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Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

Zalyn

By Zalyn
in Arrow

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dtissagirl
dtissagirl

What bugs me is the implication that if you are not patient, you're watching it wrong. Naw, son. You don't get to tell me how I watch TV. I'm an actual pro at doing it.

WindofChange
WindofChange

Oh wow, Emily. I'm impressed because this is really brave and I'm really proud that she said this in such an eloquent way.

dtissagirl
dtissagirl

Ha. Reading those stage directions, and realizing how EBR went the opposite way [curious and skeptic rather than faint by hot guy] makes me understand 100% how fucking lost they were at that time, and

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I seriously doubt there's a conspiracy going on here. Chico6 said they would do actor interviews for 302, im guessing she actually meant starting with 302. So 302 was a Laurel episode and she did all the press. 303/304 are heavy onThea/Merlyn and has Laurel meeting Ted & Nyssa, so that's why these 4 are doing interviews.

I'm not sure why Ramsey isn't doing press since 303 is supposed to be a Diggle episode but maybe it's not. I will assume that EBR will do interviews for Flash 104 and Arrow 305.

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

I knew I was in for a bad time when they dropped four KC interviews on me at once.  I'll be watching closely to see when today's interviews are released because that will be a good indicator that another Laurel-heavy episode looms on the horizon.

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Kymmi

Kymmi

I made a pact with myself to never read a KC interview again.  Not good for my blood pressure, nor helpful for how I view the show.  There's nothing I can do but avoid it.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but MGs post about writing Olicity because of Stephen and Emily's on screen chemistry doesn't mean that they're pandering to the fans. I was just lurking in imdb and apparently people think that it means that MG is saying they're fan pandering. MG said they were writing their relationship according to what they see on screen, not the fans reaction to the chemistry... Or am I wrong? 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but MGs post about writing Olicity because of Stephen and Emily's on screen chemistry doesn't mean that they're pandering to the fans. I was just lurking in imdb and apparently people think that it means that MG is saying they're fan pandering. MG said they were writing their relationship according to what they see on screen, not the fans reaction to the chemistry... Or am I wrong? 

 

No, you're right.

 

The people I've seen saying that writing for chemistry is fan-pandering keep hammering on and on about how "chemistry" is subjective, which imo is missing a very important point: Hollywood does NOT think onscreen chemistry is subjective.

 

Everyone in this industry believes onscreen chemistry is something measurable. No matter how unexplainable/~magical it may look, in how chemistry can't be forced. But Hollywood built an entire industry by finding actors with crazy good chemistry and put them together over and over again in movies all through the 40s and 50s. And it's still the same standard, and much more valuable on TV because you need that chemistry to repeat weekly for X seasons, rather than for a 2-hour movie.

 

Also, it kinda doesn't matter whether individuals in the audience see the chemistry or not, because they're only reacting to it months after Hollywood saw it and spent money on it. Producers, directors and casting directors spend their careers hoping for actors to have instant espontaneous insane chemistry in front of them, so they can go to the bank on it. It's the golden goose of Hollywood.

Edited by dancingnancy
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

Question: Stephen, is this felicity love interest solely because of the fans? or was that a long term plan?

 

Answer: I'd be careful calling a single kiss a love interest. Or the fact that it's just one kiss could make it incredibly important. Aren't you glad this season has 21 more episodes.

 

What is that supposed to mean?

 

I have no idea what SA is playing at but instead of answering such stupid questions he should just keep quiet because things like this only rile people up. Felicity has been a love interest since the moment he told her he loved her. You could argue that she was a love interest all throughout s2 because there were clearly feelings growing there and mentions of O/F liking each other romantically by other characters. So to suddenly say she might not be a love interest after one kiss is ridiculous and insulting, especially after everything SA said at SDCC. 

 

Unfortunately, I've probably been fooled a few too many times at this point.  It's taken a long time, but I've eventually caught on that these guys aren't very honest, and they rarely deliver on their promises.  They've eroded all trust to the point where I might not still be here by the time they're done messing with me. 

