Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

[Zalyn]

I thought it would be fun to have a thread for discussing filming and other techniques used in the production of Arrow.  Lighting, sets, and angles can contribute immensely to the ambience and impact of a show.

For example, I've noticed that they really like shiny or wet floors.  I'm rewatching "Vertigo," and it opens with a guy running across wet pavement.  The "Arrow Cave" has a shiny floor (it almost looks like it's covered in water at times) as well. 

I haven't found any resources discussing this, and it definitely seems deliberate given how often it shows up.

Another thing that is more obvious and that has been talked about in a "Making of" video is the use of color.  For such a dark show, there is really vivid color used throughout, and it gives an almost saccharine feel to things (in a good way), like it's artificial and false rather than alive and vibrant.

Anyway, have at it.  What have you noticed about how scenes are framed or shot that are interesting?

[bravelittletoaster]

I think they probably like wet surfaces because they bounce light in lots of interesting ways, especially with so many dark exterior scenes.  There is something aesthetically pleasing about light hitting wet pavement, and very noirish about the "just rained" look.

[BkWurm1]

I've noticed the wet pavement thing for sure. I think it just films prettier, that or it's always raining in Vancouver. I think either could be the case, though I find myself laughing about the guy whose job it is to wet the pavement. Lol.

I've also notice how rare we see the use of natural light without an obvious filter (the island filter) I think that is one of the reasons why in Suicide Squad the scene between Felicity and Diggle stands out so much to me.

[Zalyn]

"Hose boy!  More wet, now!"

I'm originally from Seattle, which is near Vancouver, so I could believe it.  But it actually doesn't rain quite as much as we let outsiders think; it's good negative PR to keep people from moving out and joining us.  :)

Good point on the natural light - I'm going to keep an eye out for that now.

[BkWurm1]

I had an inkling that "City of Blood" was going to be too much Laurel right from the opening shots of the episode.  I'll get to that toward the end, but I wanted to note the effectiveness of the camera work on the opening shots.  A lot of information is conveyed very quickly. 

 

The camera slowly zooms closer on the group attending Moira's funeral.  A quick glance at the crowd and we see Thea, an empty chair, and Walter.  Behind Thea and to the left we see Felicity then Diggle and over Thea's right shoulder Quentin and Laurel.  Cut to Blood being sworn in as Mayor (wait, that happened really fast, nobody had even voted yet and funerals usually happen within a couple weeks at most- shakes continuity problems off.  It's not like elections happen in April either)

 

Then we cut back to a close up of Thea.  Kind of fuzzy in the background are Felicity and Quentin.  The next shot is nicely done as Thea glances at the empty chair next to her and the camera pans down to the pink rose bud sitting starkly against the black.  Everyone else is holding their rose. 

 

Then we jump back to a wide shot of the whole funeral, the minister is walking away.  Funeral is over and Oliver didn't show.  Next shot is a close up of Walters face, but it doesn't linger on him long, before he goes fuzzy and the camera focuses on Laurel's (blank) stare and then the camera slowly slides to Quentin and I reasonably expected it to continue panning to the left (Felicity and Diggle) but nope, it cuts back to Blood's swearing in ceremony.  I thought, oh, we'll cut back to the funeral and get the close ups of Felicity and Diggle but again, nope.  

 

We've moved on to the ceremonial laying of the roses on the coffin.  Walter takes the rose sitting on Oliver's empty chair and lays it on the coffin for the absent Oliver (which makes me tear up a little) the camera focuses on Thea's face as the row behind her files out behind her.  The montage ends with Blood finishing up and then we are at the party at the Queen Mansion. 

 

Yes, this was Moira's funeral but Oliver not showing up was important too so I expected an extra second spent on a close up of Felicity and Diggle, you know a pair of centrally important characters to this show?  But no, they don't rate a close up that lets us gauge their feelings on what is going on, not in the pretty cinematic pictures are worth a thousand words sweeping montage and yeah, right away I muttered crap, they are going to push Laurel on us really hard in this episode. 

[BkWurm1]

Someone on TWoP mentioned the way the camera lingered on Oliver's hand when he was touching Felicity.  Once I think on the shoulder and then also when he accepted her hug.  In that same scene with the hug, there was also this really interesting camera flare where light seemed to enfold both Oliver and Felicity. 

 

Perhaps a tie into Oliver needing someone help realize the light he has inside of himself?

