Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Midnight Lullaby]

I'm not that interested in how Laurel will die because I don't really care about her that much..for a while she hasn't mattered in the main SL so I grew apathetic to her presence on the show but it's never nice to see anyone die in the way Sara did. It was unnecessary so I'm good with a heroic death, maybe saving Thea or her dad.

[Scribbles]

Help me out.  When all of you say heroic death, what do you mean?  BC performing a heroic act at the moment of death????  Martyrdom? Moira took a sword to the gut for the family and that was a heroic way to go, but then she wasn't all that heroic day to day.   Tommy died to save Laurel from her own stubborn choices, he was a hero but it was hard to mourn him for anger at Laurel (maybe just me) and I hated how she got to be a victim following it all.

 

When I say she should die as she lived, i mean it.  She lives recklessly/impetuously, and usually acting despite sound advice from others.  I could see her dying after some anonymous tip comes in that she can get X or save X and she rolls out alone and gets clocked charging in unprepared.  That would fit her story.  Help me here.

[jay741982]

I really hope this episode doesn't have very limited Felicity 410 proved that this show needs her IMO

[Midnight Lullaby]

Help me out.  When all of you say heroic death, what do you mean?  BC performing a heroic act at the moment of death????  Martyrdom? Moira took a sword to the gut for the family and that was a heroic way to go, but then she wasn't all that heroic day to day.   Tommy died to save Laurel from her own stubborn choices, he was a hero but it was hard to mourn him for anger at Laurel (maybe just me) and I hated how she got to be a victim following it all.

 

When I say she should die as she lived, i mean it.  She lives recklessly/impetuously, and usually acting despite sound advice from others.  I could see her dying after some anonymous tip comes in that she can get X or save X and she rolls out alone and gets clocked charging in unprepared.  That would fit her story.  Help me here.

As I said saving Thea or her dad. Maybe her reckless choices put them all in danger and she refuses to let them pay for them. Something like that if I had to take a guess I think.

[catrox14]

 

hen I say she should die as she lived, i mean it.  She lives recklessly/impetuously, and usually acting despite sound advice from others.  I could see her dying after some anonymous tip comes in that she can get X or save X and she rolls out alone and gets clocked charging in unprepared.  That would fit her story.  Help me here.

 

I don't think they'll do that because it's been shown since she became part of TA that she was less reckless. If KC has any say in her character's end then I'm sure she'll want to show that Laurel grew and changed and became a better person, so heroic death it is.

 

I'd even argue she'll want to prove that her version of the Black Canary is a better hero than her sister...(okay that's more of my petty bitter side.) 

[Scribbles]

As I said saving Thea or her dad. Maybe her reckless choices put them all in danger and she refuses to let them pay for them. Something like that if I had to take a guess I think.

How bout if the "offer" she is gets is something that deals with getting her dad's job back if she comes alone...blah blah...off she goes...whomp!

 

I don't think they'll do that because it's been shown since she became part of TA that she was less reckless. If KC has any say in her character's end then I'm sure she'll want to show that Laurel grew and changed and became a better person, so heroic death it is.

 

I'd even argue she'll want to prove that her version of the Black Canary is a better hero than her sister...(okay that's more of my petty bitter side.) 

To be honest, the last thing I remember her doing other than constantly asking Oliver to chat with her so she can remind him they once dated is toting her sister's corpse to Nanda Parbat for dip.  She did that on the sly, forced it, poof to Lazarus Pit, then brought her back to rage kill folks while not otherwise chained in the basement with the family pics.  Remind me the reveal of her as not impetuous and such please.

[BkWurm1]

I just don't want her on her knees or treated bad as she dies. That's my standard.

[AyChihuahua]

To be honest, the last thing I remember her doing other than constantly asking Oliver to chat with her so she can remind him they once dated is toting her sister's corpse to Nanda Parbat for dip.  She did that on the sly, forced it, poof to Lazarus Pit, then brought her back to rage kill folks while not otherwise chained in the basement with the family pics.  Remind me the reveal of her as not impetuous and such please.

I think death as a result of her impetuousness would be true to her character, but I want a heroic death for out-of-show reasons.

[Scribbles]

I just don't want her on her knees or treated bad as she dies. That's my standard.

 

So if it is something like running off alone on a tip to save her father's job or some such it is ok as long as she is not made a wilting damsel killed by a guy sort of thing?

