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catrox14

S09.E11: First Born

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Dean and Crowley attempt to find the First Blade. Sam and Castiel attempt to rid Sam of Gadreel.

 

I just wanted to mention this episode as being my favorite so far in season 9.  I'm sure it's because it was focused on Dean actually doing something! I would watch Dean and Crowley snark at each other for years and never get bored.  Also, it's the beginning of Dean's even further downward spiral.  But mostly, that fight scene between Dean and the demons was just brutal and cinematic.

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My favorite episode as well. I liked the twist they put on the biblical story of Cain and Abel. And Tara, I wish they'd introduce more hunters who knew John.

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And Tara, I wish they'd introduce more hunters who knew John.

 

But maybe not kill them off? Please.

 

I didn't like that Tara got killed  - I liked her. She was interesting - and the brutal, painful way she was said to have died... and Dean just allowed Crowley to smile and shrug it off as an "oh well, oops." Grrr.

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. and Dean just allowed Crowley to smile and shrug it off as an "oh well, oops." Grrr.

 

At the end of the episode, Dean said "Tara died because of you" Crowley said, "broken eggs. blah blah" and then Dean punched him right in the face and told him he was coming for him after he killed Abaddon. I don't think that was letting him off.

 

This episode alone makes he season a must own on DVD.

 

Oh man, if they don't have a behind the scenes of Jensen doing that fight I will be really miffed.

Edited by catrox14
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At the end of the episode, Dean said "Tara died because of you" Crowley said, "broken eggs. blah blah" and then Dean punched him right in the face and told him he was coming for him after he killed Abaddon. I don't think that was letting him off.

 

Thank you for correcting me on that - I haven't done a proper season 9 rewatch - and it was Crowley who I was referring to as the one saying "oh well, oops," but a punch in the nose is in a way letting Crowley get off a little lightly, considering what he did to Tara. And Dean didn't quite live up to his threat either, since he didn't follow through on killing Crowley after he killed Abaddon.

 

Sam so needs to kill Crowley before this series ends. He's only been wanting to since season 5 - heh.

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I don't think Dean's reaction to Tara's death was anywhere close to accepting Crowley saying "oops".  He needed Crowley to find the first Blade.  But I will always remember

 

S4 "I will stab you in your face" Dean to Zachariah

S5- Dean stabs Zachariah in the face 

 

Dean Winchester keeps his promises. He will kill Crowley one day. Book it.

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I think Tara died because she shot a hole into her own Devil's Trap. After she did that I thought that I was surprised she survived that long.

 

I'm not saying Crowley wasn't to blame but she made it rather easy.

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Loved the fight scenes! The best was in Cain's kitchen when Dean started using whatever he could against the demons -- wrapping one demon in the dishtowel, throwing a cake pan from on top of the fridge against the other one. A demon getting a knife from the knife block while Cain was right next to him taking the cap off his beer was great. And I did laugh when the one demon came into the living room to fight Crowley, he kicked Crowley to the ground, and Crowley pretended to be hurt and needing a hand up in order to stab him in the stomach -- and then said, "you're good, but I'm Crowley." LOL yes, Crowley, the person who fakes an injury and makes himself look pathetic in order to carry out a sneak attack. I like that even Crowley thinks that acting like a pathetic slimeball is his "signature" fighting style.

 

At the end of the episode, Dean said "Tara died because of you" Crowley said, "broken eggs. blah blah" and then Dean punched him right in the face and told him he was coming for him after he killed Abaddon.

 

I think that what was also important was that when Dean confronted Crowley about Tara, Crowley wasn't sorry. Cas said that being human had made him understand what being sorry was like, Sam felt sorry about Kevin dying in his place, Dean felt sorry about betraying Sam, even Cain said sorry to his wife after he stabbed her with the Blade. So I think that Crowley not feeling regret was important, (albeit, expected) because it showed that regardless of him injecting the human blood on his own and him being semi-helpful, he doesn't actually have enough/much humanity in him to be trusted even in the way that Cain could be trusted.

