NFL Thread

[mojoween]

Welp I know it won’t be the Giants.

[Carey]

It's not going to be the Seahawks either.  They looked like the only team that could afford him, too; Lamar might price himself out of the league

[Salacious Kitty]

The Raiders traded up to #4, so they're obviously going to try and find their next QB that way. Green Bay could be looking if they can unload Rodgers. Looks more and more that Lamar will stay put.

[BuckeyeLou]

We attended the NFL Combine this past Saturday...fun to see the athletes in action.  Lots of excitement for CJ Stroud, QB tOSU.  Lots of the young kids in the stadium had Joe Burrow shirts on :)  The Colts are in desperate need of a QB!

[Bastet]

15 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Carr goes to the Saints which makes it unlikely they keep Winston. 

Good, then I can start rooting for them again.  They've never been a favorite, but I had previously enjoyed rooting for them against certain opponents.  But not with a rapist under center.

[mojoween]

Boy Cleveland and their serial assaulter have really fucked things up for the league.

They don’t happen to sell public tickets to owners meetings?  No?

You’ve all been so kind to explain Aaron Rodgers’s stupid situation to me, but I’m still confused.  If Green Bay didn’t want him, why did they give him a three year deal, and if Aaron is under contract, why are other teams allowed to date him?

Edited March 8, 2023 by mojoween

[merylinkid]

8 hours ago, Bastet said:

Good, then I can start rooting for them again.  They've never been a favorite, but I had previously enjoyed rooting for them against certain opponents.  But not with a rapist under center.

Exactly why he shouldn't be in the League.   Nor should Watson.

As for Lamar Jackson -- can you say "collusion" I thought you could.   Lamar is not going to "price himself out of the League."   he is making very reasonable demands for a player of his caliber.   It's that he wants a fully guaranteed contract.   How DARE he want some job security?   the audacity of a player treating this like a business -- just like the owners do.  

[Carey]

Looking up the info from Winston, I have to agree that he shouldn't be in the league.  Really, he definitely doesn't need to be in the NFL.  I still think he earned a shot in his first couple of years, but the 2017 stuff is fair reason to have booted him since he has a track record (at least one where he would've been under close watch).

Winston's Uber stuff pales in comparison to Watson, but you can blame the Cleveland Browns for that one.

I don't know what'll happen with Jackson.  I'd be surprised if he wasn't on a roster in 2023.  We'll see if he settles with Baltimore because I don't think anyone is giving him Watson's contract.  If I had to choose someone, I'd say Denver or Carolina, but the NFL is in control.  They're pissed at Cleveland; no sense in someone else doing something that's frowned upon

[bluegirl147]

9 hours ago, Bastet said:

On 3/7/2023 at 7:44 AM, merylinkid said:

Carr goes to the Saints which makes it unlikely they keep Winston. 

Good, then I can start rooting for them again.  They've never been a favorite, but I had previously enjoyed rooting for them against certain opponents.  But not with a rapist under center.

Like @Bastet and unlike the NFL I never forgot about Winston.  Hope he is gone.

3 hours ago, mojoween said:

Boy Cleveland and their serial assaulter have really fucked things up for the league.

I seem to remember when Watson's contract was announced a whole bunch of us said well this sets a very bad precedent and here we are.

51 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

As for Lamar Jackson -- can you say "collusion" I thought you could.   Lamar is not going to "price himself out of the League."   he is making very reasonable demands for a player of his caliber.   It's that he wants a fully guaranteed contract.   How DARE he want some job security?   the audacity of a player treating this like a business -- just like the owners do.  

I'm not sure any player deserves a guaranteed contract worth multi million dollars.  

