Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

[Guest]

I agree that no actress should receive hate but I must've missed something because I didn't see anything that could be classed as hateful tbh. There were tweets saying "No thanks!" to Oliver/Susan and some references to Olicity and even some saying "Welcome to Arrow but we hope Olicity get back together." I know some people used gifs to express their opinion too, but none I would ever class as abuse. 

Curious.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Guest

[LeighAn]

In no reply to any tweet she has posted has anyone been directly rude to her or said anything atacking or derogatory so the whole "Dear shippers leave me be" seems a little unnecessary and like she is overly defensive and wanting to jump on the poor me evil shipper band wagon.  Unless she is reacting to general dislike for her character which Im sorry not liking the character is not related to attacking the actress. Any actress or actor with any knowledge of how tv fandoms works must expect that when they are the cock blocker to a popular and beloved ship their character is not going to be liked and most actors and actresses readily accept that without playing victim.

[catrox14]

23 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

@catrox14 may know better but, I think this is the first time this season they ran an Arrow ad during SPN.

I think you might be right. I can't quite recall though .But that seems correct to me.

[lemotomato]

Interesting considering the timing and the fact that EBR doesn't follow Carly Pope. The off-screen stuff is starting to be more fun to speculate about than what's on screen.

[calliope1975]

I don't believe in conspiracy theories or anything, but I chucked when I saw that exchange seemingly out of nowhere. 

[Chaser]

I wouldn't consider it a conspiracy, just PR. The timing of it, the Q&A tweet (seriously EBR that was weak) and the fact that neither was following each other before. EBR isn't even returning CPs follow and she was the one who initiated the interaction. 

Everything says PR.

[Guest]

Haha, I don't know whether it's sad or hilarious that they're even pulling EBR into this when usually she only tweets about unicorn dreams or some other stuff I don't understand. LOL. 

[statsgirl]

They always pull her in when they want the audience to like a character.'

On 2016-11-03 at 0:14 PM, Sunshine said:

Last couple of thoughts on the subject.  MG told jbuffyangel a couple of things. 1. There would be a difficult moment for shippers in 5.01.  2.  5.05 would provide clarity (It did for Oliver at least).

 

505 provided clarity for me.  I'm now certain that I don't want to watch while Oliver and Felicity date other people.

On 2016-11-03 at 1:54 PM, dtissagirl said:

I just had a fun experience with extreme cockblocking. I binged 9 seasons of Murdoch Mysteries in the past couple of months, and the single reason I was able to keep going amidst some of THE MOST RIDICULOUS SHIP STALLING I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE is because I was spoiled, so I knew the main couple would eventually get together and stay together. I was vaguely interested in other stuff going on in the show, but I know in my bones I would have quit in S4 when the main lady got engaged to a rando had I been watching week to week.

We stopped watching in season 5 and didn't return until the season they got together.  And unlike Arrow, it's a show where I like all the supporting cast.

[ohjoy]

34 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

505 provided clarity for me.  I'm now certain that I don't want to watch while Oliver and Felicity date other people.

If that's the clarity they were going for, then bravo and brava. Mission accomplished.

[Mellowyellow]

56 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

They always pull her in when they want the audience to like a character.'

I wonder if she gets a call to the affect of "Zzz is not well received. You need to pretend to be friends her/him on social media."

[tv echo]

Why?...

[Ophanim]

27 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Why?...

I have not so good opinion about writers right now, so silence it is. But.... just one thing, Arrow doesn't deserve character of Felicity Smoak. 

[Chaser]

The dog photo is super cute.

I'm at that stage where I find the bts stuff pretty darn entertaining. Looking at the twitter exchange between EBR and CP, I'm reading (projecting whatever) some shade from EBR and it cracks me up. I wouldn't even say its directed at CP, but at the PR bit of it. "Oh you want me to extend an olive branch for the fans? Sure, here's a tweet that sounds like an interview question out of KC's blog and no I'm not going to follow her or respond further because everyone needs to know how fake this it."

