S07.E20: Reunion (Part I)

[WireWrap]

It's that freaking simple!!! Thank you!!!!

 

And no it's not childish. And no this etiquette doesn't die after high school. It's about being a nice, considerate person. Plain and simple. It's not hard and I'm not sure I would go as far as requiring official permission but at least have the decency to hash it out, give a heads up, and show that you are at least aware of the possible awkwardness that it will cause. Damn. But if not then don't go on the attack when shade gets thrown at you. It's funny when people don't like the affects of behavior they know will produce negative ramifications. 

I still don't get. I need proof that Luann and Carole were fine. I'm being serious not snarky can someone tell me what shows that Luann wasn't upset over the Adam situation? What proves that Luann was completely and absolutely fine with Carole and Adam? I'm not sure what this sure fire proof is and I'm always confused when this point is made.

Did you see/hear LuAnn stop talking to Carole or trying to shut her out? Did you see/hear LuAnn say that Carole was no longer considered a friend at any point this season? Didn't we see/hear LuAnn/Carole act just fine with/toward each other all season long? When has LuAnn ever hid or downplayed her anger with another HW in all her years on the show? The only time their "friendship" changed was AFTER the T&C trip and that was after LuAnn and Dorinda came up with the stupid excuse that Heather/Carole were trying to "catch her" in bed with some random hookup in T&C, a guy that they already knew was gone from the T&C house BTW! After T&C LuAnn's umbrage was about them trying to "catch" her, NOT about Adam/Carole relationship until the Finale when she then included Carole/Adam dating.

[WireWrap]

That was obviously the case when she was with Anthony.  But her life didn't end when his did.  If she had a strong desire to be a mother, she had years after his death to choose to be one.  So I think it's fair to say she's childless by choice.

I disagree. Not every woman wants to have children via a sperm donor, many want children with a man they are in love with in a committed relationship and we don't know if Carole ever had that type of love/relationship after Anthony died.

[ZaldamoWilder]

That was obviously the case when she was with Anthony.  But her life didn't end when his did.  If she had a strong desire to be a mother, she had years after his death to choose to be one.  So I think it's fair to say she's childless by choice.

 

That's a fair point, but she buried her husband at 36.   In Widow's Guide she references the relationships she got into after his death as being intentionally light.  The next serious relationship she had was with Russ, whom she started dating in 2010.....when she was 46. 

[Mondrianyone]

That's a fair point, but she buried her husband at 36.   In Widow's Guide she references the relationships she got into after his death as being intentionally light.  The next serious relationship she had was with Russ, whom she started dating in 2010.....when she was 46. 

 

Sure, I understand that.  But she wasn't, as far as we know, infertile, or ill herself, or in prison, or in any condition that would make biological or adoptive motherhood impossible.  So the light relationships, whatever else--that was still a choice.  I think it's probably fair to conclude that being a mother wasn't a powerful motivation for her, or she'd have done it, with or without a man.  Thousands of women do every year.  I just don't get the sense that she was all that motivated.  Which is fine--I don't have kids either, so this isn't a judgment, just an observation.

[islandgal140]

Damn all this over a greasy, unkempt chef who specializes in struggle salads. The only winner here is said greasy chef. Before the public didn't even know he was alive. Wouldn't be surprised if he got a book deal via Carole's connection, perhaps a cooking spot on some ABC talk show if Carole still has her old friends there or maybe even a slot on Top Chef.

 

Carole keeps mentioning that they are keeping it light, easy and care free. I wonder if that means they are free to date others or exclusive.

 

 

I so agree. Reading the "how dare Carole slut shame Luann" left me scratching my head and wondering if maybe I had watched a different show.
Luann started that bullshit and Carole acted in response to what Luann started.
 

 

For me it is not even about slut shaming per se. I have a personal code about friendships and the death of them and I find what Carole and Heather did gross and unforgivable. And no I don't call it 'girl code' but merely that friends, whether during the term of the friendship or when that friendship comes to an end, should NOT run around betraying confidences and/or tattling on all the shit you may or may not have done in their presence and putting it in the street.  This is why my most hated HW is Jacqueline from RHONJ. I couldn't stand that long faced botoxed heffa. She was the queen of shit like that. Friends, family would tell her stuff, she would run back and forth doing that runtelldat crap and then spill it publicly. If Carole and Heather truly did believe they were friends with Luann as they claimed, I find it a gross violation what they did. Seriously, did Heather have to mention the alleged toast. Her ass must have raised her glass to it and she seemed to be the only one to take it to heart given she had the most issues with Bethanny this season. The thing is that Luann kept her arguments and points confined to the matter at issue. Yes, Luann was messy and not necessarily on point with her arguments however, she didn't dredge up things outside of that that either Heather or Carole may have done to bolster her point. 

 

I am not on twitter or facebook but I have seen some of the things that Luann has posted about Carole and yes, Carole does have the right to clap back but I just take issue with her naming the who, how many, why and where Luann 'banged men'. All the world is pretty much aware that Luann is not a vestal virgin and who the fuck says bang anymore? Arguably Luann started it and Carole is free to finish it but I thought the means she used to 'finish it' were dishonorable, which is why I reward no points to anyone in that situation. YMMV. 

Edited August 20, 2015 by islandgal140

[motorcitymom65]

People accused bethanny at the start of the season of being like jill zarin...but wouldn't that apply to luann for trying to craft this absurd story after filming had pretty much ended?

I think so, and I think it's why Andy was questioning her hard on this. I think that for Lu this is all business and she thought she would craft this drama after the fact and that she and Carole would just move on. Much like Jill thought she could invent issues with Beth for the show, but it backfired on her. Lu has always moved on with others. Ramona in the past and Sonja last season. Rewatching last season recently it is easy to forget how furious she was with Sonja. Far more angry than she has ever been with anyone, yet she started the season as if nothing had ever happened between them. There was some slight awkwardness during their first meeting, but after that, their big issues were never addressed again. I think she thought this would be the case with Carole, but It's not working. Carole is hitting back hard and calling Lu out and she doesn't know what to do. Some people have said that Lu seemed to be imploring Carole with her eyes to cut it out and get with the program. Carole doesn't play like that and I don't see it ending well for Lu.

[bichonblitz]

Sure, I understand that.  But she wasn't, as far as we know, infertile, or ill herself, or in prison, or in any condition that would make biological or adoptive motherhood impossible.  So the light relationships, whatever else--that was still a choice.  I think it's probably fair to conclude that being a mother wasn't a powerful motivation for her, or she'd have done it, with or without a man.  Thousands of women do every year.  I just don't get the sense that she was all that motivated.  Which is fine--I don't have kids either, so this isn't a judgment, just an observation.

I agree this is where Carole was at. Motherhood was never a motivation for me, either. Until I woke up on a certain birthday and realized that I had to accept the fact that I was too old to have children and what the hell was I thinking and doing all of those years? We have to live with our decisions. And regrets. Maybe Carole doesn't regret her decision, but I think she does wonder what could have been. 

[Mozelle]

Did Andy really say it was a viewer's question?  I don't remember but your answer raises another question.  How did a viewer know to ask that question since the Reunion was filmed before Ramona's New Beginnings party episode aired?

 

I'm just catching up. It looks like motorcitymom cleared up my confusion. My bad! (Although it would have been a great catch, right?)

 

Frankel, who hasn't been able to discuss the divorce in detail due to legal threats from her estranged husband, received some support from her fellow castmates on Tuesday. "I've witnessed what Bethenny goes through in terms of this custody, child care thing," Carole Radziwill noted. "And if it was me, I would not be able to handle it as well as you handle it. I understand what some of the crying is."

 

Radziwill gave one heartbreaking example. "She calls her daughter twice a day, it's court appointed, and lots of times, her ex-husband won't answer the phone," the author revealed. "I've seen her call six, seven, eight, nine times, and she wants to talk to her daughter. She wants to say hi. She's 4. There's so many head games being played."

 

What a suck up. Annnnnnd P.S. WriterGirl, it should be "There ARE so many head games being played."  She would know a head game.

