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Season Two Speculation: Mr. Robot

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This is where a quippy blurb usually goes. This show has me so discombobulated, I have no quippy.

 

Discuss your speculation for Season Two of Mr. Robot here! Please note - NO SPOILERS (if you absolutely must post a spoiler, tag it please!).

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The thing about this show is there are so many threads just from Season One that probably need some tying up, questions that need to be asked/answered, and one has to expect that they will have to include new ones. In no particular order:

 

What happened to the original Mr. Robot/Elliot's dad? 

 

How long has Elliott been hallucinating Mr. Robot? And what are the ground rules? (Now that the "secret" is out, I would love to see more scenes both as in Elliot's mind and in reality.)

 

Are any of the other people in Elliot's life/on the show alters, or just Mr. Robot?

 

What exactly/how exactly did fsociety do the hack? What are the ramifications of it, and the next steps?

 

What is the connection between the Evil Corp CEO and whiterose? Is whiterose playing Evil Corp, fsociety, both?

 

What the heck is Gideon/AllSafe going to do now?

 

What has happened to Tyrell? Are the cops going to tie him to the murder of Mrs. CTO? (Or for that matter, the beatdowns administered to random homeless people?) What is the backstory on what is going on between Tyrell and Joanna, and whatever gamesmanship they are working on?

 

Is Elliot going to start seeing Krista again in a professional (or romantic or other) capacity? Even as good as Elliot might be at concealing his condition, how could she have missed that there was so much wrong with him?

 

Is there a resolution to attempts to get EvilCorp to answer for giving Mama Elliot and Mama Angela and countless others leukemia?

 

Is Elliot going to seek justice for Shayla, or at least cross the paths of that psycho again?

Will the guy who was humiliated into giving up Krista be successful in trying to go after Elliot? 

 

Will the other folks in fsociety get additional character development?

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What has happened to Tyrell? Are the cops going to tie him to the murder of Mrs. CTO? (Or for that matter, the beatdowns administered to random homeless people?) What is the backstory on what is going on between Tyrell and Joanna, and whatever gamesmanship they are working on?

Or, as I'm kind of believing, Tyrell is actually another of Eliot's personalities, which means that Eliot murdered her.

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I think Tyrell being Elliot is too much of a cheat at this point. The non-recognition of Elliot by Tyrell's secretary (as well as anyone else at Evil Corp) seems to undermine the notion that he is Tyrell. The only way around that is if we literally discredit that scene. And that is a bridge too far because it means ultimately we can't trust anything involving Elliot to be real. 

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What happened to the original Mr. Robot/Elliot's dad?

How long has Elliott been hallucinating Mr. Robot?

Is Elliot going to start seeing Krista again in a professional (or romantic or other) capacity? Even as good as Elliot might be at concealing his condition, how could she have missed that there was so much wrong with him?

Is there a resolution to attempts to get EvilCorp to answer for giving Mama Elliot and Mama Angela and countless others leukemia?

Elliot's father, Edward Alderson, died of leukemia. For all we know, his mother's still alive. I assumed they were estranged because she's abusive—but the finale puts that into question.

In the pilot, Krista asked Elliot if he was taking his meds, and said he hallucinates when he's off them. He said he was taking his meds, and didn't tell her about the "men in black" he thought were following him.

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The thing about this show is there are so many threads just from Season One that probably need some tying up, questions that need to be asked/answered, and one has to expect that they will have to include new ones. In no particular order:...

I felt the same way. This podcast helped some without being spoilery:
It's an hour long, so you might want to do dishes or exercise or something while listening.

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I think Tyrell being Elliot is too much of a cheat at this point. The non-recognition of Elliot by Tyrell's secretary (as well as anyone else at Evil Corp) seems to undermine the notion that he is Tyrell. The only way around that is if we literally discredit that scene. And that is a bridge too far because it means ultimately we can't trust anything involving Elliot to be real. 

I'm working on an analysis of the whole reason I now think Elliot is in fact Tyrell and am going to create a separate thread for it. I'm up to episode four and so far I've seen evidence in 1-4 that support the theory. The dream sequence in episode four blew my mind now that I'm looking for evidence to support the theory. I'm hoping to have the first part of the analysis up tonight or maybe tomorrow. 

 

I love how fascinating this show is on rewatching it. It's honestly better to me the second time around. There's so much I feel like I'm catching that I didn't on the first viewing. 

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His original name was Elliot Rodgers (changed because of the murderer), so if there's a deeper meaning to his name it's likely on his first name, not last

 

Yeah I went back and watched some episodes and figured it was mostly or only about the first name but I didn't know about the original last name.

 

It turns out in the first episode with Vera, he asks Elliot what his name means. Vera thinks everyone should know the meaning of their name but Elliot doesn't. In a follow up epi, Vera tells Elliot that he looked it up and his name means brave and something else (I forgot already). And because I didn't start watching the show until the forth or fifth epi had aired already, I didn't bother to read the early boards but I went back and did that too and saw this:

 

Also, it turns out that "Elliot" means "Jehovah is God" or "God is with us" according to sites that came up on Google, for whatever that's worth.

 

Also in the last episode, Mr. Robot says to Elliot something like, "you were suposed to be our god", which seems like it should tie in to the above quote in some way.

 

Edited by WentMissing
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Just popping in to let you all know - we have a spot to analyze Season One now!

 

Mr. Robot Season One: Where Our Minds Are Twisted Upside Outtop. And back again.

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I'll post my Elliot = Tyrell thoughts in the new season 1 thread. 

 

Regarding the name thing with Elliot. Elliot meaning "God is with us" or "Jehovah is God" puts me in mind of the name meanings of Joanna "God is gracious" and Angela "Angel" or "Messenger from God". 

 

Gideon = "Mighty Warrior" or "Destroyer"

Darlene = "Tenderly Loved"

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It turns out in the first episode with Vera, he asks Elliot what his name means. Vera thinks everyone should know the meaning of their name but Elliot doesn't. In a follow up epi, Vera tells Elliot that he looked it up and his name means brave and something else ...

