Spoiler Discussion Thread

[insomniadreams88]

8 minutes ago, sadfangirl said:

What if they're going to Russia to help prove Digg is innocent. That's a valid reason, in my opinion, for the team to go....

They might have traced the missing nukes there (or Anatoli has tipped them off).

That would work for me.

I'm fine with them going to Russia for any reason except Susan needs help/protection. I don't want Oliver to enlist the help of the entire team to help the reporter he shouldn't be dating. 

But since it looks like Diggle is going, they'll have to have proven his innocence beforehand. If he's in prison, I doubt they'd give him a day pass to leave to go to another country. They could prove his innocence without catching the real bad guys and then have everything tie to Russia in 512. 

[tv echo]

I read the fan theory that Oliver will bring Felicity back into the light (or harness her light) this season. However, what if - like the 100th episode Lauriver wedding - what actually happens in this back half is that Oliver brings Tina into the light. We know that Tina "has a problem" with Oliver and his vigilante team. Maybe it's because she thinks vigilantes should work alone or maybe it's because she's more like S1 Oliver - all kill, all the time. Maybe she's Helena 2.0 (or Sara 2.0). We know Tina also had her "island" and forms a "connection" with Oliver.  He was unsuccessful in converting Helena, so maybe he'll be successful in converting Tina. I mean, this season really has been a F.U. to Olicity fans. So why not take one more desired/expected Olicity storyline and give it to someone else.

Edited January 15, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Interesting that the Arrow writers chose to tweet this...

(Collider article was previously posted.)

[Velocity23]

How much converting will he have to do if she is part of team by 5x12 or 5x13. And Oliver is going all in with the reporter at that time.  And everybody has an "island" on Arrow. 

Edited January 15, 2017 by Velocity23

[statsgirl]

Hasn't Oliver brought other people into the light before?  Roy said something about Oliver saving him, there was some saving of Sara by giving her hope at the end of s2 just before they switched to Laurel being the one to save Sara.  He did try and failed to save Helena but I doubt Tina is so bad as to be trying to kill her own father.

I don't put much faith into the theory of Oliver bringing "dark Felicity" into the light.  For one thing, she won't be going that dark according to MG, but mostly because I don't see Oliver as having all that much light himself this season.  This is robo Bratva Oliver, past and present, who is back to killing and who starts an "all in" relationship with a reporter he shouldn't be anywhere near because he's too stupid to protect himself and those he cares about.  I suspect that, as usual, Felicity will save herself.

I'm trying not to read too much into retweeting the Collider article.  It's a slow news time.....

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I suspect that, as usual, Felicity will save herself.

I'm trying not to read too much into retweeting the Collider article.  It's a slow news time.....

Me too. I also suspect/fear that Felicity's arc will be wrapping up just as Prometheus makes some big move/something else happens and any fallout/aftermath is pushed aside to deal with that. We'll get a conversation or two, but since they don't want to make Felicity too dark, I don't think we'll be getting anything that necessitates a "yellow crayon" moment like on Buffy or someone else bringing her back into the light. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they use OTA to promote 5B, but promotion (articles RTed, even focus in episode descriptions) doesn't mean it's what we'll see on-screen. 

[wonderwall]

45 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

don't put much faith into the theory of Oliver bringing "dark Felicity" into the light.

Well it's less of a theory and more of a hope. In the end it all depends on what you think is 'too dark'. Imo I think Felicity will be dark enough to make morally questionable decisions but not be dark enough to kill people in the process regardless of whether they're bad or not... 

And for Felicity, imo, any sort of darkness she faces she'll need to be brought back from before she actually becomes too dark to the point where she won't be able to forgive her own actions. 

[Chaser]

Arrow oversells everything. I highly doubt this arc will be anything different. I don't see a fully fleshed arc coming for Felicity and Olicity. I see moments were we have to infer show intent and then a couple scenes and then it's wrapped up (cause that's the show). I do think their intent is for Oliver to be there in the end Felicity, help her get her 'light' back to show Olivers growth and get Olicity back together but I'm pretty sure it's only going to be like one scene. 

