S14.E10: Crew's All In

[PepperMonkey]

whims, prayers and thoughts to the universe for your kitty.

[RemoteControlFreak]

I don't think it's an unfair assessment because, as you describe, she only shot down what he did manage to show her. He already was struggling at the challenge of making something that wouldn't compromise his aesthetic and yet please her highly restrictive one, and then he had zero guidance or support from client/mentor at the time he needed it most.

It's not the client's job to offer guidance or support. 

Paraphrasing Tom and Lorenzo,

In the real world, designers don't choose the client, a client CHOOSES the designer - would you go to Chinese restaurant and expect/ask for/demand a taco?

I agree with you and it was certainly unfair to all of them. It seems Swapnil had the extra burden of having a mentor who wanted him gone.

Project Runway is not the real world. It's a television game show.  The rules were the same for everyone -- design a garment for a member of the PR crew.  We've seen these "design for a real world" challenges every season. Some designers rise to the occasion no matter how picky or un-model-like their clients are.  Some don't.  

 

As for a mentor who wanted him gone, it's a chicken or egg situation. What came first?  Swapnil being lazy or Tim wanting him gone?

I think Tim Gunn is just as sick of this show as we are, and that is why his attitude is so horrible. Maybe he is stuck in a contract and is just counting down the days when he can be done with this show and go back to teaching.

No. I think he's sick of contestants who don't try.  That's been the same every season, though this season had a particularly bad crop of contestants who were unwilling or unable to rise to the challenges.  I don't recall a season where there was so much crappy shit thrown down the runway.  It sounds like Tim felt that Swapnil was not only the most lazy of the bunch but a toxic presence that led the other contestants to also be lazy and complacent.

[slothgirl]

My thought on the fairness issue is that it matters not because of the designers and their feelings, but because if the AUDIENCE perceives a situation as unfair, it's going to have a negative impact on the show. We all know this is reality TV and things are manipulated, etc., but in the end it's supposed to be a competition of talent, where a bunch of people are faced with the SAME challenge, and live or die by their abilities. That's what I'm here to watch, anyway. So if a situation seems like it vastly handicaps one contestant more than others, that's bad because it makes me, a viewer, annoyed at the setup (and clearly at least some other viewers are also annoyed, based on comments here.)

 

I want the show to provide challenges that give people an even starting ground, because that's what I want to watch. And other competitive reality shows manage to keep things fair, or at least make it seem that way. 

 

Of course, at this point we all just have to be used to the fact that some of the clients in the real women challenge are going to be pickier than others. I think the real misstep the producers made this time was not even PRETENDING it was randomized via button bag. That makes it a lot easier to feel like the situation was manipulated to make Swapnil fail, which I think is just bad TV.

 

The real women challenge has NEVER been an equal set-up (or never since I started watching). There are always a mix of body styles (and the one closest to "runway model" always wins) There have been a mix of personalities with some far more demanding or unpleasant than others. There have always been good matches and extreme mis-matches. And they usually also have different outfits they want, with some asking for a special occasion gown (which usually wins, especially if combined with "thin client") and others wanting a trendy office look.

 

It's never been a level playing field and yet, it always results in some surprises about who does well and who doesn't anyway. Did anyone expect Gunther (I think it was) to get on so well with his client and make her feel so good? Did anyone expect Orange Josh, one of the worst bullies ever on the show, to work so well with a client and give her a great outfit (and one for her dog)? Did anyone expect Ashley to crash and burn this time? I'm betting they fully expected to be able to give Ashley the win this go round to counteract the bad press they've been getting for years about how the thinnest real woman always wins. Whether or not they set Swapnil up to lose, I don't know, but they almost certainly set Ashley up to win and her outfit was craptastic. Oops! Producer manipulation BACKFIRE!

 

Even when they have the button bag, it still seems so rigged 1/2 the time, so at least this time they didn't pretend otherwise, I guess.

 

I agree with everything you said, but... did she have to agree to participate in the challenge? Was her daily job contingent upon participating in this challenge? Couldn't she have said no, I'm not comfortable with it?

We don't know, and we likely will never know. She was nominated by her co-workers for a makeover which is an unpleasant position to be in already. She's working for a fashion show run by a famous model and other well known (now) fashion industry people. I can't imagine it would be easy to say "No, I don't want a makeover; I don't care about fashion." I can't remember what her job was, but she would have some protections from her union, I expect. They couldn't fire her for not doing it, but her work situation could be made fairly uncomfortable. I don't think anyone would want to put themselves on Heidi's bad side!

