Caitlyn Jenner: Call Me Caitlyn

[Kromm]

Ugh so we will be getting the Kim, Khloe, Kendall, and Kylie at the award?  I'm sorry, it's no longer an award, it's the Kardashian Award now with all four of the fame hunters in tow.  Blame this anger on the K-family for it.  It's now about  all the family being photographed showing, interviewed, etc.  It's now not about the award (which she should have won next year I think) and it's about this fame hungry family and Caitlyn is included too. Not watching this year because I don't want to see the duck lip poses of this family.

Wait.  They don't give out ESPYs for how many pro-athletes you let bone you?

Or is that just how the INVITES to the Awards go?

[Crucial]

Wait.  They don't give out ESPYs for how many pro-athletes you let bone you?

Or is that just how the INVITES to the Awards go?

I honestly don't know what you are referring to but I am talking about an Espy going to an 18 year old who died of brain cancer and who continued to fight all while she had it.   That young women should be honored instead of Caitlyn who received the award.  Caitlyn, now that we are seeing her voice more action in the trans community should be considered next year for this award.  MY opinion.  It's NOT a dig against her (she didn't even mention her community when this award was given to her), I don't think she deserves this award this year but next  year after her work in the community.

 

NO it's not how many invites you get.  I HATE that this fame hungry family is globbing on to an award for their own photo op.  Everyone that is attending are fame mongers - ALL of them.  So the comments about boning or invites are lost on me - sorry

Edited July 15, 2015 by Crucial

[Kromm]

I was being sarcastic about how the Ks are wrapped up in the sports community anyway because several of them had lots of sex with lots of athletes.  Well, when they weren't doing it with rappers or hip-hop artists.

 

In this case though it's certainly that the ESPYs are trying to maximize the media circus any way they can.

[Crucial]

I was being sarcastic about how the Ks are wrapped up in the sports community anyway because several of them had lots of sex with lots of athletes.  Well, when they weren't doing it with rappers or hip-hop artists.

 

In this case though it's certainly that the ESPYs are trying to maximize the media circus any way they can.

My fault Kromm, so I apologize for that.  Long day at work and I am not reading what is said.  Thank you for your patience.

[Artsda]

E! is reporting that all children including Kourtney and Brandon will be there except for Rob.

 

http://ca.eonline.com/news/676144/caitlyn-jenner-s-2015-espy-awards-dates-revealed-find-out-which-family-members-are-attending

 

It's going to be a family affair for Caitlyn Jenner at the ESPY Awards tomorrow, E! News can confirm.

Not only will the Olympic athlete be honored with the prestigious Arthur Ashe Courage Award, but she'll be joined by her children and stepchildren for the once-in-a-lifetime event.

Kourtney, Kim and Khloé Kardashian are all expected to attend Wednesday evening's affair along with Kylie and Kendall Jenner.

And that's not all…all of the Jenner children will be making an appearance to support the reality star as well including Brody Jenner, host of E!'s Sex With Brody", Burt and Brandon Jenner and Cassandra Marino.

[Kromm]

You know it's interesting how the narrative changes.  I didn't really remember all the details on Caitlyn's relationship with Cassandra (other than "generally neglectful), so I googled and found some old news stories vs. new ones.

 

Interesting reading comparing who says what and how in each of these--and not all of the comparison is simply about Bruce (and later Caitlyn) and Cassandra but also what the heck Bruce (or Caitlyn) is doing with his or her life at the time of the article in question.

 

20 February 2014: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2563939/Bruce-Jenners-daughter-Cassandra-Marino-opens-fathers-changing-looks.html

vs.

04 June 2015: http://www.justjared.com/2015/06/04/caitlyn-jenners-daughter-cassandra-marino-says-their-relationship-is-better-than-ever/

[howmanywords]

Well, the thing is technically the Kardashian/Jenners have every right to be there because family members of those getting awards are invited. Yes Its going to be a media circus anyway but they do have the right to be there. I remember when Michael Sam won the Arthur Ashe award he was photographed on the red carpet and in the audience with his boyfriend and family members. He was also someone that was surrounded with controversy about whether or not he was truly deserving of such an award.

