Green Arrow In Comics

[Proteus]

Arrow wouldn't exist if not for the comic books. That's why I'm always surprised to see so much hatred for comic books.

[LeighAn]

59 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Except it's not about that exact writer. It's about fans/writers/artists in general. There are plenty of people I know who loathe the HP movies since they change things/dont represent the characters/story well enough which is the same exact thing some comic fans think of Arrow and other comic adaptions. Just as there are plenty of people who have their works adapted and don't like the outcome. If I were trying to compare Percy with JK it'd be a different story. 

Except the conversation was about the fact that a writer and artist was both being snide about the shows adaption and acting like they are the more superior, to the point of alienating and basically making a declaration that if you watch the tv show well sorry you're not allowed to go here, and then to top it off liking tweets openly abusing the creators of the show even though they are technically colleagues.

 

I don't see how Harry Potter connects to this issue since JK Rowling has always appreciated and admired the movies for what they are and has mentioned in interviews that the movies added elements or angles that she never thought of. I don't know that there's quotes attesting to this but my impression is that JK Rowling would appreciate those who's introduction to Harry Potter through the movies as fans as she would those who read the books and would encourage them to read her books too rather then look down on them.

 

With any adaption there is always going to be some divisiveness from purists because well...water is wet. But the comics have long had a reputation of being elitist and exclusive paticuarly when it comes to women and minority readers, creators and subsequently representation within the comics. And they're becoming a declining and outdated medium.

 

I just don't see the business sense on instead of viewing Arrow with its millions of fans world wide, as a show regarded as among the most streamed shows on Netflix (and most illegally downloaded) as an untapped audience for the comics with some cross promotion marketing initiative rather then going on Twitter and randomly declaring the show and its creators beneath you. But hey if they are happy with their 25,000 and declining every month sales *shrug*

[BkWurm1]

I don't hate the comics; I hate when it's treated like a sacred cow.

[lemotomato]

25 minutes ago, Proteus said:

Arrow wouldn't exist if not for the comic books. That's why I'm always surprised to see so much hatred for comic books.

I don't hate comic books. I hate it when I'm told I can't watch the show or I'm not allowed to like the show or I'm not a real fan of the show just because I didn't read the comics first. Or that I'm inferior or stupid because I prefer the show to the comics.

Edited June 17, 2017 by lemotomato

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

I don't hate comic books. I hate it when I'm told I can't watch the show or I'm not allowed to like the show or I'm not a real fan of the show just because I didn't read the comics first. Or that I'm inferior or stupid because I prefer the show to the comics.

So, you don't hate the comic book, you hate the comic book fans.  For my part this is an absolutely reasonable position to take.  A goodly portion of them of 40+ year old Cat Piss Men who utterly deserve your contempt.

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

So, you don't hate the comic book, you hate the comic book fans.  For my part this is an absolutely reasonable position to take.  A goodly portion of them of 40+ year old Cat Piss Men who utterly deserve your contempt.

To be fair, I don't necessarily hate comic fans, I hate anyone in general that tries to be a gatekeeper on who can like something and how they're supposed to like something. Comes from a lifetime of being a girl that likes stuff traditionally targeting boys, like sports and video games, and yes, comics. The comics fans I know in real life are lovely people that are happy simply talking about comics and have no problems treating the shows and movies as separate entities. 

I mean, I consider myself a comic fan. I grew up reading X-Men (X-Factor, X-Force) comics and watching every animated series. I liked the first X-Men movie. When they went in a direction I didn't like, I stopped watching them. (The 3rd movie killed one half of my OTP and hooked up the other half with the fandom's favorite character. Sound familiar?) I didn't go around screaming about how my childhood was ruined because of the movies, or demanding the studios respect the comics, or putting down people that enjoyed them. (My non-comic reading friends thought X-Men First Class was great and didn't understand why I didn't like it. I didn't go on a tirade insisting the comics version was better. They're both different, and that's OK.) That's why I really don't understand why people can't stay in their lanes and let others enjoy what they want. 

