A Case Of The Mondays: Vent Your Work Spleen Here

[MrSmith]

17 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Feel free to complain! Your issues are important to you, and we're all here to bitch and be sounding boards.

I appreciate that. It was just after reading through what everyone else is dealing with, I actually didn't want to complain any longer.

As for your job situation, I keep trying to think of suggestions that might help you and I keep drawing a blank. That you're able to hold your tongue and not return his venom in kind is quite amazing and really admirable. I would not have been able to because that kind of treatment is of the particular type that'll make me fight for anyone; I am constitutionally incapable of minding my own business when I witness such treatment.

I'm also sorry for you that you struggle with depression. I've dealt with it most of my life, as well, and I don't really have any strategies that might help you. Depression seems to be as unique as the person it afflicts. I know my stems from parental abuse (physical, verbal, mental, emotional) throughout my childhood and into my early 20's. It seems to be getting easier for me as I get older, too. I hope you find ways to master yours. When I pray, I'll keep you in them. In between those times, if you need a little pick-me-up, may I suggest the following videos? (No, you won't understand most of the lyrics, but that's not really the point. The choreography, cadence, and the music itself are the point. ETA: Oh, and particularly enjoy the reactions of bystanders and passersby!)

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by MrSmith

[bilgistic]

I talked with my psychiatrist. He will write me out of work for 30 days. I don't know if that or just asking for severance and leaving is better. I wouldn't come back after the leave; I can virtually guarantee that.

I regret not having electroshock therapy when I was out of work last time. It was a serious option, but I was afraid. Now, instead, I'm back to where I was when I lost my last job. I'm crying daily, feel completely hopeless, and I have very little left to give. I've let it get this far. I should've left long before now. I was foolish to think I could make this place work.

My self-esteem is just gone. I had so little to begin with, but continually being made to feel like I'm not worthwhile because I don't fit a certain mold has made it worse. I've got no fight left.

My main concern is health insurance. I have numerous prescriptions and my psychiatrist charges $125 per appointment and it's not covered by insurance. I have an FSA plan, but I've nearly exhausted it for this year. Of course, that would be gone if/when I leave anyway.

I'm just rambling. I guess I need to find out what I need to do to get the leave paperwork started. It exhausts me to think about even doing that. I'm in bad shape.

[theredhead77]

Take your 30 days and focus on you. If you and your doc feel that you need inpatient care, take it and get better. When you are on medical leave your managers cannot contact you for any work-related reason. Your customers will need to be serviced by someone else, regardless of their competence levels. I think HR are the only people that can and that is for paperwork. If anyone tries to contact you for work related reasons or gives out your personal info to customers that should be grounds for a lawsuit.

Toward the end of your 30 days meet with your doc and evaluate your health status. Perhaps he will write you out longer but don't quit if you have the option to take leave even if it is 30 days.

Edited July 20, 2017 by theredhead77

[MrSmith]

10 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

I talked with my psychiatrist. He will write me out of work for 30 days. I don't know if that or just asking for severance and leaving is better. I wouldn't come back after the leave; I can virtually guarantee that.

Well, I'm glad you're going to take the leave. I say take the first week and just periodically work on your resume while you regenerate your energy and mental fortitude. Once you're happy with your resume, start looking for a new job so you can tell the current boss what to do with the current job without ever having to go back. I think you'll find that looking for a new job will help brighten your day and your mood. There's certainly a lot of hope engendered in a job search!

Quote

I regret not having electroshock therapy when I was out of work last time. It was a serious option, but I was afraid. Now, instead, I'm back to where I was when I lost my last job. I'm crying daily, feel completely hopeless, and I have very little left to give. I've let it get this far. I should've left long before now. I was foolish to think I could make this place work.

OK. I don't know very much (ok, anything at all) about electroshock therapy, but color me horrified that this is a real option. Is it actually something that helps people? If so, H O W ? Also, it's sad that your employer has abused you to this extent. You're one of those dream employees that everyone wants who is willing to give everything they have and then some to ensure the success of the business. Take pride in that. You deserve to be proud of being such a person.

Also, until you get your leave, try to reduce how much of your time, energy, pride, and dedication you give to your job. They don't appreciate what you do for them or you (as a human being). So fuck them right in the ear! Stop giving them as much as you do. They don't deserve it and you're better than they realize. Or maybe they realize it and they're just completely sociopathic fucks. Either way, fuck them right in the ear!

My mom is like you and I know that not giving your job everything you've got is going to be hard. You're probably going to be inclined to take another hit to your pride and self-respect over it. BUT YOU SHOULD NOT AND HERE IS WHY. If you return after the leave, you're still going to give that job everything you've got while you're there. So you are not doing a worse or lesser job than you were before the leave. The only difference is you're only giving them the time and effort they're actually paying you for. If there's some damned emergency that you have to deal with after hours, document that shit sideways and then send an email that you'll be that many hours late the next day or that you're leaving that many hours early on another day (Friday? Always a good choice!). Maybe if they see all the shit you've been doing for them and how you've been contributing to their success, then perhaps possibly they might wise up and start treating you better. Even if they don't wise up (and they probably won't), you'll have achieved a work-life balance that works better for you. No job is worth your health, your sanity, or your very life. Let other people pick up your slack for a while.