 

Frankly, I'd want hazard pay to subject myself to the harsh judgements of the viewing public. We have NO IDEA how the backlash from this may be affecting her emotionally, and it wasn't something she chose when she took her job. She was not a contestant, nor was she one of the fans who applied for a real world challenge episode. She wouldn't have been there at all, if she didn't have a staff job on the show, and I'd be surprised if there was NO pressure involved for her to participate. How many women could the show possible have on its crew? It's still a male dominated industry.

Edited October 15, 2015 by slothgirl

[anonymiss]

It's not the client's job to offer guidance or support. 

I do think it's the client's job to offer input otherwise the designer won't know what to design for her (unless she's openminded/willing to experiment with her style). She only offered "flirty" and gave no examples on what that meant for her. She seems like someone who doesn't know/care about fashion and only wears clothes for their utility--the more they can cover her up, the better.

Edited October 15, 2015 by anonymiss

[PamelaMaeSnap]

Just to set my crazy mind at ease, it was indeed Morris Day I was thinking of ... though I'm guessing Merline would have been about 5 in his heyday!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZdqPNVGmeM

[Freckledbruh]

Maybe they should have had a real person makeover.  Haven't seen them do any men's clothing yet.  That would have taken real courage on the part of the male clients.

"Them" as in these set of contestants or in general?  I HATE the menswear challenges because almost ALL of the designers suck at it, the runways aren't as interesting and, quite frankly, it is an entirely different market.

[PepperMonkey]

I don't think they'll EVER do another menswear challenge after Thunder from Down Under from season 11. That one kind of BROKE the bar.

[slothgirl]

I watched the rebroadcast just to see what they would keep and what they would edit out for the shorter time frame. It's choppy but I found Swapnil';s client more open and cheerful int he beginning than I remembered. She also says at one point "I'll wear whatever you want; I'm here for you too". Of course, she wasn't happy to wear whatever he wanted (so there's that) and to his credit, Swapnil knew he hadn't made her happy.

 

But he says at one point that she isn't the sort of client he designs for (can't remember the exact words) and later on the runway says this:

 

"She wanted sleeves and she wanted her legs covered. What am I supposed to do with someone like that?" and I had the same reaction as when I heard it the first time: "Jackass... get off my tv!"

 

The other thing I hadn't remembered from before was the hair guy saying what great "texture" Edmond's client had... right before completely changing her texture. Hair guy? See note to Swapnil above; rinse and repeat!

Edited October 16, 2015 by slothgirl

[crowswork]

I liked the plus-size model's original look. Tim screwed that one up. She could have added something - a little jacket or something but she started over and that peplum thing was NG. The little full skirted dress was cute as heck. She could've done a little under skirt with a contrasting color that showed just a little or as I said a little jacket which she excels at. Sometimes Tim's help isn't very helpful and people need to have the strength of their own convictions. You can improve without changing completely.

 

Swapnel (sp) in my opinion, needed to go. Maybe grab a smoke. If I was a hard-core smoker and I knew I was going to be on this show I think I would stuff my pockets with patches and gum Nicorette whatever. Stress makes you want to smoke more and you can't smoke in the work room soooo.
 

[RCharter]

It's not the client's job to offer guidance or support. 

Project Runway is not the real world. It's a television game show.  The rules were the same for everyone -- design a garment for a member of the PR crew.  We've seen these "design for a real world" challenges every season. Some designers rise to the occasion no matter how picky or un-model-like their clients are.  Some don't.  

 

As for a mentor who wanted him gone, it's a chicken or egg situation. What came first?  Swapnil being lazy or Tim wanting him gone?

No. I think he's sick of contestants who don't try.  That's been the same every season, though this season had a particularly bad crop of contestants who were unwilling or unable to rise to the challenges.  I don't recall a season where there was so much crappy shit thrown down the runway.  It sounds like Tim felt that Swapnil was not only the most lazy of the bunch but a toxic presence that led the other contestants to also be lazy and complacent.

 

Swapnil produced top three work.  The final runway look is the only thing the judges should be judging.  Not a solitary judge said "gosh, this runway show was awful, it looks like you all are half asleep in there!"    And they have made comments to that effect in past seasons, so its not like the judges are so shy.

 

I don't care which came first, because Tim had no place asking for any designer to be sent home for anything other than their work product.  

 

I liked the plus-size model's original look. Tim screwed that one up. She could have added something - a little jacket or something but she started over and that peplum thing was NG. The little full skirted dress was cute as heck. She could've done a little under skirt with a contrasting color that showed just a little or as I said a little jacket which she excels at. Sometimes Tim's help isn't very helpful and people need to have the strength of their own convictions. You can improve without changing completely.

 

Swapnel (sp) in my opinion, needed to go. Maybe grab a smoke. If I was a hard-core smoker and I knew I was going to be on this show I think I would stuff my pockets with patches and gum Nicorette whatever. Stress makes you want to smoke more and you can't smoke in the work room soooo.