[Guest]

You know, I'm still a bit confused about what SA said about Susan a while ago. Something along the lines of it not being an Isabel 2.0 situation and that maybe Susan would learn something? I guess he means that while yes, she is digging into his past for a story, she won't release the info because of their "genuine feelings." But the thing is, IDGAF about Susan and her learning stuff. If it does go that way, what does Oliver learn from this? That he was right to ignore everyone's warnings and that it was okay to ignore how his girlfriend treated his sister, simply because she caught a case of the feels and developed a conscience? Eh. I side eye this whole thing. 

As for Felicity, I think the theory of Oliver bringing her into the light or showing her there's another way is a bit of a stretch but I understanding hoping for it. I'd love for Oliver to be there for Felicity in her darkest moments. It'd be nice if she's given the pep talk for once. Hell, I'd love it if Diggle was there for her tbh. I'd take anything OTA at this point.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Guest

[Belinea]

What bothers me more than all those masks and all those convoluted storylines is the fact that nobody seems to be friends anymore. Even in S2 Oliver cared about Diggle and Felicity. He helped Diggle save Lyla, no questions asked. He had conversations with Felicity that were personal. Nowadays everyone's a stranger that happens to work together. At least that what it feels like to me. And the writers will probably use BC 3.0 to give themselves and Oliver something new to play with. 

[statsgirl]

From the collider article:

Quote

Just how dark is Felicity going to get? If you love the character for her levity, don’t get too worried, Guggenheim promised they only planned to take it to a place that’s “appropriate for the character.”

This is something I was talking to the writers about in the writers’ room — Felicity is a wonderful character because she brings some light into the show. So it’s a darker — it’s an edgier story for Felicity, but at the same time, it’s still Felicity. You want to keep the character.

I'm thinking she's not going to go so dark as she needs someone else to pull her into the light.  Sorry, Olicity fans- who-were-hoping-he-would-save-her.  But maybe there will be one speech about how she brought light into his life and he doesn't want her to lose her own light.

 

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

But the thing is, IDGAF about Susan and her learning stuff. If it does go that way, what does Oliver learn from this? That he was right to ignore everyone's warnings and that it was okay to ignore how his girlfriend treated his sister, simply because she caught a case of the feels and developed a conscience? Eh. I side eye this whole thing. 

That is exactly why I hope that "this isn't going to be like Isabel" is because Oliver got smarter and didn't trust the leggy brunette, not because she sees the light because of his magic penis.  But this show....

[wonderwall]

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I'm thinking she's not going to go so dark as she needs someone else to pull her into the light.  Sorry, Olicity fans- who-were-hoping-he-would-save-her.  But maybe there will be one speech about how she brought light into his life and he doesn't want her to lose her own light.

OK? No need to be so condescending. Literally no one was asking for him to save her like she's some damsel, they wanted him to help her just like Felicity helped him so many times. The reciprocity would be appreciated. 

Anyways people can hope what they want... We just have to wait and see what happens. 

[bijoux]

We've talked recently how there is no real confirmation that DA Chase and the Vigilante are the same person although everything makes it seem so. Josh Segarra posting this is another thing in the positive column.

 

[Cleanqueen]

If neither Oliver nor Diggle have a conversation with Felicity about her morally questionable tactics then why the heck are they writing this story. The whole point of writing her dark is to show how shes been impacted by everything around her but she needs to be reminded that there is a light inside of her just like she has reminded EVERY single hero wannabe how they all have light inside them. If you say OTA is the heart of the show then ensure that OTA is the ones who are there for each other when things like this happen.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Cleanqueen

[way2interested]

15 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

If neither Oliver nor Diggle have a conversation with Felicity about her morally questionable tactics then why the heck are they writing this story. The whole point of her writing her dark is to show how shes been impacted by everything around her but she needs to be reminded that there is a light inside of her just like she has reminded EVERY single hero wannabe how they all have light inside them. If you say OTA is the heart of the show then ensure that OTA is the ones who are there for each other when things like this happen.