Edited June 18, 2017 by lemotomato

[LeighAn]

51 minutes ago, johntfs said:

So, you don't hate the comic book, you hate the comic book fans.  For my part this is an absolutely reasonable position to take.  A goodly portion of them of 40+ year old Cat Piss Men who utterly deserve your contempt.

Haha this reminds me of a YouTuber comic fan I think he has a bit of a following who looks like his probably in his late 50s early 60s and he has posted the most unbalanced vitriolic hate videos about Arrow and specifically Olicity/Felicity. I'm talking he makes Chris Crockers "Leave Britney Alone!" Videos look sane. When I watched it I didn't know whether to laugh or be afraid.

All I kept thinking of is you are man who looks old enough to have probably had multiple jobs and careers, a wife, teenage children- why are you getting so passionately angry over a fictional romantic couple haha.

 

That being said in the instance of this discussions it's not so much the FANS that we are taking issue with as much as it is the content creators and people involved in the comics who are encouraging an air of exclusivity and superiority around the comics that encourages and legitimises the worst behaviour of fans of that genre that's not uncommon from the medium. I think I remember this thread discussing an incident last year about a female writer who basically quit the comic she was writing for and social media because she felt pushed out because of her gender not fitting in with the no girls allowed in the club house mentality. This came as a result of her having the character she was writing for wear a feminist t-shirt. 

 

Within in the context of Arrow, their is a overwhelming sentiment among Green Arrow comics fans that not only aren't girls allowed in the club house (unless they like the same thing the boys like and keep their mouths shut) AND fans of Arrow are also not welcome because they aren't "true" fans. 

 

I myself elf personally don't want to join their club house cause frankly it's lame haha, but it seems not only insulting and all not the smart business sense for the Green Arrow comics writer and artist to not only not try and appeal to the shows fans to give the comics a try but also alienate comic readers who may like the show as well by being snide on their Twitter accounts.

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, LeighAn said:

I myself elf personally don't want to join their club house cause frankly it's lame haha, but it seems not only insulting and all not the smart business sense for the Green Arrow comics writer and artist to not only not try and appeal to the shows fans to give the comics a try but also alienate comic readers who may like the show as well by being snide on their Twitter accounts.

Also, recall that their club house smells like cat piss.

The bit about the writers/artists speaks to something comic creator Warren Ellis has been banging his head against walls about for years - the determination by almost everyone involved to treat comics as a genre instead of a medium.  Think about how books would work if treated the same way as comic.  There's all kinds of books published and almost all them are Nurse Romance novels.  Roll that around in your head for a little bit.  You can write a book but it has to be a Nurse Romance.  And if it's anything other than a Nurse Romance it gets shafted and mostly ignored by the publishing industry.  Now you can include elemental of action fiction, spy fiction, even fantasy, but at its core, if you want your book to sell, you have to have as the main character a nurse in a hospital setting or it's a no go.

That's where comics are, in general in America and where they've pretty much always been.  Whatever kind of story you want to tell in comics form, it better have super-powered people in costume beating the hell out of each other.  There's a reason why comic sales tend to be in the thousands and sales/viewers of TV/movies/books etc tend to be in the millions.

1 hour ago, LeighAn said:

All I kept thinking of is you are man who looks old enough to have probably had multiple jobs and careers, a wife, teenage children-

Yeah, I wouldn't go that far.  A string of menial jobs and a blowjob from ugly hookers when he scrapes the cash together seems more that guy's speed. 

Edited June 18, 2017 by johntfs

[EmilyBettFan]

Give me OTA and Olicity and I'd buy the shit out of that. If you supply a goatee Oliver who looks like a rapist and a BC chick who keeps going back to someone who has cheated on her, it's a no go for me. 

[johntfs]

8 hours ago, Proteus said:

Arrow wouldn't exist if not for the comic books. That's why I'm always surprised to see so much hatred for comic books.

