Season 17 Live Feed Discussion: Watch People Sleep All Day!

[Ceeg]

Why does this mean the feeds will be down though?

Idk. I guess there are ceremonies and comps all day. And maybe a Pandora's Box? They said they heard construction in the HN room yesterday.

[mooses]

What I don't understand is if Vanessa nominates Steve and JMac, why would Liztin keep Steve? They know the comps that are coming up. He has a good shot of winning them.

I think it will flip to Steve if nominations stay the same. I guess she is trying not to piss off anyone before nominations are set. John doesn't matter because he already said he'd vote for her in F2. She knows he won't hold a grudge of he leaves.

Edited September 11, 2015 by mooses

[blixie]

The feeds are already down though and have been since at least 9 EST. 

 

N/m they just weren't loading for me.

Edited September 11, 2015 by blixie

[Eolivet]

Forgive me if this is rehashing others' arguments -- I'm just thinking aloud here. I don't think Vanessa's strategy is that bad for someone who isn't part of a pair. I think targeting John is a fine move -- you always boot the goat when you can, because when it's you vs. the goat (especially if the goat has a final 2 alliance with someone), you'll end up losing that battle. Leaving John and Steve intact means that everyone remaining (Liz/Austin, John and Steve) would likely boot her against anyone else. Leaving Liz/Austin in tact leaves a bigger target in the house and relies on Steve to focus on that bigger target (knowing if he doesn't, it's 2-on-1 for final 3 HoH). It almost forces Steve to keep her in that scenario (and Steve doesn't want her in the final 2, but as a numbers person, would recognize you don't want a final 3 HoH where if you lose, no one will take you.

 

I feel like Vanessa is making the only moves she can at this point. If Austin or Liz go, Vanessa has to win veto or she's gone. She's putting her faith in Steve's faith in numbers and rolling the dice to give herself a fighting chance. Since she isn't part of a pair, I think it's the only move she can make.

 

And her getting screwed over by Austin only happens if Austin wins veto, and that's a one in four shot, so I'm not ready to say she's getting screwed over by Austin just yet. She'll be screwed over by whoever wins veto, unless it's Steve (or obviously herself). And I think she knows this, so I can't fault her with trying to do the best thing she can to put herself in the best position, odds-wise. Even if it isn't what's best for the game in general, it is what's best for her game.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Eolivet

[Ceeg]

Yeah Vanessa is taking a gamble, but she's gotta do it no matter which pair she targets. Her choices are Steve/John or Liz/Austin. And Liz/Austin have a very good history of not fucking Vanessa over, plus Vanessa has been aligned with Austin since almost the first day, pre-showmance. Not that I think Vanessa has deluded herself into thinking Austin would pick her over Liz, if it came down to it. But Steve would pick John over Vanessa too, so it's moot. And I think for someone who's preached integrity on a constant basis, she's gotta go with Liz/Austin over Steve/John. She's been with them longer and despite all the shit-talking, they've never actively gone against her. 

 

Plus, she's correct in her assumption that if she's on the block with John, she's likely going home. It would be way too tempting to evict Vanessa over John, who's already been evicted once and hasn't won a damn thing. If she's on the block with Steve, she's got a fighting chance. I think Liz and Austin don't want Steve or John anywhere near the F2, so she's got the votes if she's on the block.

 

But, we're at a point where it almost doesn't even matter about deals. She's gotta win comps. John and Steve are the two who are most likely to challenge her comp strengths. She and John have done the best at similar endurance comps (spinning and eggs), and Steve is the only one who challenges her intellectually. If Liz is head-to-head against Vanessa in a questions comp, I'd take Vanessa.

 

Also, making a F3 deal with Austin and Liz, knowing that one of them will be throwing it (Austin basically has to, because he knows he's going to the F2 with both of them) has to be appealing. Steve and John aren't throwing shit to Vanessa at that point. And, as a viewer, (not something Vanessa is privy to) I know that Liz has said she'd rather Vanessa win than Steve or John. So I think Austin and Liz's F3 deal with Vanessa is sincere. 

Edited September 11, 2015 by Ceeg

[Arya]

You made some great points, Ceeg. When I logged on this morning and realized that my dream of finally being rid of Austin isn't coming true, I was livid! But you do make some great points, and this probably would be a better move for Vanessa. She's pretty screwed unless she wins some comps, but this way she has the slightest chance of staying if she does lose Veto next week.