 

S4 "I will stab you in your face" Dean to Zachariah

S5- Dean stabs Zachariah in the face 

 

Dean Winchester keeps his promises. He will kill Crowley one day. Book it.

 

I love this, and I hope that he does keep his promise about Crowley. I guess he couldn't really kill Crowley yet, since the only thing that's likely to work on him is the Blade, same as for Abaddon? Though, why didn't they finish curing Crowley while he was trapped in the bunker? Or at least try to, even just to pass the time or make him useful somehow?

 

I was wondering about the demon curing thing altogether. Would it still count as the third trial if they did the demon cure + Enochian spell now? Or are the trials kaput because they had to be finished within a certain time frame or something?

 

I didn't like that Tara got killed  - I liked her. She was interesting - and the brutal, painful way she was said to have died...

 

Completely agree, I was straight up irritated that they introduced a pretty interesting character (or, I liked the actress, anyway), and then just killed her off after one scene. And meanwhile, Crowley lives on. UGH I'd trade Tara or Cain for Crowley any day. And for the demons to have killed her by peeling off all her skin?! Jeez. Maybe all hunters should get one of those false crowns with a cyanide pill inside to replace a back tooth, just in case.

 

Anyway, the episode was great. And I never thought I'd say this, because I thought Dean was The Worst for the Gadreel possession thing back when this season was airing, but I actually felt pretty bad for him in this episode, at least this time around. He was using the Batman Voice version of his Batman Voice and Jensen actually acted drunk in the opening scene at the bar (I feel like, unless Dean is supposed to be having fun or being ridiculous, he never plays that Dean's drunk?).

 

When he and Sam had that fight at the end of the previous episode, and Dean said that he'll go off on his own because he's too toxic to be around anyone, and Sam said that he should go off on his own but that that wasn't why, what was the actual reason why? Because Sam felt betrayed so he didn't want Dean near him? Sorry to be dense, it just seemed like it was supposed to be obvious, but Dean being poison to everyone around him actually did seem like a reasonably good reason for him to go, and that also seemed like it matched up with the "Sam hates him right now" thing?

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Sam said that he should go off on his own but that that wasn't why, what was the actual reason why?

 

Dean thinks he is poison but that's not really true, that's just his general low-self-esteem and guilt speaking. As Crowley said, no one hates him more than he does himself.

Sam doesn't think Dean is poison, and he doesn't want to hear Dean going on and on about being poison while at the same time talking about killing the angel. It's not about taking revenge, it's about not doing it again and I think that's what Sam meant.

 

Or maybe I'm projecting because that's what I felt at the time.

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d

Dean thinks he is poison but that's not really true, that's just his general low-self-esteem and guilt speaking. As Crowley said, no one hates him more than he does himself.

Sam doesn't think Dean is poison, and he doesn't want to hear Dean going on and on about being poison while at the same time talking about killing the angel. It's not about taking revenge, it's about not doing it again and I think that's what Sam meant

Or maybe I'm projecting because that's what I felt at the time.

Taking my impressions to, the road trip episode thread.

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I'm sorry Robbie Thompson, I really want to love this episode, but in the end, it doesn't do all that much for me. I do enjoy most of the Dean/Crowley/Cain side of things, but it lacks that epic feel I think it was reaching for. Dean meeting Cain should be as iconic as Lazarus Rising and The End, but I'm not sure if they belong in the same galaxy, let alone universe. And the Sam/Cas side just falls flatter than a pancake for me. Which is too bad because there's actually some nice character beats for both Sam and Cass that get lost with the goofy music and stupid plotting and it all amounting to a big steaming pile of nothing in the end. That's how I feel about 90 percent of Mr Thompson's episodes. Somehow, what they are never seems to get in the same space as what they want to or should be. Maybe he's just trying too hard? Or maybe it's the production side doesn't get what he's trying to do? I really don't know.