[GaT]

Yes Its going to be a media circus anyway 

That's the only reason they're going to be there, they're working on getting ratings for Caitlyn's show.

[Artsda]

Based on Caitlyn's ratings for the Diane Sawyer and the special KUWTK, they don't need to work on getting ratings. The promos are being aired all over network tv. They have the ratings already. Whether none of the kids show at the ESPYs or 2 kids or all the kids. 

 

I do think they're going to show a united front and be there to support their father.

[Kromm]

That's the only reason they're going to be there, they're working on getting ratings for Caitlyn's show.

 

Based on Caitlyn's ratings for the Diane Sawyer and the special KUWTK, they don't need to work on getting ratings. The promos are being aired all over network tv. They have the ratings already. Whether none of the kids show at the ESPYs or 2 kids or all the kids. 

 

I do think they're going to show a united front and be there to support their father.

I think it's probably not one motive, but multiple. On one level I'm sure for most of them it's about supporting Caitlyn. But if we have to attribute a lower motive to this, then some of the K girls (well, mainly Kim) could ALSO be there to boost their OWN profiles/ratings/popularity/whatever, since for the moment stuff like Bruce's parenting and/or auto accidents Bruce was involved with are on the back burner and being seen honoring Caitlyn is simple good press.

 

Clearly some of them have less to gain than others.  I mean two of the six kids haven't had reality shows, right? At least I THINK the two oldest didn't, even if the middle ones did, the youngest two of course, as well of course as all of the step-kids have.

 

I suppose the real test will be if Kris manages to somehow show up and swan in front of the cameras.  I mean are any of the OTHER ex-wives coming? I dunno. Maybe.  We shall see.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Kromm

[howmanywords]

TMZ said Kris and the other ex wives aren't invited..that she wants her family to be there and her ex wives are no longer family.

[Kromm]

TMZ said Kris and the other ex wives aren't invited..that she wants her family to be there and her ex wives are no longer family.

It's an odd way to put it since the same logic could be used for ex-step-children.

 

I know most people don't feel that way (or even use the phrase "ex-step-children"), but the phrasing of that seems to feed into that kind of belief system.

[iwasish]

It's an odd way to put it since the same logic could be used for ex-step-children.

 

I know most people don't feel that way (or even use the phrase "ex-step-children"), but the phrasing of that seems to feed into that kind of belief system.

I agree, if she excises the former wives because of divorce then the step kids go by the wayside also.

[Dejana]

Well, the thing is technically the Kardashian/Jenners have every right to be there because family members of those getting awards are invited. Yes Its going to be a media circus anyway but they do have the right to be there. I remember when Michael Sam won the Arthur Ashe award he was photographed on the red carpet and in the audience with his boyfriend and family members. He was also someone that was surrounded with controversy about whether or not he was truly deserving of such an award.

 

It seems that to some, what the Kardashian/Jenners do in any circumstance matters less than the sort of people they are: apparently, tacky trash desperate for attention and fame at any cost. So, absolutely any sort of behavior on their part is viewed through the filter that it must be tacky/exploitative/trashy in some fashion, no matter how ordinary/innocuous these actions would seem, coming from anybody else. A person whose two-decade marriage didn't work out, still thinks of the ex's kids as stepkids? If you look around the country, this is not a unique phenomenon. A person getting an award doesn't have the ex-spouses there, cheering in seats? Real unusual. Yet, because the situation here involves the Jennerdashians—contemptible overexposed trash that they are—then there has to be an angle that makes their actions famewhorish, tacky, out of bounds, and worthy of scorn. They can't possibly know any other way to behave, so say their biggest detractors. Because they are awful human beings who suck, then by extension, everything they do is awful, somehow. Probably even walking the dog, or brushing their teeth.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Dejana

[Artsda]

Why would anyone in the world have 3 ex wives at an award ceremony? Do all the actors up for Emmys and Oscars bring all their ex's with them to the show?