Like others here have said, it's not a hatred for the comic book.  It's a good bet that less than 1 percent of the TV fans have even seen a Green Arrow comic book in person.  Figure much of the anger from TV fans comes from the no-girls-allowed-you're-not-a-real-fan-unless-you-read-the-comic-first that many comic fans have and some comic professional seem to encourage.

[statsgirl]

It's unfortunate that the comic professionals encourage the mentality (including those on the TV show who think that only masks and fighting ability matter).  It gives credence to the worst of the stan gatekeepers.

19 hours ago, lemotomato said:

You also don't go around insisting that the HP movies should get pulled from shelves and not be shown on TV or beg for new movies to be made that follow the books to the letter.

Now I feel like I have failed as a fan of the TV series.  After all, it's currently more successful and many more people watch it than read the comic books.  Maybe I should go around demanding that the comic books that don't follow the TV show be pulled from the shelves......?

Edited June 18, 2017 by statsgirl

[Primal Slayer]

I'm surprised that DC doesn't make sure that the 3 mediums support each other.

Many more people have always watched tv then read a comic that will never change. 

[Morrigan2575]

May Comic Sales posted at comichron.com

Green Arrow #22  28,931

Green Arrow #23 28,291

 

Green Arrow April Sales

Green Arrow #20 30,216

Green Arrow #21 29,993

 

Looks like GA might have hit their core, it'll continue to drop slowly until it hits 19K or DC does another reboot.

With nu52 I think it started in the 50K range and took about 3 years to drop to 19k. Lemire came in and the title jumped to high 20s (27k or 29k) and eventually settled in low 20s (21k-22k) before the AJK shakeup which saw the title eventually drop down to 19K before Rebirth.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[thegirlsleuth]

May was a 5 Wednesday month, which gave an extra week of sales to tally so it probably would have dropped a bit more, percentage wise, if they didn't get that extra week of sales.  From reports, it looks like all comic book sales have been slumping since October.

[lemotomato]

52 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

May Comic Sales posted at comichron.com

Green Arrow #22  28,931

Green Arrow #23 28,291

 

Green Arrow April Sales

Green Arrow #20 30,216

Green Arrow #21 29,993

 

Looks like GA might have hit their core, it'll continue to drop slowly until it hits 19K or DC does another reboot.

With nu52 I think it started in the 50K range and took about 3 years to drop to 19k. Lemire came in and the title jumped to high 20s (27k or 29k) and eventually settled in low 20s (21k-22k) before the AJK shakeup which saw the title eventually drop down to 19K before Rebirth.

Interesting. So it took nu52 3 years to lose 62% of its audience (50k -->19k) but only about 1 year for Rebirth to lose about the same percentage (80k -->29k = -64%)

[Morrigan2575]

30 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Interesting. So it took nu52 3 years to lose 62% of its audience (50k -->19k) but only about 1 year for Rebirth to lose about the same percentage (80k -->29k = -64%)

Green Arrow #1 (DC52) September 2011  55,512

Green Arrow #16 (DC52) January 2013  19,888 

Jeff Lemire #17 (DC52) February 2013 36,043. #34 (DC52) August 2014 22,052

AJK #35 (Dc52) October 2014 23,346. #40 March 2015 19,792

After this DC ran the convergence storyline which lead into Rebirth June 2016 #1 81,760 

 

Looks like GA Rebirth dropped quicker than Nu52 but, Rebirth is also running 2 issues per month x while Nu52 seems to have run 1 issue per month. Nu52 also had several different authors before Lemire.

I think the only real take away is that GA/BC isn't anymore of a draw then a well written GA/Naomi/Fyfe/Diggle (Lemire) or a poorly written GA/Naomi/Jax or even AJKs title.

