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Meredith Quill

By Meredith Quill
in Battlebots

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rmontro

rmontro

56 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

And, low and behold, when WD came to the final match, it started having problems.  Maybe had it had two hard fought fights earlier, it would have strengthened itself.  Maybe. Or real competition might have changed a lot of things. 

That's a pretty cynical view.  I'm not saying you're wrong though.  When they had Witch Doctor fight Rusty, I almost burst out laughing.  I'm not sure why the powers that be would push WD though, they seem so hated here on the forum.

Anyway, fun season.  And now I have two more hours freed up until next season.   

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MagicCat
MagicCat

Jake Ewart:  "driving in circles isn't aggression" Me:  Planting your ass in the middle of the floor like a mushroom and spinning around isn't aggression either.  

Colorado David
Colorado David

I think they need to change the rules - if you get stuck, that's part of learning to navigate the field. If your opponent is smart enough to drive your spinner into the sides and get you stuck, bravo

lynxfx
lynxfx

I didn't get it their first season either but now it actually makes sense. With spinners your biggest weakness is to have your weapon stopped. A lot of times this happens when both bots end up entangl

libgirl2

libgirl2

(edited)

The Hydra/Tantrum match was close. I did think Hydra won it but Tantrum didn't sustain any damage. Though with that logic, the old Duck should have won several battles.

Witch Doctor/Minotaur was a farce. WD was pretty much given a free ride this season. What other Bot had TWO people come out to pry it loose? Why didn't they do that for Blip? I know Minotaur was in bad shape, but I think at that point, it should have gone to the judges if both bots were incapacitated. You don't stop the battle! What is next, when a Bot is tossed out of the arena, they are going to come out and help it back in? 

TPTB really seemed to want WD to win, maybe somehow they hoped that it would have a better chance against Tantrum as opposed to Hydra? Discovery channel drama? 

Anyway, congratulations to Tantrum. I never liked WD and was glad to see it go down. 

Edited by libgirl2
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Totale

Totale

11 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Massive favoritism tonight. 

Absolutely.  Get caught on the screws, get counted out.  Be a "fan" (producer) favorite and stick yourself under the riser, stop the fight and reset.  Kenny or Chris said something about "by the rules" and my wife said "What Rules?". 

As soon as Faruq said "split decision" after Hydra/Tantrum I said "Watch - Judge Lisa always gets it wrong".  And once again she did.  She had Hydra on points for aggression when it doesn't do anything aggressive.  It sits there and evades waiting for its next chance to flip, which is all it does.

At least the Tantrum team didn't sit there like whiny little bitches saying "Are they counting him out yet?" while WD struggled.  They continued the fight.

 

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libgirl2

libgirl2

49 minutes ago, MagicCat said:

Jake Ewart:  "driving in circles isn't aggression"

Me:  Planting your ass in the middle of the floor like a mushroom and spinning around isn't aggression either.

 

Driving in circles is trying to find a way to hit without going head on into that weapon. I totally understood what Tantrum was trying to do. 

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MagicCat

MagicCat

3 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Driving in circles is trying to find a way to hit without going head on into that weapon. I totally understood what Tantrum was trying to do. 

Yeah, I did too.  Seems like Jake is the only one that doesn't get it.  He seems to expect everyone to drive right into his flipper while his bot sits there in one fixed position or they aren't being "aggressive" 

 

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Colorado David

Colorado David

I think they need to change the rules - if you get stuck, that's part of learning to navigate the field. If your opponent is smart enough to drive your spinner into the sides and get you stuck, bravo them. It just like when forks get stuck in the floor/vents - they don't unstick them, why change the rules for a spinner?  Make them design the spinner so the direction can be reversed remotely and make them unstick themselves from the walls. It'd make them better tactical drivers for sure. 

I don't get the design of the punching spinner - don't you lose some kinetic spin if the spinner is pushed forward into something? Unless it's punching forward with enough energy to punch THRU, but it doesn't look like eyeballing it that it is going forward all that fast in the punch.  With the puncher in the back position, it's basically worthless except as as armor. 

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lynxfx

lynxfx

2 hours ago, Colorado David said:

don't get the design of the punching spinner - don't you lose some kinetic spin if the spinner is pushed forward into something? Unless it's punching forward with enough energy to punch THRU, but it doesn't look like eyeballing it that it is going forward all that fast in the punch.  With the puncher in the back position, it's basically worthless except as as armor. 