Also in the last episode, Mr. Robot says to Elliot something like, "you were suposed to be our god", which seems like it should tie in to the above quote in some way.

Regarding the name thing with Elliot. Elliot meaning "God is with us" or "Jehovah is God"

IIRC, those are also meanings for the name of Jesus, so maybe Elliot is destined (by Esmail) to be a savior or a martyr or both.

Avaleigh, reading your Tyrell=Elliot posts and thinking about Elliot as a savior/martyr is giving me Fight Club flash backs, LOL. In the Grantland interview with Esmail, he openly acknowledged that the show is in part inspired by Fight Club. And in early posts more than one of us noticed the Tyrell-Tyler name similarity, which, now that we see that names are not insignificant to Esmail, seems like a possible clue to Tyrell being an Elliot alter. So. Tune in next season to find out for sure, right?

A number of posts (maybe even mine) have expressed wariness concerning Tyrell being Elliot because it feels like a slippery slope toward everyone being Elliot or otherwise not real. But I think it could work if there are a few more Elliot alters.

Edited by shapeshifter
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Or, as I'm kind of believing, Tyrell is actually another of Eliot's personalities, which means that Eliot murdered her.

 

I hope not. In fact, now that I'm growing more certain that Tyrelliot is a thing, I'm hoping Joanna did it. Or the horrible boss. Joanna knew he was going up on the roof. Tyrell has been informed that he was a person of interest because of what he did in the bathroom staring at Sharon. What if the boss followed them up, planning to pin a murder on Tyrell? What if the husband actually is sick of Sharon and did it? I know how unli

 

What if Joanna did something, like poison Sharon? Sharon died way too fast up there. She probably should not have died from being choked the way Tyrell did it, because Tyrell is a dom and knows how to choke someone without actually hurting them...his description of how he felt was meant to make us think "aha! Sociopath!" because he felt "wonder." But what if he felt that way because she wasn't dead yet at all, and on some unconscious level he knew it?

 

Worse, what if there was a camera? Just because there's no security camera doesn't mean that Sharon wasn't wearing a wire or recording it on her phone.

 

What if he cleaned up, left, and then someone else came up there and finished the job? My friend Jason says no, Tyrell is evil, throw im off the roof. But if he's Elliot he has to be innocent, because if one's guilty then both are. Right? Or not?

Edited by Hecate7

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I hope not. In fact, now that I'm growing more certain that Tyrelliot is a thing, I'm hoping Joanna did it. Or the horrible boss. Joanna knew he was going up on the roof. Tyrell has been informed that he was a person of interest because of what he did in the bathroom staring at Sharon. What if Joanna did something? Sharon died way too fast up there. She probably should not have died from being choked the way Tyrell did it, because Tyrell is a dom and knows how to choke someone without actually hurting them...his description of how he felt was meant to make us think "aha! Sociopath!" because he felt "wonder." But what if he felt that way because she wasn't dead yet at all, and on some unconscious level he knew it?

 

What if he cleaned up, left, and then someone else came up there and finished the job? My friend Jason says no, Tyrell is evil, throw im off the roof. But if he's Elliot he has to be innocent, because if one's guilty then both are. Right? Or not?

I definitely think that Tyrell did it. I don't think there's any wiggle room and Joanna's comments indicate that she doesn't think Sharon is dead while Tyrell is all kinds of shifty because he knows that she is. Joanna also seems genuinely surprised when she hears about Sharon and Tyrell is the one who is acting guilty during the police visit. We don't see Tyrell clean up after the kill at all. He just runs out of there scared after he realizes what he's done.

 

Elliot is "innocent" of killing Sharon in that Tyrell is completely wrapped in that identity to the point where he's confused as to what is and isn't real. The Elliot personality wasn't there for the kill so he's innocent innocent in that sense. All of the personalities though are obviously going to go down with the ship if Tyrell ends up being caught up.

 

The most distrubing thing about Sharon's kill apart from her death is that Tyrell admits that he doesn't feel guilt and only feels wonder. I totally got shades of Dexter with that and think that he'll likely kill again at some point. Another disturbing aspect to me is that there was no reason for it. Not that there's ever a "good" reason for murder apart from self defense but even using a twisted killer's logic, I still don't get it and I'm not sure that Tyrell does either. It didn't help him or get him the CTO position (why would it?) and all it's done so far is to help fuck up his life. When he killed her it was like something took him over and that's why I briefly entertained the idea that another of Tyrell's personalities committed the murder. But then I remembered his confession to Elliot where he talks about how he felt in the moment and that told me that he was definitely in his own head when he committed the murder. 

 

Joanna didn't give any indication that she wanted Sharon dead or that would be at all helpful to their overall plan. In fact she basically wanted to break up with Tyrell after what he'd done. She doesn't seem to have moral qualms about the murder itself just about the entire episode wrecking everything that they've built.

 

What I'm unclear about is how Joanna feels about fsociety. I get the impression that this is something that Tyrell is keeping from her and that she wouldn't necessarily be on board. IIRC Esmail said that Joanna would be something of Elliot's nemesis in the next season and it makes me wonder if this will be more about fsociety or Tyrell. She and Tyrell don't seem to be on the same page anymore as far as their goals and what's odd to me is that even though Tyrell is the one going around hurting and even killing a person, he seems interested in doing good too and that seems to be a lot of what the Elliot personality is about.

 

Pure speculation--

 

Who is Elliot to Tyrell that he needed to create him? Was Elliot a real person at one point? I feel for such an elaborate backstory that he has to have been real at one point and in some way for whatever reason he was special to Tyrell. I considered that there might be a sexual link of some kind but Elliot just doesn't strike me as being interested in men. Tyrell doesn't really seem interested in men either that was just a means to an end. They certainly don't look related although this wouldn't be the craziest thing. If they are brothers (I definitely lean against this) and Elliot is dead, why doesn't Elliot speak Swedish? The Swedish thing is one more element that makes me think Tyrell is the real one between the two of them. If Tyrell is the center and the key to everything (as Elliot's dream/hallucination suggests) then it makes sense to me how some of his personalities would have certain aspects of him. It makes less sense to me for Elliot to be the center but then to not know something that is integral like a native language to one of the personalities he's created.

