I Am Cait in the Media

[Kromm]

Yeah, damaging her daughter's growing professional credibility will be "fun". Right, creepizoid!

[iwasish]

Yeah, damaging her daughter's growing professional credibility will be "fun". Right, creepizoid!

She's entitled. Just like she felt entitled to be in the audience at Victoria's Secret. Regardless of Kendall's wishes. And since Kendall did ultimately allow Kris and Cait to attend, she'll have a hard time stopping this, if a deal is cut and she's contractually bound to it.

[millennium]

She's entitled. Just like she felt entitled to be in the audience at Victoria's Secret. Regardless of Kendall's wishes. And since Kendall did ultimately allow Kris and Cait to attend, she'll have a hard time stopping this, if a deal is cut and she's contractually bound to it.

 

It's questionable whether she would be welcome in those surroundings.

 

The fashion world is not known for its large contingent of Ted Cruz supporters.

[millennium]

Look who's trying to unring the bell.

 

Caitlyn Jenner: ''I Never Said I Endorsed Ted Cruz'' and ''I Have Not Figured Out Donald Trump''

 

News/ Caitlyn Jenner: ''I Never Said I Endorsed Ted Cruz'' and ''I Have Not Figured Out Donald Trump''

by Gabi Duncan Thu, Mar 17, 2016 12:57 PM

  

Caitlyn Jenner continues to talk politics.

 

In this clip from the E! International press junket, the I Am Cait star clarifies some of the comments she made about the presidential race and Republican candidate Ted Cruz in an interview with The Advocate, including the suggestion that the Texas senator should appoint her "trans ambassador" if he is elected.

 

"I never said that I endorsed Ted Cruz," she explains. "I said I like him. He is a constitutionalist and I think we have to get our country back to something like that."

 

She also adds, "Out of all the candidates, I also feel that as far as the LGBT community, he would probably be the worst and need the most help… If that is the case, I would be at his front door. Have they contacted me? No—which I was kind of surprised."

 

http://www.eonline.com/shows/i_am_cait/news/749287/caitlyn-jenner-i-never-said-i-endorsed-ted-cruz-and-i-have-not-figured-out-donald-trump

 

 

"Have they contacted me? No—which I was kind of surprised."

 

Oh, the ego. 

[Maire]

It didn't stop her from posing with HRC! What a hypocrite.

[iwasish]

It's questionable whether she would be welcome in those surroundings.

The fashion world is not known for its large contingent of Ted Cruz supporters.

Maybe not but they like press and publicity as much as anything else. Sadly, money trumps ideals. No pun intended.

[millennium]

IMHO, one of the best pieces yet about Jenner and the media's deification of her.  This is from The Guardian:

 

 

 

Hadley Freeman: the trouble with Caitlyn Jenner

 

Sure, it’s terrific to see a sixtysomething woman get modelling gigs. It’s wonderful that a trans woman is being lauded as a beauty icon. But. BUT

 

It’s been almost a year since Caitlyn Jenner came out as a trans woman in a TV interview, so let’s keep up with this former Kardashian clan member and see how things have been going since. Just last week it was announced that she is to be the model for H&M Sport, the store’s athletic-wear line. As is the modern way, Jenner announced the news on her Instagram account, praising the campaign as “amazing and inspiring”. This follows an announcement last month that Jenner has partnered up with MAC cosmetics, for a charity lipstick to raise money for trans communities.

 

“Well done, everyone!” announced one website. Truly, the emoji of hands clapping could be the symbol for all coverage pertaining to Jenner. Sure, it’s terrific to see a sixtysomething woman get modelling gigs. It’s wonderful that a trans woman is being lauded as a beauty icon. It’s flat out fantastic that a fashion brand is making such an effort to support trans people. But. BUT.

 

The steep curve rise of trans rights has been thrilling to witness as an outsider and, I can only imagine, extremely heartening to those in the trans community, who have for so long suffered outright abuse. Jenner has become the cipher through which media outlets prove how modern they are, lauding everything she does as “inspirational”, “amazing”, and all the other buzzwords of the BuzzFeed generation.

 

It could be argued that this rush to hyperbole is the due corrective for centuries of transphobia, which still very much exists. Yet not a single other trans person on this planet has enjoyed the privilege and public goodwill that Jenner has received since she came out. Moreover, true equality comes from being treated not as a special case, but as an equal. While the biggest issue for most trans people remains achieving acceptance, Jenner has long since sailed over that hurdle. So let’s treat her as the equal she has said she desires to be.

