Season Three Discussion

[kathe5133]

I like it. I like all of the characters. Piper annoys, but I think she is supposed to. Too bad we have to wait a year for season 4. It is an unpleasant trend with all the shows. If we didn't wait and found other pursuits, most likely the networks would stop. But, the shows are good and I guess "watching TV" as changed into something different. Oh well, on to "Grace and Frankie"!

[lion10]

Oh well, on to "Grace and Frankie"!

 

Is that show good?

[Nanrad]

Caputo is great; I love him because he does truly care about everyone at the prison, but he's put in a tough spot because he has no power outside of the prison. Well, now he will and he can help but he can only do so much, and now his guards up and left. It disappoints me because I wonder if they have any idea on how much he's fought for them and how the business side of the prison system works. Clearly not, because they dumped him like a hot potato when he got that promotion, but it was to help them. 

Right, and this is what bothers me. They were upset with him for not telling them that the prison was closing down, which IS understandable, but Caputo was trying to figure out how to save the prison. Then he saved their jobs, but unfortunately, their hours were cut. They started talking about unionizing, but didn't have a fucking clue as to what to do, which Caputo then gave them some words of advice. During this whole time, they never truly thanked him. They bitched at him, and then liked him when he was doing something for him, all the while Caputo is stressed out trying to give his workers stability/benefits and make sure that the prisoners are adequately taken care of. And like someone else mentioned, it has been remarked upon how well run Litchfield was, despite inadequate support. I couldn't blame him for taking that position as Fig suggested. Knowing Caputo, he would still try to help even though him leaving was just supposed to be for his best interests. It's one of the reasons I can't buy someone saying that Caputo just does things for the reward/attention. Most of the shit he does, isn't rewarded and/or stresses him out, I believe he got an ulcer or was on the one to having one, because he is genuinely trying to help people. He just wants to feel appreciated. 

 

Healy is still a horrible human being. Getting Birdie fired (?) for being a much better councellor than him is just more proof of what a vindictive little man he is. Stay away from Red!

[...]

I felt for Soso this year. Good character development there, she was getting on my nerves so bad last season. Hope she gets with Poussey, they'd make sense together - even tough I didn't see it coming at all.

 

Soso annoyed me last year as well, but her depression was very palpable and I'm glad she read Healy for the filth. Healy doesn't care about helping those girls, he cares about believing himself to be a caring, helpful person. He didn't get Berdie suspended for just being better, but how much her effectiveness highlighted his ineffectiveness as a counselor. There was also a racial, misogynist angle behind it as well. Overall, Healy wants to feel needed and treated as an all knowing authority figure in his position.

 

Many characters which I disliked before like Penn and Black Cindy were given these ham fisted redemption arcs that were hard to swallow. Cindy's desire for conversion had always been about the better tasting frozen Kosher meals. I know many were moved that ostensible desire to "find her people" at the very end but I was neither sold on the writing or the performance of that scene. We were never given any prior indicators that she was truly identifying with the prevailing philosophies of Judaism. All we got was that afterthought of a flashback in the finale which showed how her father's (was it?) Christian ideas of fire and brimstone were foisted upon her for being an undisciplined glutton.

During Cindy's journey to get kosher meals, she subconsciously identified with certain beliefs of Judaism. She didn't realize this until she was questioned by the Rabbi. It was clear that Cindy didn't and doesn't have it all figured out, but what she did learn struck a cord with her and gave her a sense of purpose that she hadn't had before. I don't know your spiritual beliefs or if you have any, but I know many people, which Cindy vocalized, have an issue with the whole mantra of good go to heaven, bad go to hell and admit to your sins and be forgiven. It's too simplistic and a cop out for some. There are some Christians who take issue if you question God or your faith, BUT some people have issue with believing in something they can't question. Cindy connects better to questioning what it means to believe and accountability for her actions, the world, etc rather than expecting God to fix everything. So, long story short, I bought it. As a Christian, those ideas appealed to me, but luckily, I didn't have her shitty background regarding my faith.

[snowblossom2]

When Daya asked Capote about Bennet, didn't C say he got rid of him?

[Nanrad]

Snow, no, I believe that Bennett dipped. Caputo said something along the lines of, 'if you haven't seen him, that means he left' (I think it was implied that he never spoke to Bennett).

[lovemytvshows]

Randomized thoughts and questions about Season 3:

 

• Was there ever an official explanation either from the showrunners or NL herself about Nicky's short short season arc? Are we supposed to take it as Nicky being written off permanently or was it just a long-drawn out plot device and Nicky will be back in S4? She was definitely missed.

 

• I must be one of the very very few who actually likes Alex. She has been my favourite character since S1 and I have no apologies for it. I started out as a Vauseman shipper but that died off pretty quickly (by S2) once Piper started to become insufferable (to me at least, YMMV). That said, it does seem that Alex's arc revolves exclusively around Piper, with the odd "Risk of getting shiv-ed by Kubra's hitman" this season. I'm hoping the back and forth with Piper ends in S4. I would like to see Laura Prepon tackle a more substantial character arc in S4 and I think she is up to it, and that will also allow her to interact with other characters instead of the bulk of her screen-time being shared with Taylor Schilling. 

 

• Count me in as someone who does not see any appeal with regards to Ruby Rose/Stella. Her character served no purpose other than to be a very flimsy "drive a wedge between Alex/Piper" plot device, as well as showcasing how "badass" (Ha! No.) Piper became at the end of S3 

 

• Crazy Eyes continues to be consistently entertaining.

 

• Did not care about any of the "Spanish Harlem" storylines but then again YMMV

 

S4 wishlist:

 

• More Crazy Eyes and her writing/fan-fic/rabid fans
• I did like Lolly and her crazy conspiracies and would like to see more interactions between her and Alex
• More Morello!
• Alex having a better arc and not getting bogged down in the same old Piper drama
• Would like to see Pornstache back. Pablo Schreiber is entertaining as hell in the role
• Would be nice if they could incorporate the recent passing of gay marriage laws in the US into the show, like a mention of it somewhere

[snowblossom2]

Snow, no, I believe that Bennett dipped. Caputo said something along the lines of, 'if you haven't seen him, that means he left' (I think it was implied that he never spoke to Bennett).

