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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Brandon Routh has retweeted the following Warner Bros. tweet:

Warner Bros. @WarnerBrosEnt  ·  10h
Yep. RT @DCComics: .@BrandonJRouth will be joining the next season of #ARROW as none other than the Atom! Details: http://bit.ly/1pVd75h

BR then goes on to respond and post a series of related tweets and pics, including:

Brandon Routh @BrandonJRouth  ·  16h
Thank you for all the @CW_Arrow love! Excited to originate, nearly, (JLA pilot ‘97) #RayPalmerTheAtom for live-action!

He sounds very nice and very excited to be joining Arrow.  He may be like Colton Haynes (Roy Harper) for me - I didn't like the character of Roy at first and found him bland, but CH's enthusiasm for the show and likeability off-screen made me like the Roy character more.
 

https://twitter.com/BrandonJRouth

Edited by tv echo
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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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quarks

quarks

(edited)

The spinoffs I've heard discussed are still Birds of Prey, Suicide Squad and Young Justice, but since that was last weekend before the Brandon Routh casting announcement, it's possible the discussion just didn't have time to catch up :)  It's also possible that Atom could pop up on the Justice League movie if that movie ends up getting connected to Arrow/Flash - despite any potential awkwardness of putting a former Superman next to Henry Cavill in that film.

 

@SleepDeprived, I've just assumed that Oliver will sleep with Amanda since so far he's had a romantic/sexual interest in pretty much every straight/bisexual woman not related to him who has shown up on the show except for Joanna, Carly, Lyla, Jean Loring, Sin (assuming she's straight/bisexual), the cop that was all "oooh, Sara's so heroic" who's had a couple of scenes (ditto), Kate Spencer (ditto), China White (ditto), the gorgeous woman that Moira sat him next to at a dinner party who had no lines, and the various newscasters. In a couple cases there's been age issues (Jean Loring, Sin) or only being there to kick people's butt, not ask them out issues (China White) or a Diggle love interest issue (Carly, Lyla), so Oliver refraining from falling for Joanna, who he barely interacted with on screen, that one cop who I don't think he's met on screen yet, a random extra, and Kate Spencer is not really a great indication that he'll avoid his OOOH, SHE'S HOT, LET'S BANG pattern of the rest of the show. So although yes, for a hot billionaire, Oliver has actually been relatively celibate, the pattern has generally been for him to hook up with the available women on the show, so I'm expecting him to hook up with Amanda or Katana or both in the past. Though I'd love to be proved wrong. Especially with Katana since I really don't want the membership of Birds of Prey to be based on "Oh, you slept with Oliver Queen? Here's your membership card."  That one may be just me. 

Edited by quarks
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KirkB

KirkB

(edited)
Though I'd love to be proved wrong. Especially with Katana since I really don't want the membership of Birds of Prey to be based on "Oh, you slept with Oliver Queen? Here's your membership card."

 

Sadly though, because both would be CW programs and BoP would stem from a show centered around Oliver, this may actually BE one of the prerequisites.

Edited by KirkB
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writersblock51

writersblock51

 

He sounds very nice and very excited to be joining Arrow.  He may be like Colton Haynes (Roy Harper) for me - I didn't like the character of Roy at first and found him bland, but CH's enthusiasm for the show and likeability off-screen made me like the Roy character more.

I've no doubt that BR's off screen personality is engaging - and he possibly can pull off this role, too.  I'm glad he's enthused, too, and seems to be off a good start, social media wise.  His tweet does give us an indication that Ray's story is an origin one.  So that's encouraging, I think.

 

I like the theory that someone posted that perhaps Ray and Felicity knew each other before.  That would be nice, too, and could kill 2 birds with one stone - another peek into her past AND get the 2 of them sort of established as aquaintances.

 

I'm assuming EBR and BR did a chemistry test, too, so I'm hoping we see a nice connection on screen. 

 

then again...