 

Bruce and then Caitlyn raised those kids for 25 years. They look at him as their father, she looks at them as her kids. Because Kris isn't married to Bruce anymore doesn't make all those years of being a father go away. They're not "nothing" to each other. Caitlyn loves them as her own and as family. Marriage certificate or not.

 

They're not ex-step children. They're her children, period. They were before and they are now after. 

[millennium]

Ugh so we will be getting the Kim, Khloe, Kendall, and Kylie at the award?  I'm sorry, it's no longer an award, it's the Kardashian Award now with all four of the fame hunters in tow.  Blame this anger on the K-family for it.  It's now about  all the family being photographed showing, interviewed, etc.  It's now not about the award

 

The award is a joke, obviously.   By transitioning Jenner hasn't done anything more courageous than hundreds of other people do every year, and have been doing for decades without applause or accolades of any kind.   It could be reasonably argued that Jenner's "journey" is, in fact, far less courageous than that of the average transgender person who embarks on a new life with few if any assurances, including financial/job security, the support of family and friends, no guarantee of how well they'll pass or be accepted as a member of their new gender, etc.

 

I don't see the courage in revealing yourself in a big-bucks Vanity Fair spread produced by Annie Liebowitz, wardrobe, hair and makeup experts, and the PR team at the E Network -- complete with a Diane Sawyer interview, your own TV show, highly paid speaking engagements and a benefits package that includes full politically-correct immunity from public criticism.   It's like "The Swan" and "Miss America" rolled into one.

 

Where's the bravery in that?

[howmanywords]

It seems that to some, what the Kardashian/Jenners do in any circumstance matters less than the sort of people they are: apparently, tacky trash desperate for attention and fame at any cost. So, absolutely any sort of behavior on their part is viewed through the filter that it must be tacky/exploitative/trashy in some fashion, no matter how ordinary/innocuous these actions would seem, coming from anybody else. A person whose two-decade marriage didn't work out, still thinks of the ex's kids as stepkids? If you look around the country, this is not a unique phenomenon. A person getting an award doesn't have the ex-spouses there, cheering in seats? Real unusual. Yet, because the situation here involves the Jennerdashians—contemptible overexposed trash that they are—then there has to be an angle that makes their actions famewhorish, tacky, out of bounds, and worthy of scorn. They can't possibly know any other way to behave, so say their biggest detractors. Because they are awful human beings who suck, then by extension, everything they do is awful, somehow. Probably even walking the dog, or brushing their teeth.

Yes to all this.  This is what I hit on the other day when Kanye's motives were questioned because he actually GASP did something nice for his nephew who's going through a rough time. Hey I can admit as much as the next person that the Kardashians are annoying and famewhores, its just I dont think EVERY single thing they do has a motive attached. So much of what they do is damned if you do, damned if you dont. I've seen a lot of people say Caitlyn should have declined the award..I feel like even if she did do that there would have been people calling her ungrateful for turning it down.

 

The award is a joke, obviously.   By transitioning Jenner hasn't done anything more courageous than hundreds of other people do every year, and have been doing for decades without applause or accolades of any kind.   It could be reasonably argued that Jenner's "journey" is, in fact, far less courageous than that of the average transgender person who embarks on a new life with few if any assurances, including financial/job security, the support of family and friends, no guarantee of how well they'll pass or be accepted as a member of their new gender, etc.

 

 Do you think the award in general is a joke or its a joke this year because of who is getting it? If you look back on some of the people who have won it in the past  some of them are very respected people like Nelson Mandela, Billie Jean King and Mohammad Ali. Some of the recipients very much defined everything the award is about. As I said upthread, the same controversy we're seeing with Caitlyn occurred when Michael Sam was given the award.  Many felt he wasnt deserving simply because he was the first openly gay pro football player.