 

Last February, Jenner was driving her SUV in Malibu and collided with two cars, killing 69-year-old Kim Howe. You probably haven’t heard much about this sad mess, because it doesn’t fit in with the media’s nervy narrative about inspirational Caitlyn. If you have, it was likely through the joke Ricky Gervais cracked at the Golden Globes about Jenner “not doing a lot for women drivers”. He was widely criticised for that, because apparently making a joke is worse than being involved in the death of a woman. After the accident Jenner said she was “praying” for Howe’s family. Of more comfort to them might have been the financial settlement she agreed to pay Howe’s stepchildren.

 

Although investigators determined that Jenner had been travelling at an unsafe speed for road conditions, prosecutors ultimately declined to bring charges against her, deciding there was not enough evidence to secure a conviction. But I’m curious to know how many other women who had been in an accident that left another woman dead are, nine months later, named one of Glamour magazine’s Women Of The Year, as Jenner was.

But accidents happen. So let’s get to know Jenner as a person, as opposed to deifying her as a plaster saint. On her reality TV show last week, I Am Cait, Jenner, a lifelong Republican, claimed that Donald Trump “would be very good for women’s rights”. This would be the Trump who is anti-abortion, calls women “fat pigs”, describes breastfeeding as “disgusting”, opposes marriage equality and once mocked a trans beauty contestant on TV. As a brand strongly associated with gay rights and equality, I’d love to know how many other Trump fans MAC hires for its advertisements.

 

No one should demand perfection of anyone. But one of the best things about the breathtakingly brilliant TV series Transparent was how the trans character, Maura, was depicted with all her human flaws: her prejudices, privileges and pettiness. By contrast, Jenner is treated like a cute trans pet, with the media patting her on the head and not listening to a word she’s saying. They can’t even hear her words over the applause they’re giving themselves for being so open-minded. There are millions of trans people out there who don’t endorse politicians actively oppressive to women, gay and trans people. But, dazzled by Jenner’s proximity to the Kardashians, the broadcasters and the big brands keep staring at her above all, without actually seeing her.

 

“I’m not a spokesperson for [the trans] community – I am not. The media puts me in that position. I am only a spokesperson for me,” Jenner has said, with commendable self-awareness. It’s not often I can say that anyone could learn from a Kardashian, but some people could take a lesson here.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/mar/19/caitlyn-jenner-donald-trump-car-crash-hadley-freeman

 

 

My only disagreement would be with the final thought -- the idea that Jenner doesn't seek to be a spokesperson, that it's the media's fault.   That's a fallacy Jenner nurtures so that she can have it both ways -- say/do whatever she pleases without being held accountable, yet for photo ops stand on a soapbox and pretend to be an advocate. 

Edited March 20, 2016 by millennium

[SmithW6079]

Jenner has become the cipher through which media outlets prove how modern they are, lauding everything she does as “inspirational”, “amazing”, and all the other buzzwords of the BuzzFeed generation.

Because any criticism of Jenner would have been (and was) met with cries of "transphobia" and whatever other things social justice warriors use to stifle opinions different from the ones they deem "acceptable."

[Artsda]

Group media session.

http://www.eonline.com/shows/i_am_cait/news/749687/caitlyn-jenner-reveals-how-kim-kardashian-and-kendall-jenner-influence-her-style-and-says-h-m-campaign-will-be-bigger-than-fashion

[Kromm]

Because any criticism of Jenner would have been (and was) met with cries of "transphobia" and whatever other things social justice warriors use to stifle opinions different from the ones they deem "acceptable."

It hasn't been that long. I remember it well.

[millennium]

Jenner betrays transgender community

By SCOTT D. PIERCE | The Salt Lake Tribune connect
First Published Mar 18 2016 04:06PM    •    Last Updated Mar 18 2016 04:06 pm

 

Caitlyn Jenner has been criticized for being a symbol of rich, white privilege rather than a champion for the transgender community — and Season 2 of her reality show goes out of its way to validate that criticism.

 

About the best thing you can say about the current season of "I Am Cait" is that, unlike Season 1, it's not deadly dull. But that is coming at the expense of Jenner.

 

Last season on "I Am Cait," other members of the transgender community questioned if Jenner's privileged status would make it impossible for her to be a symbol and spokeswoman. Their fears have proven to be well-grounded.

 

They're being sold out by Jenner, who (in an interview with The Advocate) expressed support for a GOP presidential candidate — in this case, Ted Cruz — whom Jenner herself described as "one of the worst ones" on transgender issues. (Cruz has consistently opposed transgender and gay rights.)

 

If a transphobic candidate is elected president, that's not going to affect Jenner's life. She's insulated by her wealth and her fame.

And she readily admitted to TV critics that "Republicans haven't been very good on this issue. … Certainly the Democrats have been better on this issue."

 

But she praises Republicans and disparages (in profane terms) Democrats. She argues that she's trying to change the GOP from within.

