Spoiler Discussion Thread

[kismet]

Don't all 4 of those actors have steady acting gigs on other shows? And just no to ZombieLaurel, as an option. Plus, I really think they should avoid Zombies this season, we had enough mysticism with DD.

I think its going to be the return of an old nemesis. I don't want to get me hopes up and think MM (cuz I think he's more s6), but I do wonder.

I think its going to be like Slade again, where you'll have a friend become enemy. Part of me wonders if there has been a plan in motion since OQ's Bratva days that will come to light now and ruin his present.

I'm reading a retelling of s1 fanfic and it interesting because it made me realize that there was only a thin difference between what MM & DD and what OQ came back to do in his Vigilante days. They all thought that they were "saving the city" by whatever means necessary. I know that OQ intentions were far more noble than diabolical. But I can't help but wonder if those similarities will be brought up in the s5 narrative, especially now that OQ is saving the city by day & night. So he really is running the show on all levels, that type of power can be alluring & dangerous. Perhaps they'll use this season to tell us the difference between a Hero (OQ) & an Anti-Hero (James, the new guy).

Edited June 1, 2016 by kismet
to advocate against zombies

[Password]

24 minutes ago, kismet said:

I'm reading a retelling of s1 fanfic and it interesting because it made me realize that there was only a thin difference between what MM & DD and what OQ came back to do in his Vigilante days. They all thought that they were "saving the city" by whatever means necessary. I know that OQ intentions were far more noble than diabolical. 

Is it the "just like heaven" retelling because I had a very similar thought. 

[kismet]

5 hours ago, Password said:

Is it the "just like heaven" retelling because I had a very similar thought. 

No its a story called "Remarkable", which so far I like - although it does lose some priceless Olicity origin moments. I haven't read "just like heaven". Is it good?

[wonderwall]

33 minutes ago, kismet said:

No its a story called "Remarkable", which so far I like - although it does lose some priceless Olicity origin moments. I haven't read "just like heaven". Is it good?

I posted a link to it on the clocktower thread. I enjoyed it a lot! 

[tv echo]

How about someone else who lost a loved one when the earthquake machine destroyed the Glades or when Slade's mirakuru army overran the city?  Like an anti-Ray Palmer.  Instead of motivating him toward good, the loss motivates him toward evil.

Edited June 1, 2016 by tv echo

[Thundercatmary]

Also they could still introduce the big bad early on, just don't force them into every episode in the season, intersperse them throughout the season and then ramp it up towards the finale. You know, pace themselves ;)

[Morrigan2575]

As someone who loved Darhk from start to finish, I'd be OK with that if the next Big Bad was as entertaining. Problem is, I doubt they'll find anyone near as fun, so they should probably stick to the x09 reveals. 

Or go the S2 route with introducing the mini-bad (Blood) as the Big Bad and then do the Big Bad for Realz reveal in x09.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Something about the quote that they couldn't have done this kind of villain in earlier seasons makes me think of something similar to what @tv echo mentioned, somebody who was affected by what Oliver or the team did in earlier seasons. This would probably never happen but I'm hoping for maybe nemeses for Oliver, Felicity and Digg who go after them individually all season long and maybe band together in the last 5 eps. 

I also like your idea @Morrigan2575 of a swerve similar to S2 where there's a Big Bad introduced earlier on who's the puppet of the Bigger Bad. 

Edited June 1, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[Thundercatmary]

Maybe a survivor of the nuclear bomb, or family member of someone who died. 

[Happy Harpy]

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

How about someone else who lost a loved one when the earthquake machine destroyed the Glades or when Slade's mirakuru army overran the city?  Like an anti-Ray Palmer.  Instead of motivating him toward good, the loss motivates him toward evil.

It's a good idea and I like it, but didn't the show do something similar already in 2x01 with the Arrow copycats? IIRC, they were people who lost loved ones etc. in the Glades earthquake.

[way2interested]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

It's a good idea and I like it, but didn't the show do something similar already in 2x01 with the Arrow copycats? IIRC, they were people who lost loved ones etc. in the Glades earthquake.

Weirdly enough, I wouldn't really mind it? Like even if the big bad for s5 is someone who wants to destroy Oliver's life and reputation as the Green Arrow because of something that happened in the flashbacks like Slade, I wouldn't really mind too much because that would at least be a more personal story line concerning fighting the villain. They could tweak a few things to make the story/connection to Oliver a bit different, but given a choice between kind of copying and trying to raise the stakes globally again, I'm willing to take the slight recycling in this case.