Agreed. The only way Felicity's actions are considered morally questionable is that another main character in the narrative has to recognize and acknowledge it on-screen. Could it be one of the newbies? Sure, but they don't have as much narrative/emotional power in the story (i.e. if Felicity said 2 + 2 = 5 and a newbie says otherwise, despite being wrong I'm more inclined to believe Felicity because we've known her much longer). A character with actual weight in the narrative or in Felicity's life has to acknowledge the change otherwise this subplot has no plot/arc/drama at all and there would be no use to acknowledge it as an upcoming story point so many times.

Whether it be as potentially romantic with Oliver as one may want or as potentially supportive friendship with Diggle as one may want or as dramatic or narrative significant for Felicity as one may want is up in the air (and up to personal interpretation) until it happens. 

[wonderwall]

51 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

If neither Oliver nor Diggle have a conversation with Felicity about her morally questionable tactics then why the heck are they writing this story. The whole point of her writing her dark is to show how shes been impacted by everything around her but she needs to be reminded that there is a light inside of her just like she has reminded EVERY single hero wannabe how they all have light inside them. If you say OTA is the heart of the show then ensure that OTA is the ones who are there for each other when things like this happen.

With these writers who knows... But I remain hopeful that one or both help her out. Just... hoping for the best, expecting the worst right now haha

So far - the Felicity arc seems promising. I hear episodes 12 and 14 are BIG Felicity episodes and episode 15 may be an Olicity one (what with how Stephen talked about them and how he singled out episode 15 (also isn't cupid in episode 15?))...  So at least we get a minimum of 3 episodes dedicated to her arc haha

Edited January 15, 2017 by wonderwall

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think Felicity's actions can be viewed are questionable even without a main character acknowledging it..at least at the beginning..for example let's say she frees and teams up with villains to hunt Prometheus down or she does something reckless that puts herself or others in danger and keeps all of it from the team we don't need someone to tell us it's questionable, they show it..maybe one of the villains can make a quip about how things have changed if Felicity is working with them. This is just an example to be clear, I have no idea what they are going to do with her.

Sooner or later the team has to find out of course but if the writers still want to keep her "light" I'm not expecting something very dramatic where her friends have to bring her back into the light.

I'd love if they wrote a really dark arc but if the writers don't want to, I hope fic writers will haha

[statsgirl]

58 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

If neither Oliver nor Diggle have a conversation with Felicity about her morally questionable tactics then why the heck are they writing this story.

There's Quentin, who went dark himself last season and now is drinking, who could talk to her. Or Thea, who doesn't have much else to do and who saw what Felicity was like before.  Or Rory because he and Felicity talked about helping each other through Havenrock when Rory first agreed to join.

They could be writing the story just because it's something different to do with Felicity.  Diggle went even darker when he killed Andy but as far as I can see, he's going to get himself out of it without either Oliver or Felicity.

[Chaser]

They've circled back to OTA in every season, regardless of who they've added to the Team. I don't anticipate this one being different.

[tangerine95]

I don't expect it to be some huge thing where Oliver saves Felicity from her own darkness or whatever but I'd be suprised if they're not given at least a conversation about it. Especially since we know Felicity is hiding something from Oliver while going through her dark storyline so that will come out and lead to wherever it does but if they bothered to set that up,it's probably going somewhere. Imo it's less likely that Digg talks to her with how that friendship has been ignored. 

[way2interested]

23 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

With these writers who knows... But I remain hopeful that one or both help her out. Just... hoping for the best, expecting the worst right now haha

So far - the Felicity arc seems promising. I hear episodes 12 and 14 are BIG Felicity episodes and episode 15 may be an Olicity one (what with how Stephen talked about them and how he singled out episode 15 (also isn't cupid in episode 15?))...  So at least we get a minimum of 3 episodes dedicated to her arc haha

Just curious, where are you getting 512 from? I get 514 and 515, but the only thing I've got about Felicity for 512 is that she's on the Russia trip, or are you referring to BFS's tweet about it?

Although, idk, going by speculation, I'd say that 510-511 (possibly letting Black Siren go on purpose, going up against whoever the unknown adversary is)might actually in fact be set-up like BFS said (along with 512, if then he's to be believed), so then 3 episode set-up, then 3 episode arc about it? Sign me up for excited too (also for being excited about finding a new writer to semi-believe in)! 

