A Case Of The Mondays: Vent Your Work Spleen Here

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

This really depends on the field.  I'm a librarian with the requisite master's degree, and I would kill to make that salary range while keeping the same level of responsibilities.  I may hit the lower end of that range next year if funding stays the same.  

I don't know is this is up your alley, but a lot of people with MLIS degrees work in the tech industry as taxonomists and make low six figures. 

[Ohiopirate02]

15 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I don't know is this is up your alley, but a lot of people with MLIS degrees work in the tech industry as taxonomists and make low six figures. 

My degree technically says MLIS, but I never took any information science classes.  I went in it for the L part of the degree and even then stayed as far from cataloging as I possibly could.  

[crazycatlady58]

1 hour ago, PepSinger said:

And…

I have been in the workforce since 2013. I was appalled when I realized that having federal holidays off weren’t a given, especially after coming out of K-12 and college where federal holidays were a plenty. At my first job, I started with two weeks off plus five federal holidays. That was it. No sick days were included. By the time I left, I had three weeks off & 6 holidays. My next job, I only got two weeks off, but I did have all federal holidays off. Then, I went to work in the hospital system, which is where I am at currently (although I’ve moved around in the system once). Now, while I’ve switched positions, I get 20 days off (vacation, sick, personal looped in together), and nine federal holidays. Next year, we will get Juneteenth off.

I say all this to say that just because something has “always been that way” doesn’t mean it’s right or good for employees. The reason people look forward to federal holidays is that they are probably hoping and praying for additional time off to live their lives because their current PTO is inadequate. The U.S. has an incredibly unhealthy work culture, and it needs to be fixed. Europe is so far ahead of us that it’s ridiculous. Personally, I think that no job should have less than three weeks off, no less than six sick days, and should have all federal holidays off. I’ve gotten to the point where I will not accept less than four weeks of PTO at any job going forward. Plus, I take a two week break during the holidays to work from home, which has been an improvement for my mental health since I’m able to be with my family. Highly recommend.

If you work retail there is no way everyone can get federal holidays off. I think we should but I can imagine the complaints if Walmart say was closed every holiday. 

[Ohiopirate02]

6 minutes ago, crazycatlady58 said:

If you work retail there is no way everyone can get federal holidays off. I think we should but I can imagine the complaints if Walmart say was closed every holiday. 

There was a time when retail establishments were closed on major holidays.  Then Walmart came along, and decided they would be open 24/7 365 days a year barring those 18ish hours between 6pm Christmas Eve and 6am December 26th.  Walmart is one of the few retailers who can handle being closed for more federal holidays.  Both Chick-fil-a and Hobby Lobby are closed every Sunday without huge amounts of backlash.  There would be complaints, but Walmart could weather it.  They would also get a lot of praise for pretending to care about their employees.  It would wash out.  

[bilgistic]

It was always...something...when I was working at the grocery store on Christmas Eve and a customer would say, "When do you get off? I hate that you have to work today!"

Dumbass, you're the reason I'm here! Christmas is the same day every year. Plan better!

At my now former job, we plebians earned (accrued monthly after six months) only 10 PTO days per year. Of course, not being encouraged to use the time, I didn't use it, and then was told at the end of 2021 that I couldn't carry over more than 40 hours.

I didn't get paid for my 30+ hours of unused PTO when I was released from my position. I asked about it, but it was "part of my [two-week] severance. I have no recourse, and this is why I'll hope to never have to work for an agency again.

Edited June 21, 2022 by bilgistic

[irisheyes]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

There was a time when retail establishments were closed on major holidays.  Then Walmart came along, and decided they would be open 24/7 365 days a year barring those 18ish hours between 6pm Christmas Eve and 6am December 26th.  Walmart is one of the few retailers who can handle being closed for more federal holidays.  Both Chick-fil-a and Hobby Lobby are closed every Sunday without huge amounts of backlash.  There would be complaints, but Walmart could weather it.  They would also get a lot of praise for pretending to care about their employees.  It would wash out.  

My husband works at Walmart. For the longest time, his only paid holiday off was Christmas (but he had to work Christmas night, so no vacation). Now, he gets Thanksgiving too, but, again, he has to work Thanksgiving night. We don’t live near family, so it can make the holidays tough. 

