Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

[statsgirl]

The thing is, they could have changed it when they saw how upset people were. They could even have changed it at the last minute by adding an extra chair for Emily.

 

But they chose not to, so all the denials and protestations about social media means nothing.

[Chiny11]

That answer makes no sense. Diggle was there, rendering that reasoning invalid. And you would have brought Cupid or Huntress before Felicity, Caitlin, Iris, or Thea? That's...I just...why...

Unfortunately I think he just made up that response. Sad really.

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

From the little I've seen giving a synopsis of the panel.

A) you want a mature audience, you need mature writers. The mature members of your cast are throwing shade your way at the show. They are thinking and voicing what your mature audience feels.

B) Laurel's BC arc and Ray's Atom arc won't make up for Oliver's absence.

C) Oliver's death couldn't be a more idiotic story line. The show is called Arrow. Oliver doesn't have a sufficient sidekick to carry his mantle. Therefore why pretend like you killed him? We all know you don't have the balls.

D) Shame on TPTB for not realizing Laurel is a failure and adjusting their trajectory. They don't have balls for sticking with her. They have narrow vision.

[tv echo]

Berlanti also misses the point that the (original) title of the panel was "Heroes and Villains of Arrow and Flash", so by implication he's saying either that you do have to wear a costume to be a hero or villain, or that the costumed heroes/villains are more important than the non-costumed ones.

Edited January 11, 2015 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

That answer makes no sense. Diggle was there, rendering that reasoning invalid. And you would have brought Cupid or Huntress before Felicity, Caitlin, Iris, or Thea? That's...I just...why...

 

I wonder if Diggle is going to get a costume soon. Both SA and DR have hinted at it.

 

But even if Felicity or Caitlin don't wear a costume (and IMO they do), how about Nyssa?  Like Malcolm, she wear the LoA garb.

[jay741982]

Maybe I don't get it but Berlanti did not say he's surprised Felicity and Caitlin are popular he said he should've brought them in hindsight

[Carrie Ann]

Maybe I don't get it but Berlanti did not say he's surprised Felicity and Caitlin are popular he said he should've brought them in hindsight

 

That's my point--it's hindsight. Why? Why wouldn't you immediately assume you would bring your female cast members? Why wouldn't you try to bring as many of your series regulars as possible? Instead, they're trying to put this exciting panel together, and they just don't consider their female cast members until after the fact. Why? Because it's not their default way of thinking, that women are interesting on their own, even if they're not in a costume. Even in hindsight, as others have pointed out, he didn't even go with the obvious person--Nyssa. Because he still hasn't given it enough thought.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[statsgirl]

It's not only that they didn't think their female characters are interesting, when they found out that people were upset about the make-up of the panel, they still didn't put more women on.

 

Apparently fans don't matter unless the ratings drop, and now that they've been renewed, not even then.

[Happy Harpy]

I love Helena (stone me with cannolis) but I'm aware that she was a fan non-favorite and she's been MIA since 2-19.

Cupid? I wouldn't call her a fan favorite either, if I compare her to Donna Smoak or Sin...some people asked for shadow Harley Quinn back and not Cupid, unless I'm mistaken.

So why bring them out, instead of Caitlin, Iris, Thea and Felicity? Why not the four most important -in status or airtime- women on those two shows, instead of guest characters?

 

Honestly, what's the deal here? It's so incredibly weird.

[jay741982]

Carrie Ann I don't know how to Quote you but I agree with you

[calliope1975]

That answer makes no sense. Diggle was there, rendering that reasoning invalid. And you would have brought Cupid or Huntress before Felicity, Caitlin, Iris, or Thea? That's...I just...why...

 

I'm sorry, I'm going to keep going on this: "It was a mistake to not have more women there, particularly given how much interest there is in characters like Felicity and Caitlin." How is it still a surprise that female characters are popular? How is it still a surprise that when you have an underrepresented population, the few characters who represent those populations will receive above-average interest? Why don't you want to show off your female characters and actors? Your very few actors of color?

 

Okay, I have to step away from the computer before I get even crabbier about this.

 

I'm in total agreement, and I don't think I'm going to get over this. Even realizing they made a mistake, their first thought was to add two women guest stars, one who was hasn't been on this show in ages? WTF? They can backtrack and say that's not what they really meant, but that's how they decided to promote their shows. I'm so bummed. (And even more mad at myself that I'm bummed about this stupid show.)

