Season 17 Live Feed Discussion: Watch People Sleep All Day!

[blixie]

 

So that means she's one of the final two, right?

 

No I think Steve/Liz square off in Part 2, and the winner of that goes to part 3 with Van, she still has to WIN part 3, or if not be taken by the ultimate winner (Steve/Liz) to final 2. Part 2 is questions but I think Liz is better at days/questions than the Veto comp showed, so she has a good shot if that's what part 2 is. I have no idea what kind of competition Part 3 is.

 

 

I actually think Liz has a shot against Steve.

 

I agree.

 

Liz: Austin, Julia, Meg, 

Steve: John, Vanessa, Shelli,

 

I think James, Becky and Jacki are toss ups, I think Steve would still win (James likes him, Becky/Jackie like him more than Liz and probably still perceive him playing a surprisingly good game), but it would be closer than Vanessa I think, where I'd guess she only has Austin/Julia for sure. 

[marie]

Part 2 is usually pretty physical and has some puzzle-like component, like....put the nominees from each week in order while flying on this zipline or something.

 

Then the winners of Part 1 and Part 2 compete in Part 3 which is usually questions about the jury. "Meg said her favorite day was...when Clay was evicted or when Zingbot showed up?"

 

Part 3 is often a total crapshoot. The questions are super random and sometimes the jurors seem to straight-up try to mess with their heads with their answers.

 

Oh, one other reason I feel Liz COULD win against Steve is that while she's not a genius, I DO think she can present herself well and with a lot of confidence. I can't imagine a scenario where Steve doesn't totally bomb in his final speech and jury questions.

[blixie]

 

I can't imagine a scenario where Steve doesn't totally bomb in his final speech and jury questions.

 

I can, I'm NOT saying he's Keyser Soze, but I think somewhere between 65-70% of what we see in Steve is theater. Yes he cried like a bitch alone in his HoH, but he did that hoping someone would check in/notice, and when they didn't he went looking for someone to literally cry on. I've seen lots of  moments with Steve especially in the early weeks where he was FAR more comfortable and confident in himself, I think he saw all those "cool beautiful people" and wanted to lean extra hard into his natural anxieties and awkwardness, amp them up to the max. So part of me would love to see that whole facade drop and to see that much more confident guy make his points, including a note to Vanessa/Meg that his "secret" was bullshit! Heheh.

[Ceeg]

I really want Liz to win Part 2, just because I find it really annoying and pompous that for weeks Steve has been practicing his "I evict you Vanessa" speech. He even did it last night after the HOH comp THAT HE DIDN'T EVEN WIN. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Read a quote online saying "Johnny Mac is this seasons Kaysar."

Wait, let me stop laughing hysterically. Seriously? First of all, Kaysar was friggin' gorgeous and Johnny Mac is...not. Second, although Kaysar had his moments (e.g., "No, I sealed your partner's fate.") he was a terrible BB player, IMO. Johnny Mac to his credit managed to get farther along than Kaysar did with less "blood" on his hands.

[mayziemay]

Liz should have won that competition.  What a moron.

[PaperTree]

I find it really annoying and pompous that for weeks Steve has been practicing his "I evict you Vanessa" speech. He even did it last night after the HOH comp THAT HE DIDN'T EVEN WIN. 

I'm not a superstitious person, but that is just tempting Karma.  Especially when it's all on tape and people will mock you for years if it doesn't go your way.  Don't count your chickens and all that.

 

Looks like it's Vanessa's game to lose, but I think she'll win this HOH outright and then the game.

[SiobhanJW]

I'm not a superstitious person, but that is just tempting Karma. Especially when it's all on tape and people will mock you for years if it doesn't go your way. Don't count your chickens and all that.

Looks like it's Vanessa's game to lose, but I think she'll win this HOH outright and then the game.

He's been doing it for days now. When he was on the block against Austin he was practicing his Vanessa eviction speech in the backyard. Then after he won HOH. And then again last night after HE LOST THE HOH. Granted he has another shot, but dude stop counting your chickens and getting cocky before they hatch.

[gunderda]

Kaysar was HOT!  I think he was my first BB crush. 

Johnny Mac is not so bad when he's not talking but he's no Kaysar.

[ByaNose]

I'm looking forward to seeing how Steve lost round 1. Hopefully, he can win round 2 just so Vanessa will sweat a little. If Liz wins round 2, Vanessa won't care because she'll know she's a lock for the finals. I want just a little more drama for finale night.