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, bilgistic said:

It was always...something...when I was working at the grocery store on Christmas Eve and a customer would say, "When do you get off? I hate that you have to work today!"

Dumbass, you're the reason I'm here! Christmas is the same day every year. Plan better!

LOL, my mom used to make this same rant when she worked retail and had to work a holiday.

But yeah, I agree  - unless one's business is the sort that absolutely NEEDS to remain open on a federal holiday for some legit important/serious reason (medical/law enforcement/things of that sort), I think most places could be closed and people would manage just fine. Like you said, they can learn to plan and get whatever they need to get so they're all set before the holiday gets here. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

39 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Like you said, they can learn to plan and get whatever they need to get so they're all set before the holiday gets here. 

Trust me, th earth will continue to spin, even if Aunt Blabby can't rush to pick up that can of gelatinous cranberry goo, or Cousin Skippy missed out on the last bag of day-old rolls.

[supposebly]

Unless things have changed radically since I left 20 years ago, grocery stores are closed on Sunday in Germany with some exceptions at train stations and gas stations. That includes statutory holidays.

The country has not fallen in the abyss.

[chocolatine]

46 minutes ago, supposebly said:

Unless things have changed radically since I left 20 years ago, grocery stores are closed on Sunday in Germany with some exceptions at train stations and gas stations. That includes statutory holidays.

The country has not fallen in the abyss.

Yes, they're still closed on Sundays. It used to be that stores were only open until 6pm on weekdays, with a "long" day on Thursdays until 8pm, and on Saturdays they closed at noon or 1pm. Now most stores are open Monday through Saturday until 9 or 10pm, but still closed on Sundays and major public holidays.

[BlackberryJam]

I suppose I’m the instigator of this topic. I am the owner of a small law firm. If I don’t bill collectible hours, I don’t get paid. If I don’t have staff available answering the phones, preparing pleadings, e-filing, scheduling, and typing dictation, I am “over billing” clients because I have to bill them for the secretarial/paralegal work I end up doing, and then I get fewer clients, or clients who won’t pay. 

I have a minimum number of hours I need to bill each month, and collect on, to keep my firm afloat. I add a certain number of hours to that to pay my own salary. If someone is getting shorted in any given month, it’s me, not my staff. 

I cover 100% of health insurance, give a 2% to IRA without an employee match and give 15 paid days off per year, plus select holidays. Eleven federal holidays would be me giving staff 5 paid weeks per year each. It’s not feasible. I can only do it if I don’t pay myself anything for two months per year and pay myself only what I pay the staff for the other 10 months. Why would I even have the business if I’m not at least paying myself more than I pay my staff? 

Are my options to increase my hourly rate to clients and price myself out of the market? Cut staff pay to account for those paid hours when billable (and collectible) time isn’t being created? Stop paying insurance? Tell staff they have to job share and pay them hourly, not salary? I don’t carry massive overhead and payroll makes up 30% of that. Insurance is another 10%, then I get to rent, equipment, etc. 

I don’t deny that breaks from work and mental health days are important, but when I’m doing the monthly accounting, I just don’t know how to make it work. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by BlackberryJam

[bilgistic]

22 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Why would I even have the business if I’m not at least paying myself more than I pay my staff? 

You've almost made the connection here.

[PepSinger]

1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

I don’t deny that breaks from work and mental health days are important, but when I’m doing the monthly accounting, I just don’t know how to make it work

To be fair to you, I don’t have the solution, either. I honestly think it would take a massive investment from the government to encourage a more friendly work environment. Also, perhaps tax incentives would be something to help. It’s just a big paradigm shift, IMO, that we as a country need to work on.

[BlackberryJam]

8 hours ago, bilgistic said:

You've almost made the connection here.

So close the business? Fire them? Take years of education and earn less than paralegal salary? What about my mental health? Why don't I, as the boss, matter?

[theredhead77]

If people want federal holidays off they need to work for the Feds or at at bank / financial institution. 

As someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas or Easter I am irritated that I can't take care of my business because stores are closed. I'm still irked that my company forces me to use one of my floating holidays to take Christmas Eve off while also expecting me to use my PTO to take off Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur (if I observed) or people from other religions to use PTO to observe their holy days. We close early on Good Friday (only my area) and we get negative reviews because people are trying to conduct business at our stores but they can't, because we're closed.