[KirkB]

He would have been better off just saying "oops" and moving on to another question. The answer he gave is...well, ridiculous doesn't really seem to be a big enough word. They were trying to decide which actors to bring. They just happened to pick guy, guy, guy, guy, guy, guy, and I guess Katie snuck on the plane while they weren't looking. Or else they let her pick. Look, I understand why they brought some of the people they did. Laurel is about to have a major story arc. Some of the guest stars who haven't been on the show yet are about to be and they want to spotlight them. But there is no way Ronnie's story doesn't have a lot of focus on Caitlin as well. The new excuse, where somebody came up with the bright idea of changing the panel name, is that we only brought guys (and one girl) who wear costumes but then they go and put Diggle out there. No one would question Diggle is a hero but he doesn't wear a costume, so what gives? Simple answer. They were far more afraid of the response they would get from leaving off the major POC on their shows than the female audience. Which is stupid. This whole thing has pretty much turned into a PR nightmare because everyone is talking about what they didn't do and not what was said, not that anything of consequence was actually said by anyone anyway.

[TwistedandBored]

I guess since comic books have more male superheroes and villains that are white than females that they didn't even notice they were messing up. Soo focused on appealing to young comic male fans that they forgot about their own TV based fans which is mixed gender and demands the same in their shows. 

 

I don't even know if I am making sense but that is what I got from it. I mean really Detective Joe West is more of a hero in The Flash then any of those guys that were there from the show but I guess one black token guy would do. 

[calliope1975]

I guess since comic books have more male superheroes and villains that are white than females that they didn't even notice they were messing up. Soo focused on appealing to young comic male fans that they forgot about their own TV based fans which is mixed gender and demands the same in their shows. 

 

It's even more annoying because almost 47% of comic book readers are women! Like video games, this idea that women don't read or play is only hurting the industry. I'm down to about 4 or 5 books a months (none of them are DC) and there's lots of women at my local comic store. 

[AnyoneButYou]

Well, I just saw a bunch of the CW's "more male" demographic tweet "Where are the girls?" and "so many white dudes." So, I'm guessing they're not exactly satisfied by the network trying to appeal to them.

[BumpSetSpike]

I wonder if SA really enjoys the direction that Arrow is going with all of this (the Arrow storylines and TPTB focus' on bringing on other characters for possible new shows) or if he just puts on a happy face because it is his show and he has no choice.   

Edited January 11, 2015 by BumpSetSpike

[TwistedandBored]

It's even more annoying because almost 47% of comic book readers are women! Like video games, this idea that women don't read or play is only hurting the industry. I'm down to about 4 or 5 books a months (none of them are DC) and there's lots of women at my local comic store. 

 

The data might state that but I don't think it would change the industries perception of who reads comic books and plays video games. Even commercials for pepsi and stuff, it always shows the guys are the ones either talking about comics or playing video games. 

[JenMcSnark]

I tweeted a few times to TPTB to voice my displeasure.  It may be better to actually hit the network staff rather than reporters.  If anyone else wants to do the same, some of the pertinent accounts are:

 

@TheCW_PR

@CW_Network

@GBerlanti

@CW_Arrow

@CW_TheFlash

@MGuggenheim

@AJKreisberg

[quarks]

I feel what we've all learned from today is that the rumors that Time Warner and the CW just laid off their best PR people as part of their major layoffs last November may, in fact, be true.

[dtissagirl]

If they planned this misguided panel thinking about FANS, instead of the actual audience of social issues aware audience of TV critics they should be catering to, than yes, the CW PR department is the actual very worst of them all.

[Morrigan2575]

What I think is hysterical, if this was about getting the boys (18-34M) demo why didn't they bring Felicity/Emily? 305 had the highest 18-34M since Tremors (212). So 305 drew more young male viewers then the Villains a Go Go episodes of S2 which featured Clock King, Deathstroke, Suicide Squad, and Huntress...you know the costumed people. LOL

So stupid...but it's over with.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Orion]

It's not necessarily a bad thing for people to tweet at reporters either. Fans angry at EPs is nothing new. They get angry tweets daily but if you can involve the media in a controversy along the lines of Arrow's sexist panel, than a lot of times the journalist will pick up on that and start looking for it. The journalists are the only ones that can hold CW and the EPs feet to the fire and try to get some answers. Fandoms can be ignored but once the media turns on you than you have problems. That's just FYI for people upset and looking to take there anger to social media.