I didn't get it their first season either but now it actually makes sense. With spinners your biggest weakness is to have your weapon stopped. A lot of times this happens when both bots end up entangled or pushing each other. With tantrums design they can be stuck on another bot and retract the weapon to safety to allow it to spin up again then re-engage with a punch. Other bots need to separate and drive around to get time to spin back up. So the punch mechanism isn't really a factor in causing more damage, it mostly protects the weapon allowing it to still be effective. 

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Colorado David

Colorado David

(edited)
1 hour ago, lynxfx said:

I didn't get it their first season either but now it actually makes sense. With spinners your biggest weakness is to have your weapon stopped. A lot of times this happens when both bots end up entangled or pushing each other. With tantrums design they can be stuck on another bot and retract the weapon to safety to allow it to spin up again then re-engage with a punch. Other bots need to separate and drive around to get time to spin back up. So the punch mechanism isn't really a factor in causing more damage, it mostly protects the weapon allowing it to still be effective. 

OHH brilliant, I hadn't considered that. Well explained!

oh and people asking about the official rules, here we go:

https://battlebots.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/BattleBots-Design-Rules-Rev.2021.0.pdf

lol reading the rules, section 7, regarding flames weapons: The gas cannot be deliberately heated or cooled.  

DANGIT there goes the napalm design....

 

Edited by Colorado David
adding rules
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rmontro

rmontro

(edited)
18 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

What is next, when a Bot is tossed out of the arena, they are going to come out and help it back in? 

Only if that Bot is Witch Doctor, I'm guessing.

It did bug me that they came out to unstick WD, while it was clear that Minotaur was disabled.  I was thinking as soon as they unstick WD, they're going to have to start counting Minotaur out.  Which they did NOT do, I guess that's why.  But even though Daniel Freitas kept saying "I have complete control of my robot", yeah no you didn't.  

I never thought WD had any chance against Tantrum.

Edited by rmontro
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madmax

madmax

While out of all the bots that were left in the final 8, I'm glad Tantrum won, but damn, that was some messed up shit for those last few fights.

Why was Witch Doctor unstuck when other bots weren't?  There have been many, many times that a bot gets stuck and they lose the match.  Yes, Minotaur lost that wheel,  but by the standard rules they've used in the past, WD should have been counted out and Minotaur move on.  Then when they decided to ignore that rule, they figured, let's ignore another one and let Minotaur crab-walk around (hell, no, Daniel didn't have control of the bot) and not count it out.  What are the rules here?  Are they making them up  as they go along so they can get a fan favorite in the finals?

As much as I dislike Jake Ewert, I thought Hydra won that match.  

 

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Vermicious Knid

Vermicious Knid

Quote

Why was Witch Doctor unstuck when other bots weren't?  There have been many, many times that a bot gets stuck and they lose the match. 

That's what I thought had happened before. Witch Doctor should have been counted out at that point, not given another chance. Total bullshit they stopped the match and repositioned it.

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madmax

madmax

8 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

That's what I thought had happened before. Witch Doctor should have been counted out at that point, not given another chance. Total bullshit they stopped the match and repositioned it.

I think as others have pointed out, TPTB love Witch Doctor (as do others, if the audience is any indication) and they wanted them in the finals.  But it was bullshit.  They unstuck WD, but didn't unstick Blip, whose magnets had it hung up on the rail?

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rmontro

rmontro

6 hours ago, madmax said:

I think as others have pointed out, TPTB love Witch Doctor (as do others, if the audience is any indication) and they wanted them in the finals.

I don't understand why Witch Doctor is so popular, when everyone on this forum seems to hate them.  Maybe their live presentation is more impressive?  Maybe having a female captain has something to do with it?

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Ligeia

Ligeia

I just watched the last episode and can't believe what I just saw. That Minotaur vs Witch Doctor thing is absolutely outrageous. Why on earth was Witch Doctor unstuck ? They should have been counted out. I would have been as furious as Daniel Freitas if I had been cheated out of my win like that. Shame on the production for making this happen. And the way the Witch Doctor people acted was so entitled, jerkass and unfair.

Witch Doctor has always been favored with good matchups to secure their spot on the tournament, but this is taking it to a whole new level of shame.

I suspected at that point they REALLY wanted a female captain on the final, and then there's the Hydra vs Tantrum match... Hydra clearly won but we got another rigged judge decision. Tantrum got flipped plenty of times but some measly shots to Hydra were enough to turn the tables in their favor and secure a win ? Gimme a break. So here we are with a final with both teams having female captains. My BF was skeptical when I told him the bullshit was to promote female captains. And right then we had Chris Rose insisting on the final match having two female captains... my BF realized I was right.

The cherry on the cake was that miraculous and oh so progressive female vs female matchup was completely lame. But since neither of them earned their spot there I didn't care anymore who'd win at that point.

