Deutschland 83 - General Discussion

[Ruby25]

Yeah- the only way I can see a second season storyline is if he somehow pretends to keep working for them, but is really allied with West Germany now. I don't know how realistic that would be, that they'd employ someone who was just revealed as a mole, but then he could keep the relationships he's established with the people there, which would make sense for the show to keep going.

 

I really love this show and I want a second season, so I hope that's what they do. But they'd have to flip him before he reveals to Lenore and everyone that his cover is blown, so I don't know if it's going to happen.

[paulvdb]

One thing I kept thinking about this episode was how due to the escalation of the mutual E/W suspicions, the introduction of the AIDS epidemic and the breakdown of various relationships under these stresses, the usual humor was missing.

Sometimes the humor doesn't translate in the subtitles. Like when Yvonne told Annette that she'd never been to East Germany. The subtitles translated what Yvonne meant to say, but the original German sentence could also be translated as "I've never seen anything from East Germany". Annette then gave her a look that said something like "That's what you think".

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SEASON FINALE!

 

At the East German Headquarters, fear of a pre-emptive nuclear strike against the West has become a very real possibility, while in the West, the nuclear war game “Able Archer” reaches its peak. A fallen agent, Martin is now persona non grata on both sides of the border. On his way back into the lion’s den to confront the top security at East German’s Foreign Arm of the Secret Service, he saves Yvonne from the clutches of Annett and the Secret Police in Germany. Ingrid hunts down Schweppenstette to save Thomas from prison. Alex confronts his own demons – about his sexuality, about AIDS and about his father. Finally, Martin has no choice but to sacrifice himself to stop the East German’s Secret Service from setting off a catastrophe of epic proportions.

[Snarklepuss]

Yeah- the only way I can see a second season storyline is if he somehow pretends to keep working for them, but is really allied with West Germany now. I don't know how realistic that would be, that they'd employ someone who was just revealed as a mole, but then he could keep the relationships he's established with the people there, which would make sense for the show to keep going.

 

I'm hoping they realize he's more valuable working for them than worrying about his loyalty, plus if he's captured and has the threat of incarceration over his head he may tell them he's decided to switch sides.  The fact that he tried to warn them might help to convince them that he can be put to work for their interests.

[revbfc]

I spit a fizzy beverage out of my nostrils when I realized the U.S. general's name was ARNOLD Jackson.

Edited July 31, 2015 by revbfc

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Mr. EB started making Diff'rent Strokes jokes as soon as he realized that too which made all the scenes at Lola's hilarious at our house. From the moment that Alec burst into his room, it was nonstop "Whatchoo talkin' about?" every time one of them spoke. Nothing like flashbacks to 80s sitcoms to lighten a kidnapping scene!

Edited August 1, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[albaniantv]

Just had this sinking realization I might miss the finale, traveling next week and not sure if my brother has Sundance. Hope Sundance rebroadcasts the whole series during August to try and up the numbers watching. 

[Snarklepuss]

Oh, that sucks, albaniantv!  Thank goodness I have "On Demand" - If not for that I'd have to watch it in standard definition as Comcast doesn't show Sundance in HD.

[Primetimer]

What if the German spy series took us through every year of the '80s?

Read the story

[FoundTime]

I'm catching up On Demand so am a little late to the discussion but I was wondering too whether I missed what the connection was between Martin's mother and Thomas.

 

Loving this show. Besides Hannibal and Mr. Robot, it's the only summer show that's keeping me intellectually engaged and has an interesting sense of style to boot. If Sundance keeps this up (The Honorable Woman last year), they're going to start having a reputation for go-to quality television during the summer.

[Kat]

I love this so much, I don't even know what to do.

"After meeting Rob and Fab at a disco, Moritz hires them to be the public face of...Milli Vanilli."

HEE!

[MarkBlankenship]

Yay! I'm so glad you made it to the end of that little tale. Writing it brought me more joy than I should admit in polite society.

[Flamingo]

This is fantastic. The music choices are spot on. I kind of had a tinge of nostalgia for Milli Vanilli at the end.

[MissLucas]

Well rumor has it the creators have plans for Deutschland 86 and Deutschland 89, so maybe some of this will come true.

[Actionmage]

In addition to enjoying your music picks and your arc for Moritz, I loved the picture at the top of the piece!  I needed a good laugh and there Axel ( and you) were there to help. *g*

 

In addition to the EHG and other article(s), I may end up binging on this. It sounds like a good show.