 

This season is starting to give off the distinct whiff of trainwreck. Laurel Blank Canarying it up, Shaw 2.0, Baby Daddy Ollie, Devon Aoki as Katana (did she learn how to act since Sin City?), the inevitable Ollie/Waller hook up, the Ollie/Katana hook up, the Ollie/Baby Mama hook up, the looming possibility of another Ollie/Laurel hook up since she's a superhero too now (and as such will be the only one who truly understands him. In her bones), and on and on.

 

Yeah, this.

 

And if Oliver hooks up with Katana, I'd be disgusted.  She's married, for one thing.  If her husband dies, then her time as a widow - in terms of the length of time covered over a season - isn't very long.  I truly hope that Oliver has begun to mature enough to have some self respect, respect for women and more self control. 

 

Repeat and rinse for Waller.  The idea of the 2 of them - based solely on my dislike of Waller's representation and the actress' portrayal of her - is not appealing to me in the least.

 

Finally, I do not think it's an accident that the Atom is showing up on the show, as Marvel's the Ant Man is in the news (though it seems to be Marvel's problem child at the moment).  DC has this weird knack of shadowing Marvel when it comes to movies & TV.   Arrow seems to be the exception right now.

 

Personally, I liked Ant Man (and Wasp).  Hank Pym was a founder of the Avengers, in the comics, at least.  I kept waiting for him - or a mention of him - through the Marvel movies.  I knew why Spider-man wasn't mentioned (studio stuff) but why not Ant Man?  I have my concerns about the upcoming movie but that's because the focus seems to be less on Hank and more on Scott Lang.  Sorry for the tangent!

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

Personally, I liked Ant Man (and Wasp). Hank Pym was a founder of the Avengers, in the comics, at least.

Speaking of Pym, I actually wondered if they would go the Pym Particles route, rather than the White Dwarf Star Meteorite. I was looking up Atom's abilities, it's more than just shrinking, he could use his suit to increase his mass/make him stronger, fly, go invisible. I think they can adapt the strength and "flying" to Arrow. We already had strength with Mirakuru and instead of flying they could have the suit lower mass/distort gravity so he could jump really high, etc.

I'm going to be really naive here. I'm going to say the Oliver doesn't sleep with Katana or Waller in Hong Kong but it's possible that he hooks up with Katana in Starling.

Assuming Sandra Hawk is a romantic possibility and not just the baby mama (and frankly I'm not sure I buy her as a potential LI). We'd have an Oliver/Felicity/Ray triangle (which EBR teased), possible Katana, possible (shudder) L/O attempt and baby mama....that's a whole lot of LIs in an already packed season.

Given that the theme seems to be family/fathers/parents I'm guessing Sandra's story will be more about Oliver/Connor than any potential romance. I'm also guessing that whatever Ray's tragic past is, it will fit into the family/father theme.

S3 plots so far:

Merlyn/Thea

Thea becoming Speedy? Artemis? Dark Archer 2.0?

Oliver/Connor

Getting QC back

Diggle/baby, HIVE

Felicity/Parent (backstory)

Ray/Atom

Oliver/Felicity/Ray

Sara/Nyssa/Sin (whatever they're doing) LoA?

Katana/Maseo

Hong Kong - Oliver losing his humanity

Starling - Oliver regaining his humanity

Roy becoming Arsenal, Amnesia (Felicity tied into this one)

Vertigo 2.0 (Big Bad?)

Villain of the Week

Flash Crossover

Laurel becoming (gag) Black Canary

Did I miss anything? That's a whole heck of a lot and who knows what they'll do when they go to break the back half of S3.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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writersblock51

writersblock51

(edited)

Ugh, I'd completely forgotten the Sandra Clark stuff. 

 

Yes, S3 is already packed.

 

I think some things are going to be rushed or backburnered to the point that they are dropped altogether:

Diggle/baby, HIVE
Felicity/Parent (backstory)

Sara/Nyssa/Sin (whatever they're doing) LoA?

Villain of the Week (which I would actually prefer as a minimal thing this season)

 

Just my take on things.