[millennium]

Yes to all this.  This is what I hit on the other day when Kanye's motives were questioned because he actually GASP did something nice for his nephew who's going through a rough time. Hey I can admit as much as the next person that the Kardashians are annoying and famewhores, its just I dont think EVERY single thing they do has a motive attached. So much of what they do is damned if you do, damned if you dont. I've seen a lot of people say Caitlyn should have declined the award..I feel like even if she did do that there would have been people calling her ungrateful for turning it down.

 

 Do you think the award in general is a joke or its a joke this year because of who is getting it? If you look back on some of the people who have won it in the past  some of them are very respected people like Nelson Mandela, Billie Jean King and Mohammad Ali. Some of the recipients very much defined everything the award is about. As I said upthread, the same controversy we're seeing with Caitlyn occurred when Michael Sam was given the award.  Many felt he wasnt deserving simply because he was the first openly gay pro football player.

 

I have no problem amending it to say "the award has become a joke."   

 

I might quibble with Sam receiving it (simply because coming out isn't all that unique), but in the end he came out at a critical time in his career, when such an announcement could have had a decidedly negative impact on his life and livelihood.   He risked it all and stood to lose much. 

 

But Jenner?  He was a wrinkled old man, filthy rich, with his glory days long behind him.   He had become a footnote, an afterthought, in the shadow of his famous children.

 

It's just not the same.

Edited July 15, 2015 by millennium

[Artsda]

Caitlyn's got Angelina Jolie's stylist. She got a better stylist than (other than Kendall) the rest. LOL

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-style/news/caitlyn-jenner-hires-angelina-jolies-stylist-for-espys-details-2015147

[Cocoa Puff]

Fame Whoring family aside a friend on Facebook had this to say about Caitlyn getting the award.

 

 

I'm seriously tired of hearing people say Caitlyn isn't a hero and blah blah blah. The Espy award is for being courageous, for doing something in a world where what you did rises above and inspires others. Sports are homophobic. Everyone knows this. That is why she's getting this award.

This isn't about who is better than who and oh she's not as courageous as a soldier. Courage comes in all forms.

I don't think most people understand what it feels like to announce to the heteronormative world you are different. Different to the point that people hate you without even knowing you. Consider yourselves lucky that you don't have too.

[Kromm]

They're not ex-step children. They're her children, period. They were before and they are now after. 

The comment I made wasn't denying this was the case.  Just that the phrasing of the thing was odd (that's why I said "odd way to put it").

 

As for the ex-wives? That was more a joke about how over-the-top exploitative Kris is of any situation (that she'd probably try to show up even if none of the other exes did and make a big production of things).  C'mon... there's no need to defend her on that, because it's true (so good thing she's "not family"--someone, probably Caitlyn, realized Kris might try and milk it).

[Kromm]

I have no problem amending it to say "the award has become a joke."   

 

I might quibble with Sam receiving it (simply because coming out isn't all that unique), but in the end he came out at a critical time in his career, when such an announcement could have had a decidedly negative impact on his life and livelihood.   He risked it all and stood to lose much. 

 

But Jenner?  He was a wrinkled old man, filthy rich, with his glory days long behind him.   He had become a footnote, an afterthought, in the shadow of his famous children.

 

It's just not the same.

This is a good point.  Sam risked ending his career in his youth, and that probably included a certain degree of physical danger from people "catching up" to him in stadium parking lots to "teach him a lesson" or some such nonsense.  He wasn't operating from a place of strength, financially, socially, or really in ANY sense, and did it anyway.

 

Caitlyn risked little in terms of financial or physical well-being, even if the social aspects maybe could have hurt emotionally quite a bit if people hadn't rallied.

 

So yeah, they're hardly the same.  The scale of the risk was totally different.

 

As it is (likely because lets be honest, he's not that gifted a player) Sam has to be happy now playing Canadian Football.