[blixie]

If round 2 is a physical element crossed with a puzzle just like the Life in Pieces veto, I'd  think Liz/Steve should be fairly evenly matched, with an edge to Liz.

[marie]

I can, I'm NOT saying he's Keyser Soze, but I think somewhere between 65-70% of what we see in Steve is theater. Yes he cried like a bitch alone in his HoH, but he did that hoping someone would check in/notice, and when they didn't he went looking for someone to literally cry on. I've seen lots of  moments with Steve especially in the early weeks where he was FAR more comfortable and confident in himself, I think he saw all those "cool beautiful people" and wanted to lean extra hard into his natural anxieties and awkwardness, amp them up to the max. So part of me would love to see that whole facade drop and to see that much more confident guy make his points, including a note to Vanessa/Meg that his "secret" was bullshit! Heheh.

 

I agree a majority of his behavior is schtick. But I also believe that includes a lot of his "awkward genius" rep. I've seen no proof that he's even that smart. Despite how the houseguests have painted him, he's no Ian. Ian's anti-social weirdness and numbers obsession was very, very real. I think Steve is just an above average intelligence coddled weirdo. I mean, the fact that he thinks sobbing fits and hugging a teddy bear will endear him to the audience is just messed up. 

 

But I still say his jury performance would be very awkward. Anytime he was in one on one strategy talks with people, you could sense their frustration as he made them repeat themselves, fixate on inconsequential details, and ignore their larger points.

[blixie]

 

I've seen no proof that he's even that smart.

 

You weren't talking about whether Steve was smart,  you were saying he couldn't be composed or make competent arguments and I certainly think he's capable of both. He is an awkward weird dude (though IMO far less fucking awkward than THE ARBITER), but I don't think he'll be any kind of disaster when talking to the Jury about his game. I still think he'd beat her in a F2. 

 

 

Also, since Liz made that complaint, they've been dipping them in there about 5x as often.

 

I'm Flashing Back to it now, and it's so FUNNY. Liz: "Ooooh My Goooooduh, STAAAAAAHP."

 

Production proceeds to dip them immediately back in three more times.  Heee.

[peachmangosteen]

Has Steve ever offered an explanation for why he doesn't drink alcohol?

 

Why would he need to?

 

I started off feeling for his awkwardness, now I'm feeling like he's playing that for all he is worth to move on in the game.  Who knows, I'm also pretty cynical so I could be horribly wrong.

 

At this point I lean towards Steve's awkward shit being 90% schtick. I always hated him, but I thought maybe it was more 50/50 before. But now I think he's almost sociopathic with how fake he is tbh.

 

Vanessa played a great game I do wonder if her social game will hurt her she didn't have good relationships with the other side and besides Becky they don't seem to respect good game play.

 

I don't agree. I think almost everyone in the jury (including Steve/Liz) will vote for Vanessa because they all think she played the best game. Possibly Liz/Julia/Meg/James could be influenced by Austin's histrionics, but I don't really think they will. OK Julia/Liz probably will be, but I don't think James will be and I think Meg will ultimately just vote how he does.

[blixie]

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how Steve lost round 1.

 

It was a little unclear to me but it looked like first he fell OFF his disc (yet wasn't immediately DQ'd) so he was just sitting on the ball weight thingy which looked like it was rubberized and was therefore probably much more slippery to hang on, and then he slipped of the ball weight, that was 3.5 hours into it. 

 

ETA: hmm at some point they were probably told to move down from the disc to the ball to speed up the comp, cause Liz/Van are both off it and the disc was digging into them subsequently. Liz had to pee and Van played on how hard it was and how she was NEVER going to drop, and she had to win part 1 because part 2 might include a more traditional physical element like speed she'd suck at. Basically she saw Liz was flagging big time and exploited her mental defeat/weakness. I LOVE Vanessa.

Edited September 17, 2015 by blixie

[kellog010]

Toward the end of the competition Production made them all sit on the actual ball and not the disc thing. I think this is why the comp suddenly ended because it was shortly after that Steve fell.

 

I'm looking forward to who will win P2. I think it's 50/50 at this point. They'll both be fired up for it and it really will come down to who can beat Vanessa in P3. If Vanessa is evicted at F3 it doesn't change that she dominated that house the entire game and played a heck of a game in my opinion. I think the jury, or at least James, had to be just a little impressed with the way that she misted Julia in the middle a comp and then just cut Austin off at the knees.