[Cutty]

You really think Austin would throw the final HOH? I guess it doesn't matter because odds are Vanessa isn't beating him and Liz in part 1 anyway. So then Austin throws part 2 to her and it comes to down to part 3 - the HGs questions, which is mostly a crapshoot.

 

Assuming John goes next she's probably hoping Steve wins F4 veto and evicts one of Liztin. F3 with Steve/Austin is likely best case for her.

[Brian Cronin]

She decided she'd rather compete for POV against Austin/Liz than Steve/John and I don't think that makes any sense, as John hasn't won shit in weeks. 

[mooses]

She decided she'd rather compete for POV against Austin/Liz than Steve/John and I don't think that makes any sense, as John hasn't won shit in weeks.

Yeah, I get that. But I think she's more decided that she'd rather have her fate in Austin or Liz's hands than Steve or John's. But that requires Liz or Austin to win HOH next week. And her and the other to win Veto. Or if it's Steve making the decision between her and Liz or Austin, he'd want to break up the pair.

If Steve wins HOH, though, she's screwed without Veto.

Edited September 11, 2015 by mooses

[Ceeg]

You really think Austin would throw the final HOH? I guess it doesn't matter because odds are Vanessa isn't beating him and Liz in part 1 anyway. So then Austin throws part 2 to her and it comes to down to part 3 - the HGs questions, which is mostly a crapshoot.

He said he'll throw Part 1 to her. So she wins Part 1, then he and Liz will legitimately go H2H for Part 2 (I think). Then the winner will face Vanessa in Part 3. If Vanessa wins, she takes Austin. If Liz wins, she takes Austin. And if Austin wins, he's in the F2 anyway. It's win/win/win for Austin, and that way he doesn't have to choose between his girlfriend and scumbagging his first #1 in the game.

 

She's pretty screwed unless she wins some comps, but this way she has the slightest chance of staying if she does lose Veto next week.

I think Vanessa is just trying to set herself up for F3. If she can get to F3, I believe she thinks she can win that, and she knows she has to win that.

[mooses]

He said he'll throw Part 1 to her. So she wins Part 1, then he and Liz will legitimately go H2H for Part 2 (I think). Then the winner will face Vanessa in Part 3. If Vanessa wins, she takes Austin. If Liz wins, she takes Austin. And if Austin wins, he's in the F2 anyway. It's win/win/win for Austin, and that way he doesn't have to choose between his girlfriend and scumbagging his first #1 in the game.

Austin is in a great position now. I don't want him to win, but he'd be deserving and far from the grossest winner we've suffered through.

[Arya]

I don't want to see Austin in the Final 2, but it looks like it's almost guaranteed. He probably has the best shot out of all of them right now. It would ruin my viewing pleasure so this is what I hope happens: Liz/John nominated, Steve wins veto and takes down John, Austin up as replacement nom and finally is booted. Never gonna happen but I can dream!

Edited September 11, 2015 by Arya

[robertorv]

My guess is that they will have them tape something to air for BBAD while the feeds are down. I can remember them doing that the last couple of seasons but cant remember if the stuff they taped also ran on the feeds.

[blixie]

 

I don't think Vanessa's strategy is that bad for someone who isn't part of a pair.

 

 

I feel like Vanessa is making the only moves she can at this point.

 

No I agree Vanessa currently in this game has variety of sub-optimal moves she can make, but I personally don't see why/how the trade off of keeping Liz/Austin is MORE optimal than keeping John/Steve. What I see happening is Vanessa at cross purposes with her two biggest game weaknesses: paranoia and ego. She kept Liz last week to maintain two big pairs so that she could throw HoH to John, and be "safe", while also still being available for F4 HoH.  Instead her paranoia told her to win it out right and the source of that paranoia was about not trusting AUSTIN. And  yet, here she is about to trust Austin. Did she list out Austin's incentives for NOT scumbagging her? Cause if she couldn't do that, she should be nominating his ass and evicting him this week. 

