Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers: Lalalalala! I can't hear you!

[Serena]

My speculation is that, since we didn't see Robin or Granny or a couple of the Dwarves, they're either dead or stuck in Camelot.  Or statues.

I just rewatched the last scene, and Robin is indeed there in the background. They just didn't focus on him.

[Mari]

Plus, there are living quarters above the restaurant, so any characters not in the scene could be explained away by being upstairs.

[Camera One]

Plus, there are living quarters above the restaurant, so any characters not in the scene could be explained away by being upstairs.

 

Cue August, King George and Lily  coming down the stairs in Camelot and saying they were just upstairs all along.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

I did a fast forward rewatch of the episode. On the second go, I found Merida totally pointless. She was alright, but not impressive. She seems rather rash, and I couldn't care less about her clan issues!

Why introduce her in an arc that involves Arthurian mythology? Maybe they want to parallel Merida's mommy issues with Emma's. But they could do that in a million other ways. Her quest to find her brothers seems another go-around of Elsa's quest to find Anna (or Waaaalt, or Aaron). I'm trying to figure out how she's going to fit in. Any thoughts?

Edited September 29, 2015 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe they want to parallel Merida's mommy issues with Emma's.

 

That's the only thing I can think.

 

I'm really, really hoping that 5B will have no one new in it. Deal with the fallout of all of this, set up the bad guy for next season.

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm gonna guess that Shadey McShadester (Arthur, until/if he proves himself not shady) has Merida's brothers locked up in the Camelot dungeon.

[Camera One]

Maybe they want to parallel Merida's mommy issues with Emma's.

 

But they don't care about Emma's Mommy issues.

[Mari]

That depends.

 

Can they use Emma's mommy issues to make Emma or Snow look bad and/or making Regina look better in the process?  Because if so, they'd totally examine Emma's mommy issues.

[KingOfHearts]

With Hook being Zelena and Robin's child, I think that might actually be a good cop-out for the backstory on Hook's parents. Crazy family tree antics aren't exactly unheard of on this show. They've done more disturbing situations with it. (Pan the Man-child, Cora/Leopold) Honestly, the only way I could tolerate this Outlaw Green baby storyline is if the child is something special or different. If it's just a random angst machine, I couldn't care less. There is a lot of potential drama (and humor) that could be drawn out of Hook being the spawn of the Love Triangle of Doom*. If you thought Emma and her parents were awkward... try the fact Zelena almost drowned her own son.

 

What if Roland was Liam? He could have changed his name to hide the fact he was from the future.

 

* Yes I know they're not a "love triangle" any more. But I still call it that.

Edited September 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

I was thinking today about the way to get a fun and epic 100th episode for this show while it's mired in the Dark Swan arc and its fallout. What if they did an It's a Wonderful Life type story for the spring premiere? Say Dark Emma is no longer the Dark One, but is wracked with guilt, anger, pain, horror and depression over the whole Dark Swan stuff. You bring in a story about how everyone would be screwed if Emma had never been born. They could incorporate a ton of side characters bringing back people we haven't seen in forever, tell an interesting story and still not skip over the emotional issues that come from being the Dark One. Then they could do a time jump so Emma's in a slightly better place emotionally and have Zelena's magical fetus ready to be born and wreak havoc on the world Damien style.

[Camera One]

They might do that, except it's how everyone would have been screwed if Regina never became The Evil Queen.

[Mari]

^^^

Oh, no:

• Snow ended up married to James, who cheated on her.  Snow became vengeful and vicious.
• Belle fell from a pile of books, and is in a permanent coma.  
• David went to the Frozen wedding, and sank with a ship.
• Hook managed to kill Rumple,but killed himself in the process.
• Neal married Tamara, who sold him out to Pan.
• Red got careless, transformed, and killed the nearby villagers.

and on, and on, and on . . .

[KAOS Agent]

 

They might do that, except it's how everyone would have been screwed if Regina never became The Evil Queen.

 

No, that scenario would play like what happens when you play a country song backwards. You know, you get your horse back, you get your house back, you get your best friend, Graham back. You get your wife back, you get your dad back, you get your lost heart back.