 

I'm counting on Bethenny to not be stupid and to call this brown-noser out next season.  I don't see how she can't.  #obviousbuttkisser

 

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/bethenny-frankel-opens-up-about-excruciating-jason-hoppy-divorce-2015198

 

This is so curious to me. Any friendship of Carole's (or Heather's) seems to be itch-inducing. Stick up for a friend? Butt-kisser. Don't stick up for a friend? Eager countdown to a public implosion of said friendship.

 

In no way did Luann agree that it was an okay thing in her eyes.  She mentioned her niece several times and she even said . . . "I didn't know you were fucking."  Luann agreed it had been awhile and then continued with why it is not okay.

 

At what point have I ever said that LuAnn said it was OK? What I have said is that LuAnn maintained a friendship with Carole throughout filming and afterward (even though she's trying to retcon that she was never friends with Carole during filming), literally up until the second or third week of the new season airing where she (or her ghost tweeter) went off the rails. What I have also said is that LuAnn has never been a stranger about letting folks know when she's over them (e.g., Alex, Ramona), so if she were truly upset with Carole and not her friend, Carole would have known about it long before those tweets (and LuAnn's nonsensical posted rant) dropped four months ago.

 

I still don't get. I need proof that Luann and Carole were fine. I'm being serious not snarky can someone tell me what shows that Luann wasn't upset over the Adam situation? What proves that Luann was completely and absolutely fine with Carole and Adam? I'm not sure what this sure fire proof is and I'm always confused when this point is made.

Past behavior. Specifically, LuAnn's past behavior when she's upset with/does not care for one of the other women gives me clear knowledge. How LuAnn was in Morocco with Alex is indicative of how LuAnn behaves with a woman she does not consider a friend--dismissive, snipe-y, nasty. How LuAnn was eager to translate to Ramona what the fortune teller said about Mario in Morocco is another example. She continued with Ramona the following season with that wine sniffing/tasting "prank" or whatever you want to call it. motorcitymom has pointed out how LuAnn was with Sonja last year, too. That nasty behavior wasn't leveled at Carole during filming, which is why I call bullshit on LuAnn saying that she and Carole were never friends. 

Edited August 20, 2015 by Mozelle

[Mondrianyone]

 Maybe Carole doesn't regret her decision, but I think she does wonder what could have been. 

 

Who doesn't?  I know I do.  That's the burden that comes with all the choices we make.

[shoegal]

I guess when one has the amazing skillset and intelligence to become impregnated and have a baby, you automatically become a patron saint who is allowed double standards. Heaven forbid anyone say anything insensitive about your shitty parenting or rotten child, regardless if it's a "fact". But if don't breed, you're open season on the insensitive comments about not having children, because it's a fact?

Also, the snark above is intended for Luann, not my fellow posters.

For real. LuAnn: how dare you say that, think of my children!!!! But you don't have children, so I can say whatever the fuck I want, mmmwwwwaaahahaha!!!

[Duke2801]

Sure, I understand that.  But she wasn't, as far as we know, infertile, or ill herself, or in prison, or in any condition that would make biological or adoptive motherhood impossible.  So the light relationships, whatever else--that was still a choice.  I think it's probably fair to conclude that being a mother wasn't a powerful motivation for her, or she'd have done it, with or without a man.  Thousands of women do every year.  I just don't get the sense that she was all that motivated.  Which is fine--I don't have kids either, so this isn't a judgment, just an observation.

 

It takes a special kind of maternal drive to make a single woman have or adopt a child on their own. It is most definitely not a common, everyday occurrence. And who can blame them? Babies and kids are a lot of work! Most women - again not all - have children when they get married because well, yeah, they want a kid.  But it's also the next natural "step."  It's what you do.  So, on one hand,  yes, life's circumstances did play a hand in Carole remaining child-free. 

 

I feel very confident in saying that had Lu, Ramona, or Sonja - even Kristen -  never married (or were widowed  young) they would absolutely be in Carole's shoes right now (sans offspring). 

Edited August 20, 2015 by Duke2801

[Sincerely Yours]

no snark, sincere question - what isn't childish? expecting the continuation of a relationship that's over because you're still physically involved or Lu's expectation that Carole owed her the decency of notification once she found Adam was Nicole's ex?   

 

Carole did tell Lu she was dating Adam, but by the time they were talking Lu already knew, in fact she said she'd been told earlier that day by Nicole. 

 

again, no snark, I'm genuinely curious - what should Carole have done before entering a relationship with Adam?  Have gotten permission from Luanne? Asked Adam to seek permission? 

Look for me it was about the complete disregard and the way Carole was in essence not allowing Lu to feel the way she felt about it. Lu's behavior in the beginning was actually of a person who understood that she couldn't really do anything about it and would need to figure out how to maneuver through it comfortably but Carole wasted no time in being all haughty when Lu admitted that it was a bit of an issue. I mean Lu was being honest and Carole jumped to trying to get Lu to justify why she has the right to feel how she feels and then being offended by Lu's feelings. I mean that's crazy to me. There's a justifiable reaction to an awkward situation and Carole needs Lu to what? provide a better reason than Adam is her niece's ex before she decides she going to treat the situation delicately? (Which she never does) That's too much to ask of a person? Honestly? I get that Lu started getting ridiculous in the things she was lashing out at Carole with and I completely don't approve of some of Lu's digs and comments nor her twitter presence but my main gripe is how it all started and escalated. Lu didn't really escalate it Carole did by casting shade on Lu's admission about it being a bit of an issue since it involves family for her. Lu then started taking shots at Carole I know and it was petty but I think it was fueled by Carole's initial insensitivity over the whole thing to begin with. It never would have went that far had Carole not try to insist that Lu had no reason or right to feel awkward on behalf of her niece. 

Edited August 20, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[SweetieDarling]

Damn all this over a greasy, unkempt chef who specializes in struggle salads. The only winner here is said greasy chef. Before the public didn't even know he was alive. Wouldn't be surprised if he got a book deal via Carole's connection, perhaps a cooking spot on some ABC talk show if Carole still has her old friends there or maybe even a slot on Top Chef.

 

I can just see it now; The Bravo Struggle Salad "Cook"book coming to a store near you.  I see them doing the morning talk show circuit as a team -Carol attempting the comic relief by sharing how she had no idea you could make your own tapenade, she thought it only came prepared in jars...

[Sincerely Yours]

Actually it is not that simple. Carole did not know that LuAnn's niece, Nicole, dated Adam when they, Carole/Adam, met and started dating themselves. Also, LuAnn was well aware of the flirting going on between them at her house that weekend but said nothing to Carole. Shouldn't she have mentioned that Adam USED to date her niece then and shouldn't she have said something to Adam as well? I really believe that LuAnn would have had NO problems if Carole had just had hookup sex with Adam but no relationship, it is the "relationship" part that upsets LuAnn which is, IMO, ass backwards.

It's not simple to show sensitivity to an uncomfortable situation whenever you DO become aware of details that make it delicate? Head scratcher.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[hoodooznoodooz]

All this storm because her niece was dumped...not buying it. Either she tried to hook up with Adam and failed, or she did and is humiliated because she was a quick fling while Carole was relationship material. The old girl was raging, and it was likely the whole rejection saga replayed her being dumped by the Count. Totally out of proportion. Lu would be perfect for Bad Girls Club...geriatric or no, she'd tear the place up.

I totally agree with you. LuAnn would not be so enraged if this were just concern for her niece.

[Sincerely Yours]

Did you see/hear LuAnn stop talking to Carole or trying to shut her out? Did you see/hear LuAnn say that Carole was no longer considered a friend at any point this season? Didn't we see/hear LuAnn/Carole act just fine with/toward each other all season long? When has LuAnn ever hid or downplayed her anger with another HW in all her years on the show? The only time their "friendship" changed was AFTER the T&C trip and that was after LuAnn and Dorinda came up with the stupid excuse that Heather/Carole were trying to "catch her" in bed with some random hookup in T&C, a guy that they already knew was gone from the T&C house BTW! After T&C LuAnn's umbrage was about them trying to "catch" her, NOT about Adam/Carole relationship until the Finale when she then included Carole/Adam dating.