 

I agree I would prefer none of the sexist stuff thrown in to the mix.  It would be in character for her to fight back so she should.

I think death as a result of her impetuousness would be true to her character, but I want a heroic death for out-of-show reasons.

I can see that idea of wanting it to be something that will not add fuel to off screen issues.  That is why I am hoping it is tied to a heartfelt desire to help Quentin driving her headlong to her peril.  I really want the graveside line by Oliver that it is not his fault (or any other team member's) to pan plainly out.

[Sakura12]

I'd even argue she'll want to prove that her version of the Black Canary is a better hero than her sister...(okay that's more of my petty bitter side.) 

 

Considering Sara became an assassin for another two years, she wouldn't have to do that much. 

 

I would be fine with Laurel recklessly running into a building to save her dad. Just not a Supergirl style heroics, where all the people gather around and gave her round of applause and talk about how heroic she was. However with Black Canary being on the grave that seems like that is a possibility. Laurel can get her wish of other people calling her hero over her calling herself one. 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Sakura12

[nksarmi]

Saving Thea would probably be the show's best option for the remaining characters:

 

- Quentin would be proud of that rather than feeling guilty if she was killed as punishment for his betrayal of Darhk/HIVE

- It Laurel's death can in any way circle back to Malcolm - it will add another layer to their evil father/heroic daughter conflict (and make any scene we EVER get between Thea and Sara that much more complex and full of potential should it EVER happen!)

- Oliver would be grateful rather than guilty

- Felicity won't be literally put in the place of having Laurel die for her/olicity

 

Now within the confines of the previews - I'd say there is potential for Laurel to die trying to prevent something bad from going down between Oliver, Diggle, and Andy.  I am almost certain that Diggle would side with Oliver over Andy no matter what, BUT I could still see Laurel dying to prevent someone from having to kill someone else - giving Diggle the chance to save his brother than she got to "save" her sister or something like that.

 

*** Sidenote: Since we have recently been reminded about the "brainwashing" effect of joining certain types of organizations recently on LoT with Sara and the League.  I could see them doing some kind of parallel about if Andy cane be full removed from the HIVE thinking and totally saved and Laurel dying to make sure Diggle makes every effort to make that happen or something along those lines.
 

[Menrva]

Is it possible that Andy kills Laurel in some sort of double cross? Or is that reaching too far? It would certainly provide lots of manly angst for Oliver and Diggle.

I have mixed feelings about Laurel's impending doom. On one hand, we're finally cutting her loose but on the other hand, I never really wanted her dead. Just gone. I even wrote a whole fracking fanfic to get Laurel out of Star(ling) City without killing her off! I never liked this character and KC always seemed kind of bitchy to me. But now I have guilt. Be careful what you wish for, I suppose.

[wonderwall]

Wrong thread

Edited April 4, 2016 by wonderwall

[Jessie2009]

When are they screening it?

[Guest]

Doesn't Laurel get an interesting offer in 418? I wonder if it's gonna be some kind of trap instead maybe? 

 

Also, isn't that actress who everyone thought was playing a young Laurel in 418 too? Or is she in 419? I know she was pictured walking alongside KL at the funeral so I'm wondering if she's linked to Nyssa and when/how they're gonna bring her in.

[way2interested]

Also, isn't that actress who everyone thought was playing a young Laurel in 418 too? Or is she in 419? I know she was pictured walking alongside KL at the funeral so I'm wondering if she's linked to Nyssa and when/how they're gonna bring her in.

I think she was reported to be in 418 but was seen in the funeral pics for 419? If not, then just for 419 I believe. Honestly, now that Taila is not an option anymore I have no ideas for her or why should would be at Laurel's funeral. 

[apinknightmare]

Maybe Laurel dies protecting her?

Edited April 4, 2016 by apinknightmare

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Oh and note to the mods: 

 

I realize we all post like maniacs, but was it really necessary to bring down all the forums for a night just so you guys could get a break?   ;)  Scary Error messages are scary.  (I may be an addict.)

 

True story: some of the mods were chatting on Skype while the forums were down.  Several people were concerned about the mental health of the Arrow posters while we were down.  :)

 

I half expected you guys to bombard poor Dave on Twitter.  ("@Glark, how long until the forums are up?!"  "@Glark, why is it taking so long?"  @Glark, I'm getting the jitters!  Just give me a little taste to get me through.")