[Camera One]

I'm totally unspoiled but just saw the title of the thread for Episode 2.  Are you kidding me?  My eyes can't roll far enough.

[KAOS Agent]

The spoiler thread is a very scary place these days. Consider yourself very lucky. 

 

Does anyone have any thoughts as to what Emma's goal is? Besides punishing those who hurt her that is. There's got to be more to what she's doing than that.

Edited October 2, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Rumsy4]

Does anyone have any thoughts as to what Emma's goal is? Besides punishing those who hurt her that is. There's got to be more to what she's doing than that.

 

I agree.I have a feeling she's manipulating all for some objective that goes beyond "punishing" them. I think there's a shadowy threat lurking at the background that only Emma knows about. I do think she still wants to protect her peeps and the rest of Sb, but at the same time, she doesn't want to do the "saving" herself.  

 

Talking about punishments, what is Emma planning to do to enact these punishments apart from freezing them out, that it? Will she babynap her little brother and threaten to harm him unless Snowing change his name to something reasonable? Will she make Regina write "I will not whine and bitch about my life" a 1000 times? 

[Dianthus]

Isn't it her goal to defeat the Darkness once and for all? Weirdly, I can still see this even tho' she is the DO.

[Camera One]

Emma better successfully eliminate the Dark One once and for all.  If we still have a Dark One after this, 5B would be the equivalent running the hamster wheel.  

 

Though knowing this show, the Wise Sage Merlin will teach us that we need a balance of light and dark in our world because that's what makes us human.

[Dianthus]

It's like they're all saying: Tah-Dah! and we're all saying "Tah-Duh! Morans."

[Souris]

So Emilie is pregnant. With Zelena's baby already plotted, I tend to think they won't write in a RB baby. That would be a lot of baby. They can just have Belle stand behind the shop counter a lot. Or sleep more. And it's not like she's on a lot anyway.

[KingOfHearts]

 

So Emilie is pregnant. With Zelena's baby already plotted, I tend to think they won't write in a RB baby.

It wouldn't work unless, A. Belle has been totally ignoring or hiding all pregnancy signs for the past eight weeks, B. it's a Scarlet Queen baby, or C. Rumple magically conceived a baby in her to thrust them together.

 

 

So Emilie is pregnant. With Zelena's baby already plotted, I tend to think they won't write in a RB baby.

I wish they did the same for Snow. At this point Snowflake doesn't add anything to the story at all.

Edited October 3, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

It depends on what the actress wants, I guess.  If she wants a full maternity leave, they could temporarily kill off Belle, and provide a reason for Rumple to turn evil again.  *groan*

[Souris]

It wouldn't work unless, A. Belle has been totally ignoring or hiding all pregnancy signs for the past eight weeks, B. it's a Scarlet Queen baby, or C. Rumple magically conceived a baby in her to thrust them together.

 

Please never use the words "Rumple," "conceived" and "thrust" together in a sentence ever again. Thanks! ;)

[RadioGirl27]

It depends on what the actress wants, I guess.  If she wants a full maternity leave, they could temporarily kill off Belle, and provide a reason for Rumple to turn evil again.  *groan*

If I have to choose I prefer Belle dies/leaves/deseappears and Rumple goes full evil than Rumple is rewarded with a new son.

[legaleagle53]

Please never use the words "Rumple," "conceived" and "thrust" together in a sentence ever again. Thanks! ;)

 

Still haven't gotten over the trauma of seeing him and Belle "making tacos" in bed, have you?  ;-)

[Mari]

Robert Carlyle is an attractive man.

 

Rumple's . . . not.  There's an ewww factor.

 

I honestly think it's going to depend on what their plans were for Belle in 5B, and how pregnant Ms. De Ravin is.   There's almost nothing she did in 4A that she couldn't do while still very, very pregnant.  

 

However, chances are pretty good she's due by at least April or May;  it's pretty common to wait until the end of the first trimester to announce.  Not that she's tied to that, so who knows, but still . . .

 

Edited because due and do are homophones, not synonyms.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Mari

[Joanh23]

yeah I'm really hoping they're not going to write her pregnancy into the show - I was never a Rumbelle fan anyway, and now after S4 I really don't care.  It'll definitely be interesting to see how they decide to play it.