So because she can still interact with Carole that means the Adam thing was absolutely not a problem for her? That's this indisputable proof? Welp, not for me. <shrug>

Edited August 20, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[TOL]

Question: did Lu refer to Adam as "the help" while he had the relationship with Nicole? She said that to Carole more than once. So either Nicole was banging "the help" and it was fine, or Nicole's relationship with Adam was indeed over to the point where Lu felt comfortable hiring him, or she's just making shit up because Carole and Adam are working out despite Carole's advanced age.

This could all be personal to me because I see my evil SIL in almost every word, action, mannerism, and circumstance with Luanne. It's uncanny.

[motorcitymom65]

On Carole and Heather breaking some "girl code" by revealing the confidence about the toast, or trying to throw Lu under the bus, again Lu started this. Who has the strongest bond on this show? Carole and Heather. What was Lu trying to do to that relationship when she told Heather that Carole had apologized for barging into the room and said she tried to warn Lu? If that had happened, do you think that Carole would have wanted Lu to tell Heather about it on camera? Don't you think she assumed that was a confidence? One friend talking to another? Either they believe that she was outright lying, or that she was trying to betray a friendship. After that, all bets for secret keeping are void.

[racked]

I think Bethanny would drag Jason into court if he violated the 2 calls a day order.

 

 

I think so too, and it's really bothering me that she had Carole do her dirty work and try to make it seem like Jason is purposely keeping her from speaking to her daughter all the time, when Jason will never have the opportunity to rebut that. Or at least he never would, because he avoids the press. 

 

I still enjoyed Bethenny on the latter half of the season but I hate her pretending to take the moral high ground in this divorce.  

 

And Carole...I actually like that Carole is a loyal friend, it's one of the few things I like about her. But she needs to not be B's mouthpiece on these divorce issues. 

[Grneyedldy]

I think what was offensive was the way Lu said to Carole that she didn't have children and then laughed. To my ear, it sounded unkind and mean. Lu could have expressed her thought without acting like Carole was lesser than for not having a child. Tone and delivery matter.

[zoeysmom]

Is it not also a statement of fact that half of the women have just one more child than Carole? How is that insulting?

It is a stupid statement.  It would be like saying to a pregnant woman,  "I am just missing the embryo in my uterus. "  Carole point was pointless. 

[shoegal]

It is a stupid statement.  It would be like saying to a pregnant woman,  "I am just missing the embryo in my uterus. "  Carole point was pointless.

I thought it was funny. Preach it, Carole!

[SweetieDarling]

On the subject of the alleged toast at the beginning of the season.  I didn't watch the show when Bethenny was on before, so I don't know what her previous relationship with Luann was like.  Would Luann want to take down Bethenny? was she trying to set up Heather and Carole? or is this something between Heather and Carole only?  or just another accusation to throw at Lu?

 

There did seem, at first, to be some scheming going on.  Heather did tell Kristen that everyone was at Bethenny's party, then went to Beth and told her how hurt Kristen was (who wasn't offended until she got off the phone with Heather, but not enough to bring it up. ever.)  And then there was that BS lie that Carole told Kristen about Bethenny calling Kristen dumb for naming her polish Pop of Color. If I were Kristen I'd be upset that I was being used as a pawn in this game.

 

But that's where any apparent attempts to rile Bethenny stopped (at least I think so), maybe because she didn't take the bait.  I think Bethenny, being well aware of what happens on these shows, refused to get pulled into any petty ridiculousness -she may not have been on for a few seasons, but she's no newbie.

 

Even if Luann had made the toast, Heather and Carole don't strike me as followers or people that would plot against another without valid cause.  Wasn't Luann the one that suggested they go to both brunches in the Hamptons so as not to start anything? Is she that sly? to try to look the peace maker, while adding the ingredientses to the stirring pot?  Why not just blow off Bethenny's brunch to really piss her off and get the ball rolling?....oh yeah,...free Skinny Girl blenders, no wonder they were so late to Ramona's.

 

 

[WireWrap]

Sure, I understand that.  But she wasn't, as far as we know, infertile, or ill herself, or in prison, or in any condition that would make biological or adoptive motherhood impossible.  So the light relationships, whatever else--that was still a choice.  I think it's probably fair to conclude that being a mother wasn't a powerful motivation for her, or she'd have done it, with or without a man.  Thousands of women do every year.  I just don't get the sense that she was all that motivated.  Which is fine--I don't have kids either, so this isn't a judgment, just an observation.

No, it was not a choice if she was still in mourning. That is not the time to have a child IMO.

 

Damn all this over a greasy, unkempt chef who specializes in struggle salads. The only winner here is said greasy chef. Before the public didn't even know he was alive. Wouldn't be surprised if he got a book deal via Carole's connection, perhaps a cooking spot on some ABC talk show if Carole still has her old friends there or maybe even a slot on Top Chef.

 

Carole keeps mentioning that they are keeping it light, easy and care free. I wonder if that means they are free to date others or exclusive.

 

 

 

For me it is not even about slut shaming per se. I have a personal code about friendships and the death of them and I find what Carole and Heather did gross and unforgivable. And no I don't call it 'girl code' but merely that friends, whether during the term of the friendship or when that friendship comes to an end, should NOT run around betraying confidences and/or tattling on all the shit you may or may not have done in their presence and putting it in the street.  This is why my most hated HW is Jacqueline from RHONJ. I couldn't stand that long faced botoxed heffa. She was the queen of shit like that. Friends, family would tell her stuff, she would run back and forth doing that runtelldat crap and then spill it publicly. If Carole and Heather truly did believe they were friends with Luann as they claimed, I find it a gross violation what they did. Seriously, did Heather have to mention the alleged toast. Her ass must have raised her glass to it and she seemed to be the only one to take it to heart given she had the most issues with Bethanny this season. The thing is that Luann kept her arguments and points confined to the matter at issue. Yes, Luann was messy and not necessarily on point with her arguments however, she didn't dredge up things outside of that that either Heather or Carole may have done to bolster her point. 

 

I am not on twitter or facebook but I have seen some of the things that Luann has posted about Carole and yes, Carole does have the right to clap back but I just take issue with her naming the who, how many, why and where Luann 'banged men'. All the world is pretty much aware that Luann is not a vestal virgin and who the fuck says bang anymore? Arguably Luann started it and Carole is free to finish it but I thought the means she used to 'finish it' were dishonorable, which is why I reward no points to anyone in that situation. YMMV. 

They "revealed" these tid bits to show LuAnn's HYPOCRASY! To show that LuAnn expects them to behave 1 way while she does the opposite!

 

Look for me it was about the complete disregard and the way Carole was in essence not allowing Lu to feel the way she felt about it. Lu's behavior in the beginning was actually of a person who understood that she couldn't really do anything about it and would need to figure out how to maneuver through it comfortably but Carole wasted no time in being all haughty when Lu admitted that it was a bit of an issue. I mean Lu was being honest and Carole jumped to trying to get Lu to justify why she has the right to feel how she feels and then being offended by Lu's feelings. I mean that's crazy to me. There's a justifiable reaction to an awkward situation and Carole needs Lu to what? provide a better reason than Adam is her niece's ex before she decides she going to treat the situation delicately? (Which she never does) That's too much to ask of a person? Honestly? I get that Lu started getting ridiculous in the things she was lashing out at Carole with and I completely don't approve of some of Lu's digs and comments nor her twitter presence but my main gripe is how it all started and escalated. Lu didn't really escalate it Carole did by casting shade on Lu's admission about it being a bit of an issue since it involves family for her. Lu then started taking shots at Carole I know and it was petty but I think it was fueled by Carole's initial insensitivity over the whole thing to begin with. It never would have went that far had Carole not try to insist that Lu had no reason or right to feel awkward on behalf of her niece. 

Ok, when did LuAnn allow Carole to have her feelings? It is a 2 way street and LuAnn tried to make it a 1 way street IMO.

 

It's not simple to show sensitivity to an uncomfortable situation whenever you DO become aware of details that make it delicate? Head scratcher.

Again, when did LuAnn show "sensitivity" toward Carole in this situation? It's not like Carole paraded Adam around every time she was near LuAnn. It's not like she continued to talk about her/Adams relationship whenever she was around LuAnn. Seriously, what did Carole do to rub LuAnn's nose in her relationship with Adam?