 

Anyway, I liked Tara and her demon-detecting trick-knee, she was interesting. I agree she was doomed from the moment she blew a hole in her own floor with a shotgun, though. That was just rather foolish for a hunter to do, IMO. However, I will always be amused in that John Winchester kept 8x10 glossy pictures of his hunting partners in his files. I also find it amusing how this show just assumes that everything important always happens in the Continental U.S.  But whatever.

 

I don't really start to get into the Dean/Crowley side of things until Cain shows up. I mean, it's fine, but them snarking at each other seems rather 2009 to me. So, adding Cain to the mix does liven up the stale dynamic quite a bit. (I'm with Dean, I'd also like to know how to shush Crowley!) I just wish the scenes of all three of them were shot more creatively, instead of mostly just a bunch of static sit-n-chats--maybe that's why it just doesn't have that epic quality to it? I have to say, though, that fight scene where Cain shucks his corn while Dean takes out demon after demon with whatever he can lay is hands on is the highlight of the episode for me. Its been a long time since they've done a creative and clever fight scene and all the work and thought they put into it shows.

 

But then, Sam and Cass keep creeping into the episode and bringing it to a screeching halt. It was seriously giving me whiplash. Sam pushing as hard as could because he believed his life wasn't anymore valuable than anyone else's is something compelling to explore, too bad they didn't stick the landing though. And, aside from the PB&J joke, they really missed the boat on dealing with Cass being an angel-grace vampire. Sigh.

 

I guess it doesn't help that, once again, they have Dean do something in a foolish manner when I think it would make for better story if Dean was more proactive in it rather than reactive. But whatever, right?

 

The good to end on...Timothy Osmudson really knocked me over here. I hadn't seen any of his work before this episode aired, so wasn't sure what to expect other than his pictures had him looking so baby-faced. He nailed it, IMO--the humor, the knowing old man; the badassery; all of it--so kudos to him.

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Great episode.  I'd only seen it on original air date (and was barely paying attention/hate watching) so everything in this season is like brand new info to me.  ;)

Cain is such a great character and TO is someone I'd never seen on TV before.  He was fantastic.  Dean is beginning to spiral, working with Crowley, taking on the Mark without even giving a second thought as to what it means...  

Sam and Cas had some great moments and character growth, but the grace thing was a big ole waste of screen time since nothing came of it (other than what they learn in the process).  

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King Richard!  More tomorrow - but for now...King Richard!  And that blade looked like it could have come from Tad Cooper.  Just saying.... (Galavant references, fyi.)  Little disappointed Timothy Omundson didn't sing.  He's got a good voice.  I'm sure there's a good corn shucking song out there.

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So it's Friday morning and I'm a little punchy from lack of sleep (story of my life lately) but here goes:

  • I really like Timothy Omundson.  Great actor.  Nice to see him.  That said, I really wish the show would stay away from doing their own take on some stories, because I feel like they just screw them up more than change them up and make them interesting.  (See: the God debacle)  (Oh, and Angels).  (Oh, Oh yeah - and Eve.)  Now it's Cain and Able.  So Cain killed his brother to save him from becoming a demon.  Cause there was no other way to accomplish this other than Cain making a deal with Lucifer.  Sound familiar?  Where have I heard this story before?  Wait, let me think.  It's right on the edge of my brain...//sarcasm.  Nope - couldn't have tried actually talking to your bro at all, could you Cain?  Couldn't have tried - oh I don't know, but I'm sure there's another path other than becoming a demon yourself.  And Lucifer gave the Mark to Cain?  I don't know if that was explained why.  
  • Was the jawbone thing their take on Samson (who killed X number of Philistines with the jawbone of an ass).  I don't think the Bible ever said how Able was killed.  Or if if did, I don't remember.  And I'm too lazy to look it up right now.  I just always assumed he was strangled.  But then we wouldn't get that cool prop, would we?  With some teeth still intact.  Because the teeth wouldn't have fallen out a millennia ago. (Damn, and I thought I turned off the sarcasm font.  Guess not.)
  • I am sad that Cain apparently didn't get to spend much time with Colette.  That's Love though.  That he honored her memory all these years without her.  
  • I wondered how much a dupe Dean was being that he didn't realize Crowley was playing him - until he called him out at the end.  I'm so glad Dean did call him out at the end.  I knew right away there was something fishy that Crowley didn't realize there was a demon next to him in the bar.  But that before or after Dean got the Mark?  And if it was after, was it the Mark that enabled Dean to think a little clearer and recognize what was going on?
  • Tara was total bad-ass Sarah Connor.  And one again, a good hunter is screwed over because of the Winchesters - in more ways than one in this case. - and their own stupidity.  Why don't hunters ever immediately repair their demon traps after they have to "break" them for what ever reason?  Why did she shoot holes in her floor?  Bugs get in that way.  Ew.  Why not scrape a bit of the paint away with a knife?  Oh, then you could easily repaint the trap after Dean and his 'friend' were gone.  Cause you know, that would be smart.
  • I know John was pretty much a Bad Father, but why did they also need to paint him as a Major Dick to women?  This is not the Sweet Young John we saw in flashbacks, and I have a hard time reconciling who John was and who he seems to have become.  I realize the Hunter Life is hard, but that's still no excuse to completely change your personality and be a Class A Ass-Hole.  I hope that wasn't something we were supposed to think Dean had in common with his Dad, because while Dean has a string of one night stands and short flings, I don't think he ever promises he'll call them and then doesn't.  
  • I did enjoy Dean's bad-ass kitchen fight.  While Cain shucked on.
  • So it wasn't enough to have whiny-mopey-woe-is-me-I'm-toxic Dean last episode, now we have to have I'm-ready-to-die-again-because-I-don't-think-my-life-is-worth-much-even-though-I-didn't-complete-the-trials-cause-I-wanted-to-live Sam.  [smacks head on desk]  Gotta say though, it was worth it to watch Sam take off his overshirt and climb on that table.  I might have rewound that scene a few (dozen, hundred, who's counting really?) times.  
  • Would Cas really not have stopped and taken all the grace out and let Sam die before he became human?  I'm not so sure.  When the character was first introduced, sure.  But after all these years of hanging out with the Winchesters?  I don't think so.  I mean, he rebelled against Heaven for them - he said to Dean specifically.   And he knows how much Sam means to Dean, so I don't buy that line.  Still, I think it was nice and important for Sam to hear that Cas thought he was worth saving.
  • And now Cas can completely heal Sam's crispy fried innards with a Single Zap.  Didn't he say last ep that it would take time?  Haha!  Just Kidding!
  • Cain supposedly 'transferred' the Mark to Dean - but at the end, he also still had the Mark on his arm.  So he didn't really transfer it.  Or all of it.  Maybe he couldn't, since it originated with him.  And what was this business of Dean being "worthy" of the Mark?  Like it was some kind of honor?  Uh, "worthy" (and by extension, "Honorable") is not the word I would use to describe what Cain became after he received the Mark.  
  • If Crowley can go find the Blade at the bottom of the ocean (and Cain didn't specify which ocean), why did he even need Dean's help to find it in the first place?
  • I wonder what happens to Cain when he dies.  He was a demon, or First Knight of Hell, so does that mean he goes to Hell?  Or will he end up in Purgatory?  Seriously doubt he'll see his Colette again, the way this show goes.  
  • So last Season Cas had to repeatedly tell Dean that they could use Sam's help (and Dean refused to call him.)  Now this Season we have Cas repeatedly telling Sam they could really use Dean's help (and Sam refusing to call him.)  How 'bout next time they're in the same room, Cas just smacks their heads together a few times till they get over themselves?  Or I'll do it for him.  Please.  Let me help.
  • ETA: I also have to side-eye Dean knowing not only which storage locker (there's more than one?!) of John's to go to right off the bat, but also being able to walk in, open one or two drawers and immediately find the information he needed.  
Edited by RulerofallIsurvey · Reason: Not using the Dewey Decimal System, that's for sure.

