Season 17 Live Feed Discussion: Watch People Sleep All Day!

[MV007]

Actually, the producers gave a very unfair edge to Liz by allowing her twin to be THE ONLY twin playing the game. Liz and Julia are a win/win in a f2 if they manage to get there and what other HG had that advantage at the starting gate? 

 

I was merely pointing out that this house is so full of terrible game players that one of the front runners to win can make a blatantly terrible mistake in telling a competitor that they are leaving when it is supposed to be a secret and yet she faces no repercussions.

[Nashville]

Actually, the producers gave a very unfair edge to Liz by allowing her twin to be THE ONLY twin playing the game. Liz and Julia are a win/win in a f2 if they manage to get there and what other HG had that advantage at the starting gate?

Well... to be fair, the twin twist was initially more hindrance than advantage. The only reason Lizia survived five evictions was because a relatively powerful existing alliance saw advantage in preserving a relationship which would up its numbers further on down the road, and took the twins under its protection. Without that protection, Liz (and with her Julia) would have been out of the Game around Week 3 or 4.

Also - the primary reason Jason presented as a viable alternative to the Austin BD was because Jason threatened a relationship the reigning HoH alliance valued. If Jason had simply kept his mouth shut, this could have been a very different game.

ETA: substituted "primary" for "only"

Edited August 17, 2015 by Nashville

[mooses]

I love how Asstin, Liz, Julia, and Beckey gets offended, by Vanessa, when they would do exactly the same in a heartbeat. Kudos to Beckey for thinking that after she got Shelley out she could persuade Liz to get another member of alliance out. Hopefully Asstin and the twins don't take the bait.

Vanessa should of just chilled out in talking to John and own up to her past transgressions. John, Steve, James and Vanessa could have been a really good alliance. I don't understand Vanessa at all because, as a professional poker player, you have to be cool, calm, and unemotional. She is definitely not reading the table.

They are also really upset she's getting paranoid about them when, in this instance, she actually should be. They've basically been shunning get since last week and it's noticeable.

It seems like she's actually pretty introverted in real life. You have to socialize in this game, which she isn't very good at. So she only talks game instead of like a normal person. And it would explain why she's extra emotional when she feels left out, like last night. Like, you don't want to talk to people, but then you don't understand why no one likes you or asks you to hang out when it's really your (her) fault. Most of that emotion is probably like Steve though: 50% real.

Liz and Austin have been saying how fun James and Meg are and how much they trust them, so Summer Camp Strategy is working great both ways.

But I read Austin saying the DR is hinting he should work with John. Eye roll. Guess he's here for the long run.

Edited August 17, 2015 by mooses

[Callaphera]

Yawn. Big surprise. The Veto wasn't used.

[mooses]

Yawn. Big surprise. The Veto wasn't used.

Think Becky will blow up the Austwins game once she realizes she's been the target all along?

Probably too risky since she knows she might come back.

 

ETA: Vanessa told Austin she made a lot of money gambling. Yeah, that'll help.

Edited August 17, 2015 by mooses

[Ceeg]

 

12:14 PM JMac: "I've lost Clay, Shelli. If I stay I lose Becky." Meg: "Well we're still here, chuggin' along."

I can't with this guy's obsession with Clelli.

[gina64]

John is my favorite but Jesus! He needs to snap out of it.

 

I see Vanessa is right back to her post-Veto self.

[mooses]

Austin must be jumping up and down inside because Vanessa is leaning towards throwing the next HOH.

 

Now we know why Vanessa was reading the BB rule book the other night - she asked DR if she's allowed to make a deal to split the winnings.

Edited August 17, 2015 by mooses

[MV007]

As anyone ever said the word "deal" as much as Vanessa?  It's driving me crazy.  It's deal this and deal that and lets make a deal and they don't stick to their deals.  There is no way I could be in the house with Vanessa and not call her on her shit.   

Edited August 17, 2015 by MV007

[gina64]

Austin must be jumping up and down inside because Vanessa is leaning towards throwing the next HOH.

 

 

Ah but wait! 

