S04.E04: The Slender Threads That Bind Us Here

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Good point - we saw Juliette's drunk buddy answer the hotel phone, not her cell phone.

[Bringonthedrama]

Re: Scarlett/Rayna. OK, good. I'm glad to have been wrong about that.

I think Maddie probably has no idea what alcoholism even really means for Deacon--and by default, herself, Rayna, Daphne, Scarlett--so I can see how she'd just back away slowly and run away from him. But yes. The fact that she didn't immediately call Rayna crying and worried and scared makes absolutely no sense to me. 

I think it makes sense, given that Dad #1 just went to prison, Maddie has put Dad #2 Deacon on a pedestal, told her Mom (before the R+D reunion) that she wanted them to be together, and will say Teddy isn't her real dad whenever she gets angry. She's scared because she's seen a glimpse of the violent/dangerous alcoholic behavior in Deacon now, and may be worried or afraid of the fallout/consequences if she tells Rayna  - will they fight? will Mom tell him to leave? will he get angry at being called out, and decide to leave them? 

[madam magpie]

I think it makes sense, given that Dad #1 just went to prison, Maddie has put Dad #2 Deacon on a pedestal, told her Mom (before the R+D reunion) that she wanted them to be together, and will say Teddy isn't her real dad whenever she gets angry. She's scared because she's seen a glimpse of the violent/dangerous alcoholic behavior in Deacon now, and may be worried or afraid of the fallout/consequences if she tells Rayna - will they fight? will Mom tell him to leave? will he get angry at being called out, and decide to leave them?

That's just a guess, though. There's no evidence from the story that Maddie feels this way. It's never come up. She's never expressed worry about Deacon drinking again or his fighting with Rayna or his losing control or what happens if those things happen. Realistically, they should all be concerned about that for different reasons. This saccharine, convenient attitude of Rayna's that she suddenly fully trusts Deacon's sobriety doesn't ring true for me at all. She should be confronting what she'll do if he does drink again, not acting like she's 100% sure he won't. Will she leave him? Have they had that conversation? Has she had that talk with Maddie? Has Rayna or Deacon talked to the girls about what they should do if they're faced with Deacon drinking (or in this case, being a dry drunk)? I have no idea. (I do skim a lot, though, so let me know if I missed it.)

We shouldn't have to try and read the characters' minds. All we know about how Maddie feels is what we've been shown, and like I said...maybe next week, all will be explained. But right now, it's completely ambiguous, and this show doesn't follow through a lot of the time, so my expectations are low. I hope to be wrong!

Edited October 16, 2015 by madam magpie

[Clemgo3165]

Actually the trust in his sobriety does ring true to me at this point. He's already killed his own liver with drinking, now his sister died in the process of giving him part of hers. He might have to break a whole house full of furniture, but he's not going to drink.

I'm thinking we'll see some explanation next week, but my guess is Maddie is scared and heartbroken with what she witnessed. She was able to hold her "real" Dad over Teddy, but she can't do that anymore. It also brings in questions as to where she comes from. Hopefully the writers have taken that opportunity, but who knows?

[madam magpie]

I think that trust is misplaced, though, and Rayna's done it so many times that I find it hard to believe the habit is gone. The romantic approach is that the recovered alcoholic can just be trusted because logic dictates it or because he really wants to be sober. Most people get burned by that. The ugly reality is that the struggle never leaves, and since Rayna's not being included in the ugly reality and they don't even acknowledge it to one another, to me, she looks either like a liar or still living in a dream world. There's no way Deacon himself is 100% sure he won't drink. We see that pretty clearly, I think, given his behavior. He's doing every thing he knows how to prevent it and is succeeding so far. But he doesn't know it for sure. It's one day at time for him. I want Rayna to be smarter than thinking she knows it.

One of my favorite conversations was Rayna/Maddie when Deacon was blowing Maddie off because he was sick and wouldn't tell anyone. Maddie was baffled, hurt, confused, and Rayna said, "He's an alcoholic, honey." That's exactly right. All of Deacon's behavior is consistent with his addiction, and for Rayna/Deacon to make it (realistically), she's got to be aware of that always. Sometimes, I think she really is. Other times, she's still painfully naive. If I believed the writers were doing something subtle with her character with that, I'd dig it. But I don't think they are. I think they struggle with anticipating how people really behave so she's inconsistent.