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16 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I wonder what happens to Cain when he dies.  He was a demon, or First Knight of Hell, so does that mean he goes to Hell?  Or will he end up in Purgatory?  Seriously doubt he'll see his Colette again, the way this show goes.  

This actually brings up a good point.  We don't know what happens to demons when they die.  They get exorcised, they go back to hell (and probably do not collect $200), but when they die?  Angels either for that matter.  I guess they cease to exist.  With that logic, I'd assume if Cain died you'd be right, he wouldn't see Colette again.

I'm curious what causes some to end up in purgatory, and some have the option of heaven/hell.  Vampires we've seen end up in purgatory, but they were originally human.  Do werewolves end up there as well?  Witches?  Aren't they still considered human?  It's really a shame we didn't see more of purgatory, I would've liked to have seen a few familiar faces show up (Lenore, Sam's werewolf girlfriend whose name I'm forgetting, and GORDON!!) and I would've liked to know what else is in there.

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13 minutes ago, pixelcat said:

I'm curious what causes some to end up in purgatory, and some have the option of heaven/hell.  Vampires we've seen end up in purgatory, but they were originally human.  Do werewolves end up there as well?  Witches?  Aren't they still considered human?  It's really a shame we didn't see more of purgatory, I would've liked to have seen a few familiar faces show up (Lenore, Sam's werewolf girlfriend whose name I'm forgetting, and GORDON!!) and I would've liked to know what else is in there.

I thought all monster souls--werewolved, vampires, ghouls...basically mutated humans--go to Purgatory. And, Heaven and Hell are for human souls. I always figured since angels didn't have a soul they just ceased to exist when they were killed. Demons, though, that's a good question. They have souls, just corrupted and tainted souls. Hmm...

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6 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I thought all monster souls--werewolved, vampires, ghouls...basically mutated humans--go to Purgatory. And, Heaven and Hell are for human souls. I always figured since angels didn't have a soul they just ceased to exist when they were killed. Demons, though, that's a good question. They have souls, just corrupted and tainted souls. Hmm...

And if demons who die just end up in Hell again, then they could get back out.  And we've never seen (or heard) about a dead demon coming back, or getting out of Hell.

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39 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I am sad that Cain apparently didn't get to spend much time with Colette.  That's Love though.  That he honored her memory all these years without her.  

 

39 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I know John was pretty much a Bad Father, but why did they also need to paint him as a Major Dick to women?  This is not the Sweet Young John we saw in flashbacks, and I have a hard time reconciling who John was and who he seems to have become.  I realize the Hunter Life is hard, but that's still no excuse to completely change your personality and be a Class A Ass-Hole.

And....it's bad when you start quoting yourself.  Watch out if I start talking about myself in the third person. ;)

But thinking more about this - it really struck me as to the contrast between the two.  One the one hand, we have Cain, who was a First Knight of Hell and then fell In Love and gave up all his bad ways.  And not just while Colette was alive, but for a few millennia after her death also, as a way to honor her memory.  As I said above, now that's Love.

And then you have John, who fell In Love with Mary, but after her death (both at the hands of demons, so it ain't like he's got one over on Cain) he took up hunting and wasn't even really a good father to his sons - Mary's flesh and blood - not the way Mary would have wanted him to be, I'm sure.  And on top of that, he has some one night stands, is a bigger dick to women than Dick the Leviathan, and at least one illegitimate child 'cause he doesn't know the proper way to use a condom.  Way to honor Mary's memory, John.

I'm sure this was not what the episode was wanting me to take away.   But then it shouldn't have shown me the way Love can truly transform a person for good while also showing me a person who twisted Love into Revenge and general Ass-holey-ness at the same time.

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28 minutes ago, pixelcat said:

I'm curious what causes some to end up in purgatory, and some have the option of heaven/hell.  Vampires we've seen end up in purgatory, but they were originally human.  Do werewolves end up there as well?  Witches?  Aren't they still considered human?  It's really a shame we didn't see more of purgatory, I would've liked to have seen a few familiar faces show up (Lenore, Sam's werewolf girlfriend whose name I'm forgetting, and GORDON!!) and I would've liked to know what else is in there.