It would be kind of cool if whoever it was did lose someone from the s1/s2 finale or even Havenrock and he/she would just want Team Arrow and Oliver's reputation as heroes and symbols for the city to end because of all of the various people they have failed to save throughout the years. 

Edited June 2, 2016 by way2interested

[kismet]

I didn't mind DD being there all season. I minded the fact that the Ghosts were repetitive and they ran out of things for DD to do. An all season villain can be done, you just need more than him stopping arrows in midair and air suffocating people. DD could have monologuing and dropped a one-liner every episode, the problem is at the end of the day that has to build to something, and sadly in s4 it never built to anything.

I wouldn't mind if somebody from the Earthquake wanted revenge - although I think that has been done on the show in some way. Plus unless they go after MM, it would feel like other people paying for MM's choices, which I'm over. But I would hate if anyone from the nuclear attack chose to take revenge on TA/SC, because that was not really anybody's choice.

[BkWurm1]

22 hours ago, catrox14 said:

My guesses:

Zombie!Moira
Zombie!Tommy
Helena
McKenna

I don't think the actress is available but they could have made a pretty good villian with McKenna with a bit more of tweaking.  Her whole life got altered because of the Hood and his enemies.  Really wasn't Oliver's fault but I can see her holding it against him and taking up the same attitude that Quentin had in the back half of season 3 but to more of an extreme, kind of fighting fire with fire attitude. Didn't she go to Central City?  She probably has had it with all the crazy stuff going on.  Toss in some kind of family connection in Havenrock and she'd be good to go.

I don't really want her to be a Big Bad but we haven't had a female Big Bad before (Isabell was a medium bad and Moira was redeemed) and I'd be curious to see what they'd do with one. 

When it comes to past characters that would come back with a grudge, I just don't think they left enough of them alive to use someone from their real past, but I'm ok if they introduce us to one we'd never seen before.  Give us flashbacks of the whole team as a team sometime earlier in their history. 

[bijoux]

I think she went to Coast City, actually. That one got more shout outs than Central City in S1 as far as I remember.

[kismet]

McKenna went to Coast City. I also believe the actress is not available.

We do need a female bad, I just hope its not her. I would hate for her to turn especially against SC. And definitely not for season long arc or mini-arc. Plus isn't it really the huntress's fault? 

[dtissagirl]

Janina Gavankar's show was canceled, so she is probably available.

But also, I thought the comment about this villain only being able to exist in a fifth season meant Malcolm. Yuck. Prove me wrong, show.

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

But also, I thought the comment about this villain only being able to exist in a fifth season meant Malcolm. Yuck. Prove me wrong, show.

My first thought, Robert Queen back from the "dead"

[dtissagirl]

12 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

My first thought, Robert Queen back from the "dead"

I don't know if I like that, but it would be the kind of "surprising" Guggie likes.

And Jamey Sheridan's show was also canceled, so he's probably available.

[Morrigan2575]

20 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I don't know if I like that, but it would be the kind of "surprising" Guggie likes.

And Jamey Sheridan's show was also canceled, so he's probably available.

Yeah, I don't think I'd like it either. If they had to do Evil Robert Queen I would prefer E2 to another dead person coming back to life. 

However, that was just my first thought related to that season 5 villain line.  I don't think there's anything to support it. 

Edited June 2, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[bijoux]

31 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

But also, I thought the comment about this villain only being able to exist in a fifth season meant Malcolm. Yuck. Prove me wrong, show.

 

27 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

My first thought, Robert Queen back from the "dead"

Narratively, seeing as Malcolm organized the Undertaking and Robert was complicit, only to have doubts which is why Malcolm rigged the boat, it makes sensse. The flashbacks are supposedly ending with next season and circling back to the beginning makes sense. However, it would take some major magic to resurrect Robert who shot himself in the head, was picked by seagulls and then buried by Oliver. It's hard for me to take Malcolm seriously these days since other characters treat him as the whacky uncle who pees in the bushes during family picnics. I mean, the dude was complicit in a plan to NUKE THE WORLD and nobody blinked when he showed up in the lair. Come on!

That said, if they managed to find a way to make him into what he was in the first season and then take him down once and for all, I'm giving it two thumbs up. 

[Chris24601]

My hunch is that the villain they couldn't do before now will tie directly into Ollie's Bratva days. Sure they COULD have introduced him before now, but if they wanted to link the flashbacks in a more meaningful way (since these should be the last we have to endure because we'll be all caught up) they might have wanted to wait until they were doing the Bratva stuff to introduce the character.

If they actually made the flashbacks all about how Ollie going dark in Russia ruined this guy's life and turned him into a vengeance seeking villain that could be a really effective use for them.