 

I'm glad Shelli made the point that even if they did see Vanessa's game, they are the ones in jury and Vanessa is still in the house. I like that there are 3 strong players left in F3 and no floaters.

[Ceeg]

Steve legitimately fell when they changed the comp to where they were using their arms rather than just sitting there being dipped, because he is wimpy and has no upper body strength at all. Liz dropped off because Vanessa was like, I'll here for 10 hours and you need to save your strength for Round 2. 

 

If Vanessa loses at F3, I think she'll be the best BB player to have never won since Danielle in BB3.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Ceeg

[Cutty]

Oh, one other reason I feel Liz COULD win against Steve is that while she's not a genius, I DO think she can present herself well and with a lot of confidence. I can't imagine a scenario where Steve doesn't totally bomb in his final speech and jury questions.

 

Seriously? I think the opposite is true. Liz wasn't even aware that the jury gets to ask questions up until last week. He's not a great conversationalist but Steve's HOH and veto speeches have been fine. I don't see any basis for the idea he would bomb. 

 

I actually think Liz has a shot against Steve. And I don't see how she didn't play just as good, if not better of a game. She was playing for 2 for 5 weeks, she was instrumental in stopping the Austin backdoor that shaped how the rest of the game played out, she's been actively involved in the majority alliance since week 2, she wins when she needs to, including single-handedly winning a BOTB that kept both her and Julia safe. Liz would be a much better winner than a creep who tries to endear himself to the audience by acting like a 5 year old.

 

But Vanessa really needs to take this or it'll go next to Danielle's loss in BB3 as one of the bigger BB injustices.

 

Liz was also involved in a twist (that sucked so bad it was out week 2) where she spent the first five weeks watching movies in a hotel room for part of the time. I realize that's not her doing but lets not pretend like she's had a tough road. 

 

I'm not a fan of either but I just can't with Liz. The way she has talked shit about the other HGs all season, specifically the women and their looks, I just can't root for that. She represents everything I hate about the casting on this show. And I can't think of a single thing she's done strategically.

 

I also disagree she was instrumental in stopping Austin's backdoor. That was all Shelli. If she had gone back to Vanessa and said we need to follow through Austin would have been gone and Liz could have very likely been the next boot.

 

"Liz, what was your biggest move strategically?"

"Well-uhhhh, I got out all of Vanessa's targets for her." 

[SiobhanJW]

I'm Flashing Back to it now, and it's so FUNNY. Liz: "Ooooh My Goooooduh, STAAAAAAHP."

Production proceeds to dip them immediately back in three more times. Heee.

My favorite was when after getting repeatedly slammed into the wall for awhile Liz goes "I miss the dips.. I'm so sorry.. I took all the dipping for granted" Edited September 17, 2015 by SiobhanJW

[blixie]

LIz's face at the end was pretty obviously saying, "Fuck 500K, I'm sore, tired,  covered in red die, cold, and I have to pee, I'll take 50K."

 

 

My favorite was when after getting repeatedly slammed into the wall for awhile Liz goes "I miss the dips.. I'm so sorry.. I took all the dipping for granted"

 

Heee, yes, this what I watch this show for even to see the players I like get tortured with the most absurd situations ever. It wasn't quite Brendon losing his shorts while dragging himself through maple syrup, but the more gross and humiliating the comp the better. 

Edited September 17, 2015 by blixie

[Eolivet]

I've never been Steve's biggest fan, but now I'm actively rooting for him to lose because of the odd maniacal glee he's seemed to take (from descriptions and on the show) from wanting to evict Vanessa. Vanessa may be the most emotional, unstable mess there is, but I've never heard it recapped or seen it on the show that she looks forward to evicting someone with that kind of...personal zeal. It's all game moves with her. She makes deals, not friendships. She doesn't seem to relish stabbing people in the back or get some kind of high off of it. Players like that sort of make me uncomfortable.

 

I get that it's his one and only move, but that also means he's kind of a terrible strategist. Why not evict Liz and play up that you booted the twins when no one else could? Or that it was your move splitting up Liz and Julia that even allowed Vanessa to backdoor Austin in the first place? Or mention your comp wins are nearly equal to Vanessa's? Or something.

 

But I get the feeling that his F2 speech will be basically "I evicted Vanessa! ME! ME! ME!" and if that's the case, I hope Liz is the first woman in Big Brother history to beat a dude.

