NFL Thread

[Crs97]

 

The play call was horrible, but I can't get with the announcers' "I can't believe they didn't kick it" hand wringing.  Odds of picking up a yard (again, with a different play) vs. odds of a kicker who's fucked up more than once at 40-ish yards making a FG at 50-ish?  When a miss either way means turning it over on downs in an area of the field the defense has a decent chance of handling.  Yeah, I'm going for it.

Frankly, by that point of the game I was looking for the punter.  I thought they had the best shot of pinning the Ravens back deep and trying to get good field position after a 3 and out.  I know it's Flacco and all, but the Ravens certainly weren't lighting it up on offense.  After watching Vick and Scoobe, I'd have taken my chances with the defense and a possible pick-six.

[BitterApple]

Reports are out today that the Steelers are auditioning kickers in the wake of Scobee's performance last night. I'm not sure if it's fair to place the entire blame for the loss on his shoulders, because it certainly wasn't a stellar coaching job by Tomlin either, but two missed FG's in the fourth quarter is no bueno.

Edited October 2, 2015 by BitterApple

[xaxat]

On the season, Scobee has missed an extra point, four field goals and a Raven deflected a kick that he made. 

 

Time for him to go.

[Ohwell]

 Steelers are my second favorite team, behind the Redskins.  Time to drop-kick Scobee.

[benteen]

Yeah, I can't believe anyone was complaining about them not going for a 50-year field goal when the kicker had missed two from forty-plus.  I didn't think going for it on fourth down was a bad idea but the playcalling was horrible.  Punting would have been a better option.

[DrSpaceman73]

I was shocked by the poor play calls by both coaches.

Everyone focuses on Tomlin, but I have no idea why Harbaugh tried that fake FG and didn't just take the 3 points.

Heinz field though is probably the hardest stadium in the NFL for kickers. Not sure why, but anything over 45 yards becomes pretty iffy. You don't see many 50+ yard FGs like it seems is routine in other stadiums. I think the longest ever there is like 52 yards.

And both teams missed on 4th downs. Ravens had 2nd and 1 and run three times and can't gain a yard.

That was just a poor play call in my opinion by the Steelers if you are going for it on 4th down. Its a great play call if you have Big Ben. That is not a throw Vick could ever make routinely. Do a fake handoff and role him out. quick slant to WR or use Miller on a quick throw. Something.

Mostly this game pointed out big problems for Pitt without Roethlisberger and for the Ravens in general, unable to pick up critical 4th and short plays.

[mojoween]

Heinz field though is probably the hardest stadium in the NFL for kickers.

They gave a stat on Mike & Mike yesterday, I don't remember the number, but Heinz Field is well below the league average at made field goals over 40 yards.

Holy moly I just got an alert that Steve Smith broke four ribs in Thursday's game. So he sat and rode the bike for hours thinking he had a back problem. He is one tough mofo anyways.

Edited October 3, 2015 by mojoween

[Constantinople]

Perhaps he should have tried an exorcism instead since, arguably, Cowboys fans are possessed by the Devil

 

Priest who is a Giants fan points antique gun at 8 year old for being a Cowboys fan

[merylinkid]

 

 

 

Perhaps he should have tried an exorcism instead since, arguably, Cowboys fans are possessed by the Devil

 

Look, fans have absolutely no control over who owns the team.

[ganesh]

That priest should be summarily stripped of his vestments and thrown out on the street. 

[Ohwell]

Redskins won.  Now I can digest my dinner.

[Bastet]

The Giants are still not fully grasping the concept that a game has four quarters, and they have to play all four of them, are they?

 

They're lucky that the Bills are even better at shooting themselves in the foot, and there has been improvement.  But this is still a big problem that Coughlin has somehow got to get under control.

[mojoween]

Thankfully, Rex does not teach discipline, or it could have been another disaster.

[benteen]

I'm happy with the Giants win although I agree, they need to learn how to play four quarters.

 

Despite the lack of sacks, I'm happier than I thought I would be with the defense.  They get key turnovers, they make tackles and are tenacious.  Spag has improved the D already...I just wish they had a pass rusher or two.

[Rick Kitchen]

This is the worst 49ers team in a loooooooooong time.  It's pathetic when the whole home crowd is rooting for the visiting team.

[twoods]

Stupid Bills. I knew that when Rex was hired the team would lack discipline and I was right. What I didn't understand was the weird calls- they let the Giants receivers push off but the Bills get flagged for it, and the corners hold the Bills receivers and don't get flagged, but the Bills try to be aggressive and get flagged. At least call it even.