 

About the show having a killer as a central character--

 

This isn't a dealbreaker for me at all. I've never personally felt the need to "root" for characters. I just need them to be interesting and I think Tyrell and Elliot are both fascinating.

 

I've seen it said that Elliot's character is too great for him to turn out to not be real but I don't see it that way. The complexity of Elliot only makes Tyrell all the more interesting. I don't think Tyrelliot being true takes away from Elliot's character at all, I see it as only adding to Tyrell's.

 

I also disagree with the concern that Tyrelliot being true means that everything is going to be written off as Elliot being an unreliable narrator. To me that's a complete oversimplification of what's going on.

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Regarding the degree of economic apocalypse likely to occur in season 2—note: I am a fan of apocalypse stories when they are well executed, but would quickly agree that many are not:

Over in the media thread wisteria posted:

Bloomberg has an interesting post on the financial implications of the E Corp hack. Two caveats: 1) consider the source, and 2) the writer doesn't seem to understand how E Corp works within the show's universe. Still, I agree that fsociety's plan will have some not-so-rosy repercussions, since wiping out debt doesn't mean that those of us with credit cards, mortgages, and/or student loans are now free to do whatever we want.http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-09-09/the-caper-in-mr-robot-is-no-robin-hood-scheme

And back in the pilot thread I posted:

One other thing that bugged: There was a premise that wiping out everyone's debt would be good for the poor and the lower middle class.

But poor, honest, responsible people would not benefit from the scheme. Poor people who ran up a lot of debt to buy fancy cars and homes would. So would rich people who overspent.

Of course, there would also be some deserving souls in the middle, but I think not as many as in the other categories.

I should ammend my post to include that people who were duped into buying houses with flexible interest rates would also benefit.

Anyway, they could go a variety of ways with this, and how well it is handled might be the difference between a season 3 happening or not—or at least whether or not I keep watching. I don't want them to get bogged down in financial technical explanations, but it should be clear and make sense within the show's universe.

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Students would benefit. It would be an interesting scheme to just wipe out all student loan debt. But it's still a very scary picture he's painting.

Edited by Hecate7

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Disclaimer: I'm a high school English teacher who has never worked an office job, so I could be totally wrong about all of this! If so, please be polite when you tell me I'm full of it. ;)

 

I'm more interested in the repercussions beyond the consumer debt industry. Erasing 70% of debt overnight would probably cause many businesses to collapse, leaving thousands or even millions of people without jobs. As the Bloomberg article said, the government and private industry would have to find some way to replace all that money, so taxes would skyrocket along with cost of living. On a personal level, I graduated in the '90s and am STILL paying $400/month in student loans. Wiping that away would be heavenly... but my TRS and 403(b) pensions would also evaporate.  It would be hellish for people like my now-broke retired parents who have no mortgage but also have no savings.

 

I'm a staunch liberal who supported Occupy Wall Street and totally believes in wealth redistribution... but I think Mr. Robot has been way too starry-eyed about the hack. Sam Esmail has totally earned my trust, though, so I'm assuming that season two will deal with all the real-world ramifications that fsociety never even considered.

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I have heard a certain refrain all my life. "Nobody owes you anything." "The world doesn't owe you a living." Reword and reframe ad infinitum. I'm not willing to starve for it, but it would be a very fine thing indeed for that experience to become universal. I'm not sure it would make any difference at all, to people like me and the now-broke retired people who already have no savings.

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Students would benefit. It would be an interesting scheme to just wipe out all student loan debt. But it's still a very scary picture he's painting.

I wonder if the current debates about student debt fueled this plot.
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even though Tyrell is the one going around hurting and even killing a person, he seems interested in doing good too and that seems to be a lot of what the Elliot personality is about.

 

 

 

He's really interesting to me, because most rich jerks who wanted to beat up a homeless guy would just do it, not pay him to do it. He clearly made a deal with this one homeless guy to pay him to beat him up. Plus nobody wanted Sharon dead, so that whole interlude is baffling.

 

I have a new speculation....it's not Elliott's apartment. It's probably Darlene's, and that's why the fish is still alive.

Edited by Hecate7
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I definitely will rewatch S1 right before this show returns next summer.

Hope they give more screen time to Mrs Wellick, she an interesting character.

Edited by MrsRafaelBarba

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An actual premier date (at the end of the video)!! 7/13/16!

Whoops, now I see that you included that in your post. Ah well, bears repeating?

Edited by shapeshifter

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I started watching this when it first aired and got almost halfway through the season before life stuff and I just fell behind. So now that Season 2 is coming up I finally found some time to binge-complete a bunch of shows.

I was wondering...so I'm watching the episodes through the USA Now App. Ugh the commercials are everywhere, but on top of that they're ALWAYS for some depressing drug. Holy crap it is so annoying and depressing. Especially because, well it's this show so. Is this normal? Or did USA's ad tracking somehow conjure up that this type of advertising is relevant to me incorrectly? Oy!!!!

Edited by Potanical Pardon
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1 hour ago, Potanical Pardon said:

I started watching this when it first aired and got almost halfway through the season before life stuff and I just fell behind. So now that Season 2 is coming up I finally found some time to binge-complete a bunch of shows.

I was wondering...so I'm watching the episodes through the USA Now App. Ugh the commercials are everywhere, but on top of that they're ALWAYS for some depressing drug. Holy crap it is so annoying and depressing. Especially because, well it's this show so. Is this normal? Or did USA's ad tracking somehow conjure up that this type of advertising is relevant to me incorrectly? Oy!!!!

