. If Sara dies, it will be towards the end of the season.

[JayKay]

I (pray)believe that Sara's fine and I'm superduper looking forward to more of Quentin and Nyssa interacting. God, I hope there's snark.

[Starfish35]

While part of me shares the fear about Sara's fate, and I have no good explanation about why Nyssa would be in a scene with Quentin and Laurel without Sara, I tend to agree with @abhi. While I might be wrong, I tend to think Sara will be around for awhile longer. For one, Colton said that something would draw Roy and Sara closer together. I'm not sure how that would happen if Sara dies early on. And for another, why bother to bring Ted Grant on at all if Nyssa is going to be training Laurel?

[wonderwall]

I don't think I can take any spoilers even hinting towards Sara's demise... Just... No

 

[Morrigan2575]

Except none of these spoilers actually hint at or indicate Sara's death...it's just fans that keep repeating the same line over and over again, ever since the character was introduced.  She's going to die, oh no she's going to do...well, that totally means she's going to die. 

 

People were convinced every episode last season that it was her last episode, even when the spoiler came out about Moira's death people refused to believe it, kept saying no it's going to be Sarah, even when we had proof that CL was in episode 21 it was oh flashbacks....etc.

[wonderwall]

LOL that's true. But honestly, it seems as though Sara's character was made to die. Die for Laurel's journey, that is. Sara not dying in the finale completely caught me by surprise tbqh. 

 

Then again, I still remember CH saying Sara goes down a darker path. She can't go down a darker path nor get closer to Roy if she's dead. 

 

Regardless, can Sara never die please? 

[ban1o]

LOL that's true. But honestly, it seems as though Sara's character was made to die. Die for Laurel's journey, that is. Sara not dying in the finale completely caught me by surprise tbqh. 

 

Then again, I still remember CH saying Sara goes down a darker path. She can't go down a darker path nor get closer to Roy if she's dead. 

 

Regardless, can Sara never die please?

Yeah due to CH comments, I think Sara is still alive after episode 4. But I do think her character will die eventually. I think she would have died earlier if her character wasn't as well liked as she is.

[blixie]

 

LOL that's true. But honestly, it seems as though Sara's character was made to die. Die for Laurel's journey, that is. Sara not dying in the finale completely caught me by surprise tbqh.

 

Yeah it's natural to think a comic book show is going to eventually hew back to the canon of the comic books, and Sara doesn't even exist in those (?), while Dinah Laurel Lance does. It is legitimate to worry TPTB are trying to groom/rebuild Katie Cassidy's Laurel into the canon Black Canary, and will sacrifice the life of the current Black Canary to do so.

 

I can not believe they'll kill her off in 3X04 though, I've thought the whole point of keeping Sara around is she's hugely popular as BC, and Laurel is widely derided, to kill Sara off before they get any solid feedback on re-making Laurel into Canary would be odd. They could have just killed Sara last year, if Laurel taking over wasn't contingent on good feedback.

[wonderwall]

I thoroughly believe there will be more vitriol towards Laurel if Sara dies in order to service Laurel's character :/ 

 

Why kill off a fan favorite character for a half-baked divisive one? 

[ban1o]

I thoroughly believe there will be more vitriol towards Laurel if Sara dies in order to service Laurel's character :/ 

 

Why kill off a fan favorite character for a half-baked divisive one?

The writers have written themselves into a corner with the Sara character. We already have a fully fledged black canary character who is extremely bad ass has a backstory, years of training and is a fan favourite. Why would people care about laurel becoming black canary in that case? I do think their intention is to still make laurel black canary because that is comic book cannon but it makes no sense to have two black canary's at the same time and why would laurel even become black canary if Sara, a much more skilled black canary, is still there? That's why I think Sara has to die, but of course that just might make more people dislike laurel because more people like Sara than Laurel.

If their intention is to make laurel black canary eventually, introducing Sara's character was a huge mistake.

[wonderwall]

Basically Laurel will always be compared to Sara whether or  not Sara is dead. 

 

One of my worst fears for season 3 is that the writers will ruin Sara's character by retconning her in order to make Laurel seem like the only viable BC. Not only would this be terrible story-telling, it wouldn't really help Laurel's situation. Just because you take out the competition, doesn't mean everyone will automatically like and accept Laurel to be BC. 

 

Another way they could avoid issues is by having Sara being the only BC. As in, she's the Canary now, and she'll go through her issues, go down the dark path. Then either Quentin, Laurel, or Mama Lance (sorry, I forgot her name) will die and Sara will make an evolution towards BC in order to 'honor' Laurel/Quentin/mama Lance. Then that leaves the question, what will they do with Laurel? She can either be Sara's non-mask person. Sara's Felicity and Diggle. Or Laurel can become Manhunter. (I actually don't mind this one lol). 

 

And I agree, Sara ruined Laurel's journey by simply being a better fit than Laurel. 

[catrox14]

 I could totally see them showing Laurel being trained by Nyssa as a condensed time thing. She did seem to be able to handle Ollie's bow with little difficulty (/hork) in the penultimate episode of s2 as unbelievable as that was.  And I could see that somehow we find out that Laurel just needed the right motivation(Sara's death) and someone to believe in her (Quentin) for her to discover that she had it in her all along and that she will be the specialist special fast learner that ever learned.

 

Mind you, I will barf, roll my eyes and throw my remote at the TV, but that would not surprise me in the least.  What would surprise me is them killing off Laurel.

[poetgirl925]

I don't think they'll kill off Laurel, but I'll be surprised if they find a way to keep both of them since the writers seem to love the 'fridged character fuels hero/revenge path' trope. They really did mess up having Sara be the first BC though. They should have just had her being a former assassin beating people up in the Glades or another comic character. I never questioned Laurel being BC until they showed me Sara and now I hate the idea. I think they'll probably follow comic canon on this point, but they have to also be concerned with viewers who don't care about canon, so they created a problem for themselves. If Sara dies I have a feeling there will be backlash against Laurel, whether it's fair or not. However, if she dies I feel like it won't be until the middle of the season at earliest. I'm trying to imagine what, besides Sara's death, would make Laurel want to walk Sara's path and I can't think of anything, really.

[Angel12d]

If Quentin is in a scene with Laurel and Nyssa, maybe Sara has gone missing? It would explain her absence from the scene and might also hint at her going down a darker path. Maybe Nyssa contacts Laurel and Quentin because she can't find Sara or vice versa. 

[TanyaKay]

Here's the scene I envision. Quentin and Laurel are at one of their homes when there is a knock on the door. Laurel answers it and Quentin sees her grab her neck and fall down. Nyssa and Sara come in. He doesn't react, except to ask if they want coffee. They step over Laurel.

 

Oh boy, this scene writes itself.

You know what? I want Nyssa to randomly shoot people with tranq darts because it is badass. I also want her to gift Felicity with a tanrq gun just because she liked her and she thought it was an appropriate gift.