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Spoiler Discussion Thread


Morrigan2575
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I can't decide whether to tune out for a while or ride out this whole miserable story line of Olicity apart. I really liked @quarks' take on the 505 scenes and how similar they were to 210. But then I remember the rage I felt at the end of 213, and I honestly don't want to see anything like that ever again. Even now after all these years I want to smack Oliver. I appreciate that they're not showing Felicity/Mayo sex scenes, but I've a sneaking suspicion I'm not going to be so lucky with Oliver and the reporter. 

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6 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I can't decide whether to tune out for a while or ride out this whole miserable story line of Olicity apart. I really liked @quarks' take on the 505 scenes and how similar they were to 210. But then I remember the rage I felt at the end of 213, and I honestly don't want to see anything like that ever again. Even now after all these years I want to smack Oliver. I appreciate that they're not showing Felicity/Mayo sex scenes, but I've a sneaking suspicion I'm not going to be so lucky with Oliver and the reporter. 

Oh, we're going to (probably) have to watch Oliver and the reporter and then Oliver with Tina too, the latter likely in the bunker, maybe even with Felicity's computers in the background. I'm prepared for it, but I will hate it the entire time. 

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Can we move any Green Arrow and Black Canary romance talk to the Hopes & Fears thread? Pretty please.

There is no spoiler to support it. The only confirmed LI for Oliver is Reporter.

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I'm here watching at least through the winter finale.  At least it's pretty well confirmed it's a Tina free zone til then.

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

maybe even with Felicity's computers in the background. I'm prepared for it, but I will hate it the entire time. 

Well that's an unpleasant picture you just planted.  I am NOT prepared.  :o 

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2 hours ago, Chaser said:

Can we move any Green Arrow and Black Canary romance talk to the Hopes & Fears thread? Pretty please.

There is no spoiler to support it. The only confirmed LI for Oliver is Reporter.

Isn't Tina coming on the show a spoiler though?

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Tina is a spoiler. Tina becoming BC and Oliver's LI, that's just speculation. 

IMO Laurel's last words set up a BC of some sort so airing your concerns about a return to GA and BC can be appropriate for the Hopes & Fears thread. We don't have a spoiler stating Tina-is-BC-is-Oliver's LI. We have "Comics" and "CW".

I don't mean to say that Tina couldn't be or that it's crazy to think it could happen, but it's not an actual spoiler.

Sigh. I'm sorry, this conversation is just frustrating me. It keeps going in circles. 

Edited by Chaser
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You aren't allowed to bring up Tina (I did say she is a spoiler), I just mean you can talk GA and a new BC in Hopes and Fears. Based off of your genuine terror or Laurel's last words and the lack of anything concrete.

I apologize if it sounds like I'm trying to patrol the board. Like I said, it's frustration talking.

Edited by Chaser
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59 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Isn't Tina coming on the show a spoiler though?

I think the character and her possibly becoming BC and Oliver's love interest fall under this thread so I think we should feel free to discuss it.

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Will Tina already have a mask? It's a masksposion on this show! 

Re: the crossover extravaganza - why does the thought of 20 masks in an airplane hanger make my eyeballs roll out of their sockets yet the same type of scene in Civil War still fills me with glee? Was it because of Black Panther? Probably. 

I loved, loved, loved the line up when they fought the Mirakuru'd with Sara, Nyssa, et. al., but that picture with the boobs all lined up just ups my level of apathy. Why was 5 minutes of Nyssa's introduction so memorable, but 5 episodes of the boobs is boring and dull, and I don't care about any of them? 

These are my ponderings on a Saturday night.

ETA: I realized how cranky that sounds, and this is not the bitterness thread. I hope Tina is in the mold of Sara - an effective fighter who can hold her own and actually has some type of agency. 

Edited by calliope1975
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I saw the breakdown of screen time for 505 in the episode thread (I don't know how to quote it to bring it over to this thread) and Paul Blackthorne only appeared for 1:44 and it got me thinking, what is Lance's story this season? 