Ah, thanks! I couldn't hear exactly what he said and that makes sense

I would feel fine if Alex is really dead bc I think her arc has played out and it will be what causes Piper to realize she's not as bad ass as she thought and will be filled with guilt for not believing Alex

[lovemytvshows]

There was plenty of talk about Prepon's coming and goings between seasons.

This. I am feeling Nicky's loss this season as opposed to say one of the Spanish harlem girls. But that's just me and only because I find Nicky a more compelling and hilarious character than those girls. I also liked her interactions in past seasons with Morello, Red, Piper and Alex, and was hoping for more of that in S3.

[lovemytvshows]

Lyonne, Schilling and Prepon (and Biggs, I guess), were the only ones I knew of prior to watching the show. And as such, I wrongly (?) assumed that the 3 ladies would be given main starring roles but we've seen that to be a bit shaky with Prepon at the end of S1 and now with Lyonne.

 

Side note: I've been watching That '70s Show reruns (having never watched it at all) and good lord! You (well me in this instance) would think that Prepon was a completely different actress! I found her work in OITNB to be leaps and bounds better than That '70s Show (which is a painfully unfunny sitcom, so so bad...)

[OrangeCrush]

Season 3 as a whole was rather boring and quite a let down. The over use of back stories when they served no other purpose than to take up time  illustrated classic LAZY WRITING!
Yes, Daya’s mother was a horrible parent/person but how many times do we need to see it. How did showing us Bennett dancing in Afghanistan advance the story? No one went to Alex’s mother’s funeral including Piper. I could go on and on. The back stories became gimmicks this season because the writers were unable to develop a consistent plot for the season because they abandon thier central core character, Piper.  So when they were short on story, they just threw in little flashbacks that were pointless in many cases.
There was no arc this season. Piper’s business and the entire Piper/Alex/panty business arcs felt like there had been more filmed just it didn’t make it to the final cut. Anyone notice that their story went from A to B to G to M with a lot of story left for us to figure out what happened or how they got to where they ended up? It made little sense.
I realize this will be an unpopular statement but when Jenji ditched Piper’s story as the central arc, the series began floundering season to subsequent season. Everyone loved Season 1, even if they complained about Piper and hated Larry, Season 2 came along and it was all over the place with the heavy handed over play of Vee and a much reduced Piper arc although initially raved about by critics after seeing only three episodes, the ending consensus was that Season 3 was plagued with uneven writing and underused characters already established. Then we were given Season 3. No central story unless you can call the cult following the central story when the leader of that cult/story line has no FUCKING LINES!!!! That was so boring it wasn’t even snooze worthy.
Jenji has managed to take a really get story and fuck it up again. It is no wonder she was run out of network TV, then cable, then premium and ended up at Netflix. Sure she has a new project at HBO but she isn’t the show-runner.  HBO has someone else show running her new project she is just the creator and Exec. Prod.

[tennisgurl]

I am trying to get through season 3, and while I`m basically enjoying it, I`m finding it hard to binge this season. It does not help that i was basically spoiled on most everything that was going to happen by reviews and the internet at large, and things don't sound like they are going to pick up much. 

 

I don't dislike this season so far, it just seems...off. 

[Chaos Theory]

Season 3 as a whole was rather boring and quite a let down. The over use of back stories when they served no other purpose than to take up time illustrated classic LAZY WRITING!

Yes, Daya’s mother was a horrible parent/person but how many times do we need to see it. How did showing us Bennett dancing in Afghanistan advance the story? No one went to Alex’s mother’s funeral including Piper. I could go on and on. The back stories became gimmicks this season because the writers were unable to develop a consistent plot for the season because they abandon thier central core character, Piper. So when they were short on story, they just threw in little flashbacks that were pointless in many cases.

There was no arc this season. Piper’s business and the entire Piper/Alex/panty business arcs felt like there had been more filmed just it didn’t make it to the final cut. Anyone notice that their story went from A to B to G to M with a lot of story left for us to figure out what happened or how they got to where they ended up? It made little sense.

I realize this will be an unpopular statement but when Jenji ditched Piper’s story as the central arc, the series began floundering season to subsequent season. Everyone loved Season 1, even if they complained about Piper and hated Larry, Season 2 came along and it was all over the place with the heavy handed over play of Vee and a much reduced Piper arc although initially raved about by critics after seeing only three episodes, the ending consensus was that Season 3 was plagued with uneven writing and underused characters already established. Then we were given Season 3. No central story unless you can call the cult following the central story when the leader of that cult/story line has no FUCKING LINES!!!! That was so boring it wasn’t even snooze worthy.

Jenji has managed to take a really get story and fuck it up again. It is no wonder she was run out of network TV, then cable, then premium and ended up at Netflix. Sure she has a new project at HBO but she isn’t the show-runner. HBO has someone else show running her new project she is just the creator and Exec. Prod.

While I agree with you that it was a mistake removing Piper as focus or focal point of the show I disagree with you about the rest. I thought the back stories were all very well done and interesting. None of them told us anything new but for the most part back stories aren't supposed to. They are supposed to reinforce what we already know. Bennett's back story reinforced that his relationship with Daya would never have worked regardless of circumstance. Boo's backstory reinforced that she could never be anything but who she was. Alex's back story simply showed that she had no one besides Piper in her life as a real friend. Tucky's showed that she really didn't have much of a chance.Nicky's back story showed that even though she had an ineffective mother she was in the end responsible for her own problems and addictions. No one else but Nicky. None of this is new info but it is information we needed to see. Edited June 30, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[DianeDobbler]

I don't think it was a mistake to remove Piper, just that the story she did have was lacking. I actually think her business is brilliant (if I don't scrutinize too closely) but I hate talking about it or hearing about it, which is a problem. Great business idea, don't want to know about it, please shut up. They used the story to show something about Piper's psychological evolution, but the straddle between comedy and drama was kind of ineffective. IMO her rally the troops speech on the picnic table laid an egg. Can't really fault the performance, and I get the idea, but it didn't fly. Alongside the super quirkiness of Piper's new enterprise, you have Alex possibly whacked by her drug kingpin and Prepon trying to play that terror with some authenticity. The material didn't mesh. I can't think of what it needed to work, as the premise of it all seems okay, but I don't think the problem was Piper's lack of centrality. They also tried to play some sort of chemical attraction from Piper to Stella, with an "out" that Piper was possibly reacting to Alexis's rejection, but Stella didn't work.

