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Green Arrow In Comics

Lantern7

By Lantern7
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lemotomato
lemotomato

If we're going with how much we owe the comics, let's be more specific. If it weren't for Christopher Nolan and his version of Batman, we wouldn't be here. If Berlanti had tried to sell the comics ver

lemotomato
lemotomato

I don't hate comic books. I hate it when I'm told I can't watch the show or I'm not allowed to like the show or I'm not a real fan of the show just because I didn't read the comics first. Or that I'm

wonderwall
wonderwall

LOL I don't get the "Arrow is just a soap opera/ romance show" argument... Now even more if the whole GA/BC rebirth spoiler above is acceptable.  That's just terribly cheesy and terribly written

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

Black Canary finally returns to the Justice League (of America)

JLA.jpg?1477670512?interpolation=lanczos

Black Canary comes into the team for two reasons according to Orlando: her hand-to-hand fighting skills, and her grass roots fights for social justice alongside Green Arrow.

“She doesn't lord above people with a mask. She's in Seattle, she's seen by people, she talks to people, she listens to people. She's there, as Batman says, to keep him honest, to keep him in line," said Orlando. "He knows what he wants to do, but it's a bit out of his comfort zone. Honestly, she's there because of the immense amount of respect he has for her and what she does."

http://www.newsarama.com/31780-batman-black-canary-old-school-lobo-join-justice-league-of-america-title.html

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kismet

kismet

This post might piss off a few different factions and for that I apologize. But these are my thoughts & opinions.

When I read the description of Black Canary above it makes me very frustrated that Arrow never got to see that version of Black Canary. And the sad part is I do think that the writers had it in their capabilities to deliver it because to me is sounds like they are describing Arrow's Felicity Smoak. And its not the first time I thought that. The working relationship dynamic of FS/OQ on the show very much feels like the essence of the comic's working relationship. Having never read the comic I have no idea if this is accurate it's just the impression I get from the way BC is described in articles, social media and on this thread.

I can't help but wonder if the casting of BC on Arrow had been different, if we would have gotten a better BC that could portray all the cool stuff these articles describe that make LL/BC sound like a kickass woman & hero. I also can't help but wonder if the writer's room arrogance also played a part intentionally or unintentionally in that they wanted to tell their own story and that made irreparable changes to their onscreen LL that made it too challenging to return to her comic roots. There is no way I can see the LL we met in s1 becoming this comic hero, and sadly she never was portrayed like that even after they gave her the mask. Even now her memory is not being used in homage to social justice.

Lastly, with all the multiverses, resurrections & time-travel shenanigans I can't help but think the Arrow writers room will bring back a new onscreen BC either out of pressure from TPTB, hubris or desperation. I don't honestly think I can ever see KC playing this version of BC. But for me the failures of Arrow's LL/BC as a character extend way beyond just KC, so it's not even about her. Arrow was never just to it's characterization of LL/BC and that just sad considering her comic legacy. And with their obsession with masks everywhere now, it frustrates me that they epically failed to deliver one of the masks so closely linked with Green Arrow.

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Thundercatmary

Thundercatmary

I don't disagree with most your points. I think the show made a few major mistakes very early on in the series that are to late to fix. I think KC was miscast, nothing against her personally, yet she was kept on for whatever reason, maybe contracts maybe hubris idk. Their second huge mistake was not seeing the potential Em had early on to play a more physical role, I know a lot of people don't want her to portray BC for a variety of reasons, but I think all things being equal she could have pulled it off for sure and has the chemistry with SA.

So yeah getting an adaptation closer to the comics, I don't really see that happening. I mean they can cast yet another BC , but I not sure how much success they will have with that for a number of reasons.

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CabotCove

CabotCove

(edited)
Quote

Black Canary finally returns to the Justice League (of America)

http://www.newsarama.com/31780-batman-black-canary-old-school-lobo-join-justice-league-of-america-title.html

While Im happy for Black Canary, I hate that they have taken Green Arrow out of the JLA Team?. Why is Batman needed, he already is in the other JL team and pretty much everywhere. It doesnt feel like a Justice League without Green Arrow, and  Katana, Vibe should have been kept in too. 