I know he has the daddy/replacement daughter story with Thea and has been named Deputy Mayor but beyond that what else is he doing? For that matter, what is Thea doing besides getting another daughter story and covering for Oliver?  We have interview after interview about plots for recurring characters but the regular characters (outside of Oliver) are a mystery.  

Edited by kes0704
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2 hours ago, Chaser said:

You aren't allowed to bring up Tina (I did say she is a spoiler), I just mean you can talk GA and a new BC in Hopes and Fears. Based off of your genuine terror or Laurel's last words and the lack of anything concrete.

I apologize if it sounds like I'm trying to patrol the board. Like I said, it's frustration talking.

haha I understand your frustration! Sorry!

I read a post by quarks and I'm like "La di da di da it's all good" and then I read another well written post by someone less optimistic and I am like "OMG it's DOOMED! DOOMED" *cue hysterics because I am a weak sheep*

On another note:

Is Tina a regular or guest star?

How do they determine who gets employed as a regular?

Is Felicity in all 4 of the Crossovers or only on the Arrow and Flash eps? I assume she's not on the Supergirl ep? 

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2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Is Tina a regular or guest star?

How do they determine who gets employed as a regular?

For now she's a recurring character. All recurring characters are billed as guest stars. What kind of guest star is something negotiated. "Special guest star" is different than just "guest star" or "also starring".

Regular characters usually start the season already billed as regulars, and the determination is made by the studio/network/production company, along with negotiations with the actor's management. If someone recurring becomes a regular, that usually happens the following season.

1 hour ago, looptab said:

Since it's  question time, which  episode is the one with the old Arrow costume, 510 or 509? What is the speculation on why he wears that again, flashback or something else? :)

509. The spec was that it was flashbacks to S1 so we get Prometheus' origin story.

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5 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

509. The spec was that it was flashbacks to S1 so we get Prometheus' origin story.

 I'm so interested this year that I can't even get the spoilers straight,haha. I asked because I saw a video among my Youtube suggestions - which I didn't watch - that speculated the costume was due to a FP timeline reset, and while I was certain that that's  never going to be the case, I couldn't remember what we came up with in here. Thank you :)

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7 minutes ago, looptab said:

 I'm so interested this year that I can't even get the spoilers straight,haha. I asked because I saw a video among my Youtube suggestions - which I didn't watch - that speculated the costume was due to a FP timeline reset, and while I was certain that that's  never going to be the case, I couldn't remember what we came up with in here. Thank you :)

At this point, imo any spec that makes Flashpoint more complex than "X changed because it was easily changeable and doesn't affect the storyline in anyway" is bogus.

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7 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

At this point, imo any spec that makes Flashpoint more complex than "X changed because it was easily changeable and doesn't affect the storyline in anyway" is bogus.

That video had Laurel as BC in the forefront and Oliver as Arrow in the background as still image, that alone spelled delusion for me, haha.

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Tina being the new BC and Oliver's new love interest is speculation - but it's reasonable speculation extrapolated from spoilers...

NuCanary:

Quote

-- On Laurel's controversial death and whether someone else will take up the mantle of BC, WM: "I can't say too much about that... I can say with confidence that, in Season 5, our decision will make more sense...even to the fans who were really vehemently opposed to it." (Scan of Arrow page from July 19, 2016 TV Guide Comic-Con Special issue, page 40 of Spoilers thread)
-- On how much Oliver's vow to Laurel to find a new Black Canary is going to be weighing on his mind this season, MG: "Forefront in his mind is this notion of recruiting this new team, and as the season progresses, eventually it will turn Oliver’s attention towards the specificity of that promise of a new Black Canary, and we’ll have to see what happens." (Oct. 12, 2016 Mashable article, page 184 of Starling City Times thread)
-- On Nov. 1, 2016, papp tweeted: "#Arrow started the day shooting interior scenes in North Vancouver today with #Olicity  @WhatsFilming" and "#Olicity was searching for a new #blackcanary today onset of #arrow ... What does that mean exactly lol ?? More questions than answers lol" and "#Arrow wrapped shooting with exteriors at Vancouver dry dock with #Olicity and #laurel , ok seriously wtf does this mean ??!!" and "A full day of shooting #Arrow with #Olicity and #Laurel ... A mix of interior and exterior shooting , and no I do not have pics or graphs." (kingscourtgraph tweets, page 48 of Spoilers thread)
-- On Nov. 1, 2016, papp tweeted: "It's not Sara, Laurel or Evelyn. That's all I'll say on the topic for now (partly because that's all I know too)#BlackCanary #Arrow." (canadagraphs tweet, page 48 of Spoilers thread)