[Crucial]

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/caitlyn-jenner-espys-award-demands/

 

So you have your team go to ESPN and ask for the award.  What a Kris Jenner move.  Maybe this is how it's done all the time and I don't remember ever hearing about it (I really don't think the last two winners Robin Roberts and Michael Sam went to ESPN and asked but hey I could be wrong).   Give ESPN mentions on your show in exchange for the award.  I blame ESPN more than Caitlyn's team because, if this is true, then they only want ratings.

[Artsda]

 

Jenner has announced she will skip the red carpet, however.

She's not walking the red carpet? Wow, thought that would be the main attention getting part with having the kids there. A group shot of Caitlyn with Kim, Khloe, Kourt, Kylie and Kendall would be huge. 

 

May be they know that and intend to do their own shoot and sell to highest magazine bidder? 

Edited July 15, 2015 by Artsda

[millennium]

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/caitlyn-jenner-espys-award-demands/

 

So you have your team go to ESPN and ask for the award.  What a Kris Jenner move.  Maybe this is how it's done all the time and I don't remember ever hearing about it (I really don't think the last two winners Robin Roberts and Michael Sam went to ESPN and asked but hey I could be wrong).   Give ESPN mentions on your show in exchange for the award.  I blame ESPN more than Caitlyn's team because, if this is true, then they only want ratings.

 

According to the article, it wasn't an ask.   Jenner's handlers went to ESPN, suggested Jenner receive the award and later threatened to back out of the Diane Sawyer interview if Jenner wasn't given the award.

 

Ballsy move.  But I don't think that's the brand of courage the award was intended to honor.

 

 Meanwhile the spirited college basketball player who died of cancer is ignored.

Edited July 15, 2015 by millennium

[Kromm]

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/caitlyn-jenner-espys-award-demands/

 

So you have your team go to ESPN and ask for the award.  What a Kris Jenner move.  Maybe this is how it's done all the time and I don't remember ever hearing about it (I really don't think the last two winners Robin Roberts and Michael Sam went to ESPN and asked but hey I could be wrong).   Give ESPN mentions on your show in exchange for the award.  I blame ESPN more than Caitlyn's team because, if this is true, then they only want ratings.

A rumor so far, but I think we all have various gut feelings here.  It SOUNDS very like the Kardashian Nation and it's offshoots, but that could be exactly what someone is counting on. Because, to be fair, if someone wanted to totally destroy Jenner, even a rumor about this might (may) be enough.

 

I guess this is a wait and see (and hold back on any real shitstorm of commentary). There are a lot of issues about how this all went down for me (I sort of fell around the same place as Bob Costas), but it's another huge leap above simple grousing about how convenient this award was to conclude (without some actual evidence) that this was simply bribery/payola to keep that interview on ABC.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Kromm

[Kromm]

L.A. Times: Is Caitlyn Jenner the wrong honoree for ESPYs' courage award?
 
A lot of general stuff, but this quote is relevant:
 

ESPY producers this week continued to defend their choice of Jenner and insisted that there was no quid pro quo arrangement.
 
"There is absolutely no connection between the interview and the award," said an ABC spokesperson. "There's simply no truth to that claim."

Washington Post: Why ESPN chose Caitlyn Jenner for ESPY courage award (from July 13, so admittedly before the latest round of rumors)
 
The producer, Maura Mandt, basically says SHE took the Caitlyn idea to ESPN and pitched it.  Which is crass, sure, but not payola (IF she's telling the truth).
 

Maura Mandt, whose company produces the ESPYs show, explained the selection process to SI.com’s Richard Deitsch, saying that there were no runners-up.

“There are no finalists or people that vote on it. That has never been the case,” Mandt said. “That was something that was completely not true, which I know was out in the media.” From Deitsch:

Mandt said that while Jenner was kept around as a possible candidate if there was some sort of announcement, the research continued on other stories last winter. She said that the ESPY staff found about Jenner’s decision when everyone else did – the Diane Sawyer interview in April. Mandt said that’s when additional vetting started for a potential award to Jenner.