That said, I'm pretty confident Deacon won't drink because there's no place for it in the story anymore. But the characters don't know that. And I do hope we get an explanation of what Maddie's feeling AND that it isn't resolved in five minutes. Deacon wrecked a room and punched a mirror! That should linger for awhile.

Edited October 16, 2015 by madam magpie

[Clemgo3165]

I liked that conversation too. But I don't have any experience with addicts or addictive behaviors, so I don't really know what really rings true.

I do think Rayna is confident in his sobriety, for many reasons, not least of which is that he's been able to maintain that for the majority of the last 15-16 years with one notable exception. He's struggling now, but she sees he's doing the right things, and doing them of his own accord, so I see no harm in expressing some confidence that he wasn't out drinking when he made that comment. He was lashing out at her again at that point, pushing her away, and she diffused the situation by saying that she knew he wasn't. He was surprised and disarmed by that, apparently expecting a battle and not getting one. He started opening up at that point so I think she made the right choice.

I can't imagine that some sort of "what if" doesn't lurk in Rayna's mind, and Deacon's for that matter. But all they can do is move forward day by day.

[madam magpie]

I do think Rayna is confident in his sobriety, for many reasons, not least of which is that he's been able to maintain that for the majority of the last 15-16 years with one notable exception. He's struggling now, but she sees he's doing the right things, and doing them of his own accord, so I see no harm in expressing some confidence that he wasn't out drinking when he made that comment. He was lashing out at her again at that point, pushing her away, and she diffused the situation by saying that she knew he wasn't. He was surprised and disarmed by that, apparently expecting a battle and not getting one. He started opening up at that point so I think she made the right choice.

Oh most definitely she made the right choice...if it was a choice at all. See, that's the subtlety I don't trust. What I initially thought was going on in that last scene was Rayna choosing to lie when Deacon reacted so poorly to her asking where he'd been. He felt the accusation and snarled a bit. Rather than push it, Rayna lied a little to diffuse the situation. That's totally fine and realistic, and it worked. But I don't know...I'm not sure that's what the writers intended. Everything I've read has people saying it was this lovely romantic moment wherein Rayna was telling Deacon she trusted him and he was touched by that. Granted, I have a cold, dead heart sometimes, but I thought he looked at her like he didn't believe her, but like you said, was disarmed by her not fighting back, like she was consciously breaking the cycle they were used to getting into. But these writers are baaaaaad, so now I think we aren't meant to see it like that.

Rayna's complete faith in his sobriety came out of nowhere for me. Even as recently as the middle of last season, she still didn't trust it, per that conversation with Maddie. Then suddenly Deacon told her he had liver cancer and she completely changed her tune. That's totally not believable to me. Cancer might scare you straight on some level, but you'd still struggle every day to beat the addiction, and you might fail. Think of smokers who have throat cancer and smoke through their trach tubes. I know someone who actually did that! Addiction isn't bound by logic at all. It's insanity.

Edited October 16, 2015 by madam magpie

[kathybgd]

I'm over Deacon turning to the bottle whenever life shits on him. I'm over the shellfish Juliette and her stupid friend. Also, who cares that photos were taken of Avery in the park with another woman? I wish he would move on,Juliette's storyline is boring, we know how it all turns out. I really just want to mention the poor little baby that plays Cadence? That's her name? (dumb) Anyway the real parents ought to be ashamed of themselves the way that disturbed little baby litteraly is being handled! Its hard to watch and she's NOT a good little actress, playing the part of a screaming disturbed baby needing her mommy..... she IS disturbed! SAD and abusive.

[thuganomics85]

Well, at least Deacon hasn't fallen off the wagon, so that's good.  Of course, instead, he's treated poor Scarlett like shit, being snippy with most everyone, and then trashing his house.  So, yeah, things aren't that good.  I hope Maddie tells Rayna or someone else what happened, because Deacon is clearly not in a right frame of mind.  And, of course, he ends up with some kind of sanity image of Beverly in his head, and seems to forget all about her negative qualities.  Even then, how does he know Bev would want to remain braindead?  He doesn't.  I know a lot of it is grief, so I don't hate him for it, but he really isn't making himself look good at the moment.