 

ETA: Beyond how stupid it is that they threw in the costumed heroes + Diggle line, it's seriously a problem that they have to pull up references to a character that has made 3 appearances and hasn't been around since S2X17 and another that was a one off villain. Arrow this more than anything should show you that you have a problem.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Orion

[jay741982]

He didn't look happy in that pic from the panel today

[Chaser]

Its ironic. The panel was supposed to build the buzz for the upcoming black canary / atom arc, but it seems to be doing the opposite. I'm seeing more negativity about the whole thing then I have before. And people seem to be focused on the lack of women on panel. EBR in particular. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

[BkWurm1]

Its ironic. The panel was supposed to build the buzz for the upcoming black canary / atom arc, but it seems to be doing the opposite. I'm seeing more negativity about the whole thing then I have before. And people seem to be focused on the lack of women on panel. EBR in particular. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

That and some pretty disheartening quotes about upcoming storylines. 

[statsgirl]

It just occurred to me, if KC is saying that Laurel becomes her sister, isn't that an acknowledgement that Sara was the better character?

 

Its ironic. The panel was supposed to build the buzz for the upcoming black canary / atom arc, but it seems to be doing the opposite. I'm seeing more negativity about the whole thing then I have before. 

 

I hope you're right that it's killed the buzz for the upcoming storylines (ironic that Colton H was one of only two people who didn't get asked a question), because they deserve all the flack they get.  Massive publicity fail, and so easily prevented if they had really paid attention to all the social media they profess to.

[Danny Franks]

Looking at the pictures from that panel, the exclusion of some people seems even more egregious and offensive. You have several guest stars there, who have made very limited impact in the shows they're on. You have a couple who have only appeared in two episodes.

 

There are five female regulars, across these two shows, and three recurring guest stars. Only one was chosen.

 

There is little doubt that it was deliberate, if you ask me. No way do you just not think of asking EBR and Candace Patton to attend, as the de facto female leads and love interests of their respective shows. Even Danielle Panabaker, I'd expect to be there. Willa? Maybe not, because the writers rarely seem to remember she exists anyway. But no, this was a deliberate choice to highlight Katie Cassidy and Laurel Lance at the expense of other characters. And it fucking stinks.

 

If I was still watching, I would be very scared as a fan of any woman on Arrow who isn't Laurel. Because most of these PR moves and tweets and spoilers strongly suggest a determination to put her character ahead of anyone else, particularly those who may draw attention away from her.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Danny Franks

[jay741982]

I've never seen or heard of a show so determined to shove a hated character down the fans throats it's mind boggling we hate her for a reason IIC

[calliope1975]

There is little doubt that it was deliberate, if you ask me. No way do you just not think of asking EBR and Candace Patton to attend, as the de facto female leads and love interests of their respective shows. Even Danielle Panabaker, I'd expect to be there. Willa? Maybe not, because the writers rarely seem to remember she exists anyway. But no, this was a deliberate choice to highlight Katie Cassidy and Laurel Lance at the expense of other characters. And it fucking stinks.

 

It seems deliberate to me as well. I realize that people make mistakes, don't look at the full picture, etc., but interns didn't put this panel together. The amount of interference by studio heads, lawyers, execs, etc. on every aspect of a TV show is notorious. This wasn't a Con or fan event. This was one of the few critic events shows attend for promotion. Such a massive fail. 

 

I am very envious that you've stopped watching, Danny Franks. I'm not quite there yet, and it does seem to be EBR that's making me unable to let go just yet. I suppose this next half will be what determines if I stop watching altogether. I'll definitely be checking out East Coasters reactions before viewing. 

[JenMcSnark]

It's not necessarily a bad thing for people to tweet at reporters either. Fans angry at EPs is nothing new. They get angry tweets daily but if you can involve the media in a controversy along the lines of Arrow's sexist panel, than a lot of times the journalist will pick up on that and start looking for it. The journalists are the only ones that can hold CW and the EPs feet to the fire and try to get some answers. Fandoms can be ignored but once the media turns on you than you have problems. That's just FYI for people upset and looking to take there anger to social media.