Why don't we shut down retail establishments for holidays everyone can celebrate, like July 4th, New Years Day, and Thanksgiving. And when I say Thanksgiving, I mean closed all day, none of this opening at 12:01am Friday nonsense so people can't enjoy their day off. 

[BlackberryJam]

14 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

If people want federal holidays off they need to work for the Feds or at at bank / financial institution. 

As someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas or Easter I am irritated that I can't take care of my business because stores are closed. I'm still irked that my company forces me to use one of my floating holidays to take Christmas Eve off while also expecting me to use my PTO to take off Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur (if I observed) or people from other religions to use PTO to observe their holy days. We close early on Good Friday (only my area) and we get negative reviews because people are trying to conduct business at our stores but they can't, because we're closed.

Why don't we shut down retail establishments for holidays everyone can celebrate, like July 4th, New Years Day, and Thanksgiving. And when I say Thanksgiving, I mean closed all day, none of this opening at 12:01am Friday nonsense so people can't enjoy their day off. 

It does suck that so many federal holidays are aligned with Christian holidays, employees are forced into them and then the appropriate religious holidays are ignored. When I worked for State government, we had one Jewish person employed at my level. As a Court, we held arraignments 365. He took the Christmas ones. The Court just gave him Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur off as extra PTO. None of the rest of us made a fuss about it because, meh, we didn't care, and screw the government anyway ;)

[PepSinger]

1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

It does suck that so many federal holidays are aligned with Christian holidays, employees are forced into them and then the appropriate religious holidays are ignored. When I worked for State government, we had one Jewish person employed at my level. As a Court, we held arraignments 365. He took the Christmas ones. The Court just gave him Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur off as extra PTO. None of the rest of us made a fuss about it because, meh, we didn't care, and screw the government anyway ;)

Just want to add in my agreement about how unfair that is. I didn’t even think about holidays more so being aligned with Christian dates until five or six years ago. I believe at my job those taking time off for religious reasons do not have to use PTO, which I applaud.

[theredhead77]

1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

It does suck that so many federal holidays are aligned with Christian holidays, employees are forced into them and then the appropriate religious holidays are ignored. When I worked for State government, we had one Jewish person employed at my level. As a Court, we held arraignments 365. He took the Christmas ones. The Court just gave him Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur off as extra PTO. None of the rest of us made a fuss about it because, meh, we didn't care, and screw the government anyway ;)

It did benefit me when I worked retail. Back in the day I was a courtesy clerk and bakery assistant at Albertsons. This was so long ago we were part of the union and that meant triple time pay for Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving and probably a few more days. I always volunteered to work, got my triple time and never had an issue getting July 4th afternoon/evening or NYE / NYDay off.

[JTMacc99]

14 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Are my options to increase my hourly rate to clients and price myself out of the market? Cut staff pay to account for those paid hours when billable (and collectible) time isn’t being created? Stop paying insurance? Tell staff they have to job share and pay them hourly, not salary? I don’t carry massive overhead and payroll makes up 30% of that. Insurance is another 10%, then I get to rent, equipment, etc. 

I love your whole post so very much!

Every business, big or small, works like what you describe. The term "bottom line" comes to mind. Anybody who has ever had a role in managing the finances for a business has felt the stress of knowing that the decisions they make have to result in the business achieving the targeted bottom line. People's jobs, their income that supports their families, depend on the decisions you make.

But, you know, that's not anybody else's problem.  Other people have their own problems, such as whining about not having another paid day off.

[emma675]

This is why I don't think I could ever own my own business or have employees. I would crack under all of that pressure from employees, myself, and keeping the business profitable. 

[JTMacc99]

On 6/21/2022 at 10:54 AM, Moose135 said:

'Entry level salary'

And we all know 'competitive salary' means it will be competing with your bills, and not always winning...

One of my coworkers told me last week that his son got a job (he's a college student, so not full time) as an usher at a Broadway theater.

It pays $28 an hour.

He said that he imagined his son will have to do other things when he's not "ushing".  