[statsgirl]

They always circle back to OTA for the end of a season, especially if the focus has been on other characters, because OTA are their money players and they want viewers to come back next season.

It's possible that it will be Oliver or Diggle who pulls Felicity out of her darkness.  I think Felicity's dark arc will be over long before May sweeps.  There will probably be a conversation between Oliver and Felicity about it afterwards because it's too good to miss the chance.

[Chaser]

I didn't realize it was said that Felicity going after Prometheus would carry thru the rest of the season. I had kind of thought that she would make one big move that would not work, get the Teams attention and then it would be business as usual. That plus MG saying they were positioning her for a key role makes me think this does go all the way to the actual takedown at the end of the season.

I also didn't realize Matt M. had stressed it was what was happening with Oliver in regards to Prometheus that would have the biggest impact on Felicitys turn. 

Re reading the comments SA made about BC is interesting. A couple things. He acknowledged the importance of BC in the GA comic (distinguishing from her importance in the show) and he didn't talk about the BC and GA relationship. It was 'this is a character that is big in the comics' not 'this is a character that means so much to GA and that relationship is so important.'

[Trisha]

57 minutes ago, tv echo said:

per WM, Felicity “is going to meet some people who are both a bit tied to her past but also very much tied to this new future she’s contemplating... and that’s going to draw her away from the team and lead her to do some things that are pretty morally questionable.”

I've always focused on the "morally questionable" part of WM's quote and kind of missed the "new future she's contemplating" part. That sounds like more that just taking down Prometheus. I'd love for it to be about focusing on distributing the back chip or starting Smoak Tech (though I don't know why she'd need to go dark for that).

[Chaser]

We've known about previous adversaries going against Felicity right? Cooper, Bee Lady and Calculator all had casting announcements at least. Makes me more curious.

It is slim pickings on Thea, Lance and Diggle. It's a good thing Oliver is going to spend a lot of time as Mayor or Thea and Lance would get nothing. Diggles three things regarding his legacy sounds a little weak and not that interesting - with the exception of bring Lyla back to the TV screens. I hope the dynamic with Chase is interesting. 

I know I'm reading with confirmation bias but everything Tina related just sounds like she's a mask, a boob. A snowflake one because there is no reason they should be recruiting and trusting her so fast (as far as we know) but just a mask nonetheless. I don't think she is going to be a Sara, I think she is going to be a Thea/Laurel. Slap a mask, make her a part of the Team. Call it good.

[Cleanqueen]

I am laughing so hard at David's comments about the so called outrage over Canary's death (still refuses to call her BC). The first sentences are word for word response he gave last year after her death, seems like he had to memorize that in front of the mirror to convince himself.

And other than people wanting a Black Canary on the show there really wasn't that much outrage over LL dying. We'll see yet again how easily that title can be passed down to anybody.

[Chaser]

Unpopular opinion, but I'm not so interested in Smoak Tech. I think it makes sense and would be great for the character but it isn't something I want to watch a lot of. I want something different.

[Velocity23]

[Chaser]

Is Monday still flashback day?

[Velocity23]

I thought Stephen has Mondays off to spend time with his family. 

[bijoux]

That's what he said about his schedule this year, yes.

[Chaser]

Per Lemon, CP was filming Friday and is back for 5x16. Sigh. I really don't want them to do the Ray timeline and drag it out till ep20. 

[apinknightmare]

I don't mind her hanging around as long as: 

a) she's already been found out and 

b) Oliver broke up with her as soon as he found her out

If she hasn't been exposed by 16, then WTF? And if Oliver stays with her after, then...yikes.

[statsgirl]

At least with Ray, there was the chance of a decent relationship for Felicity. Does anyone believe this could be a lasting relationship for Oliver?

Oh well, the longer Susan stays, the less chance Oliver will get Tina for a LI this season.

[Starfish35]

Lol.  Silver linings, silver linings.  

But yes, I thought Oliver/Susan would be done by 5.16.  That's surprising.

[Mellowyellow]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

At least with Ray, there was the chance of a decent relationship for Felicity. Does anyone believe this could be a lasting relationship for Oliver?