As for the Arrow Writers....hahaha. Olicity fandom is pissed and loud so they have a GA and BC Fanart Friday and joke about Olicity double dating with the Temps in the future. I can't with these guys. LOL

Edited November 5, 2016 by Chaser

[kes0704]

Oh no, another Arrow writer is responding to fans and, once again, the criticism is tied to "shipping" and dismissed.  I wish they would take the time to read people's valid concerns and assess what might be wrong in the writing that they have to explain things on Twitter after an episode has aired.

Edited November 5, 2016 by kes0704

[Guest]

Just now, kes0704 said:

Oh no, another Arrow writer has started responding to fans and, once again, the criticism is tied to "shipping" and dismissed.  I wish they would take te time to read people's valid concerns and assess what might be wrong in the writing that they have to explain things on Twitter after an episode has aired.

There is nothing I hate more than writers (or anybody) dismissing valid concerns and criticism as nothing but shipper nonsense. RAGE. Don't ever tell fans how they feel or what they would/wouldn't care about.

Also, where was all this fight when they received actual death threats and abuse a few months ago? They were mute. Now people are criticizing their writing and suddenly they've grown a backbone? Hmm. If the writing on the show hadn't made me quit already, this BTS crap definitely would have.

[kes0704]

They might be braver in responding to, what they perceive to be, Olicity fans because they think shipping trumps story and character for those fans, which is not the case.  

I truly think the writers believe that all Olicity fans will stay the course as long as they offer up the smallest glimmer of hope that Oliver & Felicity will reunite at some point, even if it is the series finale. 

I haven't watched the last two episodes, and I can't say I've missed the show, and the dismissive attitude I've seen from BTS isn't enticing me to tune back in any time soon.

Edited November 5, 2016 by kes0704

[Carrie Ann]

Shipping part aside, I think it's kind of hilarious that she basically just reaffirmed the OP's point. Of course no one should "owe" anyone sex ever, but only one gender has been historically oppressed via sex, so yeah, I probably wouldn't care if Malone were saying it (except I would because *vomit*) because it wouldn't carry the same icky overtones??? It's almost impressive the way this tweet hits a sexist trifecta--the original line, the blindness to the difference between a woman or man saying the line, and the sneer at shippers. 

All these people need to stop talking.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[lemotomato]

Nothing makes me rage more quickly than starting a sentence with "You wouldn't care if..." Defend your point, but don't presume to know how I would react to a hypothetical situation that didn't happen. If they're just going to deflect and ignore the issue being addressed they might as well not engage at all. 

[calliope1975]

Can these writers get back to writing? Is there now a network mandate to post inflammatory tweets and watch the drama unfold?

Based on nothing, I suspect the ratings will level out at whatever they've been so far, .6ish?, and TIIC will pat themselves on the back because they think they're awesome. I don't even know if lower ratings will matter. I think this season is plotted out and almost 1/2 has been filmed, and we're stuck with what we've got. I'm out for the foreseeable future, and it seems like others may be making that same decision for themselves. I don't know what the bitchy comments on social media are going to get them. They may as well all tweet "Fuck shippers. You all suck. I do what I want," and be done with it. 

This was all slightly overdramatic but you see where my head is right now with all this. 

Edited November 5, 2016 by calliope1975

[Mellowyellow]

Anyone thinking that the bitchy social media comments is another reason to think that Olicity really is over?

I think if they are so happy to burn bridges because maybe they know that part of the audience is not going to watch in the future anyway. 

Otherwise why alienate fans who they hope might stick around.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Anyone thinking that the bitchy social media comments is another reason to think that Olicity really is over?

Nope. It's just thin-skinned creative types being whiny and defensive over their work being criticized. Happens all the time. 

[arjumand]

33 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

Shipping part aside, I think it's kind of hilarious that she basically just reaffirmed the OP's point. Of course no one should "owe" anyone sex ever, but only one gender has been historically oppressed via sex, so yeah, I probably wouldn't care if Malone were saying it (except I would because *vomit*) because it wouldn't carry the same icky overtones??? It's almost impressive the way this tweet hits a sexist trifecta--the original line, the blindness to the difference between a woman or man saying the line, and the sneer at shippers. 