39 minutes ago, Carey said:

I don't know what'll happen with Jackson.  I'd be surprised if he wasn't on a roster in 2023.  We'll see if he settles with Baltimore because I don't think anyone is giving him Watson's contract.  If I had to choose someone, I'd say Denver or Carolina, but the NFL is in control.  They're pissed at Cleveland; no sense in someone else doing something that's frowned upon

What might work against Jackson is there is a lot of QBs in the draft.  Last year there were a lot of veteran QBs being traded and picked up in free agency because the draft class was so weak.  Also Jackson is a specific type of QB.  He isn't going to work with just any offensive scheme.  Any team that takes him will most likely have to change their offense.  That is a big undertaking and I'm not sure the reward would worth more than the risk. 

Just now, bluegirl147 said:

Like @Bastet and unlike the NFL I never forgot about Winston.  Hope he is gone.

I seem to remember when Watson's contract was announced a whole bunch of us said well this sets a very bad precedent and here we are.

I'm not sure any player deserves a guaranteed contract worth multi million dollars.  

What might work against Jackson is there is a lot of QBs in the draft.  Last year there were a lot of veteran QBs being traded and picked up in free agency because the draft class was so weak.  Also Jackson is a specific type of QB.  He isn't going to work with just any offensive scheme.  Any team that takes him will most likely have to change their offense.  That is a big undertaking and I'm not sure the reward would be worth more than the risk. 

 

[Chit Chat]

21 hours ago, mojoween said:

Why is this a thing?!?  THIS SHOULD NOT BE A THING.

The media is not going to leave him alone!!  I know that a lot of people don't like him, but the media's obsession with him isn't his fault!!  People saw him at the Combine and went batshit crazy.  I'm sure he's ready for them to leave him alone too.   Of course, it could all be a ruse, but I really think he's done this time.  

[Irlandesa]

17 hours ago, mojoween said:

You’ve all been so kind to explain Aaron Rodgers’s stupid situation to me, but I’m still confused.  If Green Bay didn’t want him, why did they give him a three year deal, and if Aaron is under contract, why are other teams allowed to date him?

It's complicated.  Pre-Jordan Love, the team felt Rodgers was starting to show his age. The draft pick seemed to light a competitive fire under Rodgers.  As long as the team felt they had a good chance at a Super Bowl, which they did as long as Rodgers was turning in MVP seasons, they wanted to do what they needed to do to keep him.  (Although  I do think the GM wanted to trade him last season but didn't have buy-in from the President.)

Fast forward to this year.  Jordan Love seems to have taken a leap, Rodgers didn't play well last season (albeit injured), and they're just tired of jumping through hoops.  I won't go into detail but there have been many hoops.

That's why they're ready to move on. 

And the Jets can talk to Rodgers because Green Bay has given them permission to. 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Irlandesa

[bluegirl147]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

And the Jets can talk to Rodgers because Green Bay has given them permission to. 

So let's say Rodgers does go to the Jets.  Does that mean he will then go to the Vikings? It does seem like history repeating itself.  Packer veteran QB feeling the younger QB on his heels goes to NY.

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

So let's say Rodgers does go to the Jets.  Does that mean he will then go to the Vikings? It does seem like history repeating itself.  Packer veteran QB feeling the younger QB on his heels goes to NY.

So much of this history repeating itself is eerie.  But Favre always wanted to go to the Vikings.  He had been speaking with some of their coaches before he pulled his "retirement" stunt.  The Packers just wouldn't let him...at least not for that first trade.

I think Rodgers will be excellent for his first season because, again, competitive juices.  He'd be better for them than if the Packers kept him. I don't see the Jets agreeing to release him in a year. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Irlandesa

[JTMacc99]

On 3/8/2023 at 8:48 AM, bluegirl147 said:

What might work against Jackson is there is a lot of QBs in the draft.  Last year there were a lot of veteran QBs being traded and picked up in free agency because the draft class was so weak.  Also Jackson is a specific type of QB.  He isn't going to work with just any offensive scheme.  Any team that takes him will most likely have to change their offense.  That is a big undertaking and I'm not sure the reward would worth more than the risk. 