Tina:

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-- In September 2016, Rapaport/Baldasare Casting announced casting call for principal, recurring guest star role of "Tina" in 511, with series regular option. It started accepting self-taped, video auditions, worldwide it seems for an actress, 20s-30s, to fill the role. (Oct. 1, 2016 Auditionsfree article, page 46 of Spoilers thread, ClaimFame article, page 476 of Social Media thread, and CastItTalent webpage in dtissagirl post, page 1163 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Leaked "Tina" casting sides: "Scene 1: Rando alley. Tina fools a perp into thinking she's fragile, kicks his ass. Green Arrow observes, asks her to join the team again [the directions note this isn't the first time they met], Tina tells GA she doesn't like him, she doesn't want him as her team leader, it's super adversarial. Then he mentions some dude from her past and that the team can help her find him, and she starts to crack. 'Show me something you can find that the FBI didn't, and I'll think about joining your team,' or something like that... Scene 2: at the Arrow bunker. Tina is pounding the gym bag, Oliver arrives. She's frustrated about some Prometheus thing, he is apparently 'mr. disappearing act.' Oliver says Felicity and Curtis will find a location. She's woe-ing about her past as a Marine, and that being good enough is not enough, it's pretty much a self-actualization video script. And then Oliver tells her she's the best fighter he's ever seen, and it becomes flirty. They almost kiss, but Oliver's phone beeps with a location... Actual direction notes of this beat: 'They look at each other. Sexual tension palpable. Are we finally going to get an Oliver/Tina kiss? The tension broken by: PING! Oliver looks at his phone.'" (bijoux and dtissagirl posts, page 1137 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- On Sep. 20, 2016, MG tweeted: "Here's your occasional reminder that on Arrow and Legends we write FAKE SIDES because we know they're going to get leaked by casting sites." (MG tweet, page 1138 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Juliana Harkavy was announced to have a recurring role as Tina Boland, a detective formerly of Central City. Boland is brash yet tactful, tough, speaks her mind, and is not the easiest person to impress. She also has a problem with vigilantes like Green Arrow and his new team of recruits: Wild Dog, Artemis, Curtis Holt and Ragman. Harkavy’s character will join in the back half of the season. (Nov. 1, 2016 Variety article, page 47 of Spoilers thread)
-- SA: "Tina is a character that the team tracks down, who is operating in another city. And, uh, that happens once we're back from our break, sort of, 510, 511 time. And, um, I think she could be a really - I think she could be a really cool character." (Nov. 3, 2016 Seat42F video of SA interview, page 48 of Spoilers thread)
-- On Nov. 4, 2016, JBam tweeted: "@JulianaHarkavy Very.....very.....excellent day my friend. You should be proud." Juliana Harkavy tweeted: "Best day at the office ever ??." (JBam and JHarkovy tweets, page 48 of Spoilers thread)

(NOTE: 511 shoot dates are listed as November 2-14, 2016.)

Yes, I know the casting sides are fake, but they could've been used to test the chemistry between the actors and it's possible there's a similarly-vibed scene in the actual script.  

As for speculation that Tina is Wild Dog's love interest instead, regardless of the actors' actual ages, the character of Wild Dog is coming across as younger than Oliver, while this new actress, Juliana Harkavy, looks more mature.  Also, the spoilers just scream S2's Sara/Canary story - with the team tracking down a strange woman, who turns out to be a fighter.

Edited by tv echo
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ETA: I realized how cranky that sounds, and this is not the bitterness thread. I hope Tina is in the mold of Sara - an effective fighter who can hold her own and actually has some type of agency. 