From Joker's:

12:59 PM Vanessa now says she's going to try "really really really hard" to win HOH this week. -AdamAndEvel

 

I don't have the feeds, just following along here, at Joker's and Twitter, but...I don't know if I can do it anymore. lol These people.

[Ceeg]

It's gotten to that point in the house where you can't really believe anything someone says until you hear them repeat more than a few times and get approval from other people. So, for me, most of what they say goes in one ear and out the other, because they don't have much else to talk about except all scenarios possible.

[yankee1151]

I don't think there's any way in hell Vanessa throws anything from here on out. She's bad at reading a room (in terms of knowing when to chill and not appear to need to control everything, hence the rampant distrust) but she's not an idiot and knows she's a huge target. She also knows she's the most expendable to her alliance, not only because they are talking about getting rid of her but simply for obvious reasons - even if they fully trusted her and she them, she will ALWAYS be 4th wheel with Austwins. She can't rely on Steve because he tells everyone what they want to hear and would sacrifice her in a heartbeat if pressured (even a little bit), and he's actively throwing every comp unless he himself is on the block. Vanessa needs to win next week or she's in major danger and she knows this. 

 

OTOH, virtually everyone else in that house needs to wake the fuck up and just break up the Austwins already, and Austwins need to focus on James/JMac before Vanessa anyway. They might think it's good for them to have one of those two take out Vanessa, but then what? James/JMac won't go after Meg or Steve before Austwins, and Vanessa will no longer be there as a shield. And despite all the distrust with Vanessa/Austwins, I seriously don't see her targeting them if she wins this week. She knows JMac needs to go first because he's after her like a dog with a bone, just like Becky. And Austwins know this. I think for self preservation for all of them, the stupid ass Austin's Angels alliance needs to stick together at least another week or two. Meanwhile Steve and Meg will just float along to F4... 

[Cutty]

JMac's gameplay is so bad I wouldn't be surprised if this flips back and he goes home Thursday. Becky is pretty good when she's talking to Austin and the twins, convincing them she's going after Vanessa. Whereas JMac doesn't really say anything. "Welp, you guys decide what you wanna do." When/if Becky starts to campaign to them I think she could sway them pretty easily.

 

In all honesty, if Austin and the twins only care about their safety then they should keep Becky. She's a lot easier to read than JMac because she is very direct. Also booting JMac weakens Steve. I can't really think of any good reason why they [Austwins] would keep him over Becky.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Cutty

[Ceeg]

And despite all the distrust with Vanessa/Austwins, I seriously don't see her targeting them if she wins this week. She knows JMac needs to go first because he's after her like a dog with a bone, just like Becky. And Austwins know this. I think for self preservation for all of them, the stupid ass Austin's Angels alliance needs to stick together at least another week or two. 

I agree with this, only tbh, I think they should stick together as long as they possibly can. Sticking together is how the Nerd Herd were able to last so long in BB6, and why Maggie ultimately won IMO. It was a cult, but it was a cult that was ultimately impenetrable. If Ivette or April or anyone had turned on them, I think Janelle's alliance would have steamrolled their way to the end.

Vanessa isn't going to turn on the Austwins until she has to. Vanessa isn't going to turn on Steve until she has to. Not as long James and Meg and John and an evicted HG (other than Shelli) are options, or until she gets A Reason big enough to warrant backstabbing them. And, if the Austwins turn on Vanessa, then guess who becomes the House's biggest target?

[mooses]

JMac's gameplay is so bad I wouldn't be surprised if this flips back and he goes home Thursday. Becky is pretty good when she's talking to Austin and the twins, convincing them she's going after Vanessa. Whereas JMac doesn't really say anything. "Welp, you guys decide what you wanna do." When/if Becky starts to campaign to them I think she could sway them pretty easily.

 

In all honesty, if Austin and the twins only care about their safety then they should keep Becky. She's a lot easier to read than JMac because she is very direct. Also booting JMac weakens Steve. I can't really think of any good reason why they [Austwins] would keep him over Becky.

 

Becky's talking to them right now, and she's selling Vanessa hard. I agree that Liz and Austin can be really easily swayed, and I won't be surprised if John leaves on Thursday. Especially since Vanessa wants Becky gone so badly and they hate her now.