[Curio]

It wouldn't work unless, A. Belle has been totally ignoring or hiding all pregnancy signs for the past eight weeks, B. it's a Scarlet Queen baby, or C. Rumple magically conceived a baby in her to thrust them together.

 

You're forgetting D. A very pregnant Zelena is about to die, and in order to save the baby, Zelena magically transfers her baby into Belle, and then surrogate mother Belle gives birth to Zelena and Robin's child.

 

Don't even tell me this should wouldn't go there, because they would.

[Rumsy4]

Omg Nooooooo!

[KAOS Agent]

Or Regina takes Zelena's baby, so Zelena kidnaps Belle to get the baby and runs off to Oz with her. Baby is a child of the Darkness. Cue #SaveBabyStiltskin2016

Edited October 4, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Guest]

Given that the base of Excalibur seems to be light and the tip is darkness, despite what the Dark One said at the end of the episode, I think reuniting the sword creates balance and there is as good a chance that it will break the Dark One curse in Emma opposed to breaking ties to the people she loves and making her fully Dark.

 

I think the are going for restoring the potential to go either way that Snow took away with the egg thing.

[OnceUponAJen]

So does anyone still think Emma is faking the darkness, because I don't.

[PixiePaws1]

So does anyone still think Emma is faking the darkness, because I don't.

No...I don't think she is. She may not have been the one to have taken their memories (do we know who sent the Furie - I believe Emma didn't and I think whoever did took the memories) but I do think she was able to protect herself from it and has used it for her own purposes. Emma.might even have tricked someone into casting the memory curse for her so she didn't have to pay any price for it.

I like the suspense...much better handling of a Whodunit than the attempt with 3b.

[pezgirl7]

I thought it was interesting when Hook asked Emma to tell him what happened in Camelot, Emma seemed sad and said she wished she could. Makes me think there is another more powerful force in play, probably Merlin.

[retrograde]

I don't think Emma is faking the darkness, but I agree with pezgirl7 that there is something bigger at play. 

[KAOS Agent]

First rule of curse casting: We don't talk about curse casting.

[HoodlumSheep]

hopefully they don't mess up the "who dunnit" thing by the end of this arc, because I agree that they seem to be handling this better than 3b so far.

I don't think anyone sent the fury. I think it's something that happens naturally when someone doesn't pay the price (just like the banshee in "Darby o'gill and the little people") And let me be specific; a big price like a life for a life, because let's face it, they pick and choose what actually has a price on this show.

I do think it was one of the camelot characters who cast the memory curse and Emma somehow avoided it.

[OnceUponAJen]

Perhaps someone forbade Emma from telling the others the truth, while in possession of the dagger? And then cast the memory curse?

[PixiePaws1]

Ahhh...I was wondering what the price was....that makes sense!! Thanks for solving that mystery :o)

[LizaD]

I don't think Emma is faking it and the "mystery" of why she turned dark is pretty obvious and now answered. She kept having to save their asses in Camelot and using dark magic to do so and it eventually added up. That's why in Storybrooke she's now off on vacation from saving duty and blamed them for it. I'm going to guess that each episode will now put one of them in peril forcing her to save them and puts her one step closer to full darkdom. Which kind of sucks narrative wise because it is redundant. She took on the DO initially to save them and she ended up embracing it because she was saving them again?

I still say the original dark goo was Merlin's. He was probably trying to do good but ended up breaking some law that turned it into dark magic and voila we have the show. In the various legends Merlin was resigned to what his visions told him of the future but I don't think this one will. He was probably trying to change the future that screwed up everything.

[PixiePaws1]

All this build up with Regina being the Savior....too much signposting even for these writers?

Maybe they'll surprise us ...ooh look Flying Pig..!

TBH if they pull a 'bait and switch' like they did 3b where the build up was for Emma to save the day then gave it to the whinge-fest that is Regina. ..then I'm hoping Emma saves herself or Killian does after proving he has resisted returning to the darkness and has the right to wield the remade sword.