 

To me it's not worth the gamble to keep TWO strongly bonded comp threats (in both physical and mental challenges) v. keeping two weakly bonded players one of whom isn't that great at comps, and the other who can only maybe win the mental ones, and both of whom she has a good chance against in F2. I don't think having bigger 'targets' at this stage of the game is worth the tradeoff threat of having bigger competition threats still in the game against you.

 

 

And Liz/Austin have a very good history of not fucking Vanessa over,

 

I think once you're at F5 that goes out the window: no body owes anybody shit, and the consequences of losing a HoH/Veto are what will send your ass out the door, so trusting anyone right now is a mistake. At least John was honest with her, Austin is still lying his face off. I think at the end of the day Van is just more okay with losing to Austin, than she is to losing to Johnny Mac.

 

 

And I think for someone who's preached integrity on a constant basis,

 

I already said I think this is her reason. And I hate it, and I do think it will cost her the 500K if she's next to Austin in the end.

Edited September 11, 2015 by blixie

[mooses]

I bet a big part of Steve's endgame was Vanessa taking out a Liztin. That way he could cut her at the end and spin it as him playing her the whole time, and her doing his dirty work for him.

Otherwise his game looks pretty weak next to anyone but John.

Edited September 11, 2015 by mooses

[Eolivet]

To me it's not worth the gamble to keep TWO strongly bonded comp threats (in both physical and mental challenges) v. keeping two weakly bonded players one of whom isn't that great at comps, and the other who can only maybe win the mental ones, and both of whom she has a good chance against in F2.

 

But it's worth it if she goes on the block, which is the only way she goes home (if someone nominates her). And she is always going to go home with John sitting there, waiting to be dragged to the end.

 

I also think it's worth it, because Steve isn't a "you betrayed me!" type of player -- he, too, knows the numbers. He's not going to be on a vengeance quest because someone evicted his bestie, whereas a pissed off Liz or Austin might be. If keeping Vanessa makes the most sense for his game, he's going to do it, not cut off his nose to spite his face. From everyone's descriptions, I feel like Vanessa may be counting on that rational mindset to work to her advantage.

 

I mean, look at how Austin flew off the handle (and won) when he thought he was the target last week? A complacent Austin and Liz are much better than either of them angry and motivated. Steve won't get angry or motivated if someone evicts John. He's not that type of player, in my mind.

[Ceeg]

I'm watching some of the conversations I missed last night, and I can't help but respect that Vanessa wants to go F2 with Austin because she thinks they've both played the best game. It might be a $450k mistake, but at least she's willing to compete against the best rather than drag a JMac to the end. One part of Big Brother that has always bothered me is that often the people who play the most shitty games and have no comp wins are the ones who get the farthest. When/if John is evicted this week, that's no longer an option. And I love that.

[blixie]

 

One part of Big Brother that has always bothered me is that often the people who play the most shitty games and have no comp wins are the ones who get the farthest. When/if John is evicted this week, that's no longer an option. And I love that.

 

 

Oh the one aspect of this I agree with her 100% on is that John doesn't really deserve to get any father, that talk he had with her might have been the final nail in the coffin of their alliance, since he's just so OFFENSIVELY terrible at this game, he actively convinces people to vote his ass out. I liked their alliance when he managed to not actively be an idiot, but he reminded me again that he is actively an idiot. As a viewer I'd rather see Van win, fuck loyalty and game integrity, fuck them both right in the ear. 

 

I do like that it will be four out of five of F&G I just hope by some miracle of God, or some sacrifice of goats to Satan it will be Van/Steve/Liz rather than any other combo.

[Callaphera]

ETA: I read someone mention this on Joker's, but was wondering if there was more to it: did anyone hear Vanessa's theory about John's message from home? That the air guitar means stick with the Rockstar alliance?

 

She seems to see these hidden messages a lot. How long until she grabs a roll of tin foil and starts lining the insides of the Green and Maroon Tuques of Doom? I really hope that when this is all said and done and she's been interviewed by whoever, they ask her if she really believed all these "hidden messages" she kept seeing or if this is just some weird, fucked up strategy of hers. 