John's biggest issue is he doesn't regroup. He's been moping about Clelli for two weeks while everyone else has made new connections including his bestie (he thinks) Becky. 

I think they want Becky gone because she's basically the new Jackie in the ADC alliance while John is still floating around. I think it's like last week for James - can't really go wrong getting rid of either one.

 

Julia wants to keep Vanessa. Liz does not. Austin is more on Julia's side, but who knows. They sway this way, they sway that way...

 

ETA: Just kidding, Austin agrees with Liz. And they don't think that Shelli hates Vanessa. Julia thinks Shelli would go after Vanessa. Poor Julia, so right and so overshadowed.

Edited August 17, 2015 by mooses

[bobthefrog]

The Austwins want to keep John because he promised them that if he won HoH he would target Vanessa and use James/Meg as his pawns. Since Becky is close with James/Meg, Austwins don't beleive that she'd risk using them as pawns. Therefore they feel like there's a good chance that THEY could get used as pawns. Also, at this point they've promised both John and Steve that Liz/Austin/Julia will keep John. If they break that promise to Steve without good cause ("a reason"), they risk him turning on them. Austwins are all about decreasing the chances that they go on the block. Liz said that the only way Becky stays is if she gives them some serious dirt on John. And I'm not sure that Becky even has that. But if she did, based on this week, I don't think she's willing to throw John under the bus like that.

[Cutty]

So, Austin wants to keep JMac because he's worried about Jackie coming back with Becky still in the house. That's pretty stupid reasoning, esp. considering the same logic could be applied to JMac if Shelli won the buy back.

[Ceeg]

So, Austin wants to keep JMac because he's worried about Jackie coming back with Becky still in the house. That's pretty stupid reasoning, esp. considering the same logic could be applied to JMac if Shelli won the buy back.

Yeah, but Shelli would be less likely to target the Austwins than Jackie. John&Shelli is a lot less threatening to them than Becky&Jackie&James&Meg.

[Cutty]

The Austwins want to keep John because he promised them that if he won HoH he would target Vanessa and use James/Meg as his pawns. Since Becky is close with James/Meg, Austwins don't beleive that she'd risk using them as pawns. 

 

Ah, that makes some sense.

 

If I was in that house I'd be keeping Becky just because JMac appears so unpredictable. He doesn't give away anything, really. Whereas Becky doesn't shut up.

Yeah, but Shelli would be less likely to target the Austwins than Jackie. John&Shelli is a lot less threatening to them than Becky&Jackie&James&Meg.

 

Possibly but I think any returner is going to target them, and especially if Vanessa is gone. Booted HGs sitting around talking in jury has a way to make the game more clear, which is why the returning juror thing is so unfair. Then again, this game isn't about fairness.

[Ceeg]

Julia (smartly) thinks they need to wait until after the Evicted HG comes back before they send out Vanessa. Austin and Liz seem to want her out next week. That makes no sense to me, but okay. Nothing any of these HGs do make much sense to me most of the time anyway.

[Artsda]

Julia makes sense. However, if they send out someone bad at endurance (Vanessa) less chance they'll return. Johnny Mac was great at the last endurance and fell at the deal point with James.

[MV007]

To be fair to Austin, he knows Vanessa orchestrated a plan to backdoor him earlier in the game.  I think he has every right to be cautious when it comes to her.  

[Ceeg]

Julia makes sense. However, if they send out someone bad at endurance (Vanessa) less chance they'll return. Johnny Mac was great at the last endurance and fell at the deal point with James.

Becky actually won an endurance though. And they're purposely lying to her, pretending she's staying. Not exactly how you want to treat someone who might come back into the house. Currently, the Austwins are in the best position in the house, but what they do from now until next week's eviction are going to have a big impact on whether they can get to the end or not IMO.

[mooses]

To be fair to Austin, he knows Vanessa orchestrated a plan to backdoor him earlier in the game.  I think he has every right to be cautious when it comes to her.  