 

So because she can still interact with Carole that means the Adam thing was absolutely not a problem for her? That's this indisputable proof? Welp, not for me. <shrug>

LuAnn has NEVER, EVER hidden her feelings when she was upset with a HW. She always makes it known, does not back down and never lets them off the hook throughout the rest of the season. LuAnn is playing the Bravo game of bringing it to keep her Apple next season, even if she has to invent a fight to get it.

[zoeysmom]

It's that freaking simple!!! Thank you!!!!

 

And no it's not childish. And no this etiquette doesn't die after high school. It's about being a nice, considerate person. Plain and simple. It's not hard and I'm not sure I would go as far as requiring official permission but at least have the decency to hash it out, give a heads up, and show that you are at least aware of the possible awkwardness that it will cause. Damn. But if not then don't go on the attack when shade gets thrown at you. It's funny when people don't like the affects of behavior they know will produce negative ramifications. 

I still don't get. I need proof that Luann and Carole were fine. I'm being serious not snarky can someone tell me what shows that Luann wasn't upset over the Adam situation? What proves that Luann was completely and absolutely fine with Carole and Adam? I'm not sure what this sure fire proof is and I'm always confused when this point is made.

You and me both I don't see where Luann gave Carole any endorsement for the Adam relationship.  I don't see where Carole or Heather ever apologized to Luann either for going into her room in T&C.  They sure weren't fine during the bedazzling party.  The two of them seem to think they are entitled to behave any way they want because Heather was upset.  Luann is a bad person because she won't sign on to Heather's reaction.  In essence these women all have the same beef-when there is a situation instead of saying one is entitled to their feelings it becomes why the other person should not feel that way and they are in fact wrong for feeling that way.  That is what makes it difficult to deal with Ramona-she apologizes and moves on and there are no consequences because somewhere in RH code you have to be nice to Ramona and go to her parties.  Same with Bethenny.  So maybe they should acknowledge the other person's point of view or feelings instead of trying to argue the point to death and destroy any friendship.

Actually it is not that simple. Carole did not know that LuAnn's niece, Nicole, dated Adam when they, Carole/Adam, met and started dating themselves. Also, LuAnn was well aware of the flirting going on between them at her house that weekend but said nothing to Carole. Shouldn't she have mentioned that Adam USED to date her niece then and shouldn't she have said something to Adam as well? I really believe that LuAnn would have had NO problems if Carole had just had hookup sex with Adam but no relationship, it is the "relationship" part that upsets LuAnn which is, IMO, ass backwards.

Carole said she knew and Carole LIED when she said she had never met Nicole (photographs) and Luann said when they were together Nicole talked about Adam.  Carole even said that is why she was reluctant to talk to Luann about f&cking Adam-oh oops that was what Luann called it to Carol's face.

Edited August 20, 2015 by zoeysmom

[WireWrap]

On the subject of the alleged toast at the beginning of the season.  I didn't watch the show when Bethenny was on before, so I don't know what her previous relationship with Luann was like.  Would Luann want to take down Bethenny? was she trying to set up Heather and Carole? or is this something between Heather and Carole only?  or just another accusation to throw at Lu?

 

There did seem, at first, to be some scheming going on.  Heather did tell Kristen that everyone was at Bethenny's party, then went to Beth and told her how hurt Kristen was (who wasn't offended until she got off the phone with Heather, but not enough to bring it up. ever.)  And then there was that BS lie that Carole told Kristen about Bethenny calling Kristen dumb for naming her polish Pop of Color. If I were Kristen I'd be upset that I was being used as a pawn in this game.

 

But that's where any apparent attempts to rile Bethenny stopped (at least I think so), maybe because she didn't take the bait.  I think Bethenny, being well aware of what happens on these shows, refused to get pulled into any petty ridiculousness -she may not have been on for a few seasons, but she's no newbie.

 

Even if Luann had made the toast, Heather and Carole don't strike me as followers or people that would plot against another without valid cause.  Wasn't Luann the one that suggested they go to both brunches in the Hamptons so as not to start anything? Is she that sly? to try to look the peace maker, while adding the ingredientses to the stirring pot?  Why not just blow off Bethenny's brunch to really piss her off and get the ball rolling?....oh yeah,...free Skinny Girl blenders, no wonder they were so late to Ramona's.

LuAnn and Bethenny were never friends, they never got along at all and I can see her suggesting this. I can also see Ramona going along with the plan because she and Bethenny were not close until Jill/Bethenny fell out, Ramona hates Jill and visa versa. I don't think LuAnn was trying to set up Heather/Carole though, maybe Ramona/Sonja but not H/C. I think she, LuAnn, realized that 8 HW would stretch camera time thin for each of them, especially when Bethenny is so tight with Andy and freezing Bethenny out would translate to more camera time for her/others but that failed big time.

[Sincerely Yours]

I thought it was funny. Preach it, Carole!

I hate how Jason is always portrayed as some ogre. I mean we saw how Beth treated him and his closeness with his family. I truly think that Jason does act out of concern for his daughter. However, there really isn't a law that says once your marriage is over you need to be this perfect parent or else courts will be involved. I believe he feels that Beth's lifestyle isn't the most stable for Brynn and thinks he's probably protecting her by only complying with things that are forced by the court. I don't disagree with him either and I don't think his decisions are mind games but he picked her to be the mother of his child.

No, it was not a choice if she was still in mourning. That is not the time to have a child IMO.

 

They "revealed" these tid bits to show LuAnn's HYPOCRASY! To show that LuAnn expects them to behave 1 way while she does the opposite!

 

Ok, when did LuAnn allow Carole to have her feelings? It is a 2 way street and LuAnn tried to make it a 1 way street IMO.

 

Again, when did LuAnn show "sensitivity" toward Carole in this situation? It's not like Carole paraded Adam around every time she was near LuAnn. It's not like she continued to talk about her/Adams relationship whenever she was around LuAnn. Seriously, what did Carole do to rub LuAnn's nose in her relationship with Adam?

 

LuAnn has NEVER, EVER hidden her feelings when she was upset with a HW. She always makes it known, does not back down and never lets them off the hook throughout the rest of the season. LuAnn is playing the Bravo game of bringing it to keep her Apple next season, even if she has to invent a fight to get it.

How did Lu not let Carole have her feelings? I mean Carole til this day is having them while romping around in bed with her sperm toy. All Lu did was acknowledge that it wasn't such a cut and dry thing and emotions were involved. It got petty once Carole decided to blow off every and all persons feelings besides hers and Adams. That's all my points are about. Not about tit for tat, immature "she started it" reasoning. And when did Lu beat Carol over the head with demands that she stop seeing Adam? All she did was point out why she was ill at ease with it. Carole would inquire every so often anyway and didn't like that Lu responded snidely. I mean she knew it didn't sit well with Lu so what kind of responses she expecting from her? Why need anything from Lu at all. Carole prompted some of those unfortunate interactions as well because she was also feeling a certain kind of way about it.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[WireWrap]

You and me both I don't see where Luann gave Carole any endorsement for the Adam relationship.  I don't see where Carole or Heather ever apologized to Luann either for going into her room in T&C.  They sure weren't fine during the bedazzling party.  The two of them seem to think they are entitled to behave any way they want because Heather was upset.  Luann is a bad person because she won't sign on to Heather's reaction.  In essence these women all have the same beef-when there is a situation instead of saying one is entitled to their feelings it becomes why the other person should not feel that way and they are in fact wrong for feeling that way.  That is what makes it difficult to deal with Ramona-she apologizes and moves on and there are no consequences because somewhere in RH code you have to be nice to Ramona and go to her parties.  Same with Bethenny.  So maybe they should acknowledge the other person's point of view or feelings instead of trying to argue the point to death and destroy any friendship.

Carole said she knew and Carole LIED when she said she had never met Nicole (photographs) and Luann said when they were together Nicole talked about Adam.  Carole even said that is why she was reluctant to talk to Luann about f&cking Adam-oh oops that was what Luann called it to Carol's face.