You can be sure Tina (anyone else picture the Llama from Napoleon Dynamite every time you type Tina? Can I just call her the Llama?) will be a super duper good fighter, like the best ever! And Agency?  She'll have so much agency that she totes uproots her life and moves to the worst city in the country for "reasons"

From those of you that have seen this actress on Walking Dead, any chance the Llama (watch out, they spit) will turn out to be another Poppy?  #Ihope#blessed

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 On Nov. 1, 2016, papp tweeted: "#Arrow started the day shooting interior scenes in North Vancouver today with #Olicity  @WhatsFilming" and "#Olicity was searching for a new #blackcanary today onset of #arrow ... What does that mean exactly lol ?? More questions than answers lol" and "#Arrow wrapped shooting with exteriors at Vancouver dry dock with #Olicity and #laurel , ok seriously wtf does this mean ??!!" and "A full day of shooting #Arrow with #Olicity and #Laurel ... A mix of interior and exterior shooting , and no I do not have pics or graphs." (kingscourtgraph tweets, page 48 of Spoilers thread)
-- On Nov. 1, 2016, papp tweeted: "It's not Sara, Laurel or Evelyn. That's all I'll say on the topic for now (partly because that's all I know too)#BlackCanary #Arrow." (canadagraphs tweet, page 48 of Spoilers thread)

Quote

 

- SA: "Tina is a character that the team tracks down, who is operating in another city. 


 

I wonder if they hear reports of this woman operating out of another city and maybe see some vague image of her and somehow wonder if it is Laurel come back to life.  Why else would they bother tracking down another operator?  It's way too optimistic to think all the recruits washed out and they actually need a replacement mask.  

You know, I've come to regret the building of the new bunker.  The old set would never have allowed for this many people.  

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I never, ever thought I'd post a link to a Playboy article, but whatever (fyi, what I've quoted below is all the info, so you don't need to visit the site) - break out the fishnets! ...

15 Reasons to Follow 'The Walking Dead' Actress Juliana Harkavy on Instagram
BY LISA BEEBE   November 5, 2016
http://www.playboy.com/galleries/reasons-to-follow-actress-juliana-harkavy-on-instagram/slide-9?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Native&utm_content=bunnies

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9/15
*  *  *
Juliana Harkavy played Alisha, a lesbian with an assault rifle, in Season Four of The Walking Dead. Now, she’s joining the cast of CW’s Arrow in a recurring role as detective Tina Boland. If you aren’t following her on Instagram, you’re missing out.

Edited by tv echo
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6 hours ago, kes0704 said:

I saw the breakdown of screen time for 505 in the episode thread (I don't know how to quote it to bring it over to this thread) and Paul Blackthorne only appeared for 1:44 and it got me thinking, what is Lance's story this season? 

I know he has the daddy/replacement daughter story with Thea and has been named Deputy Mayor but beyond that what else is he doing? For that matter, what is Thea doing besides getting another daughter story and covering for Oliver?  We have interview after interview about plots for recurring characters but the regular characters (outside of Oliver) are a mystery.  

In that 42F video posted on Thursday, SA said that Quentin still isn't completely on the wagon and another bad thing would happen for him to hit bottom before he could start on his way back out of it. I'm kind of bummed because I had hoped this relapse story had mostly happened off-screen, and was relieved that we weren't going to be spending more time on it. But anyway, that explains the line in the synopsis for 507 (?) about Thea fighting for Quentin or whatever. Something bad will happen and she will try to keep him sober or help in some other way, I'm guessing.

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4 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

Something bad will happen and she will try to keep him sober or help in some other way, I'm guessing.

I can't imagine what else could happen to him, since he's had his daughters die like 10 times, and he doesn't seem to have much of a life otherwise. I guess maybe a cop who was his BFF offscreen could get killed or something? Or maybe our good friend Susan Williams reports on something that further drags his name through the mud, IDK.

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1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Another thing I've realized this season, I absolutely don't give a you-know-what about Thea and Quentin anymore. Those are 2 more characters that just lift out of the narrative for me. 

I've realized that I only liked Thea when Roy was around. As for Lance, his scenes with Laurel were good but now I'm kind of tired of him, and I have no interest in him taking on Thea as his next daughter. 