All these people need to stop talking.

 

TO THE ARROW WRITERS ETC:

 

I know, I know - Old Meme. But seriously - if these writers spent less time lashing out on twitter and more on giving scripts a second and third pass, we wouldn't have had the crazy continuity fuck-ups which we as Arrow fans know and love hate (now with added racism and sexism!)

And the whole sexist problem - writers who see no problem in erasing a little girl and putting a little boy in her place (and can't see how that's really, really fucked up) are not going to get such "subtle" "nuance".

Edited November 5, 2016 by arjumand

[dtissagirl]

1 hour ago, Carrie Ann said:

Shipping part aside, I think it's kind of hilarious that she basically just reaffirmed the OP's point. Of course no one should "owe" anyone sex ever, but only one gender has been historically oppressed via sex, so yeah, I probably wouldn't care if Malone were saying it (except I would because *vomit*) because it wouldn't carry the same icky overtones??? It's almost impressive the way this tweet hits a sexist trifecta--the original line, the blindness to the difference between a woman or man saying the line, and the sneer at shippers. 

All these people need to stop talking.

*applause*

And if we put 'shipping back on the table, isn't it funny how we're still able to understand super complex topics like internalized misogyny and oppression, and clearly see this as an example of how female representation on television often fails to invert the problematic tropes that perpetuate said topics, all without our 'shipper brains imploding? Who woulda thunk!

[lemotomato]

2 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Also, where was all this fight when they received actual death threats and abuse a few months ago? They were mute. Now people are criticizing their writing and suddenly they've grown a backbone? Hmm. If the writing on the show hadn't made me quit already, this BTS crap definitely would have.

I think that they were prepared for the backlash they were going to get for killing BC. Plus there isn't really anything they could say against personal threats and attacks aside from "Hey, not cool, please stop." I think the writers genuinely didn't realize that their treatment of Felicity and Olicity would be so poorly received by her fans. Sarah Tarkoff's followup tweet was something like "We love Felicity! We're excited about what we planned for her!" They think they're doing a great job, so when their abilities are questioned, they lash out. 

1 hour ago, arjumand said:

TO THE ARROW WRITERS ETC:

 

This made me lol; thanks for sharing it :D

[Thundercatmary]

With the writers talking about their process etc I would like to know who's idea it was for BMD, not just to bring the kid back but for Oliver to lie and to use that to split up Oliver and Felicity.

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, Thundercatmary said:

With the writers talking about their process etc I would like to know who's idea it was for BMD, not just to bring the kid back but for Oliver to lie and to use that to split up Oliver and Felicity.

I'm gonna guess Guggie, just from his defensiveness on Twitter when everybody and their mother called that story line stupid.

Edited November 6, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva
To clarify MG's reaction

[BkWurm1]

46 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I'm gonna guess Guggie, just from his defensiveness on Twitter when everybody and their mother called that story line stupid.

Absolutely MG.  I'm not a betting gal but I would lay my money on the line for that.  I have to think such a weak "reason" why Oliver "had" to lie to Felicity would have been shredded apart in the writer's room if anyone else pitched it.  And didn't MG actually pull out the as a father I know you would do anything for your children as if that was the actual issue? Just willfully blind.  

[looptab]

At this point I just wish the fans stopped engaging the writers - if I can't hope for the writers to STFU.

[tv echo]

[SmallScreenDiva]

All the writers should just stay off Twitter for a while. Because even when/if they are not addressing Arrow fans, fans who are so frustrated at this point will be making it about them and it will not end well.

[EmeraldArcher]

12 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I clicked on the link to the article in that tweet, and the header picture is of Oliver and Felicity's fake wedding--WTH? <insert eye roll>

[tv echo]

SA and RA did several facebook videos yesterday (talked mostly about Code 8 and signed a lot of postcards)...

Code 8 signing is happening!!

So many postcards... Code 8 signing with Robbie Amell.