Seems like wokism has ruined yet another show. I'm a bit sad to be honest.

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lynxfx

lynxfx

Switching to another bot for a bit, I think Blip is one to watch next season. They just need to create a proper self righting mechanism. That chaotic self flipping hoping to land wheels down is what cost them the tournament. An arm similar to Tantrums would work perfectly and not interfere with their current design.

Speaking of Tantrums arm, I loved when they raised it after a knockout like raising your arms in victory. Little stuff like that really gives the bots character. 

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Ligeia

Ligeia

9 minutes ago, lynxfx said:

Switching to another bot for a bit, I think Blip is one to watch next season. They just need to create a proper self righting mechanism. That chaotic self flipping hoping to land wheels down is what cost them the tournament. An arm similar to Tantrums would work perfectly and not interfere with their current design.

Speaking of Tantrums arm, I loved when they raised it after a knockout like raising your arms in victory. Little stuff like that really gives the bots character. 

Blip is definitely a force to be reckoned with but Hydra had the upper hand in this fight anyway because it was lower than Blip. So I believe Blip would have lost the match anyway.

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proserpina65

proserpina65

On 4/7/2022 at 11:10 PM, rocketinu said:

Big time. Hydra was robbed.

Eh, Hydra did no damage to Tantrum whereas Tantrum actually damaged the tongue on Hydra's flipping arm.  All 3 judges gave the damage score to Tantrum.  And Tantrum was actually aggressive and kept attacking.  Hydra mostly just spun in circles.  Hell, half the time it wasn't even moving.  (I still think Black Dragon would've won its fight if it had hung back and made Hydra prove it had controlled movement.)  I'm fine with the decision.  It's not like Tantrum didn't destroy Witch Doctor in the final.

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proserpina65

proserpina65

On 4/8/2022 at 1:21 AM, rmontro said:

I'm not sure why the powers that be would push WD though, they seem so hated here on the forum.

They obviously are popular with the crowds at the competition.  This is just one forum.

On 4/8/2022 at 3:35 PM, Colorado David said:

OHH brilliant, I hadn't considered that. Well explained!

oh and people asking about the official rules, here we go:

https://battlebots.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/BattleBots-Design-Rules-Rev.2021.0.pdf

lol reading the rules, section 7, regarding flames weapons: The gas cannot be deliberately heated or cooled.  

DANGIT there goes the napalm design....

 

I skimmed some of the list but will read it more thoroughly later.  It's pretty interesting reading.

19 hours ago, Ligeia said:

Hydra clearly won but we got another rigged judge decision. Tantrum got flipped plenty of times but some measly shots to Hydra were enough to turn the tables in their favor and secure a win ?

Tantrum actually damaged Hydra.  Damage counts for a lot of points.  And 2 of the 3 judges scored Tantrum higher in aggression because Tantrum kept attacking.  Sitting in the middle of the arena spinning around and waiting for your opponent to drive onto your flipper IS NOT aggression, no matter what Jake Ewert thinks.

 

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rmontro

rmontro

8 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Eh, Hydra did no damage to Tantrum whereas Tantrum actually damaged the tongue on Hydra's flipping arm.  All 3 judges gave the damage score to Tantrum.

I can see that part, Hydra flipped Tantrum I don't now how many times, but Tantrum seems to be Duck levels of indestructible.  Well, the Duck from a few years back anyway.  Even so, I still felt like Hydra won.  But I guess I could see Tantrum winning on damage and aggression, so that's a good explanation.  

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Ligeia

Ligeia

22 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Eh, Hydra did no damage to Tantrum whereas Tantrum actually damaged the tongue on Hydra's flipping arm.  All 3 judges gave the damage score to Tantrum.  And Tantrum was actually aggressive and kept attacking.  Hydra mostly just spun in circles.  Hell, half the time it wasn't even moving.  (I still think Black Dragon would've won its fight if it had hung back and made Hydra prove it had controlled movement.)  I'm fine with the decision.  It's not like Tantrum didn't destroy Witch Doctor in the final.

Hydra flipped Tantrum tons of times and Tantrum just gave 2 or 3 shots that did not do much damage. Based on your logic I guess no flipper bot should ever win a judge decision.

proserpina65

proserpina65

6 hours ago, Ligeia said:

Hydra flipped Tantrum tons of times and Tantrum just gave 2 or 3 shots that did not do much damage. Based on your logic I guess no flipper bot should ever win a judge decision.

Tantrum damaged the tongue on Hydra's flipper.  The damage was clearly visible.  Plus, the JUDGES saw it and saw Hydra's lack of aggression and scored the fight based on that.