Mandt’s company, MaggieVision Productions, took its recommendation then to ESPN. Delivering during a ratings-challenged month wasn’t part of the consideration.

more details from Mandt via Sports Illustrated (July 12): ESPN's decision to give Caitlyn Jenner an ESPY award, more Media Circus

 

ESPN is totally backtracking/covering their asses in one way though: Lauren Hill to be honored at ESPY Awards (Hill was one of the people a lot said should have gotten the Courage Award--well, posthumously since she's deceased).  So I guess it's like a... mini Courage Award?

Edited July 15, 2015 by Kromm

[Crucial]

According to the article, it wasn't an ask.   Jenner's handlers went to ESPN, suggested Jenner receive the award and later threatened to back out of the Diane Sawyer interview if Jenner wasn't given the award.

 

Ballsy move.  But I don't think that's the brand of courage the award was intended to honor.

 

 Meanwhile the spirited college basketball player who died of cancer is ignored.

 

Yeah, I agree about that it wasn't an ask but wanted to give some small benefit of doubt even though it's obvious what the handlers did.  And what sucks is the college player who died - who SHOULD be getting the award - wouldn't generate the attention ESPN needs and wants.  ESPN has a Kardashian who generates clicks, mentions, talks, etc.  ESPN did that, they got people talking about them.  Make no mistake Caitlyn is a Kardashian, she is tied with this bunch of fame whores until the end.  It's not about an award, its about the attention. 

L.A. Times: Is Caitlyn Jenner the wrong honoree for ESPYs' courage award?

 

A lot of general stuff, but this quote is relevant:

ESPN is totally backtracking/covering their asses in one way though: Lauren Hill to be honored at ESPY Awards (Hill was one of the people a lot said should have gotten the Courage Award--well, posthumously since she's deceased).  So I guess it's like a... mini Courage Award?

 But would they really say that's what they did?  It would make sense for them to say they didn't do that.

 

Glad they are honoring Lauren but it kind of bugs that they were 'forced' to honor her when she should have won.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Crucial

[Kromm]

 But would they really say that's what they did?  It would make sense for them to say they didn't do that.

Yes, but it would also involve convincing Maura Mandt to lie (and in theory take most of the heat over the decision, assuming anyone actually believes it was her idea).

[GaT]

Yes, but it would also involve convincing Maura Mandt to lie (and in theory take most of the heat over the decision, assuming anyone actually believes it was her idea).

We should keep an eye out & see if there are any announcements of Maura Mandt getting a great new job or something like that.

[Crucial]

She produces the Espy's show, the show that will get mentions on Caitlyn's show.  Good advertisement for the show and ESPN, right?  I'm willing to bet a whole episode is on this Espy's for Caitlyn on her show.  She wins if she doesn't say it was all Jenner camp.  A Kardashian wins ratings wise hands down compared to anyone else. 

[millennium]

Because, to be fair, if someone wanted to totally destroy Jenner, even a rumor about this might (may) be enough.

 

 

 

You think?   radar-online could produce a signed receipt for the purchase of one ESPN Courage Award and the kool-aid drinkers would still hail Jenner as brave and almighty.   Jenner's a lot like OJ Simpson in that regard, or Lance Armstrong.   They all have their followers.  People who want to believe and who WILL believe no matter what.  

 

I'm waiting for hubris to take Jenner down.   And when it does, the media will be all over it.   They only thing the press loves more than creating heroes is tearing them down later.

[Artsda]

Once I saw all the kids in black I knew Caitlyn would wear white.

[Fostersmom]

I have to say, I've always wondered how Bruce was supposedly a very high priced and in demand public speaker. Really, Bruce Jenner? Never seemed all that compelling or articulate.