 

8 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I thought all monster souls--werewolved, vampires, ghouls...basically mutated humans--go to Purgatory. And, Heaven and Hell are for human souls. I always figured since angels didn't have a soul they just ceased to exist when they were killed. Demons, though, that's a good question. They have souls, just corrupted and tainted souls. Hmm...

Was it just vampires that were shown in Purgatory though?  I can't honestly remember.  The Leviathans were there also.  And I thought it was originally created to house them?  I thought we did see glimpses of other monsters in Purgatory.  Not sure about witches though.  But they never did answer what happens to them when they are 'killed' in Purgatory.  I guess they just cease to exist then.

I don't think the demons that are 'killed' go back to Hell.  Like @pixelcat said, we've never seen or heard of a dead demon getting out again.  I think that's the point (get it?  Haha!) of using the demon knife on them.  Maybe dead demons also go to Purgatory?

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16 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

One the one hand, we have Cain, who was a First Knight of Hell and then fell In Love and gave up all his bad ways.  And not just while Colette was alive, but for a few millennia after her death also, as a way to honor her memory.  As I said above, now that's Love.

I didn't get the impression she'd been dead for millennia, it looked like around the time of the Civil War to me.  So 150-ish years, give or take.  But still, excellent point!

And heading off topic, but

Spoiler

maybe dead demons/angels are sent off into The Empty.  And as Billie says, nothing comes back from that (except of course the Winchesters, should they happen to end up there)

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30 minutes ago, pixelcat said:

I didn't get the impression she'd been dead for millennia, it looked like around the time of the Civil War to me.  So 150-ish years, give or take.  But still, excellent point!

Oops!  Erp!  Good catch.  It was 1863.  I was thinking how long Cain had been around, not when Colette died.  Hm...which makes me wonder when he actually did meet her then...  

That also reminds me of another beef I had with the show right at the beginning.  As a Southerner myself, I did NOT appreciate that of course Confederate soldiers were demons.  Naw, that's not an overused trope at all.

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26 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Not sure about witches though.  But they never did answer what happens to them when they are 'killed' in Purgatory.  I guess they just cease to exist then.

Taken to the "What?..." thread.

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35 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Oops!  Erp!  Good catch.  It was 1863.  I was thinking how long Cain had been around, not when Colette died.  Hm...which makes me wonder when he actually did meet her then...  

That also reminds me of another beef I had with the show right at the beginning.  As a Southerner myself, I did NOT appreciate that of course Confederate soldiers were demons.  Naw, that's not an overused trope at all.

Hah just rewatched the start of the episode and sure enough it says 1863.  Also says Mississippi, so I just assumed the demons who were hunting Cain/protecting "The Knight" grabbed the nearest meatsuits, and being the South, it made sense to me for them to use Confederate soldiers.  Granted, with all the fighting in MS in 1863 they could've grabbed soldiers from either side, but I would guess being a Confederate (or at least dressed like one) would've made traveling through the state easier/safer.

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1 hour ago, pixelcat said:

Hah just rewatched the start of the episode and sure enough it says 1863.  Also says Mississippi, so I just assumed the demons who were hunting Cain/protecting "The Knight" grabbed the nearest meatsuits, and being the South, it made sense to me for them to use Confederate soldiers.  Granted, with all the fighting in MS in 1863 they could've grabbed soldiers from either side, but I would guess being a Confederate (or at least dressed like one) would've made traveling through the state easier/safer.

Yeah, but the show could have had the showdown set anywhere.  It could have been in Maine and the demons be Union soldiers.  But no - it had to be Confederate Demon soldiers.   Not really that big a deal to most people, I'm sure, but like I said, it's just a trope I see used way too often in Hollywood and it irks me.

Why does a Knight of Hell need lower demons protecting them anyway?  I mean, if Cain could kill Knights of Hell, how did the regular old demons they were going to "protect" the Knight?