Oh well, the longer Susan stays, the less chance Oliver will get Tina for a LI this season.

Unless they are using Oliver/Susan to drag out Oliver/Tina

I'm in a nasty bitter mood today due to heatwave!

[ComicFan777]

Who knows...maybe finding out about what she's been up to spurs him into jumping "all in" to the relationship.
This is the guy who loved Felicity all the more for drugging him...I'd like to think it was just Felicity he found endearing, but maybe it's just his thing.

Edited January 17, 2017 by ComicFan777

[insomniadreams88]

Ugh, please don't tell me Oliver's going to be with Susan until 516. Please tell me that relationship ends after Oliver finds out she's looking into him. If it doesn't ... I'm going to be convinced that the show doesn't want me to root for Oliver.

Also, the longer that relationship lasts, the more time we're probably going to see Oliver juggling things - mayor, GA, relationship. No wonder Felicity's going to be looking elsewhere to take down Prometheus. When exactly would he be able to focus on Prometheus like he should? 

Just now, statsgirl said:

At least with Ray, there was the chance of a decent relationship for Felicity. Does anyone believe this could be a lasting relationship for Oliver?

Oh well, the longer Susan stays, the less chance Oliver will get Tina for a LI this season.

Agree with both these points. And if Oliver thinks that Susan can be a lasting relationship for him? Seriously? 

I will say this: If Oliver stupidly thinks about telling Susan he's GA, I hope everyone kicks him off the team. But how long can a relationship last for Oliver with someone who doesn't know? Is he just going to keep making excuses? Pretend to be dealing with mayoral business? He should remember that his security detail will tell her where he is at all times. 

I still want Susan's storyline to end with Thea delivering on her promise/threat and her unable to even write a blog. Come on, Arrow. Don't let me down. 

[tangerine95]

I wouldn't be suprised if they are together even after he finds out she investigated him tho I do hope that doesn't happen. But even in interviews they kinda try to make it look less shady, like saying that's her job but she does care about Oliver so I can see them having Oliver ignore it too. But she also might still be there after a break up, Ray was and Sara came back too, Helena as well so who knows. I'll be suprised if they're still together beyond 4.15, they usually do break ups or hook ups with temps around then and I think 5.09 already counts as the start of the relationship for them.

Edited January 17, 2017 by tangerine95

[way2interested]

I wonder if her investigating him actually doesn't come out in 512 (as in maybe 512 is just Oliver and the team dealing with a Bratva thing by going directly to Russia) and might be revealed in 515 instead. It's still kind of annoying because it would be the audience knowing something that Oliver doesn't for 10 episodes, but it would at least explain why she's still around.

[Chaser]

I assumed CP would be exposed in ep12 but that doesn't leave time for "all in" - unless that is all offscreen. I guess they could hold off on the reveal until 14/15 and put it into Sweeps. 

I honestly do think Oliver is going to find out and not break up with her. Bright side would be he decides to use that knowledge and play her, realistic side says he will probably be a moron.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I honestly do think Oliver is going to find out and not break up with her. Bright side would be he decides to use that knowledge and play her, realistic side says he will probably be a moron.

Yeah, I think he's gonna go full moron.

[way2interested]

Or Susan could end up telling Oliver in 515 and apologize or whatever because he's such a good guy now and then they decide to go "all in" for the end of sweeps for realsies (aka until 520-ish).

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, way2interested said:

I wonder if her investigating him actually doesn't come out in 512 (as in maybe 512 is just Oliver and the team dealing with a Bratva thing by going directly to Russia) and might be revealed in 515 instead. It's still kind of annoying because it would be the audience knowing something that Oliver doesn't for 10 episodes, but it would at least explain why she's still around.

Could be. I have a feeling that 512 is going to see Oliver and Susan in bed together, her asking about his Bratva tattoo, leading into the flashback of him getting it. Maybe that's Susan's only scene in 512? Or maybe we'll get scenes with her bookending the episode, kind of like in 509 - the holiday party date/her apartment. It can serve as a reminder of her investigating him like the Russian vodka ... only he doesn't find out until 515? 516 is the fallout maybe?