[merylinkid]

Dammit Browns.   Really offsides on the FG kick?

 

And don't even get me started on the Cards falling apart.

[DrSpaceman73]

Seems the kickers are having a much harder time this year than previously and not just because of the extra length on etxra points.

[ganesh]

It's the Pats. They have agents at every stadium deflating the balls. 

[yourpointis]

This is the worst 49ers team in a loooooooooong time.  It's pathetic when the whole home crowd is rooting for the visiting team.

 

Try attending a Rams home game lol.

Stupid Bills. I knew that when Rex was hired the team would lack discipline and I was right. What I didn't understand was the weird calls- they let the Giants receivers push off but the Bills get flagged for it, and the corners hold the Bills receivers and don't get flagged, but the Bills try to be aggressive and get flagged. At least call it even.

 

 

Substitute the Giants with the Seahawks and the Bills with any team in the league and that's what happens almost every Sunday.

And don't even get me started on the Cards falling apart.

 

I don't know if you're a fan or you just picked them to win this week, but thankfully the Rams D didn't put him out for the rest of the season like they did last season. 

 

 

Joe Philbin may be in need of a job by days end this Monday.

Edited October 5, 2015 by yourpointis

[mojoween]

I don't understand why so many teams are wearing white at home lately. I mean, New Orleans, it's nighttime and you're in a dome. Wear your black shirts!

[ganesh]

What's the working theory about the massive amount of flags? 

[Ohwell]

I don't understand why so many teams are wearing white at home lately. I mean, New Orleans, it's nighttime and you're in a dome. Wear your black shirts!

I thought home teams generally wore white.  It's what I remember since I've been watching sports (a loooooong time).

[DrSpaceman73]

What's the working theory about the massive amount of flags?

There are a lot of illegal formation flags. They tweaked the rules based on NEs (in this case) legal exploitation of the rules last year and I think its creating more of these calls.

[merylinkid]

 

What's the working theory about the massive amount of flags?

 

Less practice time per the CBA.   So less time to work on not screwing up.   Although you would think that people who had been playing football since they were kids would know basics like offside and pass interference.

[ganesh]

Oh ok. So it's the Pats fault again.

 

I know it's not fair to compare, but even if you commit a foul in soccer the ref has the discretion to not call it. There's just too many stoppages. 

[Fukui San]

There are a lot of illegal formation flags. They tweaked the rules based on NEs (in this case) legal exploitation of the rules last year and I think its creating more of these calls.

The rules tweak only had to do with substitutions and reporting as eligible/ineligible.  That shouldn't affect 99% of plays.

 

I just think there's a loooooot of bad football being played this year so far. 

[Moose135]

I thought home teams generally wore white.  It's what I remember since I've been watching sports (a loooooong time).

In the NFL (and NHL), the home team usually wears the "colorful" jersey.  In the case of New Orleans this week, I think it is because they are playing Dallas - the 'Boys almost always wear their white "road" colors at home, meaning they end up wearing white almost all the time.  By wearing white, the Saints force Dallas to wear their blue "home" colors, something they rarely do.

 

In fact, according to this article, as of last season, Dallas had worn their blue jerseys at home only twice in team history.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Moose135

[ganesh]

My own working theory is that the quality of play has degraded with the regular Thursday night games. 

[Ohwell]

OK, this is from wikipedia:

 

"Additionally, in baseball and basketball, the home team will typically choose to wear the lighter colored version of its uniform. In fact, many teams have a home uniform which is mostly white and referred to as the "home whites".[citation needed] The road team will generally wear a version of its uniform with one of the darker of its official colors as the main color, or in baseball with a grey main color referred to as the "road greys". In American football and hockey, the home team tends to wear uniforms that feature their team colors, whereas the visiting team will wear white or a lighter color.[citation needed]"

 

So I'm thinking about baseball and basketball mostly.

[Rick Kitchen]

Jimmy Johnson was really ragging on Kaepernick today.  Not only saying the 49ers need a new qb, but comparing him to a sand lot player.  And Jimmy said today's 49er offensive stats were the worst in any 49er game since 1964.

[yourpointis]

Jimmy Johnson was really ragging on Kaepernick today.  Not only saying the 49ers need a new qb, but comparing him to a sand lot player.  And Jimmy said today's 49er offensive stats were the worst in any 49er game since 1964.

 

Whether I agree with Jimmy Johnson or not, I am glad he said what he said. I am beyond tired of sports analysts or commentators always sugar coating their comments for fear of being fined or getting some type of smack down by the league. JMHO

[DrSpaceman73]

Oh ok. So it's the Pats fault again.