 

I thought the material for the non-Piper inmates was pretty strong, including the flashbacks, although I enjoyed following present-day Chang around the prison more than I liked her backstory. I thought the present-day stuff was fantastic. Loved Time Hump chronicles, and poor Soso's depression and rescue by the black crew. I thought that given more airtime, Boo and Doggett could have been the emotional anchor of this season. I liked Boo's backstory, but upon reflection, we saw that she was 42 years old when her mother died, and as far as we were shown, she hadn't been in trouble with the law at that point. Seems like she got into the system pretty late in life - wonder what she did. It does make me think of her as less dysfunctional, lawbreaking, getting along in the real-world-wise, than some of the other inmates.

Edited July 1, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[KatWay]

I do agree that the clash between Schilling's quirky, over the top comedic Piper and Prepon's genuinely terrified and lost Alex was a big problem. Their storylines just didn't belong together in the least and for me it really ruined Piper as a character. I liked her before, even when she had her selfish, stupid moments, but she just came across as a narcissistic brat this season.

[DianeDobbler]

Looked up prison commissary and found this:

 

Although commissaries exist to limit crime within the facilities, Rose said officers are always vigilant to be sure the products purchased are used only for their intended purposes.  ""If (an inmate) bought 20 cans of soup today and another 20 tomorrow, it would be confiscated," Rose said. "We make sure they're not storing it or trading it with other inmates for any reason."

 

 

That suggests Piper's volume purchase of all the flavor packets would trigger an alert that she's using them for the exact purpose she was using them, and they would have been confiscated.

 

I've only seen bits and pieces of That 70s Show, enough to get the idea that Mila Kunis probably the most entertaining of the (four + Wilmer Valderrama?) cast members, although none of it held me more than less than a minute. It wasn't for me. But now that I look back, I realize that I never saw more than one second of Laura Prepon, because every time she spoke, I'd bail. I don't recall her being annoying or anything, just that she seemed so completely devoid of any charisma, personality or ability that I didn't see the point. On occasion I wondered how she'd gotten the part and kept the job. Ashton Kutchner was annoying, and as I said, the show wasn't my thing, but I could see what he was doing there. When I saw OITNB, to me Prepon was effective enough that I thought I must have been too quick-triggered in my channel-changing and if I'd stuck around I'd have seen she had more to offer. Now I realize my first impression must have been accurate and she's just improved.

Edited July 1, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[Chaos Theory]

That's another thing that's been bugging me - even if there weren't rules about inmates hoarding commissary items, were we really to believe after the first time she bought the inventory out that she was able to repeat the feat every single time?

The more I look at the season and how poorly details and plots are managed, the more I hate it in retrospect. Admittedly, though, the same happened with season two. Just about the only thing the show gets right is dialogue and casting (except for Ruby Rose). Little else holds up to scrutiny.

Actually that's a detail that I thought was kinda clever. A well run prison would have called her on it but the privately own prison wouldn't allow time to properly train guards on simple procedure. These are badly untrained guards so yeah I will let Pipers food thing go as getting away with something she wouldn't have if mom and dad weren't fighting.

Things hold up as a whole when you include the rest of it. Pipers antics work because the guards weren't paying attention because they were untrained or had their own problems. Etc etc.

I think this season doesn't hold up if you are a tree person but it does if you are a forest person. If that makes any sense.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[Chaos Theory]

Oh I think the series if fine if you don't mind that they selectively pick when to be realistic (i.e., let's live every day of Daya's pregnancy) and when to be ridiculously divorced from reality (a rabbi telling a woman she's Jewish after a couple of weeks of studying Woody Allen movies).

 

 

But isn't that with most television though?  I don't mean to cause a fight but I tend to call it television reality.  Anyone who wants reality reality on tv will always be annoyed or disappointed.  Television takes a topic and takes it to the worst possible extremes or best possible outcome depending on the show.  Now mind you I didn't care for the Jewish conversion/getting better food story myself and thought it was the weakest storyline in the show but then that is mainly due to the fact that Black Cindy is the only character on the show that I actively dislike.  

 

I meant it doesn't hold up from an inmate perspective. If they know one person previously bought out the stash, others will double-down to make sure they're on top of it the next time. I wasn't even considering the guards in my thoughts - it's the inmates who aren't going to be down with Piper's baloney.

 

 

 

But they have to wait until the the new stash come in which means Piper is the only game in town unless they want to eat crappy food.  After that she was paying them in cash.  All she needed was an in and the food was that.  It was a clever idea and it worked and wasn't meant to be a long term one.  

[possibilities]

After seeing Piper plant contraband in Stella's bunk, I started to wonder why there wasn't an epidemic of stealing supplies or planting contraband. Security is extremely minimal, the bunks are not really watched over by guards, they don't even have security cameras, and it just really seems amazing that there are not more incidents of the inmates taking advantage of this to get revenge or otherwise sow chaos. I think a group of college students would be less trustworthy in a similarly configured situation.

However, as far as accuracy of TV shows is concerned, it's a rare TV show I think holds up to scrutiny. OITNB is less unrealistic than some.

[erkiefresh]

Hi everyone. I'm glad to see most of you have enjoyed OITNB Season 3. I wrote an article about Season 3, its handling of male characters, and how I think it's the best season yet. I hope you'll check it out. I'd love your feedback. http://www.fortfuego.com/new-blog-1/2015/6/29/how-orange-is-the-new-black-solved-its-male-character-problem-and-gave-us-its-best-season-yet

[Cherpumple]

I’ve already rewatched season 3, and I have to say that the second time around I saw a more natural progression of the various storylines and more cohesion, which made me appreciate the season more overall. I guess I'm a "forest" person in this regard.

 

- I liked the recurring theme of parenting and the focus on relationships between the inmates and their parents (especially mothers) and/or their children. The vast majority of flashbacks included this theme, as did several of the current stories, which showed the difficulties of parenting from prison (Gloria, Sophia, Maria, Daya). I liked the array of issues they showed in this regard.

 

- Another theme I liked was the inmates’ attitudes towards their release dates. Red took a fairly zen approach and focused on staying active but also cleaning up her act in prison and preparing for life on the outside (divorcing her husband). Piper went the opposite way and took a high-risk route in order to gain some financial security. Stella straight-up panicked and stole from Piper. They addressed this a little in S1 with Taystee coming back to prison, but it was good to see the different perspectives.