The last job my wife worked before she became a housewife was one where she was doing twice as much work as every other single person on her team and doing it in the same amount of time as everyone else. I told her repeatedly to cut back because her employer doesn't care about her, but she blew me off as a jaded prick because I hated my job, my managers, and everything else about my then-current employer. Less than a year later, she blew her left knee out at work. Six months later, they accepted her "voluntary" resignation because they didn't get answers they liked from her doctors. Mind you, my wife never actually tendered her resignation. They just decided to fire her and pretend it was a resignation. The first we knew of it was when a friend of hers brought all her stuff home from the office.

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My self-esteem is just gone. I had so little to begin with, but continually being made to feel like I'm not worthwhile because I don't fit a certain mold has made it worse. I've got no fight left.

You shouldn't let those pricks destroy you like that. Let me reiterate: You are worth more than they are willing to even acknowledge in any way, shape, or form. Do not let them dictate to you what you are worth. You know you're worth more. We all know you're worth more. My self is an unassailable fortress in my mind. People can come at me like your employer is coming at you, and I'll be happy to fight them off, laughing the whole time. I know we're all different and not everybody can think about this the way I do. I'm just hoping that, by sharing, it might help you find a slightly new perspective that helps you protect you better.

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My main concern is health insurance. I have numerous prescriptions and my psychiatrist charges $125 per appointment and it's not covered by insurance. I have an FSA plan, but I've nearly exhausted it for this year. Of course, that would be gone if/when I leave anyway.

While it'll be tight (financially), it'll be worth it. Better poor than dead. To me, it sounds like if this continues much longer the way it is, that might be a very real concern (and I'm not even talking about suicide). You should be first in your life and everything else fits in around you. Don't live to work; it's just not tenable. Work to live - to do the things you enjoy when you're not at work. Don't think about work when you go home. Hell, don't think about work on the drive home. Turn the radio on to whatever you enjoy, roll the windows down (or put the top down, if convertible), and just enjoy yourself while pretending the rest of the day didn't exist.

I hope you feel better soon. Take the leave and recover yourself. Get back in touch with the things and people you enjoy. Maybe learn to just "be". I don't know what'll work for you, but you're the most important thing in your life and you're worth fighting for.

[DeLurker]

@bilgistic - I think your work place sounds crippling and one which requires a huge amount of testosterone to even begin to survive.

Do take the time you need to reset your bearings, but please don't cut yourself off from human contact.  It sounds like your life has been structured such that the toxic work environment has put you in recluse mode just to maintain some semblance of mental/emotional balance.  You're very aware your self esteem has been beaten down and that is a terrible time to be isolating yourself (at least for me).

I'm not a joiner, but when my life was upside down it really helped me to go to some meditation and yoga classes.  Other people, but not overly social environments.  I checked some out that were offered through the community center and YMCA.  I still do meditate, but on my own.  I found a yoga class through my gym which worked great for me.  Subsequent physical problems put a sad end to my yoga, but it did help before.

Go volunteer a couple of hours at an animal shelter or rescue.  Help tend and socialize some puppies or kittens.  It'll be helping them and it will probably be pretty therapeutic for you.

Balance your time so you're healing, working on resume/new job, and just quieting the chaos that is your carrying around with you. And please know you're an important part of this community and we care that you're hurting.

[ennui]

26 minutes ago, DeLurker said:

Other people, but not overly social environments.

Public library. Very peaceful. Preferable to commercial book stores, although people like to hang out there, as well.

Bilgistic, catch your breath, then get moving forward. 

Intended for levity, with affection:

Edited July 20, 2017 by ennui

[ABay]

@bilgistic, I was so happy to read your post. This is a really positive step. You might want to just sleep the first 2 weeks--go with it. You need time to unclench. Like @theredhead77 said above, later in the 30 days find out about getting more time; these assholes owe you a lot of money not only for the work you've done, but the mental suffering they've inflicted. 

[bilgistic]

I'm working from home tomorrow and am going to try to get in to see the doctor. Thank you all for your support and kindness. It really does mean a great deal to me.

[MrSmith]

Well, I went and read up on ECT. My curiosity got the better of me. I take back what I said about it earlier. It's interesting the varied effects electricity can have on the body. @theredhead77, detente?

[bilgistic]

No doctor appointment today. Nothing until Monday at 3:20. I've told my boss I'll be in Monday (which are the worst days because of Monday morning meetings and putting out fires all day) and I'll need to leave early. Crickets. He's probably pissed, but there's not much I can do about that.

[BookWoman56]

5 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

No doctor appointment today. Nothing until Monday at 3:20. I've told my boss I'll be in Monday (which are the worst days because of Monday morning meetings and putting out fires all day) and I'll need to leave early. Crickets. He's probably pissed, but there's not much I can do about that.

After all the crap your boss has put you through, in your situation, I would have zero fucks to give about whether he's pissed off.