SA: "Jeff, did you see a short called Sidekick by a guy named Jeff Cassidy? ... Uh, Jeff Cassidy did a short with Josh Dallas, Tom Cavanagh and Emily Bett Rickards. And it's on youtube right now. Sidekick. Movie. Short. 2016. Look it up. It's really, really awesome. And I was incredibly, uh, jealous of their visual effects. It was incredible."

Robbie Amell cheated.

-- SA: "I am so excited about this season of Arrow. And, uh, I -" RA: "Me too. Steve just gave us some spoilers." SA: "Big time spoilers. John Wick-style stuff." RA: "And angry Arrow [unintelligible word]." SA: "Really, really angry. Um, I just read episode 512, and I was so fired up after I read it. It was really good. Really good."

-- SA talked about when he guested on The Flash (to take down Reverse Flash) and he wanted his name and RA's name to appear in the credits at the same time. However, he was told they couldn't do that because SA was a special guest star but RA was a guest star. So for their names to appear on the same screen, RA had to be bumped up to special guest star. Then RA added that, for every episode after that, he was listed as a special guest star because, once he was bumped up, he couldn't be downgraded.

Bottom line... there's a lot of Code 8 postcards... 

Almost done!!!

-- On whether he would ever consider direct an episode of Arrow, SA: "People ask that question all the time and I used to say, 'no, for sure.' I - I still think 'no' because I think that it would be a little bit indulgent because I wouldn't really be available to prep and I wouldn't really be available to do post, but - (makes gesture with hands) ... No, I don't thinks so... I'm happy just acting on the show."

Edited November 6, 2016 by tv echo

[Lady Calypso]

I don't know what it is, but social media this season seems to be worse than the last four seasons. I actually get angry with every article and every tweet posted from the behind the scenes crew. Ok, on the one hand, I get that maybe writers and Guggie are tired of all the shippers who seem to only care about Olicity. They want to try giving both characters a new love interest for whatever reason (growth, space, whatever). Hearing all the Olicity fans ask about Olicity must get on their nerves, because maybe they feel like they only care about the ship (which I know isn't true). I guess they feel like their work isn't appreciated.

However, they're handling it all wrong and it's making them look like assholes when they dismiss their own fans. Attacking one demographic of your viewership is not only disrespectful and unprofessional, but it'll certainly decrease your ratings even more. Plus, these fans have legitimate concerns and not acknowledging that maybe mistakes were made just look bad. Fun fact, Arrow Writers: You're not gods. You're not perfect. You can make mistakes. And guess what? Storylines such as BMD and introducing a bland love interest just for the sake of having Felicity in a relationship so Oliver can potentially move on with other love interests are not smart ideas at all. 

I think they feel like if they admit to any mistakes, it'll look bad on their part. But it won't. It would actually gain some respect, especially if there's work done to fix it. But honestly, they should stay off of social media altogether if they can't handle the fans, and they should not be saying anything to them if it's not professional. The Arrow writers, showrunners, and...well, basically everyone needs a lesson or ten in social media. 

[NumberCruncher]

2 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

All the writers should just stay off Twitter for a while. Because even when/if they are not addressing Arrow fans, fans who are so frustrated at this point will be making it about them and it will not end well.

Keep digging yourself deeper there, Ben.  These people never learn.

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, EmeraldArcher said:

I clicked on the link to the article in that tweet, and the header picture is of Oliver and Felicity's fake wedding--WTH? <insert eye roll>

Because that's what gets  people interested in the article. The writers know that and they still write all the the male masks in.

[thegirlsleuth]

I can't figure out if all the contempt for shippers leaking through the social media and PR is by accident or some weirdly-reasoned design. I can understand that they made a decision to write away from Olicity in-show, although I don't enjoy it, but I can't get why they are being so unkind to their fans unless it is some effort to prove to the comic fans that they are not in the Olicity fans' pockets, which just seems absolutely crazy to me.  The writers have been ignoring Olicity art long before the fandom got mad, and I looked at Guggenheim's tweet and there were people cheering him on--not a lot, but some--so I guess it could be working. Plus, they continue to get engagement from the Olicity fandom, even if is outraged buzz, so until they offend the Olicity fans to the point the fans don't care or engage, they have no reason to change.