 

- The Norma storyline didn’t thrill or bother me either time I watched, but the second time I noticed how closely her own cult mirrored her pre-prison life. Both situations seemed to start with a group of like-minded people searching for belonging, but quickly got corrupted by the hubris of the leader (in the former case the leader became a dictator, in the latter Norma let her followers get away with awful behaviour because she wanted their admiration). Then both groups lost followers who had become disillusioned, until finally each cult leader turned on their most ardent supporter. My main quibble with this whole thing is that I had a difficult time actually reading Norma. Even seconds before she killed her “husband” she seemed ready to follow him forever, so did she regret pushing him? And even though she was annoyed by some of her own followers at times, she barely lifted a finger to curb their abuses. I can’t tell if she’s naïve, weak-willed, just likes feeling special, or something else. I think they could have done more to show her inner thoughts.

 

I also noticed some tiny details that I missed or didn’t appreciate the first time and made me laugh:

 

- Janae gave herself tiny earlocks for her Jewish authentication interview.

 

- The scene between Pornstache and his mother is even funnier the second time: his dewy eyes fresh from crying, the way he keeps calling her “mommy”, her WTF look when he says “I wasn’t a rapist…with her” and the way he insisted “we made the love”.

 

- Poussey accusing Taystee of faking all of her stories in AA, which made me remember the ridiculous story she told many episodes ago in AA about waking up in a car covered in BBQ sauce or something. Gotta love that continuity!

 

- Maria named her daughter Pepa because “Push It” is her and Yadreal’s song. I had to pause the show at this point because I was laughing too hard to continue.

 

- We finally saw the infamous Danita’s handiwork in the form of Taystee’s awful weave. Sophia was so right about her!

 

- Healy is officially the squarest man in the world- he attended Woodstock (or “a concert upstate”) as a 10 year old boy and doesn’t know or care how awesome that is.

 

Thoughts for season 4:

 

- Does the combination of minimum and maximum security inmates average out to create a medium security facility, or will the two sections be separated and have different rules/restrictions?

 

- Although it would be believable that Alex met her end in the greenhouse, her final scene in season 3 was ambiguous enough to allow for other possibilities, such as Kubra wanting her to sell drugs in prison or asking her to kill another inmate, in exchange for her life. Not sure which outcome I want to see.

 

- I think they need to rethink the use of flashbacks and what purpose they want them to serve moving forward. At this point we have the main backstories of the principal characters, so they either need to reduce the number of flashbacks overall to focus on the present day, delve into the secondary characters more (like Chang), which can be fun, but not too pertinent to the plot, or do what the did in the first and last episodes of S3 which showed a variety of short flashes for multiple people centred around a theme (motherhood and religion in these cases). I wasn’t a huge fan of the last method, since those short snippets seemed either redundant to what we already knew (was ANYONE surprised that Morello was more focused on her white frilly First Communion dress than on the sacrament itself?) or too WTF (Janae raised in the Nation of Islam and Healy’s bizarre upbringing) to really know what they were trying to tell us.

 

- Please please please show Cesar and Pornstache in prison together! At least once to see the tiny gears in Pornstache’s brain working to put the whole sorted Daya/Bennett/baby story together. That would be comedy gold for me!

 

ETA: I normally love the music choice over the ending credits, but "I Want to Know What Love Is" on the final episode did NOT work for me. 

Edited July 2, 2015 by Cherpumple

[AndyP]

Hi, i've just spent the last few weeks of my life watching the entire three seasons OITNB on Netflix, and now i'm absolutely gutted that this is over..!!! I very rarely "get into" any sort of series, as they usually get boring and become somewhat monotonous, but Jenji Kohan (and the script writers) are absolute genius' .!! And i mean a GENIUS!!! The cast and storyline were beyond perfection..!!! All this may sound a bit strange coming from a 50 year old male but i really do hope there is a season 4..!!! 

 

[DianeDobbler]

Season 4 is filming now!

[DianeDobbler]

I just ff'd the whole lake thing. If there's one thing I hate, it's whimsy.

 

The Daya storyline was just a load of bullshit. It was shoehorned in. When she got pregnant, a whole bunch of inmates conspired to pin the paternity on Pornstache, seeing as Daya understood completely that as soon as the prison discovered she was pregnant, the person responsible - Bennett - was going to jail. Bennett was all wah wah but you porked Pornstache - the whole bit of "I'd have gone to jail if you didn't set up another baby daddy" was just not computing with him for no rational reason. FF to this season and suddenly Daya is all "Own your child." "But Daya, I'd go to jail and my options for employment for the rest of my life would be shut down."  Daya: Pout.

 

Flashbacks - I thought Morello's was ridiculously on the nose and directed poorly. The child was directed into a cartoonish performance, the spinning in place, the bit about white food making you fat. I could see it working, but not as played, performed and presented. That was a joke.

[Aja]

The Daya storyline was just a load of bullshit. It was shoehorned in. When she got pregnant, a whole bunch of inmates conspired to pin the paternity on Pornstache, seeing as Daya understood completely that as soon as the prison discovered she was pregnant, the person responsible - Bennett - was going to jail. Bennett was all wah wah but you porked Pornstache - the whole bit of "I'd have gone to jail if you didn't set up another baby daddy" was just not computing with him for no rational reason. FF to this season and suddenly Daya is all "Own your child." "But Daya, I'd go to jail and my options for employment for the rest of my life would be shut down."  Daya: Pout.

 

Yes! I was so glad when Bennett took off. I just never bought how passing little notes and him seeing her once in a bra led to some deep, abiding, true love. Meh. Bennett leaving was the best thing to happen because it led to all kinds of complicated weirdness surrounding Mrs. Pornstache and the adoption and eventually the DEA grabbing the baby (which I guess means La Famille Pornstache will soon learn the baby did not die.) As crazy as all that was, it was still more believable than "John I LOVE you. I want to spend the rest of my LIFE with you." Pout.

 

My favourites:

Like everyone, I agree that the Boo/Pennsatucky storyline was full of amazing. Even when she was horrible during season 1, I thought Taryn Manning was brilliant, and she just keeps on getting better. She is so heartbreakingly real and genuine when you realise nobody had ever, in her entire life, made it clear that rape is wrong, or that none of the guys who used her for sex had ever bothered about HER feelings until her one hot boyfriend came along. She portrays this combination of high intelligence and self-awareness that her upbringing did its best to squash, but didn't quite make it. 