 

I know it's not fair to compare, but even if you commit a foul in soccer the ref has the discretion to not call it. There's just too many stoppages.

They specifically changed the rules based on the formation the Pats were using in the playoffs.

You can not like it if you'd like, but thats a simple fact.

[ganesh]

Well, that was a great way to get your 400th TD pass.

 

They specifically changed the rules based on the formation the Pats were using in the playoffs.

You can not like it if you'd like, but thats a simple fact.

 

But

The rules tweak only had to do with substitutions and reporting as eligible/ineligible.  That shouldn't affect 99% of plays.

 

So, I don't see the relevance of this response. But whatever. There's more flags is my point, it slows up the game even more, and it seems that this pov is supported by others.

 

It's a simple fact that the quality of play thus far has been poor and there's been a lot more flags, anecdotal. 

Edited October 5, 2015 by ganesh

[merylinkid]

Damn fool Cowboys.   I thought the defense was supposed to keep them in it until Romo and Dez were back.   Clearly not.

[DrSpaceman73]

The rules tweak only had to do with substitutions and reporting as eligible/ineligible. That shouldn't affect 99% of plays.

I just think there's a loooooot of bad football being played this year so far.

It was a bit more than that.

They changed the places where those players with an eligibile number (1-49 and 80-89) could line up along the line of srcimmage if they are considered inelligable receivers. They can't line up outside the tackle box.

And I have seen more illegal formation calls on offenses this year. I don't know thats the reason but its the only change to the formation rules for offense.

Also defenses can't stack 6 players on one side of the ball during a kick. I saw this called as well.

4th missed kick for the win in a week. But Drew Brees save the game for the kicker this time

Edited October 5, 2015 by DrSpaceman73

[merylinkid]

But eligible/ineligible receivers are not the calls being made.   It's offsides, 12 men on the field (saw that about 3 times today), false start, OPI/DPI, taunting.   Basic stuff.   If there has been a call on ineligible receivers, I don't remember it yet this season.   Could be there have been a couple.   But it is NOT what is causing the flurry of flags.

[DrSpaceman73]

Well, that was a great way to get your 400th TD pass.

 

But

So, I don't see the relevance of this response. But whatever. There's more flags is my point, it slows up the game even more, and it seems that this pov is supported by others.

 

It's a simple fact that the quality of play thus far has been poor and there's been a lot more flags, anecdotal.

The relevance is someone asked why there are mor penalties this year and I was pointing out the main rules changes that had been made which could result in the increased penalties.

[ganesh]

 

But eligible/ineligible receivers are not the calls being made.   It's offsides, 12 men on the field (saw that about 3 times today), false start, OPI/DPI, taunting.   Basic stuff.   If there has been a call on ineligible receivers, I don't remember it yet this season.   Could be there have been a couple.   But it is NOT what is causing the flurry of flags.

^That's what I was saying/asking. There hasn't been weird penalties due to eligible formation changes. It's not due to these main rules changes.

 

Give me a break. Your casual fan isn't paying attention to where eligible receivers are positioned on the field. Hardcore fans who know where the slot receiver lines up for a slant or a go are going to keep watching. The NFL doesn't need to market to them. They need the people who might get together for a work thing on Thursday night to watch a football game. Except these national games are 3+ hours. No one wants to get home past midnight and have to go to work the next day. You get flags every three plays, and can't have more than 45 seconds of continuous play at a time, or 5 minutes of whether a catch is a catch. This is the first game this season I've watched in its entirety, and I was bored. I doubt I will watch another fully until maybe the last two weeks of the season.

 

I don't recall any flags in this game to formations so chalking the overall increase in penalties up to technicalities to the formation rule changes is patently myopic. 

Edited October 5, 2015 by ganesh

[DrSpaceman73]

But eligible/ineligible receivers are not the calls being made.   It's offsides, 12 men on the field (saw that about 3 times today), false start, OPI/DPI, taunting.   Basic stuff.   If there has been a call on ineligible receivers, I don't remember it yet this season.   Could be there have been a couple.   But it is NOT what is causing the flurry of flags.

Its an illegal formation call on the offense, not an inelligible receiver, and as I stated, I have seen a number of flags for illegal formation on the offense, though I don't know if the specific rule change is the reason why.

[DrSpaceman73]

^That's what I was saying. It's not due to the main rules.

 

Give me a break. Your casual fan isn't paying attention to where eligible receivers are positioned on the field. Hardcore fans who know where the slot receiver lines up for a slant or a go are going to keep watching. The NFL doesn't need to market to them. They need the people who might get together for a work thing on Thursday night to watch a football game. You get flags every three plays, and can't have more than 45 seconds of continuous play at a time, or 5 minutes of whether a catch is a catch, people are going to find something else to do.