Edited by HeroLeague
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

The closest live action version of comic book Dinah is Sara. Even more so now on LOT.

Also, for me it's impossible to compare comics Oliver/Dinah to any relationship that ever happened on Arrow because OLIVER is completely different. In the comics he's the dude who mocks everyone all the time, and uses humor as a shield, and thinks as an anarchist most of time time about... well, everything. And Dinah's the level headed realist who reigns him in.

And then there's something else -- comic book Oliver is a womanizer, but he doesn't do the alpha male schitck as much as Arrow Oliver does. cb!Oliver a long time ago made peace with not being the top banana superhero, and he's fine with it. He's fine just running the snarky commentary while Clark, Bruce, and Diana do the leader thing. I mean,  cb!Oliver actually gets off on the fact that Dinah can destroy him on a fight. Arrow!Oliver will never be like that, so he'll never have a relationship that resembles the GA/BC from the comics.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

4 hours ago, kismet said:

I can't help but wonder if the casting of BC on Arrow had been different, if we would have gotten a better BC that could portray all the cool stuff these articles describe that make LL/BC sound like a kickass woman & hero. I also can't help but wonder if the writer's room arrogance also played a part intentionally or unintentionally in that they wanted to tell their own story and that made irreparable changes to their onscreen LL that made it too challenging to return to her comic roots. There is no way I can see the LL we met in s1 becoming this comic hero, and sadly she never was portrayed like that even after they gave her the mask. Even now her memory is not being used in homage to social justice.

Lastly, with all the multiverses, resurrections & time-travel shenanigans I can't help but think the Arrow writers room will bring back a new onscreen BC either out of pressure from TPTB, hubris or desperation. I don't honestly think I can ever see KC playing this version of BC. But for me the failures of Arrow's LL/BC as a character extend way beyond just KC, so it's not even about her. Arrow was never just to it's characterization of LL/BC and that just sad considering her comic legacy. And with their obsession with masks everywhere now, it frustrates me that they epically failed to deliver one of the masks so closely linked with Green Arrow.

Their arrogance 100% imo played a part in not giving us the best BC we could have had. They were/are to gung-ho on telling their own story which most of the time, they just really suck at. They should've embraced who the character was, they try to use the whole "these characters have so many iterations blah blah blah" but Dinah Laurel Lance has had a very consistent portrayal which I think Katie could've done wonders with. The writers own arrogance and determination to adapt Batman Begins is what led to the characters downfall. 

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fangirlforever320

fangirlforever320

33 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Their arrogance 100% imo played a part in not giving us the best BC we could have had. They were/are to gung-ho on telling their own story which most of the time, they just really suck at. They should've embraced who the character was, they try to use the whole "these characters have so many iterations blah blah blah" but Dinah Laurel Lance has had a very consistent portrayal which I think Katie could've done wonders with. The writers own arrogance and determination to adapt Batman Begins is what led to the characters downfall. 

I actually super agree with this. They could have written to KC's strengths as an actress but they seemed to write away from those strengths. It was doomed from the start, and then they brought in CL in s2 and fans embraced her more... At some point you have to wonder if they ever really wanted KC as LL to succeed on that show at all. 

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Chaser

Chaser

Idk. I don't think they wanted to write her. And I don't think that was a reflection of Laurel, I think that was all KC. She wasn't working BTS and she doesn't have the talent on screen to overcome that.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I'm not sold that KC was the right choice for the part, but that's almost moot since I think pretty much everything about the character they wrote was misconceived and doomed to fail.  I also don't think that a super faithful version to the comic book Canary would have worked on Arrow either since as someone else pointed out, this Oliver isn't lifted that faithfully from the comics.  Oh well.  

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Velocity23

Velocity23

I would say the mess that was Black Canary and Laurel Lance is more complicated than that since it involves the interference of the network. Its not a secret that for whatever reason the network wanted KC in that role so badly that without her the pilot would have gone nowhere. And even during the filming of the pilot  the EPs were obvious  of the issues at hand and they even try to rewrite the character but the big bosses once again played interference. Pushing KC into a role that didnt suit her just because she was the networks pet, just failed miserably.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

22 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

And even during the filming of the pilot  the EPs were obvious  of the issues at hand and they even try to rewrite the character but the big bosses once again played interference.