[bilgistic]

5 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

So close the business? Fire them? Take years of education and earn less than paralegal salary? What about my mental health? Why don't I, as the boss, matter?

You could bring in a partner or two, outsource your accounting/bookkeeping (or hire a bookkeeper) so you aren't spending billable hours on it, market more/at all to gain more clients, and delegate more to, again, have more billable hours, but it doesn't seem like you are interested in any of that because of wanting to be "the boss" and have control over everything. Yes, you are ultimately responsible, but you have to trust people to do their jobs, and you have to pay them their worth and allow them time off.

Employees need supportive leaders who encourage them and foster a healthy workplace.

Edited June 22, 2022 by bilgistic

[Cloud9Shopper]

I have an interview tomorrow and I am hopeful that this could finally be the one. The recruiter I had my first phone screen with was great, and when she called me yesterday, she gave me some tips on how to prepare for the interview. It wasn’t just fluff either like the person who decided to “help” me a few months ago by sending me an article on “how to answer tell me about yourself”. It’s a tech sales gig so she prepped me in such a way that I can treat it like a sales interview. The pay is in line with what I want and the product sounds interesting.

I hope this is the one. I have my quarterly performance conversation at my current job tomorrow and I no longer care to set goals, especially since my boss’s boss made it clear that she doesn’t want to lose me on my current team. I’m just pretending at this point to check off the box for my boss and HR. 

[BlackberryJam]

1 hour ago, JTMacc99 said:

I love your whole post so very much!

Every business, big or small, works like what you describe. The term "bottom line" comes to mind. Anybody who has ever had a role in managing the finances for a business has felt the stress of knowing that the decisions they make have to result in the business achieving the targeted bottom line. People's jobs, their income that supports their families, depend on the decisions you make.

But, you know, that's not anybody else's problem.  Other people have their own problems, such as whining about not having another paid day off.

Some soulless corporations do have Boards of Directors making fat stacks of cash for attending four meetings per year. That could absolutely be cut to give employees better benefits and more time off. I'm not denying that.

But for most businesses, the bottom line is real. I have a friend who is an electrician with his own company. He has 35 employees. He still has to pay his own mortgage with the money he earns. He had a "bad" financial year last year only to discover his trusted bookkeeper/payroll person had embezzled, at last count 40k from the business. He's still searching and has had to hire a forensic accountant. All of his employees got paid every pay period. The owner didn't. The employee said she did it because she figured he could afford it. 

Business owners have mortgages, student loans, kids in college, the same way employees do. And our money isn't guaranteed like it is for salaried employees.

I don't know the answer. All I can do is be a kind person, pay a fair wage (I pay above local average) and provide the benefits I am able without working for less than a Broadway usher. 

33 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

You could bring in a partner or two, outsource your accounting/bookkeeping (or hire a bookkeeper) so you aren't spending billable hours on it, market more/at all to gain more clients, and delegate more to, again, have more billable hours, but it doesn't seem like you are interested in any of that because of wanting to be "the boss" and have control over everything. Yes, you are ultimately responsible, but you have to trust people to do their jobs, and you have to pay them their worth and allow them time off.

Employees need supportive leaders who encourage them and foster a healthy workplace.

A partner or two would require more staff, and have less available money for staff to be paid.

I do outsource 60% of the bookkeeping, which is 7k a year out of available funds to pay employees. 

Billable hours aren't always collectible hours. I have a commitment to myself to represent at least 5 abused women living between 120 and 200% of federal poverty level per year. Should I stop doing that? I already work 60 hours per week, minimum. Should I increase that to 80? Market more? I am actually turning clients away because my staff can't handle the current workload.

The assumption that this is about my need for control is misplaced. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by BlackberryJam

[PepSinger]

20 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

On 6/21/2022 at 10:54 AM, Moose135 said:

'Entry level salary'

And we all know 'competitive salary' means it will be competing with your bills, and not always winning...

One of my coworkers told me last week that his son got a job (he's a college student, so not full time) as an usher at a Broadway theater.

It pays $28 an hour.

He said that he imagined his son will have to do other things when he's not "ushing".  