[tv echo]

I was not a fan of McKenna and don't want her back.  

Hey, what if the villain was someone who Oliver knew in his Bratva days and who moved to Star City but lost someone within the past three years?

Or, a lot of criminals escaped with Darhk - so he could be someone that the Arrow was responsible for capturing and sending to prison in the first place. Oh wait, maybe he was also someone that Laurel successfully prosecuted ("you catch him, I cook him") so that her memory lives on in S5.

Edited June 2, 2016 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

Quote

In addition to casting Oliver'sunpredictable/"charming" new adversary, Season 5 will also introduce the recurring role of a cocksure/reckless ex-Marine turned vigilante. ...

New vigilante, returning Roy, Curtis in the mix — sure feels like Season 5 is already getting crowded.

[way2interested]

I'm wondering though if they'll make this character a woman just to mix things up...Although I would be just ramming my head against a wall with the "new love interest" theories that would come from it.

[Midnight Lullaby]

They should definitely bring some female villain in the mix. Someone with Moira's attitude but very very evil. 

[Morrigan2575]

Hmm, i wonder if that Ex Marine Vigilante is going to be how they bring Diggle back? 

BTW, I don't expect that Ex Marine to be a huge role or team member. Perhaps he/she is a one off character, villain etc.  

[lemotomato]

7 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I'm wondering though if they'll make this character a woman just to mix things up...Although I would be just ramming my head against a wall with the "new love interest" theories that would come from it.

You might be onto something. "Cocksure/reckless" wannabe vigilante sounds like LL/BC 3.0 if they cast a woman. 

[way2interested]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

BTW, I don't expect that Ex Marine to be a huge role or team member. Perhaps he/she is a one off character, villain etc.  

I'm thinking same, kind of like Anarky in 4a. Although it would be interesting if he/she did have a connection with Diggle.

Just now, lemotomato said:

You might be onto something. "Cocksure/reckless" wannabe vigilante sounds like LL/BC 3.0 if they cast a woman. 

I'm just seeing a lot of people online assuming it's a guy, when it's not really gender specific (even though I just assumed it would be a woman without proof as well). Part of me thinks that if it is an actual recurring role (which I'm thinking not really, more like the VOTW/antagonist for 501 while "James" might be the Brother Blood for 5a), and if it is a woman, maybe it was supposed to be the role that Baby Canary was supposed to be (new reckless vigilante in the city), but because of little reaction to her, they switched the role?

[wonderwall]

44 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

New vigilante, returning Roy, Curtis in the mix — sure feels like Season 5 is already getting crowded.

Roy returning would be welcome, IMO. But I only see him coming back for max 3-4 episodes which isn't much

This new vigilante person... Like @Morrigan2575 I think s/he'll  have a small role, sort of like Anarky and is a connection to Diggle most likely which I'm totally up for if we get more Diggle Flashbacks

Curtis is the one I'm worried about the most. I simply don't care about him but the show seems hellbent on making him into Mister Terrific and I just don't want that. That transformation into vigilantism takes time and I don't want Curtis to take up that much screentime. 

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah, in terms of S5 seeming crowded or like too much is going on--I think we worry about that before every season, because every casting notice seems weighted the same way, when in reality, most of these roles will come down to not much screentime at all. I mean, we talked about Jeri Ryan's character and her daughter so much before S4 and that was one episode.

OTOH, we have been right, historically, to worry about two areas of overstuffing. The first is w/r/t launching or supporting spinoffs, and I do think that the worst parts of 4A were related to launching LoT. The Sara thing was handled very poorly, IMO (though Constantine was fun), and the less said about the crossover the better. So far, we haven't heard anything about S5 that worries me in that regard. The second area of legitimate concern has been related to overcrowding in the team and in the lair, and in that case, I do think there's some reason to wonder about Curtis's role. But, I like him about 100 times more than I liked Laurel, so at least his presence itself won't annoy me. And honestly, I don't think they're setting him up to be anything other than a tertiary character on this show, and possibly someone who may end up on LoT in its third season. So I'm actually not that worried about that either.

[tarotx]

They are really hinting at the Flashbacks lately-could this new Marine be a Flashback character or do they announce them different? I know they announced Taiana as a Flashback love interest but I've never followed casting before late summer 2015. But perhaps the marine is someone who Oliver learns from and trains with? I figure there will be someone to play this role season 5. I can't help but get a Slade vibe for no real reason. But if she's Female I definitely want her a flashback character. But I guess with Laurel dead, Sara off on LoT and Katrina Law cast in a new show, a kick ass female is needed. Thea is too cute and different for her to play that traditional "kick ass" role but I like her for being a different version of a kick ass fighting girl.