 

I think Ray, Hong Kong, Connor and Laurel=BC will be the biggest stories, with Thea/Malcolm, Roy, triangles and getting QC back as the middle stories.

 

Depending on how many episodes Vertigo is scheduled for will determine if it's a big, middle or little story.  Or, a la Slade, woven among many stories to the final few episodes to culminate in the season finale.

 

I think the Flash crossover stuff is largely dependent on how the Flash does on its own, once the pilot is aired and done.

Edited by writersblock51
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wonderwall

wonderwall

I hate to be cynical but do we really think this is going to happen? I wouldn't mind but this is Oliver/Arrow's story. I know the EPs like EBR but are they really going to spend time writing for her outside of Oliver/Team Arrow?

The way I see it is that this is the Arrow's journey in becoming a hero, and a hero is only as good as his/her confidantes. I feel as though that Olicity scene when Felicity tells Oliver to not stop fighting would've been much stronger if we knew more about where she came from and the hardships she went through. So yes, while Oliver should always remain the main focus, I see no harm in learning more about the people Oliver feels closest too because it's their story as well. Oliver would be nothing if it weren't for Felicity and Digg. So yes, bring on Digg handling a baby, bring on Felicity handling a life outside of the Arrow, because with Digg's sass and Felicity's everything even the most mundane tasks they do would be entertaining to watch!

Also I'd also like to bring up that we don't know for sure that Ray will be a love interest for Felicity, it's a possibility but we're not 100% sure. To be honest, I'd much rather see Felicity being single and independent and trying to build her own business empire. To me that's more interesting than having a boyfriend... I mean, I'm pretty sure Walter would help Felicity monetarily and maybe Ray could also help with all his intelligence and Oliver can sit there and look pretty and maybe be the one that feels insecure for once (I feel like that would be a great thing to explore. While we've seen Oliver as the Arrow feel insecure, we haven't really seen Oliver the man be insecure). 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

The Flashback stuff is never the A plot so I don't think Hong Hong will be a major storyline.

Also, until I hear someone other than KC talk about Laurel being BC in S3 I'm going to assume it's a minor plot. I'm sorry, I don't care what KC says about Laurel being totes ready, it took 6 years for Oliver and Sara to get to their S2 levels. It's taken Roy 1.5 years and he's still not Arsenal (I'm betting that costume reveal will be in 3.09) and he'd still only be a protege/sidekick.

I will be horribly pissed off if they don't give Felicity her backstory. They already pushed it off from S2 because her "light" story would have been out of place with all the "darkness" in the back half. During the European WB Press tour, EBR mentioned that she was promised one parent in S3.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Orion

Orion

 

Speaking of inevitable, why do most think it is set in stone that Oliver will end up sleeping with Waller?

 

I'm like Pavlov's dogs I've been conditioned that when a beautiful woman walks on screen and her name is not Felicity, Oliver will sleep with her. Also, he's the only one that calls her Amanda, IIRC, everyone else calls her Waller. 

 

If they are going to develop Oliver has feelings for Felicity than his relationships will be based in the past because Oliver has to hook up with a few woman per season (eye roll). I can see what Statsgirl said happening, L/O get together again only for the writers to end it permanently. The writers have to know that if they get Olicity together and have them break up so Oliver can go back to Laurel there will be a mass exodus away from this show. I don't think the EPs are ready to let go of their GA/BC yet but having Laurel be BC and Oliver's love interest in one season will be a show killer imo. So if they want to put them together to put the final nail in that relationship coffin it will be next year after they see what fan reaction is to her becoming BC. I still believe that this is the make it or break it year for Laurel. Either she becomes the BC and wins people over now that she's involved in the A plot or they will cut their losses and move on. But that's probably more wishful thinking.  

 

To be fair with how much we know is going to be in S3, Arrow chews through plot like I've never seen before, sometimes for good and sometimes for bad. I remember thinking about the spoilers we had for the finale and thinking no way they were going to close all those plot threads. For the most part they managed to successfully cram all of that in.