[MarkBlankenship]

Hi Actionmage... It's VERY bingeworthy!

MissLucas... I hadn't heard that, but that's so exciting! God willing, Milli Vanilli will make the cut.

[wanderingstar]

This is gold! Thank you!

[Primetimer]

Mark Blankenship and John Ramos discuss!

Read the story

[wanderingstar]

I hope Alex didn't shoot himself or his daddy. I really came to love the Alex character.

 

So, it's confirmed that Schweppenstette is Martin's father, but does he know, and does this mean I can call him Spy Daddy now?

 

Annett's little snitch ass can have all the seats. Ingrid reading her was extremely satisfying.

 

Shout out to Fuchs - Schweppenstette's officemate/antagonist. I love - and can relate to - his world weary look.

 

Tischbier's as shady as they come, but I believed he was genuine in his concern for Felix.

 

Also, I loved how Lenora was like "Deuces!" packed up her shit and left with her man. 
 

They set up a lot of cliffhangers, but will we get a season 2?

Edited August 6, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[stanleyk]

I hope we get a Season 2, but I'm not sure where they'd go with it. Martin is trusted by no one so some kind of double or triple agent thing won't be happening. I'd be fine with following another character, but vote against Annett. She's just too dense and naive to resist all the Kool-Aid she's ingested, so I'm not sure they could take her anywhere very interesting, nor is she smart enough to do real spy stuff. If what she's already seen and done hasn't caused her to question anything or see shades of gray (and I don't think it has), I don't know what would.

On the cliffhanger gunshot, I thought it was Edel Senior. The earlier scene where it takes him forever to get out of his car and then he lingers in the garage pretty clearly telegraphed suicidal thoughts, though perhaps it was a red herring. But his wife left him (and hates him), his surrogate son is a spy, his actual son has left the military (and also hates him), and he at least thinks his daughter might be a spy (who maybe hates him). While somewhat out of character for him to commit suicide, that's a pretty bad set of circumstances for a NATO general. Plus his fish died. His fish!

Questions: when Alex teared up during questioning, was it because he felt betrayed by Martin, because he did actually bumble his way into trying to spy for East Germany and got some poor prostie killed, because he realized how close he came to getting caught doing same, because he was afraid of his AIDS test? Or all of the above in just general recognition that everything was just all fucked up?

And with Yvonne...are we supposed to see her as just an overall free spirit trying to escape her family by any means? Because she spent most of the season living as part of some kind of peacenik commune/cult, but then suddenly she was singing back-up, dressed like she was in a Whitesnake video, and acting like a party girl. Are we to attribute this sudden shift as part of her flinging herself about in various acts of rebellion? It just seemed a very sudden change in approach and pretty different behavior.

Edited August 6, 2015 by stanleyk

[paulvdb]

So, it's confirmed that Schweppenstette is Martin's father, but does he know, and does this mean I can call him Spy Daddy now?

Yes, he knows. But the translater failed to translate that bit of information in the subtitles and thus kept the identity of Martin's father from the viewers for longer than necessary (except of course the viewers who understand German). In Ingrid's conversation with Schweppenstette she says that Schweppenstette should explain the situation to her sister and son. The subtitles translate Schweppenstette's reaction as "Leave Martin out of this." But in the original German he says "our boy" instead of Martin.

[revbfc]

I'm pretty certain Martin will be in Season 2 (if there is one). He may not be in the field, but he has the trust of Moscow. The mere fact that he's not in a DDR prison is proof that he's going to thrive.

Edited August 7, 2015 by revbfc

[TimWil]

I just don't see this as having a Season 2 unless there's a time jump-perhaps to November 1989?

[Kat]

 

hope we get a Season 2, but I'm not sure where they'd go with it.

This is how I'm feeling now. I love Martin and I've loved this entire series, but I'm having a hard time imagining where the story will go from here. I'm ready for the journey, either way.

 

And after traveling through Germany last month for a couple of weeks, and hearing Mark Blankenship talk about it on EHG, I too have decided to brush up on my basic-level German.

 

I'm off to listen to my Deutschland 83 Spotify playlist now!

[MarkBlankenship]

Kat! Let's make it a goal to be discussing season 2 IN GERMAN.

[Snarklepuss]

It's too bad they didn't try for some double agent angle for Martin but I hope they find another one so he can continue as the main character.  I just hope they don't make him a lesser character.  They left enough cliff hangers and loose ends for there to be plenty of material to work with, though.  I can't imagine what they'll do with him but I'm hoping they're far more creative than I am about that.