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, MrSmith said:

Well, I went and read up on ECT. My curiosity got the better of me. I take back what I said about it earlier. It's interesting the varied effects electricity can have on the body. @theredhead77, detente?

Don't make me applaud you, MrSmith!  Because I may have given a slow clap for a hot minute (anything more than that hurts my arms).  Well done, Sir. :-)

[walnutqueen]

I probably should have said this before, but way back in the 90s, I saw ECT work wonders on a dear mother figure who slipped into a catatonic state under my roof.  After all else failed, ECT brought her back to functional, with even a spark of her formerly delightful dry wit.  So, I'm a Believer (cue The Monkeys' song).

[MrSmith]

1 hour ago, BookWoman56 said:

After all the crap your boss has put you through, in your situation, I would have zero fucks to give about whether he's pissed off.

1000x this!

1 hour ago, walnutqueen said:

Don't make me applaud you, MrSmith!  Because I may have given a slow clap for a hot minute (anything more than that hurts my arms).  Well done, Sir. :-)

I promise I'll delay any more personal growth until your arms are feeling better. :D

[walnutqueen]

7 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

I promise I'll delay any more personal growth until your arms are feeling better. :D

Please don't - they will never get any better, and you've proven that you still can.  I have ice packs for the arms, and can handle any gentlemanly personal growth you throw my way (so much for my candidacy for Supreme Leader of Misanthropes).  ;-)

Edited July 21, 2017 by walnutqueen

[ennui]

What is this "personal growth" of which you speak? Does it include watching reruns of High Chaparral?

[BookWoman56]

On 7/18/2017 at 1:08 AM, BookWoman56 said:

I had to walk away from my work laptop for a while today so that I wouldn't send an email to someone and ask her WTF is wrong with her. ... I'm sorry, but you had two months to work on this document, during which time you wrote not one word for it, and now you're going to bitch that I can't read your mind to write up what you intend to do for the project? 

The saga continues. After having been blown off by this person I'm helping by writing a document that she has had 2 months to write yet she did not produce one word, I had to escalate to the project manager, and so today this person (aka Team Lead ABC) finally deigned to meet with me. And proceeded to be insulting, condescending, and full of herself, yet apparently thinks that 30 seconds at the end of the conversation buttering me up is going to offset all that.  A little context: Because several teams had to write similar documents to explain what they are doing, the project manager came up with a template so that the information is organized the same way in each document. The template also included a lot of text at the end, about 20 pages, of information that is the full-scale version of what will need to be there for the project as a whole. There is a note in the template from the author of that particular text, recommending to delete any info in that section that does not pertain to what the individual teams are doing.  The gist of the conversation is as follows:

• Team Lead ABC: You copied and pasted a lot of obsolete information into the document, and it's too much for me to have to read. I shouldn't have to read all this text, especially in this last section (the 20 pages that had the note from the original author to remove anything not relevant). (She is sharing her screen with the document showing.)
• Me: That text is all there because it was in the template.
• Team Lead ABC: Oh, no, it wasn't.
• Me: That is the text that the original author wrote and that the project manager put into the template.
• Team Lead ABC: Project manager wouldn't have sent out a template like that.
• Me: It's in the template. When I wrote the document for my own team, I went through and deleted what was not applicable. That's what needs to happen, but I didn't know which part of this was not applicable to what you're doing.
• Team Lead ABC: But you pasted all that text into the document along with other obsolete text in other sections. (Note, the other obsolete text she is referring to is text she herself provided me that one of her team had written.) Also, the way the document is organized is not good. If my high school daughter had submitted this, I would have told her to redo it. There's too much text; this should have been a PPT instead of a Word document.  Also, you should have just used the graphics (from a PPT she had not sent me, and which was full of typos), so there wouldn't need to be that much text.
• Me: Can I share my screen for a minute? (I share screen showing the original template, and scroll through the 20 pages of text at the end.)  This is the template, and all this text was in the template. You just need to delete what's not relevant.
• Team Lead ABC: It's too much work for me to delete it. And also, here's this other section that is not applicable to what my team is doing.
• Me: Yes, and there's my comment that I don't think this part pertains to what you're doing, but want you to confirm, and if it doesn't pertain, then we can delete it.
• Team Lead ABC: I shouldn't have to read comments. 
• Me: Also, even if we add in the graphics, we have to have explanatory text, because this is eventually going into the document that gets sent to the regulators, and the regulators will want more than just graphics.

Lather, rinse, repeat for 20 more minutes.

• Team Lead ABC: Oh, thanks for all your help and I'm sure once you have reworked it, it will be beautiful.

I have never come so close to telling someone to FOAD during a business conversation as I did while this was going on. 

Edited July 22, 2017 by BookWoman56

[MrSmith]

@BookWoman56 I would probably have gotten at least a little snippy/short with her. I don't play very well with others when they're coming at me with accusations of something I didn't do - especially when it's something as stupid as this. I'm hoping you won't be the one doing the "reworking", however. That really deserves to fall on this woman and her "team" (where "team" is defined as "collection of apparently random idiots with a poorly defined shared goal").