At least then the whole team would be going to Russia for something Prometheus-related maybe? And then it would at least make sense for Tina to go with them even though she just joined the team. 

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I honestly do think Oliver is going to find out and not break up with her. Bright side would be he decides to use that knowledge and play her, realistic side says he will probably be a moron.

I honestly want to know why the writers think this relationship is a good idea. Why they think writing Oliver this stupid is a good idea. (Though I do wonder if any of this storyline has to do with CP's availability with her work on Suits? Maybe they stretched it out because of that?)

I really don't feel like seeing Oliver open up to Susan about his past when there's still stuff he hasn't told Felicity or Diggle and he's known them for years or Thea and she's his sister.

Speaking of Thea, please let her have something else to do in 5B then continue to point out dating Susan is a bad idea. But the longer CP is around, the more I fear that will be the case.

[insomniadreams88]

Hey, maybe 515 ends with whatever happens with the limo, Susan gets hurt, and 516 will see Oliver staying by her side at the hospital. (Blame the conversation over in Heartaches from earlier for this post.) 

[Chaser]

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Hey, maybe 515 ends with whatever happens with the limo, Susan gets hurt, and 516 will see Oliver staying by her side at the hospital. (Blame the conversation over in Heartaches from earlier for this post.) 

.........I ... Can't. 

NO

[calliope1975]

Once they said "all in," I kind of figured this would last until the end of the season. Maybe beyond. Sigh. Why must you hurt me, Show?!

This is going to be me at PaleyFest. EBR and/or DR get the "you're cool" if they are in attendance. 

[way2interested]

25 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

 Or maybe we'll get scenes with her bookending the episode, kind of like in 509 - the holiday party date/her apartment. It can serve as a reminder of her investigating him like the Russian vodka ... only he doesn't find out until 515? 516 is the fallout maybe?

I'm thinking exactly that. 512 will be a bookend appearance for her again (beginning: Hey, remember that they're dating? You may have forgotten after an episode with Laurel and an episode that has flashback Oliver with Talia and present Oliver with a group searching for an attractive new member of their team. ending: Hey, remember that she still has a separate subplot going on that hasn't been revealed yet?). Although I'm wondering if the ending reminder would actually instead show her being doubtful/guilty about investigating him or deciding to not continue (per SA's kind-of phrasing of it).

25 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

At least then the whole team would be going to Russia for something Prometheus-related maybe? And then it would at least make sense for Tina to go with them even though she just joined the team. 

Honestly, I'm thinking that Russia doesn't have anything to do with Prometheus and might just be Bratva/Star City related. Like, they have to confront something related to the Bratva in Russia to get them out of Star City, and they find out about through Oliver's role as mayor. Then, if Susan finds out about it, then it would be more fodder for her "choice" about whether to continue her investigation or not (well, he looks like he has ties to the Russian mob...but he also stopped mobsters to protect the city and is actually a nice guy that I'm dating). Plus, to me, it would make more sense to convince Tina to come with them if the mission is to help the city instead of chasing info concerning a guy who has a crazy vendetta against the leader of the team you just joined. 

Edited January 17, 2017 by way2interested

[Mellowyellow]

Susan is a ship stall but the question is whether she's there to stall Olicity or Oliver/Tina.

I wonder if the route is Oliver/Tina whether they will throw in a viable LI for Felicity in the later seasons (say S7).

[insomniadreams88]

9 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Susan is a ship stall but the question is whether she's there to stall Olicity or Oliver/Tina.

I wonder if the route is Oliver/Tina whether they will throw in a viable LI for Felicity in the later seasons (say S7).

If Tina's smart, I don't see how anything she's going to see of Oliver (assuming he doesn't suddenly regain some brain cells in the next couple of episodes, and with Susan around until 516, that's doubtful) would make him look like a good LI choice. Then again, he has to say something good enough to get her to Star City (unless it's just the promise to help her with her past and Carlos?), so... 

ETA: They'd probably keep Felicity single in hopes of keeping Olicity shippers around. Or have her casually date. Or give her a BF and have him die.

Edited January 17, 2017 by insomniadreams88