As someone who works part time in theatre, I applaud him for making $28/hr. No one understands the utter bullshit we put up with from entitled assholes—patrons and sometimes actors!!!— alike. Ushering could also mean doing tickets, bar, and coat check as well. Right now, my theatre pays front of house a measly $15/hr (asst House managers get $16.50/hr), and they have the nerve to wonder why turn over is high. I live in one of the most expensive cities in the country that’s not NYC. In fact, I’m drafting an email today to send to higher ups at the theatre on behalf of the entire FOH for the latest BS they’ve done. When you pay the bare minimum, you get the bare minimum. 🤷🏽‍♀️ 
 

Also, college is expensive as hell. I would’ve cried happy tears if I had made $28/hr during then.

[emma675]

50 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

but it doesn't seem like you are interested in any of that because of wanting to be "the boss" and have control over everything. Yes, you are ultimately responsible, but you have to trust people to do their jobs, and you have to pay them their worth and allow them time off.

I'll respectfully disagree with you here. I didn't get a need for control or wanting to be "the boss" from her post at all. I felt it was more like needing her employees to act like grown up professionals even though they didn't get the day off. Being a passive aggressive brat about not getting a paid holiday is not how I as an employee would act, nor how I would expect others to act, no matter how bitter I was about it. Federal holidays are wonderful, but no company (aside from government or banking companies, I suppose) is required to give them to employees. Maybe I'm a hardened old vet, lol, but I never expect to receive every federal holiday, no matter where I work. 

And I could never be an usher--I've seen the way people treat them and it's unreal. I actually apologized to one on Broadway once after I saw a lady berate him for her seat location. Like he could do anything about that. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by emma675

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, PepSinger said:

Just want to add in my agreement about how unfair that is. I didn’t even think about holidays more so being aligned with Christian dates until five or six years ago. I believe at my job those taking time off for religious reasons do not have to use PTO, which I applaud.

Just a reminder, not all Christians are Protestants.  The Orthodox and Byzantine churches are just as Christian as Methodists and Baptists, but operate under a different calendar.  They are in the same boat as other religions when it comes to celebrating their holidays in America.  

[PepSinger]

I totally forgot about that even though my phone tríes to remind me every year. Thanks, @Ohiopirate02

8 minutes ago, emma675 said:

I felt it was more like needing her employees to act like grown up professionals even though they didn't get the day off. Being a passive aggressive brat about not getting a paid holiday is not how I as an employee would act, now how I would expect others to act, no matter how bitter I was about it. Federal holidays are wonderful, but no company (aside from government or banking companies, I suppose) is required to give them to employees. Maybe I'm a hardened old vet, lol, but I never expect to receive every federal holiday, no matter where I work

Yeah, and the thing about it is, if an employee’s sticking point is that, then they are more than welcome to find another job that accommodates their PTO needs. That is the beauty of at will employment. If I don’t like something, I can leave. However, no job is perfect, so you better weight what’s important to you before you turn in your notice.

[ABay]

And if your manager doesn't like something , they're free to fire you at will.

Sometimes I feel like Norma Rae: Union. Europe has more and stronger unions than the U.S. and are more worker-friendly overall. I have 22 vacation days a year, which accrue, 15 sick days a year, which also accrue, and 3 personal leave days that expire at the end of the year. All of those were won through collective bargaining. But it's still less than a comparable position would get in France, Germany, Denmark, etc.

ETA: Also, pretty good health care and 11 holidays.

Edited June 22, 2022 by ABay

[theredhead77]

Don't "we" (America) say we want more small businesses? And when it comes to small businesses, like all businesses, there is a give and take between what employers can offer and employees will accept.

[JTMacc99]

3 hours ago, PepSinger said:

As someone who works part time in theatre, I applaud him for making $28/hr.

When he first told me the rate, at first it hit me as wow, that would translate to an annual salary of almost $60K.  

But it's not at all the way to think about it for several reasons. It's a Manhattan hourly rate. I'm assuming that is what is fair and required to find good people to do that job.

As you note from your own personal experience, you get what you pay for. Good or bad. (Although pay for bad, probably going to get bad. Pay for good, hopefully you get good.)

[theredhead77]

12 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

When he first told me the rate, at first it hit me as wow, that would translate to an annual salary of almost $60K.  

But it's not at all the way to think about it for several reasons. It's a Manhattan hourly rate. I'm assuming that is what is fair and required to find good people to do that job.