[BookWoman56]

I tried to keep my tone professional, although there were a few times when I was a bit short with her as she was rambling along. Unfortunately, one way or another, I will be the one stuck with reworking it. I will ultimately be responsible for editing the huge document that will incorporate this piece as well as the piece I already wrote, plus a lot of other text.  I have found out that she has a reputation for being very difficult to work with, and she's been moved from one role to another several times over the past few years. That situation brings up one of my pet peeves, though: When it has become clear to everyone that person A is extremely difficult to work with, is frequently disruptive, and adds minimal value to any assigned projects, it's time to let person A go rather than spreading the misery around by transferring/redefining the role every 6 months. However, I will definitely talk to the project manager about what was said.  He had asked me to jump into working on this piece as a favor, and very bluntly, I plan to use doing so (plus a lot of other "rescue" projects I've been pulled into) as leverage for a promotion early next year.

But I swear at some point, I'm going to have a conversation with this person, where I point out to her exactly how insulting and nonproductive her communication style is, and ask her how that strategy is working for her, given that nobody wants to work with her any more. In all seriousness, there have been meetings in which the most important attendees have specifically requested that this person not be there, because of their issues with her.  Again, when it gets to that point, why not just get rid of the person and find someone else who has the same skill set but doesn't send everyone around him/her into a murderous rage?

[theredhead77]

Long story short -

I created process that has been sucessful for 60 people for the last 2.5 years. A new team started using this process, one person has a shitton of self created challenges. Her manager sits with her, I've offered to sit with her but all of a sudden she has no issues. This week she has a new self-created challenge, her boss has been on leave so her bosses boss has been asking me about it. I told her what I've offered to do and she agreed to wait until the regular manager is back next week to help the person. Yesterday the bosses boss goes to MY boss and creates a new process to accommodate the ONE person who has self-created challenges. This new process makes my life infinitely more difficult. I'm fucking livid, not because of the new process but because on Thurs she said wait until the normal manager is back and yesterday she circumvents me. Guess who is going to get zero assistance and everything redirected to my boss?

[MrSmith]

46 minutes ago, BookWoman56 said:

He had asked me to jump into working on this piece as a favor, and very bluntly, I plan to use doing so (plus a lot of other "rescue" projects I've been pulled into) as leverage for a promotion early next year.

Very nice! I hope you get it. It certainly sounds like you deserve it!

[BookWoman56]

10 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

Long story short -

I created process that has been sucessful for 60 people for the last 2.5 years. A new team started using this process, one person has a shitton of self created challenges. Her manager sits with her, I've offered to sit with her but all of a sudden she has no issues. This week she has a new self-created challenge, her boss has been on leave so her bosses boss has been asking me about it. I told her what I've offered to do and she agreed to wait until the regular manager is back next week to help the person. Yesterday the bosses boss goes to MY boss and creates a new process to accommodate the ONE person who has self-created challenges. This new process makes my life infinitely more difficult. I'm fucking livid, not because of the new process but because on Thurs she said wait until the normal manager is back and yesterday she circumvents me. Guess who is going to get zero assistance and everything redirected to my boss?

My guess, based not on your situation but on similar experiences, is that the person with self-created challenges was enough of a PITA to her boss's boss (after your initial conversation with the boss's boss) that the new process got created just to get self-created challenge person to shut up and quit bitching about it. That saying about the squeaky wheel getting the grease? There's a reason for that saying.  It's obviously stupid to create a new process because one person out of 60+ people can't do the existing process correctly. It would be different if there were a disability or other condition preventing this person from doing the process the way you created it, but that doesn't seem to be the case. 

[theredhead77]

1 hour ago, BookWoman56 said:

My guess, based not on your situation but on similar experiences, is that the person with self-created challenges was enough of a PITA to her boss's boss (after your initial conversation with the boss's boss) that the new process got created just to get self-created challenge person to shut up and quit bitching about it. That saying about the squeaky wheel getting the grease? There's a reason for that saying.  It's obviously stupid to create a new process because one person out of 60+ people can't do the existing process correctly. It would be different if there were a disability or other condition preventing this person from doing the process the way you created it, but that doesn't seem to be the case. 

Oh, I'm certain it's a power play. I have the emails to prove it. I have less than 20 days left in my current role so I'll still do my best work but instead of doing one iota of support / communication with that team I'll reach out to account managers when needed and direct everything else to my boss. The bosses boss doesn't think their team needs to follow up with their customers so in my mind there is no need to CC them on any emails with their customers or notify them when they submit bad info. My boss knows why I'm pissed and I straight up told him I would not be complying with this new process to placate this one person. Fuck that.