[Ceeg]

I'm finally getting around to watch Vanessa and Steve's conversation in the HOH room last night. God, Steve. His "I don't understand what you're saying" innocent/naive schtick is such bad gameplay. I know he's socially awkward, but playing dumb doesn't help. It only makes him look shady as hell. Watching the juxtaposition between Vanessa's conversations with Austin and Liz and her conversations with Steve and John (although I haven't actually see the John one yet, I'll get to it later) makes it blatantly obvious why she's choosing Austin/Liz over Steve/John. Even if I didn't understand her game moves on a strategic level, I'd totally buy her doing it just because Steve and John are so bad at pleading a case and persuading someone to their side.

[mooses]

I'm finally getting around to watch Vanessa and Steve's conversation in the HOH room last night. God, Steve. His "I don't understand what you're saying" innocent/naive schtick is such bad gameplay. I know he's socially awkward, but playing dumb doesn't help. It only makes him look shady as hell. Watching the juxtaposition between Vanessa's conversations with Austin and Liz and her conversations with Steve and John (although I haven't actually see the John one yet, I'll get to it later) makes it blatantly obvious why she's choosing Austin/Liz over Steve/John. Even if I didn't understand her game moves on a strategic level, I'd totally buy her doing it just because Steve and John are so bad at pleading a case and persuading someone to their side.

 

I went back to see her talk to John last night and it was awful. Like painful. He did his John schtick and giggled and didn't say too much. He said he'd choose her over Steve...followed by a Johnny Mac laugh. There was no way to tell where his head actually was at because he gave nothing. He didn't even say anything about Austin and Liz.

I think if he played to Vanessa and gave a logical argument about numbers and how he wants things to play out for him (even if it's not true), she would have second guessed her decision. But instead he said, "I don't even know what to argue." 

 

I guess Julia didn't say anything to him before she left, because he'd be an idiot not to tell her.

 

She also said she wanted to throw it and thought about it, but Austin was too close - if her and John dropped an egg, it was too risky.

[Nashville]

[Vanessa] says when she first won HOH she was going to put up Austin and Liz and she had her reasons, but now she's switched to Johnny Mac. Steve said "they really schmoozed you" meaning Liz and Austin. Vanessa bristled at the idea that she'd been schmoozed and said he's wrong if he thinks she is "manipulatable".

Steve is right. She was schmoozed.

  

Right or not, this is actually an excellent tack for Steve to take with Vanessa. V is very prideful of her intellect, and she's going to find any suggestion she might have been successfully "schmoozed" - or that other HGs think she was - offensive in the extreme. Planting the idea in V's head that she let her own superior intellect be swayed by Austliz's blandishments might be the best way to get V to kick back to her own original plan of targeting Austliz.

Okay - Johnny Mac told Vanessa if she doesn't think she can beat him at Final Four Veto then put him up.

That flummoxed Vanessa.

She wants to just agree with him because that's what she wanted, but she can't quite bring herself to say OK I will.

He's being completely and absolutely honest with her, and he's willing to do whatever she says. He's not offering any insight - he even agrees with her 'nominate one from each side' plan. He agrees she doesn't have any way to know that he'll pick her over Steve. He says "my word is no good this week”. And he tells her she might not go to jury because everyone hates her (so she'd be the 'goat'), which really pushes her button. He tells her he hates everyone and wants to evict them all one by one.

She's not sure how to take it. She thanks him for being a straight shooter and not blowing smoke up her ass.

She doesn't really believe he knows what he's agreeing to when he says "uh-huh"

I don't know either.

In the end, he said a few things that made me think she was second guessing herself. But, Steve came up to HOH after and Vanessa said Johnny Mac is still the target. She did say that Johnny Mac has convinced her she's really hated in the jury and has no chance to win.

As it turns out I'm the one that's flummoxed. I still like Johnny Mac, but I'll be darned if I know why!

Okay - I'm giving up now.

I'm curious as to whether JMac has ever read up on chaos theory, because he's playing one hell of a chaos game. And by this I don't mean "chaotic", as in disorganized - but true chaos, as in the opposite of lawful or rule-bound.