 

"I try to tell the girls … isn't it good that they have an ally, somebody on the team that can go in there and maybe change their minds?" Jenner said. "That's a good thing. That's kind of the way I look at it."

 

Of course she looks at it that way. That it's a pipe dream is evident to everyone but her.

 

What we're learning about Jenner is that she lacks common sense. Turns out that the Cruz campaign has not contacted her about being his "trans ambassador," and she said she was "kind of surprised" by that.

 

She's the only person on Earth who is.

 

Jenner is certainly entitled to her opinion and entitled to vote for whomever she wishes. But this is more than just a personal opinion. She's set herself up as a symbol and a spokeswoman for transgender people — perhaps to keep the reality-TV money flowing — and bears an additional responsibility because of that.

 

Her protestations to the contrary ring hollow.

 

"I am not a spokesman for this community," Jenner told TV critics. "Everybody in the media kind of puts me in that because, obviously, I'm in the media a lot. But I am only a spokesman for me and my story."

 

Well, there's an old political trick — blame the media. Because the media are to blame for all of her reality shows, apparently.

But it's downright dishonest to insist you're not a spokeswoman and then say, "I want to change people's thinking on this issue. … These are smart, intelligent, fun people to be around, and they need to be represented positively out there."

 

If you don't want this role, get off TV. Don't show up to accept awards. Keep your mouth shut. Live a quiet life away from the cameras.

 

It's not as if Jenner is insulated from the knowledge that she is, indeed, a role model.

 

Ella Giselle, an 18-year-old who joined "I Am Cait" for Season 2, said Season 1 of the show was "this legitimizing moment of who I was. … The moment Cait came out and the show started, it was almost like I was someone. I wasn't just that person that people didn't really care to know what was going on or who I was."

 

Jenner certainly seemed to be listening as Giselle spoke.

 

That Jenner received ESPN's Arthur Ashe Award for Courage at the ESPYs in July 2015 now is clearly ridiculous.

 

A 66-year-old, rich, privileged person who has spent years on reality television, who had a deal for another such show and who goes public as transgender doesn't even begin to compare to young people who risk being thrown out of their homes — who risk physical abuse — when they tell their friends and families they are transgender.

 

Those people are actually brave.

 

http://www.sltrib.com/home/3675805-155/scott-d-pierce-jenner-betrays-transgender

 

[bichonblitz]

It's official. She's the 6th Kardashian sister. Right down to her Instagram teasers. Look out, Kylie. Step aside, Kendall. There's a new model (Ford T) in town.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2016/03/11/caitlyn-jenner-model-new-line-hm-sport/81638330/

Is a 66 yr old woman really the target demographic that H&M is after? 

[iwasish]

Is a 66 yr old woman really the target demographic that H&M is after?

Aren't they connected with Balmain? Isn't Balmain connected to Olivier Rustang, whose connected to Kim and Kanye and the others in the family who wear his clothing? All very incestuous. But where a possiblity of $$$ exists......

[CousinAmy]

Caitlyn has a mantra that she uses to counsel people. She tried it out on Kim and it worked! Also, it works for non-trans* people too! 

 

Don't be insecure! 

 

*[sic]

 

http://www.eonline.com/news/750704/caitlyn-jenner-the-mantra-that-has-seen-me-through-it-all

[iwasish]

Caitlyn has a mantra that she uses to counsel people. She tried it out on Kim and it worked! Also, it works for non-trans* people too! 

 

Don't be insecure! 

 

*[sic]

 

http://www.eonline.com/news/750704/caitlyn-jenner-the-mantra-that-has-seen-me-through-it-all

How come she's so insecure about dating? Or being seen dancing with a man?  

Her posts remind me of  "Daily Affirmations by Stuart Smalley"  

example....Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.

[millennium]

Caitlyn Jenner left shaken after furious transgender protesters blast her for being a “disgrace to our community”

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/caitlyn-jenner-left-shaken-after-7638898

[Kromm]

It's really maddening that her simply saying that she's only representing herself is somehow supposed to magically erase the maneuvering everyone knows she did to get that stupid Arthur Ashe Courage thing and the big public interviews implying the same thing a year ago.

 

And yet I still get some weird sense that this "encounter" was still about making a TV show. 

 

if I were Caitlyn Jenner and really meant the "I don't represent anyone else" thing, rather than it just being words, I'd make a show of publicly returning the Arthur Ashe Award, saying that I hadn't understood at the time how much more courage it took for most Transgender people to exist and live their lives. Of course that might open up questions again about why and how it was presented to her, so likely that's why that'd never happen.

 

I think what will never happen is an understanding that being on TV, making cosmetic deals (even unpaid ones that ultimately give to charity), and blathering on about how she wants to usurp real models to walk a runway, is putting her into a Catch-22 that will NEVER lead to anyone believing her motivations now. 