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7 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Yeah, but the show could have had the showdown set anywhere.  It could have been in Maine and the demons be Union soldiers.  But no - it had to be Confederate Demon soldiers.   Not really that big a deal to most people, I'm sure, but like I said, it's just a trope I see used way too often in Hollywood and it irks me.

Where was Cain located when Dean and Crowley found him? Not that has anything to do with the evil Southerners trope, but I couldn't remember. For a minute there I was thinking he was still in Mississippi, but that doesn't make any sense if no one knew where he was anymore. I must be remembering this wrong.

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I would be okay with Crowley being Dean's permanent sidekick.  They're like two hard-partying guys out on the town drinking brewskies and carousing, while Sam and Cas are more inclined to sit in a coffee bar sipping mocha lattes and discussing philosophy.

Cain is awesome, and great back story for him.

Demons and angels sure have a high death count on this show.  They make it like there's a never-ending supply, but the angel population was seriously depleted by Cas awhile back, and the only demons walking the earth should be the ones that got out through the hell gate before Sam and Dean closed it, save for the occasional one that's summoned.  But I guess you can never run out of extras in red suits, haha!

Just a fun, action-oriented episode. 

Edited by Dobian
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And so it begins...I wish I liked this episode more in the end. There's bits and pieces I enjoy, but overall I always feel let down when I'm done watching it. Ah well, whatcha gonna do?

On 8/5/2016 at 8:59 AM, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Was the jawbone thing their take on Samson (who killed X number of Philistines with the jawbone of an ass).  I don't think the Bible ever said how Able was killed.  Or if if did, I don't remember.  And I'm too lazy to look it up right now.  I just always assumed he was strangled.  But then we wouldn't get that cool prop, would we?  With some teeth still intact.  Because the teeth wouldn't have fallen out a millennia ago. (Damn, and I thought I turned off the sarcasm font.  Guess not.)

As I recall, it's stated that Cain and Abel went out to the fields and Cain attacked Abel. So, no, I don't think it was never specified in the Bible what Cain used to kill Abel. For some reason, though, I have an image of Cain using a big rock. Maybe I saw a painting or something? I don't know.

On 8/19/2016 at 11:01 AM, Dobian said:

Demons and angels sure have a high death count on this show.  They make it like there's a never-ending supply, but the angel population was seriously depleted by Cas awhile back, and the only demons walking the earth should be the ones that got out through the hell gate before Sam and Dean closed it, save for the occasional one that's summoned.  But I guess you can never run out of extras in red suits, haha!

Heh, I've been snarking for years on the how there must be an angel factory somewhere because they're always saying there's so few of them, but low and behold there's always enough to slaughter on a battlefield a couple times a season. I've come to think I've been using the term "few" wrong all these years.

Edited by DittyDotDot
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Cas's sandwich looks like it only bread. "I miss you, PB and J." "You have a guinea pig? Where?" Is it just me or does he sound kind of excited about the prospect of a pet guinea pig. "Didn't you grow up pretty." Like the hunter pawn shop lady and her predicting demons like people predict bad weather. Cain scaring Crowley is nicely done, especially with the tea cup shaking.  I love when Psych and Supernatural share actors. And messing around on Tumblr leads me to discover that I failed to recognize Buzz as the angel Cas stole grace from. I am shamefaced. "Nothing is worth losing you!" Sam and Castiel bonding is kind of beautiful, and a nice change of pace from Dean and Cas. I like the twist on Cain and Abel here. Poor Collette. Aw, Sam and Cas hugging. I prefer the Cas/Sam team up over the Crowley/Dean team up. 

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So I read in some prior threads Dean was tricked  into taking the Mark of Cain.  Maybe that's explained in later episodes as it didn't seem that way to me.  Even had Gad not tricked Dean into letting him posses Sam, I can still see Dean wanting to eventually kill Abaddon and accepting the Mark of Cain in order to do so. Yeah Crowley sort of tricked Dean into fighting demons and helped Dean find Cain, but again Dean would have done it himself without much of a push,

btw, I love Timothy Omundson, hope to see him again. 