As you note from your own personal experience, you get what you pay for. Good or bad. (Although pay for bad, probably going to get bad. Pay for good, hopefully you get good.)

On that salary scale, a senior level analyst position I was looking at had the salary range posted (yay) as an hourly rate (boo) and it capped out at just over $60k (WTF?!). This is for a huge multi-national, Fortune ranked company.

Did I mention this was a senior level position?? 

[crazycatlady58]

5 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

I love your whole post so very much!

Every business, big or small, works like what you describe. The term "bottom line" comes to mind. Anybody who has ever had a role in managing the finances for a business has felt the stress of knowing that the decisions they make have to result in the business achieving the targeted bottom line. People's jobs, their income that supports their families, depend on the decisions you make.

But, you know, that's not anybody else's problem.  Other people have their own problems, such as whining about not having another paid day off.

Well I was not whining about not having another day off with pay. We get 6 holidays off with pay however a couple of those days the stores are open. I would like to have the store closed on thises days ( Ju,y 4th and Memorial day ) so I could be with family. I could take those days off and make my employees work but that's not fair. On those days we are not busy in fact we probably have 1/2  the number of customers that normal. I don't want more days off with pay just want to be able to enjoy the ones I do have. Just wanted to be clear we have sat the full month of July to take out paid say off for the 4th.

Edited June 22, 2022 by crazycatlady58

[Cloud9Shopper]

So I think my interview today went well. The hiring manager said I could get in touch with the recruiter by early next week about next steps if I don’t hear anything.

After that, I heard from another company who was interested in me, and I was happy at first. And then I saw they wanted me to take a personality assessment and a cognitive test…with a webcam on. Uhhh. I’m pretty sure that says a lot about how their company runs. I don’t really have time to do it today anyway but taking a test on webcam that has nothing to do with the job feels inappropriate.

I also had my performance discussion with my boss today. He keeps saying he knows I want to be promoted and we’ll see what kind of projects I want to work on, and that there was no behind the scenes discussion where anyone said “Oh we don’t want Cloud9 to take the job.” I just feel like we keep repeating ourselves but nothing actionable has happened even though he says he gets where I’m coming from. I’m really out of patience especially since we’re still on “if an ID job becomes available.” I’ve been here three years with no performance issues. You either can promote me or you can’t especially since I may have to compete with outside applicants when a job opens…

[bilgistic]

56 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

After that, I heard from another company who was interested in me, and I was happy at first. And then I saw they wanted me to take a personality assessment and a cognitive test…with a webcam on. Uhhh. I’m pretty sure that says a lot about how their company runs. I don’t really have time to do it today anyway but taking a test on webcam that has nothing to do with the job feels inappropriate.

Trust your gut and run from this. This is serious overreaching and yes, inappropriate...at best. You could also tell them why you won't be continuing with the job application.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Quick turnaround on the interview from this morning: I didn’t get the job. The recruiter said the hiring manager enjoyed talking with me but felt someone else had better experience that more closely matched the role.

I really thought this would be the job that broke me out of my stagnant current job. I keep getting close, but it seems like there is always someone just a little better than me or who has experience the hiring manager likes over me. And it seems like employers are still in a place where they can be picky and hold out for the best possible candidate, despite what the news insist.

It seems like that there’s nothing major wrong with me because I keep hearing I’m doing a great job at Current Job or that hiring managers love me, and I’m getting to the second round enough times. But it seems someone always slightly edges me out. I just have to be the person who is the best but the old adage of experience seems to keep winning with how many people are looking for jobs.  

[bilgistic]

2 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Trust your gut and run from this. This is serious overreaching and yes, inappropriate...at best. You could also tell them why you won't be continuing with the job application.

Right after I posted this, I had a phone screen with a woman at a company that requires the same thing, though she didn't mention the webcam. WTFFFFFF

I guess my mentally ill, introverted ass is out of the running.

[theredhead77]

2 hours ago, bilgistic said:

take a personality assessment and a cognitive test

4 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

Right after I posted this, I had a phone screen with a woman at a company that requires the same thing, though she didn't mention the webcam. WTFFFFFF

Assessments are the new ATS.