 

But, hey, at least he isn't Juliette-levels.  No surprise, this entire arc is even more disturbing now that I know Hayden Panettiere is actually suffering PPD in real-life. It just makes all of this come off icky and stupid.  So, now she's popping pills and drinking even more.  And thinks Avery is cheating on her with Emily.  Great.  Just great.  I keep saying that I hope she hits rock bottom soon, but with this show, I think they could drag this out as long as possible, before she ever sees the light.

 

Marcus is now in Highway 65, and already creating buzz.  On one hand, he seems pretty vain, is impulsive, and basically looks like he's going to do his own thing, and will be hard to handle.  On the other hand, he sees Avery's talent, so he's got that going for him.

 

The stuff with Caleb bored me.  He's just to hear to keep Gunnar/Scarlett apart, and it's only a matter of time before Scarlett decides she finds him dull or something, and ends it.

 

Will gets a selfie with Rayna and is supportive towards Layla, so this was a good episode for him at least.

 

Jeff and Layla are still strangely disturbing, but sometimes almost nice at the same time.  Have no idea how that has happened.

 

Cool to see Zoey again and hear that she's doing well.  I still hope to check in on Coleman again one day.

[Soup333]

I assumed that when Juliette called Emily from her new phone, she blocked the number so it showed up as "unknown caller." She probably made that the default setting so that no one but Jeff and her new asskisser would have her number.

 

This makes sense. Only question now is why is Emily answering those types of calls in 2015?

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Nashville Plays Cyrano De Bore-gerac
Gunnar helps Caleb write a song. You're riveted, right?

[Sandman]

the shellfish Juliette

Heh. Because she's so crabby? Or are you calling HP shrimpy?

[Cranberry]

Moved some promo-based speculation over to the unspoiled speculation thread. I don't consider promos to be spoilers, but some posters prefer not to watch them, so it would be great if people could talk about them in that thread or in the spoiler thread, depending on preference. Thank you!

[FortKnox]

Question, did anyone feel Juliette was going to overdose after telling the doctor she didn't want to feel anything?

In fact when the friend tried to wake Juliette up when Avery called it seemed like she wasn't going to wake up.

[Readalot]

As far as St Beverly - remember when Ronald Reagan was alive? And his daughter and son stated publicly what a crapping childhood they had and that Ronald was a bad dad. Then at his eulogy and interviews afterward he was St. Ronald? I think it happens a lot. Sainthood after death.

[Village]

This is what I don't get about this show. Are we supposed to enjoy watching selfish people wallow in their own pain and self-destruction? It's only been four episodes but it feels like twelve at this point. Juliette has far surpassed being a sympathetic character and I'm about ready for everyone to wash their hands of her. How many times is a person allowed to hurt the people around them until those people say enough is enough? It's ridiculous.

 

And I get that Deacon is going through some shit but he is so goddamn selfish. Scarlett has nothing to apologize for yet she's reaching out trying to make peace with this person who has turned his back on her despite the numerous times she's been there for him.

 

Just because you're in pain doesn't give you the right to hurt people.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Village

[vibeology]

Thank goodness for Jeff and Layla being mostly adorable because their plot was the one bright spot in an hour of pain, selfishness and self-destruction. Yes Layla had a tantrum, but she worked through it and apologized in about an hour. Jeff was supportive, caring and he bought her boots. I know their beginning is too messed up for words, but at least when they were onscreen I was enjoying the show. Jayla forever. I'm glad Oliver Hudson still has time for this role because I really enjoy this couple.

 

I also really enjoyed Zoey! It makes so much sense for her to be back for a while and I'm glad she was there for Gunnar and Scarlett. I don't want her to stick around forever, but having her pop in now and then would be cool.

 

Markus is annoying, Juliette's mess is painful to watch and Deacon is an ass. 

[CofCinci]

The show is a hot mess when the Jeff and Layla scene are the only decent ones.

[Readalot]

The show is a hot mess when the Jeff and Layla scene are the only decent ones.

true. Good point. I really wanted Avery more involved the last few episodes since he and Scarlett share a history. Or at least an acknowledgement of their history.

[Wilco]

Agree so much with CofCinci comment. This is all just so miserable and none of the current storylines have any appeal. Right now actually prefer reading the entertainment sites' reviews/fan comments more than watching the show itself.