As we're moving along with the pre-draft process, I'm starting to hear some people say they're not impressed with the QBs. Most of them have notable flaws. (Too small; below average success on the field; major injury; couldn't hit the ocean throwing off of a boat...)  None of these QBs should be comparable to what Jackson would bring. 

But there's a lot to be said about taking your chance with a QB on the rookie contract as opposed to one who is looking for around $50M per year.

Jackson's bigger challenge to getting another team to offer him a deal has more components than just the money:

• Like you said, if you bring in Jackson, you absolutely need to change up the offense. He's so, SO good at doing what he does, and you have to change to fit him. And yeah, it's absolutely a big change. You not only need to change scheme, you need to change players around him. You need the right kind of offensive linemen. You need the right kind of WRs and TEs. A new team needs to figure out how quickly they can make all of those changes.
• Because, as I heard Bill Pollian say last night, Jackson operates as a RB#1 in the offense, a team has to think about that when they're considering a contract offer. Jackson runs the ball and takes the hits that a RB1 takes. It's a lot of wear on his body that other quarterbacks don't suffer. The NFL is brutal on player's bodies. It has to be considered.
• He is acting as his own agent. If he had an agent, that agent would be on the phones right now trying to drum up interest, calling teams, starting conversations. He is not an agent; he is a football player. Heaven knows if he's calling around selling himself, but even if he is, it seems unlikely that he'll be as good at it as a professional agent.
• Also because he's his own agent, this is a barrier to conversations. Every GM everywhere in every sport since the beginning of time doesn't like dealing with players who are acting as their own agent.

As we do not know anything with any certainty about what dollar amount in total and more importantly in guaranteed money Jackson asked for and the Ravens offered, I won't bother going into detail about that. Let's just say we can safely assume that the Ravens probably offered him a lot of money, and Jackson wanted more.

[bluegirl147]

11 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

Because, as I heard Bill Pollian say last night, Jackson operates as a RB#1 in the offense, a team has to think about that when they're considering a contract offer. Jackson runs the ball and takes the hits that a RB1 takes. It's a lot of wear on his body that other quarterbacks don't suffer. The NFL is brutal on player's bodies. It has to be considered.

This is probably why Jackson wants guaranteed money.  And on the one  hand I don't blame him.  He wants to make money while he can. But on the other hand do I think he is worth whatever sum he is asking?  Probably not. 

14 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

He is acting as his own agent. If he had an agent, that agent would be on the phones right now trying to drum up interest, calling teams, starting conversations. He is not an agent; he is a football player. Heaven knows if he's calling around selling himself, but even if he is, it seems unlikely that he'll be as good at it as a professional agent.

I do think this is why a deal has not been ironed out yet. 

[JTMacc99]

On 3/7/2023 at 4:51 PM, mojoween said:

Welp I know it won’t be the Giants.

The Jones deal isn't too far out of line now that I've looked at it on Over the Cap.

• 2023 - $10M salary, guaranteed. $36M signing bonus. Divide that by 4 years for cap impact, so 2023 cap charge is $19M.
• 2024 - $36M salary, guaranteed. $45M cap charge.

At this point, it's two years, $82M all guaranteed.  $64M cap hits. If the Giants had simply tagged him this year at $32.4M and next year at $38.9M. Total guaranteed in that scenario would be $71.3M, all hitting the cap.

In other words, Jones got $10M more guaranteed than what he would have gotten if tagged twice. In exchange, the Giants reduced cap hits by $8M. The team also gets the ability to keep Saquon off of the free agency market. Jones almost definitely got a few extra dollars because it was worth it to the Giants for what they could then do with Barkley.

So for all intents and purposes, if the Giants want to move on from Jones due to performance, they can do so before the start of 2025. It's a two year commitment. The team thinks he's worth that commitment. 

His 2025 salary would be $30.5M, which would bring the 3 year average to $37.5M, which is a little bit more than what Carr and Smith got. 