 

Same. I'm choosing to ignore everything the EP's say from this point forward because I've not really seen anything they've said so far come true. O/L's great bond? Nope. Wasn't there. O/F mutual declaration of feelings in 301? Hardly. There's clearly a disconnect between their intentions and what comes across on screen. It's best if we just make up our own minds.

 

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but MGs post about writing Olicity because of Stephen and Emily's on screen chemistry doesn't mean that they're pandering to the fans. I was just lurking in imdb and apparently people think that it means that MG is saying they're fan pandering. MG said they were writing their relationship according to what they see on screen, not the fans reaction to the chemistry... Or am I wrong? 

 

You're not wrong at all. They began writing with SA and EBR's chemistry in mind before season one even aired so this fan pandering argument doesn't even make any sense. 

Edited by Guest
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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

I have no idea what SA is playing at but instead of answering such stupid questions he should just keep quiet because things like this only rile people up. Felicity has been a love interest since the moment he told her he loved her. You could argue that she was a love interest all throughout s2 because there were clearly feelings growing there and mentions of O/F liking each other romantically by other characters. So to suddenly say she might not be a love interest after one kiss is ridiculous and insulting, especially after everything SA said at SDCC. 

 

 

Given the utterly shambolic planning and pacing of the first two seasons of this show, and what has unfolded so far in the third season, I wouldn't blame Stephen for being reticent about anything at all, right now. Sure, he's probably eight or nine episodes ahead of the curve, in terms of knowing what will happen, but given the way things are being written, he might be half-scared that Felicity and 50 Shades will be married by the end of the season, and the Arrow will have become Bland Canary's sidekick.

 

But, having already decided I'm just going to snipe from the sidelines, and no longer watch, I think it would almost be funny if the writers did shove Oliver and Laurel back together, because it would be the most wonderful example of tone deaf, ignorant, 'refuse to listen to the fans' piece of writing I'd ever have come across. It'd be worth framing and holding up for all to see, just so that Arrow could be remembered as how not to write a show.

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Chaser

Chaser

I'm more inclined to think that was just a poorly worded question and a poorly worded answer.

 

But I'm more curious about the second part of his answer regarding that one kiss could be incredibly important. I don't know why, it just struck me as important.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

David Ramsey posted Foundry Friday pic earlier, she's there. Unless he posted an old pic, but I don't see why he would.

 

https://twitter.com/david_ramsey/status/523162756305129472

It looks like she's wearing a man's shirt in that pic.  I'm always wondering how she's not freezing in those cut-away dresses while the guys are wearing two or three layers. SA said he pinched a nerve in s1 trying to stay warm while shirtless in the lair.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I remember SA making fun of Caity Lotz for wearing a wetsuit under her outfit. I guess even the actors don't notice that the guys get to be covered from head to toe or wear a bunch of layers, while the women are wearing skin baring outfits to entice the men. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

One episode became two episodes, became three episodes, and then the next thing you knew we were like, “Oh, we really gotta bring her into the fold because otherwise she’s the dumbest person on the planet for not recognizing him, Oliver Queen, as the Arrow.” - Old MG Interview

This made me cackle because MG indirectly called Laurel and Quentin the dumbest people on the planet for not recognizing Oliver Queen as the Arrow. I give Thea a pass because she's never had a run-in with him I think... 

Edited by wonderwall
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Kymmi

Kymmi

I remember SA making fun of Caity Lotz for wearing a wetsuit under her outfit. I guess even the actors don't notice that the guys get to be covered from head to toe or wear a bunch of layers, while the women are wearing skin baring outfits to entice the men. 

 

Wow - that's impressive.  Wearing a wetsuit under a tight outfit?  She is very comfortable with her body and her image - that's awesome.  

 

My favorite SA/CL stories were during the last episodes of S2 and SA had to remind to her to "be cool" because she had this giant grin on her face like when they were marching with the LOA down in the tunnel.  Love her.