I think James is going to be like the slightly younger version of Oliver-Maybe like Oliver season 4 in the Flashbacks and he'll go darker as the season goes forward on a similar trajectory as s5 FB Oliver. And present day Oliver will have to face a season 1 version of himself? I hope James will be a Thea love interest along with Roy and her odd thing with Anarky. I rather keep the new love interests with her cause she's still young. I'm done with Oliver and Felicity with other love interest angst. The show has proven they can't support it without sending both characters into a mess.

Edited June 2, 2016 by tarotx

[SmallScreenDiva]

I know, I'm overreacting. I did remember when we were coming up with all kinds of backstories, etc. for Jeri Ryan's character on this board and she and her daughter turned out to be one-offs. But I also remember when Arrow got too excited with the shiny new thing and sidelined both Felicity and Diggle (of course, now I understand the narrative point of that in Season 2 but I still hate it with the fire of a thousand burning suns and I resent it for making me resent a character I used to like).

@wonderwall, I liked the way they used Curtis this season but yeah, I'm also wary of how they will try to fit him in. And I'm seriously getting tired of all the suits. I don't care if this new vigilante is a man or a woman. All I see is another suit, another "destiny" that the show wants to fulfill. 

[looptab]

That line about the villain they could only do in the fifth season made me think of someone they met in earlier season,  or that they have influenced somehow, as others have said. No idea about James or this Marine. I like the idea of thr Marine being a woman,  anyway I'm sure they're going to cast a woman in some recurring role.

[dtissagirl]

I need more than the casting call to worry whether a character will take too much screen time. I need to know who they'll cast. I mean, the second Arrow cast Brandon Routh I knew he would be on screen A LOT A LOT A LOT. Whoever they cast as "James", and whoever they cast as this ex-Marine person, it'll make a difference. If it's a known name, it comes attached with screen time. If it's a nobody, then it could go either way.

[looptab]

1 minute ago, dtissagirl said:

I need more than the casting call to worry whether a character will take too much screen time. I need to know who they'll cast. I mean, the second Arrow cast Brandon Routh I knew he would be on screen A LOT A LOT A LOT. Whoever they cast as "James", and whoever they cast as this ex-Marine person, it'll make a difference. If it's a known name, it comes attached with screen time. If it's a nobody, then it could go either way.

Right. I wasn't even thinking of the ramifications in terms of screentime, honestly I only ask  that whoever they cast can act.

Wendy's choice of words made me laugh. 'There's the possibility we find out how he learnt Russian'. Lol bring back Anatoly. Now.

[SmallScreenDiva]

15 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I need more than the casting call to worry whether a character will take too much screen time. I need to know who they'll cast. I mean, the second Arrow cast Brandon Routh I knew he would be on screen A LOT A LOT A LOT. 

I read "A LOT A LOT A LOT" in my head in Lindsay Lohan's voice from a scene in "Parent Trap." :P

[dtissagirl]

I think we also need to be prepared for a whole bunch of rando recurring characters if Oliver gets to be Mayor for a stretch of episodes. They're gonna have to populate City Hall somehow. And Wendy just mentioned it's gonna be important.

[AyChihuahua]

If it's someone from the present-day past, v the flashbacks, I'd want it to be someone we've at least seen already, v. Cupid and the Cane Toad never existing during the Siege, until suddenly we see flashbacks to that time from their perspective. I can't really remember anyone from past seasons who stood out enough in terms of screen presence/acting ability who's not already dead in-show or unavailable IRL. McKenna, nah. They kind of had Helena redeem herself, esp with the comics. Ooh, Carter Bowen! AND Max Fuller...they can team up to form an Evil Douchebag Society! Add in that one drug kid Oliver found hooking up with Thea at the Queen Family Christmas Party, and you have a douchebag trifecta.

Or maybe that guy who eyed up Felicity when she and Oliver sneaked into Merlyn Global. He's been holding a grudge against Oliver for ruining his shot with that hot blonde delivery girl ever since.

Edited June 2, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[BkWurm1]

11 hours ago, bijoux said:

I think she went to Coast City, actually. That one got more shout outs than Central City in S1 as far as I remember.

Oops.  I remembered it had the CC initials at least, lol. 

If the ex marine vigilante turned out to be in the flashbacks, it would mean that Oliver was predisposed to Diggle before he ever met him (assuming the ex marine vigilante didn't turn out to be eVOL!!  Either way it could be a parallel with Diggle in some manner past or present. 