Eventually GA bottoms out in the 20k range

Edited June 19, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Primal Slayer]

It was to be expected, especially with the twice a month release. I'm surprised they are still doing the book twice a month. But in the overall look at how DC is selling it is still doing fairly well for a comic that feature Bats/Supes/WW/Flash

Edited June 19, 2017 by Primal Slayer

[strikera0]

I don't get why comic book publishers don't focus more on short term storyarcs with a beginning, middle and end. Let's say 12 issues per storyarc per year and every January serves as a new starting point. I think that would make a lot more sense from a financial standpoint and it would also make the canon a lot less confusing. 

[Primal Slayer]

I agree. If they did "seasons" it would be so much better but there are a lot of last minute changes and editorial mandates "surprise! you're part of this crossover!"

[tv echo]

Plot synopses for upcoming GA issues this year (with release dates) - guest starring The Flash, Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, and the Justice League...

Green Arrow #26 (July 5, 2017):

Quote

“HARD TRAVELING HERO” part one! Unwilling to let another city suffer the same fate as Seattle, Green Arrow kicks off a new quest to hunt down the Ninth Circle across America! To stop disaster before it can happen, the (in)famously hot-headed Oliver Queen must mend fences with those he’s alienated in the past, starting with THE FLASH! The second epic year of GREEN ARROW REBIRTH begins here!

Green Arrow #27 (July 19, 2017):

Quote

“HARD TRAVELING HERO” part two! Oliver Queen is a pillar of morality. A champion of ethics. The essence of truth. Or at least he thought so. The self-described people’s hero Green Arrow crosses paths with the Justice League’s real paragon of virtue, Wonder Woman, when his cross-country fight against the Ninth Circle puts both heroes’ muscle and mettle to the ultimate test.

Green Arrow #28 (August 2, 2017):

Quote

“HARD-TRAVELING HERO” part three! Metropolis is Oliver Queen’s next stop on his quest to take down the Ninth Circle, but he may be too late when the evil financiers start a war with the one man they can’t buy: Lex Luthor! That’s more fat cats than even Ollie can handle, which means this is a job for Superman and Green Arrow!

Green Arrow #29  (August 16, 2017):

Quote

“HARD-TRAVELING HERO” part four! Black Canary and Green Arrow’s missions converge in two cities at once! Canary’s in Seattle, where she’s hot on the trail of the Auctioneer, and Arrow’s in Gotham City, where Oliver Queen’s investigation into human trafficking among the city’s elite draws the attention of Bruce Wayne!

Green Arrow Annual #2 (August 30, 2017):

Quote

Christmas is a time for reflection, relatives and…revenge! So says Count Vertigo, who returns to Seattle to send Oliver Queen on a violent, mind-bending journey into his own past and future. The hidden secrets of GREEN ARROW are laid bare in this oversize special that tests the already tenuous bonds between Team Arrow, featuring the long-awaited returns of Shado, Diggle and the dark archer Merlyn!

Green Arrow #30 (September 6, 2017):

Quote

“HARD TRAVELING HERO” part five! The day Oliver Queen has dreaded for years has finally arrived: Green Arrow, DC’s most stubborn, most hotheaded hero, needs help from the last person he ever wanted to ask: Hal Jordan, who’ll give the Emerald Archer a lift to the stars in this stunning reunion that readers have demanded since REBIRTH began!

Green Arrow #31 (September 20, 2017):

Quote

“HARD TRAVELING HERO” finale! For a year Oliver Queen has been one step behind the Ninth Circle. Now he knows why: an orbiting fortress from which the super-villain financial empire secretly spies, steals, buys, sells and kills everyone and everything Green Arrow needs to defeat them. And. It. Is. Going. DOWN. It’ll take the whole Justice League to clean up the mess in this epic conclusion to the most star-studded GREEN ARROW story ever!

(source)

Edited June 22, 2017 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

I think I saw someone throw the kitchen sink in there too. Is it normal to have so many of the other DC superhero connections in or are they making a desperate effort to get more readers?