 

On some level it doesn't matter now, because she's clearly now firmly ejected from "The Movement" (any kind of imaginary unified front from the transgender community, I mean) and I suspect that contracts or not, those ladies pretending to be her friends on the show won't be back for a third season, even if the show has one. I imagine the show would refocus on her Kardashian-like glamorous life and also edit out anything even remotely political she says thereafter. We shall see though.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Kromm

[millennium]

I suspect that contracts or not, those ladies pretending to be her friends on the show won't be back for a third season, even if the show has one. I imagine the show would refocus on her Kardashian-like glamorous life and also edit out anything even remotely political she says thereafter. We shall see though.

 

If there is a third season.   The ratings for the first episode of this season were terrible.   What strikes me as odd is that I can't find ratings for the show beyond that first episode.  In the first season, there were weekly reports on the number of viewers.   This season, I can't find anything for the 2nd, 3rd or 4th episodes.

[Artsda]

Looks like they're trying to promote on the family already.

 

http://www.people.com/article/scott-disick-honorary-trans-woman-i-am-cait-caitlyn-jenner

http://www.eonline.com/shows/i_am_cait/news/752049/scott-disick-becomes-an-honorary-trans-woman-on-sunday-s-i-am-cait-watch-the-clip

http://www.eonline.com/shows/i_am_cait/news/752135/omg-caitlyn-jenner-kisses-ex-kris-jenner-on-the-lips-before-smooching-candis-cayne-in-new-i-am-cait-promo-watch

[Kromm]

If there is a third season.   The ratings for the first episode of this season were terrible.   What strikes me as odd is that I can't find ratings for the show beyond that first episode.  In the first season, there were weekly reports on the number of viewers.   This season, I can't find anything for the 2nd, 3rd or 4th episodes.

Usually places like Zap2it and TVSeriesfinale.com have that info for shows, but you're correct they don't with this. I'm thinking perhaps to an extent they rely on the broadcasters to supply data in press releases, because there are SO many shows out there now to dig through Neilson & online streaming figures with.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Kromm

[millennium]

Usually places like Zap2it and TVSeriesfinale.com have that info for shows, but you're correct they don't with this. I'm thinking perhaps to an extent they rely on the broadcasters to supply data in press releases, because there are SO many shows out there now to dig through Neilson & online streaming figures with.

 

It just seems odd that something as black and white as television ratings can't be found even for an episode that is four weeks old.  I can't be the only person wondering.   The media was all over the show's ratings last season and seemed poised to do it again, especially after the terrible ratings for the first episode.   I would think that as Jenner kept alienating more and more viewers -- the "trans ambassador" debacle, for example -- the press would be salivating to show what effect it had on the viewership.

[Artsda]

The show won a GLAAD award.

 

http://tvline.com/2016/04/03/glaad-media-awards-winners-2016-list-sense8-transparent/

 

OUTSTANDING REALITY PROGRAM
I Am Cait (E!) — WINNER (tie)
I Am Jazz (TLC) — WINNER (tie)
New Girls on the Block (Discovery Life)
The Prancing Elites Project (Oxygen)
Transcendent (Fuse)

 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Artsda

[represent]

Jennifer Boylan looks pretty, I like her dress. Or it might be a jacket/blouse plus skirt and not a dress, but I like it on her, the top is great.  I can't see I forgot her name, the one standing somewhat behind Cait in the white dress, I think I might like her dress as well. The pattern looks pretty and the cut fits her like a glove. 

Edited April 3, 2016 by represent

[Kromm]

How do you have a tie for any legitimate award?

 

I smell bullshit. CAA strikes again.

Hollywood is so in CAAs pocket. It's how Jenner keeps getting away with this shit.

[maraleia]

I thought I Am Jazz was a way better show and deserved to win the award all by themselves.

[millennium]

If this were Project Runway All Stars, Jenner would be Sam.

 

GLAAD has been in bed with Jenner from day one, probably hoping to increase its own profile/influence by piggybacking the Jenner/Kardashian circus.    I have zero respect for the group.   How can GLAAD keep a straight face (no pun intended) while honoring a person who time and again in the past year has used both her show and her soapbox to do blatant disservice to the transgender community?   

Edited April 3, 2016 by millennium

[millennium]

Oh, and since I know some folks here like Transparent:

 

 

 

Caitlyn Jenner is joining the cast of ‘Transparent’

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/04/03/caitlyn-jenner-is-joining-the-cast-of-transparent/

Edited April 3, 2016 by millennium

[Madding crowd]

Becoming Us was a really good show; it was about real people not celebs. I assume that's why it was cancelled, but I thought it was great. For those who haven't seen it, it was about two dads as they went through the transition to become female. Both had really good kids and there was a lot of frank discussion on what people like to be called ( one parent wanted to either be mom or her first name and the other woman wanted to still be dad).