 

Swapnil was performing just fine and was giving the judges top three looks with all of his smoke breaks.  He shouldn't have had to change his entire work process to satisfy bitter betty Tim Gunn.  The change in Swapnil's work process in response to Tim's whining took Swapnil from a designer giving top three looks every week to a designer that was on the bottom.

 

If Swapnil was lazy and awful, it should have reflected in his work from day 1.  It did not, his first time in the bottom was the only time we ever heard from Zac that he was "tired of giving Swapnil chances" which suggests that he was influenced by Tim's whining about how Swapnil worked, because what else would make Zac tired of giving a designer chances who had consistently been in the top three?  

 

If the judges don't want to judge the final product that comes down the runway, its time to rename this show "Project Work Ethic" and not project runway.  The judges can determine who puts in the most work and grade them based on that.

 

As long as this is Project Runway, the only thing the judges should consider are the final looks that walk the runway, not Tim's bitter betty whining.

Edited October 16, 2015 by RCharter

[film noire]

edited.

Edited October 16, 2015 by film noire

[OakGoblinFly]

I do think it's the client's job to offer input otherwise the designer won't know what to design for her (unless she's openminded/willing to experiment with her style). She only offered "flirty" and gave no examples on what that meant for her. She seems like someone who doesn't know/care about fashion and only wears clothes for their utility--the more they can cover her up, the better.

 

 

It is the professional designer's job to ask questions to help clarify his client's viewpoint and not the client's job to design the entire outfit.  Swapnil should have asked 'what do you mean when you say flirty' or 'is there a celebrity style that you like' and that would have given him the guidance he needed while designing an outfit to meet his clients very reasonable request of ‘covered arms and legs.’

 

I wouldn't have any idea what I would want if I was afforded the opportunity for a custom-designed outfit; I would hope that the designer would begin asking questions to help focus my likes/dislikes thereby increasing the likelihood of designing a successful outfit.

 

Swapnil did not do that; he was stuck with 'bombshell' and 'structural' and flat out said 'I don't design for women like her' so he was doomed to fail this challenge unless he received someone like Heidi who doesn't mind walking around in ultra-sexy, ultra short outfits.  He was inflexible for a large part of this challenge and it cost him.

 

Compare that to someone like Edmond and Merline who compromised their personal preferences enough to satisfy their client's request while retaining enough of their own aesthetic.

[ChelseaNH]

They had cross-dressers once

 

Drag queens, which is not quite the same thing.  Drag queens are in-character performers, so the challenge had more of a costume angle.

 

Tim screwed that one up. She could have added something - a little jacket or something but she started over and that peplum thing was NG.

 

Since Tim didn't tell her to start all over, how is that his fault?

[ratgirlagogo]

 

The other thing I hadn't remembered from before was the hair guy saying what great "texture" Edmond's client had... right before completely changing her texture.

I cannot stress enough how much I HATED this.  Almost as much as I HATED that Swapnil's client had her greying hair dyed.  The curly hair was beautiful, as was was the dark-with-white-threads color.  One of my biggest pet peeves.

[AZChristian]

I didn't watch this episode until the rerun this week.  First impression . . . those were not actual crew members.  The whole "TG to ____" with the walkie talkies was silly,  Really - if the female crew members were going to be on the show, did they have to be CALLED to the workroom?  Wouldn't they all be paraded in like every other group of models?

 

I call fakery on the whole concept.

[sinkwriter]

I didn't mind that part - I thought they were trying to be a little silly and I liked the code name "TG." That amused me. 

[mansonlamps]

Right it was just goofy like Tim and Heidi attempting to play basketball.

[NewDigs]

So little patience, I have. Crew volunteers? It's a piece of clothing on a TV show that you never have to wear again or even keep. It's not your entire self worth. You'd think they would have been a little more relaxed from being around the show for years but on the whole they came off as demanding, uncooperative and tearful for no reason.

 

Unlike Nina, I was not one bit surprised that Ashley sent her model out in something unflattering for a plus size person, because that's the way she dresses her own damned self week after week!

Thank you. I hate these "real" people-client challenges. I thought the first look Swapnil started to make for his special snowflake was going in a good direction but not to be. But that cape horror he sent down the runway was a flat mess. And I thought her attitude pretty much sucked until she was able to make fun of the outfit at the pinch and prod w/ Zac et al. All smiles then.

And the whole covered arms thing kind of threw me. Don't most usually just want the jiggly upper arm stuff covered?

Don't know who the not-Constance-Zimmer judge was but her vocal fry 'bout drove me crazy. Can't remember a thing she said. At least she wasn't also up-talking.

Tim sucked this episode, imho. It's one thing to criticize and a totally different thing to swear and demean and denigrate.