I've never used that app, but if you've never clicked on on ad for anti-depressants, the app may default to those because of the subject matter of the show. You could try clicking a few fluffier ads in your browser on the same device and see if it changes to those kinds of things--like maybe dresses or running shoes or furniture.
You can also clear your cache first if you have ever clicked on any of the pill ads. 

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2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I've never used that app, but if you've never clicked on on ad for anti-depressants, the app may default to those because of the subject matter of the show. You could try clicking a few fluffier ads in your browser on the same device and see if it changes to those kinds of things--like maybe dresses or running shoes or furniture.
You can also clear your cache first if you have ever clicked on any of the pill ads. 

It's the app on my Xbox One. Installed and used for the first time just for this show. I never clicked any ads for anything since like maybe 1995. Similarly, AdBlock+, Disconnect, HTTPS everywhere, almost never use Google, etc - as close as I can reasonably get to minimizing my digital footprint.

It's funny-ironic because of the show, but really annoying. Not even nursing homes with the Game Show Network on all the time have this much Pharma. Lyrica, Chantix, a Fibromyalgia one (which might be Lyrica, I forget), heart disease...or side effects of suicidal thoughts, heart disease, IBS, constipation, strokes. I've since seen the Tina Fey Amex ads with the Silicon Valley guy where she makes fun of the gloves for feet flip-flops and a Target one too. One more episode and I should have these concretely memorized.

ETA: Creepy! After that post now the ads are totally different!!! Hampton Inn, Some James Harden one, Warcraft movie. Haha.

Edited by Potanical Pardon
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8 hours ago, Potanical Pardon said:

I started watching this when it first aired and got almost halfway through the season before life stuff and I just fell behind. So now that Season 2 is coming up I finally found some time to binge-complete a bunch of shows.

I was wondering...so I'm watching the episodes through the USA Now App. Ugh the commercials are everywhere, but on top of that they're ALWAYS for some depressing drug. Holy crap it is so annoying and depressing. Especially because, well it's this show so. Is this normal? Or did USA's ad tracking somehow conjure up that this type of advertising is relevant to me incorrectly? Oy!!!!

I feel your annoyance. When I binge watched the first 8 episodes of the show last year, I watched it OnDeman and was consequently forced to watch endless TV spots for some crap show called Chrissly Knows Best. I kept thinking, 'How can they possibly think that the same audience that is intrigued by a (IMO at least) well written like Mr. Robot would be at all interested in so z-list reality show?' 

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Elliots psychiatrist's ex boyfriend is working with Tyrell in some fashion..........he mentioned FBI following Eliott hence the video of him falling from the pier. Tyrell with FBI? CIA?

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On 9/8/2015 at 7:30 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think Tyrell being Elliot is too much of a cheat at this point. The non-recognition of Elliot by Tyrell's secretary (as well as anyone else at Evil Corp) seems to undermine the notion that he is Tyrell. The only way around that is if we literally discredit that scene. And that is a bridge too far because it means ultimately we can't trust anything involving Elliot to be real. 

If you look at the last fsociety transmission, you'll notice that the eyes behind the mask were blue. Elliot's eyes are brown. The last fsociety transmission was recorded by Tyrell. He's real. And he wanted revenge. In the end, he either helped Elliot preemptively drop the worm, or Tyrell initiated it himself. 

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I just saw a close-up pic of Rami Malik at some awards ceremony & his eyes appeared to be blue. So I would think that Elliot's are blue also. So maybe that was him behind the mask?

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I just binge watched this on Amazon Prime, which was great because it was uncut with no commercials.

I don't think Elliot and Tyrell are the same person, but I think they are mirror images, or two versions of the same persona.  Tyrell is a wealthy version of Elliot while Elliot is a poorer version of Tyrell.

I wonder why did Tyrell's wife tell him about a child she gave up for adoption when she was fifteen.

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I am rewatching season 1 right now. At the end of episode 6, when Vera takes Shayla, and Elliot and Darlene walk into the apartment and find the phone in the middle of the floor, Vera says something along the lines of the universe keeps bringing the two of "us" together. And in the opening of episode 6, Shayla says, "this doesn't feel real." And Elliot tells her she should eat. ... Shayla again (for the third time in the series) talks about the importance of keeping promises. Mr. Robot also puts a lot of emphasis on promises which is interesting....

When Elliot talks to Vera after Shayla is taken away, Vera talks about being locked up (much like Elliot's real memories) and that he has to get him out tonight, because people want him dead. And then he tells Elliott he loves him and calls him brother (in almost the exact same way Darlene tells Elliott she loves him in episode 7, which I thought was very interesting). 

I kind of don't think Shayla is real. And the flash back in the next episode where Shayla moves in and gives Elliot the fish is totally random and not anything like the rest of the show....

idk, something is up with Vera and Shayla for sure though....

also, the dream sequence in episode 4, when Elliot is going through withdrawals, I think there is a LOT of information in that sequence that will be important. For instance, the shooting at the squatter house. It's in the background and we barely see what's going on or why or how it started until the girl sitting on Elliot is shot and then Elliot is shot as well. Could this be indicative the trauma that caused Elliott's dissociative tendencies? any thoughts?

 

Also, in every single episode, there are MULTIPLE references and pictures of fish, fishing, baiting.

 

im starting to wonder if Elliott was in some type of accident where he's in a coma or trapped inside his mind, and this is all some sort of program to try to bring him out of it. Like, Inception or something...

Edited by Nighkey

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OR!!! What if this is like Shutter Island and everyone is simulating a situation so that Elliot will come terms with reality... Honestly, that would be way better than a fight club scenario....

 

AND in the flashback sequence with Shayla in the opening of episode 7, her first words (as she's banging on Elliot's door are, "Open up! I'm bleeding all over the hallway! This is a life or death situation out here!" And she brings him a FISH.

this cannot be a coincidence...

 

 

i have no other hobbies. ?