Vanessa is/has been a professional gamer; she figuratively lives and dies by the Art Of the Deal - how best to achieve one's goals while minimizing the exposure of her true goals and motivations as much as possible. While their implementation may be complex, the actual rules are simple - get the other person to admit/expose the absolute maximum while you admit/expose the absolute minimum. John confuses the hell outta V, however, because the vast majority of the time he simply does not play by the rules as she understands them. V's game is all about the strategy, the more intricate and convoluted the better; in contrast, John's strategy is to have NO strategy. V conceals as much as possible, whereas John reveals EVERYTHING. V listens to everybody's spiels and tries to identify their attempts to manipulate; John makes absolutely no attempt to manipulate and says, "Do whatever you want to do."

V's thinking is north-south while John's is east-west, she can't wrap her mind around that, and that inability frustrates the hell out of her. Which gives rise to two possible results: either V ends up faking HERSELF out (which benefits John's game By damaging her own), or she chooses to totally disregard any input from John as pure distraction. The latter would probably be Vanessa's wisest option - but while Vanessa has frequently shown herself to be very smart, that's not necessarily the same thing as being wise. :)

[blixie]

 

She also said she wanted to throw it and thought about it, but Austin was too close - if her and John dropped an egg, it was too risky.

 

Eh Dropping an egg wasn't the only way to throw it, she just needed to loudly complain about a finger cramp and let John go by her.

 

Yeah I think John pisses V off by his refusal to even try to make an argument for why he should stay....like why are  you there dude?

[Vicky]

 I'm curious as to whether JMac has ever read up on chaos theory, because he's playing one hell of a chaos game. And by this I don't mean "chaotic", as in disorganized - but true chaos, as in the opposite of lawful or rule-bound.

 

I recall Steve and Johnny Mac having a conversation poolside one day in the last two or three weeks about politics.  

Johnny Mac said he didn't vote and isn't registered.  

He said he'd be fine with anarchy (I'm sorry I can't remember what day or time it was and I don't know of a quick way to look it up)

 

Ever since then I've thought he's trying to mess with everyone with no specific outcome in mind.

Moments later I see his lost and bewildered look in the house and I think he's just a guy in over his head.

 

He's an enigma alright.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Vicky

[Laika]

The funny thing is, before she left, I'm pretty sure Julia did tell JMac to be weary of Vanessa's multiple deals because last night I heard Liz tell Austin "I hope JMac doesn't tell Vanessa what Julia said." The fact that JMac didn't use his conversation with Julia as a tactic to perhaps at least try to get Vanessa to go after Liz/Austin makes me wonder where the hell JMac's head is. I was rooting for him, but wow.. I do not understand his approach.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Laika

[SpringTulips]

Ever since then I've thought he's trying to mess with everyone with no specific outcome in mind.

Moments later I see his lost and bewildered look in the house and I think he's just a guy in over his head.

 

The way I see it with JMac:  he didn't hook up in a showmance, he didn't have a twin, and he's not a quick thinker, smooth talker.  He has gotten quite far, considering all that and the fact that he was already voted out.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Well, here's hoping John wins veto.  And that Vanessa gets booted at final four.  Because I'm vindictive like that.

 

Get out of my head.

[mooses]

Eh Dropping an egg wasn't the only way to throw it, she just needed to loudly complain about a finger cramp and let John go by her.

I think she meant if they accidentally dropped them. Like if John dropped his after she slowed down it'd be too close.

[mooses]

John confuses the hell outta V, however, because the vast majority of the time he simply does not play by the rules as she understands them. V's game is all about the strategy, the more intricate and convoluted the better; in contrast, John's strategy is to have NO strategy. V conceals as much as possible, whereas John reveals EVERYTHING. V listens to everybody's spiels and tries to identify their attempts to manipulate; John makes absolutely no attempt to manipulate and says, "Do whatever you want to do."

V's thinking is north-south while John's is east-west, she can't wrap her mind around that, and that inability frustrates the hell out of her.

I do think he totally confuses her. She basically was just like, "You're a character" the whole time. But I don't think John reveals everything while Vanessa conceals as much as possible. That whole conversation was basically Vanessa telling him her whole plan and what she's thinking and John being like, "Sounds good!"

I think her and Steve were right about him trying to Dr. Will now, though.

[kellog010]

On paper it does make sense you would nominate the power couple and stick with John and Steve. However, with the house dynamics, I think Vanessa sees that if she goes into F4 with one of Liztin gone, John/Steve won't be picking her for F3. By getting rid of John she is basically forcing Steve's hand. Either go into F3 with Liztin or take one out at F4. It's her best shot at surviving next week.