I wish Lexi Alexander had less professionalism.  She was such a booster for the show when she was filming and when it aired, and has done such a 180.  I respect her opinions and her experience and would love to get her read on what happened.

[apinknightmare]

I don't think this behavior has a whole lot to do with shippers so much as it has to do with people who aren't enjoying what they're serving and being vocal about it. This isn't the first time MG and Co. have been antagonistic to their audience. They've behaved this way before (to Oliver/Laurel shippers, Laurel fans who were upset about her death, and Sara fans before her. Maybe other storylines that I didn't care enough about to notice). It's just focused on this particular subset of fandom at the moment. 

Edited November 6, 2016 by apinknightmare

[TwistedandBored]

I think the writers have always been dicks. I remember back in the day when we used to say that is funny but should they be behaving that way toward that fandom/etc? 

The only think different now is they are quick to defend their own stupidity with a bitchy comment cause they realized most of these Olicity fan accounts reach wider audiences that don't normally follow their accounts or articles. I mean most of the news/quotes from articles I get are from other fan accounts that summarize the article for me or let me know something exciting is coming up. 

[dtissagirl]

I think if there's a difference is they were used to certain volume of complaints. And this time around there is a lot more of it, simply because there are MORE of O/F fans than there were of the previous fans they were dicks to... and the O/F fans retweet game is very very good.

[SmallScreenDiva]

The writers also are not just getting the generic "Your story sucks" complaints. Many of these fans actually have a list of detailed grievances. It's one thing to get the usual "Olicity is killing Arrow" complaints from CB fans; it's another to have Olicity fans pointing out every single epic fail in storytelling with all kinds of details to back it up (such as the GIF responses to the lessons Oliver already supposedly earned). One thing I've noticed about Olicity fans, a lot of them are very smart and very articulate.

[insomniadreams88]

I think it's also just easier for them to act like people are upset about Olicity, especially in 140 characters on Twitter. Fans may add a photo of a list of grievances, but writers are answering in a tweet or series of tweets. 

[calliope1975]

8 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

All the writers should just stay off Twitter for a while. Because even when/if they are not addressing Arrow fans, fans who are so frustrated at this point will be making it about them and it will not end well.

They want people to just watch the show and not think about it. Be mindless consumers and thank TIIC profusely for what we're getting. Except TV changed a long time ago, and that's not how it works anymore. The internet made it possible to connect with fans across the globe and dissect your favorite show for good and bad. I get their conundrum; you can't write a show based only on fans. But instead of trying to even attempt to figure out how to operate in this new world of interactive viewing, many show creators seem to think the best plan of operation is to insult fans and tell them they're watching the show wrong. It's definitely a choice, maybe not one I would make, but it's a choice. I'd rather they just deleted their accounts. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Isn't Sokolowski the one who likened fans to Trump or something? Anyone remember that or have a screencap? All I can remember is that he deleted it very quickly.

[LeighAn]

Yes he likened I believe the hatred Laurel fans have for Olicity fans  as anti trump supporters have for trump or something to that effect.

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Isn't Sokolowski the one who likened fans to Trump or something? Anyone remember that or have a screencap? All I can remember is that he deleted it very quickly.

IIRC he asked which was worse - people who hate Olicity or Donald Trump - as a way of making fun of any shipper who responded that Olicity haters were the worse of the two. 

[smoaksmichaelas]

5 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I don't think this behavior has a whole lot to do with shippers so much as it has to do with people who aren't enjoying what they're serving and being vocal about it. This isn't the first time MG and Co. have been antagonistic to their audience. They've behaved this way before (to Oliver/Laurel shippers, Laurel fans who were upset about her death, and Sara fans before her. Maybe other storylines that I didn't care enough about to notice). It's just focused on this particular subset of fandom at the moment. 