Nice that Cas retained some humanity.

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2 hours ago, Hanahope said:

So I read in some prior threads Dean was tricked  into taking the Mark of Cain.  Maybe that's explained in later episodes as it didn't seem that way to me.  Even had Gad not tricked Dean into letting him posses Sam, I can still see Dean wanting to eventually kill Abaddon and accepting the Mark of Cain in order to do so. Yeah Crowley sort of tricked Dean into fighting demons and helped Dean find Cain, but again Dean would have done it himself without much of a push,

btw, I love Timothy Omundson, hope to see him again. 

Nice that Cas retained some humanity.

I don't think Dean was 'tricked' into taking on the Mark, more that he wasn't given (nor did he ask for) all of the information about its repercussions. I do agree though, that even if he'd been warned, he might've taken it on anyway. Despite there being another way* to contain her (as they'd already done once), this was the only way to kill her most sincerely dead. I think given the guilt he was feeling over Sam and Kevin, Dean needed a win, and Abaddon was going to be it, come hell or high water.

* there is a very funny little gem waiting for you when you're caught up to S11 :)

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3 hours ago, Hanahope said:

So I read in some prior threads Dean was tricked  into taking the Mark of Cain.  Maybe that's explained in later episodes as it didn't seem that way to me.  Even had Gad not tricked Dean into letting him posses Sam, I can still see Dean wanting to eventually kill Abaddon and accepting the Mark of Cain in order to do so. Yeah Crowley sort of tricked Dean into fighting demons and helped Dean find Cain, but again Dean would have done it himself without much of a push,

btw, I love Timothy Omundson, hope to see him again. 

Nice that Cas retained some humanity.

That's odd. I don't remember anyone saying nor implying that Dean was tricked into anything here. I  know I certainly never said that. 

The fact is that Dean didn't know anything about the First Blade nor the Mark until Crowley told him about and manipulated him into being IN the situation to take on the Mark, which was Dean's rash decision, not unlike Ruby and Sam in s4.

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lassiter is cain! what a great guest appearance and great performance :) he's also pretty hot with that hair and beard, hehe.

i really don't understand this whole mark thingie, so i'm just going to have to see how it turns out.

tara was a neat character, but her complaining about john 20+yrs later and taking it out on his son...damn what did he do to you, lol. 

"You're good. But I'm Crowley." one of the BEST things this show gets best is demons and especially the character of crowley. i LOVE how he uses phrases and somehow makes them his own, as if he put them into existence. and even he being scared of cain...that's something. wow. him doing the cross sign really showed his fear 

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I love Timothy Osmudson so very much. I loved him in Psych and in Galavant. I haven't seen the new Psych movie yet and I haven't seen his work in This is Us, so the last time I saw him was when he was still early in his stroke recovery. I really miss his work and I hope he continues to recover and do more stuff. He was fantastic in this role. He really got the humor in the scene where he is just letting the fight happen. The story was compelling and interesting. It was one of my favorite one off stories, I think. 

I am sad about Tara, but not surprised. I would have loved to have her for more than an episode. Feels like a bit of a waste. 

I had to roll my eyes a bit at Dean taking the mark without even asking the consequences. Sure, you are going to say yes, but shouldn't you at least know what to expect? 

Sam and Castiel were really treading water but I LOVED getting to see some fallout from Castiel's time as a human. So often things get dropped after they are resolved on this show. Also, Castiel arguing that he is a good liar because he deceived the Winchester boys was hilarious. Also, I liked that they continued Sam's line of thinking from the first episode of the season. He said:

My life's not worth any more than anyone else's -- not yours or Dean's...or Kevin's. Please. Please, help me do one thing right. Keep going

It is consistent with his objection in episode one. And I think it is important insight into what has him willing to push even if it kills him. He doesn't want people to keep dying so he can live.  I liked the continuity there. AND I liked that he let it go and ultimately understood Castiel's perspective as well. 

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