 

Can't see how they bring Juliette back/make her redeemable at this point. Depressing to watch her plotline especially and there's just no levity in the show. The actors are doing the best they can with this, but surely the producers/writers must know how badly this is going? Do they see the fans' views of this or care about fans reactions?  

 

Can't imagine that Callie Khouri and Connie Britton are pleased with this-- seems far from all the promise the show had. And even the music is worse this year.

 

The show has so devolved in quality from season 1. Excellent review of this episode and Nashville - at least spot on in how I feel about Nashville at this point- by Ken Tucker of yahoo tv at

www.yahoo.com/tv/review

[Clemgo3165]

Can't find the page ;(

[madam magpie]

Maybe it's this?

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/nashville-review-hayden-panettiere-172704979.html

[Sutton]

Thanks for the listing MM, Ken Tucker's review is what many of us fans are thinking and saying but who knows why Nashville is taking us down a path that we all HATE. Maybe they don't care anymore because they are in reruns already. Watched 3 episodes back to back from season #1. I can't believe the great writing in season #1 where did all those writers go? Ken hit Nashville where it hurts reviewing the series honestly.

[smiley13]

Thanks for the listing MM, Ken Tucker's review is what many of us fans are thinking and saying but who knows why Nashville is taking us down a path that we all HATE. Maybe they don't care anymore because they are in reruns already. Watched 3 episodes back to back from season #1. I can't believe the great writing in season #1 where did all those writers go? Ken hit Nashville where it hurts reviewing the series honestly.

The only think I hate is the disruptions to Gunnar and Scarlett.  We have Rayna and Deacon together which people have wanted from the get go.  We are rid of Teddy which people have wanted.  

[Kathemy]

Anyone mentioned that Hayden has taken an indefinite leave of absence from the show to check into a rehab clinic for her PPD? I don't know what to say. Just that I am completely incensed by these worthless hacks writing a PPD storyline so over-the-top and insensitive that it likely has contributed to her personal real life problems.

 

Like so many others have said before me this isn't even PPD, it's simply Juliette behaving like a psychotic asshole. How anyone in their right mind would write a scene where a person who has just given birth to a child would have to throw a heavy object at a newborn baby is beyond me.

[Sutton]

Smiley13 -- Yes, Deacon/Rayna are together now, but for how long before the writers put a wedge between them like the new #65 artist who (IMO) is already going to hit on Rayna. After singing that song with her he got down on one knee and kissed her hand that was the start of your going to owe me. Lets hope she puts him in his place telling him with strong and very firm words that she's not interested and that she's going to marry Deacon Claybourne very soon or did that idea of marriage kind of fad with the writers .I want to see the Rayna character she was in season #1 a strong hold no bars woman against a male dominated industry. With Deacon having her back and supporting her in every step she takes they can be a power couple.

[romantic idiot]

Anyone mentioned that Hayden has taken an indefinite leave of absence from the show to check into a rehab clinic for her PPD? I don't know what to say. Just that I am completely incensed by these worthless hacks writing a PPD storyline so over-the-top and insensitive that it likely has contributed to her personal real life problems.

 

Like so many others have said before me this isn't even PPD, it's simply Juliette behaving like a psychotic asshole. How anyone in their right mind would write a scene where a person who has just given birth to a child would have to throw a heavy object at a newborn baby is beyond me.

 

I remember there being discussion that this is a type of PPD. Also, I'd say good for the show if it encouraged Hayden to get the help she needed.

[thaliasghost]

Thank goodness for Jeff and Layla being mostly adorable because their plot was the one bright spot in an hour of pain, selfishness and self-destruction. Yes Layla had a tantrum, but she worked through it and apologized in about an hour. Jeff was supportive, caring and he bought her boots. I know their beginning is too messed up for words, but at least when they were onscreen I was enjoying the show. Jayla forever. I'm glad Oliver Hudson still has time for this role because I really enjoy this couple.

 

I also really enjoyed Zoey! It makes so much sense for her to be back for a while and I'm glad she was there for Gunnar and Scarlett. I don't want her to stick around forever, but having her pop in now and then would be cool.

 

Markus is annoying, Juliette's mess is painful to watch and Deacon is an ass. 