[SmallScreenDiva]

True story: some of the mods were chatting on Skype while the forums were down.  Several people were concerned about the mental health of the Arrow posters while we were down.  :)

 

I half expected you guys to bombard poor Dave on Twitter.  ("@Glark, how long until the forums are up?!"  "@Glark, why is it taking so long?"  @Glark, I'm getting the jitters!  Just give me a little taste to get me through.")

 

Oh, good to know who we can harass on Twitter for next time. Thanks for the "suggestion!" *evil laugh*

Edited April 4, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[wonderwall]

True story: some of the mods were chatting on Skype while the forums were down.  Several people were concerned about the mental health of the Arrow posters while we were down.  :)

 

I half expected you guys to bombard poor Dave on Twitter.  ("@Glark, how long until the forums are up?!"  "@Glark, why is it taking so long?"  @Glark, I'm getting the jitters!  Just give me a little taste to get me through.")

 

Visual representation of the Arrow posters when the site goes down:

 

 

Visual representation of the mods when said posters start freaking out :p:

 

 

BONUS. Visual representation of the mods trying to stop the posters from talking about fandom (whoops):

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by wonderwall

[dtissagirl]

True story: some of the mods were chatting on Skype while the forums were down.  Several people were concerned about the mental health of the Arrow posters while we were down.  :)

 

I half expected you guys to bombard poor Dave on Twitter.  ("@Glark, how long until the forums are up?!"  "@Glark, why is it taking so long?"  @Glark, I'm getting the jitters!  Just give me a little taste to get me through.")

This was me Saturday at 4am trying to stay awake before boarding a flight:

http://twitter.com/dtissagirl/status/716172052227600384

It's a hard knock life for us.

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Visual representation of the mods when said posters start freaking out :p:

 

 

It's like looking in a mirror!

[wonderwall]

It's like looking in a mirror!

It's quite frankly an honor to be anything like Lucille Bluth. 

[looptab]

The other thing that I am hanging in there with great curiosity about is how she dies. Public or private death, accident or otherwise, ......so many questions.

I wonder if she'll say something like 'You know me, always trying to save the world' and activate the death curse.

I'm shocked they didn't put that on the tombstone.

[EmilyBettFan]

If those are her last words I won't be able to hold it in. I will leave it at that. Don't want to offend anyone.

[BkWurm1]

So if it is something like running off alone on a tip to save her father's job or some such it is ok as long as she is not made a wilting damsel killed by a guy sort of thing?

 

I agree I would prefer none of the sexist stuff thrown in to the mix.  It would be in character for her to fight back so she should.

I can see that idea of wanting it to be something that will not add fuel to off screen issues.  That is why I am hoping it is tied to a heartfelt desire to help Quentin driving her headlong to her peril.  I really want the graveside line by Oliver that it is not his fault (or any other team member's) to pan plainly out.

 

Yeah, I don't need Laurel to die smart, just with good intentions, some control over her actions, and respect at the end (no dumpsters).  Beyond that like anything on the show, if it's going to happen anyway, I'd like them to make me care though likely as they did with Broken Hearts, the "make the audience care" part will come in the episode after the death. 

I wonder if she'll say something like 'You know me, always trying to save the world' and activate the death curse.

I'm shocked they didn't put that on the tombstone.

No lie, I'm really hoping they work that in. 

[Chaser]

Maybe Laurel dies protecting her?

You know, if Laurel dies saving someone I kind of like the idea of it being a stranger as opposed to Lance or Thea. It doesn't fit with anything being set up by the show, but it would really hit home the reality of being a vigilante. 

[BkWurm1]

2 Days, 18 hours, 23 minutes, 20 seconds. 

[wonderwall]

I'm honestly deathly afraid that the writers are going to frame Laurel's death as Felicity's fault or something that could've been prevented if Felicity was still a part of the team. Deathly terrified :/

[BkWurm1]

I'm honestly deathly afraid that the writers are going to frame Laurel's death as Felicity's fault or something that could've been prevented if Felicity was still a part of the team. Deathly terrified :/

I'm getting to the point where I don't care.  If the team thought they were not equipped to go out without Felicity's help, then it is on them to ask for help.  They are all adults who were not being forced into any of this. 

Edited April 4, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Chaser]

The Eps talked about there being consequences of Felicity leaving the Team. In the preview, Oliver talks about the Team fracturing. I'm assuming Felicity leaving is the first fracture and the issues with Diggle/Andy the second. I can see how that could look to some people.  