These people were never on TV before but they all came across better than Caitlin.

[Febgirl]

If this were Project Runway All Stars, Jenner would be Sam.

 

GLAAD has been in bed with Jenner from day one, probably hoping to increase its own profile/influence by piggybacking the Jenner/Kardashian circus.    I have zero respect for the group.   How can GLAAD keep a straight face (no pun intended) while honoring a person who time and again in the past year has used both her show and her soapbox to do blatant disservice to the transgender community?   

Of course.  Isn't Jenny Boylan  co-chair of GLAAD?  Now it all makes sense....

[millennium]

Caitlyn Jenner threatens to ruin one of TV’s best shows

By Robert Rorke

 

The weekend brought the distressing news that Caitlyn Jenner will appear on Season 3 of the award-winning Amazon series “Transparent.” Though the LGBT community is reportedly tickled and producers have called this “a dream come true,” it’s really a terrible idea.

 

Jenner’s 15 minutes of fame ended when her lackluster vanity project, “I Am Cait,” had its second season premiere. The ratings were abysmal. Just 745,000 viewers tuned in, down more than 500,000 from its first season finale.

 

The public was done with her, proving what many of us knew all along: that Jenner was a novelty act.

“Transparent” doesn’t need her, either.

 

The show’s talented ensemble cast speaks for itself. Stunt casting of this sort reeks of desperation. Does creator Jill Soloway think more people will tune in to see Jenner? The dismal numbers on Jenner’s own show already promise that won’t happen.

 

Jenner’s special brand of banality also promises she won’t have anything interesting to say or do. Because she never does. She has used her alliance with the LGBT community as camouflage for her lack of personality or intellect.

 

Soloway should know better, but perhaps her own reliance on identity politics as a storytelling device reveals a deeper agenda. The public has embraced “Transparent” because Jeffrey Tambor has made Maura’s struggle for identity and understanding personal, sympathetic and universal all at the same time. Resorting to distractions like Caitlyn Jenner threatens to jeopardize the show’s integrity, creative vision and status as something we look forward to watching.

 

Many series from “Ugly Betty” to “Empire” have been ruined by stunt casting. Amazon execs should not let “Transparent” fall into their ignominious company.

 

http://nypost.com/2016/04/04/caitlyn-jenner-threatens-to-ruin-one-of-tvs-best-shows/

 

 

I don't watch Transparent because I despise Jeffrey Tambor so deeply.   This dislike goes back to my impressionable years when Tambor portrayed a dysfunctional judge or attorney on "Hill Street Blues."  I never liked the character, whom I found unctuous and obnoxious, but for one story arc he was advised by his therapist to dress in female attire for work -- but only the clothing, no hair, no makeup, just dresses and skirts and blouses.   Each week the character would show up in partial drag, with his big bald head, making a mockery of the whole concept.   It was all played for laughs.  I was young, probably in junior high, but even then it struck me as so wrong that I hold it against Tambor to this day.   In my opinion, casting Tambor for Transparent is like hiring Milton Berle.

 

Anyway, adding Jenner to this show GUARANTEES that I will never watch it.

[Kromm]

I want justification for the writer's statement "Though the LGBT community is reportedly tickled".

 

Is this the part where we're supposed to automatically equate whatever GLAAD says with "the LGBT community"?

[Kromm]

Caitlyn Jenner suddenly decided recently to act like anti-transgender laws bother her. Well... once:

 

Caitlyn Jenner, Hillary Clinton & Others Slam North Carolina’s Anti-LGBT Bill

 

That said, I bet she's still not a Bruce Springsteen fan (who's taken far stronger actions than just tweeting about it):

 

Bruce Springsteen Cancels North Carolina Show Due to Anti-LGBT Law

[millennium]

It keeps her name in the headlines.   Period.

 

I guess as far as the media's concerned she's the only transgender person in the world now ...

Edited April 8, 2016 by millennium

[SmithW6079]

I want justification for the writer's statement "Though the LGBT community is reportedly tickled".

Is this the part where we're supposed to automatically equate whatever GLAAD says with "the LGBT community"?

Yes, of course. Look at this very forum, which enforces the GLAAD-dictated list of words and phrases that are acceptable to use.

[kieranpigpig]

Alrighty then....

Caitlyn Jenner, who announced her transition from man to woman last year, has considered de-transitioning, the author of a new book about the Kardashian family told TheWrap on Wednesday.   http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/the-wrap/article/Caitlyn-Jenner-Experienced-Sex-Change-7462964.php http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/the-wrap/article/Caitlyn-Jenner-Experienced-Sex-Change-7462964.php

So will she then get to be "man of the year" next year?? So confusing this gender fluid thing....