 

That's a very good point as well, but I guess I see a lot of the media IMO kissing the showrunner's asses in order to keep getting stories, quotes, etc.   This isn't highly impartial journalism here...it's entertainment television and they want to get the stories and quotes that get their sites/accounts clicked.  And also, they might bring it up to the panel itself, but what are the actors supposed to say?

 

But when you start sending stuff to the PR people and the network accounts, you include a larger demographic of responsible people than just Guggentroll, et al. 

[benteen]

It seems deliberate to me as well. I realize that people make mistakes, don't look at the full picture, etc., but interns didn't put this panel together. The amount of interference by studio heads, lawyers, execs, etc. on every aspect of a TV show is notorious. This wasn't a Con or fan event. This was one of the few critic events shows attend for promotion. Such a massive fail. 

 

I am very envious that you've stopped watching, Danny Franks. I'm not quite there yet, and it does seem to be EBR that's making me unable to let go just yet. I suppose this next half will be what determines if I stop watching altogether. I'll definitely be checking out East Coasters reactions before viewing. 

 

I agree it seemed deliberate.  Katie Cassidy is the actress who has made the least impact on the show so they likely wanted to highlight the whole Canary storyline.  Because the only other conclusion is that the EPs don't value the female characters are all.  Seriously, anyone setting up that panel could have realized they didn't have any of the actresses on it.  Having the Huntress and Cupid actresses would have been ridiculous too.

[Danny Franks]

I am very envious that you've stopped watching, Danny Franks. I'm not quite there yet, and it does seem to be EBR that's making me unable to let go just yet. I suppose this next half will be what determines if I stop watching altogether. I'll definitely be checking out East Coasters reactions before viewing. 

 

It's so much better. I stuck with Castle for way too long, and ended up hating nearly everything about it. The show was utterly unrecognisable from the show that I fell in love with originally. Every character was an awful caricature of the original, every actor was on auto pilot, the writing was dreadful, the showrunner unbearably smug and self-praising. Then one final, stupid plot development occurred ('Beckett was married the whole time! LOLZ!') and I just said, 'nope. Not watching any more.' Best decision ever.

 

I feel similarly happy about my decision to cut Arrow loose once I caught the whiff of rot setting in.

 

And man, I really hope that the media catch on to this rather obvious ploy to shove Cassidy front and centre, and reject it like so many fans have. It's shameful, and shows a complete lack of respect for the fans who would probably much rather hear from EBR or Patton than from Matt Nable or that bloated dude from Prison Break. And it also shows a lack of respect for the ladies themselves, that they aren't considered important enough to attend an event that all the guest stars able to swing a penis are invited to.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Danny Franks

[Velocity23]

 

KC at the golden globes ... guessing accompanying her 50 shades boyfriend-director.

[BkWurm1]

It's so much better. I stuck with Castle for way too long, and ended up hating nearly everything about it. The show was utterly unrecognisable from the show that I fell in love with originally. Every character was an awful caricature of the original, every actor was on auto pilot, the writing was dreadful, the showrunner unbearably smug and self-praising. Then one final, stupid plot development occurred ('Beckett was married the whole time! LOLZ!') and I just said, 'nope. Not watching any more.' Best decision ever.

 

Ha!  I did majorly roll my eyes at that "twist". Does no one actually know how Vegas marriages work?  It involves getting an actual marriage license at another location before showing up at the Little Chapel of Love.  No one doing it could actually think it wasn't real.  That said, I thought the episode was kind of hilarious and liked it even better the second time I caught it.  I was more annoyed with the wedding delay and this season's fallout but this too shall pass.  I still like the characters on Castle and there was never a question about the end game.  I think that is what allows me to move past missteps. 

 

Arrow on the other hand just puts me through the wringer.  I'm still holding on to hope, but it's not easy.  The thing is, I'm too invested to walk away now.  It will take something drastic and very permanent looking to make me go. 

 

And even then I might have to tune in so I can do a major fan fic fix, lol. 

 

FYI, KC must have a long day.  She looks tired. 

Edited January 12, 2015 by BkWurm1

[foreverevolving]

Ohh i saw her live on TV(NBC) when she walking the red carpet... And all i could think was: that is one gorgeous dress even with the very long slit and that she really doesn't do that dress any justice, great dress but wrong hair and make-up which made the entire look appear cheap...also she looks unnaturally tanned, which doesn't help.