[marie]

Liz was also involved in a twist (that sucked so bad it was out week 2) where she spent the first five weeks watching movies in a hotel room for part of the time. I realize that's not her doing but lets not pretend like she's had a tough road. 

 

I'm not a fan of either but I just can't with Liz. The way she has talked shit about the other HGs all season, specifically the women and their looks, I just can't root for that. She represents everything I hate about the casting on this show. And I can't think of a single thing she's done strategically.

 

I also disagree she was instrumental in stopping Austin's backdoor. That was all Shelli. If she had gone back to Vanessa and said we need to follow through Austin would have been gone and Liz could have very likely been the next boot.

 

"Liz, what was your biggest move strategically?"

"Well-uhhhh, I got out all of Vanessa's targets for her." 

 

Agree to disagree, because I think being gone from the game for days at a time and having to play catch up, having to navigate relationships that aren't your own, and not controlling your own destiny would be VERY tough. Think about that week when she comes back into the game in the midst of a huge conspiracy to backdoor Austin that she was not there for the conception of and she's on the block in danger of ruining not only her but her sister's chance at the game. That is a LOT of pressure. 

 

And she was a HUGE reason that backdoor didn't happen. Had Julia been in the house post-BOTB, I fully believe Vanessa would've had the back-up to go through with it. As it was, Liz immediately was in her ear about how Jason probably twisted Austin's words, and Austin was a number for their side. 

 

I've been watching this show for a long time, and while Liz isn't my fave, she can't even come close to some of the vicious behavior I've seen. Hell, CODY last season was worse than her for cattiness and even he was harmless. 

[Waldo13]

I know I'm getting greedy, but Vanessa/Liz being in the finals and Vanessa beating him would be the ultimate outcome for me. Just so Austin flips out again.

You know his whole argument with the jury is going to be wanting a "good person" to win, and do they really want to be responsible for one of the most dishonorable HGs win? And that the public will love them if they shut her down. I think James and Meg might go for that. I don't know about the rest.

Does Asstin actually listen to what he is saying? Like he's the most honorable HG to ever play BB. Almost every BB winner has been dishonest. I know Dan didn't win the second time, but what he did to Danielle was the most dishonest despicable thing in BB history.

As for Liztin being anything like Jeff and Jordan, I say once again he has no idea of how the real world viewed them.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Waldo13

[Ceeg]

I don't think either Steve or Liz have much of a case to make to the jury, even if they're the last two standing. I think they've both been equally controlled by Vanessa and did her bidding. But, because Liz came in with such a HUGE target, and survived week after week, I'd probably give my vote to Liz. Steve evicted Jackie (for Vanessa), Steve evicted Julia (because Vanessa made a deal with the twins), and Steve won the last 2 HOHs and presumably evicts Vanessa since it was his only option. Liz evicted Becky (for Vanessa), James (for Vanessa), but managed to make her way to the end while having a twin and a showmance. That's impressive IMO.

 

Vanessa, on the other hand, would literally need to get out a chart and laser pointer to show everyone all the moves she made and evictions she had a part of, both directly and indirectly. A presentation of the explanation of Vanessa's strategy and game moves would probably take the entire finale to cover.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Ceeg

[peachmangosteen]

I wish there was someone on the jury who was smart/snarky enough to preface their jury question to Vanessa with "Answer this without using these words/phrases; blood on my hands (or any variants), solo dolo, integrity, or as a member of the lgbt community." I think Becky is, but the way jury questioning is now doesn't really allow for people to actually question the F2 anyway. They all already know who they're voting for and the questions are pretty obviously planted by Production. Sigh, I miss the old days.

Edited September 17, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Cutty]

Had Julia been in the house post-BOTB, I fully believe Vanessa would've had the back-up to go through with it. 

 

We can thank production for that. IIRC, Julia was supposed to switch back in but never did. 

 

I'm sad we didn't get to see that because Julia really did want Austin out, and she did have decent relationships with the Jason side of the house. 

Edited September 17, 2015 by Cutty

[blixie]

 

but I've never heard it recapped or seen it on the show that she looks forward to evicting someone with that kind of...personal zeal.