[hoosier80]

Before one primary person left our team about two years ago, the Dip made a big to do about how we did something, bitching to boss.  This is before he figured out that Dip knows how to do very little.  Anyhow, it was all going to be redone, and the person who eventually left was livid.  I was mad, but not to the point of being livid.  It was just because Dip didn't understand why we did it, fucked it up that it was addressed.  We both cornered Dip and said why did you say we need to redo it?  And what you said would work will cause us double the time to get shit done?  Ohhhh, I didn't know all that, I just thought it'd be better.  The person who left, who did like to gripe about everything, was like why does Dip open their damned mouth when they never do the work??  We stopped that one.  But so many times I've had to change a process because some idiot fucked up big time, not following the process or it was over their skill set to do something, so we all had to change a process that had worked for a good 5 years because of one moron.  Sometimes we've had a management change and of course whatever we had done prior was just wrong, so a new procedure had to go into place.

Not looking forward to this week.  Sinus infection doesn't want to go away, and there's shit I have to get done, plus this project from hell.  On the project from day 1 have been two know it alls - Asshat1 and Asshat 2.  They are equal opportunity asshats - make others feel like morons or lower than dirt at times, too.  My favorite - can you do this at 4?  I then find out they went to happy hour.  Not like I'd want to go out with them.  I have better ways of spending my time than listening to two blowhards.

I feel like I'm walking in a minefield with no minesweeping gear with this project.  Almost everyone else has been in meetings discussing shit from the jump - except me.  I'm just supposed to pick up and run with it.  I asked for the design docs for two items, only for Asshat1 to respond to all, oh it's our regular stuff, no design documents needed. It was like hey dumbass why are you asking for this, you are so stupid!!  So why are we reviewing if it's standard files then??  And everything has to be completed like yesterday, and Asshat1 is big on charts and graphs and workbooks to track.  Multiple tracking sheets.  JFC, if I have one master I am working on, I don't need 6 other ones. 

Dip is on vacation, thank god.  Of course, left shit undone.   I had to spend time on some of the undone shit as it then became a hot item.  Yay.  But no Dip for a few days.  Double YAY.

[bilgistic]

I'm on leave. I 100% made the decision this weekend. I rushed through the finishing the online forms this morning. I saw the doctor this afternoon to discuss next steps.

My boss was PISSED. He tried to maintain a calm facade, but looked like a pressure cooker that was about to blow. He strong-armed me into telling him why I'm taking leave, which is none of his business, but there you go. Symptomatic of the issues at hand. I feel very guilty, but on another hand, I've tried a million times to make the situation better, and I can't. My health is suffering, so I need to step away.

I slept all weekend--I mean the entire day and night both days. I woke to feed the cat and myself a couple times, but that's it.

Now to cuddle with the cat, cool off (heat index of 97), try to not think about my guilt, and see what happens next...

Edited July 24, 2017 by bilgistic

[ABay]

Great news @bilgistic!

[auntlada]

Good for you, @bilgistic. You are forbidden to feel guilty. (I know that doesn't work, but you are forbidden nevertheless.)

[BookWoman56]

It really is none of his business why you are taking leave, @bilgistic. If your doctor wrote up the paperwork and HR accepted it, then your pseudo-boss has no right to ask you for details. He might be entitled, in the sense of work etiquette, to a very vague "I need to deal with some health issues," but beyond that, it's none of his business if you are working on your mental health, getting cosmetic surgery, or undergoing treatment for a bad back.  I'd be tempted to tell him that I'd become extremely allergic to toxic work environments, but that's just me. The important thing, though, is that you have some time to decompress and figure out what you want to do next.  Take a few days to just relax and savor the joy twice a day of it being rush hour traffic for your colleagues but not for you. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by BookWoman56

[Bastet]

Beyond whatever the relevant state laws are, FMLA and the ADA offer protections.  Both generally prohibit employers from asking workers why their medical leave is necessary (e.g. what the medical condition is necessitating the leave); there are some inquiries that can be made of the doctor attesting to the need for leave (as opposed to the employee) if it's been taken under FMLA, but the ADA leaves a pretty narrow window for inquiries into the nature of the disability.  "Never ask an employee about the diagnosis prompting the need for leave" is a basic rule all managers should follow; from there, they can consult HR/Legal on what further information/documentation may be okay to request from the doctor under the circumstances.  So, yet another example in which this guy is both a dickhead and an idiot.

As for guilt, those assholes have never spent one minute of their lives feeling guilty about the positions they've put you in.  And it wouldn't be an abdication of your work ethic/duty to not feel guilty about any difficulties prompted by your sudden and extended absence; your doctor put you out on leave because you are not healthy enough to go back to work right now.  Period.  Thus the situation wouldn't be your fault under any circumstances, and certainly isn't when THEY CAUSED the problem.

[theredhead77]

Good for you @bilgistic! Your boss was completely out of line by asking you why. Next time you meet with your doctor be sure to mention that and document any time your company (coworker or boss) attempt to contact you unless it's HR doing some sort of HR required follow-up when your leave is ending.

Focus on you and your kitty!

[bilgistic]

I feel like I'm slowly detoxing. I texted one of the few female brokers at work. I'm fairly close with her; I'd asked her several months ago to be a reference. She works with us fairly regularly and she's fantastic. She's probably in her mid-50s, I'd guess, and she doesn't take shit from the guys. In my text, I told her I was sorry I didn't have time to talk to her today. She told me to take the time I need and feel better. And I'm bawling.