 

I liked that Suzanne was given a lighter storyline this season. It was painful to watch her be victimised by Vee in the second season. I loved that she apologised to Poussey for beating her up, and that Poussey became her first and most ardent literary fan. The confrontation with Healy had me rolling. And I hope that she finally finds her own quirky love with the cute pixie-faced girl. The two of them giggling in the lake together was heartwarming. Suzanne deserves some real happiness.

 

Gloria, Gloria, Gloria! I adore her!  Selenis Leyva is another one of my favorite actors on the show (along with Taryn Manning Uzo Aduba.) For all of her bravado, she is determinedly straight-laced and a wonderful "mother" to her "girls". She can be equally heartbreaking (her frustration and sadness over her son) and hilarious (it may have been season 2 when Sophia was doing her hair and encouraged her to get something that was more edgy and terrifying and she said "I try to do that with my face.") She's amazing at conveying intense fear and rage at the same time. I loved her verbal smack down of Piper in the final episode, and her defence of Flaca. 

 

I liked Black Cindy's conversion, even if it rang a little untrue. Her meeting with the rabbi and the Jewish inmates was worth it. Someone upthread said that overall the black girls had the best story lines and actors, and I agree. Poussey, Suzanne, Taystee, Jenae and Cindy are all terrific in their moments and I always find myself  way more interested, especially this season, when they are on the screen. Poussey has one of the strongest characters in Litchfield--nothing leads her astray from her moral convictions. Time and again she's proven that she's pretty much the only one there that will insist on what she believes is right, including rescuing poor Brook and convincing the other girls to accept her into their group. 

 

The Norma cult was stupid. Everything involving Piper, Alex and Stella was insufferable and the only reason I didn't fast forward through the panty business scenes was because of Cal and his wife, who are hysterical. Otherwise that whole thing was just nonsensical and was supposed to prove…what? That Piper is a badass all of the sudden? The Alex/Piper/love/hate/love/hate was exhausting and i did not get the motivation for any of it. They were behaving like lunatics with very, very selective amnesia. Sorry, I don't buy the whole "but the LUST is so STRONG" because I am an adult over 30. Okay over 40. 

Edited July 7, 2015 by Aja

[lovemytvshows]

With Larry and Polly kinda out of the picture in terms of non-felons screen-time (although I like Polly and hope she makes a return), I'm hoping the show won't shy further and further from showing life on the outside in S4 - in real time I mean, not just flashbacks. I do like Cal and I really hope he and Neri continue to consistently show up, be it as part of a phone call or visitation. 

[baky]

With Larry and Polly kinda out of the picture in terms of non-felons screen-time (although I like Polly and hope she makes a return), I'm hoping the show won't shy further and further from showing life on the outside in S4 - in real time I mean, not just flashbacks. I do like Cal and I really hope he and Neri continue to consistently show up, be it as part of a phone call or visitation. 

I like Polly too! Hope we'll see her in S4

Yes! I was so glad when Bennett took off. I just never bought how passing little notes and him seeing her once in a bra led to some deep, abiding, true love. Meh. Bennett leaving was the best thing to happen because it led to all kinds of complicated weirdness surrounding Mrs. Pornstache and the adoption and eventually the DEA grabbing the baby (which I guess means La Famille Pornstache will soon learn the baby did not die.) As crazy as all that was, it was still more believable than "John I LOVE you. I want to spend the rest of my LIFE with you." Pout.

 

My favourites:

Like everyone, I agree that the Boo/Pennsatucky storyline was full of amazing. Even when she was horrible during season 1, I thought Taryn Manning was brilliant, and she just keeps on getting better. She is so heartbreakingly real and genuine when you realise nobody had ever, in her entire life, made it clear that rape is wrong, or that none of the guys who used her for sex had ever bothered about HER feelings until her one hot boyfriend came along. She portrays this combination of high intelligence and self-awareness that her upbringing did its best to squash, but didn't quite make it. 

 

I liked that Suzanne was given a lighter storyline this season. It was painful to watch her be victimised by Vee in the second season. I loved that she apologised to Poussey for beating her up, and that Poussey became her first and most ardent literary fan. The confrontation with Healy had me rolling. And I hope that she finally finds her own quirky love with the cute pixie-faced girl. The two of them giggling in the lake together was heartwarming. Suzanne deserves some real happiness.

 

Gloria, Gloria, Gloria! I adore her!  Selenis Leyva is another one of my favorite actors on the show (along with Taryn Manning Uzo Aduba.) For all of her bravado, she is determinedly straight-laced and a wonderful "mother" to her "girls". She can be equally heartbreaking (her frustration and sadness over her son) and hilarious (it may have been season 2 when Sophia was doing her hair and encouraged her to get something that was more edgy and terrifying and she said "I try to do that with my face.") She's amazing at conveying intense fear and rage at the same time. I loved her verbal smack down of Piper in the final episode, and her defence of Flaca. 

 

I liked Black Cindy's conversion, even if it rang a little untrue. Her meeting with the rabbi and the Jewish inmates was worth it. Someone upthread said that overall the black girls had the best story lines and actors, and I agree. Poussey, Suzanne, Taystee, Jenae and Cindy are all terrific in their moments and I always find myself  way more interested, especially this season, when they are on the screen. Poussey has one of the strongest characters in Litchfield--nothing leads her astray from her moral convictions. Time and again she's proven that she's pretty much the only one there that will insist on what she believes is right, including rescuing poor Brook and convincing the other girls to accept her into their group. 

 

The Norma cult was stupid. Everything involving Piper, Alex and Stella was insufferable and the only reason I didn't fast forward through the panty business scenes was because of Cal and his wife, who are hysterical. Otherwise that whole thing was just nonsensical and was supposed to prove…what? That Piper is a badass all of the sudden? The Alex/Piper/love/hate/love/hate was exhausting and i did not get the motivation for any of it. They were behaving like lunatics with very, very selective amnesia. Sorry, I don't buy the whole "but the LUST is so STRONG" because I am an adult over 30. Okay over 40. 