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AND!!! (We knew there was going to be an and....) when Gideon is talking to Elliot about "taking time off" after "shayla's death" he says, "I'm so sorry she was taken away, Elliot. But, don't let her death close you off entirely. Find someone you can be your honest self with." This is the ONLY TIME any other person mentions Shayla's death. THAT IS WEIRD. Perhaps Gideon is the "Creator" of Elliot's simulated world and that's why he's tried to be a sort of "fatherly" figure... 

honestly, everyone is focusing on Tyrell right now, but his role and what he means will come in season 2, I think. The first season is about Gideon, Shayla and Vera and "US" - Elliot's imaginary friend.

this is, Truman show meets fight club meets inception meets shutter island.

AMAZING.

 

3 hours ago, Nighkey said:

Also, in every single episode, there are MULTIPLE references and pictures of fish, fishing, baiting.

 

im starting to wonder if Elliott was in some type of accident where he's in a coma or trapped inside his mind, and this is all some sort of program to try to bring him out of it. Like, Inception or something...

EVEN THE DOG'S NAME IS FLIPPER. COME ON.

 

Also, Romero isn't on the "team" because he wants to be.... Mr. Robot is forcing his hand. This could be important.

 

Ok. Ok. Ok.

come along with me on this weird journey....

In episode 7, Elliot is dealing with Shayla's death... 

And then Tyrell (very surprisingly) kills Shannon.... What IF, it's like a video game (a theme we see OVER AND OVER, the hack den is legit in an arcade you guys), as a rebuttal.... Like, Tyrell and Elliot are on the same team, and because Shayla is killed, the "team" takes down Shannon.... Just a thought

This is a GAME. Gah.

 

AND AND AND AND

Krista.

her office wallpaper looks like code. And she watches "anal" porn - much like the male proclivities we've seen from Tyrell (and I think, eventually Elliot). Krista wishes her mother was dead (like Elliot probably does). And Krista doesn't take her meds, like Elliot doesn't. And Krista feels alone like Elliot feels alone, he says.... What if Krista and Elliot are the same person; like Krista is who Elliot becomes when he needs to ground himself.....

Edited by Nighkey
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I'm dreading the return of this show because it's been such a long hiatus that I'm afraid it will no longer resonate with me (especially since I'm 6 months into a successful battle against stage 4 cancer). I've dropped a lot of shows recently because they are too grim (including Grimm), so even though Mr. Robot is more on Breaking Bad's level of sophistication and quality, it might be too dark for me (Breaking Bad did have a healthy dose of humor/levity, which I can't recall in Mr. Robot).

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Shapeshifter, if you think you might not be up to Mr. Robot & that the negativity/darkness might not be good for your success, please don't tune in. Your health is more important. Congratulations, btw, I've been wondering how you are.
I'm so happy to hear that you are doing so well. Many well wishes for continued success. Thanks for posting!

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On 09.07.2016 at 2:42 PM, shapeshifter said:

I'm dreading the return of this show because it's been such a long hiatus that I'm afraid it will no longer resonate with me (especially since I'm 6 months into a successful battle against stage 4 cancer). I've dropped a lot of shows recently because they are too grim (including Grimm), so even though Mr. Robot is more on Breaking Bad's level of sophistication and quality, it might be too dark for me (Breaking Bad did have a healthy dose of humor/levity, which I can't recall in Mr. Robot).

So sorry about your health. I've seen the first episode online and (no spoilers) I do think it's pretty dark, so I wouldn't really recommend it if you're too sensitive nowadays (I never found Grimm dark... it's pretty common TV fare, basically fast food to me). Mr. Robot is also quite cynical and nihilistic, to boot.

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Okay, I have lots of speculation from the opening episode. My apologies for the length.

I think that Tyrell/Elliot is currently in some kind of mental health facility and I think it's very possible that this is how he and Angela met as children. I think the finale at the end of last season was somebody coming to take Elliot away and that it had to do with Krista's patient taking action. I think that's why he no longer has the dog. When Angela asks Elliot in one of the episodes from last season about how they always used to "run away" together, I don't think she literally meant running away. I think they would let their imaginations take them away.

I think that Tyrell/Elliot being put away has freaked Angela/Darlene out and that this is another part of why she feels like they're losing. 

I think that Gideon went to visit Elliot/Tyrell in this place and that this is part of the reason why Gideon seemingly had some sympathy for Elliot. It just didn't make any sense that Gideon would know that Elliot was hiding out at his mother's. If he really suspected him of all of this stuff, why would he feel safe visiting Elliot? IMO he feels safe because it's some kind of mental hospital and that woman who Elliot thinks of as his mother is likely a guard or nurse of some kind. I think of how structured Elliot's routine is and to me it feels like a toss up between prison, rehab, or a mental hospital, and hospital seems to fit best for multiple reasons. 

I also think that we're going to find out that Gideon's murder wasn't some random act. I think Tyrell and/or Joanna was behind it. I think Tyrell now thinks that it's safe for Elliot to come out of hibernation now that Gideon is no longer a threat. 

Re: Angela

I think we were just given a huge clue when Angela's coworker revealed that she thinks that Angela is weird and that she sometimes sees her talking to herself. The person on the other end of this conversation has also seen Angela talking to herself and agrees that it's weird. I saw it suggested that it's just Angela saying her positive affirmations to herself but IMO if Angela is only repeating some positive affirmations then this would be something less likely for people to comment on. I think these people saying that she was talking to herself suggests Angela is having a conversation with someone who isn't there. This isn't a conclusion that I would normally jump to but given the type of show this is, I feel like it at least needs to be considered. I also think about how we're given this information about Angela right after the camera pans over to the plaque with Angela's full name on it--it's like we're being introduced to her and are seeing what other people think about her for a change. Someone other than Elliot. 