[LeighAn]

Ha! Looks like they are putting every big name in they can to help Green Arrows sales numbers....but sure Green Arrow and Black Canary were popular before and without Arrow. ?

[lemotomato]

9 hours ago, tv echo said:

Green Arrow Annual #2 (August 30, 2017):

Quote

Christmas is a time for reflection, relatives and…revenge! So says Count Vertigo, who returns to Seattle to send Oliver Queen on a violent, mind-bending journey into his own past and future. The hidden secrets of GREEN ARROW are laid bare in this oversize special that tests the already tenuous bonds between Team Arrow, featuring the long-awaited returns of Shado, Diggle and the dark archer Merlyn!

So... didn't the phrase "Team Arrow" originate on the TV show? Hmmm...

Edited June 22, 2017 by lemotomato

[BkWurm1]

12 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

So... didn't the phrase "Team Arrow" originate on the TV show? Hmmm...

Take that back!  The comics never ever ever are influenced by that icky show Arrow!! I read it on Twitter.  It must be true!

[LeighAn]

11 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

So... didn't the phrase "Team Arrow" originate on the TV show? Hmmm...

Excuse moi. But according to Percy and his Twitter minions they are allowed to take characters/concepts from the show and make them their own without copying the show. Even though Percy and his artist and Twitter minions expect the show to copy the comics but whatevs. That's how it works!

[Primal Slayer]

Writers don't write their solicitations to my knowledge. 

[Trini]

9 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I think I saw someone throw the kitchen sink in there too. Is it normal to have so many of the other DC superhero connections in or are they making a desperate effort to get more readers?

Superheroes have always teamed up, or had cameos or mini-arcs with each other in the comics; this isn't really new.

And the the various adaptations of comics influence the comics, and vice versa -- not new either. That just how it works, everyone borrowing ideas from each other.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Trini

[tv echo]

Writer Ben Percy talks about the next story arc for his GA comics...

-- GA goes on a road trip where he teams up first with The Flash, then with Wonder Woman, then with Superman, then with Batman, and then with Green Lantern. Per Percy, it's a "quest" across the country, with GA trying to take down the Ninth Circle and also trying to earn the trust of the Justice League.  GA has a "reputation with the Justice League that isn't all that becoming."

-- After his road trip, "GA will have to return to Seattle and face his trial and figure out what to do if he gains his fortune once more" which had a "corrupting influence on him," according to Percy. "Black Canary from the very first issue said, 'how can you fight the man if you are the man?'"

-- On GA and BC, Percy: "Their relationship has gone through ups and downs since then. Uh, they're on the outs right now. And he's going to have to prove to her that he's a man worth loving. I've said before, for those of you who might be wringing your hands out there, that I can't imagine writing Green Arrow without Black Canary. And I stand by that."

GREEN ARROW: Justice League Team-Ups Begin w/ The Flash

Quote

When you have nothing, you have nothing holding you back. In this DC All Access comics clip, we talk to Green Arrow writer Ben Percy about his new storyline, “Hard Traveling Hero,” which sees Ollie hitting the road and teaming up with a few friends…

Published on Jul 4, 2017, by DC Entertainment

Edited July 5, 2017 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

It's nice of Mr. Percy to give the hand-wringing shippers some reassurance during this painful time.

[leopardprint]

Random thoughts:

Is that why S5 Oliver was so terrible? They were trying to make him more like comics GA ?.

I would not describe tv Oliver as hotheaded but I would like to hear SA have to rant about "fat cats". 

Black Canary has a nemesis who is an evil auctioneer? ?

23 minutes ago, tv echo said:

...that I can't imagine writing Green Arrow without Black Canary. And I stand by that."

Are we sure this "Percy" isn't secretly MG? Perhaps evidence of the alleged company line. 

Edited July 5, 2017 by leopardprint

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

-- After his road trip, "GA will have to return to Seattle and face his trial and figure out what to do if he gains his fortune once more" which had a "corrupting influence on him," according to Percy. "Black Canary from the very first issue said, 'how can you fight the man if you are the man?'"