 

I have appreciated the realism in this show but in 1983 I don't think they had a test yet for HIV.  It was realistic to show the nurse saying that everyone who gets it dies, though, because I don't think they knew back then that some people carried the virus but never displayed symptoms.

 

I too thought the cliffhanger gunshot was Edel senior but I'm hoping it was no one or the gun misfired as I don't want to see him or his son gone from this show.

 

 

And with Yvonne...are we supposed to see her as just an overall free spirit trying to escape her family by any means? Because she spent most of the season living as part of some kind of peacenik commune/cult, but then suddenly she was singing back-up, dressed like she was in a Whitesnake video, and acting like a party girl. Are we to attribute this sudden shift as part of her flinging herself about in various acts of rebellion? It just seemed a very sudden change in approach and pretty different behavior.

 

I know, I wondered the same thing - She didn't even look like her at the end.  To me that's another loose end that wasn't explained that I hope will be pursued in a second season.

[Ruby25]

Yeah, I feel like they left too many loose ends for these characters not to come back to them in a second season, and I love Martin as the lead, so I'd really like to see what happens with him. But I guess they burned the possibility of him becoming a double agent, so I have no idea what they could do with him now. Maybe he decides to smuggle he and his mother to the West and strikes some kind of a deal with them or something? I don't know- I guess he can't be trusted by the East now either.

[AllyB]

The plan is for this to be the first part of a trilogy, the next part would be Deutschland 86 and the last would be Deutschland 89. It all depends on how it fares when it airs on RTL in Germany later this year.

 

Personally I felt the series was too short. It had too much plot to fit in 8 episodes. A lot of Martin's motivational changes happened out of nowhere, as did Yvonne's as has been pointed out in this thread. A 13 episode series would probably have better served the story and allowed the audience to understand why the characters changed the way they did.

[Snarklepuss]

The plan is for this to be the first part of a trilogy, the next part would be Deutschland 86 and the last would be Deutschland 89. It all depends on how it fares when it airs on RTL in Germany later this year.

 

Personally I felt the series was too short. It had too much plot to fit in 8 episodes. A lot of Martin's motivational changes happened out of nowhere, as did Yvonne's as has been pointed out in this thread. A 13 episode series would probably have better served the story and allowed the audience to understand why the characters changed the way they did.

 

Where did you hear that it was planned as a trilogy?

 

I agree about the season being too short - It even seems like they truncated some of the plot to squish it into a smaller timeframe than originally intended.  What amazes me is that in spite of that the show is still that good.

[MissLucas]

The trilogy plans have been mentioned by the creators in some interviews. Whether they can pull this off or not depends entirely on the show's sucess on the German market.

[plurie]

I have appreciated the realism in this show but in 1983 I don't think they had a test yet for HIV.  It was realistic to show the nurse saying that everyone who gets it dies, though, because I don't think they knew back then that some people carried the virus but never displayed symptoms.

There was no test for HIV in 1983, but AIDS was diagnosed by the ratio of helper (CD4) to suppressor (CD8) T cells. I doubt that the "test" that Alex took would have been positive so early. He's asymptomatic (as far as we know), so his T cells counts are probably normal.

 

HIV wasn't discovered until May ("LAV" discovery by Montagnier) or November ("HTLV-3" discovery by Gallo) of 1983. The joint announcement that they were the same virus and the cause of AIDS didn't come until 1984. The blood test wasn't licensed in the US until 1985. (See https://www.aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/hiv-aids-101/aids-timeline/).

 

I was in medical school from 1982-1986, when all of this was happening.

[revbfc]

The AIDS mistakes do seem distracting to me. I was 10 in 1983, and all I heard about the disease were from these sources:

-Eddie Murphy (not helpful)

-News (informative, but also fed into scaremongering)

-Doctor friends of my parents (blunt talk about safer sex practices with 10-year-olds may seem inappropriate, but it made an impression on me when I finally got to have sex...7 years later)

Point is that for all the show gets right, it failed on this front.

Edited August 14, 2015 by revbfc

[Snarklepuss]

I was 25 in 1983, so imagine how distracting it is for me!  Actually, I remember hearing about the disease back then as being almost completely confined to the gay community and drug addicts who shared needles.  Most people in New York in my age bracket didn't start worrying about it until later in the decade when known cases were spreading to heteros as well.  The "sexual revolution" was still going strong at the time and it felt like a cruel blow to a lot of people, as I remember.  I was married by this time so I didn't worry so much but I had friends who did and I remember AIDS being one of the major "cooling off" factors for the wild ride of the sexual revolution.