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AnalyzeAndCritique

AnalyzeAndCritique

Given the utterly shambolic planning and pacing of the first two seasons of this show, and what has unfolded so far in the third season, I wouldn't blame Stephen for being reticent about anything at all, right now. Sure, he's probably eight or nine episodes ahead of the curve, in terms of knowing what will happen, but given the way things are being written, he might be half-scared that Felicity and 50 Shades will be married by the end of the season, and the Arrow will have become Bland Canary's sidekick.

 

But, having already decided I'm just going to snipe from the sidelines, and no longer watch, I think it would almost be funny if the writers did shove Oliver and Laurel back together, because it would be the most wonderful example of tone deaf, ignorant, 'refuse to listen to the fans' piece of writing I'd ever have come across. It'd be worth framing and holding up for all to see, just so that Arrow could be remembered as how not to write a show.

I hope one day there is a tell-all which will allow SA to give us insight into how he feels about the decisions and direction of the show. Poor guy puts everything into it, but he has to be disheartened. I bet he meets with AK and MG and they tell him one thing.

 

Pre-season

"Oliver loves Felicity and while they won't be together immediately (because we are non-creative bastards who believe drama is keeping a couple apart), we will get there. We agree Oliver needs to stop fucking every female. It was our intention all along for Oliver and Felicity to make strides towards a healthy relationship." 

SA: "Excellent. I think Oliver will get there and it starts with him committing to Felicity even if they aren't in a relationship. Thanks, guys. Glad we had this meeting. Can you rethink killing Sara?"

 

Mid-season

SA: "Remember the conversation we had a few months ago about Oliver and Felicity? What the heck is going on? Ray just proposed and Felicity said yes. Also why is Laurel attached to my hip in every scene? She had to move into my place for what reason?"

"Trust us. We've been planning this for months. Arrow and Canary belong together. Felicity is happy with Ray. Oliver and Laurel were meant to be from their teen years."

SA: "What?"

"Here is your script. Go deliver an Emmy worthy performance with Katie."

SA leaves the room scratching his head.

 

End of Season 3

SA: "You killed Sara at the beginning of the season to make room for Laurel to be the Black Canary. You are killing Felicity at the end of the season?"

"Oliver will always have remnants of feelings for Felicity and the fans will always want them together. We need to kill Felicity so we can marry Oliver and Laurel next season. There may be a pregnancy scare and it will force Oliver to commit. It might not just be a scare, but we haven't decided yet."

SA leaves the room to down a bottle or two of Knocking Point before he goes on a press tour and is forced to talk up Arrow S4 and most likely S5 because of syndication. 

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KirkB

KirkB

Some people can be stronger than they look. I can see Laurel being strong enough to pick Sara's body up. But this would be more than that. She would have to pick her up and put her in the car (assuming she doesn't want us to believe Laurel carried her all the way back to the lair) drive to the club, then lift her out of the car and carry her all the way down into the lair. Especially considering she has three arrows sticking out of her, which physically limits the ways she could be carried. Sad as it may be the dragging thing actually makes more sense.

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

How…how could she even carry her? KC looks like a twig about to snap.

this is what I wonder. Although I get why they deleted it, I kinda wish they didn't just so I could see it, because my brain can't really comprehend it lol. 

Edited by ban1o
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wingster55

wingster55

(edited)
but he has to be disheartened

 

He may find the storytelling to be quite good actually. Who knows. 

 

Don't know how Laurel/Katie could've pulled that off. Hell I don't know if Stephen or David could have without some dragging.

Edited by wingster55
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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

Which is why we all said Laurel probably dragged Sara by her ankles to Verdant then let her head hit every step on the way down because she knows Sara has a bad habit of not staying dead. She needed to make sure, so she can steal the rest of her costume and take Sara's place with the crime fighting and with Team Arrow.  