Wait. WHAT? Heather was fine with LuAnn at the bedazzle party until LuAnn said she was still upset about T&C. Again, LuAnn started the fight that night. LuAnn has never claimed that Heather never apologized for knocking on her bedroom door and entering before LuAnn said come in and LuAnn's story about why they came into her room morphed into they trying to "catch her" with a guy they already knew had left the house before they went into anyone's room. Why isn't LuAnn furious at Ramona for setting her up, why isn't she blaming Ramona for trying to "catch her" in bed with a guy? After all, Ramona was the only 1 that knew the guy Heather saw was with her and for all she knew, LuAnn's guy was still in bed with LuAnn. Sounds more like Ramona was trying to "catch" LuAnn, NOT Heather/Carole but LuAnn is insisting all blame lies with Heather/Carole! LuAnn is far from stupid, this was/is a calculated fake fight by LuAnn to make herself look like the "victim" of big bad Heather/Carole because she had/has nothing else.

 

Also, meeting Nicole a few times does not mean they became friends that exchanged personal history or "knew" each other. It simply means they met and exchanged pleasantries in the company of LuAnn in public places/art exhibits. Also, is the Nicole/Carole Adam the only Adam in NY? LOL

Edited August 20, 2015 by WireWrap

[zoeysmom]

For those wondering what the rub was between Luann and Bethenny back in Season 1-3, essentially Bethenny felt Luann wasn't forthcoming about her off camera life and she preached the Countess stuff about manners and decorum.  Luann also took sides with Jill during the Bethenny beef and at one point when Ramona arranged a surprise meeting (surprise to Jill not Bethenny) Luann pulled Jill away when she was fumbling and not able to articulate.  Luann was never close to Ramona Season 1-3, she was pretty awful to Alex and Simon who were both in Bethenny camp.  Sonja and Bethenny always clicked.

 

Right before Bethenny returned to the show, Luann went on Bethenny's talk show and kind of copped to withholding the downfall of her marriage with Bethenny calling her out.  Jill and Alex boycotted a RHONYC Reunion on Bethenny's show.  According to Reza from Shahs of Sunset Luann was still not too happy with Bethenny after her talk show appearance.  So enter this season and Luann is on the outs with Ramona, Sonja and thick as thieves with Heather, Carole and Kristen.  I am assuming that Bethenny return was with a lot of Bethenny heavy scenes (sure seemed like it when it aired) and Bethenny was already on good terms with Ramona and Sonja so there was a chance that Luann, Kristen, Heather and Carole would become less significant.  Obviously Kristen and Heather did.

[SweetieDarling]

For those wondering what the rub was between Luann and Bethenny back in Season 1-3, essentially Bethenny felt Luann wasn't forthcoming about her off camera life and she preached the Countess stuff about manners and decorum.  Luann also took sides with Jill during the Bethenny beef and at one point when Ramona arranged a surprise meeting (surprise to Jill not Bethenny) Luann pulled Jill away when she was fumbling and not able to articulate.  Luann was never close to Ramona Season 1-3, she was pretty awful to Alex and Simon who were both in Bethenny camp.  Sonja and Bethenny always clicked.

 

Right before Bethenny returned to the show, Luann went on Bethenny's talk show and kind of copped to withholding the downfall of her marriage with Bethenny calling her out.  Jill and Alex boycotted a RHONYC Reunion on Bethenny's show.  According to Reza from Shahs of Sunset Luann was still not too happy with Bethenny after her talk show appearance.  So enter this season and Luann is on the outs with Ramona, Sonja and thick as thieves with Heather, Carole and Kristen.  I am assuming that Bethenny return was with a lot of Bethenny heavy scenes (sure seemed like it when it aired) and Bethenny was already on good terms with Ramona and Sonja so there was a chance that Luann, Kristen, Heather and Carole would become less significant.  Obviously Kristen and Heather did.

Thanks Zoeysmom!

[zoeysmom]

Wait. WHAT? Heather was fine with LuAnn at the bedazzle party until LuAnn said she was still upset about T&C. Again, LuAnn started the fight that night. LuAnn has never claimed that Heather never apologized for knocking on her bedroom door and entering before LuAnn said come in and LuAnn's story about why they came into her room morphed into they trying to "catch her" with a guy they already knew had left the house before they went into anyone's room. Why isn't LuAnn furious at Ramona for setting her up, why isn't she blaming Ramona for trying to "catch her" in bed with a guy? After all, Ramona was the only 1 that knew the guy Heather saw was with her and for all she knew, LuAnn's guy was still in bed with LuAnn. Sounds more like Ramona was trying to "catch" LuAnn, NOT Heather/Carole but LuAnn is insisting all blame lies with Heather/Carole! LuAnn is far from stupid, this was/is a calculated fake fight by LuAnn to make herself look like the "victim" of big bad Heather/Carole because she had/has nothing else.

Obviously Luann wasn't fine with Heather.  You are assuming Luann had a man in her bed Luann has NEVER said there was a man in the room with her.  Heather and Carole have priors for sneaking around and talking about what they catch people doing.  I understand where Luann is coming from and I understand Heather was upset.  The difference is Luann had no control over the man upstairs and Heather had control over whether or not to enter Luann's room.

 

Ramona is always wrong and Luann mentioned it but Ramona eked  out the lame apology to Heather which should have included Luann.  Ramona being wrong doesn't mean Heather was correct in her approach to confronting Luann in her sleeping quarters. 

[WireWrap]

I hate how Jason is always portrayed as some ogre. I mean we saw how Beth treated him and his closeness with his family. I truly think that Jason does act out of concern for his daughter. However, there really isn't a law that says once your marriage is over you need to be this perfect parent or else courts will be involved. I believe he feels that Beth's lifestyle isn't the most stable for Brynn and thinks he's probably protecting her by only complying with things that are forced by the court. I don't disagree with him either and I don't think his decisions are mind games but he picked her to be the mother of his child.

How did Lu not let Carole have her feelings? I mean Carole til this day is having them while romping around in bed with her sperm toy. All Lu did was acknowledge that it wasn't such a cut and dry thing and emotions were involved. It got petty once Carole decided to blow off every and all persons feelings besides hers and Adams. That's all my points are about. Not about tit for tat, immature "she started it" reasoning. And when did Lu beat Carol over the head with demands that she stop seeing Adam? All she did was point out why she was ill at ease with it. Carole would inquire every so often anyway and didn't like that Lu responded snidely. I mean she knew it didn't sit well with Lu so what kind of responses she expecting from her? Why need anything from Lu at all. Carole prompted some of those unfortunate interactions as well because she was also feeling a certain kind of way about it.

Carole did not talk about Adam around LuAnn after the episode she told her about dating him. Carole's responses were via her THs, she did not say much to LuAnn other than she hoped they could get past this because their friendship was important, in response. IMO, LuAnn saw the episodes, heard Carole's THs and blew a gasket then, NOT at the time it was happening. Then she went on her twitter rampage and here we are. LuAnn decided she had a problem well after the fact based on Carole's THs even though she knows the producers are asking questions no one hears except the HW being interviewed and that they are designed, the questions that is, to get a 'reaction' from each HW.

[talula]

Because Beth and Andy are besties and so Beth has serious influence on the lady's future employment, which makes them tippy-toe around her. JMO, of course.

ITA Beden. When Beth visited Andy on WWHL she mentioned calling Andy after certain things happened while taping the show. It happened more than once. He didn't seem overjoyed with her sharing this with the audience. Beth likes to share things. It made it seem like she was on a different playing field than the rest of the HWs...she has easy access to him. It's seemed like she was more of a co-producer. No doubt the ladies do not wish to rock the boat with Beth. This could be why LuAnn was very upset that Heather brought up the "take Bethenny down" toast and Carole's corrboration of the event to Beth.

Edited August 20, 2015 by talula

[ryebread]

Damn all this over a greasy, unkempt chef who specializes in struggle salads. The only winner here is said greasy chef. Before the public didn't even know he was alive. Wouldn't be surprised if he got a book deal via Carole's connection, perhaps a cooking spot on some ABC talk show if Carole still has her old friends there or maybe even a slot on Top Chef.

Carole keeps mentioning that they are keeping it light, easy and care free. I wonder if that means they are free to date others or exclusive.