I keep going back to the fact that Angela is the one who deliberately infected All Safe. What Fsociety did couldn't have been achieved without Angela's participation. I think about her relationship with Ollie and I was so sidetracked by what a douchebag he is that I didn't consider the idea that she was playing him all along. I wondered what she saw in him but basically shrugged my shoulders. I now think that Angela was using Ollie and that it was a plan all along with the guy who we thought of as Darlene's boyfriend. She did everything from Ollie's computer and successfully kept Gideon from ever suspecting her involvement. 

I think that Angela's conversation with the lawyer was one more way that she was covering her tracks in being involved in Fsociety. This woman is the one person who knows that she isn't just working at E Corp because she needs a job. She knows that Angela has ulterior motives, so Angela is trying to make it seem like she just wants to work there because they value her even though we've seen that this isn't really the case. Meanwhile, Darlene is more determined than ever to see E Corp pay.

Also, consider how Darlene speaks about E Corp in a very matter of fact way. She talks about their executives almost like she knows them and has personally interacted with them before. How does she know that they call that woman the Executioner? IMO it's because she's heard people say it during work. 

When Darlene talks about her boyfriend and how he's telling her that he loves her--I'm positive that this is Angela talking about Ollie and not Darlene talking about her hacker boyfriend. Darlene has a contempt for this person that she's talking about and it isn't the same with hacker boyfriend. 

When I think back to the long dream sequence in episode four, the two big characters in that for Elliot are Angela and Tyrell. (and Qwerty the Fish.) The dream sequence is full of truth. Angela tells Elliot that he's not Elliot. She says he was only born a month ago. She also asks him about whether or not he's going to change the world--Darlene is the character who is always talking to Elliot about changing the world. He and Angela don't have those sorts of conversations.

Speaking of Qwerty, Angela gets Qwerty and not Elliot's sister Darlene. Darlene has no place of her own and doesn't seem interested in getting one. It's like she doesn't need one. 

Why don't Darlene and Elliot ever talk about their parents with each other? 

Why isn't Darlene in any of the flashbacks of young Elliot? Why is young Elliot stuck at the same age in every flashback?

I need to revisit the ballet scene but I think it's important that Angela said Darlene and Elliot weren't close as children. 

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Honestly, I have no theories of my own at this point, and am just along for the ride, but I think your ideas are interesting and make some sense. When I watched the first two episodes of season 2, I thought: this show is not about the anti-corporate political action, it's about "the experience of mental illness"-- and of course I should have known TV would not actually give us a show which turned on an anti-corporate revolution. To some extent, the viewers not knowing what is going on is a better way to portray the experience of actually losing time, dissociation, delusions, etc-- the shock and confusion alternating with the experience of everyday life that seems perfectly real-- to show that from the outside, where the viewer can see exactly what is "real" vs "crazy" does not generate the same kind of cell-deep all-through empathic understanding. So, while I find it frustrating to not know what's going on, I don't think that's a bad thing and it is probably very intentional for a specific purpose-- not the plot twist of fooling the audience to keep the ending a surprise, but a purposeful forcing of living inside the experience of the character's own confusion, to generate a greater, deeper understanding of what that's really like.

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I don't know how I missed that there was already a season 2 speculation thread. My apologies!

I forgot to add my new interpretation of the kiss between Elliot and Darlene if the Tyrell/Elliot, Angela/Darlene theory is true. 

I initially thought that Tyrell was the only one with the personality disorder. I thought that Elliot forgot that Darlene was his sister because I was thinking that Darlene is actually Tyrell's sister. I thought that Tyrell was so deep into the personality that he forgot he had a sister. I now have a completely different read on that scene. 

I think that Tyrell and Angela were celebrating what they accomplished for fsociety and that Tyrell/Elliot was probably acting on feelings that he's had for Angela for ages. I think Angela/Darlene pulled away because Tyrell is married to Joanna. I think that's what disgusted her. She pulls away and she asks 'Elliot' if he forgot again. She tells him that she needs him to tell her who he thinks she is. Elliot looks totally confused and he repeatedly calls her Darlene. If Darlene is really her name then why does Elliot saying this make her more upset than ever? She starts crying and Elliot cuts her off before she can say who she is. They part after that (IIRC) and Elliot spends all of this time wondering how he could have possibly forgotten that he has a sister. 

Another observation I forgot to mention--Angela and her positive affirmations. It reminds me of Tyrell giving himself affirmations as he looks in the mirror and gets ready to meet with Philip about the CTO position. I think Tyrell recognized that he was starting to become unhinged and was working overtime to try to get himself together. I think that Angela is feeling similarly overwhelmed with her double life and is trying to keep herself focused. 

I think Tyrell being locked away has scared her into not wanting it to happen to her again. 

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I at first resisted the theory that Elliot isn't really at his mom's but admit now that everything about his new routine fits with being in a psychiatric hospital: common dining, with him tolerating the fellow patient Leon who has glommed onto him, regular exercise hours, group therapy (the "church group"), journaling as an other therapeutic tool. The Craig Robinson character seems more to me like an orderly than a patient but could be either.

I hope, however, that we don't have any other characters suffering from mental illness. If everything we see is at several removes from reality, it gets hard to invest in the story.

Tyrell remains a problem for me. Unless we can't trust any of the news coverage we see, it's the person with Martin Wallstrom's face who is Tyrell, and no one knows where he is. If he'd been hauled off to the hospital, then someone would notice. I also can't imagine how he would have time to live both Tyrell and Elliot's lives nor fail to be recognized by those like Gideon who know both of them. Nevertheless, I have always felt strongly that he and Elliot are somehow the same person. I hope we find that out one way or the other this season.

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14 hours ago, Cardie said:

I at first resisted the theory that Elliot isn't really at his mom's but admit now that everything about his new routine fits with being in a psychiatric hospital: common dining, with him tolerating the fellow patient Leon who has glommed onto him, regular exercise hours, group therapy (the "church group"), journaling as an other therapeutic tool. The Craig Robinson character seems more to me like an orderly than a patient but could be either.