I don't think I've heard about this aspect of the BTS stuff.  Are you able to elaborate?

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Velocity23

Velocity23

Quote

I don't think I've heard about this aspect of the BTS stuff.  Are you able to elaborate?

Just basic BTS chatter, and the role of the big bosses to have KC in this role. I think @Morrigan2575 talked about that apsect also during last season.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

15 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

That's comics for you, it's sad that it took WW getting a live action costume for DC to finally ditch the star spangled undies. Same would probably have to happen to PG though at least her boob window is gone for the time being.

Hey at least that's some progress.

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LeighAn

LeighAn

And how are we ever going to see issues of sexism and sexual assault change in society when this hyper sexualisation of women is exposed to boys at young ages who may read these comics. I'm not trying to get on a soap box but I just wish that comics could ease up on the gross depictions of women.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

2 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

And how are we ever going to see issues of sexism and sexual assault change in society when this hyper sexualisation of women is exposed to boys at young ages who may read these comics. I'm not trying to get on a soap box but I just wish that comics could ease up on the gross depictions of women.

I guess the good news is that not a huge percentage of kids read comics anymore.  

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

That's comics for you, it's sad that it took WW getting a live action costume for DC to finally ditch the star spangled undies. Same would probably have to happen to PG though at least her boob window is gone for the time being.

She was in full pants quite recently. They redid her design in 2010 to full pants suit (WW #600, I really liked that design) 

Then reverted to type for DC52 launch. However, at least once during DC52 she was put back in pants (DC52 WW #41). 

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

2 hours ago, LeighAn said:

And how are we ever going to see issues of sexism and sexual assault change in society when this hyper sexualisation of women is exposed to boys at young ages who may read these comics. I'm not trying to get on a soap box but I just wish that comics could ease up on the gross depictions of women.

DC and Marvel have been a lot better in recent years then they have been in the past. The amount of T&A has calmed down considerably in the last 2 years or so.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Bwahahahah ????

Oh dear lord that's bad. Snuggles? WTF?!

I now know why they've lost so many subscribers. This is honestly the most truly horrendous writing ever. It makes me glad that we have the Arrow writers which... is an incredible feat Percy accomplished. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

9 minutes ago, Thundercatmary said:

Yeah that's pretty bad, well I hope the regular readers enjoy it even if I think it's bad lol.

It's almost sad that people who genuinely like this pairing don't have anywhere to go to, to get their fill of decent - good writing other than past comic issues... 

It's like me and fanfiction. When there's a shortage of good fics, I tend to lower my standards and read fics that I wouldn't generally read, ones that aren't as well written...

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Ok, leaving aside the issue of the bad dialogue (is that supposed to be Diggle by the way?).....has she always been able to do that? I thought the sonic scream was just that, a non-verbal scream.  I didn't realize she was able to...go verbal with it, I guess is what I'm trying to say. 

I still hate pretty much everything about that costume.

3 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Issue 10 sold 43k in November.  Issue 11 sold 41k. The decline is slowing.

Where did they start at?

Edited by Starfish35
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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

Just now, Starfish35 said:

Ok, leaving aside the issue of the bad dialogue (is that supposed to be Diggle by the way?).....has she always been able to do that? I thought the sonic scream was just that, a non-verbal scream.  I didn't realize she was able to...go verbal with it, I guess is what I'm trying to say. 

Where did they start at?

When they were released in June, the rebirth comic was 81k, and issue 1 was 69k.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)
35 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Issue 10 sold 43k in November.  Issue 11 sold 41k. The decline is slowing.

I dunno... with the exception of the bigger drop between August/September, GA sales have pretty steadily dropped by 10% per month. If that rate stays consistent, they'll end up selling 23k by May, close to their numbers before Rebirth. 

Edited by lemotomato
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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

Just now, lemotomato said:

I dunno... with the exception of the bigger drop between August/September, GA sales have pretty steadily dropped by 10% per month. If that rate stays consistent, they'll end up selling 20k by May, close to their numbers before Rebirth. 

That's true.  I was thinking numbers, not percentages.  

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