For me it is not even about slut shaming per se. I have a personal code about friendships and the death of them and I find what Carole and Heather did gross and unforgivable. And no I don't call it 'girl code' but merely that friends, whether during the term of the friendship or when that friendship comes to an end, should NOT run around betraying confidences and/or tattling on all the shit you may or may not have done in their presence and putting it in the street. This is why my most hated HW is Jacqueline from RHONJ. I couldn't stand that long faced botoxed heffa. She was the queen of shit like that. Friends, family would tell her stuff, she would run back and forth doing that runtelldat crap and then spill it publicly. If Carole and Heather truly did believe they were friends with Luann as they claimed, I find it a gross violation what they did. Seriously, did Heather have to mention the alleged toast. Her ass must have raised her glass to it and she seemed to be the only one to take it to heart given she had the most issues with Bethanny this season. The thing is that Luann kept her arguments and points confined to the matter at issue. Yes, Luann was messy and not necessarily on point with her arguments however, she didn't dredge up things outside of that that either Heather or Carole may have done to bolster her point.

I am not on twitter or facebook but I have seen some of the things that Luann has posted about Carole and yes, Carole does have the right to clap back but I just take issue with her naming the who, how many, why and where Luann 'banged men'. All the world is pretty much aware that Luann is not a vestal virgin and who the fuck says bang anymore? Arguably Luann started it and Carole is free to finish it but I thought the means she used to 'finish it' were dishonorable, which is why I reward no points to anyone in that situation. YMMV.

That was beautiful. The last paragraph, particularly the last line - sublime.

Edited August 20, 2015 by ryebread

[WireWrap]

Obviously Luann wasn't fine with Heather.  You are assuming Luann had a man in her bed Luann has NEVER said there was a man in the room with her.  Heather and Carole have priors for sneaking around and talking about what they catch people doing.  I understand where Luann is coming from and I understand Heather was upset.  The difference is Luann had no control over the man upstairs and Heather had control over whether or not to enter Luann's room.

 

Ramona is always wrong and Luann mentioned it but Ramona eked  out the lame apology to Heather which should have included Luann.  Ramona being wrong doesn't mean Heather was correct in her approach to confronting Luann in her sleeping quarters. 

No, I am not "assuming" anything, LuAnn did that. Heather and Carole already knew the guy had left the house and did not know there was a second guy in the house that night. Ramona was the ONLY 1 that knew the truth and she told them that SHE knew NOTHING about any guy and told them to ask LuAnn, which means that Ramona would have been the only person that could/would hope that LuAnn still had the 2nd guy with her. Also, LuAnn was not upset at Heather/Carole entering her room until AFTER they got back from T&C and after she spoke with Dorinda first about it and that was when we got the "they were trying to catch me" BS story. LuAnn has never denied that Heather apologized to her in T&C or afterwards when they got back, never, not even on twitter.

[imjagain]

ITA Beden. When Beth visited Andy on WWHL she mentioned calling Andy after certain things happened while taping the show. It happened more than once. He didn't seem overjoyed with her sharing this with the audience. Beth likes to share things. It made it seem like she was on a different playing field than the rest of the HWs...she has easy access to him. It's seemed like she was more of a co-producer. No doubt the ladies do not wish to rock the boat with Beth. This could be why LuAnn was very upset that Heather brought up the "take Bethenny down" toast and Carole's corrboration of the event to Beth.

If the article posted in the media thread is to be believed, she is trying to cast next season, by personally calling Jenny McCarthy. I believe it, because Beth suggested Aviva. Even telling Andy (on WWHL) he owed her a muffin basket, when Aviva was acting crazy.

[izabella]

If the article posted in the media thread is to be believed, she is trying to cast next season, by personally calling Jenny McCarthy. I believe it, because Beth suggested Aviva. Even telling Andy (on WWHL) he owed her a muffin basket, when Aviva was acting crazy.

 

Oh, hell no.  Jenny McCarthy would be my last straw with this show. 

[Mondrianyone]

No, it was not a choice if she was still in mourning. That is not the time to have a child IMO.

 

Everybody grieves differently, but I think it's pretty well established among mental-health professionals that anyone who's still in active mourning more than, say, five years (and that's a generous amount of time) after the death of a spouse has some serious problems.  She wasn't too sad to have love affairs, so the idea that she couldn't possibly consider having a child if she really, passionately wanted one--especially with all the financial resources at her disposal, much more than most women who decide to have a child on their own--seems silly to me.  If she considered it and rejected it, that's a choice.  If she didn't consider it, then she wasn't interested enough, and that's a choice, too.  Signing off on this one now. 

[zoeysmom]

No, I am not "assuming" anything, LuAnn did that. Heather and Carole already knew the guy had left the house and did not know there was a second guy in the house that night. Ramona was the ONLY 1 that knew the truth and she told them that SHE knew NOTHING about any guy and told them to ask LuAnn, which means that Ramona would have been the only person that could/would hope that LuAnn still had the 2nd guy with her. Also, LuAnn was not upset at Heather/Carole entering her room until AFTER they got back from T&C and after she spoke with Dorinda first about it and that was when we got the "they were trying to catch me" BS story. LuAnn has never denied that Heather apologized to her in T&C or afterwards when they got back, never, not even on twitter.

There were two guys at the house.  Dorinda and Sonja went to bed.  Heather or Carole lied when they said a bunch of guys were keeping them up-so I would say they were very aware of the possibility of a man with Luann.  The houseboy said Luann and one guy were making out on the deck.  At no time did anyone say that had ever seen the second guy in Luann's bedroom or bed.  Carole and Heather were allegedly asleep after claiming they were awaken by the music.  Sonja said nothing except Luann knows the rules about guys, Dorinda was in bed so she saw nothing, Ramona never said anything about a man in Luann's bedroom.  Luann has NEVER said she had the Scot in her bed or she had sex with him.

 

I am sorry but Luann seemed pretty upset after Heather laid into about having different ethics and Carole questioned her about strangers and the guys last names.  They left the island after that scene.  Both Heather and Carole have said they had not heard from Luann.  Just because Luann did not address the situation at the time doesn't mean she wasn't upset.  Just because Heather apologized doesn't mean Luann was okay with what happened.  She obviously wasn't.  Even Bethenny on hearing Carole's account jumped to the conclusion that Luann was probably angry because of Carole and Heather's behavior in St. Barths and they were looking for a repeat of "catching someone". 

 

As I have said before during the Ramona apology-if Heather wanted to make it right she would have called Ramona out for sending she and Carole into Luann's room and suggested that Ramona owed Luann an apology. 

[ZaldamoWilder]

Look for me it was about the complete disregard and the way Carole was in essence not allowing Lu to feel the way she felt about it. Lu's behavior in the beginning was actually of a person who understood that she couldn't really do anything about it and would need to figure out how to maneuver through it comfortably but Carole wasted no time in being all haughty when Lu admitted that it was a bit of an issue. I mean Lu was being honest and Carole jumped to trying to get Lu to justify why she has the right to feel how she feels and then being offended by Lu's feelings. I mean that's crazy to me. There's a justifiable reaction to an awkward situation and Carole needs Lu to what? provide a better reason than Adam is her niece's ex before she decides she going to treat the situation delicately? (Which she never does) That's too much to ask of a person? Honestly? I get that Lu started getting ridiculous in the things she was lashing out at Carole with and I completely don't approve of some of Lu's digs and comments nor her twitter presence but my main gripe is how it all started and escalated. Lu didn't really escalate it Carole did by casting shade on Lu's admission about it being a bit of an issue since it involves family for her. Lu then started taking shots at Carole I know and it was petty but I think it was fueled by Carole's initial insensitivity over the whole thing to begin with. It never would have went that far had Carole not try to insist that Lu had no reason or right to feel awkward on behalf of her niece. 

 

Ah.  I gotcha.    Somebody upthread posted the link with Carole and Lu's first interaction since Adam.  When Carole entered the party, she greeted her hosts and went over to Lu and said we need to talk.  She said she hadn't seen her in days and she'd intended that they speak sooner.  That's not really the action of somebody trying to avoid what promises to be a sensitive conversation.   Carole seemed perfectly receptive to what Lu said until it started not to make sense.  It's not that Carole needs to accept that Lu's not ok with her and Adam, it's that Lu needs to accept that when what she SAYS she's pissed about isn't actually what she's pissed about, Carole gets to stop giving a shit.   Nicole feelings are the basis for a legitimate argument.  Dating a younger man or dating "the help" is not.  Luanne had a point that she should've stuck to, that all over the map can't decide on the grudge mess contradicted its validity.  If your thing is really really that you're hurt on your niece's behalf, why would there even be a distinction between a drive by fool around (which Lu said she'dve been fine with) and a relationship?  You're hurt for Nicole right? emotionally, for Nicole, what's the difference?