Loved Gloria this season. One of the best written charachters

[Cherpumple]

Speaking of Gloria, are we supposed to think that she genuinely believes in the santeria methods that she's been dishing out? Her flashbacks show that it was clearly part of her family's life, so it's something she honestly knows about, but I don't know how seriously she takes it. At the end of season 2 she seemed to just be humoring Norma, who was clearly upset by Vee's attack on Red, and early in season 3 she was obviously annoyed by Norma trying to use it and then by Poussey trying to get rid of her "bad luck" egg, so I don't know what to think.

[questionfear]

Speaking of Gloria, are we supposed to think that she genuinely believes in the santeria methods that she's been dishing out? Her flashbacks show that it was clearly part of her family's life, so it's something she honestly knows about, but I don't know how seriously she takes it. At the end of season 2 she seemed to just be humoring Norma, who was clearly upset by Vee's attack on Red, and early in season 3 she was obviously annoyed by Norma trying to use it and then by Poussey trying to get rid of her "bad luck" egg, so I don't know what to think.

I think she can believe in it and still be somewhat skeptical. She thinks it has some power, though I think her flashbacks show she's not as religious as her aunt(?) was about it. 

 

But even someone skeptical might feel like it's a bad idea to mess with the religion if the practitioner doesn't understand it. Gloria may not practice it, but if it's been ingrained in her to always follow certain rules, seeing Norma flaunt them or screw them up probably still triggers that sense of "oh hell no". 

[Maysie]

 

Piper continues to be Carrie Bradshaw in prison garb. A self-absorbed, insufferable, horrible person.

 

Yes. Yes. Yes. A thousand times yes.

 

Whereas Piper annoyed me last season I grew to hate her by the end of season three. I thought she was incredibly cavalier about Alex's situation, particularly since she helped get Alex back into prison. And then the final shot of her giving herself her infinity tattoo just seemed so - I don't know. It's like I was watching a different show. There were enough references to Breaking Bad that I felt like we were seeing her turn into her own version of Walter White, which is a bit cheesy.

 

Hated the Norma storyline, but I don't much like Norma anyway. Also didn't care about Stella and the meth heads bored me. And I kind of like Piper's brother, but I had a feeling when he and his wife were working on creating more soiled panties that it was channeling a poor version of Zach Galifianakis's character and his girlfriend in Bored to Death, which NO. Just no. There is only one Super Ray.

 

Hate aside, there were good things about the season. The first of which was no Vee and no Larry and Polly. Happy to lose that shit. I am happy they called back to Suzanne's dependency on Vee and I liked that they showed the fallout from that. The really great thing about the season is that I found I liked characters that I thought I hated: Pennsatucky, Boo and Soso -- or at least I cared about them. I was sold on Soso's and Poussey's isolation/loneliness and figured they'd end up together in some form but I think it's awesome that the black crew welcomed Soso in.

 

I kinda love Red and she did what I thought was impossible, which was to make Healy somewhat sympathetic. Don't get me wrong: I think he's an asshole who wants to be Big Daddy to all the ladies, which is creepy. But his interactions with Red showed some sort of humanity in him that I rarely see otherwise.

 

Fig and Caputo having sex: no more, please. And no more bad mullet wigs on Caputo again either, please. Somehow I'm shocked to know that Caputo is actually a good musician (or at least talented enough to establish a hit band) and wrestler. He never instilled me with a feeling of competence, so that was a bit of a surprise . . .

[poppy-]

I read somewhere that Natasha Lyonne left the show to treat addiction. Probably just a nasty rumor, I have NO idea if it's true.... but somehow that made me decide Stella was brought on to play that same role.  Wisecracking but wise. That helped her character work for me.  The new actress didn't have that charisma and the extended naked scene was kind of gross, though.

 

I don't hate or love Alex, but I like the scene where she had to explain to Piper that Flaca is poor.

 

I love the way that they made Susanne the straight man to her wacky fans.

[lovemytvshows]

I read somewhere that Natasha Lyonne left the show to treat addiction. Probably just a nasty rumor, I have NO idea if it's true.... but somehow that made me decide Stella was brought on to play that same role.  Wisecracking but wise. That helped her character work for me.  The new actress didn't have that charisma and the extended naked scene was kind of gross, though.

I don't hate or love Alex, but I like the scene where she had to explain to Piper that Flaca is poor.

 

I hope Ruby Rose never comes back in S4. Bring Natasha Lyonne back but not her. RR seemed to have been brought in just for the hype and whatnot (I know this has been discussed in the Unpopular Opinions thread).

 

I quite liked that they had Alex being the almost moral compass of the Vauseman pair in S3. Probably helped show how far off the deep end Piper went this season.

[Janet Snakehole]

 

I quite liked that they had Alex being the almost moral compass of the Vauseman pair in S3. Probably helped show how far off the deep end Piper went this season.

Yes. This. I was never an Alex fan, but this season made me have much more respect for her. She is serving her time, trying to stay alive, and therefore avoiding a lot of the bullshit. Piper is privileged lady trying to play king pin, messing with women who actually may not have lifelines outside of prison, and it is so annoying.

I genuinely hope Alex is alive and that Piper gets a little comeuppance next season.

[lovemytvshows]

Piper is privileged lady trying to play king pin, messing with women who actually may not have lifelines outside of prison, and it is so annoying.

 

Question about prison laws and whatnot in America (bit of a giveaway that I'm not American...ha!): Alex said something about those girls (i.e. Flaca etc) being poor and stuff outside of prison but for people like Piper and herself who obviously had money before they went in, they probably wouldn't be in too much strife once they got out? Even if they were unemployed? Or does the govt. take your money (or whatever money you made illegally through the crime you were convicted of - if it was money related)?

 

For example, Piper would've had her soap business or whatever else she did post-Alex and surely she would get access to her savings post-prison? As for Alex, maybe she would lose some or all of the money she made drug trafficking but wasn't she pretty darn well off pre-arrest? 

[poppy-]

The government can seize assets related to crime in some cases.   Someone like Alex would certainly have laundered her cash.  Piper wasn't convicted of a money crime, she was convicted of.... I want to say trafficking? Piper was well off when she came in, is well off while there (in terms of commissary), and will be well off when she goes out. 

 

The main barrier for ex-cons is that most jobs require applicants to disclose any felony convictions.  Not a big issue for Piper, but it would be a hit for most of the other inmates.

[baky]

didn't know where to write this but I really missed Nicky+Piper scenes this season. 