Well it worked well for Batman.

[johntfs]

12 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Well it worked well for Batman.

Hell, in the trailer for Justice League somebody asks Affleck's Batman what his superpower is and Batman answers, "I'm rich."  Maybe it's just an addiction/personality thing.  Bruce Wayne has the cold focus to treat wealth as simply another tool in his crime-fighting arsenal while Oliver Queen has a tendency to get caught up in the wealthy person lifestyle.

Edited July 5, 2017 by johntfs

[bijoux]

7 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Hell, in the trailer for Justice League somebody asks Affleck's Batman what his superpower is and Batman answers, "I'm rich."  Maybe it's just an addiction/personality thing.  Bruce Wayne has the cold focus to treat wealth as simply another tool in his crime-fighting arsenal while Oliver Queen has a tendency to get caught up in the wealthy person lifestyle.

I have no idea about comics, but I did not get that impression of the show post-island Oliver at all. While he had it, he's used his money to finance vigilanteing and when he did partake in the lifestyle, it was to maintain his cover. 

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, bijoux said:

I have no idea about comics, but I did not get that impression of the show post-island Oliver at all. While he had it, he's used his money to finance vigilanteing and when he did partake in the lifestyle, it was to maintain his cover. 

Reason eleven hundred why I prefer TV Oliver vs comic dude.

[johntfs]

6 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I have no idea about comics, but I did not get that impression of the show post-island Oliver at all. While he had it, he's used his money to finance vigilanteing and when he did partake in the lifestyle, it was to maintain his cover. 

I don't really know about the comics either.  That was just my guess as to why comics Oliver and Black Canary took that position of "You can't fight the man if you are the man."  Post-island Oliver has been aggressively indifferent to acquiring and keeping money.  I actually wish they'd throw a little story in there about money being a useful tool in the war on bad people.  I recall that being an element of Seasons Four and Five of Person of Interest.

Edited July 5, 2017 by johntfs

[apinknightmare]

19 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Reason eleven hundred why I prefer TV Oliver vs comic dude.

Yeah, comic Oliver seems like a pretty relentless dickbag. 

[BkWurm1]

21 minutes ago, johntfs said:

I don't really know about the comics either.  That was just my guess as to why comics Oliver and Black Canary took that position of "You can't fight the man if you are the man."  Post-island Oliver has been aggressively indifferent to acquiring and keeping money.  I actually wish they'd throw a little story in there about money being a useful tool in the war on bad people.  I recall that being an element of Seasons Four and Five of Person of Interest.

I don't read the comics but I have been following the reports on them for the last five years and until BC randomly out of nowhere started ripping on him having money and coming up with her "you can't fight the man if you are the man", I never saw anything that suggested his money was a hedonistic influencer or anything.   I dismissed it at the time as part of the "rebirth", some manufactured conflict designed to provide drama.  It irritated me than and it irritates me now.  He isn't bloody Robin Hood, living in the woods on nothing, stealing from the rich.  I wish they'd stop pretending he was.  (Or trying to make it so)

Edited July 5, 2017 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

"You can't fight the man if you are the man"  is sooooo 1960s.

Why is it a good thing that Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark are rich and such a sin for Oliver Queen?

The more I hear about the comics Oliver Queen, the less I want to read about him.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

Hell, in the trailer for Justice League somebody asks Affleck's Batman what his superpower is and Batman answers, "I'm rich."  Maybe it's just an addiction/personality thing.  Bruce Wayne has the cold focus to treat wealth as simply another tool in his crime-fighting arsenal while Oliver Queen has a tendency to get caught up in the wealthy person lifestyle.

Not really. Green Arrow is pretty much a Lefty social reformer.