 

I'm sorry, this is so 3 pages ago.  About the toast, Heather and Carole didn't bring that up to be all throw Lu under the bus-ish.  Andy asked what the reaction of the other housewives was to the news that she was returning.  They answered (incompletely) and Heather was like yeah, that might be how you feel now, it wasn't then.   I can see how that would be viewed as malicious but read more hall monitor to me.

[judylo]

When did Carole meet Adam? Last October? There is a pic of Nicole and Adam if you google Nicole Nadeau:

 

Nicole Nadeau and Adam Kenworthy at the FRANKxDKNY After Party on September, 07 2014

[WireWrap]

Everybody grieves differently, but I think it's pretty well established among mental-health professionals that anyone who's still in active mourning more than, say, five years (and that's a generous amount of time) after the death of a spouse has some serious problems.  She wasn't too sad to have love affairs, so the idea that she couldn't possibly consider having a child if she really, passionately wanted one--especially with all the financial resources at her disposal, much more than most women who decide to have a child on their own--seems silly to me.  If she considered it and rejected it, that's a choice.  If she didn't consider it, then she wasn't interested enough, and that's a choice, too.  Signing off on this one now. 

What "financial resources"? What makes you think there was any money left over when he was sick and getting treatment the entire time they were married. His Aunt Jackie left him $500K when she died but I have no doubts they went through that money in just 2-3 years, even if he had medical insurance. When he was well enough, they traveled and when he was sick, they stayed at home. He did not work when his condition got worse and neither did Carole as she took care of him.  Many women think having a child should be done with someone you love and are in a relationship with, not just a sperm donor.

There were two guys at the house.  Dorinda and Sonja went to bed.  Heather or Carole lied when they said a bunch of guys were keeping them up-so I would say they were very aware of the possibility of a man with Luann.  The houseboy said Luann and one guy were making out on the deck.  At no time did anyone say that had ever seen the second guy in Luann's bedroom or bed.  Carole and Heather were allegedly asleep after claiming they were awaken by the music.  Sonja said nothing except Luann knows the rules about guys, Dorinda was in bed so she saw nothing, Ramona never said anything about a man in Luann's bedroom.  Luann has NEVER said she had the Scot in her bed or she had sex with him.

 

I am sorry but Luann seemed pretty upset after Heather laid into about having different ethics and Carole questioned her about strangers and the guys last names.  They left the island after that scene.  Both Heather and Carole have said they had not heard from Luann.  Just because Luann did not address the situation at the time doesn't mean she wasn't upset.  Just because Heather apologized doesn't mean Luann was okay with what happened.  She obviously wasn't.  Even Bethenny on hearing Carole's account jumped to the conclusion that Luann was probably angry because of Carole and Heather's behavior in St. Barths and they were looking for a repeat of "catching someone". 

 

As I have said before during the Ramona apology-if Heather wanted to make it right she would have called Ramona out for sending she and Carole into Luann's room and suggested that Ramona owed Luann an apology. 

No one informed Heather/Carole of anything. They asked Dorinda first and because she did not have her contacts in she could not/would not answer them. Then they asked Sonja/Ramona, Sonja said she knew nothing as well and Ramona told them she knew nothing and to ask LuAnn. For all Heather/Carole knew, only 1 guy was there all night because no one told them anything until they woke up LuAnn. Both Heather/Carole admit to hearing "voices", both men and women but that does not mean they thought any other guys were in the house come morning, especially in light of past experiences with LuAnn and her after hours male guests. LuAnn has never had any guy spend the night on a HWs trip, never!

 

The "house boy" didn't tell Heather/Carole anything, he told Kristen AFTER LuAnn was already awake. Oh, and both Heather and Ramona have said that Ramona apologized that same day in T&C. Why didn't LuAnn call out Ramona?

 

When did Carole meet Adam? Last October? There is a pic of Nicole and Adam if you google Nicole Nadeau:

 

Nicole Nadeau and Adam Kenworthy at the FRANKxDKNY After Party on September, 07 2014

Is the picture an intimate picture of GF/BF or is it just a picture of 2 friends? Even LuAnn admits that they broke up long before Carole/Adam started dating. And if Adam/Nicole were still scratching each others itch time to time without still being in a relationship, how is that Carole's responsibility, IMO, that responsibility falls on Adam, not Carole. Again, even Luann says they broke up and only LuAnn says they were still having sex time to time, she doesn't even claim they were sleeping with each other regularly or even "dating" again. LOL

[Sincerely Yours]

Ah.  I gotcha.    Somebody upthread posted the link with Carole and Lu's first interaction since Adam.  When Carole entered the party, she greeted her hosts and went over to Lu and said we need to talk.  She said she hadn't seen her in days and she'd intended that they speak sooner.  That's not really the action of somebody trying to avoid what promises to be a sensitive conversation.   Carole seemed perfectly receptive to what Lu said until it started not to make sense.  It's not that Carole needs to accept that Lu's not ok with her and Adam, it's that Lu needs to accept that when what she SAYS she's pissed about isn't actually what she's pissed about, Carole gets to stop giving a shit.   Nicole feelings are the basis for a legitimate argument.  Dating a younger man or dating "the help" is not.  Luanne had a point that she should've stuck to, that all over the map can't decide on the grudge mess contradicted its validity.  If your thing is really really that you're hurt on your niece's behalf, why would there even be a distinction between a drive by fool around (which Lu said she'dve been fine with) and a relationship?  You're hurt for Nicole right? emotionally, for Nicole, what's the difference?

 

I'm sorry, this is so 3 pages ago.  About the toast, Heather and Carole didn't bring that up to be all throw Lu under the bus-ish.  Andy asked what the reaction of the other housewives was to the news that she was returning.  They answered (incompletely) and Heather was like yeah, that might be how you feel now, it wasn't then.   I can see how that would be viewed as malicious but read more hall monitor to me.

And I didn't expect Carole to entertain those angles either however if she stopped giving a shit and decided she wasn't gonna entertain it anymore then that's where it should have stayed and honestly I get how sloppy Lu was but what really rubbed me the wrong way was when Carole would counter Lu's claims by speaking so definitely about the prior relationship between him and Lu's niece. Carole needed to call Lu out on the digs she kept throwing out fair enough but that didn't mean she had to keep challenging Lu's inside knowledge of Adam and her niece's relationship. And continue to speak on what happened like she was some sort of authority on the matter. I thought that was ridiculously disrespectful no matter who the ex was. I hate when new "girlfriends" take such liberties when referring to their new boy..toy..errrrr...friends prior relationships. I get that the matter kept coming up but Carole was way too "know it all" and dismissive for my taste when discussing another woman's relationship regardless if the relationship is over.

 

I personally feel that Carole had every right to challenge the age quips and the help blah blah blah. What I didn't like was that in order to keep arguing with Lu over it she had the nerve to do that dumb bitch shit where a woman takes a mans word as law and then tries to pass off what can very well be half truths as some sort of fact. Plus she's also trying to tell a woman something about her very own niece by using information from a person who has no real motivation to tell her 100% of the story. I found that part insulting as well. Hey be pissed about the shit I'm saying about age thing but I'll be damned if you going to try and convince me something is fact about MY OWN niece where I've seen shit with  my own eyes but because the dude that's fucking you told you some version of the truth u think you are equipped and informed enough to enlighten ME about what the fuck happened in MY niece's relationship. Every time would use the 3 tid bit pieces of information about the end of that relationship it felt so much like "the lady doth protest much" It's like she was trying sooooo hard to make it known that there a this really long period between the end of their technical relationship and her hooking up with him.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[WireWrap]

And I didn't expect Carole to entertain those angles either however if she stopped giving a shit and decided she wasn't gonna entertain it anymore then that's where it should have stayed and honestly I get how sloppy Lu was but what really rubbed me the wrong way was when Carole would counter Lu's claims by speaking so definitely about the prior relationship between him and Lu's niece. Carole needed to call Lu out on the digs she kept throwing out fair enough but that didn't mean she had to keep challenging Lu's inside knowledge of Adam and her niece's relationship. And continue to speak on what happened like she was some sort of authority on the matter. I thought that was ridiculously disrespectful no matter who the ex was. I hate when new "girlfriends" take such liberties when referring to their new boy..toy..errrrr...friends prior relationships. I get that the matter kept coming up but Carole was way too "know it all" and dismissive for my taste when discussing another woman's relationship regardless if the relationship is over.