 

Seeing Caitlyn's speech tonight, I totally get it. Once she really started rolling with her speech, I could 100% see why companies would pay big money. Yes, the beginning was vapid nonsense about hair and make up, but once she got past that and got serious, her speech was really quite excellent. I've been at corporate meetings with random speakers who were supposed to motive us employees to go back to our jobs and be all rah-rah and work harder to make the company more money. You tend to walk away thinking "who was that person again?" and "well that was a waste of time." If Bruce's generic corporate speeches were anywhere as well done as her speech tonight, it makes total sense. I hope Caitlyn uses her skills wisely and keeps up with the public speaking. 

[Maysie]

I haven't been following this too much -- I mean I know it's happening and I have some opinions about it -- but I kind of view it as similar to the "lifetime achievement" awards that are handed out at various awards ceremonies. There is no contest, no competition such as there's a winner and loser (though God knows we can't call anyone a loser anymore). It's a random honor at a random time, in my opinion, basically some public acknowledgment.

 

I think there's always political maneuvering, grandstanding, deals made, etc. with most of these achievement awards (I mean I grew up realizing that some of them were given out because well, so and so's barely upright anymore so it's time to honor him before he kicks off - that kind of thing). I'm not saying that the people who get these awards don't deserve them but I always look at these things with a bit of the side eye because they are so completely subjective.

 

Would Caitlyn Jenner have been my first choice? I doubt it. But I won't begrudge her her night in the sun. The fact is, however, that when she's long gone I'm not remembering her as "Caitlyn Jenner, ESPY winner," I'm remembering her as "Caitlyn Jenner, formerly Olympian Bruce Jenner."

[jonesingjay]

@Maysie reminds me of a star on the Hollywood Walk Of Fame. 

[Artsda]

I hope Caitlyn uses her skills wisely and keeps up with the public speaking.

She will, she signed a deal with  CAA’s speakers department.

[Darknight]

I think people define courage in different ways. I see a lot of posts comparing Caitlin to our soldiers. Saying that our Soldiers have no courage than what Caitlin is doing. But I disagree. Everyone looks at courage in a different way. The one thing I can say from all this is that Caitlin did bring awareness to the transgender community. Just like other transgender people did. That takes a lot of courage to publicity announce how you're feeling and hoe you were born in the wrong body.

[GaT]

I saw part of his speech, & I couldn't figure out what seemed strange to me until I realized that hearing Bruce's voice coming out of some woman just seems off to me.

[RealityCowgirl]

I didn't wait up for her speech, but I did semi-watch (husband is a sports fan) a good share of the earlier presentations. It pretty much confirmed what I remembered and why I've not gotten too worked up over Caitlyn's nomination. It's not the Nobel Prize, it's the Espys.

My only cause for pause was it being attached to Arthur Ashe's incredible legacy. Beyond that, they all seem to be pretty random/subjective (hard to pick between apples and oranges) wins. And, I must admit, the K-J clan - which I was relieved to not see in crowd shots for 90 minutes or so - were no more WTF than most of the non-sports celebrities for me. They were there in support of their parent.

Edited July 16, 2015 by RealityCowgirl

[Maysie]

 

@Maysie reminds me of a star on the Hollywood Walk Of Fame.

 

Exactly!

[HumblePi]

I watched only enough to get slightly nauseous then changed the channel before I actually got to the vomiting stage. I honestly think that Bruce Jenner had a far prettier female face than Caitlyn has despite all her plastic surgery to make her look feminine. That funky left eye is a bit distracting but it's most likely a result of Botox injected too close to a facial nerve. That should get better in a few months.

[iwasish]

The wonky eye is bad enough, but wish she didn't have that affectation of keeping her mouth open when she isn't speaking. I guess its to keep from f ing up her  lipstick, but I find it distracting. She also has a weird habit of keeping her fingers splayed apart all the time.

 

I was glad to see that there were so few shots of the K klan. Interesting that only her mother, sister and Kendall spoke on camera.

 

Some of the early clips showed how much Brandon and  Brody look like him and SOUND like him.

[parisprincess]

I saw part of his speech, & I couldn't figure out what seemed strange to me until I realized that hearing Bruce's voice coming out of some woman just seems off to me.