 

 

Even though I enjoyed the Jeff and Layla scenes (as they are what I wanted before they went down the abusive relationship/battered wife trope) they still made me feel very uneasy. So Jeff gets all this for a very valid outburst from Layla and all Lalya got from him for almost driving her into suicide, gaslighting her, emotionally belittling her, manipulating her, lying to her, causing her to almost develop an eating disorder, enslaving her in a "contract" that hasn't yet been discussed was an "I'm sorry" and everything was forgiven and never talked about again?

 

Kudos to Oliver Hudson though, in the very first few and very last few seconds of their first scene in this episode he managed to convey that Jeff actually really wants to be with Layla - not as a business endeavor, not for the sex, not to control and possess her - but truly enjoys being one part of a couple. Yes, their scenes were sweet and endearing. At first glance.

 

I enjoyed Zoey's return as well. The show has a problem with either keeping on characters and storylines that nobody wants for ages or just taking characters awayy. I like some continuity, which is why I also liked the return of Colt. A whole lot of people showing up to the funeral of a person they never even met. Zoey was the only one whose presence made sense.

Anyone mentioned that Hayden has taken an indefinite leave of absence from the show to check into a rehab clinic for her PPD?

Has it been discussed here how that is going to affect the show? I seem to recall that there is to be a very long new-ish break period?

[thaliasghost]

Some of my favorite scenes of the show are Rayna and Juliette uniting against Jeff and Rayna sparring with Jeff. Loved it when Rayna found out Jeff is Layla's managers. This can only be better.

 

I like the return of Colt as I like some continuity. I hate it when characters in relationship to others characters just disappear never to be mentioned again..

 

I really dislike the "live like this" notion though. Sorry, not all of us are super rich Hollywood writers who live in stylish mansions. You know what, Debra Fordhal etal? My parents picked up some old furniture from the trash and 40 years later we still use it. Guess we don't deserve life in your eyes. There is plenty of people living "like that" in normal homes. Good to know what you think of them.

[thaliasghost]

One other thing. The introduction of Lalya in the second season is one of my favorite scenes for pure comedic gold. Look how far we've come from Rayna and Juliette looking at Layla in disbelief with a gleeful Jeff to Rayna now being Layla's mentor.

[Clemgo3165]

Most TV writers aren't super rich and they aren't living in mansions.

[Rose]

What is the "live like this" notion from Fordham?  I did not see this.

[thaliasghost]

What is the "live like this" notion from Fordham?  I did not see this.

Debra Fordham. I was referring to the writers, not fictional characters. Debra Fordham used her own name for his character.

[Clemgo3165]

She used her own name for Jeff? So, what does that have to do with your "live like this" comment? I don't understand.

[axlmadonna]

I hope like hell that someone -- preferably Scarlett -- calls Deacon on that "Beverly never gave up" crap he's pulling straight out of his ass. Because, no. She did give up, on being a decent mother to her child, for one.

Also, she gave up on her music career, just because Rayna wouldn't take her on tour.

[Clemgo3165]

Rayna wanted both Deacon and Bev on her tour, Bev turned her down because she didn't want to be a fifth wheel. And she was still singing anyway when Rayna went to find her in Natchez. 

[axlmadonna]

She gave up a huge opportunity, one that might have eventually catapulted her into her own stardom, because she was jealous of Rayna's success. Yes, she still sang at the local dive... but that's hardly proof of her not giving up.

[madam magpie]

She gave up a huge opportunity, one that might have eventually catapulted her into her own stardom, because she was jealous of Rayna's success. Yes, she still sang at the local dive... but that's hardly proof of her not giving up.

I count all that as totally giving up.

[Clemgo3165]

She totally gave up on having a music career because she was jealous of Deacon and Rayna, but she didn't give up because Rayna wouldn't take her on tour - the offer was there, she turned it down. She did find a way to keep singing though, for pay I'm assuming.

 

I'm not sure what we were supposed to get from the not giving up comments unless he was talking about her fighting through the first coma and her mental health issues. I think Deacon was doing a little rewriting history - though who can blame him, Bev's history has been rewritten a few times now and I expect we'll see more tomorrow night.

[madam magpie]

I think she also gave up on Deacon and Scarlett repeatedly. I mean, she drove Scarlett to a mental hospital and she flat-out told Deacon that she wouldn't be his donor. I do think most of this nonsense is because of revisionist history on the part of the writers, though: it takes less creativity and is easier to write a straight "she was an angel" storyline than a "life is complicated and we're still devastated by the death of this woman who was mean to us" story.