Anyone know if any other stars from the show are due to attend the GG?

[jay741982]

Ill say it KC doesn't look good there it's tiring getting stuff handed to you on a show that your character don't deserve

[statsgirl]

Greg Berlanti takes responsibility 

“We should’ve had more women up here today. That’s on me,” Berlanti told TheWrap and several outlets after the panel concluded. “That’s my fault.”...“We put the list together and it was very much about costumes in the lobby, I think, or else people like Jesse Martin would be here and Emily [bett Rickards] would be here,” Berlanti continued. “But that’s on me. That’s my fault.”

   

“I wasn’t in charge of invitations for this panel,” Kreisberg joked. “We’re blessed, we have so many great female superheroes and villains. We have Caity Lotz, the original Canary, Katrina Law [as Nyssa], we have Rila Fukushima who plays Tatsu, who will become Katana before the end of the season.”

“No comment on the fact that there were so many men here, but we really have the greatest, smartest, most kickass female superheroes of any show that’s out there,” he continued. “They really stand toe-to-toe with anybody. We don’t think about them in terms of ‘well, she’s a girl.’ It’s always, ‘Can you do it?'”

 

The article goes on to talk about diversity and that while David Ramsey was the only black panelist, there were three gay white guys (plus Berlanti).  (Me: they're not gay on the show so does that really count?)

Edited January 12, 2015 by statsgirl

[Chaser]

That explanation is swiss cheese. Or did I miss David's costume? They totally have some kick ass female superheroes unfortunately the one that was invited has not put on the costume yet and is supposedly a pretty sucky fighter.

[Chiny11]

This is mostly CW-related news.

CW got their first big award win today (from their first big award nomination)

The girl from Jane The Virgin just won a golden globe award.

I guess CW will be partying tonight. This is huge for them.

CBS must be proud.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Chiny11

[BkWurm1]

Lol, I'm behind on the Golden Globes by about an hour (if you watching it on the DVR and start late then you can skip commercials) Looking forward to seeing this.  I'm so pleased for the actress and the show.  It really deserves a second look from everyone. 

Edited January 12, 2015 by BkWurm1

[jay741982]

Yay for Gina! Yay for the CW and Jane the Virgin!

[AnyoneButYou]

Did they put a ski mask and leather bomber jacket on display for Diggle? I don't get it. They absolutely should've put EBR on the panel if they invited DR.

[foreverevolving]

Oh wow!!

That's really amazing news for CW- a win like this (if they can recreate it for the Emmy) is almost a sure win for the Affiliates not dropping the station. Now maybe we can hope for best stunt team nomination at the Emmy, and a couple of acting noms for some of the cast at future GG.

BkWurm1 I'm late on the Golden Globes too, apparently the NBC live stream doesn't work on iPads and online live streams tend to be via flash (which doesn't work on an iPad). So annoying!

[Morrigan2575]

Worst Dress list from tvline...KC made the list. Some of those dresses were awful...what were they thinking?

http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/golden_globes_2015_worst_dressed_keira_knightley_rosamund_pike_tina_fey-2015-01

[apinknightmare]

Worst Dress list from tvline...KC made the list. Some of those dresses were awful...what were they thinking?

http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/golden_globes_2015_worst_dressed_keira_knightley_rosamund_pike_tina_fey-2015-01

 

I actually don't think KC's is that bad compared to the rest. Yikes.

[Starfish35]

I'm not getting where they're getting "Black Canary couture" from, but lol at KC doing the Angelina Jolie leg pose.

[GirlWednesday]

Yeah agree with the list. that is not a flattering dress. Kinda surprised. Isn't she a huge Blake lively wannabe fashionista type?

[Starfish35]

Honestly I don't think the dress is that bad, personally. I've seen worse. I've seen her in worse. I could do without the side looking like it'd been slashed by a giant cat, but I have to agree with apinknightmare that it's not as bad as most of the rest of the dresses in that list.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Starfish35

[Morrigan2575]

I actually don't think KC's is that bad compared to the rest. Yikes.

Oh no, I was talking about the others. I didn't actually think her dress was bad.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[BkWurm1]

I actually don't hate the dress Melissa MaCartny (I know I am butchering her last name) is wearing.  Its' very different but the more I looked at it, the more I thought it looked good.