Edited by Sakura12
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writersblock51

writersblock51

I"m too tired to post more than a If we don't see pics, it didn't happen.  Sara's body had the 3 arrows perfectly aligned still sticking out from her torso.  No way did ANYONE carry her into a car & down the foundry stairs.

 

So heaven knows what the scene actually would have looked like.  Glad it got cut. 

 

As for all the EPs and stars lying... yes, they do. I for one am sick and tired of it.  "Just watch!" should be the way to go.

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AshleyN

AshleyN

Poor guy puts everything into it, but he has to be disheartened.

Why, exactly? You're assuming that just because some people here have soured on Arrow it must mean that he has, which I think is a pretty big assumption. Especially when you consider that, from what I've seen actually, they're in the minority - the general media/critical consensus on the show is quite high and has been for awhile. Popular online critics like Alan Sepinwall, Todd Vanderwerff, and Maureen Ryan have talked about being fans of the show (with the latter basically having written it a love letter after last year's finale), Grantland recently ran an article in praise of the show, and just about every article/review I've read on any of the recent onslaught of comic-book themed TV shows has pointed to Arrow as an example of how it can be done right.

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quarks

quarks

To be fair, however, those same critics were more meh on "Sara," and those two articles were both written/published before the "Sara" episode. The IMDB.com rating also went down slightly for "Sara," as did the ratings, and users on other sites have left negative comments. (Some people didn't even like the motorcycle jousting!!!! Are you kidding me? Motorcycle jousting! I am shocked, I tell you, shocked.) 

 

Having said that, it's just one episode, and, in my opinion, it's hardly Arrow's worst. That, for me, remains "Time of Death." On the bright side, Arrow did recover from that, so I'm going to hope it recovers from this too. If only to convince viewers that really, MOTORCYCLE JOUSTING IS AWESOME.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

The AV Club actually gave Sara a higher grade than The Calm, for what it's worth, and I agreed with that. Personally, aside from the frenetic pacing of The Calm, and aside from Sara's death in general and the framing of it (dumpster/freezer), I liked both of these episodes. I still found them both to be compelling, engaging hours of television, though they upset me and left me apprehensive about the handling of things going forward.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Some people can be stronger than they look. I can see Laurel being strong enough to pick Sara's body up. But this would be more than that. She would have to pick her up and put her in the car (assuming she doesn't want us to believe Laurel carried her all the way back to the lair) drive to the club, then lift her out of the car and carry her all the way down into the lair. Especially considering she has three arrows sticking out of her, which physically limits the ways she could be carried. Sad as it may be the dragging thing actually makes more sense.

The only thing that makes sense is Laurel hooking her arms under Sara's (Sara's back to Laurel's front) and Laurel pulling her (or dragging her) along while she walks backwards. It also explains why Laurel had blood all over her suit, since the back of Sara's head was bleeding.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

Popular online critics like Alan Sepinwall, Todd Vanderwerff, and Maureen Ryan have talked about being fans of the show (with the latter basically having written it a love letter after last year's finale), Grantland recently ran an article in praise of the show, and just about every article/review I've read on any of the recent onslaught of comic-book themed TV shows has pointed to Arrow as an example of how it can be done right.

 

I'm actually in agreement with all of those critics. My one beef with the show is the exact same they have [Laurel], and they all tend to highlight Team Arrow as their favorite part. But specially in S2, the majority of the pro-critics reacted to Laurel in either of two ways: by completely ignoring her, or pointing out that she's the show's weakest link. Just last week Sepinwall called Laurel a wet blanket on a Flash review. So yeah, I can surmise from Amell's uber competitive nature that he really really wants all parts of the show to be lauded by the critics. I can buy it that he's frustrated by the pro critic consensus being GREAT... BUT LAUREL.