 

43 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't read the comics but I have been following the reports on them for the last five years and until BC randomly out of nowhere started ripping on him having money and coming up with her "you can't fight the man if you are the man", I never saw anything that suggested his money was a hedonistic influencer or anything.   I dismissed it at the time as part of the "rebirth", some manufactured conflict designed to provide drama.  It irritated me than and it irritates me now.  He isn't bloody Robin Hood, living in the woods on nothing, stealing from the rich.  I wish they'd stop pretending he was.  (Or trying to make it so)

In the 80s he was extreme Left and one of the Big pairings Green Arrow and Green Lantern focused on their differing political views.

In the late 90s-2000s he was broke at some point. I remember reading a scan with Mia/Oliver and, he talked a out not being able to afford things he used too.

In the Nu52 continuity he was once again green/lefty. During Lemire's run he lost QI and was pretty much living off of his Justice League paycheck.

During AJKs run he was rich again but, altruistic. He was very into his charitable foundation. 

My impression from comics (granted I haven't read them all) is that prior to the Island he was a rich, party guy who filled the void in his life/heart with extreme sports/thrill seeking (from Year One). His time on the island reformed him and he became more altruistic (again Year One).

[johntfs]

38 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

"You can't fight the man if you are the man"  is sooooo 1960s.

Why is it a good thing that Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark are rich and such a sin for Oliver Queen?

The more I hear about the comics Oliver Queen, the less I want to read about him.

April comic sales were something like 28000+ while April viewers were something like 1.3 million.  Even assuming everyone buying the comic is watching the show then, what, a little over 2% of the viewers read the comic?  Figure the viewers overall agree with you.

5 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Not really. Green Arrow is pretty much a Lefty social reformer.

So's George Soros.  You don't see him lamenting his billions.  I don't know, it seems like something somebody in his early 20s might care about, but isn't Oliver Queen supposed to be all the way grown up in the comics?

[BkWurm1]

4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

My impression from comics (granted I haven't read them all) is that prior to the Island he was a rich, party guy who filled the void in his life/heart with extreme sports/thrill seeking (from Year One). His time on the island reformed him and he became more altruistic (again Year One).

Which makes sense and seems really reasonable.  

What rings weird to me is vilifying money for the sake of money.  Even in the Bible it was the LOVE of money that was the root of all evil, not money alone, lol.  If having money is too much a temptation to him and makes it impossible for him to behave heroically, I just don't find him that heroic. I got the impression in this recent rebirth run he lost his fortune on purpose (though apparently not thoroughly enough, lol) after BC taunted him about it.  I don't find squandering a resource heroic.  It's why I'll always shake my head over Oliver losing QC to Isabel.  Not because he lost his money but because he was so bloody stupid in doing it.  

[statsgirl]

9 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

 Even in the Bible it was the LOVE of money that was the root of all evil, not money alone, lol. 

You're one of the few people who know that.  Even when it's referenced in stories, people say "money is the root of all evil".

 

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I got the impression in this recent rebirth run he lost his fortune on purpose (though apparently not thoroughly enough, lol) after BC taunted him about it.  I don't find squandering a resource heroic.  It's why I'll always shake my head over Oliver losing QC to Isabel.  Not because he lost his money but because he was so bloody stupid in doing it.

I don't think  he meant her to keep it though.  He probably thought she'd give it back when he was over the current crisis.  Yeah, not so birght.

I agree squandering a resource is not heroic.  It's as if he were to deliberately cut tendon on  his arm that pulls the arrow back.  Definitely not interested in the comics.

14 minutes ago, johntfs said:

So's George Soros.  You don't see him lamenting his billions.

I thought of Soros too.  Oliver wants to do some good -- open up a university in the Glades.

[Morrigan2575]

Quote

What rings weird to me is vilifying money for the sake of money.  Even in the Bible it was the LOVE of money that was the root of all evil, not money alone, lol.

Yeah, I don't get Money IS Evil and, you have to be poor to be/do Good. Maybe Percy is a Socialist at heart? Or he just has a very simple minded writer taking a semi-childish (black & white) view of the world.