[ArctisTor]

Oh!  Great thread idea!  Nothing of substance to contribute really, but I love some of those shots of Oliver on that salmon ladder (I love them ALL, let's be real), but there are a few in particular where Oliver's on it in his glorious shirtlessness and they've got steam coming out of the pipes from behind him.  Aside from any meta thoughts of the underground Foundry representing a kind of Underworld/Hades (I believe the foundry was a former steel or iron works?  Reminds me of Hephaestus), but Stephen's body being hot as hell.  LOL

 

[GirlWednesday]

The death match between Slade and Oliver in the present. So well done but one thing took me out of the show. The two suddenly ended up on a roof and there was no transition to that location. Who chased who to the roof. It was an odd choice to make. Something similar to what happened in heir to the demon. One sec Sarah is dying and the two (Oliver and Nysaa) are fighting indoors, then suddenly they are on the docks and Sarah is there and collapses again. Both transitions were jarring for me. I cannot recall if there were others like these two.

[BkWurm1]

Something similar to what happened in heir to the demon

 

I thought the same thing watching it.

 

On another note, I wanted to remark on again, how much I enjoyed seeing people in the sun.  This show never seems to be shot in the daylight.  There was something about the scene on the beach with the core three that looked like a happily ever after.  In a way after all the losses the team had, this was their happy ending, if only for a little while.

[slayer2]

I really enjoy the blue lighting theme they've got going for the lair. I guess blue represents calm and serenity so it makes it doubly terrifying when someone like Slade invades their space. It's like the Winter Soldier catching Captain America's shield. I also like how the club just above it seems to have a red theme and every time they discuss things up there it seems to be right before something really dangerous is going to happen. Almost like the red is a flashing warning sign.

ETA I can get down with the Hades allegory as well.

Edited May 19, 2014 by slayer2

[slayer2]

A place to talk about Sally the Salmon Ladder. Manu and Caity's parkour tricks and all the incredible things SA does without a stunt double.
I wanted to see if anyone wanted to talk fitness. It seems that MB and CL are old hats at this martial arts, parkour stuff and SA has truly impressed me with the dedication he has to the physicality of Arrow. I saw a free-running gym video of his and man-o-man. Inspiring! Even more inspiring is CL's breakdancing and parkour videos. Haven't found anything from MB yet though.

Edited May 19, 2014 by slayer2

[KirkB]

Sally should definitely be in the credits next season. It should end With John Barrowman as Malcolm And Sally as Herself.

Edited May 19, 2014 by KirkB

[slayer2]

Oh god. Sally is AWESOME!! How hard do you reckon it is to use that thing?

[KirkB]

Although it's a little odd that a place called Verdant would have a red theme.

[slayer2]

Why, what's Verdant?

[icandigit]

Motivation

 

Edited May 19, 2014 by Lisin
fixed embed

[calliope1975]

Verdant basically means green. That Oliver, so subtle.

[catrox14]

HOLY CRAP! I've never seen that before. 

 

ALL HAIL LORD AMELL!!

 

We are not worthy

[slayer2]

Motivation

Whaaat? Dear icandigit I love you. That.is.all Edited May 19, 2014 by slayer2

[slayer2]

Hahaha! Okay thanks. Yeah that's not particularly subtle is it? They don't seem to throw a lot of green into the show except on the island (that I've noticed).

[Sakura12]

Here's Caity in action!

 

This vid is another one my favs, it was from when Caity was training to be a stunt woman. 

 

Edited May 19, 2014 by Sakura12

[KirkB]

Wow. Remind me never to piss Caity off.

[slayer2]

Ha! Thanks Sakura that was awesome. She's... *shakes head* I'm just speechless.

[Zalyn]

I just recently started watching Spartacus and Manu is quite awesome in it.  He does do "badass pining for girl" in there too, and quite sappy for a gladiator at that. 

 

I get so motivated watching shows where the actors are clearly busting their asses to be in great shape!  I also find it interesting how SA managed to somersault over the Uncanny Valley of Male EyeCandy to be admired by straight dudes at conventions (who ask about his fitness) even while gals (and quite a few guys) enjoy ogling him.  Yet he's not uber macho or jerky about it, which makes him a great role model for lots of people.

[slayer2]

I agree Zalyn I've been hitting the gym so much harder and consistently since watching Arrow. That kind of discipline is only inspiring and can only bring good things to your life.

Edited May 19, 2014 by slayer2

[Sakura12]

What I found impressive was when Caity had a day or two off from shooting Arrow, she was going snowboarding, rock climbing and taking dance classes. WTF, girl, don't you rest? lol.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Sakura12

[slayer2]

You know what I think it's addictive and I think that watching SA in all his training and the various crazy ways they have him show Oliver's training on the show that it just turns into a bigger and bigger mountain. Once you've mastered the Salmon Ladder you want to do push-ups on your hands, once you do push-ups on your hands you want to do Wing Chun and that crazy bashing cement thing he was doing. I think it's possible with Caity that since she started with dance and the flexibility of that that it's like learning French, after you learn French you learn Spanish, then Italian, then Portuguese. Suddenly you're Maya Angelou and you know like 6 languages. It's a pretty cool way to go through life.

[pootlus]

In the S1 video there's a scene at the end where Stephen is holding himself horizontally above Emily and David, and making it look effortless - doesn't gravity apply to him or something?