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writersblock51

writersblock51

@wonderwall, I think there's been cast comments and a little PR stuff about Ray being, among other things, a LI for Felicity.  I don't know if that counts as 1005, though, so you could be right. 

 

Interesting about Walter - I'd forgotten about him.  I think he'd be more than happy to help Felicity in any way she needed.  But would she ask him for help?  I'd like to think so.  He'd probably also help Oliver, too.  I wonder if we'll see Walter at all in S3.  He could certainly come in for a few minutes in a few episodes and advise them.  I'm still ticked that the show handled the Queen Family Financial Disaster without Walter AND with no logic.

 

@Morrigan, I hope you're right.  My list was not my wishlist but rather what I think could happen.  I am also hoping Hong Kong isn't a top story but I think, with the casting of Katana and Maseo, it could very well be, regardless of what percentage flashbacks have taken up in the past.

 

I also fundamentally hope that Laurel isn't becoming BC but I'm also cynical enough to think it's a done deal, even if it makes little sense.

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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

(edited)

I'm like Pavlov's dogs I've been conditioned that when a beautiful woman walks on screen and her name is not Felicity, Oliver will sleep with her.

 

Classical conditioning by the Arrow writers. I get it. And thank you for the funny breakdown of the probability of Oliver banging any woman within his periphery, @quarks. But I guess I'll join as the naive outliers then, since I just don't see Waller sleeping with Oliver. Oliver has only slept with women who wanted to sleep with him, too. From Waller's perspective, there wouldn't really be anything that she can gain from sleeping with flashback-Oliver other than a hot body to warm her sheets. She already has all the power in their Hong Kong flashback relationship. And she just doesn't strike me as someone who will have liaisons with 'the help'. She, also, seems to only care for her red Louboutins and blowing things or people up all the damn time so I don't think a tumble in the sheets with Oliver is anything she'd be interested in, if it's unrelated to her agenda.

 

I'm also taking back my speculation that Oliver will sleep with Katana since I forgot that she'll be married to a very much alive Maseo, flashback-time-wise. Pre-island Oliver might not be too bothered about sleeping with a married woman but I'd like to think that post-year-2-island Oliver has grown a bit and won't be the douchebag that sleeps with his new mentor's wife.

 

Ah, hiatus. When we discuss the probabilities of Oliver's Dickventures of Future Past.

Edited by SleepDeprived
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Starfish35

Starfish35

Also, he's the only one that calls her Amanda, IIRC, everyone else calls her Waller.

This is why I think he will have slept with her. I'm not happy about it, and I'd be thrilled to be proven wrong, but I will be a little surprised if they don't go there.

I don't think he will have slept with Katana. She's married - I just don't see them going there. Pre-wreck Ollie might have, but not this Oliver.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I suspect a Waller/Oliver hook up as well.  No, it won't be about romance.  Waller will have had some kind of agenda even if it was just scratching an itch.  Just hoping for it to not EVER repeat in the present. 

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TanyaKay

TanyaKay

I like the theory that someone posted that perhaps Ray and Felicity knew each other before.  That would be nice, too, and could kill 2 birds with one stone - another peek into her past AND get the 2 of them sort of established as acquaintances.

 

Considering that Ray Palmer is a scientist and a former professor in the comics, may be he was one of the TAs that Felicity had interacted with or was friends with back in MIT - you know while she was working on her bachelors, he was working on his doctorate or something. That could be such a great way to start that story as he is the guy Felicity already knows and trusts - at least academically and intellectually - if not personally.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

Considering that Ray Palmer is a scientist and a former professor in the comics, may be he was one of the TAs that Felicity had interacted with or was friends with back in MIT - you know while she was working on her bachelors, he was working on his doctorate or something. That could be such a great way to start that story as he is the guy Felicity already knows and trusts - at least academically and intellectually - if not personally.

Yeah that was my suggestion based on Emergency Awesome's thought that Ray/Felicity might have known each other before S3. I think it would be the best choice, Felicity/Ray could have met in MIT (undergrad/post grad studies). This would circumvent the whole how dare she! aspect

Edited by Morrigan2575
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writersblock51

writersblock51

(edited)

If the show doesn't go that route with Ray and Felicity now, I'm going to be profoundly disappointed and angry. 