18 minutes ago, johntfs said:

So's George Soros.  You don't see him lamenting his billions.  I don't know, it seems like something somebody in his early 20s might care about, but isn't Oliver Queen supposed to be all the way grown up in the comics?

He's not written as a Billionaire Playboy in the comics, mostly. He does or did sleep around in the early nu52 run. But for the most part he's written as anti-establishment. He's an irreverent dick in the Comics, doesn't get wrapped up in Batman's brooding or Superman's boy scout ways. 

I don't even think he's all that well liked by the JL.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[johntfs]

20 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

He's not written as a Billionaire Playboy in the comics, mostly. He does or did sleep around in the early nu52 run. But for the most part he's written as anti-establishment. He's an irreverent dick in the Comics, doesn't get wrapped up in Batman's brooding or Superman's boy scout ways. 

I don't even think he's all that well liked by the JL.

The Justice League calls itself, in all seriousness, The Justice League.  Irreverent dickishness would certainly get under their collective skin.

That said, figure Bruce Wayne has prevented a whole lot more crime as Bruce Wayne than he ever did as Batman through charitable grants, education, law-enforcement tools, etc.  It's not like the Establishment doesn't have its uses.

[LeighAn]

12 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't read the comics but I have been following the reports on them for the last five years and until BC randomly out of nowhere started ripping on him having money and coming up with her "you can't fight the man if you are the man", I never saw anything that suggested his money was a hedonistic influencer or anything.   I dismissed it at the time as part of the "rebirth", some manufactured conflict designed to provide drama.  It irritated me than and it irritates me now.  He isn't bloody Robin Hood, living in the woods on nothing, stealing from the rich.  I wish they'd stop pretending he was.  (Or trying to make it so)

Manufactured drama to create a conflict between your romantic ship in order to make you're shippers wring their hands in worry about if Green Arrow and Black Canary will end up together...

 

[leopardprint]

15 hours ago, johntfs said:

That said, figure Bruce Wayne has prevented a whole lot more crime as Bruce Wayne than he ever did as Batman through charitable grants, education, law-enforcement tools, etc.  It's not like the Establishment doesn't have its uses.

That's one of the suspension of disbelief things with these billionaire vigilantes. Oliver could have done a lot more good as the head of QC than shooting arrows into people but he's not what one would call a big picture thinker. 

Also just randomly remembered when Maseo said he would live  in incomparable luxury as Ra's, as opposed to the squalor the child of American billionaires lives in? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. 

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, leopardprint said:

Also just randomly remembered when Maseo said he would live  in incomparable luxury as Ra's, as opposed to the squalor the child of American billionaires lives in? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. 

It must have been the candles.  Moira and Robert believed in electric lights.

Edited July 6, 2017 by statsgirl

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, leopardprint said:

That's one of the suspension of disbelief things with these billionaire vigilantes. Oliver could have done a lot more good as the head of QC than shooting arrows into people but he's not what one would call a big picture thinker. 

Also just randomly remembered when Maseo said he would live  in incomparable luxury as Ra's, as opposed to the squalor the child of American billionaires lives in? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. 

By that point Oliver had lost the company and somehow most of his money.  Presumably he was sponging off of Felicity for arrow money at that point.

[leopardprint]

24 minutes ago, johntfs said:

By that point Oliver had lost the company and somehow most of his money.  Presumably he was sponging off of Felicity for arrow money at that point.

He was sponging off his billionaire sister in S3 as well. Thea should start a foundation with her Merlyn blood money. 

Comic OQ has no siblings right? 

Edited July 6, 2017 by leopardprint

[johntfs]

43 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

He was sponging off his billionaire sister in S3 as well. Thea should start a foundation with her Merlyn blood money. 

Comic OQ has no siblings right? 

He doesn't have a sister that's been mentioned, but he does have a son, Conner Hawke.

Presumably Thea is also a bit broke since wasn't Merlyn living in a shitty apartment prior to the finale due to having no actual money?