[DeccaMitford]

 

The main barrier for ex-cons is that most jobs require applicants to disclose any felony convictions.

This is big, but another huge barrier is the fact that a felony conviction can bar you from access to a number of state benefits, including housing. If you were poor enough to rely on those before you went to prison, you'll be in an even worse situation when you get out.

 

People can also lose certain benefits (like public housing) if somebody with a felony lives with them, which is often taken to mean as little as letting the person crash on the couch for a single night. So even if you leave prison with friends or relatives willing to help you get back on your feet, there can be a limit to what help they're able to give without becoming homeless themselves.

[poppy-]

Yikes, I didn't know that.  Wow.  I know penalties are sometimes higher for those convicted of drug-related felonies which I assume is most of the ladies on the show (federal prison and all....) Hope it doesn't impact WIC.

[lovemytvshows]

But if you had money? And you went to prison, they probably wouldn't seize those money/assets unless they were directly involved with the crime? So people who were more well off etc would yeah probably still have trouble getting employment but could live off their savings no problems?

 

Edit: Oh and by well off, I don't mean like Martha Stewart well off. Maybe er upper middle class?

Edited July 13, 2015 by lovemytvshows

[tpplay]

 

Alaida is a miserable hosebeast and I hate her most out of everyone this season.

 

I have also profoundly disliked her.  But this season I HATED her.

 

She is irredeemable in my view - for so many reasons.  More than anything for actually KNOWING that she is a black hole of neediness and STILL ACTING ON THAT.  So so so so so horrible.

Edited July 14, 2015 by tpplay

[Aja]

I totally agree about Aleida. Even her backstory didn't do her any favors. Even though you see the seeds of her issue with Daya (massive insecurity, basically), the way she handles it is completely unsympathetic. Throwing your child's art in the trash right in front of them is effed up.

[Gianthambeast]

Really late to this party but just finished binge-watching all three seasons-- loved it.  The humor is the main attraction for me-- hilarious writing.  There was an article in Slate a while back where an ex-con criticized the show as "unrealistic" one of the complaints being that the characters were all "horrible people," and "dehumanizing."  I disagree though-- the charm of these zany characters is that almost none of them are completely good or completely evil, in other words, thoroughly human. 

 

General thoughts on Season 3

 

Love the Time Hump story arc---  it cracks me up the way it reminds me of people talking about the latest episode of Game of Thrones.

 

Really like the Tucky and Boo friendship--  two characters that I loathed at the beginning are now two of my faves

 

Sick of the Daya's baby storyline, but I guess that isn't getting resolved any time soon.

 

I hope they kill off Alex-- never liked her.  Fast forward any time I see her. 

Edited July 20, 2015 by Gianthambeast

[Dobian]

I liked season 3 a lot.  It had its flaws but was good overall.  I really liked the flashbacks this year, especially Normas', Chang's, and Caputo's.  They also really expanded on some of the secondary characters this year, notably Norma, Boo, Brook, Aleida, and Leanne.  Pennsatucky moved back to the forefront again after having been shoved into the background most of last year.  Same with Sophia and also Alex, who was awol for much of last season.  Suzanne's foray into erotic fiction was pretty funny.  Piper's continued self-absorption was annoying, and finding her identity by running a criminal business operation was a bit of a stretch.  Oh I bought that she was creative enough to come up with and execute the idea, but I didn't buy how she somehow morphed into this tough prison bitch, it's not who she is and she just doesn't look the part.  Stella was just stunt casting.  Cindy becoming a Jew for legitimate reasons was pretty forced, they had to shove a flashback into the final episode to explain the reason.  I like Cindy, I just felt that story was contrived.  The cult of Norma was entertaining just to be able to watch her convey her thoughts and feelings through all those facial expressions.  Sophia's story probably held my interest the most.  I want to see how it turns out.  My love for Red continues to grow.  I was glad to see Bennett go, I was tired of him and Daya.  Aleida I never liked, and this year was no different.  Caputo was terrific this year.  Healy continues to be a love/hate thing.  He can fill you with empathy one moment, then be a total douchebag the next.  The final scene at the lake was great, their one moment of blissful freedom before returning to a prison that just got a lot worse.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Dobian

[DianeDobbler]

I can't feel for Aleida either. I think it goes to the writing's failure to distinguish among the backstories. The writing sort of places them all on the same playing field, and they're not. If that's the case, then it's up to the actors to sort of balance the scales. I think Yael Stone does such a good job as Morello a lot of viewers have to mentally placemark that she's really a whole lot more dangerous and wrong than the show tells us she is. It's not that visceral because Morello's persona is appealing. I think Cindy might be the most and realistic, however shoehorned in her conversion was, because at all times IMO we can see what very justifiably got her into prison, but also see so many positive attributes. Elizabeth Rodriguez is a good actress but we haven't seen anything in her Aleida that even hints at anything more than Aleida is, a repellent narcissist who had 11 or whatever kids for narcissistic reasons, who felt some sort of pang when she experienced rejection from Daya, and was able to articulate that she'd been a narcissistic fuck-up, but nowhere was there even a suggestion that she was, not even deep inside, anything more than a toxic, narcissistic fuck-up. 

 

P.S., I've read and can see and understand what Annie Golden was to the club and music scene in the 1980s, but she's a bad actress. Absolutely everything in the meth head cult story did a face plant. There's not one person to hang your hat on. I never think, oh, this one or that one could be good, but the writing sucks. I think all the performers in the meth story, including Golden, lack whatever x factor could make their characters compelling even if the writing for them improved.

Edited July 18, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[MakeMeLaugh]

(ETA: Moved from episode 13 thread)

This season was so sentimental it might have been shot in soft focus. The prisoners are in prison FGS because they are smart dangerous, stupid dangerous, or crazy dangerous. We pretty much didn't see the dangerous this season. Tell me Boo would have any trouble shoving that broomstick up rapist's ass (at least Tucky thought it would be gross to touch his sticky smelly cheeks). Come on, writers.

Would you jump into the lake just because everyone else did? Apparently yes.