[Cloud9Shopper]

13 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Right after I posted this, I had a phone screen with a woman at a company that requires the same thing, though she didn't mention the webcam. WTFFFFFF

I guess my mentally ill, introverted ass is out of the running.

I ended up deleting the email and I’m not going to take the assessments. It’s ridiculous to demand that at all, much less even before a phone screen. (Which is another thing: HR seems to be involved in every first step these days. When I interviewed for Current Job I didn’t even hear from HR until the offer and onboarding.)

[Bookish Jen]

2 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I ended up deleting the email and I’m not going to take the assessments. It’s ridiculous to demand that at all, much less even before a phone screen. (Which is another thing: HR seems to be involved in every first step these days. When I interviewed for Current Job I didn’t even hear from HR until the offer and onboarding.)

That's one of the things that bothers me about job hunting these days. HR is far too involved with the interviewing and hiring process. 

[magicdog]

Well, big news broke this morning (I'm sure you know what that is), and just as I was leaving, the order  came down to put together some broll for an interview segment with the governor (and throughout the day I'm sure we'll have everyone else in the political sphere chatting with their opinions).  My edit partner said he'd take care of it - then he showed me the instructions in the script as to what to cut:

Quote

"NEED BROLL!  LOTS OF IT!  MAKE IT LONG!!"

That sounds a tad subjective and we couldn't help but laugh at it!  In this biz, you have to be specific.  Normally brolls are about 1 minute in length - sometimes longer when needed.  I advised him to cut about 3 minutes worth and vary it up with whatever new stuff would be coming down the FOX or CNN pike.

[bilgistic]

This seems...not great. I had sent my resume to a staffing/recruiting agency (I know) last week. Someone called me on Monday. I called back today. (Don't get on my ass about how long I took. I'm depressed as shit after being terminated, and I'm doing my best right now. I made three calls yesterday.) When I asked for the rep who called me, the woman on the phone said that the rep was no longer with them.

I actually said, "Wow! She just called me Monday."

This is the same agency that employs my ex-supervisor, so I don't have high hopes. Why am I even trying? I don't fucking know. What else am I supposed to do? I'm applying to everything. I pretty much just want to crawl into a hole with my cats and never come out again.

[emma675]

Wow, that's crazy. 

I had a recruiter reach out to me by email on a Friday, asking to set up a call about a job I applied for and saying she was excited to speak with me. Monday morning, before I even had a chance to reply to her first email, she sent me a "thanks for applying but we've decided not to pursue you" email. I would have been upset, but all I could do is laugh. The job hunting world is a mess. 

[chocolatine]

14 minutes ago, emma675 said:

I had a recruiter reach out to me by email on a Friday, asking to set up a call about a job I applied for and saying she was excited to speak with me. Monday morning, before I even had a chance to reply to her first email, she sent me a "thanks for applying but we've decided not to pursue you" email. I would have been upset, but all I could do is laugh. The job hunting world is a mess. 

From the hiring manager side, I've always had to be super hands-on with my candidate pipeline if I wanted the recruiting process to go smoothly. Even the best of recruiters are juggling hundreds of candidates at any given time, and of the applicant tracking programs that I've worked with, all of them have problems that lead to delays, miscommunication, and candidates slipping through the cracks. Just last week I was interviewing a candidate whose debrief was scheduled *before* my interview with them, so I had to chase down the coordinator and make them reschedule the debrief. It's really annoying and takes away from the time I need to do my own job, but if I don't invest that time, the process would be a huge mess and I would risk missing out on good candidates.

[mbaywife123]

My goodness, I have been reading all of your posts about seeking employment and I am flabbergasted what you all have and are going through.

Thankfully I am self employed with our family business for the past 20 years and will be able to retire in about the next 10. (Set up my own SEP savings years ago and hopefully SS will still exist when I am ready to put my feet up).

What ever happened to here is my resume, do you want to employ me? Give me an answer please, I am qualified and ready to start asap, or within two weeks.

All of this baloney of tests, multiple interviews,personal information & drawn out assemnets must be exhausting! What a load of contrived bullshit from the potential employer.

All of these so called recruiting agencies also seem like a waste of everyone's time and monies. I guess that the employers like to use them as a filter so that they don't get blamed directly for any type of discrimination in hiring employees.