Ok..Emma is not going 'poof' like Kay (or end of story) but since Merlin..or someone pretending to be him...specifically said don't pull the sword..I'm guessing she does get it out.

Who else thinks figment Rumple has been lying to Emma from the get go?

Edited October 5, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[Souris]

DarkSwan seemingly was pushing Regina to be the Savior/hero. I would say she was trying to make Regina into the hero (gag) needed to pull the sword, but she didn't seem to know about the sword until afterward when Dark One Rumple told her about it. Though how did it get into her house's basement without her knowledge? That hurts my brain.

 

I imagine that when the blades are rejoined, there is as much possibility of the light destroying the darkness as vice versa.

 

The Guardians of the Galaxy hand-joining ripoff also seems like foreshadowing of my theory about everyone ultimately taking a bit of the darkness, thereby watering it down.

[KingOfHearts]

So now we know why Rumple was obsessed with making deals and the price of magic. It's all tied to the Dark One. I wonder if we'll see Emma being more upfront about it as we see her having to use it more. I thought it was a nice touch that her skin started turning Sparkly Imp after she healed Robin. My guess is that we'll see a more "crocodile-ish" form at the end of the Camelot flashbacks, with Storybrooke Emma taking on a cleaner appearance as she has been. If this is indeed a new curse (which I don't see how), then it would be built in anyway.

 

When the New Nevengers (we still need a name!) come back from Camelot in 5x01, there's a golden flash that's different from how the Dark Curse looked. It's the same effect used when people exit or enter the Sorcerer's Hat.

Edited October 5, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

So this year, the threat is people turning into Trees.  Merlin himself is trapped in a tree.  I'm going to wager Pocahontas will use her oneness with nature to free Merlin with the colors of the wind.

[retrograde]

Yeah I think Dopey turning into a tree definitely indicates Merlin is involved.

 

When the New Nevengers (we still need a name!) 

Knights of the Formica Table, in honor of them coming via Grannys.

Edited October 5, 2015 by retrograde

[Souris]

Yeah I think Dopey turning into a tree definitely indicates Merlin is involved.

 

For sure. The curse turns people into trees if they go past the town line, Merlin was trapped in a tree. I wonder if Merlin cast the curse? Or perhaps whoever trapped him in the tree cast the curse? Did he trap himself? 

[Guest]

First rule of curse casting: We don't talk about curse casting.

 

You may be on to something. We might need more rules to make the show easier to take.

 

Don't true love kiss and tell.

[Rumsy4]

I re-watched the episode, and am even more convinced that Emma did not curse the Nevengers+the people of Camelot to Storybrooke. I do think she wiped their memories though. I think Emma is keeping them from knowing about some other threat lurking in the background so they won't be able to defend themselves. That's her way of "punishing" them for whatever they did to her. I think it all hinges on Excalibur: a bunch of different people are probably looking to make the sword whole for their purposes. 

 

About Excalibur being in Emma's basement, it seemed as though she had no idea of it being there. I think Emma's missing a chunk of her Camelot memories as well, but not all of it. IMO, she is partly going by what Mindworm!Rumple is telling her happened back in Camelot.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Serena]

I re-watched the episode, and am even more convinced that Emma did not curse the Nevengers+the people of Camelot to Storybrooke. I do think she wiped their memories though. I think Emma is keeping them from knowing about some other threat lurking in the background so they won't be able to defend themselves. That's her way of "punishing" them for whatever they did to her. I think it all hinges on Excalibur: a bunch of different people are probably looking to make the sword whole for their purposes. 

Maybe there was a threat to Emma in Camelot that the Nevengers didn't tell her about to "protect" her, and of course all this secret keeping came back to bite Emma in the ass. So Emma is now giving them a taste of their own medicine?

[Rumsy4]

That could well be the case. And maybe Emma's "redemption" is simply her unable to stay away from protecting them from the threat when push comes to shove.

I wonder what it really means if Emma manages to reunite Excalibur and "snuff out" the Light. Does this mean the Darkness takes over completely, and Emma is no longer Emma? Why would Emma be okay with that? Will she still be controlled by the reunited Excalibur? Or will she be free from its control?

Edited October 6, 2015 by Rumsy4