 

Yeah, I think it's better for the twins for Vanessa to stay - particularly Julia, since Vanessa is her Austin. But Vanessa is gunning for Austin first, so Liz and him want her gone. Julia did say that she can't put Vanessa up if she wins HOH, and they told her it's better for her not to win anyway.

Liz complained that Julia doesn't do anything and will probably make if farther than her after Julia left HOH, though, so maybe she likes having Julia be at the mercy of her and Austin.

[AndreaK1041]

And they're purposely lying to her, pretending she's staying. Not exactly how you want to treat someone who might come back into the house. 

Or at the very least, on the jury! I do not think any of these people are good at jury management whatsoever.

[Cutty]

We don't even know what the challenge will be. Last year's was a crapshoot with the table discs. Year before Judd won the tennis ball endurance (which they've already used this season). Given who the competitors will be I hope it involves some skill. 

Edited August 17, 2015 by Cutty

[Nashville]

Possibly but I think any returner is going to target them, and especially if Vanessa is gone. Booted HGs sitting around talking in jury has a way to make the game more clear, which is why the returning juror thing is so unfair. Then again, this game isn't about fairness.

This assumes, of course, the evicted HGs are chatting it up in the JH, and not individually sequestered until the "returning HG" twist is resolved....

[Cutty]

This assumes, of course, the evicted HGs are chatting it up in the JH, and not individually sequestered until the "returning HG" twist is resolved....

 

They haven't been sequestered the last two seasons. A big reason why Judd came back wanting Amanda out is because of what everyone told him in jury. 

 

Edit: typed Vanessa in place of Amanda. Freudian slip. 

Edited August 17, 2015 by Cutty

[Cutty]

As far as the comp goes they will rig it to suit whoever they want back. If JMac goes I'll guarantee they would do some type of veto-esque comp. Hell, I wouldn't put it past Grodner to do a straight fan vote knowing he would win and then have him compete against one HG in a remove plaque from teeth competition. Similar to BB13 when Brendan "won" the vote then had to beat Lawon in a basketball shooting comp. I have to laugh thinking back at how rigged that entire thing was.

[Nashville]

They haven't been sequestered the last two seasons. A big reason why Judd came back wanting Amanda out is because of what everyone told him in jury. 

They also split the Jury demarc across the DE the last two seasons. :>

I'm not saying they aren't all yukking it up together in the JH - I'm just not automatically assuming it.

[bobthefrog]

They also split the Jury demarc across the DE the last two seasons. :>

I'm not saying they aren't all yukking it up together in the JH - I'm just not automatically assuming it.

No they didn't.

Season 15 DE: Candice/Judd. Candice was the first member of the jury.

Season 16 DE: Jocasta/Hayden. Jocasta was the first member of the jury.

[Cutty]

Julia: What happened in season 14, there was a fight?

Austin: Someone got kicked out. Will.

Julia: Dr. Will?

LOL. Stupid recruits.

[blixie]

 

Yeah, I think it's better for the twins for Vanessa to stay - particularly Julia, since Vanessa is her Austin. But Vanessa is gunning for Austin first, so Liz and him want her gone. Julia did say that she can't put Vanessa up if she wins HOH, and they told her it's better for her not to win anyway.

Liz complained that Julia doesn't do anything and will probably make if farther than her after Julia left HOH, though, so maybe she likes having Julia be at the mercy of her and Austin.

 

Caught this conversation earlier, and I found it really interesting how high Julia's bitch face was rising during it, and how much you could see her brain cranking. I think she is pretty much OVER IT when it comes to Austin/Liz running her game, and would not be at all surprised to see her fake throwing it and "accidentally" win HoH. I'm not sure when The Austwins supposedly decided that they hate Vanessa, but have yet to see it in game play practice, and I can never get on board with talking about what "the twins" want because they so clearly have VERY different ideas about HOW to get to the end. Julia may or may not hate Vanessa, but she's not a dumbass like most of the other players in the house (excepting Becky and sometimes James/Steve, but only sometimes), and she knows sticking with Vanessa for as long as possible is the BEST thing for her game (especially should Liz get bounced), since indeed she wasn't able to form unique and distinct relationships with these people during the first five weeks, everything she did helped Lizzers game, w/o establishing her own.