 

Her blindside of Austin is the closest she's come, and she only really turned on the "excitement" because John needed to see how committed she was to follow through, initially in the BY she said she didn't want to be a dick, but the Hamsters shouldn't be ruining the tv show suspense every week by warning the evictee what's going down.  And I think she DID enjoy it from a  game move/play PoV I believe she does love risk and has in her very own tortured way enjoyed digging herself out of jams all season long, but no she really does like Austin and I think pissing him off/betraying him  wasn't something she looked forward to doing.

 

I weirdly don't mind Steve focusing on voting out Van, it's his only play, and it's because he knows how good she is, and he loves the game so much that he can't wait to be the person who booted her. I haven't been impressed with Steve's ability to win anything ON PURPOSE though, and I think his anxieties have caused him to win accidentally, and lose accidentally. I can't think of one comp he went into with absolute confidence and owned that he biffed it.

[Cutty]

I wish there was someone on the jury who was smart/snarky enough to preface their jury question to Vanessa with "Answer this without using these words/phrases; blood on my hands (or any variants), solo dolo, integrity, or as a member of the lgbt community." I think Becky is, but the way jury questioning is now doesn't really allow for people to actually question the F2 anyway. They all already know who they're voting for and the questions are pretty obviously planted by Production. Sigh, I miss the old days.

 

Also, don't end every sentence with a condescending "You understand, right?" 

Of all the annoying things Vanessa does, and there are aplenty, that's near the top of the list. 

[peachmangosteen]

Oh, I thought of something I'm looking forward to on finale night: everyone finding out it was Steve/Liz who were the hinky votes during Jeff's eviction. Hopefully Becky says I told you so!

Also, don't end every sentence with a condescending "You understand, right?" 

Of all the annoying things Vanessa does, and there are aplenty, that's near the top of the list. 

 

Ugh yes. Honestly her condescending way of speaking is the #1 thing I can't stand about her. I honestly don't know how these people dealt with that shit. Props to them all tbh.

[Waldo13]

Yay, Van wins part 1! I'm happy now. They all did well though, surprisingly. I wouldn't have thought Steve would last, and actually thought Liz would win.

Now Liz has to win Part 2 for, I believe, it will ensure an all girl F2. I'm tired of all this testosterone dominating ass hats that use women like Kleenex.

I think that once Steve dropped, Vanessa really didn't have all that much to get Liz to drop. Liz was hurting, especially her VJ. (I wonder why). IMO Vanessa is favored to win Part 3 either against Steve or Liz. Vanessa has a fantastic memory and is very intuitive which is needed for the Part 3 type challenges. Steve could panic under pressure and Liz was too busy with Asstin to pay that much attention to other HG's.

[robertorv]

Does the jury get to see the first two parts of the final HOH? It would stand to reason that they do since they see the other comps, but for the life of me I cant remember the CBS show showing us the jury seeing the final comps. Maybe it happens off camera .. or maybe my memory just isnt what it used to be.

[peachmangosteen]

Now Liz has to win Part 2 for, I believe, it will ensure an all girl F2.

 

I am not super sure that Vanessa will take Liz. I could easily see it going either way. And honestly right now I lean towards her taking Steve, even though it's not actually her best move. But she'll beat them both so it doesn't really matter.

 

IMO Vanessa is favored to win Part 3 either against Steve or Liz. Vanessa has a fantastic memory and is very intuitive which is needed for the Part 3 type challenges. Steve could panic under pressure and Liz was too busy with Asstin to pay that much attention to other HG's.

 

Part 3 is honestly a complete crapshoot that literally anyone can win. It's just guessing and often times the jury will answer the opposite way so it's hard to even make educated guesses. It makes me so irate that the final comp is basically 100% luck based.

 

Does the jury get to see the first two parts of the final HOH? It would stand to reason that they do since they see the other comps, but for the life of me I cant remember the CBS show showing us the jury seeing the final comps. Maybe it happens off camera .. or maybe my memory just isnt what it used to be.

 

They don't show it it, but yea I assume they see the final comps.

[SiobhanJW]

Now Liz has to win Part 2 for, I believe, it will ensure an all girl F2. I'm tired of all this testosterone dominating ass hats that use women like Kleenex.

I think that once Steve dropped, Vanessa really didn't have all that much to get Liz to drop. Liz was hurting, especially her VJ. (I wonder why). IMO Vanessa is favored to win Part 3 either against Steve or Liz. Vanessa has a fantastic memory and is very intuitive which is needed for the Part 3 type challenges. Steve could panic under pressure and Liz was too busy with Asstin to pay that much attention to other HG's.