Edited May 12, 2016 by kieranpigpig

[millennium]

She probably had a bad day or two where her assistants called in sick and she had to dress herself and do her own hair and makeup.

[Artsda]

Caitlyn Jenner's rep slams report claiming she has considered de-transitioning: 'Of course it's not true'

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/caitlyn-jenner-rep-slams-report-considered-de-transition-article-1.2634440

[Kromm]

11 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Caitlyn Jenner's rep slams report claiming she has considered de-transitioning: 'Of course it's not true'

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/caitlyn-jenner-rep-slams-report-considered-de-transition-article-1.2634440

It's an interesting (and in some ways troubling) twist that detransitioning is now going to be this hot potato people are afraid to talk about (or maybe even admit to). I suppose that's part of the problem with having figureheads (and even worse, a figurehead like Caitlyn Jenner, who's an idiot). If there's even a possibility they could do this, it's going to be dragged through the mud and the worst case made of it.
 

The real danger is this whole thing going the way things have gone with gay people who get subject to organized (mostly religious) efforts to convince them they made a mistake--except this is even a level beyond that if it involved surgery. If somebody legitimately reevaluates (or comes to some conclusion that they're bisexual, or in the case of gender, gender-fluid instead of transgender), these ideas are too complex for most people to process. They're only barely getting used to people being gay, or transgender. 

[GaT]

15 hours ago, kieranpigpig said:

Alrighty then....

Caitlyn Jenner, who announced her transition from man to woman last year, has considered de-transitioning, the author of a new book about the Kardashian family told TheWrap on Wednesday.   http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/the-wrap/article/Caitlyn-Jenner-Experienced-Sex-Change-7462964.php http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/the-wrap/article/Caitlyn-Jenner-Experienced-Sex-Change-7462964.php

So will she then get to be "man of the year" next year?? So confusing this gender fluid thing....

I didn't know de-transitioning was a thing (not that I believe that Caitlyn is going to), is it common? I would think by the time somebody finally gets around to transitioning, they would have put a lot of thought into it, & their doctors would have had discussions with them to make sure they were psychologically right for it . What happens, do they just wake up one day & realize that they weren't the wrong sex, they were actually cross dressers all that time?

[Artsda]

This entire quote was from someone who wrote a trashy tell-all that wasn't even anything new to sell books. 

Based on everything we've seen of Cait she is all about being and using her transition for her gain. MAC deal, Vanity Fair cover, boasting about how she has a Balmain purse, saying she's the happiest she's ever been, wanting to walk a fashion runway with Kendall. Naked for Sports Illustrated? None of that sounds like someone who wants to go back. She'll all into trying to be one of her daughters.

[Kromm]

54 minutes ago, GaT said:

I didn't know de-transitioning was a thing (not that I believe that Caitlyn is going to), is it common? I would think by the time somebody finally gets around to transitioning, they would have put a lot of thought into it, & their doctors would have had discussions with them to make sure they were psychologically right for it . What happens, do they just wake up one day & realize that they weren't the wrong sex, they were actually cross dressers all that time?

Think of the world we live in. Humans are flawed. That means mistakes from several directions:

• Genuinely a small--I think VERY small--number of people who transition in error. Recognizing there are probably some people who really fit this is important, I think. Even here you have to suppose there are different flavors: people who totally confused aspects (like cross-dressing vs. gender preference), vs. people who changed their mind to some kind of gender-fluid interpretation, but regret the surgery (assuming some happened--remember it doesn't have to) for other reasons.
• A larger group who have doubts, buyer's remorse you might call it, after the fact and misinterpret/overemphasize them.
• A last group (who knows the size) who are pushed into recanting and trying to reverse it, for the same reasons we see people talked/brainwashed out of identifying as gay.

Doctors and psychologists being involved, even through the whole process, is no assurance. Feeling it out in the first place doesn't mean you can't have confusion--or on the negative side coercion--to change your mind later. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by Kromm

[millennium]

5 hours ago, Artsda said:

Caitlyn Jenner's rep slams report claiming she has considered de-transitioning: 'Of course it's not true'

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/caitlyn-jenner-rep-slams-report-considered-de-transition-article-1.2634440

I'll just throw this out there: the denial stems from the same person who for a long time denied reports that she was pursuing gender reassignment.

[kieranpigpig]

1 hour ago, Artsda said:

Based on everything we've seen of Cait she is all about being and using her transition for her gain. MAC deal, Vanity Fair cover, boasting about how she has a Balmain purse, saying she's the happiest she's ever been, wanting to walk a fashion runway with Kendall. Naked for Sports Illustrated? None of that sounds like someone who wants to go back. She'll all into trying to be one of her daughters.