One way that Diggle could end up being released from his enlistment is due to medical reasons.  What if he ends up returning because he's suffering debilitating trauma left over from killing Andy, what if he finds out he freezes still under combat situations?  Dig could come back then and still have to battle through his issues.  They could even hint that he could go dark (though we'd never believe or accept that).  I mean, someone still has to bring the melodrama and Oliver and Felicity have done their share in the last couple years. 

[Sunshine]

The ex marine vigilante could be flashback as well as present day.  He could be where Oliver got the idea of righting his family's wrongs as a vigilante came from.  He also could be responsible for Oliver's hand-to-hand combat skills.  Becoming a Bratva captain makes more sense to me if he is already a force to be reckoned with when he comes across them. Amanda might not be so keen on dropping Oliver off in Russia.  She was hoping he would continue doing jobs for her/ARGUS.  She expected to be on his "list" when he showed up at ARGUS in 2.16.  

Guy could then show up in present day to cause problems for Mayor Queen and Star City.  Someone who knows his secret.  

[tv echo]

Maybe the "cocksure/reckless ex-Marine turned vigilante" will be part of Diggle's storyline.  It could be someone, male or female, that Diggle befriends or saves (or is saved by) while he's in the military over the summer hiatus. This person accompanies (or brings) Diggle back to Star City and finds out about Team Arrow. Then, this person could be mentored by Diggle or Oliver in the same way that Diggle mentored Oliver or Oliver mentored Roy.  

Or, if I'm wildly speculating, this person (if female) could be part of a love triangle with Diggle and Lyla. I'm not saying that Diggle would be unfaithful during the summer hiatus, but he could develop a combat bond with this person, plus there could be increasing estrangement with Lyla due to Lyla's ARGUS-related decisions.

Edited June 3, 2016 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

http://tvline.com/2016/06/03/arrow-season-5-villain-cast-anton-church-spoilers/

Quote

TVLine has learned exclusively that the CW drama’s upcoming fifth season will introduce a new villain loosely inspired by Idris Elba’s Wire drug kingpin Stringer Bell.

The character, tentatively named “Anton Church,” is a ruthless crime lord who sets out to fill the sizable void left by Damien Darhk and H.I.V.E. The initial casting notice describes him as an “apex predator” who “cuts his way through the shadows” by taking down “the biggest threat first.” (Um, he’s looking at you, Ollie Q.)

While the role is being likened to Elba’s classic Wire baddie, the breakdown also references ex-Game of Thrones actor Jason Momoa as a physical prototype.

[jay741982]

Why don't they get Jason Momoa to play him? Oops that's right he's Aquaman 

[Morrigan2575]

Why is that guy a character they could only do in S5?  I don't get it.

It's a pity they actually can't use Momoa because of Aquaman, he'd probably do it to work with his buddies.

[dtissagirl]

That character's gonna be about 17% Stringer Bell max, considering Arrow airs 8pm on the freaking CW.
 

[jay741982]

Maybe they get Oded Fehr to play this role? 

[Morrigan2575]

Just now, jay741982 said:

Maybe they get Oded Fehr to play this role? 

hah. that would be funny.

[tv echo]

Reading that TVLine blurb makes me think of SA's comment in one of his interviews where he mock-complained that he looks 5'7" on the show even though he's 6'1" because they cast the tallest guys in Hollywood to appear on Arrow. (Jason Momoa is 6'4" and Idris Elba is 6'3".)

DR is 6'2" and EK is 6'4", if you're wondering.

Edited June 3, 2016 by tv echo
.

[Guest]

So no female villain then? Sigh. Makes me wonder if the ex-marine might be female instead.

[catrox14]

"Shhiiiiiiiitttt"

SHUT YOUR DAMN MOUTH, Arrow.  There is no one like Stringer Bell as portrayed by Idris Elba and I am ACTIVELY OFFENDED at the comparison LOL. I love Arrow but FFS it's no "The Wire " which IMO is the greatest TV Show that has ever graced the airwaves with apologies to my beloved Breaking Bad and BSG.

Please Arrow. Don't try to do The Wire in your show.I'm sure that's some hyperbole on Arrow's part to reference Stringer Bell and The Wire at all but just in case.....

  --The Glades have not been shown to be West Baltimore. Is Arrow  going to expand the cast to include more persons of color but make them drug lords and gang members? That wouldn't look bad at all....

--Surely Oliver will not be the blond haired blued eyed white savior of the Glades as Mayor. Will he become the questionable Tommy Carcetti? That might be interesting. But Oliver is a hero so no.

--I'm gonna need some Omar Little and by gonna need, DON'T YOU DARE ARROW LOL.

-- They are gonna need the Barksdales for Arrow!Stringer to make sense.

Etc, etc, etc.