The thing is the Part 3 is a crapshoot. It's usually Jury questions like: Megs favorite part of the BB house was.. James scaring people.. Or sleeping all day. You never know what the answer will be, and sometimes on purpose the Jury will answer the question completely opposite of what it is because they want to throw them off.

So for Vanessa to 100% be guaranteed in the F2 she needs Liz to win Part 2 and I think she knows that.

[Cutty]

I don't actually think they get to see the final comps. Maybe part 3 because it's live, but the conclusion of part 1 and 2 both air during the finale and since they include DR sessions (which they don't let the jury see) I doubt they are backstage watching. I suppose they could theoretically bring them the comp footage on DVDs in the jury house but I haven't seen any past HG answer that question. 

[Ceeg]

I'm watching a Vanessa/Liz conversation from last night, where they're going over Austin's eviction, and Liz is so reasonable and understanding and basically said that Vanessa would have been an idiot to keep a showmance in the F4.  I really wish we could have seen the aftermath of Austin's eviction, because Vanessa has done one hell of a job winning Liz over after blindsiding her. Vanessa also gave her a "you don't need no man" pep talk. I want this Liz/Vanessa F2 to happen, PLEASE LIZ PLEASE WIN ROUND 2!

[Cutty]

Steve said Godfrey should have won BB Canada 3 and that Sarah sells marijuana. Both incorrect. 

 

For being a superfan he sure is wrong a lot. Then again he voted for Christine for American's Favorite last season, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that his BB opinions are mostly terrible.

[RedheadZombie]

Why would he need to?

.

Well I certainly didn't imply he NEEDS to, I simply asked if he's explained it. I read that the girls tried to talk him into taking a sip of champaign and he declined. I find that interesting.

[Cutty]

Vanessa also gave her a "you don't need no man" pep talk. 

 

Oh brother. Apparently earlier in the season Liz did need a man because Vanessa actively egged her on to showmance Austin.

[robertorv]

Count me in with the people that hate pt 3 of the final hoh. Its so stupid!

Id be shocked if Van doesnt take Liz to F2 if Van wins F3. Last night Van was telling Liz that getting Julia to tell her she was a twin, and then making her alliances with the twins was her best move in the game. She is right about that. And I believe that she believes it. I think that is a big part of the story she plans to sell the jury...all about how she saw an opportunity where everyone else saw a threat. Its a nice story to tell but it loses a lot of its impact if she wins final HOH and then picks Steve for F2.

[gunderda]

I don't think they get to see any of the final HOH comps including the 3rd part because it's usually a surprise to them who is voted out at #3. They all sit on stage and wait for the person to join them.  That person gets their own question to ask the F2 whereas the other jurors have to come up with questions as a group

[LADreamr]

Vanessa also gave her a "you don't need no man" pep talk.

Interesting from someone who's always in angst over whether her girlfriend still loves her.

Edited September 17, 2015 by LADreamr

[Ceeg]

Id be shocked if Van doesnt take Liz to F2 if Van wins F3. Last night Van was telling Liz that getting Julia to tell her she was a twin, and then making her alliances with the twins was her best move in the game. She is right about that. And I believe that she believes it. I think that is a big part of the story she plans to sell the jury...all about how she saw an opportunity where everyone else saw a threat. 

And in addition to getting the twin twist to work in her favor, she also said that as a result of the twins, Vanessa was able to create two over-lapping alliances (6S and F&G), so that if one part was targeted, they still had the other part to go forward with. And I also agree with that. The turning point in this game, for her, was Vanessa using the twin twist and then creating those two alliances. Because both alliances had the twins and Lizten in them, and one of the alliances actually had two showmances. So Vanessa ensured that, while she was clearly running things, she created the illusion that there were much bigger targets within her own alliances than Solo Dolo Vanessa.

 

So, her argument to the jury that her best move in the game was positioning herself to go deep by creating all these alliances and suballiances, while keeping the heat off her is a legitimate one.

Interesting from someone who's always in angst over whether her girlfriend still loves her.

Her comment about not needing a man was in relation to the game. Not her personal life. She meant that Liz doesn't need Austin to carry her to the end or to win comps or to hide behind. That Liz is a strong woman and she can win this game on her own.