And no, that doesn't mean no flipper should ever win a judges' decision.  We've seen ones win, based on the damage they did and their aggression.  Because they actually caused damage to their opponents and actually went after their opponents rather than just sitting in the middle of the arena waiting for the other bots to come to them.  (Blip, for example, chased its opponents around the battlebox in every one of its fights.)

They showed the judges' scorecards for that fight.  Jason and Derek scored Tantrum higher on aggression, primarily because Tantrum was actually aggressive whereas Hydra was not.

2 hours ago, grommit2 said:

Wait!  The show is over?
No more smashing and bashing?
No more 250 pound machines getting tossed into the air?
No more flaming monsters chomping down on their metallic opponents?
Oh mannn...Now what do I do?
Ooh...I know...whatever happened to those demolition derbies?
Heyyyy...now there's an idea!  😜

Demolition derby night at my county's annual fair is always the most popular night.

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rmontro

rmontro

(edited)
On 4/12/2022 at 6:58 AM, Ligeia said:

Hydra flipped Tantrum tons of times and Tantrum just gave 2 or 3 shots that did not do much damage. Based on your logic I guess no flipper bot should ever win a judge decision.

Not at all.  Tantrum got flipped numerous times but did not appear to be damaged at all.  Tantrum is one tough bot.  A lot of times flipper bots will flip the other bot and damage it badly, knock it out, or flip it out of the arena.  That just wasn't the case here.  

Honestly, I thought Hydra should have won watching the show.  But based on how the competitions are scored, especially with damage and aggression, I've changed my mind.

Edited by rmontro
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Ilovepie

Ilovepie

On 4/16/2022 at 2:33 PM, rmontro said:

Honestly, I thought Hydra should have won watching the show.  But based on how the competitions are scored, especially with damage and aggression, I've changed my mind.

I totally agree - the flips look exciting, but they did exactly nothing to Tantrum. The footage of Blip flipping that bot over and over in practice shows that it is impervious to that. I am glad they showed the score cards though, because I totally thought Hydra won until I saw the reasoning. There should be some rule that you can't just sit there the whole match and wait for your opponent. I have to admit, as much as I loathe Jake E., seeing Hydra come back from 31st place was pretty amazing. I have never been a fan of that bot, but wow.

In fact, the entire tournament was pretty exciting with all of the upsets until this episode. Seeing Minotaur (my emotional favorite with all Daniel Freitas has been through this year) knock out End Game was spectacular. But that match with Minotaur and WD was crap. I totally agree WD should have been counted out. Total garbage decision. No other bots got a time out to be unstuck - why should they? If you're going to do that, let Minotaur go re-attach their wheel while your at it! Grrr..........I am glad Tantrum wiped the floor with them.

And shout out to Faruq and his rhymes. The Witch Doctor championship round one was perfection.

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enoughcats

enoughcats

4 hours ago, xfuse said:

Faruq and his rhymes.

When early on  Faruq would do a long and involved chatter, I decided that the long rhyme bot wasn't long for the competition, or they would have saved the rhyme for the final 16. Sometimes I was right.  Sometimes no rhyme was meaningless. 

I ended up feeling sorry for the editors having to make the same o, same o  come across as different, even when it wasn't.

Ilovepie

Ilovepie

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

That was probably the best introduction I've ever heard him do.  Well, that and the one for End Game's first match this season which contained tons of Lord of the Rings references.

Yes! I remember that one! I thought he did a great job this season. I know someone else is writing these, but they would not be the same without his delivery.

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enoughcats

enoughcats

How can I say this without coming across as a fanatic?  Hell, just go with it.  That was the best two hours of robot fighting I've ever seen.  How many have I seen, I go back to when the show was on Comedy Central, when there were different size categories, and when the websites about Battlebots were open to the public and participants were sharing info about which portable drills were about to be discontinued and should be bought for the strength of their motors.  That long ago.

I didn't expect much of tonight, The first 'battle' was Duck, and although tossed around, Duck never lost his quacker (still painted orange) and never lost his integrity, but lost the match. A couple more matches happened.  Ho, hum. 

Then all hell broke loose. As one bot stepped up and really disemboweled the opposition.  Such carnage sometimes happened once a season, it happened three times a night, tonight.

It was so fine that those three matches called out to me to replay them, four times each.  

Bots can fly.

Bots can fly repeatedly.

Bots can come apart with a large amount of kinetic energy still in them as the individual parts fly around the stage.

Recommendation: chill for the first fights and look closely at the four winners.  Three of them are about to have their worst ever nightmares come to life. 

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