Edited by dancingnancy
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poetgirl925

poetgirl925

The problem is that critics don't watch TV the same way that general audiences do. TV audiences have short attention spans and hundreds of channels to choose from. If it's true that Laurel is the weakest link to most viewers and critics alike, I suppose the question is whether or not Laurel's increased presence can poison the whole well, so to speak. Her increased presence was part of the reason I took a break from the show in season 2b, though to be fair there were a few other factors like the unravelling of the Slade storyline. But she was most of the reason I turned last week's episode off before I finished watching, waited a few days, and then finished it. I'm usually pretty good about watching even bad episodes of shows I like. The last time I turned off an episode in the middle was Scandal (when the weird torture scene happened between Quinn and that crazy dude) and I never turned it on again. Done. I'm not there with Arrow yet, but I feel apprehensive about watching episodes now. That's probably not what they're going for in audience reaction.

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AnalyzeAndCritique

AnalyzeAndCritique

Why, exactly? You're assuming that just because some people here have soured on Arrow it must mean that he has, which I think is a pretty big assumption. Especially when you consider that, from what I've seen actually, they're in the minority - the general media/critical consensus on the show is quite high and has been for awhile. Popular online critics like Alan Sepinwall, Todd Vanderwerff, and Maureen Ryan have talked about being fans of the show (with the latter basically having written it a love letter after last year's finale), Grantland recently ran an article in praise of the show, and just about every article/review I've read on any of the recent onslaught of comic-book themed TV shows has pointed to Arrow as an example of how it can be done right.

I'm not saying he has soured on the show. However, when he is given a script in which a capable and accepted Canary is killed to make way for a character who is ignored by most, it must take some wind out of his sails. As someone pointed out he wants the entire show to click. Laurel hasn't clicked a love interest, lawyer, friend, sister, or addict. The pasta they are throwing at the wall isn't sticking. 

 

I also don't think he's the only cast member who has thoughts on killing Sara. On a personal level they were friends with her, but these things happen on TV. On a professional level (especially from a storytelling standpoint) the show literally jumped off a cliff without a parachute. They threw a lot of faith and trust in a character who has already driven away viewers. Laurel is also the character who receives the most negative critical comments. I don't know, but given the answers in interviews there are some subtle signs.

 

The cast can't be ignorant of the thoughts from the fans and critics who shake their head at the decisions made on account of Laurel. They won't fix her by giving her a title of Black Canary. The only ones who seem ignorant are the writers. The house is on fire so let's get a life preserver. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

The cast can't be ignorant of the thoughts from the fans and critics who shake their head at the decisions made on account of Laurel. They won't fix her by giving her a title of Black Canary. The only ones who seem ignorant are the writers. The house is on fire so let's get a life preserver. 

 

@pootlus said something in the Bitterness Thread that I thought was both delightful and sad: fandom is having to fanwank real life to try and understand why this happening. Hence the theory that KC's contract says Laurel has to be Black Canary or else LITIGATION NATION! So fans are trying to find an out for the EPs, because it. doesn't. make. logical. sense. that they keep rebooting the one character that doesn't work -- per audience rejection and professional criticism alike -- so the most logical reason would be that they have to do it.

 

I'm not sure I completely buy that because I can also buy it that it's related to Kreisberg and Guggenheim's ego and them wanting to stick to their original plan. Also, their COMICS! background. But I surely get why so many fans are now convinced it's KC's contract.

 

 

There's one more thing about the positive pro criticism that I find interesting: Arrow is pretty much the first superhero show to get continuous praise from pro critics, and not just the longtime comic book fans like Sepinwall, or geeky sites like IGN and io9. More than the golden age of TV, this is the golden age of TV criticism, and Arrow is a low-brow pop culture superhero geek property that is reaching above niche critique. So the show getting all the praise is relevant both to the show and the genre culture as a whole.

 

And I think the EPs and Amell realize that it's bigger than Arrow, because they bring up over and over the Time magazine article, and also that Arrow is the first of the wave of superhero shows. So the criticism matters to them. The problem is they're apparently only absorbing the praise parts of critique, which is missing the point of, you know, accepting criticism.

Edited by dancingnancy
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