When I am shown kindness like that, like you all show me, like our design firm director showed me today, like my divisional supervisor showed me today, I just fall apart. It's like I'm starved for it.

[MrSmith]

@bilgistic Don't let yourself feel guilty. There's nothing for which you should feel guilty. Did you get the work done that you could in the time you were in the office? Yes. That's where your responsibility for work ends. Let them fend for themselves a while and see just how valuable you are. Hopefully, when they see all the shit you do for them, they'll change their tune a bit. I know that's unlikely, but we can dream, can't we? Enjoy your time off, work on getting better. That's what's important right now. You deserve to feel like a valuable and valued human being. Hopefully, you know by now that we value you, even if the pricks you work with/for do not. Don't let the pricks of the world tell you who you are or that you aren't valuable. Put simply: they're wrong.

[emma675]

bilgistic, I'm thrilled you're on leave now and I hope you can recover from the hell you've been through! But make sure to document, document, document everything that went down in your meeting with your boss. He is not allowed to force you to answer questions about why you're on leave and that could be grounds for a lawsuit in the future, if it comes down to that.

I'm back at work today after a small vacation (I was out 3 days last week and Monday) and it's even worse than before I left. I thought a small break would be good for my mental state but it made me realize how absolutely miserable I am and how much I want out. I spent all of last night dreading going back this morning (and crying a little, but I also got some maybe bad news about my dog and her liver, so that could have contributed) and am just in a funk.

BookWoman56, are you the tech writer? If so, can I ask you questions about it in a PM?

Edited July 25, 2017 by emma675d

[AgentRXS]

Quote

I feel like I'm slowly detoxing. I texted one of the few female brokers at work. I'm fairly close with her; I'd asked her several months ago to be a reference. She works with us fairly regularly and she's fantastic. She's probably in her mid-50s, I'd guess, and she doesn't take shit from the guys. In my text, I told her I was sorry I didn't have time to talk to her today. She told me to take the time I need and feel better. And I'm bawling.

When I am shown kindness like that, like you all show me, like our design firm director showed me today, like my divisional supervisor showed me today, I just fall apart. It's like I'm starved for it.

I'm so glad you took the leave and are giving yourself time to heal! Don't feel guilty about anything---they are the ones that drove you to this state to begin with. Enjoy your rest!

[BookWoman56]

26 minutes ago, emma675 said:

BookWoman56, are you the tech writer? If so, can I ask you questions about it in a PM?

Yes, I'm a tech writer, and feel free to send me a PM with any questions.

[EighteenTwelve]

We have been working for the last two years on our self-study documents for accreditation.  The self-study consists of six standards we have to prove we're meeting.  Standard 2, which is the part my office deals with, has 40 sub-parts and is 250 pages long.  I have read this document all the way through and edited the hell out of it once a week since the first week of June, and now that it's finally going to the printer, I have no idea what to do with myself.  The longest of the other five standards is 40 pages, and the people writing it are complaining about how much work it was.

[BookWoman56]

@EighteenTwelve, I run into the same issue. I co-author and edit documents that are routinely 300-600 pages because they go to federal regulators, and yet right now I'm helping someone who is bitching and moaning about a freaking 25-page document.  In terms of what to do with yourself now your document is finished, I usually take a day or to to review emails or other stuff that I sent/received during the process, and write a debrief for myself of what worked well, what didn't work well, which other employees need to STFU about how overworked they are, etc.  Not sure if that's something you would want to do, but it helps me decompress from that type of major project so I can handle smaller projects. 

[potatoradio]

We have a new project manager. For a team of essentially three people plus a few "dotted line" reports and some warm bodies that occasionally answer questions. New PM already has commandeered a "coordinator" and an "assistant" because of the workload (which, I would venture to guess, would be substantially reduced if the director could simply tell pushy people with big egos and long ass titles, "no, we really can't do that").

I have a question for those familiar with the new flavor of project management: who in the bloody hell invented this torture called AGILE and where can I hunt them down and fry them by dropping a toaster in their bathtub? I no longer go to work. I go to kindergarten. We get our daily stand up where we all look at each other's tasks and who gets a gold star for completions. Then, our teacher holes up with the principal (director) for hours to further discuss how to approach the parking lot, the classification of tasks, the roles, the food, and, best, whether we all need goddamned training so that we can all understand how to collaborate on multitasking or some such bullshit.  I can only hope they are having a torrid affair. Nobody should get that lathered over work projects.

Here's an idea, dipshit, useless director: client asks for something. You assess like a reasonable person. You say yes or no. If yes, we do it. If no, we don't. If yes, you leave us the fuck alone and let us do the actual work and stop insisting that we need to build our team via incessant cross pollination. I am not a bee. I don't pollinate. I don't want a gold star or a cookie. I am not here to necessarily make friends. I am here for a paycheck and no, I will not be wearing more than the requisite amount of flair. 

And no, I am not going to wax poetic about how much we're getting done because...um...we're not. We're just getting better at bullshitting about it. 