Cait is into the glam of being a woman, not the hard work. I see how much my mum works, she does everything, works as a freelance designer, keeps a garden, takes care of the pets, does the laundry, cleaning the house and cooking for my dad and me. It is all about everyone else, and when she finally sits down to have her tea it is after working for several hours to attend to all that needs to be done for all of us to be happy. Not that every mum is so self sacrificing, but mum's usually do put everyone else first, it is just what they do, that nurturing thing inside I think. Cait is not about any of that, not one little bit that I have seen. Maybe it is the Kardashian self centered reality, but thankfully that is not how many women are! From my perspective, being a woman is so much more than makeup and fancy dresses.

[millennium]

1 hour ago, Kromm said:

Think of the world we live in. Humans are flawed. That means mistakes from several directions:

• Genuinely a small--I think VERY small--number of people who transition in error. Recognizing there are probably some people who really fit this is important, I think. Even here you have to suppose there are different flavors: people who totally confused aspects (like cross-dressing vs. gender preference), vs. people who changed their mind to some kind of gender-fluid interpretation, but regret the surgery (assuming some happened--remember it doesn't have to) for other reasons.
• A larger group who have doubts, buyer's remorse you might call it, after the fact and misinterpret/overemphasize them.
• A last group (who knows the size) who are pushed into recanting and trying to reverse it, for the same reasons we see people talked/brainwashed out of identifying as gay.

Doctors and psychologists being involved, even through the whole process, is no assurance. Feeling it out in the first place doesn't mean you can't have confusion--or on the negative side coercion--to change your mind later. 

Jenner jumped in head first.

As far as I know there was no trial period where she lived with the daily routines of being a woman.   There's a huge difference between occasional cross-dressing and full-time living.    Suddenly, styling your hair, fussing over your clothes, doing your make-up isn't a thrill or a rush anymore -- it's more like an obligation.   And it can get old very fast for someone who was raised male and never had to do more than pull on a shirt, pants and run a comb through his hair before leaving the house -- even if you're into crossdressing.  

I was only half-joking above when I said Jenner probably had a bad day or two when her assistants weren't available to dress her.   

Most people take it for a test drive before committing to something as drastic as facial feminization surgery and breast augmentation.   Not Jenner.   The course she took was nothing short of reckless if you ask me, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if she's having second thoughts.

But you see, her transition had to be all or none because if she took baby steps like everyone else, she never would have made the cover of Vanity Fair, nor received courage awards or any of that other bullshit.   She appears to have allowed factors outside of herself to dictate the speed and degree of her transition (including as reported  the possibility of rushing things in the hopes of avoiding prosecution in the car wreck).   That reason alone is enough to make me question her sincerity.  

Edited May 12, 2016 by millennium

[iwasish]

On May 12, 2016 at 6:03 PM, millennium said:

Jenner jumped in head first.

As far as I know there was no trial period where she lived with the daily routines of being a woman.   There's a huge difference between occasional cross-dressing and full-time living.    Suddenly, styling your hair, fussing over your clothes, doing your make-up isn't a thrill or a rush anymore -- it's more like an obligation.   And it can get old very fast for someone who was raised male and never had to do more than pull on a shirt, pants and run a comb through his hair before leaving the house -- even if you're into crossdressing.  

I was only half-joking above when I said Jenner probably had a bad day or two when her assistants weren't available to dress her.   

Most people take it for a test drive before committing to something as drastic as facial feminization surgery and breast augmentation.   Not Jenner.   The course she took was nothing short of reckless if you ask me, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if she's having second thoughts.

But you see, her transition had to be all or none because if she took baby steps like everyone else, she never would have made the cover of Vanity Fair, nor received courage awards or any of that other bullshit.   She appears to have allowed factors outside of herself to dictate the speed and degree of her transition (including as reported  the possibility of rushing things in the hopes of avoiding prosecution in the car wreck).   That reason alone is enough to make me question her sincerity.  

Her try out period I'm betting was the time spent up in Malibu, living alone, dressing up as a woman and wandering around her big empty house.  I think her friend Ronda probably visited her and they did lunch. Perhaps she dressed up and drove around Malibu or went to movies etc. Outside of organizing her closet and playing with makeup I think that was the extent of her trial period.

[millennium]

5 hours ago, iwasish said:

Her try out period I'm betting was the time spent up in Malibu, living alone, dressing up as a woman and wandering around her big empty house.  I think her friend Ronda probably visited her and they did lunch. Perhaps she dressed up and drove around Malibu or went to movies etc. Outside of organizing her closet and playing with makeup I think that was the extent of her trial period.