Edited October 20, 2015 by madam magpie

[evilmindatwork]

 

I really dislike the "live like this" notion though. Sorry, not all of us are super rich Hollywood writers who live in stylish mansions. You know what, Debra Fordhal etal? My parents picked up some old furniture from the trash and 40 years later we still use it. Guess we don't deserve life in your eyes. There is plenty of people living "like that" in normal homes. Good to know what you think of them.

I am a little confused. What part of the episode are you referring to here? Is there a scene where Cole looks down on someone with second hand furniture? 

[thaliasghost]

She used her own name for Jeff? So, what does that have to do with your "live like this" comment? I don't understand.

Nothing at all. I talked about the writers and mentioned Debra Fordham as she seems the most prominent one. Somebody didn't comprehend what I meant in the first place and wondered why I was talking about Jeff. I wasn't. They just share the same name (on purpose).

[thaliasghost]

I am a little confused. What part of the episode are you referring to here? Is there a scene where Cole looks down on someone with second hand furniture? 

There is no character named Cole on the show as far as I know. There is Colt Wheeler, Luke's son who has nothing to do with what I talked about at all.

 

Deacon and Scarlett refer to a perfectly normal apartment that way. I'd like to see more apartments like this, less apartments like Calebs. I'm sure there are a lot of Nashville fans who are living in apartments just like that or working as waitresses.

[madam magpie]

Thaliasghost: I have no idea what you're referring to. Caleb is a doctor; I'm sure he can afford a nice condo. Deacon lives in a bungalow in a neighborhood like East Nashville or maybe 12 South, which are super trendy and not cheap...though not Belle Meade where Rayna who's rich as hell definitely lives in a mansion. Jeff had a mansion, Luke has a huge ranch, Colt lives there with his dad so I guess he's got a mansion, Juliette is super rich and has a huge house. Teddy was the mayor. Who are these regular people again?? Nashville fans may live in small houses, but most of these characters are filthy rich. They live in homes that reflect that.

Edited October 20, 2015 by madam magpie

[Rose]

I think I figured it out--not in this episode, but in one of the promos, Scarlett is apparently at Beverly's home and says "I was the last person to leave her here to live like this."  I didn't really notice the furnishings, thought of it more like "live alone."  But I see your point, Thaliasghost.  (Also, think this s/b in a different thread, but not sure where, or how much to move.)

[Soup333]

Ah, that makes sense. Haven't seen the actual scene yet, but I interpreted it as she meant leaving her mother alone. Both she and Deacon would have guilt over "leaving" Beverly. 

 

The only character living remotely like most viewers is Layla and that's only because she hasn't moved out of the Scarlett/Avery house. Even though the boys are bunking together, all three of them have money. Even without Juliette's assets, Avery should have gotten a nice check from his co-write of Dirt and Will should have some money from his very popular reality show and the tour with Luke. 

[iggysaurus]

It seems pretty random to pull a quote from a promo, that we don't have the full context of, and start discussing it in the episode thread without any explanation. I was sitting here scratching my head because I'm positive there was no scene in the actual episode where anyone looked down on how "regular people" live. Furthermore, if the scene in question is the one Rose described, I don't see how that really warrants leaping to the conclusion that Nashville writers have disdain for people who aren't super rich. Shrug. I guess mileage varies ...

[Cranberry]

I moved the post in question over to this thread from the s04e05 thread because the first half of it discussed things that happened in this episode. Sorry for the confusion!

[Kathemy]

Side note, can anyone think of another show that's assassinated a main character so thoroughly it's driven the actress to a mental hospital?

[MisterS]

Side note, can anyone think of another show that's assassinated a main character so thoroughly it's driven the actress to a mental hospital?

Maybe you want to start a debate but you make a lot of assumptions here and the language you are using is very emotive. Rightfully, we don't know the full details of HP's condition and treatment and IMO it isn't reasonable to put all blame on the producers of the show in this way.

Separate from that, I don't think much of the Nashville portrayal of PPD and it could - potentially - have put a lot of pressure on the actress as a new mother. But as I said, we don't know the details.