The panty line (see what I did there?) is unbelievable. Whispers would already be cutting the patterns to minimize waste fabric (okay, ick) but there could not be surplus lace trim lying around anyway--how do they account for the overage. If Piper was squeezing out seven panties from a six panty piece of fabric, the stitchers are now speeding up production to sew seven instead of six in the same amount of time? And finally, why even bother? Her brother's wife's system of fake excretions (on store-bought panties?) will sell just fine without all the work--and their customers are not going to contact the press to complain they were sold fake dirty used prison underwear even if they figure it out. Fail.

I did like Alex so much more when she was not joined to Piper's hip (but puhleeze just kill Alex, Show). I do not know Lori Petty other than this show and holy shit she was amazing. Good to know a perfectly logical reason for Norma not talking.

There must be a lot more prisoners than we see for someone as striking as Stella not to be seen before, so the new capacity with bunkbeds won't necessarily bring in new characters.

Could we please have some of these people actually finish their sentences and get sent home? And not come back?

[possibilities]

I think the time that has passed on the show is less than a year, since Piper's sentence was only something like 18 months-- but I'm not sure exactly how long, so that could be an off perception.

 

However, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, recidivism for federal prisoners is more than 2/3, so even if we do see some releases, it's not likely most of them will stay out.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/reentry/recidivism.cfm

 

I didn't find the back stories sentimental. We see that Chang became a violent overlord. We see that Aleida is an unredeemed, soul crushing narcissist. Morello is unreformed in her violent stalker behaviors, even from behind bars and despite that we thought maybe she had gotten a clue last season. Nikky was emotionally neglected growing up but had a family that basically did try to save her, including lots of access to cash and multiple chances for rehab, and still preferred life on the street as an addict. How is any of this sentimental or designed to encourage us to think of these women as less criminally culpable?

[MakeMeLaugh]

I imagine the recidivism rate is high for most prisoners (around 50 percent conviction rate in the study about 15 state prison systems) cited above)--I should have said, don't come back to this show (do recidivists return to the exact same prison with the same population? I would guess not) . With such a big cast, surely a couple of them would have left, appealed, transferred, whatever in the time frame of the season.

I think I'm allowed to feel this season treated the current characters very sympathetically, others of course will disagree. One of my favorite scenes was Soso telling her visitor to stop thinking it was cool that she was in prison, and to not come back.

Edited July 19, 2015 by MakeMeLaugh

[DianeDobbler]

I think it's about the tone the show takes. The tone towards even Aleida got to be extremely sympathetic, cuing the audience to feel for her. It just didn't work. The show took a "isn't this adorable" tone towards Morello having Christopher beaten up, her pen pal schtick and her marriage. I just think that's lazy, particularly regarding Morello, whose backstory was the most affecting. 

 

Recidivism - I bet inmates like Piper are pretty rare - an upper middle-class, early thirties white woman with lots of connections and safety nets out in the real world, first offense, infraction ten year in the past with no sign she's done anything illegal since. Look at Martha Stewart. Was in her fifties when she was sent away; don't expect her back. There are reasons there's a lot of recidivism - I think a ton of it is economic. And no network. Look what happened when Angie was mistakenly released - bus stop. Or Tasty. I think their experiences are more common and show us why inmates come back. There's also a theory that even high-performing inmates from disadvantaged backgrounds, who flourish in the structure of a prison, can't hack it without that structure on the outside.

 

Piper's sentence is fifteen years. I don't know if she had more time added for perjuring herself, or just lost good behavior time off.

Edited July 19, 2015 by DianeDobbler

[lovemytvshows]

Piper's sentence is fifteen years. I don't know if she had more time added for perjuring herself, or just lost good behavior time off.

 

I thought it was 15 months? 

 

And isn't each season kinda like 3 months worth? So I'm wondering how the longevity of the show will go by S5, toward the end of the 15 months sentence. If OITNB is still popular, they'll probably find a way to milk it for all it's worth. And for most tv shows, that's when the quality starts to drop and storylines get more contrived IMO at least. That said, I'm pretty sure the show-runners had a 5-year/season plan for the show from the start.

[EllenI]

HI - I'm new here, so hi, Everyone!

 

I actually tried to find a forum to discuss this series because I wondered if anyone else is  assuming that Bennett has disappeared because he has been busy arranging for Cesar's arrrest?

 

The writers lead us to believe that he left the crib by the side of the road because he was chickening out of his relatoinship with Daya, but I think he left it there because it was associated with Cesar and the lifestyle that Bennett witnessed when he went to visit that house. That crib, and all that it represented, made him sick.

 

I think he orchestrated Cesar's bust so that the children, including his own newborn, would be removed from that god-forsaken hellhole of a "home" and would be taken into protective custody. He knew enough about Cesar, he had visited the home and witnessed Cesar pulling a gun on the boy who didn't want to eat french fries, and he could describe the conditions to the authorities. Also, he had the prison connection, so he'd have credibility. Remember when he told Daya that his uncle was friends with the warden - or something like that - when he was first trying to talk her into asking for furlough?

 

Anyway, I wondered if anyone else sees this possibility? I don't like the Bennett/Daya storyline that much, because they didn't give the relatoinsihp enough time to develop and it seemed forced ... plus, of all the girls there, I doubt that Bennett would fall for Daya. She has the personality of s stuffed animal, and she's certainly not the prettiest girl there. Or maybe my problem with it is that (sorry for those of you who like her a lot), the girl who plays Daya is just not a very good actress.

 

What do you all think about this possibility? If it has already been discussed, I am sorry. I haven't had a chance to read all the topics yet.

[possibilities]

I think it's Alex who has 15 years, not Piper. Alex got sent back to prison after violating parole by having a gun (and pointing it her parole officer). If Piper got additional time for perjury, I missed it. Not saying it didn't happen, just saying I think her original sentence was short, much shorter than Alex's, and I didn't catch it if they added to it.

 

Re whether people return to the same prison, I think it probably depends on what the violation is. Many people get out on parole and go back in for parole violations, and I think those do go back to where they were released from. If they commit a new crime, it would depend on whether it was the same or a different type, and thus prosecuted as a federal or a local issue. If federal, there are not that many federal women's prisons, so they may well wind up back where they started. It also depends to some degree on whether they are classified as a minimum or maximum security inmate.

 

RE Bennett, I like the idea that he was orchestrating a rescue for the kids in Cesar's "care," but I don't know whether the show will give that to us or not. The actor got a job on How To Get Away With Murder, so that may influence whether they will ever show Bennett again or follow up on what he did after he disappeared.