 

I think posters here come up with far more interesting and well thought out plots and details than the show does most of the time.

 

Oliver and Waller - I really really really hope not. 

 

 

Ah, hiatus. When we discuss the probabilities of Oliver's Dickventures of Future Past.

This just made my day.

 

ETA: continuing a thought from the Hopes & Fears thread, I wonder if we'll meet either of Felicity's parents (as EBR and many fans would like) in S3.  I know the showrunners said they pushed Felicity's family story to S3 to do it justice (or something to that effect) but now I'm not sure they'll have time to do that. 

 

However, if they intend to have her father be in S3. I've heard speculation that the new Vertigo will be her dad.  Age-wise, he could fit.   

Edited by writersblock51
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Sunshine

Sunshine

(edited)

 Oliver's baby mama is in Central City.  SA pitched an idea emphasizing this.  I believe AK said this is the one they ran with.  Don't know when it comes into play but it will be at least one crossover.

Edited by Sunshine
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TanyaKay

TanyaKay

 Oliver's baby mama is in Central City.  SA pitched an idea emphasizing this.  I believe AK said this is the one they ran with.  Don't know when it comes into play but it will be at least one crossover.

 

oh god I am so not interested in the whole baby mama story.

Too soap opera for my taste.

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JayKay

JayKay

Ughhh. Rain, rain go away. It's been raining violent superpowered men in that city for half a season. Maybe the midseason finale title will be "The Storm." And we can get a few character-development focused episodes in between? Please?

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

Ughhh. Rain, rain go away. It's been raining violent superpowered men in that city for half a season. Maybe the midseason finale title will be "The Storm." And we can get a few character-development focused episodes in between? Please?

The only thing i think about when i see an episode being called "The Storm" are the last George Clooney episodes on ER 15 years ago.. that title will forever be connected to those two episodes, it just feels off and wrong seeing it as a title for any other show.

Edited by foreverevolving
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statsgirl

statsgirl

Since SA said that season 3 begins with a bang, I'm guessing The Calm doesn't last for very long.  (They start shooting tomorrow and finish on the 18th. That's pretty fast for something as complicated as this show.)

 

Pavlov's dogs salivated at the prospect of getting something yummy.  Oliver's bedroom antics are something that I gird my loins for rather than look forward to.  However, since Olivier is the stand-in got vicarious pleasure for various members of the writing staff and audience, for the I'd rather have him sleeping with Waller in the past than Kanata and definitely more than anyone in the present, unless it's Laurel to sink that ship dead.

 

I'm going to be really naive here. I'm going to say the Oliver doesn't sleep with Katana or Waller in Hong Kong but it's possible that he hooks up with Katana in Starling.

Now that Oliver has indicated that he cares for Felicity,  they have to be very careful who he sleeps with in the present. Sara was passable since they were together in the past and comfort-mates in the present and whether he cared for Felicity was still questionable.  But from now on, any new person he sleeps with, even if it was someone from the past, is going to cause damage to the Olicity ship and and any audience disgust will probably rebound on Oliver.

I suspect a Waller/Oliver hook up as well.  No, it won't be about romance.  Waller will have had some kind of agenda even if it was just scratching an itch.  Just hoping for it to not EVER repeat in the present. 

 

Yes, I can easily imagine that they got together in Hong Kong. She likes power without remorse and she's got a pretty new toy in Oliver, although I imagine it would be uncomfortable to sleep with her, hard and spikey as she is.  As Orion said, he's the only one who calls  her Amanda.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Oliver sleeping with Waller would not be a surprise - it would also explain why they cast a young attractive woman as Waller.  In the present, I can see Oliver sleeping with a number of women because he's a young attractive guy who doesn't want to get involved with a woman he could really care about.