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Why can't the team investigate reports of a super hot guy with a great ass fighting crime in Bludhaven? You know who I'd be all over Felicity being all over? Dick Grayson. I would like all the mentions of Bludhaven to pay off at some point. 

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2 hours ago, Soulfire said:

While Antonio's episodes (320, 406) are better known for having big Olicity moments, he also directed some pretty good action scenes (escape from Nanda Parbat, rescuing Ray). I'm guessing this is referring to something action-y.

Edited by lemotomato
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20 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

I loved, loved, loved the line up when they fought the Mirakuru'd with Sara, Nyssa, et. al., but that picture with the boobs all lined up just ups my level of apathy. Why was 5 minutes of Nyssa's introduction so memorable, but 5 episodes of the boobs is boring and dull, and I don't care about any of them?

Maybe because other than Blood, Nyssa was the only recurring character introduced in the present in 2b so there was set-up and an effect when she showed up. Also Katrina Law is a better actor than Rick G. or MM.

This season MG seems like a kid in a candy store, gathering up handfuls of new characters and saying "you get a mask, and you get a mask, and you get a mask" to every one., even the villain Prometheus.  Poor Mayo and Church must have felt left out.

When you're introducing that many new characters and still trying to balance the old ones, there's no time to deal with anything properly.

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2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

 

This season MG seems like a kid in a candy store, gathering up handfuls of new characters and saying "you get a mask, and you get a mask, and you get a mask" to every one., even the villain Prometheus.  Poor Mayo and Church must have felt left out.

When you're introducing that many new characters and still trying to balance the old ones, there's no time to deal with anything properly.

It's all a little puzzling to me since with maybe the exception of Curtis, these are such D list (or lower) bits of candy.  Wild dong is completely interchangeable with just about any guy fighting without powers, Rag Man is the oddest choice for a hero on show that this season was supposed to be grounded in reality (and he's mostly being sidelined for the Dong, the guy with the most mundane of all backstories)  Evelyn is also being ignored and even though she has a name from the comics, (Starling) for some reason they aren't even going to utilize it.  Which had they actually developed her as Artemis, I wouldn't have cared, but if one name is as good as another and the character is going to get zero story in becoming Artemis, why did they bother?  

Why are they bothering becomes a reoccurring question since most of the new characters are like that.  It's like all they want to collect are the names (and the masks) even while pretty much ignoring them.

Even with Prometheus.  That's a character that was a big deal in the Green Arrow's history.  Has crazy strong powers and destroys a huge amount of Star City and it pushed "Ollie" to cross that line and kill him.  Huge fallout.

 But our Oliver is already back to not only killing, but super casual about when he does or doesn't and who doesn't try to destroy Star City?  The story the show is telling about Oliver's past creating his enemy is actually kind of interesting, but I think it would be a lot more interesting if they didn't try to connect it to a totally unrelated comic book character.  It's like Prometheus is just a name they pulled from the hat.  

So why add all these newbies to get in the way of the characters the audience already cares about when very little is even being done with all of these masks?  What benefit are they actually getting?

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I think the problem is that the masks are WB dictates, as opposed to characters MG and his team really want to bring on. That's why they're having trouble incorporating them well. There's really no compelling reason whatsoever for the Green Arrow to create a whole new team (other than TPTB wanting the viewers to maybe consider buying Wild Dong's comic book).

Same deal with the extra love interests. There's no reason to bring a new one in considering how badly previous LIs have been received — I mean, a lot of fans actually liked Sara but that turned on a dime and the ratings plunged; Ray never got his solo spinoff; and no one could remember poor Poppy. What's the benefit of bringing new LIs in?

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4 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Same deal with the extra love interests. There's no reason to bring a new one in considering how badly previous LIs have been received — I mean, a lot of fans actually liked Sara but that turned on a dime and the ratings plunged; Ray never got his solo spinoff; and no one could remember poor Poppy. What's the benefit of bringing new LIs in?

I tend to think the LI thing is a writer/showrunner problem.  Partly left over misunderstanding of the Moonlighting Curse and partly because it's a tool, like a way to use plot to push characters in certain directions whether it's in character or not.  I tend to see it as a writers crutch.   