The next couple years should be far more interesting than this year's QB group. We've got Burrow coming up. We've got Hurts coming up. We've got what's his face from the Chargers coming up. And at some point, if it's not this year, we'll also get a Lamar Jackson deal done.  SO much money is about to get thrown around.

[mojoween]

Since on my deathbed I will be cursing Ben McAdoo for benching Eli, the hill I died on that put me in that bed is that the Giants were not stupid taking Barkley over Darnold.

[JTMacc99]

13 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Since on my deathbed I will be cursing Ben McAdoo for benching Eli, the hill I died on that put me in that bed is that the Giants were not stupid taking Barkley over Darnold.

There were what, 5 quarterbacks taken that year? Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen, and Jackson. And Jackson was way at the end of the round. It shows what a crap shoot it really is when picking QBs. 

I'll be honest, it wouldn't be hard to convince me that none of those guys, including Allen and Jackson, would have had much success with the rotating Giants coaching staffs and craptastic offensive lines had they been the Giants pick in 2018.

[Fukui San]

26 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

There were what, 5 quarterbacks taken that year? Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen, and Jackson. And Jackson was way at the end of the round. It shows what a crap shoot it really is when picking QBs. 

I'll be honest, it wouldn't be hard to convince me that none of those guys, including Allen and Jackson, would have had much success with the rotating Giants coaching staffs and craptastic offensive lines had they been the Giants pick in 2018.

It’s hilarious to me that those five guys drafted were, in draft order, a meh, a bust, a Pro Bowler (if not MVP caliber), an absolute bust, and lastly, an MVP. 

[JTMacc99]

Right?
 

It happens frequently when multiple QBs go in R1, although it is rare that more than one is MVP caliber. More often, all three or four are meh at best. 

[merylinkid]

20 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

The Packers just wouldn't let him...at least not for that first trade.

After he signed with the Jets, the Packers had no control over him.   While they retained his rights, they were not letting him go to a division rival.   Once they traded him to the Jets, they lost the right to him as a player.   The Jets were always a means to an end for Favre.  

20 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

The Packers just wouldn't let him...at least not for that first trade.

After he signed with the Jets, the Packers had no control over him.   While they retained his rights, they were not letting him go to a division rival.   Once they traded him to the Jets, they lost the right to him as a player.   The Jets were always a means to an end for Favre.  

[Lamb18]

On 3/9/2023 at 7:21 AM, bluegirl147 said:

So let's say Rodgers does go to the Jets.  Does that mean he will then go to the Vikings? It does seem like history repeating itself.  Packer veteran QB feeling the younger QB on his heels goes to NY.

I hope not, speaking as a Vikings fan.

[bluegirl147]

13 minutes ago, Lamb18 said:

I hope not, speaking as a Vikings fan.

I'm curious @Lamb18 how did you feel about Favre when he played for the Vikings?

1 hour ago, JTMacc99 said:

Right?
 

It happens frequently when multiple QBs go in R1, although it is rare that more than one is MVP caliber. More often, all three or four are meh at best. 

I might be biased but I think the best draft for QBs that went in the first round was 2004.  Ben, Eli and Phillip Rivers. Oh and JP Losman.  Three out of four ain't too shabby.

[JTMacc99]

22 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I might be biased but I think the best draft for QBs that went in the first round was 2004

1983 wasn't too shabby either. Three in the hall of fame with Elway, Kelly, and Marino. Ken O'Brien had a good career (he just wasn't Marino, although he did pretty well against the Dolphins in his time). Todd Blackedge was the second of the six drafted that year, and he was mostly a backup for his career. And Tony Eason was the fourth picked (after Kelly, before O'Brien) and did become the Patriots starter for a few years. If I remember correctly, he had some injury issues that messed up his career.

[JTMacc99]

31 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Oh and JP Losman.