 

If Liztin win HOH, maybe they still screw her over but maybe they honor that F3 deal. If John is there, they are taking John over her no question. With Steve, she has a shot of staying over him. I think taking out the goats is the right thing since she's such a huge threat and needs someone somewhat equally threatening as her sitting next to her on the block.

 

Either way she has to win the POV next week.

[Cutty]

That's a good read on things, kellog.

One thing I will note is Vanessa has been hyper aware of how dangerous keeping a goat around is. I remember her talking about how dangerous it was to leave Meg in the game clear back when Shelli was still around.

I think Victoria ruined that strategy. It's funny but she's basically a verb at this point.

[Arya]

Are the feeds coming back this weekend at all?

[Ceeg]

I went back to see her talk to John last night and it was awful. Like painful. He did his John schtick and giggled and didn't say too much. He said he'd choose her over Steve...followed by a Johnny Mac laugh. There was no way to tell where his head actually was at because he gave nothing. He didn't even say anything about Austin and Liz.

I think if he played to Vanessa and gave a logical argument about numbers and how he wants things to play out for him (even if it's not true), she would have second guessed her decision. But instead he said, "I don't even know what to argue." 

Okay, I've just watched the Vanessa/John conversation. Jesus, John. That might be the worst BB game conversation I've ever heard.  It went something like:

John: I'll give you a run for your money in that F4 veto comp. I'm just sayin', if you don't think you can beat me, put me up.

Vanessa: *incredulous stare* So you're telling me to put you up?

John: Yeah *laughs*

 

It's like an AU dentist version of Dr. Will. Without the charm and magnetism. It almost (almost) makes me miss Meg. Also, I apologize for calling John a gamer last week. I take it back x infinity.

[Eolivet]

By getting rid of John she is basically forcing Steve's hand. Either go into F3 with Liztin or take one out at F4. It's her best shot at surviving next week.

 

Would Liz take Steve over Austin to F2? No, right? Would she even take Vanessa? I know Austin has everyone thinking that everyone will take him at final 2, but the question is what does Steve believe. In order for Vanessa's plan to work, she has to have Steve believing neither Austin nor Liz would take him to the final 2.

 

(And while I'm on the subject of Steve, allow me to vent about him his HoH blog where he attributes the strategy of taking two people who aren't aligned with each other to final 3 as "Derrick's strategy." Because...y'know, Dan taking Danielle and Ian wasn't that or anything. And other examples I'm sure from earlier seasons. Man, I wish Derrick's production advantages were treated with the same contempt as Rachel Reilly's. Rant over.)

 

However, I look forward to future seasons where a houseguest has no real non-game relationships, many alliances, can and does win competitions, is super emotional and acts manic half the time, and people saying "Wow, he/she is really pulling a Vanessa." Love her or hate her, she's one of a kind.

[lilabennet]

On paper it does make sense you would nominate the power couple and stick with John and Steve. However, with the house dynamics, I think Vanessa sees that if she goes into F4 with one of Liztin gone, John/Steve won't be picking her for F3. By getting rid of John she is basically forcing Steve's hand. Either go into F3 with Liztin or take one out at F4. It's her best shot at surviving next week.

 

If Liztin win HOH, maybe they still screw her over but maybe they honor that F3 deal. If John is there, they are taking John over her no question. With Steve, she has a shot of staying over him. I think taking out the goats is the right thing since she's such a huge threat and needs someone somewhat equally threatening as her sitting next to her on the block.

 

Either way she has to win the POV next week.

If Vanessa knows that either way she has to win POV next week, then why is she targeting the person least likely to win it?  No matter how much John claims that he would give her a run for her money for the POV next week, he is still the weakest comp threat left in the game.  If Vanessa is worried that John will give her a run for her money, then she should be even more worried that Austin or Liz would beat her by a landslide.

[peachmangosteen]

My guess is that they will have them tape something to air for BBAD while the feeds are down. I can remember them doing that the last couple of seasons but cant remember if the stuff they taped also ran on the feeds.

 

The feeds will be back before BBAD comes on.

 

Are the feeds coming back this weekend at all?