 

One thing I noticed about how the EPs have talked about the death, is they put the emphasis on the Team not Oliver. I'm wondering if Laurel dies as a result of the entire Team being distracted. Felicity is off at Palmer. Oliver and Diggle are focused on (or at odds over) Andy. Thea is dealing with Malcolm. Maybe Laurel doesn't have back up. 

[wonderwall]

I'm getting to the point where I don't care.  If the team thought they were not equipped to go out without Felicity's help, then it is on them to ask for help.  They are all adults who were not being forced into any of this. 

 

See the problem with me is that what if they ask Felicity to help but she refuses? *sigh* 

[Chaser]

See the problem with me is that what if they ask Felicity to help but she refuses? *sigh* 

Or they don't ask her at all because they think she won't help? I'm not fan of either option.

 

Honestly, it kind of bugs me that we have a big moment with Dig and Felicity may not be apart of it. Granted its not like they would interact if Felicity was still on the Team. 

 

Grrrrr. I'm butter. 

[EmilyBettFan]

But they have Curtis who can DO everything.

I'm sorry but if this comes around to being Felicity's fault there will be hell to pay from me and others on social media. How much can they unload on this character? I think it's ridiculous if they try to put this all on Felicity's shoulders. If Laurel is going to die she should go out in the way she lived. Which someone else said because she is reckless.

[BkWurm1]

The Eps talked about there being consequences of Felicity leaving the Team. In the preview, Oliver talks about the Team fracturing. I'm assuming Felicity leaving is the first fracture and the issues with Diggle/Andy the second. I can see how that could look to some people.  

 

One thing I noticed about how the EPs have talked about the death, is they put the emphasis on the Team not Oliver. I'm wondering if Laurel dies as a result of the entire Team being distracted. Felicity is off at Palmer. Oliver and Diggle are focused on (or at odds over) Andy. Thea is dealing with Malcolm. Maybe Laurel doesn't have back up. 

 

It's not possible to control how other will react, but already, what I'm seeing is that the team isn't a functional team without the tent poles of Oliver, Diggle and Felicity in their relative positions.  Weaken any of them and the team falls apart.  They can limp along but it's only a matter of time.  Even Curtis last week was pretty much a Felicity by product.  It was his worry for Felicity that brought him to the team in the first place. 

See the problem with me is that what if they ask Felicity to help but she refuses? *sigh* 

She'd never refuse out right to something imminent but it is possible that Laurel could make a request that seems low level to them both and Felicity is too busy but again, I can't see how it really is Felicity's responsibility if she's made it clear that she is doing her own thing now.  The team does have other resources they can contact.  I just can't see how there can be any legitimate claims blaming Felicity.  As far as I can tell, random blame is already falling on Felicity and Olicity, so yeah, I've reached a zen stage of ease with just about anything.   

[wonderwall]

Or they don't ask her at all because they think she won't help? I'm not fan of either option.

 

Honestly, it kind of bugs me that we have a big moment with Dig and Felicity may not be apart of it. Granted its not like they would interact if Felicity was still on the Team. 

 

Grrrrr. I'm butter. 

 

I'm butter too. And it's not the kind where you can put it in coffee and it miraculously becomes good for you (seriously I have trouble believing BR when he says this),... it's the kind that clogs your arteries T_T

[looptab]

I was kinda hoping that Oliver is talking to Felicity when he says that the team is falling apart. so I'll keep hoping that she won't deny her help if he asks her, but then it's too late. But yeah, not a fan of this development.

[BkWurm1]

One thing I noticed about how the EPs have talked about the death, is they put the emphasis on the Team not Oliver. I'm wondering if Laurel dies as a result of the entire Team being distracted. Felicity is off at Palmer. Oliver and Diggle are focused on (or at odds over) Andy. Thea is dealing with Malcolm. Maybe Laurel doesn't have back up.

 

Revisiting this in particular. If Laurel doesn't have back up, that means that she should not go after whoever she'd be going after until she does have back up.  It WOULD be a case of Laurel acting recklessly. If she's off doing what seems not to need back up then she wouldn't have had it whether or not the team was fractured anyway.  Everyone is going to second guess all their choices and play the if only game but even Oliver knows it's not his fault.  I can't help believe that is that case for all of them.  It will not be their fault, but they will still feel a responsibility. 