That JP Losman pick set the Bills back YEARS.  They traded their 2005 first round pick to the Cowboys to get the pick in 2004 they used to pick Losman. 

Fast Forward to the 2005 draft...

You might want to avert your eyes if you're a Bills fan.

There were two quarterbacks projected to go in the first round of the 2005 draft. The 49ers with the first pick were clearly going to pick one of them. And they did, selecting Alex Smith. The other guy then did a spectacular free fall all the way to 24th, where the Packers took him to eventually replace Brett Favre. 

Seems like if the Bills had not jumped the gun in 2004 to select Losman, and waited a year, they probably would have used the draft pick they sent to the Cowboys, 20th overall, to select that Aaron Rodgers kid.

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

Seems like if the Bills had not jumped the gun in 2004 to select Losman, and waited a year, they probably would have used the draft pick they sent to the Cowboys, 20th overall, to select that Aaron Rodgers kid.

That is the fear of Steeler fans. That we jumped the gun picking Kenny Pickett last year when we should have waited for this year's draft.  For the record I think Pickett will be a good QB. Will he end up being a franchise QB?  I don't know.  Ask me in a year.

[Carey]

I think what might hinder Kenny is playing under a defensive-minded HC

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, Carey said:

I think what might hinder Kenny is playing under a defensive-minded HC

And an ineffective offense coordinator. 

[Carey]

13 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

16 minutes ago, Carey said:

I think what might hinder Kenny is playing under a defensive-minded HC

And an ineffective offense coordinator. 

That too.

However, there has been some suggestion that the HC "interferes or injects" himself into the offense when he sees fit.  If that's true, then it might not matter who the OC is.  You have to leave the other side of the ball alone. 

The only person in the AFC North that's rather capable of managing both sides is Harbaugh

[Lamb18]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

I'm curious @Lamb18 how did you feel about Favre when he played for the Vikings?

I might be biased but I think the best draft for QBs that went in the first round was 2004.  Ben, Eli and Phillip Rivers. Oh and JP Losman.  Three out of four ain't too shabby.

I was OK with it. I believe at that time, the Vikings didn't have an established quarterback, like we do now, and that was the best option at that time. I guess I wasn't thrilled, but I was OK with it. Plus I felt, HA, Packers!  But we have Cousins playing well for us and I don't think Rodgers would be any better. Plus he's older and he gets hurt. I'd rather we draft a good quarterback and get him ready to replace Cousins. Or somehow steal that QB from the Rams.

I just read that the Vikings released Adam Thielen. I could see it coming but still feel sick about it. I hope he gets signed to a good team who could really use him. I'm wondering about Cleveland since he and Stefanski have known each other for years, but then there's Watson. Who needs a good wide receiver out there?

Edited March 10, 2023 by Lamb18

[bluegirl147]

1 minute ago, Lamb18 said:

Or somehow steal that QB from the Rams.

There are rumors they are looking to deal Stafford.

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, merylinkid said:

After he signed with the Jets, the Packers had no control over him.   While they retained his rights, they were not letting him go to a division rival.   Once they traded him to the Jets, they lost the right to him as a player.   The Jets were always a means to an end for Favre.  

Oh I know.   That was poorly worded.  I think I meant to say first retirement stunt.  Because,  of course, he used ths threat of retirement on both teams to get where he wanted to go. Green Bay wouldn't let him go direct.

[voiceover]

Our darling OT!  The Kingdom is mourning you today, but comforted in the knowledge that Lenny is waiting to throw you a spiral again, 89.

 

[Carey]

Breaking News: Chicago will be trading the TOP pick to Carolina.  Source here is from Adam Schefter 

 

ETA: The news courtesy of RAP Sheet.  The Schefty link just has what Chicago is getting back

Edited March 10, 2023 by Carey

[JTMacc99]

I’m surprised that Chicago went all the way back to 9, but that’s a lot of draft capital. 