[mooses]

Yeah, the third part of the HOH is pretty stupid. I don't know what would be better though - most competitions would give one or the other an advantage unless it's a straight up trivia competition like Days of Before/After. I actually think the "how bad do you want it" endurance competitions are perfect on their own. This one was pretty good before they made them sit on the apples to make it harder, which meant Steve's lack of arm strength bit him. Before that, it really was a how much can you take challenge.

Edited September 17, 2015 by mooses

[AndreaK1041]

It turned into a "how much can you take" challenge for Production, and the answer to that was 3 hours.  They should have just let it play out.

[blixie]

Yeah making the final HoH a crapshoot of a pure guessing game is bad, but I did like a version of that competion as regular HoH , it was guess who said this in the DR, I think that's a better option for F3 HoH, than the Jury can't fuck with the answers. 

[Waldo13]

And in addition to getting the twin twist to work in her favor, she also said that as a result of the twins, Vanessa was able to create two over-lapping alliances (6S and F&G), so that if one part was targeted, they still had the other part to go forward with. And I also agree with that. The turning point in this game, for her, was Vanessa using the twin twist and then creating those two alliances. Because both alliances had the twins and Lizten in them, and one of the alliances actually had two showmances. So Vanessa ensured that, while she was clearly running things, she created the illusion that there were much bigger targets within her own alliances than Solo Dolo Vanessa.

So, her argument to the jury that her best move in the game was positioning herself to go deep by creating all these alliances and suballiances, while keeping the heat off her is a legitimate one.

Her comment about not needing a man was in relation to the game. Not her personal life. She meant that Liz doesn't need Austin to carry her to the end or to win comps or to hide behind. That Liz is a strong woman and she can win this game on her own.

This is the crux of the problem that a woman needs a man to protect her and hide behind. The same with Survivor. This is why we see so few woman winners. Men, in reality shows, tend to use than abuse the women they are aligned with. I love Jordan, but her win was pure luck. Rachel's win was because she is a strong competitor and really didn't need Brendon. Vanessa's win or Liz's win will be just deserts for estrogen vs testosterone. I hope we see a new era, in BB and Survivor, that men are used than abused by women.

[Cutty]

I'm fine with the crapshoot aspect of the final part. Puts more emphasis on the strategic and social aspects of the game. If you have played your cards right you shouldn't need to win the final HOH.

[mooses]

This is the crux of the problem that a woman needs a man to protect her and hide behind. The same with Survivor. This is why we see so few woman winners. Men, in reality shows, tend to use than abuse the women they are aligned with. I love Jordan, but her win was pure luck. Rachel's win was because she is a strong competitor and really didn't need Brendon. Vanessa's win or Liz's win will be just deserts for estrogen vs testosterone. I hope we see a new era, in BB and Survivor, that men are used than abused by women.

Honestly, I know everyone says Austin was her game, but part of it is that Liz knew that, she was able to get him to do what she wanted including protecting her twin. She knew without him, she'd be exposed - and look what happened. Austin was perceived as a bigger target due to taking the driver's seat of the Austwins and Liz outlasted him.

Edited September 17, 2015 by mooses

[Ceeg]

I'm fine with the crapshoot aspect of the final part. Puts more emphasis on the strategic and social aspects of the game. If you have played your cards right you shouldn't need to win the final HOH.

I get that, in theory, but competitions and immunity are such a huge aspects of this game, it seems ridiculous that literally the most important comp in the entire game is a pure crapshoot. They don't pull that on Survivor. IMO the first 2 rounds should be intellectual type comps and the last round should be a pure "How bad do you want it?" endurance comp. But then that messes up the live comp and eviction that this show loves so much.

[Cutty]

This is the crux of the problem that a woman needs a man to protect her and hide behind. The same with Survivor. This is why we see so few woman winners. Men, in reality shows, tend to use than abuse the women they are aligned with. I love Jordan, but her win was pure luck. Rachel's win was because she is a strong competitor and really didn't need Brendon. Vanessa's win or Liz's win will be just deserts for estrogen vs testosterone. I hope we see a new era, in BB and Survivor, that men are used than abused by women.

 

I blame a lot on casting. They cast far more strong men than they do women on this show. I feel like half the females every season are just there as eye candy and who would probably rather be on The Bachelor. 

 

Robyn Kass does the casting for BB Canada, and they get great female players. So I wonder how much CBS is dictating these decisions. This season was a lot better though... Vanessa, Shelli, Jackie, Becky, Davonne, Audrey were all pretty strong minded females (if not the greatest game players). 

Edited September 17, 2015 by Cutty