 

Caity moves so fast and furiously I'd hate to get into a fight with her, I suspect I'd be out cold before I even registered that it had started.

[Danny Franks]

Honestly, whatever fitness programme Caity Lotz is on, I want in. And not just for the health benefits, but for the chance to meet women who look like her. 

 

I wonder if the likes of EBR and Willa feel utterly inadequate, at times, when surrounded by Caity, Stephen Amell and David Ramsey? Even though they're all in great shape themselves, some of this cast just look like superhumans.

 

Is Katie Cassidy training herself up to look like she belongs? Is she working to master the skills she'll need to be able to do the stunt work required? I could guess an answer to both of those questions.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Danny Franks

[slayer2]

In the S1 video there's a scene at the end where Stephen is holding himself horizontally above Emily and David, and making it look effortless - doesn't gravity apply to him or something?

 

Caity moves so fast and furiously I'd hate to get into a fight with her, I suspect I'd be out cold before I even registered that it had started.

I definitely would. I have started to think of her as superhuman, I mean she just does so many things, and so well that it's frankly...shocking. Almost appalling but I have such an appreciation for her that I wouldn't dare be appalled. I would like to know what her, SA and DR's cardio is like though. I wonder if it's primarily parkour/dance/martial arts or if they get any running, or elipitical in there.

Edited May 19, 2014 by slayer2

[bluebonnet]

The dedication to fitness and the openness to risk is what make the action scenes so amazing.  They are obviously 'comic book exaggerated' but there is still a seamlessness to them.  I never realized how much we lose in most action scenes when stunt doubles are used prolifically.  The Arrow is more 'Arrow' to me because I know the actor playing him is actually doing the fighting.  His bruises and hurts are more believable, his risks are more terrifying.  I mean, we all know the Arrow isn't going to die because he's the star of the show, but still, you know what I mean.  When characters like Det. Lance talk about the sacrifices the Arrow makes, we can believe it.

 

Also, I've never been so pleased with the eye candy before.  I like it even more because it's mostly the males who are sexually objectified since they are nekkid when working out.  I have legit done sit ups while watching the show. 

Edited May 20, 2014 by SystemRemote

[Sakura12]

In case anyone needs inspiration to start working out.

 

Edited May 20, 2014 by Sakura12

[catrox14]

Well, I'll just kill myself now. LOL.   Where's my chocolate?

[bluebonnet]

Not gonna lie, I'm sort of hoping we get to see Nyssa a bit uncovered next season.  It's impossible to understand how Katrina Law could be so damn beautiful.  My fantasy is that Oliver loses all his past, present and future lady loves to Nyssa so that he can truly understand this manpain he keeps feeling.  

[slayer2]

Well, I'll just kill myself now. LOL. Where's my chocolate?

Nah dude, just kill yourself in the gym instead.

I think these guys are all doing martial arts/strict diets/protein shakes, the works. Surprised none of them have been on the cover of Men's/Women's Health as yet, or maybe the have and I just haven't seen them. Hell they could do a cast issue exclusive, if I were the shows PR I'd get on that stat. If gymrats knew about this show they'd never have to worry about ratings again.

BTW thanks Sakura for that pic.

Edited May 21, 2014 by slayer2

[catrox14]

Death by chocolate sounds much more appealing. I'm lazy and old.

[slayer2]

The other day I saw a 60 odd year old woman working the kettle ball like a beast, it's what introduced me to kettle balls actually. :) Plus I've found watching Arrow while on the treadmill improves the experience of the show and the workout ha!

[catrox14]

Seriously though. The only curls I'll be doing are the 16 oz kind.

[pootlus]

I like doing weights as a woman, but man is it hard work after watching fit people (and especially blokes) making it look easy.

A lot of women shy away from weights (apart from the 500g pink girlie weights which aren't worth bothering with) because they think they'll turn into Arnie - which is pretty much impossible for a woman unless you take testosterone/steroids, or have an endocrine dysfunction like Caster Semanya.

I think Caity Lotz is a fantastic advert for being fit and strong, fast and flexible. She'd probably be the first to say that she's not exceptional - but she does work bloody hard, I'll bet. I wouldn't be surprised if she spends an hour a day training, even when filming.

[catrox14]

Y'all, I am not bashing fitness here. I am making jokes. Lots of jokes.  I've done my share of weight training, I played competitive tennis, I swim.  I'm more than happy to admire the young folks and their fitness levels on this show whilst I foist my 16 oz curls.

[pootlus]

Edumacate me, what is the 16oz reference?

< Australian, and metricated.

[Sakura12]

 

Marital arts is a great workout, it's fun and you learn how to kick ass. I'm in Krav Maga it's a martial art that teaches you how to defend yourself in real world situations. 