Sheesh!

[magicdog]

30 minutes ago, mbaywife123 said:

What ever happened to here is my resume, do you want to employ me? Give me an answer please, I am qualified and ready to start asap, or within two weeks.

This happened.

31 minutes ago, mbaywife123 said:

32 minutes ago, mbaywife123 said:

All of these so called recruiting agencies also seem like a waste of everyone's time and monies. I guess that the employers like to use them as a filter so that they don't get blamed directly for any type of discrimination in hiring employees.

Trouble is, all I hear lately is how businesses can't find people to work for them, so they're forced to work shorter hours/work weeks.  Some blame could go to those who chose to drop out of the work force in favor of welfare, but this HR nonsense is worse.

[Cloud9Shopper]

7 hours ago, mbaywife123 said:

My goodness, I have been reading all of your posts about seeking employment and I am flabbergasted what you all have and are going through.

Thankfully I am self employed with our family business for the past 20 years and will be able to retire in about the next 10. (Set up my own SEP savings years ago and hopefully SS will still exist when I am ready to put my feet up).

What ever happened to here is my resume, do you want to employ me? Give me an answer please, I am qualified and ready to start asap, or within two weeks.

All of this baloney of tests, multiple interviews,personal information & drawn out assemnets must be exhausting! What a load of contrived bullshit from the potential employer.

It is exhausting. I made it to the next round with a potential employer (yay!) and will have a one-hour Zoom meeting, which is back-to-back half-hour meetings. The first meeting will have three people on the call and the second will be with one person. If I get through that then I have to prepare a case study and have another conversation with a manager to get through that. I would say that I realize processes get longer as you move out of entry level but this is an entry level job! It feels more pressured because if you have an off day at even one of the steps you can be kicked out of the running because someone was “a better fit.” 

Right now I am most interested in the place that only wants me to do one other interview before they make a decision, which would be the second interview. No assessments or case studies or writing samples. No personality tests or other games. Imagine that! Just talking to people! The person who would be doing the second interview is on vacation so I have to wait for next steps until she gets back but I’m happy to wait if they’re not going to put me through multiple rounds of BS.

[bilgistic]

9 hours ago, mbaywife123 said:

All of these so called recruiting agencies also seem like a waste of everyone's time and monies. I guess that the employers like to use them as a filter so that they don't get blamed directly for any type of discrimination in hiring employees.

This right here is how I was fired without cause in being employed by an agency. There was no HR I could go to about my agency rep or my boss at my assignment. There were no steps to correct or remediate whatever imaginary issues they had with me--because there were none. They decided to side with my abusive boss and let me go despite all the value I brought every day.

[SuprSuprElevated]

Perhaps recruiters/HR folks would disagree, but I cannot fathom why one would need more than two interviews to make a decision about a given candidate (coupled with any obvious background/reference checking ((as if)), etc.  I too, having been self-employed for the 17 years prior to having to become a family caregiver for most of the past 10 years, never dealt with the nonsense you here describe.  I truly fear the outcome when the day arrives that I will attempt to re-enter the workforce.  I will be the proverbial deer in headlights.  😳

[chocolatine]

40 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Perhaps recruiters/HR folks would disagree, but I cannot fathom why one would need more than two interviews to make a decision about a given candidate (coupled with any obvious background/reference checking ((as if)), etc.  I too, having been self-employed for the 17 years prior to having to become a family caregiver for most of the past 10 years, never dealt with the nonsense you here describe.  I truly fear the outcome when the day arrives that I will attempt to re-enter the workforce.  I will be the proverbial deer in headlights.  😳

I don't know about non-tech jobs, but for tech jobs there's a set of specific skills and areas that we want to test for. Even for individual contributor jobs, there are four or five areas where we need to assess expertise - programming, systems design, data analysis, communication, etc. Some companies give candidates take-home exercises, but we prefer to do them in real time. Plus there's the requisite recruiter interview as well as the hiring manager interview (I do those for my candidates only after the've passed the technical interviews, because otherwise it would be too many interviews for me).

For us, this rigorous interview loop is not just to decide whether a candidate is qualified for the job, but also at what level they should be hired. This is necessary to keep the leveling standards consistent for both new and existing employees.