 

I personally feel that Carole had every right to challenge the age quips and the help blah blah blah. What I didn't like was that in order to keep arguing with Lu over it she had the nerve to do that dumb bitch shit where a woman takes a mans word as law and then tries to pass off what can very well be half truths as some sort of fact. Plus she's also trying to tell a woman something about her very own niece by using information from a person who has no real motivation to tell her 100% of the story. I found that part insulting as well. Hey be pissed about the shit I'm saying about age thing but I'll be damned if you going to try and convince me something is fact about MY OWN niece where I've seen shit with  my own eyes but because the dude that's fucking you told you some version of the truth I think you are equipped and informed enough to enlighten ME about what the fuck happened in MY niece's relationship. 

What did Carole actually say to LuAnn and what was said during her THs? Most of Carole's comments about Adam/Nicole were said during her THs and we have no idea what the producer said to or asked Carole that elicited her response/answer. Both LuAnn and Carole seemed fine EXCEPT in their own THs. Even when LuAnn went off on twitter, Carole kept asking what had changed on twitter, LuAnn never said anything much beyond "you KNOW". LuAnn got ugly on twitter and Carole's reaction toward LuAnn at the reunion was and is, IMO, based on that.

[motorcitymom65]

There were two guys at the house.  Dorinda and Sonja went to bed.  Heather or Carole lied when they said a bunch of guys were keeping them up-so I would say they were very aware of the possibility of a man with Luann.  The houseboy said Luann and one guy were making out on the deck.  At no time did anyone say that had ever seen the second guy in Luann's bedroom or bed.  Carole and Heather were allegedly asleep after claiming they were awaken by the music.  Sonja said nothing except Luann knows the rules about guys, Dorinda was in bed so she saw nothing, Ramona never said anything about a man in Luann's bedroom.  Luann has NEVER said she had the Scot in her bed or she had sex with him.

 

I am sorry but Luann seemed pretty upset after Heather laid into about having different ethics and Carole questioned her about strangers and the guys last names.  They left the island after that scene.  Both Heather and Carole have said they had not heard from Luann.  Just because Luann did not address the situation at the time doesn't mean she wasn't upset.  Just because Heather apologized doesn't mean Luann was okay with what happened.  She obviously wasn't.  Even Bethenny on hearing Carole's account jumped to the conclusion that Luann was probably angry because of Carole and Heather's behavior in St. Barths and they were looking for a repeat of "catching someone". 

 

As I have said before during the Ramona apology-if Heather wanted to make it right she would have called Ramona out for sending she and Carole into Luann's room and suggested that Ramona owed Luann an apology.

Perhaps this is a different Lu - someone who isn't open suddenly about being irritated by people - but when did she seem upset with Heather in T&C after she made the ethics comment? Not long after that was when she said she wasn't being the Heather she knew. She said the Heather she knew was cool. She didn't seem mad at Heather about that comment, she seemed irritated that she was making such a huge deal out of everything. I might just not remember it, but outside of Carole saying she had been home from London for 7 days and Lu hadn't called her, I can't recall them saying they hadn't heard from Lu. As the matter of fact, Carole seemed very surprised to have not heard from her after London, which made me assume they must have been talking prior to that. It was also interesting when Carole told both Dorinda and Beth that she had heard Lu was talking smack about her. I wonder who would have shared that with Carole? My assumption was Heather, but I could be wrong.

[ZaldamoWilder]

And I didn't expect Carole to entertain those angles either however if she stopped giving a shit and decided she wasn't gonna entertain it anymore then that's where it should have stayed and honestly I get how sloppy Lu was but what really rubbed me the wrong way was when Carole would counter Lu's claims by speaking so definitely about the prior relationship between him and Lu's niece. Carole needed to call Lu out on the digs she kept throwing out fair enough but that didn't mean she had to keep challenging Lu's inside knowledge of Adam and her niece's relationship. And continue to speak on what happened like she was some sort of authority on the matter. I thought that was ridiculously disrespectful no matter who the ex was. I hate when new "girlfriends" take such liberties when referring to their new boy..toy..errrrr...friends prior relationships. I get that the matter kept coming up but Carole was way too "know it all" and dismissive for my taste when discussing another woman's relationship regardless if the relationship is over.

 

I personally feel that Carole had every right to challenge the age quips and the help blah blah blah. What I didn't like was that in order to keep arguing with Lu over it she had the nerve to do that dumb bitch shit where a woman takes a mans word as law and then tries to pass off what can very well be half truths as some sort of fact. Plus she's also trying to tell a woman something about her very own niece by using information from a person who has no real motivation to tell her 100% of the story. I found that part insulting as well. Hey be pissed about the shit I'm saying about age thing but I'll be damned if you going to try and convince me something is fact about MY OWN niece where I've seen shit with  my own eyes but because the dude that's fucking you told you some version of the truth u think you are equipped and informed enough to enlighten ME about what the fuck happened in MY niece's relationship. Every time would use the 3 tid bit pieces of information about the end of that relationship it felt so much like "the lady doth protest much" It's like she was trying sooooo hard to make it known that there a this really long period between the end of their technical relationship and her hooking up with him.

 

But girl this was my point earlier.  If Adam had been lying to Carole and there was something she'd heard from him that refuted Luanne's understanding, that would've been the sword in Lu's hand as she led the charge for Nicole.  If you mean Carole straight up didn't have any business having Nicole's name in her mouth, on principle, I'm right there with you but I must disagree with the assertion that she was not entitled to defend her right to be in a relationship with this man or that she was trying to make Nicole look bad in doing so.  Carole insisted that the information Adam had represented to her was true and the fact that neither Nicole or Luanne rebuke it, kinda makes it hold up for me.   I don't even really care about Adam like that lol, I just noticed that greasy topknot thing when ya'll started talking about it, but I will say that as far as his involvement goes, I don't think he lied.  I think Luanne was uncomfortable with the way things went down and where we disagree is in whose ultimate responsibility that was.    Truce?  :D 

 

No dragon resuscitating from me today, I promise.  I've already said this guy's name way too many times in the last week.

[Rhetorica]

I thought Carol said she didn't care for kids on her very fist appearance when they were introduced at the party where Ramona and Heather got in to it. I have no doubt I'll be corrected if wrong, but be nice...

[imjagain]

I thought Carol said she didn't care for kids on her very fist appearance when they were introduced at the party where Ramona and Heather got in to it. I have no doubt I'll be corrected if wrong, but be nice...

Lol

[ZaldamoWilder]

I'm jumbling my seasons but I thought she said she was surprised at being close to any - in reference to the (was it a baby shower?) she was hosting at her apartment for her friend who was already a mom.  I want to say she's the Godmother to that child.  But the reason I even kinda remember the party was because she (I think it was Carole) handed somebody's baby a balloon on the way out, maybe Heather and Jonathan's daughter, Ella.  I thought it was sweet for somebody who didn't see themselves as kid friendly necessarily. 

[imjagain]

I'm jumbling my seasons but I thought she said she was surprised at being close to any - in reference to the (was it a baby shower?) she was hosting at her apartment for her friend who was already a mom. I want to say she's the Godmother to that child. But the reason I even kinda remember the party was because she (I think it was Carole) handed somebody's baby a balloon on the way out, maybe Heather and Jonathan's daughter, Ella. I thought it was sweet for somebody who didn't see themselves as kid friendly necessarily.

I have no idea what Carole said about kids.

I do remember that baby shower, I remember thinking how sweet Jonathan and his daughter were, and how wonderful it was that he went in Heather's place to support Carole.

Guys get props so easy. Do one or two nice things and women swoon, well, at least I do.:)

Edited August 20, 2015 by imjagain