 

Same here.  Although I was watching Caitlyn, all I could see, hearing that voice, was Bruce in a gown.

[parisprincess]

On one of the entertainment news shows tonight, they pointed out Caitlyn's two youngest daughters and three step-daughters in the audience, while ignoring her three sons and daughter from her first two marriages.  If they weren't delivered by Pimpmama, I guess they don't count.

[bichonblitz]

When is her voice going to stop sounding like Bruce? It's weird. I thought once you started with the hormones, the voice became more feminine as well. It has with Janet Mock and Laverne Cox. Right now Caitlin just looks like Bruce dressed in drag with that manly voice to go with it. 

[millennium]

When is her voice going to stop sounding like Bruce? It's weird. I thought once you started with the hormones, the voice became more feminine as well. It has with Janet Mock and Laverne Cox. Right now Caitlin just looks like Bruce dressed in drag with that manly voice to go with it. Horm

 

Hormones don't change the voice.   By young adulthood the male vocal chords are irrevocably thickened.   There is surgery said to alleviate some of it, but it is very risky and the effectiveness is dubious.

 

Transgender women change their voice through vocal training.   It takes a great deal of determination, practice and constant vigilance to modulation.

 

The fact that Jenner doesn't seem even to make an effort to feminize the voice says (to me anyway) a lot about the, um, special nature of Jenner's situation.

 

Jenner doesn't HAVE to try to fix the voice because Jenner will never be in the position of having to try to pass.  Jenner will never NEED to blend in with other women, never NEED to secure a job where employers might cringe at the prospect of a woman with a man's voice dealing with clients, etc.   Never need to complete the image simply to keep from being read and possibly beaten or harassed.  

 

 I would have thought that Jenner would WANT a more feminine-sounding voice but maybe it's just too much effort, especially for someone who's femininity is entirely store-bought and managed by other people.    Jenner is surrounded by flatterers who will say "what an amazing woman you are" regardless that the sound coming from his mouth is that of a grandfather.   Jesus, the newspapers were describing Jenner as a "goddess" today.   Has everyone lost their minds?

 

I can't believe that the cis-gendered women of the world are taking this sitting down.   Hasn't it occurred to them that the only 65-year-old woman society seems to care about is one who was born a man?   No other 65-year-old woman will appear on Vanity Fair or be given her own TV show, lucrative speaking contracts or offered endorsement deals by Estee Lauder.  Does male privilege now extend to womanhood too?   

Edited July 17, 2015 by millennium

[Coffeecup]

Great post, millennium.

I am perplexed by people calling Jenner a "goddess" too. That's ridiculous. Yes, she looks good, but so would anybody else, with that much plastic surgery, a glam squad and designer clothes. But "goddess"? Oh, please! *rolling eyes*

[Kromm]

I can't believe that the cis-gendered women of the world are taking this sitting down.   Hasn't it occurred to them that the only 65-year-old woman society seems to care about is one who was born a man?   No other 65-year-old woman will appear on Vanity Fair or be given her own TV show, lucrative speaking contracts or offered endorsement deals by Estee Lauder.  Does male privilege now extend to womanhood too?   

It's probably not Politically Correct to point this out!

 

You rebel!  Heh.

 

Although I'm not sure I agree with the earlier part of the post (the part about why Jenner may or may not bother to feminize her voice).  I honestly don't know what's in her mind on this subject and wouldn't want to venture a guess.   But the fact that this particular 65-year old woman is getting plenty of "special treatment" way beyond what any other 65 year old woman gets?  Yup.  That's kinda messed up in a way.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Kromm

[jonesingjay]

When is her voice going to stop sounding like Bruce? It's weird. I thought once you started with the hormones, the voice became more feminine as well. It has with Janet Mock and Laverne Cox. Right now Caitlin just looks like Bruce dressed in drag with that manly voice to go with it. 

 

Unfortunately her voice won't change. It's interesting what hormones can do. For FTMs your voice will deepen.