 

I'm willing to give Brandon Routh a chance because, as we've seen, previous work is no indication of how an actor or actress will do on Arrow.  I've read that, based on her previous acting roles, Katie Cassidy came into the show with high expectations, but ended up disappointing as Laurel.  (I now realize that I must've seen KC in both Supernatural and the movie Taken, but I don't remember her at all.)  Not that long ago, I saw Stephen Amell in a Hallmark movie in which he was very bland and unimpressive (When Calls the Heart with Maggie Grace).  I would never have guessed that he could play a character like Oliver Queen/Arrow so well.  

 

Sometimes it's a matter of finding the right role or the right chemistry with another actor.  I remember watching a movie called While You Were Sleeping with Sandra Bullock some years back.  Before that movie, I always saw Bill Pullman as bland and not leading man material.  But in that movie, he had chemistry with Sandra and showed some sex appeal for the first time (in my opinion).  More recently, there's Nathan Fillion.  Before Firefly, he played the unlikeable jerk ex-boyfriend of Alicia Silverstone in Blast from the Past (with Brendan Fraser) - not leading man material.  But in Firefly, he became the Captain, a strong leading man with great sex appeal.

Edited by tv echo
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FAU

FAU

Twitter post of the Arrow cast having dinner did not include Caity Lotz. Another bad sign.

Maybe she is the one not in the first few episodes and that's why, but hopes fading.

 

It's pretty obvious what's happening even if they didn't kill her off.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

That doesn't look like Barrowman to me, I thought it might have been BamBam

 

I also don't see PB in the picture, he's a series regular and we know he's back in Vancouver because he mentioned it on twitter (back in Arrow country).  We know that Katrina Law is going up to shoot soon, probably for 3.02 which means that CL/Sara is back in 3.02 (possibly the very end of 3.01).  Pretty sure Thea/Merlyn aren't in the first 3 episodes of S3.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Velocity23

Velocity23

(edited)

I remember he and Stephen shaved their head at the same time and he tweeted that he is back in Arrow country. Think the guy in black shirt is Jake Coburn, co-executive producer, basing on the fact that Emily mentioned him in her tweet. 

Edited by Velocity23
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I didn't recognize PB either.  The pic posted by Velocity23 above looks slightly different from the pic posted by SA on his Facebook page (see link above).  In the Facebook pic, KC's head is tilted downward and she has demon eyes, SA's and WH's heads are more hidden, and the guy on the end has a bigger grin.  Compare the two pics side by side.  

 

I guess the guy on the end could be Greg Berlanti - but that pose (with a big grin and arms widespread around others) just seems like such a Barrowman thing to do.

 

Has KC always been so busty?

Edited by tv echo
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Sunshine

Sunshine

So, if Oliver calling Waller "Amanda" is a sign that they were bed buddies does that mean she and Diggle were too?  Diggle called her Amanda in 2.21 or 2.22 when F&D  went to her for help in locating Oliver.

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KirkB

KirkB

Since this Waller is presumably going to be different from the one in the comics, is it not possible Waller could use her sexuality to her advantage and may have slept with Oliver for...reasons? And for all we know, she and Diggle could have hooked up before she became The Wall.

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Velocity23

Velocity23

Holy crap so Oliver could have slept with the same women that Tommy did, the same woman that his dad had an affair with and he might have banged the same women that Diggle might know more intimately. Oh and he and Nyssa both had a relationship with Sara. I just hope Oliver never slept with Lyla. x,x 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I think EBR was always pretty fit/toned. But then I can also imagine being friends with Caity Lotz makes you feel like the laziest person on Earth and want to head to a gym asap. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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I remember she gave an interview and she talked about how much she enjoyed working out (I think this was last Nov/Dec).  I know Colton mentioned in one of those WB International Press Interviews they did over the summer, that EBR was in great shape/very fit and that she could compete in the Olympics.  

 

I guess I just never noticed her arms being so defined before, they're pretty impressive

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Velocity23

Velocity23

I remember there was an interview with Self in October 2013 where there was mentioned that she grew up doing gymnastics and also does hot yoga, am i guessing she added more to her exercising regime. 

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