[catrox14]

Pints of beer and/or ale.

[statsgirl]

The guys, and Caity, are in great shape. But the pressure on actors to be unrealistically built is just as bad is it is for actresses to be unrealistically stick thin.  http://www.mensjournal.com/magazine/building-a-bigger-action-hero-20140418  (Manu Bennett story on page 4.)  Daniel Craig worked out for 6 hours a day to get the body that came out of the sea.  Yikes!

 

At the Dallas Comic Con, Manu Bennett talked about how you move differently when you have lots of muscle compared to when  you don't.  It's around the 22 minute mark.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6DsjAEIE0I&feature=youtu.be

 

 

However, you have inspired me to go back to weight training.  I got sick a while back and in a rehab program and was surprised that even with all the walking, what really made the difference was the weights (resistance training).  I stopped over the winter because cold, but you've shamed me into going back.  

Edited May 21, 2014 by Lisin

[slayer2]

Haha! Yay! I mean sorry for the shame but...yay! Sakura is that Caity, and if so on what show? I've actually been keen to try Krav Maga since seeing it in Bourne Ultimatum. How do you like it?

Re: Guys and pressure to be fit, thanks for that clip. I can definitely see it being a problem but not nearly as big as the pressure for women to be rail thin and frankly I'm glad they finally get to feel half the pressure women do. I think if you want to be in an action movie you'd better be jacked. I'm not paying $12 to see muffin tops and kangaroo pouches. So many movies and shows have Jack Blacks and Seth Organs paired up with women who look like Cobie Smulders (sp?) and Jennifer Aniston and it pisses me right off. It's one of the reasons I'm so psyched to see CL out there, hopefully with the hero worship I and others (I'm looking at you bravelittletoaster ) have for her it will help to change industry standards so we can start embracing strong female bodies instead of unhealthy skinny ones.

I think CL is already spearheading that change as I think about SMG on Buffy all those years ago and she wouldn't cut it on Arrow now even with her martial arts background because she just looks so frail. Even Cara on The Tomorrow People had a healthier looking body type than her and you have people like the girl from Big Bang Theory who has guns like what and I think it's really making a difference.

I just balk when I see bodytypes like SMG on the cover of SELF promoting a seemingly unhealthy body type as fit. I really think this show should get everybody a Women's/Men's Health cover shoot, I think it would do amazing things for the show and fitness in general.

Edited May 21, 2014 by slayer2

[Sakura12]

The gifs are from MTV's Death Valley, she played a rookie police officer that fought zombies, werewolves and vampires. She did all her own stunts.

I really love Krav Maga. It's very physical more so the other martial arts I've taken. My class sets up situations that can actually happen in real life and teaches you what you can do to defend yourself, even when you are small like me.

[slayer2]

Oh cool! I'm small too! I liked the line Sara had about Wing Chun being perfect for small people "like us". How long have you been at Krav Maga?

Edited May 21, 2014 by slayer2

[Sakura12]

I just started. lol about 2 months. I have belts in Tae Kwon Do and Judo from when I was younger. I wanted to try something that's more realistic defense wise. Krav Maga was the best one I found. 

 

One of the exercises we do is stand in the middle of the room with our eyes closed, then our partner is supposed to run at us and put their hands around our throats and we're taught how to take them down quickly. 

[bravelittletoaster]

It's one of the reasons I'm so psyched to see CL out there, hopefully with the hero worship I and others (I'm looking at you bravelittletoaster ) have for her it will help to change industry standards so we can start embracing strong female bodies instead of unhealthy skinny ones.

lol, I'm a latecomer to this thread but amused to be called out.  Glad my reputation as a Caity acolyte precedes me.  And I'll be beyond thrilled if this becomes a wider trend.  Women have always been held to nearly impossibly high standards in visual media, but I definitely prefer this version, personally.  As a gym rat myself I find it to be really good motivation.  Funny how I got back into fitness from tv.  Not the way one normally thinks of that relationship.  And I'm more given to building muscle than being willowy myself, so Caity's a great model for me, and I second the opinion that this is a great show to watch at the gym.  I know how hard I work and where I'm at, and I have mad respect for all these guys because I have a pretty good idea of how much they must work to maintain that shape.  As for Caity it's the age old question for me, "Do I want her or want to be her?"  Both, I think.  Heh.

[Zalyn]

So two tidbits related to fitness that might be of interest:

 

1) A great pic of different female body shapes for Olympic athletes that emphasizes the great variety that healthy, awesome bodies have:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/19/howard-schatz-photos-women-professional-athletes_n_4297902.html

 

2) A great article by an experienced personal trainer who criticizes the lack of knowledge and understanding about how women's and men's bodies are seen to be so different that the same exercise is expected to have completely opposite effects.  Good food for thought, especially for the ladies who want to work out but are concerned about getting too "thick" :

 

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1305014