At the moment? I guess I'm the only one that thinks they've (ok just MG) always been this way towards Olicity fans or maybe just Felicity fans. I don't know why people are surprised. 

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, smoaksmichaelas said:

At the moment? I guess I'm the only one that thinks they've (ok just MG) always been this way towards Olicity fans or maybe just Felicity fans. I don't know why people are surprised. 

This is not untrue.  I never could understand why there was this belief by some that MG favored Olicity fans since he IMO has always tortured us on and off screen.  

He did at times give the people what they wanted with BTS picts or pages of scripts after the fact by that was pretty easy PR.  He also has been real consistent in rewarding people that stroke his ego and gush over his work vs those that were upset, but even when he was getting a lot of praise and positive reactions, he still delighted in messing with minds and giving non answers and in general has always been far more interested in his cool action stuff and his plot twists than character first writing.  And once the BMD stuff happened, he seemed personally offended by lack of appreciation for his genius.  

This feels like more of the same.  But I also agree that he's always behaved badly when anyone criticized his work.  

[doesntworkonwood]

16 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

All the writers should just stay off Twitter for a while. Because even when/if they are not addressing Arrow fans, fans who are so frustrated at this point will be making it about them and it will not end well.

I wonder if he realises that fan theories have been a thing since at least Star Wars first came out? Probably a lot earlier than that. The point is if you're writing anything that is serialized, you've got to expect fan theories. An even if you aren't, you've got to expect fan theories. Historically, fan theories don't ruin shows. Bad writers do. 

[apinknightmare]

10 hours ago, smoaksmichaelas said:

At the moment? I guess I'm the only one that thinks they've (ok just MG) always been this way towards Olicity fans or maybe just Felicity fans. I don't know why people are surprised. 

I think there's been some good-natured teasing, and some not-so good-natured goading on his part in the past, but when fandom subsets turn on him for whatever reason, he gets his little hackles up and does his best to devalue and antagonize them by making sure they know their viewership doesn't matter. I do think this is new territory for the Olicity fandom (and by "new" I mean relatively - it started last year after the BMD, and is the "focus" now because they seem to have driven the bulk of most other detractors away). 

Edited November 7, 2016 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

12 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

The writers also are not just getting the generic "Your story sucks" complaints. Many of these fans actually have a list of detailed grievances. It's one thing to get the usual "Olicity is killing Arrow" complaints from CB fans; it's another to have Olicity fans pointing out every single epic fail in storytelling with all kinds of details to back it up (such as the GIF responses to the lessons Oliver already supposedly earned). One thing I've noticed about Olicity fans, a lot of them are very smart and very articulate.

 

3 hours ago, doesntworkonwood said:

I wonder if he realises that fan theories have been a thing since at least Star Wars first came out? Probably a lot earlier than that. The point is if you're writing anything that is serialized, you've got to expect fan theories. An even if you aren't, you've got to expect fan theories. Historically, fan theories don't ruin shows. Bad writers do. 

The only thing that changed is that lately, both entertainment media and creators are  occupying the exact same space as fandom. Social media erased the relative seclusion fandom used to have. And hey, the funny part is -- fans have actually lived in this space and created communities, and language, and relationships, way before either media or creators arrived here.

And now creators think that, because they have ownership of content, fandom is obviously subservient to them. And just. LOL. Ask the women who made slash happen in Star Trek fandom 40+ years ago [slash fic is literally named after the / symbol from Kirk/Spock fics]. Fandom has always consumed content in different ways the creatives intended it to be consumed. It just wasn't in the creatives' face before.

Then there's entertainment media, which is actively scouting fandom for content, and is HILARIOUSLY terrified of fandom, because more often than not, 1. fandom is way better at creating content, and 2. fandom threatens the media's place as intermediaries between creatives and fans. Fans now have direct access to creatives, and media resents THE FUCK out of that.

And that's why we get entertainment media writing thinkpieces on how fandom is ~ruining tv shows~, and creatives agreeing with them. They're petrified of fangirls.