[Carey]

I guess David Tepper can afford it.  Plus, it might link Carr to New Orleans instead of Carolina.

It is a lot, but I guess they can do more in free agency than most teams.

Either way, looks like Chicago is sticking with Fields going forward, which is okay.  2 years isn't enough to give up on a key player unless it's a true bust

Edited March 10, 2023 by Carey

[Carey]

Wrong thread

Edited March 10, 2023 by Carey

[DrSpaceman73]

1 hour ago, JTMacc99 said:

I’m surprised that Chicago went all the way back to 9, but that’s a lot of draft capital. 

That's a great deal for Chicago.  

[JTMacc99]

1 hour ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

That's a great deal for Chicago.  

It didn't quite register with me that they also got D.J. Moore in the deal. 

As a team with cap space and in need of a WR1, this is a perfect fit. He's signed for three years, he's 26, and his cap hits the next three years are $20M, $16M, and $16M. 

So not only did the Bears get an additional R1 and two R2 picks to move back, they also got an excellent young WR locked up for three years.

And on a personal note, I like this deal a little more now that I realized that the Bears moving back to 9 are now one spot ahead of the Eagles at 10, and as such, are very likely to grab the top CB in the draft that I'm seeing constantly mock drafted to them. This would be a good thing.

[Lamb18]

11 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

There are rumors they are looking to deal Stafford.

I think I meant San Francisco. That's where Purdy is, isn't it?

[merylinkid]

WOW.   That was a heck of a Friday night.   

Bears are all in on Fields.   Which what he has shown is fine.   he's got the ability, he just needs a team built around him.   With these picks, he is going to get that.

Bears got a HAUL.   Panthers giving up a LOT to get a QB from a class that not everyone is excited about.   We shall see how this turns out.   It's either Hershel Walker 2.0  or Mitch Trubisky 2.0.

[DrSpaceman73]

Now Panthers are saying they may trade this pick...

Also rumors Reich wants stroud and the owner wants young.  

As a Panthers and colts fan this will he an intetsting 5 or 6 weeks

[mojoween]

Bud Grant passed away (RIP!) and in looking at tweets praising him he looks absolutely nothing like the Bud Grant who appeared in my head.  I have never been more wrong.

[Lamb18]

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

Bud Grant passed away (RIP!) and in looking at tweets praising him he looks absolutely nothing like the Bud Grant who appeared in my head.  I have never been more wrong.

I was just going to post this. 

[roamyn]

4 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Also rumors Reich wants stroud and the owner wants young.  

As a Panthers and colts fan this will he an intetsting 5 or 6 weeks

Please please don’t pick CJ.  W/o DJ Moore, they have little offense.  I think the Texans under Demarcus Ryan show more promise, and I don’t want to see my QB wasted on a ‘twisting in the wind’ organization.

[Kip Hackman]

15 hours ago, roamyn said:

I don’t want to see my QB wasted on a ‘twisting in the wind’ organization.

That's the definition of the Texans. 

If you're a QB, you'd probably rather play for Frank Reich & Jim Caldwell than a great defensive coordinator. 

[Kip Hackman]

On 3/11/2023 at 12:51 PM, DrSpaceman73 said:

Also rumors Reich wants stroud and the owner wants young.  

I'd guess that the Panthers are putting this out there to bait the Texans into trading up to draft Bryce Young. 

I doubt it works.

[Carey]

Los Angeles is trading Ramsey to Miami.  The posted link here is a discussion on the aftermath of a big move that should be super official on Wednesday. 

I was thinking Jalen to Kansas City would have been better, but that might've been more wishful thinking.  Or someone KC could benefit from

[JTMacc99]

Cleveland just turned most of Watson's salary into bonus so they have cap space to work with in 2023.

By doing so, his cap hit will be $64M in 2024-2026. 

Good luck with that next year. 

[Salacious Kitty]

Just saw that Jimmy G is signing a 3 year deal with the Raiders.