[wonderwall]

Revisiting this in particular. If Laurel doesn't have back up, that means that she should not go after whoever she'd be going after until she does have back up.  It WOULD be a case of Laurel acting recklessly. If she's off doing what seems not to need back up then she wouldn't have had it whether or not the team was fractured anyway.  Everyone is going to second guess all their choices and play the if only game but even Oliver knows it's not his fault.  I can't help believe that is that case for all of them.  It will not be their fault, but they will still feel a responsibility. 

 

You're keeping me sane and I love you for that

[lemotomato]

I can see it now-- all the reviewers that talked about how great Curtis was in last week's episode, predicting that he could replace Felicity on the team and she's on her way off the show, doing a 180 and moaning about how Felicity could have made a difference and that her absence is to blame for Laurel dying. 

[wonderwall]

I can see it now-- all the reviewers that talked about how great Curtis was in last week's episode, predicting that he could replace Felicity on the team and she's on her way off the show, doing a 180 and moaning about how Felicity could have made a difference and that her absence is to blame for Laurel dying. 

Annnd now I'm back to worrying :p

[BkWurm1]

Somehow I don't see the majority of reviewers really that quick to go looking for who is to assign blame beyond the one directly responsible.  I have a hard time thinking most of them will need that much closure on a character so many were meh about this year. 

 

I'm predicting more reviews that center around the bold choice and how this is a clear statement from the producers that this is their show and anything can happen and then some spec about what could be coming our way.  Probably a number of them jumping on the "well now that I think of it, she is the most logical choice" train.  I'm sure I will read some reviews that no matter what happens will blame Felicity, but then I don't put any stock in those.  

Edited April 4, 2016 by BkWurm1

[lemotomato]

Annnd now I'm back to worrying :p

I'm sorry! Listen to BkWurm1, not me! I'm a worrywart :P

[looptab]

Revisiting this in particular. If Laurel doesn't have back up, that means that she should not go after whoever she'd be going after until she does have back up.  It WOULD be a case of Laurel acting recklessly. If she's off doing what seems not to need back up then she wouldn't have had it whether or not the team was fractured anyway.  Everyone is going to second guess all their choices and play the if only game but even Oliver knows it's not his fault.  I can't help believe that is that case for all of them.  It will not be their fault, but they will still feel a responsibility. 

It's kinda poetic. Her going the same way she started - going out there alone - cause if she doesn't take care of people, no one will.

Edited April 4, 2016 by looptab

[BkWurm1]

You're keeping me sane and I love you for that

Either Laurel is incompetent and she should never have been allowed on the team - which then would be on the team's head - or we have to allow her enough respect to make her own choices.  The show says she's a full fledged equal. That she can take care of herself.  That she makes her own choices.  Either she does or she doesn't. 

 

 

I can see it now-- all the reviewers that talked about how great Curtis was in last week's episode, predicting that he could replace Felicity on the team and she's on her way off the show, doing a 180 and moaning about how Felicity could have made a difference and that her absence is to blame for Laurel dying. 

I can see a lot these same reviewers being the ones that are the most surprised, so shock and amazement at not seeing the "game changer" coming would probably dominate their musings. 

[Password]

Eh. It would only be Felicity's fault if she flaked on TA whilst still being on the team. Kind of like when Oliver flaked on Diggle in season 1 to go help Laurel. 

 

Felicity's made it clear she's no longer helping them. You can't blame a person who has left a job for things falling apart in a company. They should make a plan.

[bijoux]

Thinking about surprising offer for Laurel, what if it's from Ruve? She already approached Alex last week? What if she sort of goes for Laurel next and Laurel decides to go undercover like Oliver was contemplating earlier in the season? There is that mayoral race set from this episode, so Ruve could certainly be involved in Laurel's downfall. She's obviously not the main culprit seeing as she isn't a man, but that doesn't preclude her from playing a role.

 

ETA: What are your guesses on when we're getting,"I thought of you"? It's got to be some time in the next three episodes, because they were in production for 420 when SA shared that. I doubt it will be this one. I'm not even sure if it'll be 19 since that's the aftermath and flashbacks to Tommy's funeral, so likely episode 20?

Edited April 4, 2016 by bijoux

[doesntworkonwood]

I wonder if KCs going to post that picture of her in a fridge again

[AyChihuahua]

I wonder if KCs going to post that picture of her in a fridge again

I completely forgot about that. Yeah, that was so totally assy.

Edited April 4, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Sakura12]

I wonder if KCs going to post that picture of her in a fridge again

 

Wait, what? When did that happen?