 

I agree that Vanessa won't be throwing anything, but I think since she's not a comp beast, it's likely she won't be winning a ton, and as long as she can make the BIG key move of making the whole house SEE that Austwins NEED to be blown up w/o having it traced back to her, that would work out better for her. It does require subtlety that I'm not sure my girl possesses. She'd have to work with Steve and I think he'd be on board to ditch Liz and have the twin who genuinely likes him left (or ditching Austin and suggesting himself as more reliable competition winning ally). I also still think she can (and has previously) pulled James, in this case they are the only ones who half a brain who will follow any bread crumbs w/o running right to the triumverate to rat out the whole IDEA that anyone might dare to break up the most solid/unbreakable F2/F3 left in the game. JESUS. I'd love her to explain it in purely hypothetical mathematical terms with like popsicle stick hammies on the kitchen counter to James. Trying to explain to Johnny Mac who is otherwise smart enough to get it, is hopeless as he is still sitting Shiva for Clelli, staring off into space with glistening eyes and heaving chest about all that he's lost. 

 

I also see everyone in the house continuing to spend more time trying to calculate what WILL specifically happen next week then what needs to happen right now and the best possible outcome moving forward in general way. Julia is, and I think Vanessa is as always since she was up their kissing their ass about Austin's Angels, and I felt so bad for her in that moment I could read the inner puke face as she said it.

[njbarmaid]

You couldn't pay me enough to eat anything that hairy non handwashing beast cooked. Ewwwwwwuuuuuuhhhhhh

[mooses]

Steve pushing John to work with Austin. Blergh!

In lighter news, this cooking competition they've got going on reaffirms that Julia > Liz.

Edited August 18, 2015 by mooses

[Katesus7]

Oh good lord. I will always like Johnny Mac, and am not sorry about that, and I sort of kind of sometimes like Steve. But those two are making a very random attempt at talking strategy right now, and are both so awkward and goofy and weird, that neither one of them comes to any kind of coherent thought.

John makes the good point that if they get rid of Vanessa, it's going to be the Austwins, those two, and Meg and James as the three groups, and Steve/John are a bigger threat than Meg and James. Steve is offering nothing but constantly asking John questions, but in the most awkward way possible. I just want to go in there, sit these boys down (and yes, being in my 40's, they very much feel like boys to me), and tell them to get their shit together.

But seriously. Most awkward attempt at strategizing ever. Ever!

Oh lord, the strategy seems to be sticking with the Austwins. Because of course.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Katesus7

[yankee1151]

 Trying to explain to Johnny Mac who is otherwise smart enough to get it, is hopeless as he is still sitting Shiva for Clelli, staring off into space with glistening eyes and heaving chest about all that he's lost. 

Still laughing. Also, I have NO IDEA where JMac's Clay love came from. Was that a thing before Clelli were on the block?? 

[SiobhanJW]

I just don't get how no one is targeting the AusTwins. If I were Julia or Steve/John I would weaponize Vanessa. Tell her what Austin (in the case of Julia) or AusTwins (in the case of Steve/John) have been saying and get her to go after them.

Do I think Vanessa is a serious threat in this game, yes I do. But I think the AusTwins are a bigger problem. I think all of this Vanessa hatred and obsession everyone seems to have needs to go by the wayside and they need to get preferably Liz out next or at least Austin.

[mooses]

Oh lord, the strategy seems to be sticking with the Austwins. Because of course.

 

I don't get it! Steve really pushing for a F5 with the Austwins when I don't understand what Austwins plus John gets him. Except show John that Steve is working with them - which of course, John won't see or believe because, for some reason, he seems blind to how the house relationships have settled. Steve must really want that if he's pushing it so hard, but...why? Why not just let John go for the Austwins so Steve himself doesn't have to? 

 

Steve also tried to talk him down from gunning for Vanessa, but I don't think it worked. He wants her as a bigger target in from of them, but John doesn't care about any of that Steve strategy nonsense and just wants her out.