Also: dear relentlessly bubbly coworker who believes no moment at work should be without giggles and pranks and fun and small talk. Please stop with the efforts to get me to "join" instead of "holing up by [myself]". If I have headphones on and am glaring at my screen as I type, maybe, just maybe, I don't feel like joining in on your babbling about how much you love guinea pigs and no, I don't want to look at pictures of them on your phone and yes, I do want to hurt you after about five minutes. So, no, you don't want me to join. Trust me. I am sorry it pains you to see someone sitting at a desk absorbed in something other than pleasant talk at the office, but there's help for that and plenty of coworkers who will join you, so leave me out of it or risk a major thunderclap on your little cheery parade. I'm gonna come out ranting about politics and stupid clients  and I may even throw in religion and abortion if pushed too far....

[BookWoman56]

@potatoradio, oh, the irony. Back years ago when various idiots were pushing using AGILE for instructional design (and project mgmt), they were trying to convince everybody that AGILE would make the work so much faster, easier, and less stressful. No need for making detailed plans. Just collaborate every day and roll out what you can as it gets finished. Without exception, every AGILE project I have ever gotten close to has been a giant clusterfuck of chaos, with people going off on their own tangents because there is no overarching plan. Also, halfway through the project, people figure out that what they came up with already on the fly isn't going to work because they completely forgot about X, Y, and Z, because ... lack of planning.  And the requisite touchy-feeliness of meeting every day to set the daily priorities, review what got finished and what didn't, etc.? Here's a radical idea: quit having so many fucking pointless meetings and let people actually do their damn work. 

I also feel you on the relentlessly bubbly coworker. One of the many reasons I work from home now is that bubbly, perky social butterflies make me very stabby. 

[potatoradio]

Quote

Without exception, every AGILE project I have ever gotten close to has been a giant clusterfuck of chaos, with people going off on their own tangents because there is no overarching plan.

Yep! That's it! We don't need no stinkin' documentation or plans. Those take time. Better for everyone to be everything at any time. It's an absolute anathema to an introverted person like me who values depth over breadth and who sees a lot of value in having, oh, I  dunno, RECORDS of things. I don't get how you're supposed to see the forest for the trees with this bullshit, which seems to me a real project killer, but hey, I'm no scrum master. 

However, this morning, our director said he was out of office for a few days and project manager said, "and he said I'm in charge! Did everyone hear that." And I said, "I heard we're all AGILE and can be everything, every day. So, we're all in charge now." 

Earned me a nice, scornful look and probably a "bad" sticker somewhere in my permanent record.

[Hanahope]

Well my easy going boss has been out on medical leave since June and it looks like he won't be back until maybe November, if he comes back.  So I've had to work under his partner, who is much more Type-A workaholic and expects the associates under him to bill minimum 200 hours a month.  

Of His three associates, two men  have no kids, the one woman has 2, but also has her parents helping.  I have just my husband, who does help a lot, but he can't be in 2 places at once.  When I started at this firm, I negotiated with my boss for 180 hours a month and my 2 1/2 weeks vacation in the summer when we go to France to visit my husbands family (plus other days as needed) .  The other associates only take 1 week at a time.

I don't know the other associates salary, but 2 of them (including the other woman) had other job offers over the last 2 years, but negotiated to stay, so I know they got more money.  I haven't gotten a raise in 4 years.  I don't complain about it to my boss, I have other 'compensation.'

since my boss has been out, I've worked my butt off , handling his cases with  the other partner supervising and needing to be kept updated and n every little thing,  billing over 200 hours each month so far.  It was easy on the one hand because my kids are staying with the grandparents this summer.  But hard on the other because I suffered acute lumbar strain and sciatica at the end of June.  Sitting for more than an hour at a time is still very hard, but I have gone into the office most days even in a lot of pain. To my knowledge, he has no complaints with my work, but he doesn't like it when I need an occasional  15-30 minutes to rest my back on my boss's sofa.  

my concern is when the kids are back home and school and sports start.  My husband can't drive both kids in opposite directions near the same time. I have to help (unfortunately no one on my oldest daughters Y swim team lives near us, as its 45 minutes away, but it's the closest swim team to us for her age). 

I'm hoping the other partner will not complain about the two days a week I leave early, but I won't be happy if I have to work more than I bargained for and give up my negotiated time off. I've had a good 9 years here, I really don't want to job hunt again, since I know my situation is rare. 

[bilgistic]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

Well my easy going boss has been out on medical leave since June and it looks like he won't be back until maybe November, if he comes back.  So I've had to work under his partner, who is much more Type-A workaholic and expects the associates under him to bill minimum 200 hours a month.  

Of His three associates, two men  have no kids, the one woman has 2, but also has her parents helping.  I have just my husband, who does help a lot, but he can't be in 2 places at once.  When I started at this firm, I negotiated with my boss for 180 hours a month and my 2 1/2 weeks vacation in the summer when we go to France to visit my husbands family (plus other days as needed) .  The other associates only take 1 week at a time.