The RLT (Real Life Transition) period used to be mandatory before a doctor would proceed with any irreversible surgical procedures (orchiectomy, penectomy).   The duration was 1-3 years, in which time the patient would be administered hormones and be required to live AND work as a woman.   Working in the chosen role was considered an important requirement because it subjected the candidate to some of the daily stresses of existing as a real woman in society.

I have read that the RLT is being abandoned by some doctors in this era of instant gratification, which is probably too bad as it was said to prevent confused crossdressers and delusional individuals from making an irreversible mistake.

Technically speaking, Jenner has had no gender reassignment confirmation surgery.   She has made surgical alterations to her face and chest.   Even if this were the "old days" she could have gotten away with that without undergoing the RLT "test drive" period.   Some female impersonators or drag queens were already doing it back then.

Edited May 14, 2016 by millennium
to cater to politically correct terminology that seems to change every other week

[princelina]

On 5/12/2016 at 3:42 PM, GaT said:

I didn't know de-transitioning was a thing (not that I believe that Caitlyn is going to), is it common? I would think by the time somebody finally gets around to transitioning, they would have put a lot of thought into it, & their doctors would have had discussions with them to make sure they were psychologically right for it . What happens, do they just wake up one day & realize that they weren't the wrong sex, they were actually cross dressers all that time?

From things I've read, it's more that, once the exciting newness of the sex change wears off, they are still depressed and unhappy and realize that the sex change didn't fix their problems.

10 hours ago, millennium said:

The RLT (Real Life Transition) period used to be mandatory before a doctor would proceed with any irreversible surgical procedures (orchiectomy, penectomy).   The duration was 1-3 years, in which time the patient would be administered hormones and be required to live AND work as a woman.   Working in the chosen role was considered an important requirement because it subjected the candidate to some of the daily stresses of existing as a real woman in society.

I have read that the RLT is being abandoned by some doctors in this era of instant gratification, which is probably too bad as it was said to prevent confused crossdressers and delusional individuals from making an irreversible mistake.

Several years ago, (before Cait) I stumbled across the blog of a young transgender person who intrigued me so I followed for a while - she was around 18 when she went to her parents about her feelings; parents took her to a counselor who, according to the blogger, told her parents that she MUST begin transitioning immediately or she would commit suicide.  She was full of praise for her parents for following the counselor's recommendation, but as an impartial observer I was rather shocked and dismayed that one counseling session could lead to such a quick transition with the approval of everyone!  Because I had always thought that people had to live that way for a while, as you described.  It seemed as if the teen had the therapist's help in bullying her parents into giving her her way, and no one was in the role of the grown up.

As far as Cait goes - she seems to enjoy glamming herself up, and then has her hobbies like golf, bike racing etc.  Perhaps now that she's lived out her womanly fantasies of magazine covers, evening gowns and glam squads, she's finding that she's over it and it's easier to be a man for her preferred hobbies?

[millennium]

Thing is, if she were to go back on it now, it would mean sacrificing her cash cow and her "brave and beautiful" reputation.   She would be publicly demoted to exactly what all the sages in the "Comments" sections of internet news articles have written her off as: a mental case.   A fraud.

I don't think her ego could bear it.   Which is why I suspect she will live out her days in this new persona whether she likes it or not -- and if it happens to be the latter, well, wouldn't that be an O. Henry ending?

[iwasish]

8 hours ago, millennium said:

Thing is, if she were to go back on it now, it would mean sacrificing her cash cow and her "brave and beautiful" reputation.   She would be publicly demoted to exactly what all the sages in the "Comments" sections of internet news articles have written her off as: a mental case.   A fraud.

I don't think her ego could bear it.   Which is why I suspect she will live out her days in this new persona whether she likes it or not -- and if it happens to be the latter, well, wouldn't that be an O. Henry ending?

Go back to being Bruce? Maybe but I doubt it. 

At least not til she's  crossed the final frontier of dating/sex. I think she's going to try and squeeze another few shows out of this and take us on that journey with her. Not sure I'm ready for it.

[Cosmic Muffin]

9 hours ago, millennium said:

Thing is, if she were to go back on it now, it would mean sacrificing her cash cow and her "brave and beautiful" reputation.   She would be publicly demoted to exactly what all the sages in the "Comments" sections of internet news articles have written her off as: a mental case.   A fraud.

I don't think her ego could bear it.   Which is why I suspect she will live out her days in this new persona whether she likes it or not -- and if it happens to be the latter, well, wouldn't that be an O. Henry ending?

Millennium, nice O. Henry reference. Years ago on another website someone referred to something being like "the gift of the crack magi", so that might be how this turns out. I don't remember what they were talking about but the phrase has stuck with me. I think maybe the only way Caitlyn could do more damage to the transexual community would be to reverse her decision.