Vanessa and Steve had a super awkward conversation. Vanessa pressed him for information, Steve not so smoothly avoided the pointed questions, and Vanessa not so subtly suggested that Austwins are better as pawns against "the other side". He's on to Vanessa, and Vanessa is so on to him, but it's definitely too late for her.

Edited August 18, 2015 by mooses

[Nashville]

No they didn't.

Season 15 DE: Candice/Judd. Candice was the first member of the jury.

Season 16 DE: Jocasta/Hayden. Jocasta was the first member of the jury.

 

Wow - my memory is really starting to go.  Thanks for the correction.

 

I just don't get how no one is targeting the AusTwins. If I were Julia or Steve/John I would weaponize Vanessa. Tell her what Austin (in the case of Julia) or AusTwins (in the case of Steve/John) have been saying and get her to go after them.

Do I think Vanessa is a serious threat in this game, yes I do. But I think the AusTwins are a bigger problem. I think all of this Vanessa hatred and obsession everyone seems to have needs to go by the wayside and they need to get preferably Liz out next or at least Austin.

 

With the exception of last season, that's my usual clarion call: Less emotion, more strategy!

[pennben]

So, I check in on the feeds, options are: (i) Liz/Austin drapped over each other on hammock or (ii) Becky/Julia/Steve talking about prior HGs having sex on the feeds.  Looks at calendar, it's only Monday night.  Sigh.

 

ETA:  John/Steve are finalizing their plan to align with Austwins; apparently James/Meg have already decided they like their final five with Austwins.  Everyone is quite pleased with their plans of taking out Vanessa next week and waiting for someone else to target Austin or Liz or Julia.  Every freaking person thinks they are in an alliance with those three!!!  Who is this mythical house guest that will target one of them??!!

 

I think Austin has done well the last couple of weeks building bridges to everyone, much more so than Liz/Julia.

 

I think I'm now leaning towards a Vanessa HOH next week just to freaking wake people up!

Edited August 18, 2015 by pennben

[Sara2009]

Would Vanessa actually go after the Austwins? Or would she just nominate some combination of James, Meg, and John?

[pennben]

I don't think she would go after Austin/Liz/Julia directly, but since everyone plans on her being the target next week, having her be completely safe could shake things up the most, I think.

[loki567]

I'm just hoping that Austin or Julia don't win the next HoH. I think if somebody outside those two win, there will be more discussion between James/Meg/Steve/John/Vanessa as people try to avoid the block. 

[blixie]

 

If I were Julia or Steve/John I would weaponize Vanessa.

 

Oh ho ho, Vanessa is the ONE person who is in the house who knows what needs to be done, but kind of can't do it, that's why it's HER that needs to clue by four the rest of them, but in a non crazy non obvious way that won't come back to her. I want her to go full Morpheus on their asses: WHAT IF I TOLD YOU.......There was two person BLOOD alliance (with a loyal buttboy third) in this house and NO ONE broke it up until it was too fucking late? WHAT IF I TOLD YOU...that unless it happens next week they will have the mathematical advantage on every single group in this house right to the end? WHAT IF TOLD you they have final five deals with you James/Meg/ And also YOU Steve/John? What if I told you this made you morons of the third kind?!

 

This doesn't mean I wouldn't love to see V suck it up, bite the bullet, turn the BLOOD faucet on and just do the damn deed if she gets HoH. 

Edited August 18, 2015 by blixie

[TimWil]

I hate to be indelicate but is it true that Austin fingerbanged Liz last night? He apparently did it under the covers for a few minutes, she got up, said she was hungry and walked away.

Edited August 18, 2015 by TimWil

[Nashville]

I dunno. Did you see Austin wash his hands and actually use soap? Such uncharacteristic behavior wouldst be the smoking gun thou seeks, methinks.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I hate to be indelicate but is it true that Austin fingerbanged Liz last night? 

 

I saw it live.

[njbarmaid]

I saw it live.

Looks like the "cuddle sesh" started around 2:30 and on and off for about an hour.

[Ceeg]

Ew.

 

LOL I wish Julia would find out, she might get on the Evict Austin train pretty quickly, after being angry about Liz having a hickey on live tv.