I don't know the other associates salary, but 2 of them (including the other woman) had other job offers over the last 2 years, but negotiated to stay, so I know they got more money.  I haven't gotten a raise in 4 years.  I don't complain about it to my boss, I have other 'compensation.'

since my boss has been out, I've worked my butt off , handling his cases with  the other partner supervising and needing to be kept updated and n every little thing,  billing over 200 hours each month so far.  It was easy on the one hand because my kids are staying with the grandparents this summer.  But hard on the other because I suffered acute lumbar strain and sciatica at the end of June.  Sitting for more than an hour at a time is still very hard, but I have gone into the office most days even in a lot of pain. To my knowledge, he has no complaints with my work, but he doesn't like it when I need an occasional  15-30 minutes to rest my back on my boss's sofa.  

my concern is when the kids are back home and school and sports start.  My husband can't drive both kids in opposite directions near the same time. I have to help (unfortunately no one on my oldest daughters Y swim team lives near us, as its 45 minutes away, but it's the closest swim team to us for her age). 

I'm hoping the other partner will not complain about the two days a week I leave early, but I won't be happy if I have to work more than I bargained for and give up my negotiated time off. I've had a good 9 years here, I really don't want to job hunt again, since I know my situation is rare. 

You're working 50-plus hours a week while in pain. You want to be able to take the vacation time to which you are entitled. You haven't had a raise in four years. This sounds familiar.

[ParadoxLost]

On ‎7‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 6:39 PM, BookWoman56 said:

 And the requisite touchy-feeliness of meeting every day to set the daily priorities, review what got finished and what didn't, etc.? Here's a radical idea: quit having so many fucking pointless meetings and let people actually do their damn work. 

I was once on a project that had as many people responsible for the planning and reporting out of the progress of the project as there were people like me doing the work.  I was literally doing everything from designing and testing software and reports to writing training manuals and recording demos.  They were killing me and generally pissing me off by having meetings constantly to come up with project plans and explanations on why the timeline was slipping without pointing at the eight hours a day of project meetings as the cause.

Not only that but we had to travel to another site across the country 50% of the month to "collaborate" better.  I finally got fed up and told them (including my boss) that they had one last chance.  I was going on one last trip and if I didn't spend the majority of the time with the technical team (who was located at the other site and I never got to see while there) doing actual work then I wasn't travelling any more and I wasn't going to any more of their meetings because I had work to get done. 

That fixed it.  I don't actually think I spoke to my former boss much at all after that,  He got updates from the project manager that sat next to me who was pretty good at keeping up with what was going on without being a giant time suck on those doing the work.   I shared this former boss with another person not involved in the project and he told me that he thought our boss was scared of me.  

I don't find myself that intimidating :P  And thinking back on that, I'm wondering if I was more diplomatic about it than I made it sound but I was really stressed out back then so I doubt it.  So, probably no ultimatum unless you are indispensable which I was at that particular time and generally have a better reputation for getting things done than your boss which I did.

That particular case of I have no f#$@ left to give aside, I do think people generally are too cautious about speaking up when things are going wrong.  I say that just based on the number of times I've done it.  Often without realizing it.   And more diplomatically and constructively (I hope).  More often than not though, someone in power will take up the cause and work towards addressing it.  Although it is a little disconcerting when a VP starts referring to something as "the email" and everyone knows what he means and you realize you wrote it.  Whoops.

Although I will add that I think one of the major red flags at a job is if no one in any kind of managerial role is flexible about vacation or work hours.  If managers aren't respectful of needing to rest and take care of personal issues sometimes when the work is getting done then keep your head down until you find something else.  I've been lucky in that one respect that the only people who act like horrible bosses have a reputation that discounts their opinions so they don't do much damage and I've never worked directly for them.

[Mindthinkr]

On 7/24/2017 at 10:11 PM, theredhead77 said:

Focus on you and your kitty!

@bilgistic That was some good advice! 

[theredhead77]

The chatterbox has returned from her 9 month medical leave. Apparently there is some "drama" surrounding her return and I'm fairly certain she's also on a performance plan that was residual from before she went on leave (I know this because she was talking about this) Yesterday was great, she worked, wasn't on the phone, etc... Today our boss left for an afternoon meeting and she's been spending the afternoon on personal calls.

I have 13 days left.

[ParadoxLost]

I don't like rail roads.

[riley702]

Hanahope, does this boss know what you negotiated for? Because that is what your job is. Not what he thinks it should be.

[theredhead77]

Apparently HR dropped the ball when it comes to chatterbox. Their job was  absorbed into other roles after our acquisition and there is no work in her old role. So HR wants my boss to put her in my role after I leave (we don't do remotely close to the same thing) without interviewing or going through the application process instead of hiring one of the two very qualified external candidates. My boss told the recruiter to make an offer to the one he liked the best in an attempt to get them on boarded before I leave so he can train while I hold down the fort.

To be continued....

[bilgistic]

My spies tell me there is total chaos in my absence--in four days. I guess we don't know how to do my job after all, do we?

[theredhead77]

35 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

My spies tell me there is total chaos in my absence--in four days. I guess we don't know how to do my job after all, do we?

Isn't that a great feeling? Go, be free, get healthy! Not your problem!