 

Yes. Today at 11:30 BBT. They will probably go down again sometime between tomorrow and Monday until after the show on Tuesday.

 

If Vanessa is worried that John will give her a run for her money, then she should be even more worried that Austin or Liz would beat her by a landslide.

 

I think she probably figures Steve/John are more of a threat in the F4 veto than Liz/Austin. I think she's wrong though. Liz knows all the info just as well as Vanessa does.

Edited September 11, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Arya]

Yes. Today at 11:30 BBT. They will probably go down again sometime between tomorrow and Monday until after the show on Tuesday.

Thanks! I thought they'd be back but wasn't sure when.

[bobthefrog]

My absolute favorite part of John and Vanessa's conversation was her saying “You and Steve are a cute showmance though. Effectively, you’re a showmance in my mind. You might as well be making out."

[TheRealT]

If Vanessa knows that either way she has to win POV next week, then why is she targeting the person least likely to win it?  No matter how much John claims that he would give her a run for her money for the POV next week, he is still the weakest comp threat left in the game.  If Vanessa is worried that John will give her a run for her money, then she should be even more worried that Austin or Liz would beat her by a landslide.

Yeah, this makes no sense to me either. I think Vanessa does her game calculations based on raw numbers, like if you're in a contest with 3 other players you have a 25% chance of winning. If, however, the contest is a tennis tournament and Serena Williams is one of the other players, your chances of winning are really less than 25%. I don't get how she accounts for that kind of thing. She would crush Johnny Mac in F2, which is not as certain with the other 3, and his comp history makes him the least likely to beat her in future comps, so it makes no sense that he'd be her target.

[Katesus7]

I would think Vanessa's targets would be Liz/Steve. Liz - she really has no relationship with, at least not like her relationships with Austin or Julia. Steve, because he has to be her biggest "brain" comp threat, and who she knows would choose Johnny Mac over her. John.....has the goat thing going for him, which fine, but I feel that Liz is a much bigger threat to her end game than John is. Or maybe not, I'm not nearly as smart as Vanessa, I'm sure she's run every single possible scenario in her head, and calculated the odds. With plenty of incentives thrown in (that sounds way more snarky than I mean it to be. She IS way smarter than I am, and I'm 100% sure she has run through every single possible outcome. Many, many times).

But if I were her, knowing what I think she knows, yeah. Steve/Liz for me.

[mooses]

Honestly, I don't think she'd care if Steve or John win Veto and an Austiz went home. Then, it wouldn't really be her fault and she wouldn't lose the twins' jury votes.

She's heard the Austwins threaten jury votes, and while I don't think Austin is serious, I think the twins might be bitter jury members. She doesn't want to lose those votes by straight up betraying them.

Edited September 12, 2015 by mooses

[Turtle]

I think it's today from 9:45am-11:30pm BBT.

  

What? Well that is very strange. What is the reason for this? It obviously isn't for the eviction. So they'll have to go down again for the eviction. Weird.

  

Yeah I'm confused about why there is Feed Blackout so are they really speeding it up (Noms/Veto/Eviction)? Or are they going down TWICE? Like that is some bullshit.

They'll do a taped (instead of live) eviction for Tuesday's show, and so they did noms and veto comp today. I think the veto ceremony will happen this weekend, and the actual eviction on Monday. The feeds will come back in a couple of hours (2:30 am eastern) and then will go out again on Monday (I think) until after the show airs on Tuesday, so we won't know who got evicted until it's shown on the episode. It's annoying, and I wish they didn't do it this way. This is a 90+ day season- there was plenty of schedule flexibility to plan for Thursday evictions throughout.

[Nashville]

I recall Steve and Johnny Mac having a conversation poolside one day in the last two or three weeks about politics.  

Johnny Mac said he didn't vote and isn't registered.  

He said he'd be fine with anarchy (I'm sorry I can't remember what day or time it was and I don't know of a quick way to look it up)

 

Ever since then I've thought he's trying to mess with everyone with no specific outcome in mind.

Moments later I see his lost and bewildered look in the house and I think he's just a guy in over his head.

 

He's an enigma alright.

 

ITA.  I'm still trying to figure out exactly what mix of fucking genius and fucking idiot comprises his combo platter.