I hope, however, that we don't have any other characters suffering from mental illness. If everything we see is at several removes from reality, it gets hard to invest in the story.

Tyrell remains a problem for me. Unless we can't trust any of the news coverage we see, it's the person with Martin Wallstrom's face who is Tyrell, and no one knows where he is. If he'd been hauled off to the hospital, then someone would notice. I also can't imagine how he would have time to live both Tyrell and Elliot's lives nor fail to be recognized by those like Gideon who know both of them. Nevertheless, I have always felt strongly that he and Elliot are somehow the same person. I hope we find that out one way or the other this season.

I think that Tyrell is registered at the hospital under Elliot's name. He doesn't look like an executive right now and I'm sure that the people who are looking for Tyrell think that he's likely on the run.

As to how Tyrell has the time to live a double life, he and Elliot are both constantly MIA or being questioned about their whereabouts for one reason or another. Gideon noted Elliot's frequent absences. Angela and Darlene would both ask Elliot 'where have you been?' 

Right now, I think that the early scenes of us 'meeting' Darlene are really just Elliot seeing Angela as Darlene. It isn't until after Elliot kisses 'Darlene' in episode 8 that Darlene/Angela begins to have her own breakdown in episode 9 of last season. When the lawyer Angela wants to work for tells her that she can't have a job there, Angela looks totally heartbroken and desperate. Her expression is one of hurt and she's talking about how she's given up everything trying to fight E Corp. She has no money, she doesn't think that she can get another job in tech, and she's being rejected by the one person she thinks still values her. and thinks she has something to offer. Right after this happens, she gets a call from Darlene. The entire conversation that Darlene and Angela have in that museum sounds as if they're in each other's heads. In order for Darlene to get an insight into her brother, she goes to Angela. It's like she doesn't have any of her own memories to draw from.

When Angela's father tells her that he saw Darlene she's very surprised and when she asks her father where he saw Darlene, we aren't allowed to hear his answer. 

In the next scene, even though Angela and Darlene were just in two different places, they happen to both show up at the house where they think Elliot might be hiding. Angela comes in on her own, makes sure that no one is in the house and that's when Darlene pops up out of nowhere.

I'm not convinced that Angela's father is alive. When Colby is in there waiting for her with his minions, I think this was a fake out Sixth Sense kind of scene. Angela's father and Colby don't exchange any dialogue. Angela's father just sort of creeps away. It's eerily reminiscent of Elliot seeing his mother during Gideon's visit. Angela asks her father what's going on and he doesn't answer. Colby just starts talking. 

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Hello. I have not read all the posts in this thread and I sure do hope I haven't duplicated anyone else's speculations with this post. If I have, please accept my apologies and I will edit this post and delete the parts that duplicate anyone else's speculation.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would like to speculate what may develop in S2 and beyond. This speculation stems from a post I made here:

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/45805-s02e04-eps22_init1asec/#comment-2445924

You may want to take a look at this post. It explains somewhat better how and why I'm predicting the show will develop in this way. Of course, the odds are slim. But I'm just trying to have some fun.

Do you remember the scene in S2E04 where Dominique is talking with some man (presumably an FBI agent) and some other FBI techs are examing a PC that I think belonged to Romero (one of the members of fSociety)?

D asks the male agent what the techs are doing and a few seconds later, one of the techs touches a port on that PC and the port bursts into flames. I think that scene was a clue to the audience that suggests there could well be a relationship that develops between Elliot and D. She was just about to warn that FBI tech that they should take some precautions before messing about with the PC and because they didn't, they lost all the data that may have been on that PC. Of course, I can't be certain about that. But my point is that scene seemed to hint to us that this lady is a match for Elliot. She is sufficiently knowledgeable and smart enough to give Elliot a run for his money. She may even be able to investigate and arrest Elliot.

Also, the scene where she is masturbating in bed. I think that scene may be a clue that she is open to some kind of romantic adventure and perhaps some kind of relationship could develop between her and Elliot. That is all kind of speculative. But, if it develops in that way, then perhaps the show could well develop along the following lines:

S2 - a relationship will develop between Elliot and D (Dominique DiPierro) - the FBI agent. There will be some tension deciding whether she will arrest him and charge him with some crime. That could be the major focus for S2.

S3 - a very evil force appears in the show and the audience begins to learn this "Evil Doer" is planning on making some very serious attack(s) on the USA. D decides to go "rogue" and drop the idea of arresting Elliot in order to recruit him to help her defeat TED (The Evil Doer). Elliot agrees and S3 is the story of how Elliot becomes a hero (possibly only to D because everything is so secretive).

S4 - there are some unfortunate developments (perhaps Elliot develops some serious illness that threatens his life or his mental illness get worse and he finds himself planning to help people attacking the USA (either with his knowledge or because he was deceived). In any case, Elliot has to choose between helping D to fight TED or becoming an ED himself. In the end, we would hope that Elliot aligns with the Forces of Good and overcomes the dark part of his nature or his illness. Essentially, he will join the Forces of Good and reject the Forces of Evil.

S5 - Elliot learns that his illness will kill him somehow and he has to train someone or some group to take over from him and to help D in the fight against all ED's around the world to save America and our way of life - all our freedoms and our Democracy.


OK. All of this can be considered highly foolish. I'm just making these predictions to have some fun. The show may never last for five seasons and even if it does, it may not develop in this way at all. But I'm just thinking of the classic struggle between good and evil as it is usually portrayed in great stories like Star Wars or some of the other classic Greek stories.

Anyway, I'm just trying to have some fun with this.

Edited by AliShibaz
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On 7/17/2016 at 5:29 PM, Avaleigh said:

I don't know how I missed that there was already a season 2 speculation thread. My apologies!

I forgot to add my new interpretation of the kiss between Elliot and Darlene if the Tyrell/Elliot, Angela/Darlene theory is true. 