Now I don't know what the relevance of your response is. None of that has anything to do with the rule change I brought up. Illegal formation calls have nothing to do with hardcore or casual fans. And determining reviews has nothing to do with flags, those are separate issues.

I am just offering a potential asnwer to the question. Feel free to disagree......

You also have a bunch of teams missing starting QBs, which means the offenses don't run as smooth.

[DrSpaceman73]

Also have seen refs call some picky and stupid excessive celebaration penalties. If you do anything with the ball other than hand it to a ref they are calling a penalty

[Fukui San]

Its an illegal formation call on the offense, not an inelligible receiver, and as I stated, I have seen a number of flags for illegal formation on the offense, though I don't know if the specific rule change is the reason why.

Illegal formation on the offense is almost always a wide receiver or tight end forgetting to line up on the line of scrimmage and being back a yard too far.  (Or vice versa, an eligible receiver who's supposed to be a yard back accidentally lining up on the line of scrimmage and covering another eligible receiver.

 

The rule change had to do with one gimmick play.  An eligible player reporting as ineligible on offensive plays probably happened in only three games in all of last year: The famous New England playoff games and a goofy Hail Mary lateral fest the Titans used against the Jets to try to move the ball 80 yards for a winning score with no time left that came up just short. The Titans used 4 eligible players as ineligible linemen then passed the ball quickly to a receiver. The "linemen" could then receive laterals like anyone else legally, and they advanced the ball 75 yards rugby style on one play before falling short of a winning score.  It directly inspired Belichick to create the trick play that was used in the playoffs.

 

I'm absolutely certain that the rule change has not caused a single penalty this season. Teams aren't in the habit of having eligible players report as ineligible, which is why that trick play was so weird and hard to diagnose for the Ravens.

 

According to this article I saw, penalties are up 8% which would be a new record rate.  The increases seem to be in garden variety penalties like Offensive Holding and false starts.

[DrSpaceman73]

So to clarify what I mean about the illegal formations, I am not saying it is all specifically from the new rule. The league competition committee reviews many items in the off season and consideration rule changes. Often when they change a rule they do a general review of it, review it on the off season with refs and make sure they are watching other specifics about it, not just the changed part. The refs then look specifically for any violations of the rule, not just what was changed. The article linked above even states they noticed more illegal formations in preseason and its part of what is being called more this year. So no, the specific rule change is not being called but they are looking more specifically at illegal formations when they happen and calling it because it was part of what was reviewed in the offseason. Yesterday a guard was lined up too far from the center on a play, it was called. The review process makes them more aware of all the specifics of the formation rules

[benteen]

Also have seen refs call some picky and stupid excessive celebaration penalties. If you do anything with the ball other than hand it to a ref they are calling a penalty

 

It's even worse in college football.  It's ridiculous.  It's okay to show a moment of joy when you score a TD.  But the football leagues are determined to suck the joy out of everything.

[BitterApple]

It's even worse in college football. It's ridiculous. It's okay to show a moment of joy when you score a TD. But the football leagues are determined to suck the joy out of everything.

I agree. It's one thing if players are getting obnoxious about it, but damn, let them express SOME emotion.

[benteen]

In the Clemson game on Saturday, a player did a front cartwheel after they had stopped Notre Dame's two-point conversation.  It was a quick, harmless thing but Clemson got a 15-yarder that meant if Notre Dame would have had a much better shot at winning the game (it was a two-point difference) if they recovered.  Clemson recovered so no harm done but I hate the idea of a college or NFL game being determined over some as minor as a quick celebration.  Obnoxious, vulgar, excessive celebrations I have no issue with penalizing.  But personal fouls for quick celebrations are ridiculous.  But the NFL and college football have no interest in looking at the context of something.  They'll just throw that stupid yellow flag at the slightest sign of "unsportsmanlike conduct."

Edited October 5, 2015 by benteen

[ganesh]

The refs need to watch some soccer. The only time you get "flagged"; i.e., a yellow card, is if you take your shirt off. Otherwise, you can run into the stands and kiss people, go hug the coach, hump the flag, dance in front of the camera.

 

This morning on yahoo sports they were talking about the excess penalties and sloppy play too.

[benteen]

On sports radio, they've been talking a lot about in the past year how after a play happens, the players and the fans all go looking at the referee to see if a penalty is going to be called.  It's ridiculous.

[ganesh]

I'm not really inclined to watch another game in its entirety for a while. Only maybe 5 plays were entertaining.