[MissLucas]

I think I was about 12 or 13 in when I read first in a German newspaper (the Stern) about a strange lethal disease affecting homosexuals that seemed to be highly contagious - it was in the early 80's and I do remember trying to be all 'adult' about it. 'Oh typical - the media scare-mongering.'

 

Here's the actual Spiegel article Frau Edel was reading, dating 6/6/1983. It states that 100 cases are at the moment known in Germany, 7 people have already died. The article predicts a rapid increase in the numbers of patients and it mentions a virus as prime suspect for the disease. The article also deals with the question why the disease seems to affect mostly homosexuals. That makes Frau Edel's ruse somewhat unlikely or at least out of character. 

 

However the article also mentions that there's no test yet available and the diagnosis can only be made once a patient has reached second stage symptoms (like Tischbier's lover). So Alex having his blood tested was a bit of artistic licence.

[wmdekooning]

General Arnold Jackson: "Meine Frau ist deutsch! Meine Kinder sind Deutsche!"

[Eire]

I don't think it's a matter of her thinking he would be a good spy. I think she just thought he would pass as the other guy. The show didn't do a very good job of seeing that up, though.

In the scene where he's interviewed by his aunt and the two secret service agents, they are asking him some telling questions.

He plays chess, follows German football and speaks English. The chess and football must be interests of the General. His only fault is that he doesn't play the piano.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Eire

[FoundTime]

gpgurl50:

Things are getting tense!  I love it.  I don't know what outcome Martin was realistically expecting.  I guess he wasn't really thinking.

 

 

One of the things I think this show has really demonstrated (unlike other similar shows) is that when you are using young men like Martin and Alex, there's going to be a lot of impulsive thinking and behavior that might not be in the best interest of your cause ;-)

[albaniantv]

I miss this show; need another intrigue to dive into. Masters of Sex just tanked and I tried but failed to engage with some recommended others this summer. Maybe I will try House of Cards even though i can't believe it can hold up to the Brit version.

[wanderingstar]

MIPCOM: Hulu Takes 'Deutschland '83' (Exclusive)

[revbfc]

Well it sucks that I have to get a Hulu account now. Glad the rest of the world likes this show enough that we'll get more though.

[Snarklepuss]

I don't understand.  Does that mean Hulu has exclusive broadcast rights or just exclusive streaming rights?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

It looks like streaming rights in the US.

[Snarklepuss]

So does that mean the show will still be broadcast on Sundance?

[bad things are bad]

Interesting how Martin could get into East Germany so easily...the border was set up to keep people IN, not out, for the most part.

[mrspidey]

Premiering right now in Germany. Why exactly do we get our own show after it has already aired overseas??

Edited November 26, 2015 by mrspidey

[Snarklepuss]

Premiering right now in Germany. Why exactly do we get our own show after it has already aired overseas??

 

It's actually a co-production between an American network (Sundance TV) and RTL, which might explain how Sundance aired it in the US first.  Not sure why it took so long to come to Germany, though.

[wanderingstar]

'Deutschland 83' Debuts to So-So Ratings in Germany

 

'Deutschland 83' Slips in German Ratings

 

Not feeling too positive about a season 2 after reading these.

[MissLucas]

Lots of hand-wringing in the German press about the low ratings: blaming the ad campaign or RTL's reputation (i.e. people don't expect high quality from them), geopolitics and the audience's general lack for historical topics (I find that lost one arguable). But the most obvious cause is simply the programming slot: the show runs against 'The Voice of Germany'. If I've learned anything from following US ratings it's that you don't put a new show up against 'The Voice'.

Additional factors: people really interested in the subject matter have already seen the show (where there's a will there's a way) and are watchting 'Occupied' that runs in the same time-slot on Arte.

[Snarklepuss]

Are the ratings really that low or passing but just not up to par with what was expected considering all the hype?  I'm not clear on that because of the way it was worded.

[MissLucas]

The most worrying thing seems to be the constant drop in the ratings (note: they air two episodes back to back):

pilot - 3.19 million (9.9), episode 2 - 2.86 million

episode 3 - 2.05 million (6.7), episode 4 - 1.96 million (6.5)

I don't know what they expected in the ratings but considering that Alarm für Cobra 1 (probably their most successful home-made show but far from getting any critical acclaim outside the Taurus awards) is still holding an average of 2.5 million RTL can't be happy.

Edited December 6, 2015 by MissLucas