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1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

It's all a little puzzling to me since with maybe the exception of Curtis, these are such D list (or lower) bits of candy.  Wild dong is completely interchangeable with just about any guy fighting without powers, Rag Man is the oddest choice for a hero on show that this season was supposed to be grounded in reality (and he's mostly being sidelined for the Dong, the guy with the most mundane of all backstories)  Evelyn is also being ignored and even though she has a name from the comics, (Starling) for some reason they aren't even going to utilize it.  Which had they actually developed her as Artemis, I wouldn't have cared, but if one name is as good as another and the character is going to get zero story in becoming Artemis, why did they bother?  

Why are they bothering becomes a reoccurring question since most of the new characters are like that.  It's like all they want to collect are the names (and the masks) even while pretty much ignoring them.

Even with Prometheus.  That's a character that was a big deal in the Green Arrow's history.  Has crazy strong powers and destroys a huge amount of Star City and it pushed "Ollie" to cross that line and kill him.  Huge fallout.

 But our Oliver is already back to not only killing, but super casual about when he does or doesn't and who doesn't try to destroy Star City?  The story the show is telling about Oliver's past creating his enemy is actually kind of interesting, but I think it would be a lot more interesting if they didn't try to connect it to a totally unrelated comic book character.  It's like Prometheus is just a name they pulled from the hat.  

So why add all these newbies to get in the way of the characters the audience already cares about when very little is even being done with all of these masks?  What benefit are they actually getting?

The PTB said the shows Prometheus has no connection to the comics and is their own creation.

But ia on all the other new additions.

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Assuming Tina is a love interest for someone (and odds are, she is, or why else use casting sides that focus on sexual tension), would height factor into whose love interest she turns out to be?

Juliana Harkavy is 5'8." With heels, she could well top 6' - and I don't see her getting a superhero suit without heels.

Rick Gonzalez is 5'8".  Stephen Amell is 6'1".

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1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Assuming Tina is a love interest for someone (and odds are, she is, or why else use casting sides that focus on sexual tension), would height factor into whose love interest she turns out to be?

Juliana Harkavy is 5'8." With heels, she could well top 6' - and I don't see her getting a superhero suit without heels.

Rick Gonzalez is 5'8".  Stephen Amell is 6'1".

I think height more than age definitely factors when choosing a LI. She's very tall and even if she wore flats she'd look taller than Rick. The actress is following Stephen, Emily and Joe the actor that plays Ragman. I'm interested to know why that is, I can understand following Emily and Stephen but why Joe?

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2 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

The actress is following Stephen, Emily and Joe the actor that plays Ragman. I'm interested to know why that is, I can understand following Emily and Stephen but why Joe?

Could have to do with who's been on set when she's filming? 

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6 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Could have to do with who's been on set when she's filming? 

Could be, but it would be odd she'd only film with him unless there's a bigger plan to have to them in more scenes together. I checked and he's following her back. Only actor besides Stephen to follow her.

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37 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Joe is the only one everyone follows. Maybe everyone just likes him.

I meant the main cast, I know david doesn't follow him yet. But it's weird that all of the newbies and other regular cast she would follow him. And yes Joe is definitely the type everyone would like.

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I don't know about anyone else but I'm desperately hoping she doesn't become Oliver's love interest.  It's bad enough that I have to watch Felicity having nooners with Mayo, to have "'They look at each other. Sexual tension palpable. Are we finally going to get an Oliver/Tina kiss?" is going to put me off not just the show but my dinner too.

11 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I tend to think the LI thing is a writer/showrunner problem.  Partly left over misunderstanding of the Moonlighting Curse and partly because it's a tool, like a way to use plot to push characters in certain directions whether it's in character or not.  I tend to see it as a writers crutch.   

What gets me is that they're doing exactly what really killed Moonlighting, which is not that the OTP got together but that after that the writers split them up and spent ages in ridiculous plotlines and other love interests to keep them apart.  If it's a crutch, can I beat them over the head with it?

ETA:  Josh Segarra seems pretty tall.  Fingers crossed Tina is for Chase.

Edited by statsgirl
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