I initially thought that Tyrell was the only one with the personality disorder. I thought that Elliot forgot that Darlene was his sister because I was thinking that Darlene is actually Tyrell's sister. I thought that Tyrell was so deep into the personality that he forgot he had a sister. I now have a completely different read on that scene. 

I think that Tyrell and Angela were celebrating what they accomplished for fsociety and that Tyrell/Elliot was probably acting on feelings that he's had for Angela for ages. I think Angela/Darlene pulled away because Tyrell is married to Joanna. I think that's what disgusted her. She pulls away and she asks 'Elliot' if he forgot again. She tells him that she needs him to tell her who he thinks she is. Elliot looks totally confused and he repeatedly calls her Darlene. If Darlene is really her name then why does Elliot saying this make her more upset than ever? She starts crying and Elliot cuts her off before she can say who she is. They part after that (IIRC) and Elliot spends all of this time wondering how he could have possibly forgotten that he has a sister. 

Today (2.04) I got to wondering if Joanna/Darlene.  Bear with me here...

I think this not because I think Darlene necessarily needs an alter just because Elliot has one; but Joanna is even more mysterious and purposeless this season.  Why did she tell Bartender Toyboy she loves him?  I know it's early season days and possible that she'll have a motive/this is just more generic Esmail weirdness, but I feel like, even with the latter's stylistic quirks he'd know only to present stuff to us that it's necessary to know about the character for story purposes; and without "a story", what is her purpose?

If Joanna is really and solely "Joanna", I see no reason why she would be needing to proclaim love for some random or, in fact, even to exist with Tyrell offsides.  Especially not "love" for a random who can't provide for her and whose only use is sex, as despite her pretty speech to Brian Stokes Mitchell, they have successfully convinced me that she does in fact need money.  For she in particular, I feel like we've reached a "put up or shut up" moment with regards to her motivations.  There's literally no current or logical reason to be following her or spending any time with her if Tyrell isn't in the story; and it's not like she's serving that great a job of placeholdering for him as it is.

Edited by queenanne

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Speculation Associated with Season 2 Episode 05

This post is a continuation of a post I made in the S2E05 thread. I think it would be inappropriate to include this post in that thread because it discusses how Elliot might free himself from Ray in the remainder of S2 or the rest of the show and I have been told it is inappropriate to discuss matters outside of the scope of that episode in that particular thread - which seems fair enough. OK. Here it is:

The underlying point I'm trying to make is that Elliot is now in the position similar to someone who is being blackmailed. When someone asks you for money in return for keeping quiet about something that would cause you serious trauma if it were released, the odds are that if you pay them once, they will keep coming back for more. The media (TV & movies) seem to have us convinced this is a very strong truth and that almost never would a blackmailer accept a single payment and then never again bother the victim. I don't know if that is true. But for the purposes of this post, I will accept that it is almost always true.

Consequently, I still believe Elliot will have to take some kind of action to eliminate Ray from his life. Elliot will have to esure that Ray is either killed or incapacitated in some way.  OK.  As several of you have stated, I will surrender to the truth that it will probably not involve any police or other legal authority. But if I was Elliot,  I would have to find a way to ensure that Ray would never again be able to make me suffer or have me beaten or force me to work for him again in any way whatsoever. I'm not exactly certain what that will require. But people who are forced to work for others usually will not deliver good quality work and although I may have some difficulty in explaining exactly why that is, I think the reason should be fairly clear. If I was Elliot and I did good quality work for Ray at gunpoint, then I'm pretty sure Ray would insist that I continue doing more and more work for him. He would also be very reluctant to pay me since he could ensure I would work for him under force. It would be a never-ending descent into Hell.

I would need to find a way to understand exactly what my work was doing for Ray and how I could make it blow up so that it would cause Ray some serious damage or result in a serious problem for him that would enable me to escape his clutches. I find this very difficult to explain in generalities. Given what we know about Ray and his site, I suppose one approach would be to arrange for the authorities to discover what Ray was doing while at the same time ensuring Ray believed I could not have had anything to do with that discovery. That must sound pretty impossible, doesn't it? So, I just don't know how to explain myself or what specific action I would take. I suppose another alternative would be to either kill Ray myself (which is highly unlikely given his criminal connections and my lack thereof) or to trade something to someone in order to have Ray killed or otherwise incapacitated (taken out of the picture) while I hide in plain sight from the commission of the crime. I'm guessing maybe E Corp. might be a good partner in this arrangement. Another alternative might be to find a way similar to what "Red" from "Shawshank Redemption" did. Remember him? Perhaps I could arrange to have all or most of Ray's profits transferred to one or more of my accounts in a way that would be a big surprise to Ray or would make it difficult for him to realize I had done that. Or maybe I could find a way to make one of Ray's clients (like a hit man) indebted to me and I could then arrange for them to do me a service and kill or incapcitate Ray as a result.

Then, I could skip the country leaving Ray holding the bag so that he will get murdered or arrested and imprisoned and then I could return at a time and place where I would be free from any consequences (especially from Ray's thugs) and I would have all the wealth that Ray would have earned from his site. One big problem is that the nature of Ray's dumb ass site promises to result in the owner/operator going to prison before it nets them any serious wealth and I don't know how to overcome that difficulty.

Edited by AliShibaz

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My speculation: the color red + Elliot = hallucination. In The Sixth Sense, red meant Cole was seeing dead people. In Elliot's Adderall-induced hallucination, the cement was mixed in a red wheelbarrow. Elliot talked to Tyrell Wellick on a red phone. The composition book in Elliot's bedroom at his mom's house says "The Red Wheelbarrow" on the cover. At the diner, there's a red drinking glass on the table. Hot Carla burns stuff in a red wagon.

Edited to add some non-Elliot red: the paint thrown on Joanna Wellick + the ribbon on the package she received.

The rest of the show is black + white with some blue + a little yellow. There are orange cushions in Angela's apartment.

Edited by editorgrrl · Reason: Why is red only Elliot + Joanna?
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