[pennben]

Honestly, I don't think she'd care if Steve or John win Veto and an Austiz went home. Then, it wouldn't really be her fault and she wouldn't lose the twins' jury votes.

She's heard the Austwins threaten jury votes, and while I don't think Austin is serious, I think the twins might be bitter jury members. She doesn't want to lose those votes by straight up betraying them.

 

But if, let's say John wins veto and Austin goes up, unless John/Liz agree to vote out Austin, won't Liz vote out Steve; John vote out Austin, and boom, Vanessa has to break the tie so it would be her fault if Austin goes home, same if Liz goes in that scenario.

Edited September 12, 2015 by pennben

[Brian Cronin]

Yeah, if Vanessa is actually dedicated to Austin/Liz, then they're safe no matter what, as she'll break any tie in their favor. The only interesting thing left will be if the Veto is not used this week, then would Austin and Liz dare fuck Vanessa over and vote Steve out over John? It would be in their best interest to do that, but they might feel some loyalty to Vanessa for not putting them up this week. 

 

Anyways, like I said last night, however this shakes down, people are at a place where any one of them could be voted out next week or the week after depending on how the comps go, so I while I do think it is a mistake to target the worst competitor in the house when competitions are so important I also think it is such a crapshoot that it could be an AWFUL move (and I don't think it is an awful move, just not a good one) and it really wouldn't matter much. Vanessa just needs to win some comps and I think Vanessa has a good chance at winning that F4 POV, so all of this is pretty much just noise.

 

EDITED TO ADD: Feeds are back. Looks like I'll have a lot of fastforwarding to do on Sunday, as Liz and Vanessa went to an Ariana Grande concert with Frankie. John is currently offering to throw the veto to Liz and Austin if they'll keep him around. It won't work, but heck, it's at least AN attempt at working things out with the Austwins by John, which is a step up for him. 

 

EDITED AGAIN TO ADD: And, like I figured, they didn't buy anything he was saying. "He's so crazy." Now they plan to tell Vanessa everything he told them. 

Edited September 12, 2015 by Brian Cronin

[Donny Ketchum]

Well, rereading the thread, and getting up to the awesome week when Clay and Shelli pretty much burned themselves, I came across this from prior to Jason's eviction:

 

Jason: You're so socially inept that no one is scared of you. You'll be in the final 5 easily.
Steve: Thank you.

Looks like that came to fruition.

[Zahdii]

Liz and Vanessa had to go to an Ariana Grande concert with Frankie?  Why?  Are they being punished for something?  I think I would have begged to stay in the BB house.  Send Austin, he'll be convinced that Ariana is singing love songs just for him and making up a romance a la 'The Bodyguard'. 

 

It'd be hilarious if he broke up with Liz on the spot, or during one of his infamous roaming fingers cuddle sessions called her 'Ariana' by mistake.

[Katesus7]

I'll be out of town for Sunday's episode. Thinking I'll just delete this one from my DVR. No thank you to Frankie or Arianna concerts.

Oh Johnny Mac, I like you, but you are so, so stupid. You don't throw shit at final five when you are on the block. Where is the Johnny Mac that laughed incredulously when Shelli/Clay asked you not to use the veto you won on yourself? I want that guy back!

[mooses]

Oh Johnny Mac, I like you, but you are so, so stupid. You don't throw shit at final five when you are on the block. Where is the Johnny Mac that laughed incredulously when Shelli/Clay asked you not to use the veto you won on yourself? I want that guy back!

I think he's just trying have an insurance policy in case he loses Veto. If people didn't suspect he was throwing competitions so often, then maybe they won't suspect he's actually trying either.

[peachmangosteen]

I can't decide if I think John's actually throwing comps or if he's just bad at them and saving face tbh. But with how he's been acting the past couple weeks I think he's just throwing them as 'strategy.' Whoever said he's trying to be Dr. Will is right on, I believe. It's actually very embarrassing to watch. And helps me understand why I hate him so much. I hated Dr. Will, too.

 

It's been said but honestly how is being subjected to Frankie a luxury? That's more like cruel and unusual punishment. Poor Liz and Vanessa.

 

So they didn't even have the veto comp? I guess it'll be today then, like normal. Weird. Why did the feeds needs to be down all day yesterday?

Edited September 12, 2015 by peachmangosteen